Out of the Storm

Treatment & Self-Help => Treatment => Therapy => Topic started by: Kizzie on August 22, 2018, 10:49:42 PM

Title: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 22, 2018, 10:49:42 PM
And it went quite well thankfully.  I feel like we connected and that she understood what I want/need from therapy.  And surprise, surprise, she actually convinced me to give EMDR a try again!  She knows I am skeptical after having two bad reactions after sessions a few years back, but we talked about the success she has had with trauma survivors and I am game.  She has been using it for much longer than the other T and she does have her doctorate whereas the other T was a Masters level clinician with far less TI and experience.   

Very much looking forward to taming the narcissistic ghosts that came back to haunt me when DT got into power in the US.  They are taking up way too much real estate in my head, heart and body again and I am suffering.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Deep Blue on August 23, 2018, 12:33:05 AM
Sounds great Kizzie,
I wish there was more emdr qualified therapists in my area.  There is only 1.  Sending you some positive vibes as you enter this part of your journey.
:hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 23, 2018, 01:03:32 AM
 :hug: :cheer: So glad to hear it went very well. Let us all know how Emdr goes! I am hopeful it goes better this time for you
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: woodsgnome on August 23, 2018, 01:11:48 AM
Hope you can wade in and clear up some of the malaise going on inside.

Interestingly, I've held off of my t's long-ago suggestion that emdr might be an option but so far I've held back due to a not-so-hot experience with it when I was with another t. But, like you, I'm experiencing some significant relapses lately, so I'm giving it more consideration as this t is more experienced with it.

But I doubt we'd be starting for a couple months; there's a questionnaire/worksheet she uses as an adjunct and I'm still rather hesitant about it, but it's on the table anyway--at least I have a high trust level with this t.

I know there have been other mixed results reported on the forum, and if there are others perhaps people would like to share their take.

Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 23, 2018, 06:42:17 AM
I'll be sure and share how it goes given it didn't go well before and I am a bit skeptical. The point she made about it today that convinced me to give it a go is that if it is done properly it helps to transfer memories stuck in short term memory (which is what the brain tends to do with trauma when it overwhelms the person), to long term memory. In LTM way we experience our trauma from more of a distance and know it is in the past, but in STM it is fresh and as though we are back in it in the present. 

I am just so tired of not being able to get on top of being retriggered by DT that I am willing to give it a go. I hope  it might be an option for you WG, if it helps me it might help you from being retriggered too. 
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 23, 2018, 03:07:45 PM
As someone that has seen great success with Emdr I am truly hopeful you have a better experience this time. I imagine it is not for everyone, but done right I agree with your T.

Woodsgnome I would gladly share about my experience, although not on Kizzies thread as I don't want to hijack it.

Sending you both lots of  :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today
Post by: Kizzie on August 23, 2018, 05:10:16 PM
I'm OK with you (or anyone) posting about their experiences with EMDR here  :yes:   I'm going to change the title of the post though so the discussion about EMDR doesn't get lost. (If you start another thread Elph that's good too.)  Either way  is fine.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on August 23, 2018, 05:17:08 PM
Kizzie, I'm so happy for you that it went well!  :cheer: Finding the right form of therapy for a certain point in healing is sooo important.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 23, 2018, 06:12:28 PM
Thanks Kizzie, wanted to make sure it was okay to share that here. It is good for emdr to be talked about, as everyone has pointed out it has really mixed results.

In my experience it has been life changing. However, that was not always the case. When I first tried it, emdr left me drained and triggered all the time. We stopped doing in for quite a while and opted for other forms of trauma therapy. Eventually as I came back to emdr, I was super worried about it but it was a changed experience. I think a lot of it is the T needing to adapt it slightly to fit how CPTSD functions and how mentally ready you are for it. I was not at a stable enough point with my trauma initially so it got me outside my window of tolerance and wasn't safe. Now though I do it every week with some form of constant progress. I have many more skills to cope with it, and more emotional stability than I did when I tried it originally. I do also now have the ability to look at pieces of my trauma and not have all of it come rushing back in a wave, which is part of why I struggled at first. I couldn't keep anything separated if that makes sense.

Now that I can, emdr is a huge tool. It isn't the only tool me and my T utilize but it is something that has been huge for me. I feel like it has really helped to assist my healing in ways other methods haven't been able to. Definitely be careful with it, and go slow. I still try to go too quickly and then it can create issues.

I feel like that was just a long narrative, sorry. It has been a really positive experience for me this go around and I hope that is the case for you too. Just take it in small chunks and don't judge what comes up.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 23, 2018, 06:26:44 PM
QuoteI was not at a stable enough point with my trauma initially so it got me outside my window of tolerance and wasn't safe. Now though I do it every week with some form of constant progress. I have many more skills to cope with it, and more emotional stability than I did when I tried it originally. I do also now have the ability to look at pieces of my trauma and not have all of it come rushing back in a wave, which is part of why I struggled at first. I couldn't keep anything separated if that makes sense.

This is exactly what I think happened to me also Elph. I was in a really bad place, already quite overwhelmed, and did not have the capacity to look at any trauma.  I needed to stabilize and I think because the practitioner was new and inexperienced she did not recognize this.  All of the trauma came rushing to the surface and just knocked me flat. 

The T I am seeing is very experienced, plus I am in a much better place than 4 years ago and know more about my limits and window of tolerance. Also, I am more willing and able to speak up for myself if I need to so I am really hopeful it will work out this time. 

Glad to hear you find it so helpful  :yes:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 23, 2018, 07:00:01 PM
Hopefully you have the same kind of turn around. I was in that very overwhelmed space when I first tried it too. I am certain that four years has made a gigantic difference for you. I am very hopeful for you, and glad to hear your new T is really experienced. Sending all the luck your way  :hug: I am excited to hear how it goes.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 23, 2018, 08:13:21 PM
kizzie, i wish you all the best.  with the right t, i fully believe emdr can be life-changing.  always remember that you're in charge of your therapy, and to slow it down, explore what's going on any time you begin to feel overwhelmed.  and, stabilization as well as tools to provide yourself with stability between sessions is very important.

wg, could you take that questionnaire to a session, explore with your t about the issues/difficulties you're having with filling it out?  that might be helpful to you to have your t with you for support and processing what might be preventing you from getting it started.  just a thought.

i'm just so glad you've found a t who seems to be a good fit for you, kizzie.  this entire dt era is mind-bending and emotionally charged.  i do hope you get relief.   sending much love and a hug filled with positivity for your therapeutic experience.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 24, 2018, 06:28:29 PM
Tks San and Elph, I go on Sep 6th and am both excited it will go well (I really need to be able to view NPD behaviour like DTs from more of a distance), and nervous that it won't.  I am still concerned that I do not have specific or discrete  big "T" incidents per se, but instead have a long running history of accumulated, seemingly small "T" ones (death by a thousand cuts) inflicted by NPD family over the years.   I guess we'll see.  :Idunno: 

She did say we will work on safety and grounding and may not even do any EMDR until the third session.  That adds to my confidence as I did not do anything like that the first time.  :yes: 
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 24, 2018, 06:49:01 PM
Kizzie, it really surprises me you didn't do anything like that the first time. From my understanding (info from my T, and my own reading) anytime someone starts emdr it is customary to spend several sessions on coping and grounding skills. It should be common practice. Anyways I am really glad your T is doing that with you this time around  :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 24, 2018, 08:00:51 PM
sounds like your t is a bit more 'with it' when it comes to trauma processing.  glad to hear that.

as far as not having big T traumas, that's a lot of what c-ptsd is about.    hopefully she'll recognize that.  still, you don't have to push yourself to try to remember any if they're just not there.  rather, the concepts behind the '1000 cuts' can be processed, such as expectations, people pleasing, triggers, those 'looks' or voice tones - any of that stuff can be fodder for reprocessing in your mind/brain.

i hope it goes well for you, kizzie.  slowly but surely wins this race.  love and hugs, sweetie.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 28, 2018, 03:33:08 AM
Started a new form of emdr today that focuses on pre verbal and early trauma (eventually I need to compile the different types of emdr I have done into some sort of resource) . Even just laying the ground work brought up so much. Anyways having my session made me think of you, and I reread the thread and saw you don't start until the 6th but I wanted to send lots of good healing energy your way while I was thinking of it.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 28, 2018, 05:48:21 PM
Tks Elph   :)   I'm curious how you get at early/preverbal trauma in EMDR?  How do you feel it went?
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 28, 2018, 06:15:10 PM
I felt like it went really well. The first two sessions are groundwork stuff, the psychologist that made it termed it clearing effective circuits. Essentially that deals with the emotional circuits we have in our brain that have been proven to exist at birth. What we did was try to objectively picture what an emotion would look like. No judgement of what that was and to let that image process through until it stops changing/moving etc. It is supposed to be useful for any patient but especially with this because it helps get rid of some preconceived notions, and helps teach some separation.

This was really powerful for me. I wasn't sure what to think when it was describe to me but it was really intriguing, and surprising to see what came up. (I wrote in my new journal about it, if you are curious of more detail about some of that, not long but don't feel like retyping it here. it is the last post I made). I only did three of the 7 circuits because the first three tend to take the longest/are the hardest. They were shame,  rage, fear. I really struggled with rage because of my background so it is what I still kind of sorting through today.

After the ground work the emdr is made to try to discern the earliest memory of a particular feeling, and processing what comes up with that. Be it a realization that I was unwanted as a new born, or that as a toddler I was not having my needs met etc. The idea is to work from preconception (which ends up being about what we know of before we were born, I know a lot of mine which is not always the case)  to about 3 or 4 years old. I am curious about how that will go but it is apparently intended to help early attachment traumas by recognizing needs and feelings we had but didn't have words to express.

My early history is not as cluttered as my history from age five but it is still covered in violence, chaos, and anger. Lots of attachment trauma certainly.. so it sounds like something that will be helpful but it is certainly different because it isn't as specific memory focused like classic emdr.

If you are curious, it was developed by Sarah Paulsen, her book "When there are no words" is what I am working through with my T of course.

Oh another side note, when you talk with your new T see if she knows anything about the Flash method. It is really wonderful as well. Helped me get to a point where I could more readily handle classic emdr on a few things. Sorry that was lengthy, there is a lot jam packed in all the healing stuff I have been doing this year and there is only getting to be more. I start an experiential group in like a week and a half (eepp)
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Luke57 on August 28, 2018, 07:09:51 PM
Hello everybody,

My thanks go to Kizzie for starting this thread and everyone else who has shared their experiences with EMDR. I'm seeing a new T on the 29th who specializes in EMDR. We have only spoken on the phone once, but after hearing my history and symptoms, she thought that EMDR would be helpful. She said our first session would just be me answering questions for her. So I expect it'll be awhile before we actually get into it.

I started T for the first time 15 years ago. It ended up being very helpful for me, but for the first couple of years I was overwhelmed with nightmares, out-of-body experiences and vivid flashbacks of my abuse. So I'm going in to this with a lot fear, wondering if this new form of T will bring up even more junk. I'm trying to go in with positive thoughts and a "no pain, no gain" outlook. I appreciate the wisdom given here about taking it slow. Now, that's going to be one of the first things I talk to my T about. If anyone has anymore advice or feedback I would love to hear it.


I only just joined this forum a few weeks ago. Now, I'm especially glad I did. I'm sure I'll need all the help and support I can get. And I'll be looking forward to hearing of your experiences, Kizzie. Good luck to you and everyone on their journeys. :grouphug:

Luke
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 28, 2018, 07:39:25 PM
Hi Luke57,

I really hope that your emdr with the new therapist goes well! It seems pretty standard it might take a while to get into. In my experience, that initial reaction of nightmares, flashbacks, etc isn't as major when going back to therapy. The T should also go through a lot of grounding exercises and coping skills before ever starting EMDR to ensure that you don't have a spike in those sort of symptoms. Mine spiked some but once I was fully prepared they were still manageable for me. The "no pain, no gain" is an okay phrase because this junk does hurt but it should not consistently take you out of your window of tolerance, if that makes sense. Definitely make sure you understand the window of tolerance and if you feel like you aren't in it say something. That is something my T has come to be able to read in me when I get too worked up but it takes a while to build that kind of familiarity. It is okay to speak up and say hey I need to stop for a moment etc.

My biggest word of insight (other than go slow) is don't judge what comes up. It is hard to not judge it or want to change it but when your T says to let it come and observe it without judgement (they will say something of the sort) take it to heart.

I am really glad you found this forum, it is such a supportive group of people. I really hope you EMDR goes well. Let us know  :grouphug:

Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Luke57 on August 29, 2018, 04:08:36 AM
Hi Elphanigh,

Thank you for your response and the wise words of advice. I'm sure I'll benefit from your experience. The "window of tolerance" thing will be important for me to keep in mind. I often feel like I need to push through any and all pain to just keep moving. That's a very unhealthy way of thinking I began using when I was an adolescent - sometimes those old habits are hard to drop. I'm sure it helped me to survive then, but I don't need it anymore.


I'll keep all of your advice in mind as I move forward. Thanks again.


Luke
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 29, 2018, 12:24:37 PM
Luke57,

I did the same thing for a long time. It is a great survival tool, but not great for living a life in my experience. I am sure with time it will become easier not to default to that particular survival instinct
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 29, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
Hey Elph - thanks for all the great info  :hug:  Good suggestion re respecting my window of tolerance, I'm certain that will be key given what I went through before.   :thumbup:

I really do think we need therapeutic strategies that get more of the brain working on processing and managing trauma so I am hopeful about EMDR. And if it can get to the preverbal stuff so much the better as I came out of the gate into an NPD family. 

I did undergo neurofeedback 2 yrs ago and found it did a lot for me in terms of gaining some distance from and being more comfortable with a lot of my trauma, until I was back facing Trump's malignant NPD behaviour on a daily basis that is. I suspect I would be worse off if I hadn't had the NF. Unfortunately we moved to a more rural location and there's isn't anyone who does NF or I would have carried on with that. The new T I'm seeing told she is only one of three psychologists in this area who does EMDR and she is 45 minutes away.  The other two are 1-1/2 hours from where I live.  Anyway, our discussion about EMDR resonated with me because it does work on a neurological level and she does have lots of experience with trauma.  We're going to spend most of the first session on Sep 6th working on grounding and coping so that right there was a confidence booster.   

Luke - hope your session today went well.   :yes:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 29, 2018, 06:46:53 PM
Hi Kizzie, I am glad the info was helpful. Sometimes I question my ability to do that especially as I tend to ramble or over explain. I am really hopeful for you with the emdr. I have never done neurofeedback before but have heard a lot about it.  Sorry it is such a long drive to get to your T but I appluad you for still doing so  :cheer:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Luke57 on August 30, 2018, 10:13:01 PM
Hi Kizzie,

My first session with new T went well. She seems like a very understanding and empathetic person. ( Which is what I need rather than somebody that's cold and distant,) She said the next 4-5 weeks would be her getting to know me, This week I'm supposed to write down my earliest memories of abuse. So here we go!


Looking forward to hearing about your session on the 6th.


Luke
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 31, 2018, 04:01:49 PM
congrats to all you courageous people.  i admire your willingness to push forward with this.  i think it's wonderful.

one note re: 'no pain, no gain'.  as el mentioned, some of this stuff does hurt, is painful.  however, there's a big difference between feeling hurt and feeling damaged.  no damage should ever be present.  that's why the window of tolerance is so important, as well as the grounding, stabilizing, and coping skills that need to be learned and practiced before getting into the actual eye movement phase of emdr.

the flash method el mentioned is fairly new, but from what i've heard/read about, it's a very good tool for allowing a person to be able to tolerate memories/sensations because it helps them (the m/s) begin to become neutralized before having to remember in any sort of detail.   thus, pain is reduced as well as the actual impact of the m/s on our psyches.  (please correct me if i'm wrong, el).

and, yes, kizzie, emdr works with the brain, the neural connections that have held the memories/sensations which impact and trigger us to such a horrid extent.   i've even used it for physical stuff, like chronic pain (pain messages have their origin in the brain).   remember, you are always the boss of your sessions, while your t is a guide for you to utilize.  the focus should always be on you, what's best for you, and how to help you move forward to your goals.

my best to all of you going thru this.      :grouphug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 31, 2018, 04:29:53 PM
Thank you dear San  :hug: It is good to hear some of my thoughts echoed.  You explained the flash method really well. Better than I could have phrased it. 

Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on August 31, 2018, 05:10:24 PM
Luke - That's great to hear   :thumbup:   I like that she's spending time getting to know you rather than diving right in. The first time I went to EMDR there was very little of that, we just jumped in  :aaauuugh:  That's one of the things that made me more willing to try it with this new T, we spent the hour (plus 20 minutes actually) getting to know each other.  She told me about herself and not just the good stuff and that was just such a lovely invitation for me to be my authentic self.  She was also really adept at zeroing in on issues and asking relevant questions which told me she was really listening, reflecting critically and using her experience and training. All good!   

San - Tks again for the info, reassurance and guidance, it does help with the nervous part.  :yes: 
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on August 31, 2018, 05:23:24 PM
Kizzie, that sounds so much like my current T. I have so much hope for this new T of yours. I will be thinking of you on the 6th  :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on September 07, 2018, 07:54:10 AM
So I had my second session with my new T today and it went quite well.  I feel quite comfortable with her and confident that she's experienced, knowledgeable and caring. 

Today we didn't get into any actual EMDR but zeroed in on memories that represent the core beliefs I am struggling with. We started off talking about Trump and why I am struggling with his NPD so much, moved onto how my family's NPD affected me, and in the course of that came up with a number of traumatic memories to focus on in the EMDR sessions. 

We discovered that younger me is still very angry (or perhaps angry all over again  :Idunno:) about how my parents and B devalued, discounted, manipulated & silenced me. The core belief I developed because of their behaviour is that I don't matter.  Understandably that makes younger me angry, but underneath is a lot of hurt, pain, hopelessness and powerlessness.  Being exposed to Trump on a daily basis reignited all of this.   

Anyway, it all resonated so I am actually looking forward to seeing if EMDR can help me to shift that belief.  I see her again in two weeks.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on September 07, 2018, 12:04:11 PM
Sorry, I'd forgotten yesterday was the big therapy day. It's great that you have confidence in your new T in ways that are important to you.

It sounds to me as if you accomplished tons in that one session and as if you're able to tap a whole slew of basic memories and realisations and then write coherently about them (!) without going off the deep end. It's something I can't do so that's why it jumps off the screen at me.

:hug: :hug: to younger you with all that pain, hopelessness, powerlessness and to present day you if you're feeling those emotions too. I note there's anger too. Good for younger Kizzie. Anger gives energy to set limits and heal. I'm sure you know that Kizzie, but I just want to validate the anger, not just the pain.

Looking forward to seeing how you grow and change with this T, Kizzie!  :)
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on September 07, 2018, 04:10:51 PM
Tks BB  :hug: 

Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on September 07, 2018, 05:25:24 PM
That is amazing Kizzie  :hug: I think Blueberry phrased all of that perfectly. I am really excited for you as well
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: woodsgnome on September 07, 2018, 06:18:08 PM
So far, so good; and thanks for sharing. Sounds too, like this T isn't making the most common mistake I often hear of (especially regarding complex ptsd), which is rushing into the process without fully working it out with you before getting into crunch time.

I hope this can continue as you seek to once again land on solid ground.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Three Roses on September 07, 2018, 06:52:56 PM
 :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on September 08, 2018, 12:43:16 PM
Quote from: woodsgnome on September 07, 2018, 06:18:08 PM
Sounds too, like this T isn't making the most common mistake I often hear of (especially regarding complex ptsd), which is rushing into the process without fully working it out with you before getting into crunch time.

:yeahthat:  a very common mistake ime too. I was told trauma-informed Ts don't do that, except the first ones I tried all did, thinking breaking down my defenses was essential to healing.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on September 09, 2018, 06:09:56 PM
Tks everyone, I am a little nervous still to try the actual EMDR but hopeful too.

My T  is definitely working with me WG, and that right there is big for me in terms of trust and confidence.  Through her probing thus far I can see that I have made a lot of progress as I did not feel the welling up of tears and deep aching in my heart that I used to when talking about my trauma. That tells me younger me is tired of being angry and hurt and wants to do something about all that.  I used to feel her recoil, kick up a fuss and then run deep to hide when anyone including T's would get too close. I know she's anxious but seems to trust adult me (and the T), so very glad I did all that Inner Child work prior to this.  Hopefully this will get us unstuck from DT's daily triggering  :yes:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Luke57 on September 09, 2018, 10:27:00 PM
DT is a narcissistic idiot who is triggering people all over the world. So you know you're not alone, Kizzie. That's what N do best, (or about all they do well), is make others miserable while making themselves look like fools. That's my opinion.

I once had a N M who tormented me for years until I went NC. That's kind of how I deal with DT ... I try not to pay any attention to his silly rantings and ravings. His time will be up soon. The Universe has survived a lot of other power hungry N and it will survive this one, too.

Having said that, I'm sorry you're being triggered by all that nonsense. I can feel you and I'm right there with you. The important thing is the work you're doing to heal you and your younger self. Sounds like you're making a lot of progress and feeling good about that. I love to hear that. With enough hurting people moving forward towards healing, the world will heal itself.

Keep up the good work for yourself and OOTS. You're making a difference in the world in many ways.

Luke
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on September 11, 2018, 04:04:45 PM
I am so glad things seem to be going well for you both.  :hug: I wish I had the capacity to respond more directly, but I will eventually. Just stopping in to wish you well and to write some more on EMDR.

I was reminded last night just how powerful this stuff can be. It has always been powerful, but not every session is the same sort of big emotional thing. Especially not after having done emdr for  year. We got to the meatier bit of the new emdr method I am doing and it was beyond powerful for me. I will be feeling the affects for a few days I think. I was reminded that having down time scheduled in, and self care things readily available for a few days after sessions can be a really important thing at first. This reminder was a good one for me and I thought maybe a good thing to share here as well, for those of us doing emdr.

I will try to post more fully, but I need it to be concise on this board. I wrote in my journal as a way to just get a bunch out. Don't want to do that on this one since it is more focused emdr wise. So maybe in the future. Anyways just stopping by. Thanks for letting me ramble a little
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on September 11, 2018, 04:51:24 PM
Tks Luke for your supportive post.  I suspect that until DT passes away we are stuck with him as he will not go quietly into the night even after he is gone. He need attention, that's what he does and as an exPres he can get it.  Once he's out of power hopefully the media will cease & desist covering his every little N utterances and chaos sowing and I and others can distance ourselves.  Right now he just blots out the sun. 

BTW, my T shared with me that her F has NPD so she is well aware of how triggering DT is.  That makes me even more confident she knows what I am dealing with and that EMDR can help shift my childhood belief  I do not matter and the hurt, powerlessness & hopelessness that raises in younger me.   

Glad to hear you are making progress Elph  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Luke57 on September 11, 2018, 10:46:10 PM
Hi Kizzie,

You're right! I'm sure DT won't go quietly. Bummer.  :blink:
I think that was my angry, rebellious teenager who wrote the first two paragraphs of my post about DT. Though I stand behind the thoughts expressed, it could've been done a little less angrily. Then, thankfully, my grownup self took over on the last two paragraphs and meant every word of it.  :yes:
I'm sorry you're hurting from the childhood belief that you don't matter. That's my main core belief that still tortures me, also. It's very painful. So, I'm with you in hoping EMDR can help you gain a new sense of yourself that's positive and more in line with the truth.

Luke
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on September 12, 2018, 05:04:41 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 14, 2018, 01:58:32 AM
kizzie, i'm glad that therapy and your t are seemingly a fit for you this time.  also glad your little you's are a bit stronger this time around. 

i don't blame you for the nervousness.  in order to put a toe into the eye movement part, you might ask if you can try it out on something very small, or as a means of relaxation, something like that.  something relatively non-threatening for you.  i'd hope your t will help you find what you need to break the ice for yourself.  but, i'm really glad you feel pretty safe with her.

i agree, i think it helps that she recognizes what npd is all about (many t's don't really have a clue) - i think it will help a lot.

all credit to you, kizzie, for jumping in again.  pretty brave and determined are you.   love and hugs.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on September 14, 2018, 06:16:15 PM
So I had my first actual EMDR session yesterday and am happy to report it went well - no EF during or after, just a headache and really tired.  I came home and slept for 3 hrs!  :zzz: 

I was able to get right into the anger and hurt of feeling like I don't matter because my FOO is rife with NPD, and that tells me I'm ready to deal with it, process it and shift out of it (versus blocking it or dissociating I mean).   

I really hope this helps me to get unstuck from Trump's constant triggering so I can start moving forward again.  So far so good.  :yes:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on September 14, 2018, 06:48:38 PM
Yay! That is so great to hear Kizzie  :cheer: Also great job on taking the time to sleep.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on September 14, 2018, 07:55:13 PM
 :yeahthat:  :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on October 01, 2018, 10:21:15 PM
So I had another EMDR session on Thurs and am happy (and relieved) to say I did not have an EF this time either.     I didn't even come home and pass out like the first time and no headache  :boogie:

I seem to be regaining the distance I had from all things NPD as this was another week of chaos & abuse by Trump and his cronies but I didn't dissociate nor did I feel the same amount of deep hopelessness, helplessness and depression I had been for the last year and a half.  It's like I have actually gained some objectivity/distance back thru the EMDR instead of feeling like I am trapped and being abused by NPD behaviour all over again.  All I felt was anger at how badly a powerful person with NPD  (& his minions) are treating survivors of SA.

BTW, read a great article this morning about maintaining mental health & well-being in the face of Trump's behaviour here - https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/27/inside-the-mind-of-donald-trump-219074. 
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on October 01, 2018, 10:56:16 PM
Yay  :cheer: :cheer: So very glad to hear it is going well!
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on October 02, 2018, 11:50:49 AM
 :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: for your progress!
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Luke57 on October 02, 2018, 03:52:58 PM
Hi kizzie, I'm very encouraged to hear that EMDR is going so well for you. Its great to hear that the "Trump triggers" aren't having as much of a powerful effect on you as they have in the past. Congrats on overcoming a major hurdle. ( And thanks for the link to the article about DT. )

I wish you peace and growing strength in both your work and recovery. Luke
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on October 12, 2018, 05:39:38 PM
I hesitated in writing about this but in the interests of being accurate/up front I decided to go ahead.  So I am now having some difficulty with anxiety, something that has not been an issue for me for a very long time.

I do still feel like I have distance from the whole Trump matter and I don't feel the same helplessness, hopelessness, powerlessness and depression I had been feeling.  However, I have started having this underlying feeling like something bad is going to happen. It's not an EF, it's more like anxiety and feeling off somehow, but there is nothing I can pin it down to or new that has happened other than the EMDR.  :Idunno: 

I don't go again until next week and will have a talk with my T as I am concerned the EMDR has tapped into too much again.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on October 12, 2018, 05:42:56 PM
Thank you for sharing openly Kizzie. I really hope you can calm the anxiety and ground. Also that your T has ideas about it.   :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on October 12, 2018, 06:52:24 PM
 :yeahthat:  :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Three Roses on October 13, 2018, 04:32:29 AM
 :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on October 13, 2018, 05:30:51 AM
Tk you, hugs always help  :yes:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 14, 2018, 01:16:29 AM
i hope your t will help you get grounded and calmed.  thanks for your honesty.  is there a way you can contact her before your next session?  there is a technique called the butterfly hug that many t's will teach/show their clients to be able to use for themselves between sessions if they experience anxiety.  it's very simple and i've used it on myself.  very relaxing and calming.

i'm glad some of the other stuff has settled a bit for you.  hopefully, your t will go more slowly with you so you won't get overwhelmed.  best to you, kizzie.  love and loads of hugs to you.   :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Libby183 on October 14, 2018, 07:40:31 AM
I'm sorry to hear that you have been suffering from an increased level of anxiety,  Kizzie.  This is exactly what I found after emdr.  It built and built after the sessions stopped, and never before has it felt so physical.  In the past,  my anxiety was more in my thoughts,  but after treatment,  it was much more physical.  In fact, it was like my whole body,  every nerve was over reacting all the time,  to every thing around me, and to every thought in my head. So awful,  in fact,  that I took mirtazipine for ten days, which, in turn,  made me about a hundred times more anxious again. I stopped it and am doing better now.

I stopped posting here because I didn't want to be negative about medication and treatment that might be of huge value to others. What did help, however, was that the huge feeling of anger towards my parents,  and to a small extent, the emdr therapist, led me to break nc and phone my parents and tell them how much I truly hated them. I have never done this, but their reaction and my subsequent emotions,  showed me that I was right to hate them, should not feel shame and guilt, and above all, I really felt for my inner child who had been so hurt by them.

So I wonder if bringing this intense anxiety to the surface, that had been so deeply buried for so long,  was actually a necessary part of healing.  Since this, I have felt so much better,  and have made some real strides in recovery.

Perhaps these negative phases are part of the process, but I remain concerned that doctors and therapists are prescribing medication and treatments that aren't fully understood.

Good luck with your next session. 

Libby.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Hope67 on October 14, 2018, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: Libby183 on October 14, 2018, 07:40:31 AM

So I wonder if bringing this intense anxiety to the surface, that had been so deeply buried for so long,  was actually a necessary part of healing.  Since this, I have felt so much better,  and have made some real strides in recovery.



Hi Libby - I just wanted to comment on what you said here  - I am glad that you were able to do this, and that you feel better for it.   :hug: to you Libby. 


I hope I'm not hijacking this thread by saying this, as I've not read the rest of the thread at all - just saw that you'd been here Libby, and I wanted to say how pleased I feel to see you're making some "real strides in recovery" - I've missed you!

Hope  :)
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Elphanigh on October 14, 2018, 04:42:28 PM
From my experience with Emdr, the first bit did bring about anxiety and added emotions for a while. Especially when I was only seeing my T once every two weeks. Like going that long let the feelings fester and that was unhealthy for me personally. With time emdr helped me process the source of the anxiety and the coping skills we built for month ahead of time truly helped me control the anxiety in a healthy way. That being said everyone is different, and every T is different.  Trauma recovery is definitely not a one size fits all sort of experience as we all know way to well.

Just wanted to send lots of encouragement and stop by to see if it has been getting better. Sitting with you  :hug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on October 14, 2018, 05:11:08 PM
Tks everyone for your support and ideas  :thumbup:  My H and I are on another weekend road trip seeing the last of the fall colours so will answer once I'm back home.
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Blueberry on October 14, 2018, 05:15:40 PM
Enjoy those fall colours! ;D
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Kizzie on October 16, 2018, 04:17:56 PM
The fall colours were awesome.  Unfortunately the anxiety did not really lift but I think I have some idea now what's going on.  I think what has changed is that I am no longer in touch as much with my M and that's what's playing in the background.  We were LC but I am embarrassed to admit that over time it crept up to her emailing 2-3 times daily AND us playing Scrabble daily. I stopped emailing as much and stopped playing Scrabble altogether and that's a no no when it comes to my M.  She hasn't said much yet but given the past I'm sure it's festering and therein lies the anxiety. I am waiting to hear how I am not a good daughter once again.

It came out in the last EMDR session how tired I was from her constant drive to enmesh me and how tired of propping her up and being her listening post again. I had gotten away from doing that but allowed it to creep back in over the last two years (Trump?!).  I really don't need or want  to hear when she gets up, what she eats, who she talks to, what she buys shopping, and when she goes to bed. If I didn't take my Scrabble turn quickly enough she'd say something like "No Scrabble turn yet, I'll check my iPad when I wake up,"  all N enmeshment behaviour that I hate.

Part of me is just done with her N behaviour (and I credit EMDR for that actually - I have stopped playing Scrabble and have cut way down on emails), and I suspect the other half of me is just really anxious waiting for the gates of * to open again as they did in the past when I put myself first.

I honestly am nervous about going forward with more EMDR because this anxiety is so unpleasant but I'm also afraid not to because I want to be done with the fear and guilt and obligation taking me down.  I go again on Thursday and will talk to her about this whole issue. 

Tks for weighing in and sending support and encouragement everyone, it's much appreciated  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Hope67 on October 16, 2018, 05:19:46 PM
Hi Kizzie,
Just wanted to send you a warm and supportive hug - if that's ok  :hug: - I just read what you wrote here, and I think you're doing well to cope with this - it must be really challenging and also tiring. 
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again
Post by: Three Roses on October 16, 2018, 06:22:17 PM
 :hug:

I'm sorry you're going thru all that. Why can't they just leave us alone?  :pissed:

On a side note, until I read this post, I'd been second guessing my decision to go back to NC with the sibling. I thought, he reached out and at least made an effort, maybe I shouldn't be so harsh. Your post has brought me back to my senses at least temporarily. :rofl: