I am trying to decide whether to use the term 'survival sex' in the blurb on the back of a book I have written, but am unsure whether it will confuse people.
Is it a mainstream term?
What does it mean to you?
To me, it is not the same as prostitution, but a forced situation, where there is no (perceived) choice, no escape. A chronically traumatised, sexually abused person would be more likely to find themselves in such a situation, a person without any support network. That's just my opinion.
Would be interested in your views. Thanks.
I've not heard of this term before. But when I read your title what I thought was as you described, someone who is engaging in sex to get it over with, to minimize the damage, to avoid being physically hurt or killed - because there is no escape. That's at least my experience...
Hi Sceal,
Interesting that you hadn't heard of the term before, and the connections you made. That's kind of what I was hoping.
There's an irony in the term; it's a kind of oxymoron, because if you are engaging in 'survival sex' to avoid being physically hurt or killed, you are still damaging your mind/spirit, because it is against your will. You are killing your soul - in my opinion. And therefore, it's highly traumatic. You will probably dissociate as you can't escape, and have other PTSD symptoms. I am no expert, but from the bits and pieces I have read and studied this is the impression I am getting.
What you described is rape.
Thank you Dee. That is exactly my take on it. I recently asked a survivor (someone I know) whether he had heard of the term. And he shook his head grimly, saying yes, it had happened to him, and it's rape.
I have to agree that it would be rape because there is no real or perceived choice involved and the person would not be consenting but submitting.
It's interesting to know that those who have gone through it know the term, but it doesn't appear to be mainstream. It adds to a more nuanced understanding of choice versus submission in terms of sexual abuse and violence imo, so perhaps it's a good thing you are thinking about using the term Fen (raises awareness).
I don't want to say anything more than this about it, but I think rape could be just one type of survival sex.
You hit the nail Kizzie, submitting in this instance makes it rape
Three Roses - wow! hadn't thought of it like that, but yes...................it is
I contacted the CEO of a survivors' mentoring charity for his opinion on my wording, giving him a choice of a version with the phrase 'survival sex' and another version saying - 'falling prey to....'. He chose the version where I'd included 'survival sex,' and was really supportive about it.
I am beginning to think that maybe this is a time to be brave and use such a provocative, ambiguous term on the back cover of my book, a term that can easily be confused, interpreted in different ways. It would give me a reason to blog about the topic and "raise awareness", like you say Kizzie. I am now thinking of adding a trigger warning at the front of the book (even though it's fiction), especially as it's aimed at young people. I think it's the kind of story that victims and survivors will recognise and perhaps be affected by, but most people will only relate to the parts that resonate with their experience, and not 'get' the full message.
Good to hear you are checking this out with those who have dealt with it Fen, it will make it that much more authentic and will resonate. I do think it is really important to make sure you connect the term to the fact that it is unequivocally rape, it just differs in how the perpetrator takes away choice (e.g., emotionally versus physically overpowering the person). Otherwise, as you say it may be "confused, interpreted in different ways."
Hi Kizzie, Have just been consulting someone I know who is a police officer working in child protection. I spent some time outlining the story in answer to some of his questions. His response was: 'To the victim it may be survival sex, but in terms of law there are a whole host of offences.' I hope to discuss this further with him, as I would like to know what those offences are.
In the meantime, my instincts are telling me to use a different term on the back cover blurb of my book to avoid confusion (probably a quote from the story itself) and then blog about survival sex from a victim's point of view, ie it being rape, like you say, and what the term means to those in positions of authority, in law etc. Now I feel I have stumbled upon an important issue, where victims are perhaps being misunderstood when applying this term to their circumstances. I want to look into it further, maybe get some more views from victims and survivors.
I have to admit this threat was a bit more triggering than I first thought. But I think it's an important topic, and one that's not talked often enough about.
I always figured that it'd be hard to prove that survival sex in this sense would be hard to prove in a law of court, especially if the person doesn't always explisitly force, manipulate or threaten into their own will. But the victim just comply at all times to prevent further damage.
But it also reminded me of this youtube video about concent. And I wanted to share it with you guys. It's stick figure drawing, and they use an analogy.
It's called the Tea Concent.
Such a powerful term Fen.
I have never heard of it before, but it makes complete sense the way it has been discussed here.
I would say go for it. Society can only learn about this form of rape (I hate that word), if it is used in the appropriate context.
These words and phrases all have to 'start' somewhere.
I'd never heard of it and presumed you were asking what kind of sex practices survivors engage in. My answer would be 'none' which is why I haven't checked the thread until now. I'm pretty clueless about this topic.
Sorry if I've triggered anyone by discussing this topic (Sceal - apologies). Am trying to be careful, but it's not easy avoiding certain words when trying to get clarity on this term. Please be careful, and take a break if the subject is affecting you.
Sceal said:
QuoteI always figured that it'd be hard to prove that survival sex in this sense would be hard to prove in a law of court, especially if the person doesn't always explisitly force, manipulate or threaten into their own will. But the victim just comply at all times to prevent further damage.
Agreed. I wonder whether evidence of CPTSD prior to the incident, ie prior abuse, would make a court sympathetic? It seems that previously traumatised people are most at risk. I feel pessimistic about the idea though, especially given that CPTSD isn't mainstream yet, though it is creeping into the manuals of some mental health charities.
Thanks for your support Contessa.
Blueberry - I'd go for 'none' too. Hope the thread has been interesting.
I have been discussing the topic again with my friend in the police force. He wrote to me saying, 'anybody using sex to survive whether consensual or not, it could be described as survival sex'. In UK law. Section 74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 defines consent as: "if he agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice." Prosecutors consider this in two stages. I won't list them here in case it's triggering. There is also grooming and exploitation under the Modern Day Slavery Act to consider. So, in summary, there could be various offences involved when a person feels forced to submit to someone else's will to survive. I want to concentrate on highlighting these. Otherwise, survival sex could become another term for prostitution, and that seems very wrong, and a huge disservice to the victims and survivors, minimising the total * they've been through.
Quote from: Fen Starshimmer on November 08, 2017, 11:15:32 PM
Sorry if I've triggered anyone by discussing this topic (Sceal - apologies). Am trying to be careful, but it's not easy avoiding certain words when trying to get clarity on this term. Please be careful, and take a break if the subject is affecting you.
I hope I didn't make you feel bad because I said I got triggered by the topic. It was mainly surprising to me, and enlightening in a way. It helps me figure out what stuff I need to work on. :) And I still think this is an important topic to bring light to.
From what I've read in the media here about cases going to court, if the victim was already mentally ill, that doesn't nessecerily play in the victim's favour. It has on occation put questionmark to the victim's validity. Which I think is just plain awful! But this isn't things I've personally known, simply read about.
Sceal - you just reminded me that some people may be getting triggered by my post. You didn't make me feel bad. I have to be careful too... especially during my research, which I only do in small amounts. It's really helpful to me to hear what people think about this term. I think more needs to be said and written about it to clarify it from the victims' point of view. Some news sites are describing survival sex as sex work eg stripping, escorting, brothels, prostitution, saying that homeless youth are more likely to 'engage' in it to keep off the streets, get a meal etc. They make it sound like a choice.
Sceal said:
[/quote] From what I've read in the media here about cases going to court, if the victim was already mentally ill, that doesn't nessecerily play in the victim's favour. It has on occation put questionmark to the victim's validity. Which I think is just plain awful! But this isn't things I've personally known, simply read about.
[/quote]
Yes, I have heard this too. Mental health issues can be used like a weapon against you by the other side in court to destroy your credibility. So, if you're already a victim suffering the effects of abuse, CPTSD etc and you end up in a survival sex situation, you would be unlikely to get redress, eg compensation, justice, for what you have suffered. That's just my opinion based on talking to people and what I've read.
I have just found out that Scotland introduced an "I Just Froze" campaign earlier this year to educate the public and jurors 'that when subjected to a violent or sexual assault many people "freeze" rather than fighting back'. So that is at least a small step in the right direction. Only Scotland though.
I hope this still helps, even though it's been a while and then the forums went :fallingbricks: and then came back. :)
To me the term itself is very triggering, I read the title and my mind went blank. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing if what you're looking for is awareness in people who wouldn't be triggered but would just have no idea what survival even means. Survivors may not read it though. I'd probably find it too triggering.
I was also thinking 'survival sex' could mean any number of things, it could be interpreted in so many ways, contradictory ways. It could even be taken (very mistakenly, by readers who are clueless and haven't been in such dangerous situations) as some sort of free choice or personal taste, like saying "This is what survivors like!" :doh: it's beyond wrong but I can imagine it going in that direction too.
By 'survival' is the emphasis on having survived things in the past, or surviving the present moment? Or maybe both?
If it's past violence that they survived, then yeah, the data about stereotypes about mental illness and/or trauma could maybe change how readers might understand the term.
If the intended audience is people who don't know what trauma feels like, it may be interesting to use the term without explaining what you mean at first. Let people wonder about it at first, maybe.
Just my two cents / random thoughts.
[same tw- sexual abuse- for my post in particular]
the term gave me a jolt, too. i never heard it before. but in a way it really speaks to me. in my mind, it evokes the sex i had with my mostly-ex-H. because survival was the end goal of it for me. just acting my part in this degrading show, so i could keep on living my own life after it was done.
the way i read 'survival sex', it touches on the issue of what choice really means in a way that the term 'rape' doesn't. there are plenty of people out there who think that it's only rape when there is literally no other choice at all. so they believe what happened to me wasn't rape. because i didn't fight back or scream for help, usually didn't even say no. i usually pretended to enjoy it, so he wouldn't shout or threaten me or anything worse. i even tried to get myself to *genuinely* enjoy it, because if i could get my body to respond, i wouldn't feel as much physical pain. that was my choice. but it wasn't a *free* choice. it was a choice between two types of abuse. i chose the one that i thought would be more survivable.
calling it survival sex owns the choice in a way, by clarifying what the alternative would have been. submitting to coerced sex and surviving OR facing violence, abandonment, other dangers? faced with this impossible dichotomy, i could say i chose to have survival sex, to accept the damage to my soul instead of risking my life.
i don't know if that's a term i want to use, since this is still totally mixed up in my head. i have no idea if that's what you meant by it either, Fen. but that's what i thought upon reading it.
miauoe, I'm really sorry you had to endure that at the hands of your h! :hug:
You have certainly described it very clearly. I think it is what Fen meant. I know that her book has since been published but I don't know what she chose to do in the end.
Quote from: ah on February 04, 2018, 01:49:03 PM
It could even be taken (very mistakenly, by readers who are clueless and haven't been in such dangerous situations) as some sort of free choice or personal taste, like saying "This is what survivors like!" :doh: it's beyond wrong but I can imagine it going in that direction too.
That's sort of what I understood when I first saw the thread so I didn't look at it till sometime in November. So I learned something!
What I precisely understood was 'the type of sex survivors engage in later, as adults'. There are survivors of CSA who have sex later as adults. Obviously. They have children etc. In my case it really is 'None.' though. In many ways, lucky me. I can mostly stay out of that minefield of triggers.
Other parts of your post are thoughtful as usual :thumbup: ah. I know Fen's book has already been published but it doesn't hurt to keep discussing here on the board.
- TW - Take care please
Thank you for your thoughts on this murky phrase Ah, Miaoue and Blueberry. All very interesting and useful.
Yes, you're right Blueberry. I decided against using the term in connection with my book, because after posting on here and reading the discussion, I realised how ambiguous and confusing the term could be. It could be interpreted in any number of ways, some of which Ah has noted. And the people who might interpret it as I intended could easily be triggered by it.
Ah said:
QuoteIt could even be taken (very mistakenly, by readers who are clueless and haven't been in such dangerous situations) as some sort of free choice or personal taste, like saying "This is what survivors like!" :doh: it's beyond wrong but I can imagine it going in that direction too.
I wouldn't be surprised either... Or it could be associated with outdoor (wilderness) survival!
What gets me most annoyed is how 'survival sex' gets thrown around in articles, especially academic ones, describing young people 'engaging' in it, making it synonymous with prostitution. I think this is harmful, and trivialises the seriousness of the effects of forced or coerced sex, muddying the waters between exploitation, rape and prostitution, giving people who prey on vulnerable people (especially CSA victims, who have been shown to be the most vulnerable) an almost foolproof protection against being charged with an offence. Victims of 'survival sex' are therefore less likely to find sympathy and the kind of help they need to recover.
Miaoue, what you said here is in line with my thinking:
Quotecalling it survival sex owns the choice in a way, by clarifying what the alternative would have been. submitting to coerced sex and surviving OR facing violence, abandonment, other dangers? faced with this impossible dichotomy, i could say i chose to have survival sex, to accept the damage to my soul instead of risking my life.
It's a kind of rape... which has been mentioned before in this thread. That's the nub of survival sex in my opinion: submit and damage your soul and your health, or risk your life.
And if you have CPTSD already (and most people still are unaware of CPTSD), you are less likely to find an escape, more likely to feel trapped in it, and become further damaged by the situation. :doh:
this has really been interesting. i'd not heard the term before, didn't know what it might mean, so i was making stuff up in my mind. my own stuff didn't make it to the level mentioned by others here. that means that, if there are others out there like me, it would be a very good term to bring out in the open and have explained. my opinion only. i don't know if it should be referenced on a book cover - maybe to pique interest? and be explained in the body of the work, or what.
but, if the back of a book were the only place i saw the term, i wouldn't really understand the depth of the concept and all the nuances involved. just my 2 cents.
thanks Blueberry :hug: it means a lot to me.
Fen, i found myself thinking i might like to read your book, but i don't know if perhaps you didn't want to post specifics in this forum? well, if you are comfortable, feel free to link me to it :)
Sanmagic said:
Quotei'd not heard the term before, didn't know what it might mean, so i was making stuff up in my mind. my own stuff didn't make it to the level mentioned by others here. that means that, if there are others out there like me, it would be a very good term to bring out in the open and have explained. my opinion only.
Yes, agreed Sanmagic. I think it would be beneficial to have this term openly discussed and explained. Maybe an OOTS blog topic?
Miaoue, thank you for your interest in reading my book. That's really great! :) There is just one drawback... I've thought about it quite hard, and I don't think I'm ready to post details in this forum. For now, I'd just like to keep a low profile if that's OK with you. Thanks for your understanding.
sorry Fen i didn't catch your post last week! no problem, i understand :hug: