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Honestly, sometimes it seems to me that Ns are everywhere and I cannot relax because of how off kilter/back brain I become if I get caught out by someone I didn't realize was N at first. It's the one thing that can still set me off, often when I least expect it which is frustrating.

I did learn to manage my NM so that's something as she loomed oh so large in my life so I'm almost proud of that as for 100 pound 90 something years she could still pack a punch when she was alive. Like you Edna I no longer would play her games and she knew it so she mostly stopped all the really N stuff with me (my NB not so much). It took a while for her to understand I wasn't having it but eventually she got the message and behaved more or less.

I did try EMDR by the way Healing Finally, when Trump got into power in the US (I'm from Canada) and he was on the news 24/7.  It actually did help as I was able to take a step back. I couldn't watch the news mind you as it was too much.

Hi and a warm welcome to OOTS SunSpirit.  You don't need an 'official" diagnosis here given the APA DSM doesn't yet include CPTSD.  It's enough that you recognize it yourself and want to work on recovery alongside all of us.

Glad you found us and I hope the support, info and resources here help you.

I just doublechecked it and it is there.  Maybe just refresh your browser and see if that does it.

This topic has been moved to Please Introduce Yourself Here.

https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15971.0

This shot is from a presentation by one of two professors I will be working with on a project this summer to develop a resource for medical and mental health institutions, professionals and students. She is a trauma focused cognitive neuroscientist at the Univ of Victoria in Canada. She talks about us in the presentation which is cool to see. 

Her presentation if you want to watch it is here - https://youtu.be/Mt6DY0ftKuI.

The other thing I want to mention here is that recently we've had a lot more survivors sign up from Europe and so I think there must have been a conference over there and we were mentioned as a good resource.  Yay us!

Slashy:  I copied a section from the book several of us are working on to give you an idea of exactly what Complex Relational Trauma is.  Hope it helps.

Complex Trauma (CT) is the overall umbrella term used to describe various traumatic stress experiences that are protracted/repeated, overwhelm the individual in an ongoing way, and from which escape is not possible or is perceived as such. There are several different types of CT, some examples of which include:

Group: This type of trauma is inflicted on groups of people by others based on certain identifiable characteristics (e.g., race, gender, sexual orientation), and/or beliefs (e.g., political, religious). The Black Lives Matter movement is one example of group trauma.

Impersonal: This type of CT involves more natural events which are ongoing to an extent and create overwhelming traumatic stress for individuals (e.g., natural disasters, chronic illness).

Institutional: This refers to trauma inflicted by the ongoing actions or lack thereof on the part of institutions that are responsible for the welfare/well being/safety of individuals (e.g., police, justice system, religious organizations).

Relational: This type of CT is also referred to as interpersonal trauma.  It refers to trauma in which an individual is trapped for an extended period of time in an abusive/neglectful relationship with someone who has a degree of authority/power over them (e.g., parent, partner, coach, teacher, employer, religious leader).

Our book is about the last type of CT – relational.  Our focus is on adults who developed CPTSD as a result of Complex Relational Trauma (CRT) beginning in childhood or adulthood. CRT refers to abuse/neglect that is interpersonal, intimate and soul crushing. As Ford and Courtois (2020) describe it, the "i's" have it when it comes to CRT. It is "intentional, injurious, invasive, intrusive, and intimate", and "calls into question the safety, sanctity, and even the very possibility of being a unique and integrated individual who can be intimately involved with others" (p. 7). What distinguishes us from other CT survivors is that the perpetrator focuses on us as individuals, believing we are vulnerable and can be abused in secret without repercussions. They do so because they have some degree of power over us and want something from us such as control, sex, money and so on. It generally does not have anything to do with a particular group we may belong to–for example, race, religious, political, sexual orientation– although that may be part of the reason in some cases.

There are two diagnoses relating to the relational traumatization of children and adults; for children the diagnosis being proposed is Developmental Trauma Disorder (DTD), and for adults it is Complex PTSD. Complex PTSD has been accepted as an official diagnosis by the World Health Organization (WHO) in its classification of diseases manual the ICD-11. DTD has not been accepted by the WHO and neither diagnosis has been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) for its classification manual the DMS.

DTD relates to CT in childhood because the trauma interrupts the developmental stages and attachment processes that are normal in the early years of life. DTD is characterized by insecure attachment styles, poor self-identity development, interpersonal sensitivity and consistent problems in relationships, including with peers, adults, and primary caregivers, high rates of psychiatric comorbidities, and chronic and debilitating medical/neurological illnesses (Cruz et al, 2022). It is not difficult to see that the seeds of Complex PTSD are sown in childhood trauma, and that prevention and intervention are imperative. Clearly, it is important in the case of children who are experiencing CT that there be a separate diagnosis to assess and treat them effectively.

France is still there BB, just moved it so the countries are alphabetical. 

Agreed Papa Coco    There is just no sense talking to them and I know that from years around the N's in my family but sometimes you're just stuck dealing with someone.

My H and I were just talking about his sister who was the executor for his NM's estate.  His NS told us their M left us money but after a couple of months and nothing my H started asking her about it.  She then started saying there was no money even though we had emails from her saying there was. She said she never told him there was money even though we had it in writing, and she just continued to run him around. After a while with him trying to get her to tell the truth she would no longer speak to him. Soon after she bought a lovely condo in Victoria.

We were going to use the money for our son's university so naturally we were quite angry with her. We didn't have a copy of the will or any of his M's accounts and figured it would be too expensive to take her to court so we just let it go.  Somehow in all of this we were the bad guys as is the case with N's and their smear campaigns. We were being mean to her.

My H being the good guy he is tried reaching out to her a few times over the years but she would not talk to him even when she was sick and dying. 

So as you say, "Live and let die". 

Thank you for your apology Slashy. IMO it's a sign of recovery if you can accept gracefully when someone offers constructive criticism. Oftentimes on this forum when I have to speak to a member they will do one of two things, go into fight mode which is difficult to deal with, or leave. It's understandable given what we have all been through that members would pick those two options so it is lovely when a member chooses the route you did.   

I agree Slashy.  It is a theme that runs throughout this forum; that is, all relational trauma is damaging.  It used to be that emotional abuse wasn't considered traumatic but it's clear now that it is actually the core wound in all forms of relational abuse.

One way I explain this to new members is that if you are here and you have the 6 main symptoms of CPTSD then yes it was that bad. It took me a while to really believe I had been abused because I was not physically or sexually abused, but emotional abuse? Definitely! And here I am, 67 and still trying to recover from the covert N abuse I suffered.

So if anyone is wondering, just think about the symptoms you have, how you feel inside and it will become clear you belong here.

 

This topic has been moved to Member Journals.

https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15964.0

Enjoy!

I have one area of recovery that still rises up for me and causes me to dysregulate. It's having to interact with someone who is an N. If I get caught in a situation with an N I do try and stay online, but if the person starts gaslighting and using circular logic, etc, I will often go offline, into the back brain that says stay as far away from this person as possible. It's particularly bad when I get caught off guard as in when it's a covert N and I don't realize until after a few minutes.

Up from the depths comes a deep, deep anger that knocks me off kilter for days and I know it is because I grew up with N's. In particular my B used to run me around in circles and used gaslighting and manipulation to shut me down.  I hated it then and it appears I still hate it today decades later. It infuriates me.   

I did make some progress with my NM by managing her (and moving to the other side of the country), so I'm happy about having a reasonable relationship before she died, but my NB forget it.  Ten minutes in a room with him and I'm toast.  The same goes for any N's I bump into in the course of my life that I can't immediately get away from. 

I honestly don't know if I will ever "recover" from this entirely. The thing I hate the most about trying to deal with an N is not being heard, of being dismissed, gaslit, manipulated. I am a decent, reasonable, caring person and I try to deal with others honestly and respectfully, and I ask that people treat me the same way. I can't abide those who don't do the same. All you can do really is walk away. 

BB and I have been here for a very long time so it's almost fun to figure something like this out. 

Oh that's why I could send a PM, I'm the Admin so the features don't work for me.  Well, it's helpful to know Cascade you won't receive any PMs and can ignore whomever's posts at least.