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Messages - ah

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Having an Exceptionally Difficult Day / Re: Lady T is leaving
« on: October 21, 2018, 04:27:31 PM »
I wasn't really abandoned as a child, so I'm not sure where this is coming from.

Neglect and abuse are abandonment, in my opinion. It's hard to experience more loss and I'm sorry you're going thru this right now.  :hug:

I totally agree with Three Roses. Sceal, when I read what you wrote about not having been abandoned I thought "but wait - if you felt unsafe, if you felt you had no adult to turn to then that in itself is enough to be abandoned in my mind.
There's the type of abandonment we see in movies and tv where a kid is physically left alone for days / not fed 'etc., but that's not the only kind taking place. I guess being in danger, not being protected from danger are abandonment too. The worst thing about abuse for me is knowing I was and am a throw-away person to my abusers.

Besides all the therapeutic reasons it would be hard to say goodbye to a good T, I bet you'll also just simply miss her as a person. She sounds like one of the good ones. It's always hard to say goodbye to one of those... they're rare. What you're feeling makes perfect sense to me.


All very true. Insightful. The problem is the truth that you describe so well is probably very seldom understood by a person who hasn't already been chewed up and damaged.

So it's now a case of, for me I mean, how to manage the psychological injury suffered,  but also how to manage the deep need for the truth to be heard. I live in a community where the misrepresentation cultivated around me and about me following my attempts to stand up for myself, now define me.

Do you know what I mean? I am defined by their lies and the stress I exhibited.

I think I know exactly what you mean. I'm in a similar situation. It's a hard place to be. I bet you're in a very tough spot.
I wish I could take it away from you. It's crazy making, all these lies and people's blindness. For what it's worth I'm completely 100% with you. It's very hard to see how dangerous some people can be before it happens to you.

Having an Exceptionally Difficult Day / Re: Not sure what to say
« on: October 17, 2018, 10:14:54 PM »

It's agonizing is all it amounts to sometimes.

Oh yeah... I couldn't agree more... that, just that.

You may not feel it, but just knowing you're still as wise and reflective as we've come to know you is a good deal, though still very hard to take in. Your external troubles may have increased, but your interior flame is burning bright, and it's a treasure to see that.

Thanks for being here, even in these circumstances.

That though... are you sure you're thinking of me?..
I see a very different me.

I'm sorry
thanks for being here even when I'm in pieces

Having an Exceptionally Difficult Day / Re: Not sure what to say
« on: October 17, 2018, 10:10:26 PM »
Please give yourself mercy, Ah. 

That's so kind and I appreciate it. I'm not sure what it means though. I don't mean to be obtuse, just... I have plenty to give to anyone else but if I gave it to myself I'd soften and I can't afford to soften. My life is too hard to bear that sort of thing. I'd explode under the pressure of the ongoing abuse I have to live with. I feel like I have to be as tough as nails so mercy isn't on the table for me. I don't know if that makes sense..? I'm sorry if it doesn't. Life long abuse is a special kind of hell I guess.

You've done so much that deserves your own praise.  You are so much!

I can't see what you see. Sorry... I re-read what I wrote and it seemed so arrogant. "I do this and that... blah blah." I wanted to delete it for a minute.
The things I'm still doing I do anonymously. I'm so utterly tired of hatred and being attacked so I do it this way. I'm in the back.
The people I'm starting the org. with have no idea I plan to drop out soon, the moment it's up and running and I've given all I could. They don't realize I'm dying, or how desperate and how much I want to die already right now. Sigh. I guess they see me the way you see me. I don't see anyone like that.
My blindness maybe..? Or I'm confusing... I don't know.
I'm not well.
Hanging on barely.


She says management love this guy...  this guy has had 2 harassment cases taken against him before and a man has tried to kill himself because of his management....... but management have invested in him and they can't have him fail!!!!!

What the hell?

I agree with every word Rainagain said and I've been in similar situations more than once. Heard literally these exact same words from management about work place abusers. More than once. So I guess this reaction from different managements is part of the abuse cycle itself and is a clear pattern too.

I guess there aren't many options. One can stay put at work if the dangers are known: if your friend understands that this is abuse and maybe, just maybe, if the abuser doesn't get bored the level of abuse might stay constant and it might be hard but bearable. Still, there may be long term repercussions for her. But if she's fully aware of the risks and is willing to take them on then that's one choice she can maybe make.

But this is an abuser who's fully backed by management so it's easy to imagine he might get bored and escalate his behavior more and more. This is a real danger.

Walking away is so hard. I know. None of us want to believe such evil behavior is out there, and that we have no protection from it.

Maybe your friend can write down the pros and cons of staying put and re-assess them on a weekly basis? Even if it was worth it to stay put last week, it's always possible to change one's mind.

I'm sorry for your friend and for the stress I'm sure it's causing you too. How insanely triggering it must be... so I really respect you for being there for your friend, that's no small feat of courage and kindness on your part.

It's a dangerous place to be for your friend. Probably there are no good outcomes, that's what happens when a sadistic abuser picks a person as a favorite. I'm sorry she has to go through that.

Having an Exceptionally Difficult Day / Not sure what to say
« on: October 17, 2018, 12:15:30 PM »
Not sure what to say. But I know some really good people here so here I am, even though I'm not too far from speechless.

Am unable to make some partial peace with what happened to me in the past month.

I'm not having an especially bad month in terms of mood swings, which tells me how bad it is, you know? I'm not struggling with questions of hope and meaning like I was before, I've given them up completely.

Still, I have to do some things I promised to do. I began an org. to help others a few months ago. It's about to take off and is expected to potentially grow fast and help so many people. So I keep at it because people who are in need don't care how I feel, they just need my help. The hopelessness of the person offering it doesn't matter at all. But I also do it because I hate myself to such a complete degree now that everything I still do I see as my penance. 

I also got a huge job order. I've been working on developing professionally for the past few years and it just came into fruition right now. Ironically. I laughed and laughed at the timing. So I work on that, as my penance. I thought okay, I'll just do this one job really well to make up a little for everything I've obviously done and for the hopelessness I feel now and for how evil I obviously am for giving up hope completely. My life has been beyond a joke. Total failure on all fronts. Waste of oxygen just like my F defined me. Every good thing attempted ended up in new abuse. I feel I'm such a disgusting thing that if I do something good for a change it'll undo a tiny bit of all my horrible actions that brought me here to this point, where my abuse is beyond anything I read in any book or have tools to deal with. So I work on this job order. And on the org. about to be launched with fireworks and the lot. No one involved in it has any idea how its founder is doing.

My body is still dying but too slowly. Still I don't know if there's a way to tolerate the present for me. My F attacking me both personally and publicly nationally and turning my NC into... something that is beyond vile. Beyond gaslighting. My other abusers doing exactly the same is hard too but it's my F's public abuse that broke me.
I understand him. He's just doing what sadists do. His behavior is logical for him. It's just that I don't know if I have to take more and more and more pain just to try to make sense of senseless pain to begin with. Is there no mercy for me?

I guess I feel an obligation to do these couple of things which are technical. I have no support system and I guess I now believe it really is because I don't deserve one. Some people are liked; I'm not in that group. I'm admired for my ideas and abilities, I used to be anyway. Admired / hated / attacked / competed with 'etc. But never helped or liked. Well, that and people are what they are. Those who aren't constantly abused are lucky. I have nothing wiser to add about being a person among people. This has broken me. I thought I was struggling before this but I didn't realize how much worse it could be. The "difficult" of a couple of months ago was light weight.

Sorry if I said nothing meaningful.

P.S please, no hugs... I do appreciate them but I can't take them right now. If you have thoughts on how to try to manage the unmanageable I'd deeply appreciate it. But to be perfectly honest I just hate myself more when people here offer me hugs. Words good. Hugs too triggering for my current self hatred. Sorry.

I appreciate it, can't even say how much.
But to be honest, I don't see what you see.

It isn't a smear campaign of people saying things about me, well it certainly is now but to begin with it's supposedly me saying them myself, nationally. I supposedly am behind the words. There's nothing to turn off. I might as well turn myself off. (Oh if I could.) I did it to myself. I'm beyond an idiot. I could have said no, I could have walked away from this hell. I deserve it.
I don't have words strong enough to say how much I hate myself. I do have use for self hatred. Hatred sometimes fits when a person is despicable enough, which is precisely what aaaaaaall of my abusers are seeing in me now. A person who is stupid enough to attack themselves deserves hatred. I don't deserve any hugs. Hugs are for people who are hurt, not for people who idiotically hurt themselves then say they feel pain.

I have no one to support me and no one to trust, no. Who would that be? That's how it is when you're a waste of oxygen, I guess.
No one ever saw the truth of my abusers or me and no one ever will in my case. I guess maybe there is no truth to be seen. I'm just what I seem to be, no more no less.

Each day is getting worse, not better. Why should it get better? The one thing I had was my small sliver of self dignity and I destroyed it myself. I don't deserve compassion.
Why does life have to be such hell. Why can't it be less sadistic. What have I done to everybody to deserve more and more pain. Obviously self hatred is in place.

Having an Exceptionally Difficult Day / Smear campaign from hell of hells
« on: September 17, 2018, 08:31:46 PM »
Haven't been here in a while. Had no fight left in me really.

A few days ago things got much much worse. Can't elaborate but, in short, I'm exposed and gaslighted on a level that you could call national. FOO's / others' lies, smear campaigns and abuse is validated beyond their wildest dreams.
It's something that I volunteered for like an idiot, was sold the line "If you participate it'll help others" ... had no relation to trauma or family or anything at all.
Said all the okay things. Talked about completely different stuff. Topic was something else entirely.
Then they gaslighted me to death behind the scenes. Twisted my words, made up unbelievable lies, invented terrible, awful, horrible things I supposedly said about family and how my biggest regret in life is having pushed them away. What a "nice" way to "reframe" NC, I bet FOO really liked that one.
Made me look petty, vindictive, resentful, pitiful, PD deluded. Then it got worse, then worse and worse and worse.
They made me sound like a psychopath.

My abusers have convinced everyone I'm crazy. ThatI'm the one with a PD. My most deeply open wound is being unable to escape this type of hell. Trying to let go being seen that way by flying monkeys. Trying to accept the pain that comes with it. What was done here just said they're all right, I'm exactly what they whispered at me and behind my back all my life. All validated supposedly in my very own words.
And I started getting emails. Not from FOO who are surely relishing it but from past colleagues, all took it the same way. As bad as can be. Saw me as PD. Told me it's been circulating among all flying monkeys like wildfire.
Character assassination from hell doesn't quite cover it.

I'm furious at myself. Can't sleep because nightmares about present events are immediate. Not eating. Not taking meds. Want to be punished so strongly I don't care. The worse the better.
How do you do this. I don't know. I'm sorry. I'd appreciate some wisdom, I have none.

I'm not well so this is short, my apologies...

I'd say everything you described above fits emotional abuse.
I've read some books that describe certain types of abuse as "covert" vs. overt abuse, and it makes sense to me. Violence is violence, it may be covert but that just makes it even more insidious than overt abuse that's physically visible.
I think there's a big blind spot in society re. emotional abuse. But the science shows it's real abuse and it's just as bad as other types of abuse, if not worse. Some research done recently shows that it may even be more harmful than physical/sexual abuse.

Here's a good book about it, specifically about emotional abuse in relationships: Healing from Hidden Abuse: A Journey Through the Stages of Recovery from Psychological Abuse Paperback / Shannon Thomas.

This may be just me but... what you're describing is just how I felt when I tried narrative trauma, and it's the reason I stopped it. It seems to be very good for ptsd, but maybe it isn't always suitable for cptsd.

It's really personal so if it doesn't help you, feel free to ignore it:

In my experience, if I go through a trauma narrative as it is, just the memories of the raw facts of what happened to me without adding in more things, then it's too much. I feel buried under it. Instead of helping me re-integrate my memories and make sense of my life, it just weakens me further. So I stopped doing narrative exercises and I sort of incorporated the narrative viewpoint into a larger scheme. When I go through my trauma narratives now I always add extra things before and after.
For example, I might do this: take a few moments to breathe and try to be in my body (instead of my usual habit of dissociating all the time); then I gently and cautiously go through a specific memory, then I also go through what I'm feeling when I remember that memory (I might give the feelings names: I now feel sad, angry, shocked, disgusted, whatever it may be), and I might add more things like trying to imagine the same thing happening to someone else which helps me feel compassion. I can't feel compassion for myself, but when I imagine the same memory in someone else's life quite often it helps me turn the really heavy sadness, for example, into something softer that's less painful.

Or I might go through the memory and then imagine the people who were in it are sitting next to me now and I talk to them. Calmly, as the person I am today, I tell them what I think about what they did and the impact it had on me.

And other things I've tried. They vary... but in all cases I add extras to the narrative. Otherwise I get the sense my brain can't handle just the narrative on its own.


General Discussion / Re: Feelings of inferiority
« on: August 05, 2018, 08:09:16 PM »
Hi Safetyinnumbers,

I don't know if everyone feels this way, but I definitely feel like you. I feel really inferior to others, and whenever anyone asserts power or superiority I tend to instantly believe them even if they're making it all up.  :Idunno: it's as though I instantly surrender to them even if I know for a fact they're not the superman or superwoman they're trying to convince me they are.

I tried FB briefly but left it and never went back there for this exact reason. It isn't a good place, everyone is trying to sell some story, a made up version of themselves that just left me feeling worse.

I don't know how to change any of it (except leaving social media...) the one thing I've started doing is to notice the dynamics in a conversation when I notice myself trying to be approved and looking like some imaginary version of reality. And I just try to pay attention to that need. I think "Okay, this is silly. The person you're talking to right now isn't even seeing you, they're too busy trying to show you how amazing they are." also, I talk to people who have a hard time, and try to steer away from people who are busy portraying a perfect life. I get closer to people who are in pain or have known pain in their lives. They're more interesting, multi-layered, more mature... and sometimes I can do something to help them out and we both benefit from it in a real way.

Btw the clothes I'm wearing right now are the same ones I've had for 10 years. You're not alone. I've learned to use it as a quick, effective way to know the person in front of me. If they read far too much into my sandals or my t-shirt, I know I may not belong not because I'm not as good as them but because they're boring :whistling:


Friends / Re: Somehow Off-putting?
« on: August 05, 2018, 07:50:23 PM »

I feel exactly the same. Feeling that you somehow bring the worst out of people doesn't sound paranoid at all to me. In my case, it was totally true. I think people with a PD could sense very strongly that I was "preconditioned" and knew how to dance along so they always took advantage of me. But learning about trauma and cptsd and what my body is doing helps me recognize them and keep my distance. I noticed I've stopped being as "juicy" to PD's as I've been before.

I've internalized all the dreadful things I've been attacked with so deeply that I'm sure they're all my fault. But you didn't ridicule yourself, you didn't tell yourself others didn't like you, you were tricked into believing it by people whose brains just weren't screwed on straight while yours is just fine.

It sounds to me a little like part of your caution around people is the normal response to gaslighting. You start out talking to someone you trust (not realizing their pegs are a little loose), believe terrible things they tell you about yourself, then they manage to convince you that you do things you never did, that you're the unhinged one and run off leaving you too confused to know what's true anymore.

And, you know... the people who everyone likes and think are so awesome, who are a lot of fun? They sound to me like potential narcissists or worst. The charisma is often a symptom, not a good quality but a sign of danger. If you feel like you seem to bring out the "bad" in them maybe that's exactly what's going on. You're a PD detector  :bigwink:

Friends / Re: New friendship breakdown
« on: August 05, 2018, 07:35:42 PM »
Hi Debora,

Kizzie asked:
Was this person worthy of my friendship or am I better off looking for healthier relationships?

That's a really good perspective!

I couldn't agree more.
The way I view people has been slowly changing as I learn more about cptsd. Maybe you're changing?

Friends / Re: Being childish and scared
« on: August 05, 2018, 07:16:54 PM »
I agree it sounds like a possible vicious inner critic attack. What he said was so short and could be understood in more than one way but then your inner critic might have hijacked your moment of pleasure and accomplishment and used it against you.
And, I bet you know far better than me how feedback you get from other artists can be weird. Sometimes when the feedback is odd that's an indication you did a good job :Idunno:
Either way, whether others will love your work or not, you're good and nobody's opinion can take that away from you. Not even your inner critic can.

Introductory Post / Re: Misdiagnosis
« on: August 02, 2018, 08:49:58 PM »
Welcome  :heythere:

In my experience, a BPD diagnosis can be an awful thing.
It's sometimes called a "trashcan diagnosis" because at times, when they don't know what's wrong with you they say "Oh! Ok, let's call it BPD" but it's not a neutral diagnosis, it can be stigmatizing and re-traumatizing. Instead of recognizing you're traumatized, that you went through things that weren't normal and reacted to them in the most normal way possible (by developing cptsd), it puts all the blame on your own personality and labels you as incurable, unreliable, imbalanced 'etc. :doh: I have no words to say how bad that can be when it's used to further abuse an abuse victim.

I was misdiagnosed with BPD many years ago by doctors blindly colluding with my abusive family to make sure I was silenced. It did me a lot of harm because it meant no one ever believed me. It was the absolute opposite of what I'd imagine "therapy" or "help" to be like.
It left me with distrust of psychiatrists so I never got a formal diagnosis of cptsd, but I have cptsd and I read about cptsd, trauma and the brain.
I don't need a psychiatrist to tell me what I know about myself and my experience. There are very good books out there now, you can self educate.
But maybe if you're looking for good specialized, informed trauma therapy, then getting the right diagnosis might be very helpful.

I feel like I went my whole life not knowing "what was wrong with me" and now have this clear answer that explains how I have felt always.  It made me realize I am not one person, but in a special population on earth that gets handed childhood tragedies that scar us for life. Finding out that my brain and body is not diseased, but that in reality my horrible symptoms are a NORMAL reaction to traumatic events has given me some ground to stand on. I felt like I was freefalling for a long time into my isolated hell before I found this place.

I couldn't agree more.

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