Private psychiatric assessment results in script for anti-psychotic medication.

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Rainagain

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Instead of forgiveness could you think of it like being bitten by a snake?

You need to heal the bite and try to avoid getting bitten again.

The snake doesn't need your forgiveness, its just being what it is, anger is an OK response in some ways but isn't going to change the snake.

The snake doesn't think, it just bites.

I've spent years trying to work out what exactly happened to me, I'm much better informed now but I'm beginning to think so what? Why have I spent so much time trying to understand my snakes? They are just doing what they do, no other explanation required.

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milk

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Instead of forgiveness could you think of it like being bitten by a snake?

You need to heal the bite and try to avoid getting bitten again.

The snake doesn't need your forgiveness, its just being what it is, anger is an OK response in some ways but isn't going to change the snake.

The snake doesn't think, it just bites.

I've spent years trying to work out what exactly happened to me, I'm much better informed now but I'm beginning to think so what? Why have I spent so much time trying to understand my snakes? They are just doing what they do, no other explanation required.

I am echoing Rainagain —- another term to describe this, is crazy-making. Name it, tame it, claim it —- I read through the posts and this is what I see on the healthy end, from you, and others here. The painting and music are healing for you (this is how you claim your side of this madness), keep at it —- your good intentions will attract the right people to be with. Take care and sending positive thoughts your  way.



« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 03:13:40 AM by milk »

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Libby183

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This has been such a helpful thread for me. It is so relevant to where I am in my life.

I agree with you, the truth, that forgiveness is not the key. My therapist was always telling me how she forgave people, including a very long story about a boundary dispute with a neighbour. But I wonder what that forgiveness really looked like, because in later sessions she mentioned how much she disliked him, but was able to avoid him now he was old and senile. I have no need to forgive my parents, especially as they believe that they were the most perfect of parents. If they asked for forgiveness and accepted that they had damaged me, even unwittingly, I would forgive them but I would not want any relationship with them.

What I have done, is accept and pity them. They were doing what worked for them. Beating me, to relieve her anger, worked for my mother. Shaming and belittling me worked for both of my weak, low self esteem parents. As they said, this is what people do. So you are right, Rain again, there is no point fighting against it. I think the snake analogy is excellent.  It does, however, leave me very wary of people, in general, but I have accepted this, as well. In the past, if someone was unpleasant, unfriendly, whatever, I would try so hard to win them over. Repeating my childhood, over and over. Now, I don't try. I appreciate nice interactions but otherwise, leave people to themselves. What a breakthrough. So much less stress. This especially applies to my in laws, who are somewhat dysfunctional and not especially interested or caring.

I feel so much more hopeful about life at the moment and I am so thankful that I have had this opportunity to talk about these issues. It has really helped me and I hope this applies to you, as well.




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thetruth

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Thank you all for the posts. I made reference to this a couple of days back in a larger post but I want to make it more clearly here.

I want to extend huge gratitude to Kizzie for having the foresight, the composure and the compassion to create this forum. It is a God-send. It is a mine of insight, support and healing. I cant thank you enough Kizzie. You have put people in touch with the people they need to be in touch with.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 03:54:09 PM by thetruth »

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Rainagain

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We are all here to work on our own recoveries, that is right and proper.

But I am concerned that it is sort of easier to get wrapped up in blaming the snakes that bit us and not to seek recovery.

Forgiveness isn't necessary to understand what happened, to protect yourself better from now on and to seek to have a fulfilling life from now on.

Even if the whole world understands and comes to hate your specific snakes as much as you do it doesn't alter the pain of the bite, and it doesn't take away personal responsibility for aiming at recovery.

I am thinking of my last words on my deathbed, do I want those words to be ' I hate snakes they ruined my life' or 'snakes bite and it hurts really bad, but I chose not to let them ruin my whole life'.

There is a choice to be made, the harder choice is the better one, which is a shame but seems to often be true in life.

That's one of the things I appreciate with this forum, we have either already made the hard choice or are seeking enough encouragement to make the hard choice.

Personally, I joined this forum not knowing what had happened to me at all, I think I've learned enough here to see the choices and I have chosen the right one, its a pity its so tough, but oh well, challenge accepted.

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thetruth

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Hi Rainagain,

This might be like going over old ground.  All the same, I need to go over it as it is still a live problem- it isnt over. Today I occupied myself by cutting up fallen tree branches with a chainsaw.

I was acutely aware of how I could not think about anything other than the unfairness of my past (as usual). Even though I was busy for several hours, my mind seems to be fully preoccupied with the injustices I faced. The thinking generally takes the form of me designing sentences to communicate to my doctor the unfairness of his practice in relation to me.

This is energy demanding. It is actually still a form of stress. 

How do I get my mind to think about something else? Surely you have your own preoccupations too?

This is still the last thing I think about at night and the first thing I think about in the morning, without exception. I think I might have to accept that this is going to be my reality for the rest of my life.

(Yes I am definitely going over old ground. Just recently we talked about the being stuck syndrome. )

In this video from youtube Jordan Peterson makes reference to this kind of preoccupation at 18.22. Im sure you have watched this video before. I cannot think about anything other than the abuse of power that I faced, I think I am more hurt by the betrayal by my doctor because he knew better and I trusted him. You see it is easy for me to view my employer as a snake- he was protecting himself from prosecution. But for a man of integrity to assist a workplace bully and to carry out defamatory misrepresentation of the truth in order to avoid personal inconvenience, I am not coping with that. This is the bit I cannot swallow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJ5tMoilvM

Right now I feel that my best hope for a better quality of life, and progression towards some type of recovery lies in frequent physical exercise. Is that what you mean by deciding to recover? Forcing yourself into healing action, or potentially healing action? The whole thing is sometimes very tiring.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 11:46:02 PM by thetruth »

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Rainagain

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Hi

That is a great Jordan P clip right there.

I didn't know you are still in the middle of things, I thought your employment issues were 5 Years ago.

Mine ended 2 years ago but I've managed to keep it alive and damaging myself  through the court case, I do wonder if that idea came from a healthy place, possibly not.

I've been ruminating obsessively over what happened, just as described in the clip.

Maybe its part of recovery if it leads to an understanding.

I think that might be true.

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thetruth

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In the past, if someone was unpleasant, unfriendly, whatever, I would try so hard to win them over. Repeating my childhood, over and over. Now, I don't try. I appreciate nice interactions but otherwise, leave people to themselves. What a breakthrough. So much less stress. This especially applies to my in laws, who are somewhat dysfunctional and not especially interested or caring.

I feel so much more hopeful about life at the moment and I am so thankful that I have had this opportunity to talk about these issues. It has really helped me and I hope this applies to you, as well.

Hi Libby,

It sounds like you had a horrific childhood at the hands of two people who maybe were not parent material.... not 'good enough' parents, as Pete Walker would suggest?

Im sorry you have been afflicted the way you are. I'm also sorry that you are coming up against the same inadequacy in the health service.

I wonder was I doing the same thing as you describe when I tried so hard to gain the approval of my abusive boss? I too was convinced I was unacceptable by my own parents- its the very reason I have always struggled so much with self acceptance. I had a great aptitude for the work I was doing under this particular boss. Everyone could see how well I was doing it. The boss insisted on finding faults though- so I bust a gut to achieve perfection, to try to get his approval. I now know that wasnt possible.

I had felt so unacceptable all my life thanks to my parents, that when I finally found something that I did extraordinarily well, it was precious to me. I just wanted basic approval for my efforts but my boss was threatened by my competence and he made my life hell.

Trying to get approval in life has been a costly business. Had it been delivered correctly by the people who were supposed to do it for us at the start, our lives would have been very different. We would not have been so desperate for it from the wrong sources.

Lets try to work on inner approval? They say it is the only type that really matters.

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thetruth

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Instead of forgiveness could you think of it like being bitten by a snake?

You need to heal the bite and try to avoid getting bitten again.

The snake doesn't need your forgiveness, its just being what it is, anger is an OK response in some ways but isn't going to change the snake.

The snake doesn't think, it just bites.

I've spent years trying to work out what exactly happened to me, I'm much better informed now but I'm beginning to think so what? Why have I spent so much time trying to understand my snakes? They are just doing what they do, no other explanation required.

I am echoing Rainagain - another term to describe this, is crazy-making. Name it, tame it, claim it - I read through the posts and this is what I see on the healthy end, from you, and others here. The painting and music are healing for you (this is how you claim your side of this madness), keep at it - your good intentions will attract the right people to be with. Take care and sending positive thoughts your  way.

Hi Milk,

Thanks for the positive encouragement. I finished a painting last night. It isnt a masterpiece but its a stepping stone. Each one is. My brother is a professional artist and he says all I have to do to become good, is do 100s of paintings. He is right. Other artists on youtube say a similar thing- when you are watching a proficient artist work their magic, you are oblivious to all the failed attempts and countless hours of work that they have done to get to where they are.

I am really taking on board Rainagain's advice here about making a decision to recover. When I first read it I read it from a defeated viewpoint which was- 'I have already made the decision countless times and I have still been reduced to pain due to various triggering experiences.'

However, now that I have had a little more time to think about it, I believe Rainagain has thought this through well and has drawn good conclusions. The point being, it doesnt really matter that the decision to recover might have to be made many times, as long as it isnt dropped as a consequence of retriggering experiences.

The snakes that bit me dont give a toss if I struggle for the rest of my days. It would give weight to their lies if I just self destructed and lived a pathetic or tragic existence.

I must make it my decision and my focus to take the best care of myself so that my recovery to a place of emotional well being can happen as quickly as possible. Ive already cut out smoking and drinking but those are only foundations I feel. Now I must do my brain a big favour and get an exercise habit.

I found this youtube video useful. The woman says exercise can regenerate the hippocampus. The way I see it, my brain has been adversely affected for much of the past 20 years by 3 things- stress, alcohol and tobacco use. I know my brain is not as healthy as it would have been if there hadnt been so much stress, alcohol and tobacco use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHY0FxzoKZE

Right now I have to be aware of this so that I can arrest damage to my brain and focus on taking better care of it. I am looking into better diet, more exercise and I simply must practice meditation.

This is my new decision to recover. This is another attempt to introduce 'inputs' to break the downward cycle of the negative rumination loop as discussed by Rainagain in this thread.

I am very clear on one thing- if I drink alcohol I am choosing to be retriggered. I simply cannot go there. I tried it again a few weeks ago after 10 weeks dry. I was badly retriggered. I am now over 3 weeks dry again.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 11:48:09 AM by thetruth »

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thetruth

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.........I have just been able to put into words, in the most accurate way yet, the nature of the difficulty I was subjected to in my place of work. I have recorded it in my phone as a text to myself. I will share it later. It is remarkable how these experiences can be so complex and challenging to convey, that it can take 5 years of attempting to describe them before you get anywhere close to a true appraisal of what actually happened.

In the past 5 years I have poured thousands of paragraphs into my phone as texts to myself, to reduce the stress in my head. I have just discovered a true description of what happened to me. In a nutshell, it was 'ME V lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies'

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thetruth

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I didn't know you are still in the middle of things, I thought your employment issues were 5 Years ago.


Hi Rainagain,

My employment issues were from Jan 2009 to  August 2013. I have confused you, sorry! The job is over, the initial betrayal by the doctor is 5 years old. The psychological injury is ongoing. That is all that I meant by saying the issues are still live and not over. It is over for them, not for me.

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Libby183

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Hi, again.

Excellent stuff about deciding to improve your well being, and ways to do this. I really endorse the commitment to exercise. Walking with my dog really makes a huge difference for me.

I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of working on inner approval. I really believe that if you don't get acceptance of yourself and everything that you are, as a child, you will just carry on looking and looking, often in the wrong places. I am definitely getting better at this. I am doing things for myself without asking my family for reassurance or approval. It can be hard, but I am getting better at it.

You got it absolutely right. Our abusers aren't bothered if we have a rotten life. I am sure my parents think that that's what I deserve. So, yes, let's aim for this good enough life! I am starting to get a sense of what this could look like, and I get the impression, that you are too.

Good luck to all of us.

Libby.

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thetruth

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Hi Libby,

Good Luck to us all indeed! You are right, I am on a good train of thought right now. This forum has helped me to achieve it.

Yesterday I had a breakthrough in my ability to comprehend the exact nature of the stress that I went through in that job and today I had another 'light bulb moment' on the back of yesterdays new awareness. I find it interesting that only in the past 2 days I watched talks by Jordan Peterson on youtube and in one of these he stated that, after you have been the victim of malevolence you wont be able to think about anything else until you figure it out.

Well that is exactly how I perceive my situation. I have not been able to think about anything else for 5 years. My mind has been obsessed with the injustice and I find myself thinking about it whether I like it or not, day in, day out, year in, year out!

The new comprehension that I have arrived at yesterday and today is for the moment giving me a sense of relief and some much overdue respite from the constant rumination.

You know when something just makes thorough, authentic sense on a very intuitive level? I have had 2 great hits of that in the past 2 days. I feel great relief.

Ill make it short- The stress that I underwent at work was not just because I was being bullied. I was carrying out their most demanding job while they refused to acknowledge that it was demanding. I had the opposite of the support that I should have had considering the nature of the work. It was patently clear that they would never acknowledge the truth on this. So I had to make a sacrifice in order to protect my job. I had to forgo the expectation of my employer honouring this truth in order to keep my job and to not annoy them with a truth they were unwilling to acknowledge.

I had to pretend their fictitious reality was the truth for the sake of a sort of peace with them. This weighed very very heavy in time.

All the time I was allowing them the indulgence of this fictitious reality, they were indulging another huge fictitious reality, at my expense. After initially admitting that the boss was known for a rotten attitude towards workers, his no.1 manager back tracked and together they established the lie that I was being unreasonable when I stood up for myself against disgusting bad manners/systematic criticism. They showed me in no uncertain terms, that the truth was of zero relevance in relation to this and that they would decide, in order with their own interests, what the truth was.

Again, in order to keep my job and to try to not rock the boat with them, I had to accede to their fictitious stance on this.

So while I was allowing them to cultivate fictitious realities on those 2 huge matters, in order to not jeopardise my job security, they went one further. The boss skillfully identified material, comments and actions by me that he could use to belittle and ridicule me with to other staff. Basically he set out to establish that I was an idiot and a source of silly comical behaviour and statements. This was because I had had the nerve to challenge his behaviour in the past and the more he could remove my credibility, the safer he would feel that no one would believe or care for my grievances.

All of this was at my expense. It wasnt long before I was displaying very surprising emotional dysregulation as I worked under this climate of lies, lies and more lies. I lost it several times as the boss visited me with stupidity and pettiness that it would take too long to describe here.

My stress was a product of my having to allow them to bullishly deny the truth on various fronts, my thanks for which was to be ridiculed and defamed in a systematic manner behind the scenes, as I continued to do work vastly more demanding than any other job in the place, for no extra pay. I hope this makes sense. So this was yesterdays moment of clarity- the stress developed from their privileged refusal to honour the truth on a range of points.

Today I realised that up until the time when my employer was given permission by me to speak to my doctor, they really didnt know what they were going to do about me. They knew my grievances were based in fact. They knew the boss had been gravely in error and they werent sure how things were going to go.

I invited in my life long GP due to desperation, stress and exhaustion, 3.5 years into the job. It dawned on me today, that it was only when my GP became involved that my employer found his route out of the mess with no consequence for himself. Until that point they could not have known to what degree my GP understood the situation and to what degree he might support me. They were, to some extent, walking a tightrope before my doctor became involved. After that however, they got the crucial information that had until that point been inaccessible. My doctor has communicated in some fashion that he would not stand in the way of my redundancy and they have become emboldened. I know it intuitively as I lived through it and I can understand the whole process when I reflect on the experience.

My doctor provided them with the confidence they needed to execute a putrid, lie ridden wrongful selection for redundancy, something they did not think was a safe option until they got speaking to him. 

Libby Im sorry if this is tedious but I want to record it when it is freshly realised.

As Jordan Peterson said, after being faced with malevolence, your mind will not let something go until it can make some sense of it.

I think I might be about to experience a release from painful rumination. Things make sense and that offers a chance of mental relief.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 01:01:00 AM by thetruth »

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Rainagain

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As Milk said, name it/tame it/Claim it.

You need a coherent narrative that makes sense so you can name it.

I have that and it has taken some of the pain away, its an important step.

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Libby183

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Agree with absolutely everything you say.

CBT tells you that ruminating is unhelpful, so going over things in my head always made me feel bad and shameful and guilty. All those emotions my parents forced onto me.  But then, like you say, I read that traumatised people need to do this, in order to make sense of it. This seems to be where we are at, and this is a safe place to do that, so don't worry about going over things in detail. I think that's what we are here for.

Interesting you say about making sense of your situation with your employer, and the role of your GP. That rings so true for me too. Phoning my parents after so many years of no contact and telling them that I hated them, helped me make sense of things. Everything they said confirmed the narrative that I had put together to explain the way I am and how I feel. I re-experienced all of the feelings I had had as a child and young adult. I knew that I hadn't imagined it, that these people are truly toxic to me, and really don't care at all. That way, I could let go of the guilt and shame for not loving them. Both my parents, other people and the whole of society have guilted me for so long, for this lack of love and respect. But now I can truly accept that there is no reason for me to love them. My mother is, I believe, so damaged that she is incapable of love. Her love for my father is actually extreme co-dependency. They have each other, which is best for them. Neither me nor my children did, or ever could make them happy.  They are text book cases of a NPD/borderline mother and enabling father - who has become increasingly toxic, to keep mother happy.

The parallel in our different areas of trauma is the pain of having our truth denied, so vigorously and for so long.  But we have our truth now, so we are moving on. Not to say that we won't want to go over things, here and in our heads, but we have our truth. We understand the malevolent behaviour we have been subjected to, and we are moving on.

Hoping that the painting is progressing. I am "renovating" my staircase and finding it very rewarding. I didn't even ask my husband for approval, which is quite something for me.

All the best,

Libby.