(POLL #1) Change "complex" to "cumulative"

[LaurelLeaves]

It would make more sense. 

I've read were a therapist didn't take C-PTSD seriously because they thought that all PTSD was complex.  But that's not what it means.

[woodsgnome]

 

Makes a lot more sense to separate it out like that; one of those apples and oranges comparisons in some respects. I've never been a fan of 'dis'order either--too bad the words used sound like this is some horrible stigma, on top of the rest of it.

[sanmagic7]

i agree with both of you.  so many of these diagnostic words focus on what's 'wrong' with the individual instead of the strengths, determination, courage, etc. - in other words, what's 'right' with us.  we've survived so much with so little knowledge, info, and understanding.  that counts for a lot.

[Wife#2]

Also, the idea of cumulative is more to the point. It isn't one incident. It's the cumulative effect of many smaller incidents (for some, all were huge - such a tragedy). And the power of those incidents is multiplied exponentially the longer and worse those incidents were.

To me, a way to get others to understand is that a regular foot soldier may end up with PTSD after surviving an explosion. That's bad, that's real and that will take time to recover from. However, the soldier who was held prisoner and tortured will certainly suffer from PTSD, but it will have deeper elements than the explosion survivor. Because it isn't one incident, it's a series of incidents that built up over time while the ability to flee the abuser was not possible. When finally free of the captor, that soldier has a much more cumulative effect to his PTSD.

Since most people still only see PTSD as a military situation, I think of it in those terms to explain to others.

[Kizzie]

What about short term and long term psychological trauma injury (STPTI and LTPTI), or even short term and long term psychological traumatic stress disorder (STPTSD and LTPTSDI)? 

They don't exactly roll off the tongue though 

[ah]

"Cumulative" is perfect. It makes much better sense to me than "complex", it requires less explaining. Plus they're both C so the c-ptsd can stay in place.

Not sure about short term / long term, because ptsd can be very long term in result though the cause is short term. So if it's from the viewpoint of the cause then c-ptsd is more long term, if it's result then I sadly come from a country with a lot of ptsd and I see people struggling with it for life.

I have so much to learn about trauma but for now I get the feeling the main difference between ptsd and c-ptsd may be that c-ptsd goes much more deeply into our sense of self. We lose who we were, or never even got to be in the first place. We're not traumatized because something happened to us, we're traumatized because we've been taught, by people we trusted, to become our own worst enemy.

The way I imagine it is as though ptsd is on a certain volume of trauma, and c-ptsd turns ptsd up and makes it even more powerful. Yay...

[Sceal]

I read earlier today that there are high chances that complex ptsd will get its own diagnosis code in ICD-11 thats under revision now and should be released early 2018.
Maybe this will be helpful for those of us whos healthcare system uses ICD rather than DSM-V.

Finding out about this I also noticed there are different requirements from getting the PTSD diagnosis between ICD-10 and DSM-V. Thats interessting.

[LittleBird]

I would support this too.

Everyone is complex. This word in itself doesn't describe anything new for a person with an everyday perception of PTSD.

Cumulative is a better descriptor. Someone tell ICD-11.

[Sceal]

What does Cumulative mean?

[LittleBird]

Gradually building over time.

[Sceal]

Gradually building over time.

Thank you

[Kizzie]

I saw a term "psychotrauma" in something I was reading recently.  It was used to distinguish it from physiological trauma (e.g., bad accident).  So perhaps cumulative psychotrauma?   

[LittleBird]

My thoughts are the word psycho has negative connotations. I don't think that would be easy to accept, explain or understand.

"Cumulative psychological injury"

Might be easier to communicate to people who haven't experienced it, or can't easily understand the damaging effects of long term trauma. 

[I like vanilla]

Cumulative does seem to make more sense than complex.

I am also in the camp that argues for 'injury' rather than 'disorder'. I use the analogy - if I had been hit in the leg by a club, no one would say 'you have a bone disorder' they would say 'you have a leg injury/broken leg bone (implying INJURY rather than disorder)'. Walking poorly, or even not being able to walk, expressing pain, etc. would be signs that I have an injury not a disorder. Well, someone whacked me in my emotions and psychological well-being with a club. Why is this injury suddenly now called a disorder? Additionally, 'injury' indicates 'was done to me' and also 'with treatment will heal (not always back to normal but to 'good' and 'good enough)'. Disorder, at least in the culture where I live, means 'crazy' (and we know there is nothing inherently wrong with being 'crazy' but the surrounding culture has not gotten there yet), 'taboo', and worst 'shake it off, lazy person' while somehow also contradictorily meaning 'stuck with it forever even with treatment'.

Finally, really shame on the therapist who dismisses the different reality of those with C-PSTD (and I try to not 'shame on' anyone so you know I mean it here). That is such an abusive form of gaslighting   . It would be no different that that person speaking to someone with a compound fractures in their leg and saying 'I don't know why people are making a big deal about your leg and needing surgery for it, other people have sprained their ankles and that is painful too.'.

[Kizzie]

I agree Etymon, it could come across as quite negative, at least to those not in the field of mental health.

"Cumulative psychological injury" I like including "injury" over "disorder" I Like Vanilla.  We were basically "whacked" in the psyche and our reactions are normal to the trauma inflicted.  "Disorder" does pathologize us rather than putting the emphasis on what we endured.

That said, I  wonder if leaving out "trauma" and "disorder" might lead to us being taken less seriously than we already are now    I guess what I'm wondering is that although this term might be more accurate and destigmatizing for us (which is a good thing as we are at the centre of this afterall), how would those in the mental health field and other stakeholders (govt) perceive it? Would it be less "worthy" of attention, treatment,  services, etc? 

On the other hand (just musing/dreaming here as I write  ), it would be quite something for us as a community to push for and achieve a change in the diagnosis so that it better reflects how we think and feel about having CPTSD.