How do you tell the difference between self hatred and regret?

[ah]

Regret is important to me, being able to take responsibility for my actions and even my huge mistakes  
I've made enormous mistakes and things I regret so deeply. So many of them were as I was being manipulated by abusers but I regret them. I do things every day that I regret. Without regret it feels as though I stay locked in self denial and I can't really appreciate the good either... or change and learn.

But I noticed I'm really bad at it.
I slide far too easily from regret to my inner critic, self hatred and blame and guilt. I can't quite tell the difference between regret and blame.
I sit down and try to recognize a mistake or a habit I'd like to change and Wham! it turns from what I did to who I am and I'm lost again in self hatred and blame, feeding all my inner monsters.

How do you feel regret without feeding self hatred? How do you tell the difference?
What helps you? What works?

[sanmagic7]

hey, ah, i think regret is a product of maturation.  as babies, we don't regret anything we do because we don't have a clear-cut sense of self and others.   our brains/minds haven't matured to that level yet.  it's not until we learn a sense of right and wrong, intention and carelessness, that we can even get a handle on what regret means.

on the other hand, as babies we don't have a sense of self-hatred, blame, or guilt.  i believe that's because we intrinsically love ourselves, know that we belong here, and know that we deserve to have our needs met.  we are born loving ourselves, deserving care.  that's a survival mechanism.

self-hatred (and these are all only my opinions) is something forced upon us by voices and actions louder and stronger than our own.  guilt is a manipulation used against us in order to make someone else feel better, a way to coerce us into doing something we don't really want to do.

self-blame, i think, is something we often use as self-punishment.  there are things we are responsible for doing, which we can blame ourselves for (whether it's positive or negative), but i believe this needs to be in context of the situation or relationship.  fighting for our lives, we may do things that we wouldn't ordinarily do (i include fighting for our sanity here).  the same with living with threats or coercion, or any kind of mind-control stuff, anytime we're dependent on another for our health and well-being.

i do think these things need to be teased apart to find the root of them.  in that way, we can more clearly see what is truly our fault and what we've done because we felt we had to or some terrible consequences would befall us.  when we're put in insane circumstances and expected to perform insane acts,  that's not our fault.  the blame, shame, guilt, responsibility lie with someone else.

don't know if this is helpful.  just some thoughts that crossed my mind.  it can all be terribly confusing, for sure.  it's helped me to do this process of who is responsible in order to get out from under the horrible feelings of blame, shame, and guilt.  i'll take responsibility for what i did out of choice, but not for what i did out of coercion or emotional/mental control held by another.   

i regret some of what i did, but in as healthy a way as possible, and make amends for those things when it's appropriate.   i think that's all we can do.  big hug, ah, filled with clarity and self-acceptance.

[I like vanilla]

For me, it sounds as if you might be touching on the difference between guilt (regret) and shame (self-hatred)*...

From my perspective:

When guilt speaks it says 'you did something wrong, it would be a good idea if you were to try and atone for it'. Guilt assumes you are a reasonable person who sometimes undertakes inappropriate behaviours.
E.g. guilt might say 'when you called your friend an idiot you hurt her feelings. It would be a good idea to apologize to her and try to make amends'. It might also agree that you would never have called your friend an idiot if you had not also been in a bad mood because your boss yelled at you unfairly in front of you coworkers.

When shame speaks, it says 'there is something inherently bad and flawed about you as a person, so of course you behaved badly (it is only to be expected from someone like you).'
Using the above example shame would say 'you hurt your friend's feelings. You are a horrible friend and horrible person. Your friend will hate you now. Everyone hates you anyway. It was only a matter of time until your friend hated you too. Really, how could anyone like you? You are horrible!'. You do not deserve to have friends' (and so on)

UGH! apologies for the above, I feel icky for having written it and reading it over. But, it is for the purposes of comparison and contrast between guilt and shame.

For me, guilt draws our attention to bad behaviours and helps us to behave in appropriate, positive ways, having compassion for us as fallible human beings. It also helps us to live in agreement with our consciences by helping to stop us from behaving badly and encouraging us to try to make amends when we do behave badly. It recognizes that as humans we will inevitably make mistakes but holds our Selves separate from our actions, assumes we are good people despite our occasional missteps, and leads us in the direction of more consistently undertaking appropriate, positive actions that help to connect us to others and to our Selves. Guilt also assumes we are generally good people who can learn from mistakes and try atone for them.

Shame, on the other hand, insists that we are inherently flawed that our bad actions are equated with our character (conveniently ignoring or dismissing all of our good actions), and that we can do no right, and usually (always) will do wrong. It prevents us from learning from our mistakes (because we truly can do no right anyway), and from making amendments for actions that we have done that have hurt others. Shame bullies us into hiding from those we could apologize to and make up with, and isolates us from supportive others. It tells us lies about who we are as people, exaggerating minor transgressions into major character flaws, and insisting that we are so flawed that we, and everyone around us, would be better off hiding our inherently-horrible selves away from the world. Shame separates us from others and our Selves.

My sense, and this is just guessing and speculation on my part, is that guilt is something we have internally but that shame is something that has been imposed upon and inserted into us by others (generally unhealthy, abusive others). Guilt serves us but shame serves those others.

For me, guilt is a basic feeling that we all (except some of the Cluster Bs) have. It helps us to live well in our social groups. We have consciences and, in turn, guilt because humans are generally social creatures, and as such we need to be aware of the ways that our behaviours impact those around us. Our consciences and ability to feel guilt (and also accomplishment, satisfaction, and joy) help us to behave in moral ways in our social settings. As part of our consciences guilt also encourages allows us to have good boundaries, so that we can tune into our sense of what is right and what is wrong. Guilt and conscience also allow us to recognize when others are treating us badly - to recognize when they ought to feel guilty about their behaviours toward us.

For me, shame, in contrast, is a learned response imposed upon us by others, often our earliest caregivers. Shame serves no purpose to us, and is actually detrimental to us; an impulse to separate us from our Selves and from others (especially give that we are essentially social creatures) can only be destructive to us. We are taught shame by those who benefit from keeping us (co-)dependent, compliant, and subservient to those teaching us to be ashamed of ourselves (and our Selves). When we feel shamed by the supposed terribleness of our Selves, then we feel that no one could ever love us for who we are, which in turn, forces us to seek love from those 'generous enough to care for us despite how horrible we are' and so we continue to trauma bond with those who abuse us because we have been taught that these individuals are the only ones who will 'love' us. We also learn that because we are inherently flawed, unlovable, and unworthy of love and happiness (all messages from shame) we must continue to strive to 'earn' the love of those around us, particularly those who taught us the shame in the first place and those who will use our people-pleasing tendencies to their own advantages.

Guilt focuses on actions and encourages and prompts us to behave in moral ways that match our consciences, ways that will bring us closer to our Selves and to the people around us. Although sometimes misguided, guilt focuses on our well-being. Shame focuses on the flaws (real, exaggerated, or completely false) that we have in ourselves and tells us that it is hopeless to try and overcome these flaws. Shame separates us from our Selves and others and prompts us to behave in 'love-earning' ways that serve those who taught us to feel ashamed of ourselves and to hide our Selves away from those who might otherwise be supportive of us. Shame focuses on the well-being of others to the detriment of our Selves.

Guilt is a natural, internal part of being human; it is part of our consciences which can let us know when we are behaving badly but as part of our consciences can also allow us to feel proud of ourselves when we, for example, help someone else. Shame is an externally-imposed (though unfortunately often internalized) tumour on our emotions and psychological functioning, usurping their intended purposes and our well-beings. Shame aims  to keep us feeling horrible about our Selves no matter the circumstances or our behaviours.



*At first, I felt self-conscience because it seemed (seems) as if I am contradicting sanmagic7, especially because I have read sanmagic7's comments on many other posts and usually agree with the comments and always have respect for her. But then I realized that we actually are talking about the same thing just using different semantics. For me, guilt-trips, guilt projected on us by others, etc. are all still called 'guilt' (I use the expression guilt-trip myself). But here, I am speaking of guilt generated from internal sources. This type of negative feeling coming from someone else is more in the shame-realm for me. Ah English, what a beautiful, versatile, and often frustrating language... 

[woodsgnome]

I wrestle with this constantly. Regardless of circumstances, I often revert to feeling regretful about something (and it can involve the tiniest detail, real or imagined), then blame myself for no justifiable reason. It's totally bizarre but very ingrained and thus even harder to get rid of. It's like I wear a sign: Need Someone to Blame? I'm Available.

I'm not sure the solution is a to-do one as much as a be-yourself one (your true self). The only thing that seems practical en route to being yourself is to keep building self-compassion and self-love to the point where it overrides the tendency to consider unjustified regret and self-blame as anything more than false outriders to your true self.

Along those lines I have a little mantra I recite, if I remember it before my mind-games and fears take over. Silently I'll say on the in-breath 'peace'; on the out-breath 'love'; or vice versa. This mental hug can be supplemented with an actual self-hug if possible.

Knowing that love and peace are unconditional with no qualifiers--they just are; and that I'm a part of each can, for me at least, deflect the tendency towards self-regret and blame. But on even more general terms, it's a little mantra that seems to lighten the load of worry, guilt, blame, and all the rest. All coming back to building the self-compassion.

It's all--sigh--a work in progress, like so much else. One of those 1,001 things we need to un-learn if we are to come close to thriving with this leftover sludge. The worst is it all stems from the lies we took in because we didn't know better.

Here's to less regret and getting away from self-blame.