Some new old material

[Three Roses]

I've seen several posts recently that could be about boundary violations as a cause of CPTSD; this is an excellent article on defining what a boundary violation is, why it injures us, and how to recover.  The entire article is here - http://www.new-synapse.com/aps/wordpress/?p=1911

Here's an excerpt:

The swimming pool and the car.
It's like this. Imagine you set up a nice swimming pool in your yard, the kind with the tall circular wall and blue lining. Then suddenly a car runs into your swimming pool and the walls break and all the water falls out all over the lawn. Then someone comes up to you and asks, "Do you want this swimming pool lining patch? It's a really nice one. When my rose bush dropped a branch into my pool and it scratched the lining, I patched it right up with this! It's a great way to take care of yourself. It feels so nice to take a little time for self-care. And the pool lining will be so beautiful, too!"

The problem is, at that level of boundary violation there really is no swimming pool lining anymore. It's irrelevant. The car needs to be towed. And that life needs rebuilding.

This is the problem with Self-care lists for me at the moment. Some items are like the swimming pool liner patch. These suggestions, like "take a bath" or "take some alone time," are great. The only problem is, for some people there is a car sitting in the middle of their pool, destroying their entire life and draining all the water out of it every day. Or, there recently was a car there and it's all still wrecked and hasn't healed yet. Everything is so wrong there is no boundary – no swimming pool walls – anymore to protect. There is just a lot of destruction and the boundaries are all gone.  When there is no more container (swimming pool wall), and abuse and trauma (the car) has destroyed self-esteem, voice, personal convictions, one's grasp on one's own ideas and desires, then there is no more "self" (all the water). If the self is lost, where do you put the self-care?

[M.R.]

Wow I really like the excerpt that you took and posted. Will have to read the article. Thanks. (:

MR

[BlancaLap]

I've seen several posts recently that could be about boundary violations as a cause of CPTSD; this is an excellent article on defining what a boundary violation is, why it injures us, and how to recover.  The entire article is here - http://www.new-synapse.com/aps/wordpress/?p=1911

Here's an excerpt:

The swimming pool and the car.
It's like this. Imagine you set up a nice swimming pool in your yard, the kind with the tall circular wall and blue lining. Then suddenly a car runs into your swimming pool and the walls break and all the water falls out all over the lawn. Then someone comes up to you and asks, "Do you want this swimming pool lining patch? It's a really nice one. When my rose bush dropped a branch into my pool and it scratched the lining, I patched it right up with this! It's a great way to take care of yourself. It feels so nice to take a little time for self-care. And the pool lining will be so beautiful, too!"

The problem is, at that level of boundary violation there really is no swimming pool lining anymore. It's irrelevant. The car needs to be towed. And that life needs rebuilding.

This is the problem with Self-care lists for me at the moment. Some items are like the swimming pool liner patch. These suggestions, like "take a bath" or "take some alone time," are great. The only problem is, for some people there is a car sitting in the middle of their pool, destroying their entire life and draining all the water out of it every day. Or, there recently was a car there and it's all still wrecked and hasn't healed yet. Everything is so wrong there is no boundary – no swimming pool walls – anymore to protect. There is just a lot of destruction and the boundaries are all gone.  When there is no more container (swimming pool wall), and abuse and trauma (the car) has destroyed self-esteem, voice, personal convictions, one's grasp on one's own ideas and desires, then there is no more "self" (all the water). If the self is lost, where do you put the self-care?

I relate to this, this is something I have thought myself of.

[Gromit]

Thank you Three Roses.

I hid the need for care so much when I was growing up, all kinds of things, some that could have done with medical attention. This blog explains why.

G

[Dee]

I remember this one, it really helped me.  It felt spot on.

[Blueberry]

I've seen several posts recently that could be about boundary violations as a cause of CPTSD; this is an excellent article on defining what a boundary violation is, why it injures us, and how to recover. 

Here's an excerpt:

If the self is lost, where do you put the self-care?

On other people, on pets, on OOTS, on work.

That's me. I don't have my pets anymore, but it doesn't mean I'm caring for myself any better.

It's still good that I'm taking a break from moderating, but it's not easy. That was a daily task. A reason to be. My brain is too mushy for moderating atm anyway.

[Blueberry]

From a different part of the same article:

"Trauma destroys boundaries. If a person is in a situation in which their boundaries are too deeply invaded, they may lose the ability to feel or sense their boundaries anymore. If their voice is completely silenced, they won't know what they want to say no to and what they want to say yes to. If they have been through this kind of situation too many times, they may find it impossible to formulate in their mind what would be a healthy boundary and what would not be, and by extension, they may have trouble knowing what constitutes self-care and what doesn't.

Example – Narcissistic Abuse

An example of this type of situation is being in a relationship with a narcissist.

The narcissistic personality has already invaded SO far beyond what is in any way, shape or form appropriate that from this level of being invaded, it's going to be impossible to understand anything about boundaries, because they were all crossed so far and so long ago."

I was offline for a few days but this swimming pool image came back in my head during that time. Not about the patch and self-care but that FOO drove my walls down, and when I'm faced with FOO it still feels like they're mowing me down and I can't do anything about it. So that must be an EF. Brain kind of went fuzzy and I couldn't think of any reason to tell FOO member I didn't want to be involved in phone call, except I got to speak to the little kids. But that would have been possible without a lengthy listening to adult FOO member.

But yeah, it's in the quote: my boundaries were crossed so far and so long ago that I let it happen again. In fact, it's so bad that in the past this FOO member has even asked if s/he was saying too much, after mowing the wall down, and I answered that I was so upset already s/he might as well continue, which s/he did. Obviously I was being pretty self-destructive in that case, but it didn't even occur to me to say: Yes!! Can't you see how upset I am? Leave me alone!
Or: Yes, you are saying way too much!! I actually asked you for help, and instead you're helping other FOO members and hurting me. (Except telling anybody in FOO that they're hurting me wouldn't be useful, cuz they'd just blame me for being too sensitive.)

It didn't even occur to me I was being self-destructive or that there might have been another option, like leave those people, leave the room. Though actually when that kind of incident takes place, I'm not within my own four walls, I'm nowhere very safe. It's always been somewhere where FOO is on a stronger footing than me.

I might write some more on this, but will switch to my own Journal.

[BlancaLap]

"Trauma destroys boundaries. If a person is in a situation in which their boundaries are too deeply invaded, they may lose the ability to feel or sense their boundaries anymore. If their voice is completely silenced, they won't know what they want to say no to and what they want to say yes to. If they have been through this kind of situation too many times, they may find it impossible to formulate in their mind what would be a healthy boundary and what would not be, and by extension, they may have trouble knowing what constitutes self-care and what doesn't.

So true, well done finding this

[Blueberry]

I'm bumping this old thread because I thought of the swimming pool walls analogy when I was responding to another mbr's post today or yesterday. It was about how difficult it is to keep going with self-care especially in difficult situations e.g. when with FOO.

In the first post, 3Roses mentions boundary violations as one of the causes of cptsd, which it is, but it also occurred to me on re-reading just now that our allowing boundary violations to take place (again) is an effect of cptsd as well.

I really recommend reading the whole article http://www.new-synapse.com/aps/wordpress/?p=1911
There is just so much apt stuff in there, whether for child-onset or adult-onset cptsd.

[Armee]

Thank you Blueberry! This is so helpful as right now I am thinking about this very issue, why i just froze and accepted things and didn't even attempt to say no to many things.

[Blueberry]

  

[CactusFlower]

Thank you, that was a good read and a pretty apt analogy. (especially for a visual thinker.) It's true, the concept of self-care often baffles me. I see it described as "doing something special/different for yourself" or whatever, but not something you normally do. I can never actually think of anything.

Example: Physical issues means things like bubble baths, long walks, getting out in nature, etc. are not possible. If I had to change that to "take a long hot shower", I do that anyway, so it's not special. Low income budget issues mean dining out or takeaway have to be planned for and maybe even saved for, which gives me financial anxiety. Put lotion on/spa day... That kinda stuff doesn't feel special, it's just like added hygiene steps and feels pointless. Special food or drink... again, it's either budget issues or, being a foodie, I'd have eaten it anyway. Being creative - again, physicality problems mean I can't do this for more than 10-15 minutes at a time, so the crocheting and painting/drawing I love makes me frustrated when I have to stop. Take a nap/meditate/read/etc... I do that anyway.  All of the suggestions I see when I google "Self care ideas" either are unlikely physically or financially, or they're not things I consider "special/different". And if it's not something special or different to what you usually do, then what's the point? This all gets very frustrating.

[Blueberry]

There's a lot in the article so depending on where people are on their journey, I guess different things will occur to them. Maybe your self-care is just generally pretty good, sage? I really struggle with very basic self-care like regular showers, eating nutritiously regularly or sometimes eating at all. I know I'm not the only one on here like that.

Another form of self-care for us cptsd-ers is continuing to protect ourselves when dealing with FOO, not dropping back into old habits which were useful at some point in our lives, life-saving even, but no longer are. I think the article illustrates why that can be such a problem. That's the main reason I reposted.

[CactusFlower]

Maybe? I too have issues with the basic stuff like you mentioned. I need people to remind me to do things, in addition to electronic AND written reminders. Maybe my difficulty with it is defining what is "something special".