Tentatively reconnecting with sibling

Started by Rainydaze, January 11, 2018, 10:34:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Rainydaze

I haven't had a close relationship with my brother for a long time but we've messaged each other recently and have agreed to meet up. I'm pleased about this but also a bit wary. He's aware of a little bit about my no-contact situation with my father (we haven't spoken for 10 months) but he's only had this from NF's entirely bias viewpoint. I don't think he has anywhere near the background information that I have on narcissistic personality disorders and he still regularly communicates with him. I think he's had a negative experience with him but not to the extent that I have had as scapegoat. I've worked hard to be kind to myself and to create peace and calm within my life for the past 10 months of no contact with my father and I'm worried that this might be in jeopardy if I don't negotiate this carefully. For instance, I worry that if I give too much away about my life and what I'm up to then this might get inadvertently passed on to NF. I feel really protective of my boundaries and peace of mind and I'm feeling anxious now!

Anyone relate to this? Any tips? I'm hoping it doesn't turn into a potential flying monkey situation. I don't want to think that of him but a part of me worries that he won't get it. It also feels like a door swaying open slightly in the breeze just asking for NF to turn up and barge his way through it.   

Libby18

Hi blues_cruise.

It's good to hear that you are reconnecting,  a little,  with your brother,  but I can understand fully why you feel so anxious.  When my relationship with my parents fell apart completely,  my sister said of our childhood " It wasn't like that. That's just how YOU remember it." It was odd really,  because we hadn't been discussing our childhood.  In fact,  we never really had because she had resisted any attempts so completely.  Like your brother,  I believe our childhood adversely affected her too,  but she was not the scapegoat,  and denies there was any issue.  Consequently,  we have been absolute NC for over five years.  My parents have contacted me a couple of times to see if I am ready to apologise to them,  but nothing at all from sister.  I have sent cards etc but with no response. For me, there is no prospect of any contact now, and I am quite accepting of this. After all, nm controlled everything so we never really had a relationship separate to her.

So, sorry for the long story. I think it shows that for me, NC with parents meant NC with sister. As, however,  you have maintained some contact with your brother, maybe there is scope for establishing a new type of relationship with him. If my sister had left any route open,  I think I would have seen how things went.

I think,  however,  that you are absolutely right to protect yourself at all times. Like my sister,  he has a different experience of parental relationships than you and I do, so I wonder whether our siblings would ever be able to accept our point of view. 

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide is right for you with regards to your brother.   I hope you feel able to let us know how things progress.

Libby



Blueberry

I can relate alright, blues_cruise!

I got back in contact with FOO after a period of NC and VLC, depending on member. It took me a long time to realise that they hadn't really changed. I'm back to VVVLC with parents and sibs. I don't think any form of 'normal' contact will ever be possible. So I can understand that you feel wary. In fact, I think it's good to feel that way.

Things might have gone better (before the events after which I went VVVLC) if I'd know of this forum and OutOfTheFog earlier. I might have been better able to protect myself. So from that point of view, you're maybe going in better prepared than me. Still I think wariness is a good thing.

I wish you all the best.

Rainydaze

Thank you both for responding, it really helps to feel validated!

Quote from: Libby18 on January 12, 2018, 06:58:26 AM
After all, nm controlled everything so we never really had a relationship separate to her.

That's always been the way with us too and I never questioned it. My brother was pretty much constantly mean to me as a child and only grew out of it when he left home at 18. I think he feels bad for that now but I actually don't really hold anything against him for it. I think he had a different role to me in the family but was manipulated by NF to be horrid as a power trip and to cement my role as scapegoat. NF never told him off for any bullying and would turn a blind eye to it all. I think this was abusive in itself as my brother was left filled with negativity and didn't have boundaries. It annoys me so much that NF triangulated us to such an extent.

Quote from: Libby18 on January 12, 2018, 06:58:26 AMSo, sorry for the long story. I think it shows that for me, NC with parents meant NC with sister. As, however,  you have maintained some contact with your brother, maybe there is scope for establishing a new type of relationship with him. If my sister had left any route open,  I think I would have seen how things went.

:hug: Sorry it didn't turn out well for you, it sounds like your sister is enmeshed with your parents and that the manipulation by them runs deep. I am just going to see how things go with my brother. He's having a bad time of things at the moment and I would like to be there for him but I want to be there as the new, independent blues_cruise, not the family scapegoat.

Quote from: Blueberry on January 12, 2018, 10:47:55 PMThings might have gone better (before the events after which I went VVVLC) if I'd know of this forum and OutOfTheFog earlier. I might have been better able to protect myself. So from that point of view, you're maybe going in better prepared than me. Still I think wariness is a good thing.

This forum and outofthefog have really helped me understand that I can and should protect myself. A few years ago I would never in a million years have imagined that I would have broken free from NF, but here I am. I actually like and respect myself now which I never could while I was still under the thumb. I'm going to write a list of 'no go' areas of conversation I think. For instance, I don't want to talk about NF at any length and end up trying to justify myself to someone who won't get it. I know he sees our father as selfish and cruel but I'm not sure if he understands yet that we have been seriously emotionally abused. I don't want what I've been through to be minimized, so I think it's best if we just steer clear of talking about any of it. I'm going to try to keep it as positive as possible and hopefully we can reconnect without our father having any involvement. We'll see.

Thank you Libby  :hug: and thank you Blueberry  :hug:  :)

Rainydaze

#4
I met up with my brother and it was really good to see him. We spoke about NF and he didn't have any idea of the extent of what was happening when we were younger but feels bad that he couldn't see it. It turns out after speaking a bit further to my brother on other occasions since that he's having a tough time because he's seeing NF's abuse for what it really is. It breaks my heart because he sounds like the lost me of two years ago and I know how painful it is when the realisation that your father doesn't love you first hits. It's also validation because this is both of my brothers now who have had depression and have been able to link it to our father and see how detrimental his behaviour has been. It was never just me being oversensitive or imagining things. I'm so relieved we finally seem to be on the same page now and are no longer separated by our own parent trying to drive a wedge between us. I also have a reignited anger at NF for all the pain and damage he's caused. All three of us have had terrible mental problems as a result of his behaviour and he takes no responsibility for any of it. Rather than facing his issues the way we've chosen to he chose to abuse like a complete coward. He had three children looking up to him and a doting wife who would have done anything for him...how could that not be enough? Why self-destruct? It's such a waste! I just hope I can be of some help to my brother while he processes everything, I know how devastating it feels in the beginning. :fallingbricks:


Blueberry

I'm happy for you that the reconnection went quite well - it sounds that way. Having sibs on the same page must feel good!

Libby183

Hi bluescruise, I am so pleased that reconnecting with your brother has been a positive experience.   It sounds as if you may be able to pass on some of your steps towards healing, whilst taking care of yourself.

All the best,

Libby.


Rainydaze

Thank you both.  :) I'm now feeling a bit tentative again as he came round my house a couple of weeks ago and had spoken to our father the day before (who I've been no contact with for nearly a year). He'd told NF that he was coming to my house the following day which worried me in case it provoked him to turn up, then admitted that he probably shouldn't have disclosed that to him. A few days prior my brother had been saying that he was ready to distance himself from NF and that he was seeing how wrong the situation was but when I saw him after they had spoken on the phone he was saying how he has been discussing money with NF and that he was being given gifts. He then said he would always speak to NF as he's his father and that he wouldn't be involved in "whatever's going on between the two of you", which is fine by me but even though it probably wans't intentioned that way the way he phrased it made it sound like some petty quarrel which made me feel really invalidated. I think he's very enmeshed and is in quite a lot of fog, which I'm ashamed to say I find triggering. I wish I could feel strong enough to communicate more but I feel like I need to keep myself safe and concentrate on my own health too. It's very difficult!

Three Roses

 It really is difficult. My best to you in this.  :hug:

Rainydaze

Thanks Three Roses :hug: I think now I have a better idea of where he's at then I at least know what to expect now and can have some boundaries.  :yes:

Blueberry

You seem to be getting a clearer picture of what's what within FOO in the present day. Boundaries are good! But I found and still find setting them hard.  :thumbup: on you setting them.

I agree with Three Roses  - it really is difficult. I certainly find it difficult learning to navigate the FOO dysfunction in a healthier way than I ever did in previous years.

I also know the feeling of the problems being treated like some petty quarrel whereas it's all so, so much more. My Bs both speak as if the 'problem' between me and M is just the usual mother-daughter stuff, nicely ignoring all the abuse that went on. They admonish me to be on my best behaviour. Well, I'm done with that.

I hope you manage to navigate something better for yourself. I'm setting boundaries way too late.   :hug: to you

Rainydaze

Thanks Blueberry.  :hug:

It is difficult when our problems are minimized but then all the covert abuse in my FOO was treated as normal, so it's not surprising. Plus NF continues to play the victim and is a good actor. I get angry at people for being so easily manipulated by him but remind myself that I was the same until things got unbearable enough for me to educate myself on personality disorders.

Boundaries are a really good thing, you're right. I always thought that people pleasing was the way forward and would protect me but nope, you need those impenetrable, steel walls sometimes.  ;)


Blueberry

Quote from: blues_cruise on March 13, 2018, 10:59:59 AM
I get angry at people for being so easily manipulated by him but remind myself that I was the same until things got unbearable enough for me to ..

:yeahthat: for me too. At least I certainly feel annoyed at and/or uncomprehending of people who know about the CSA and the CPTSD being shocked about or disapproving of my VVVLC with FOO, until I remember that for years I was in contact with FOO. These people met FOO through me! No wonder my VVVLC is suddenly rather surprising.

I find it brave of you to write what I quoted above!   It's easier to say "Me too!" when somebody else has written it already. :hug:

Triple Ginger

I hope things go well with your brother blues cruise, and I understand the minefield you're entering. Please take care of yourself, although it sounds like you have a lot of self-awareness.

When I was diagnosed with C-PTSD in late 2013 at age 49, I tried to explain the situation to my older brother. He's essentially a kind person, yet he dislikes conflict of any kind, and he is exceedingly passive. He's also intensely loyal to our mother. She passed away two years before my diagnosis in late 2011, and due to her narcissism, emotional neglect, and her disturbing handling of a troubling situation with my uncle (her elder brother), her death was a bit of a relief. When I tried to explain my complicated feelings, my brother felt that I needed to forget about things and move forward. When I told him that processing my grief was essential to moving forward, he acted like he understood, yet the conversation would be forgotten within weeks. The situation would arise again and again, and while I tried to soften my language surrounding our mother, it always offended him greatly. He wanted to preserve a falsely positive memory of our mother to help him cope, yet his messy personal life, dire financial situation, and job struggles all revealed a man who was barely coping. All of his anger was aimed at my father, also now deceased, and myself. To others he seems sweet and agreeable, yet I saw the anger boiling under the surface when his road rage surfaced, or when he went on reckless spending sprees despite having declared bankruptcy twice.

Over the past decade I've gently (and not-so) encouraged him to seek counseling, have gone to credit counseling sessions with him, and have tried to be supportive. After the death of my father in December of 2016, who like my mother was an extremely controlling narcissist who constantly belittled and criticized both of us, he has directed his considerable anger at me. We had a poor relationship when we were teenagers, which was mostly my fault, as our parents encouraged and delighted in my teasing of him. I should have known better, and have apologized repeatedly, yet my brother is still resentful of things that happened more than three decades ago. We have spent the past 16 months dealing with our father's estate, and we clash constantly. He is still passive with other people, yet with me he alternates between being loving and lashing out with bitter anger. It's exhausting to deal with him.

My apologies for being so lengthy, yet my first post has uncovered a deep chasm of hurt and anger. Wishing everyone on this site peaceful relationships with their siblings, yet I've accepted that my brother and I will always struggle to get along. Taking a break from him seems like an appealing option.

LittleBoat

Blues Cruise, your posts make me think "buyer beware."  My suspicion, hunch, paranoia (?) is that the abusive parent will figure out a way to close in on the foo members who weren't as damaged as you were.  They'll figure out a way to use them as a conduit to either hoover you back in or punish you for trying to re-frame the family narrative.  Blues Cruise, you went  into this meeting with brother in good faith, and that was brave and commendable.  But how quickly your father inserted himself into a possibly renewed sibling connection in such a way as to hurt you and re-enmesh your brother.  The only thing I've learned, in my own situation with family members, is the abusive parent will always search and find a way to hurt you, through them.  I wish this wasn't so.  Take good care, LittleBoat