Why compete??

Started by LittleBirdy, January 15, 2018, 05:37:31 AM

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LittleBirdy

I've noticed in my day to day life and sometimes even on here people tend to make a hierarchy or abuse. Why do that? I mean, at the end of the day maybe the different types of abuse leads to different triggers but most of us experience similar symptoms regardless of what lead us here. This is what I've been thinking about lately, would love to hear others thoughts on the matter.

Three Roses

Yes, it's pretty common to hear some version of "I don't know why it bothers me, I guess I didn't have it as bad as some." But I've never seen anyone say, "I've had it worse than almost everyone here. "

We're indoctrinated and gaslighted and groomed to believe the pain is all in our heads.  So, statistically we survivors of abuse are more likely to minimize and dismiss our abuse than to think it really was as bad as we thought.

Children rely on their adult caregivers (parents, grandparents, etc) for their very survival. When a child endures neglect, including the neglect of abuse, they are bound to feel that survival is impermanent, fleeing, capricious. And that is why neglect alone can be so very damaging.

Maybe some feel compelled to talk about their pain as "more" or "worse" because no one has ever listened to or validated them before, or maybe it's the attention seeking of the narcissist. Either way, speaking just for me, constantly guessing at others' intentions and motives makes me crazy and focused on other people's pain, instead of my own. One I can't do anything about - the other I can.

Rainagain

I have always thought that there is a personal limit as to when an individual breaks, how much weight you can bear varies like any other attribute within populations.

How much weight you are required to carry also varies amongst individuals depending on life events.

If you are harmed by being forced to carry more than you are able then the exact weight isn't important, the fact it was too much is the important bit.

I think there is a kind of hierarchy of suffering, during childhood we can't carry very much as we are not developed, as adults we can usually carry more.

I was 'broken' as an adult and so I feel that those harmed in childhood had it much worse than me, they never had a chance really.

That is why I don't read many of the child onset cptsd sections of this site, too harrowing.

My symptoms are the same as everyone else's on here, maybe I make an artificial distinction. But as an adult I was meant to look after myself, I was only betrayed by abusers, not by my primary caregivers as there weren't any.

My cptsd bothers me greatly, but others have had it much worse, and at times in their lives when they were developing and so more vulnerable.

Its the betrayal and unfairness that bothers me, for a child to suffer is a greater betrayal and a greater unfairness.

ah

For me, making distinctions helps me understand. Telling the difference between things helps me. And I want to do it without judgment or competitiveness.

I totally agree with Rainagain, it feels to me being born to abuse left me with harm that's more damaging than if it had happened to me in adulthood. It broke me long before I had anything to compare it to, or any power to influence it, so my whole life was altered and warped by it. I never had a single relationship or experience that weren't colored by it. 
I deeply dislike that fact, but it's a fact in my sad life, and it's important for me to acknowledge so I can weaken my self hatred and give myself permission to feel this pain. It makes the difference between pain that just feeds my demons as opposed to pain I can see for what it is: pain.

I don't look down on people who weren't abused in childhood, I envy them a bit to be honest, and find them fascinating. They're like unicorns to me, something precious and rare: cptsd that may still have a sense of self that was once cptsd-less! I wish I could get a glimpse of that. A sense of self that's 100% cptsd-free is too alien to me, I wouldn't be able to understand it at all, but I have so much to learn from people who have adult onset cptsd. I can understand that... it's like me.
No matter which kind, it's cptsd none the less, and I feel acknowledging what we go through can be liberating. So I remind myself: my cptsd began when I began. My abuse and neglect began when I began and never stopped since. To understand their implications, I feel it's important to name our experiences. 

In my mind, it isn't a vertical line where some are better or worse off, or more or less important. Or more or less worthy of compassion. I sometimes imagine it as a horizontal line where everyone here is somewhere on the line, all different, all equal in importance and depth of their emotions.

Or something like that... hope that made sense.



Rainagain

Thank you Ah, thank you littlebirdy for starting this post, don't intend to hijack it, its something I think about a lot.
I am better equipped to cope than many as cptsd is bolted onto what was a normal life (more or less).
I think we should all live in a commune where we can look out for each other.
Those who can deal with the world could do so and those who can't wouldn't need to, others could help them along.
Safety in numbers, a group who care and really understand what cptsd feels like.
Maybe we are already here?

Blueberry

Quote from: Rainagain on January 15, 2018, 12:32:46 PM

I think there is a kind of hierarchy of suffering, during childhood we can't carry very much as we are not developed, as adults we can usually carry more.

I was 'broken' as an adult and so I feel that those harmed in childhood had it much worse than me, they never had a chance really.

Thank you so much for saying this, Rainagain. I find it validating, since I'm one of those with childhood-onset.

Sorry for the hijack, LittleBirdy.

As to your original question: Rainagain explains the childhood versus adult-onset pretty well. It may not always be true, but probably mostly.

I think I've been told so often in my life that my problems aren't real or my own fault etc etc that maybe I take up comparison. Until not that long ago (just a few years), there were still Ts and docs who were disparaging about the abuse I suffered: the CSA wasn't 'enough' to have caused CPTSD, and the emotional abuse didn't count, the age gap between me and an older sib (who is one of the abusers) wasn't enough (has to be 5 years I think, and it isn't in my case), and abuse by a mother unheard-of.

There have also been fellow patients in inpatient places who did go in for comparison and said the CSA done to me wasn't enough either. Add to that FOO telling me for years I was exaggerating and inventing and imagining... Comparing is my go-to mode maybe.

Rainagain

I don't understand how anyone can evaluate or judge the experience of suffering of others.

My cptsd is a big bad thing in my life, it has harmed the life I could be living in lots of ways and I sometimes can't cope with it.

But I still think others on here have it much worse.

If you have toothache knowing somebody else has it doesn't make your pain better, and if they tell you yours isn't too bad then they are talking without knowing what they are talking about.

For me the pain I suffer just makes me feel empathy with others.

Sceal

I don't understand the "need" to compete either. But I've concluded it's not really meant as a competition, but that so many has gone through such a long time not beng heard. That they are just trying really, really hard to be heard. And sometimes they do it by something that looks like "competing".  I haven't noticed it as much on this forum, but I've noticed it alot in life.

It's exhausting, that when you're trying to share something difficult. Your friend suddenly has experienced the same, but worse. I wasn't trying to undermine HER experience, but trying to share mine and asking for support.

The things that causes us pain are different from each of us. Some can handle a certain kind of pain that others can. But then again, the others can handle pain that Some can't. I don't think it makes us "weaker" because of that, simply different.

Rainagain

You are spot on sceal.

If there was enough kindness in the world everyone would have enough for their needs.

Sceal

This was such a brilliant topic to read this morning before I went to group. Today's topic at group was validation.
Showing that we listen, even if we might not agree. Listening without trying to solve someone elses problem, although we're all wired to try and solve people's problems - after all, we don't want the people we care about to suffer. And easily just jump to the obvious sollution. When the thing we might need the most is to be heard, before we're even able to actually do anything about the situation.

It's a very interessting topic, I think.

Rainagain

I keep rereading this thread too, it has significance somehow.

I also reread my occupational health reports from the year or two I was under the stress that caused my cptsd.

They start off saying I will be OK if I get out of my situation, then they say I'm in trouble and really need help, then they say I'm probably disabled and won't recover even if I get out of it all.

Over 18 months I can see the cptsd arriving and settling in for good from the reports.

Been off work and away from stress for 18 months now, no improvement in my cptsd at all.

This is not a whinge, just explaining that this thread made me look at myself and my cptsd and sort of understand when it came to be part of me.

bogan

Such an interesting post, my cptsd is from childhood but began to effect me in my 40's, now 55 Ive been pensioned of. There is no contest, we all suffer,and to each person its just as real, no matter what the cause or duration. Unfortunately Its human nature to compare,

Hope67

Quote from: Sceal on January 24, 2018, 02:33:07 PM
validation.
Showing that we listen, even if we might not agree. Listening without trying to solve someone elses problem, although we're all wired to try and solve people's problems - after all, we don't want the people we care about to suffer. And easily just jump to the obvious sollution. When the thing we might need the most is to be heard, before we're even able to actually do anything about the situation.

It's a very interessting topic, I think.

I related to what you said here, Sceal, and I think this whole post is so interesting and valuable. 

Glad I read it today. 

Hope  :)

Blueberry

Quote from: Rainagain on January 23, 2018, 11:44:41 PM
I don't understand how anyone can evaluate or judge the experience of suffering of others.

Apparently Ts used to do it (and maybe still do) to reduce the numbers of patients with a particular diagnosis. "There can't possibly be so many to whom CSA was done!!" Or "There can't possibly be so many traumatised people!!" It usually happened to me in inpatient programs, so CSA group 'full' and they'd try and reduce numbers.  Not that they explained it that way. If they had, it would have been triggering for me too.

Rainagain

I've said this before but every time I see the news I think about all the newly traumatised people who could end up like me.

What surprises me is that there are still people in the world who aren't on here, good luck to them I say, keep playing the odds, I hope your luck holds.