Teenage kids

[schrödinger's cat]

Does any of you have some miracle advice on how to deal with teenage tantrums without getting triggered? PLEASE let there be some miracle advice. One little thing that I can do and then everything will be fine. Yes?

So, I've taken a deep breath and reconnected to my reasonable-and-sensible side. Of course I know that there's no miracle cure. It's probably going to be simply just another area of my life where I have to work harder than the average person to get worse results, all due to the ever-lasting gift that is CPTSD. ... Hm, I was aiming at something positive-sounding, and I think I've failed. Sorry. I had kind of a sh*tty morning. I need a hug. I also need to hear that YES, this is normal. I've gone a decade without being called "stupid Mom!", so it was probably high time I got my share of that particular piece of parenting normality.

Tantruming people trigger me. So maybe it's time to work through that? Grief work and so on? So I'll become more self-aware, and better able to tell past pain from present annoyance? I'm usually surprisingly good at not taking my kids' frustration personally.

[keepfighting]

LOL!

Miracle advice - magic pills - one easy solution that makes everything alright ---- which planet should I send them to? 

Teenagers display crazy making behaviour - no two ways about it.

Some 'tricks' that help me get through the days:

- Easy on the mornings - discussing anything of importance is better in the afternoon/early evening

- Teenagers have difficulties making choices (has to do with brain development), so cut their choices down to as few options as possible (not as a means of manipulating them but as a means of making decisions easier for them, especially the daily unimportant ones)

- Teenagers like the company of other teenagers or their own best (especially young teenager, by the time they're 16-17 they become more sociable again). Give them as much space as possible but make it clear that there are a few rules of acceptable behaviour (calling you a 'bad mom' or other names is not an acceptable way to express their anger because they hurt someone else by doing so. There are other means that are acceptable) and there are also a few occasions when you require their presence (like birthdays or something), even if they get bored, they just have to deal with it like any grown up does, too.

- Teenagers have trouble seeing the consequences of their actions and choices - be their longterm part of the brain. Don't make important decisions for them, but try and discuss what the longterm consequences of this decision might be in contrast to the longterm consequences of that decision and then give them the space they need to come to a conclusion.

- Most difficult one: Don't pick up any fight they throw at you. (I'll let you know as soon as I've figured out how to follow my own advice  ).  Chose the things you find worth fighting about (like e.g. school/homework) and let the other provocations go as much as you can.... Forgive yourself if you can't let them all go - you're only human and allowed to behave irrational on occasion .

Last but not least, treat yourself to * Swaab's book "Wij zijn ons brein" (http://www.amazon.de/Wir-sind-unser-Gehirn-denken/dp/3426785137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422452265&sr=8-1&keywords=swaab) and read up on anything else you can find about the teenage brain - helps to get some distance between yourself and the daily banter...

CPTSD will get triggered a lot, but dealing with a teenager is never a picknick. But it's also a fun time, where they start to understand humour and subtlety, where the teenagers begin to seek and find their own place in the world and present you with a fresh view on many things. There'll be many times when you can thoroughly enjoy being with your teenage kids - I know I do. 



Hope tomorrow morning will be nicer for you! 

[schrödinger's cat]

Thanks, keepfighting.    I'm relieved that apparently you have a teenager and you're still a very sane, strong person who loves life, not a nervous wreck. This is heartening. So it IS possible.

The tip about mornings is good. My kid is NOT a morning person AT ALL whatsoever. She zombie-walks her way to the breakfast table, grumbles into her buttered toast... NOT a good moment for difficulties.

Our tiff this morning was mostly caused by her inability to see long-term consequences, coming to think of it. So that's a VERY good point you made. The matter at hand was: What happens if you (1) skip breakfast and then (2) think this is a good enough reason to not brush your teeth, and never mind the fact that your teeth need fillings if you so much as look at a doughnut? Such a STUPID thing to have a tiff about. But the thing is, she hates going to the dentist, so she said before that "yes yes yes, she'll brush her teeth religiously, anything to avoid getting another filling". But then when it comes to actually having to do it: PFFFFFT, all gone clean out of her head. It's less of a riddle now. Just because she USED to be able to foresee consequences doesn't mean she can do it NOW. Thanks for reminding me. An invaluable thing to keep in mind, no? It saves one from thinking they either do it on purpose or that they're lazy or something. It's simply the way they're wired right now.

It reminds me of the time she was tiny: just the same fallacy of "what I feel right now is all there is to the situation". Sooo... maybe I'll have another look at my toddler-management skills and upgrade them for present requirements? I mean, part of the challenge in parenting very young kids is that they live in the moment and don't pay enough attention to long-term consequences. ("But I want to ride my bike down the staircase!!") So this is something I've done before. And it was doable. This will be doable, too. I hope.

Case in point: one thing I used to do when she was little was, I let outside factors convince her of the error of her ways. So, when it was cold out, instead of ordering her to dress warmly - if she refused, I'd just load my rucksack up with her scarf and mittens and a PROPER coat, and then she could go outside and see for herself if she was or wasn't warm enough. We'd often end up dressing her right outside our front door, and I always made it a point of treating this matter-of-factly, without any smirks or I-told-you-so's.

So remembering this, I bought this blue dye liquid you can gargle with, the one that shows you if you have plaque. So she can now scientifically test the matter out. If she wants to, she can gargle just before breakfast tomorrow morning, to see if Mummy's theory is correct and plaque DOES form on one's teeth while one is sleeping.

About not picking fights... GYAARGH. Good point. Good point. It's something I can do, IF and as long as I'm standing steady on my own two feet --- meaning: IF I'm not out of whack and thrown off balance by CPTSD. If I'm thrown off balance, then NOT quarelling would seem like a return to what things were like in my FOO - my mother would often unearth her frustration via long, angry rants at me, and it was never wise to rant back.

So! This looks like an excellent moment to do grief work and practice EF-wrangling skills. Bit counter-intuitive. "I had a difficult morning with my newly minted teen and am feeling a bit under the weather, hmmmm, how do I fix this... I know! I'll remember my depressing past!" But needs must.

And thanks for the book recommendation. You're a darling. I'm touched that you hunted down a version in my own language. Thanks for everything!

[C.]

I have a 15 y.o. son and struggle with this as well.  I'm triggered by people being selfish and unempathetic.  For teens selfishness is  developmental.  And they are limited in their ability to experience empathy.  And NPD people were once teens.  So where does the development part start and end and where to make sure to "parent"?  I'm still learning.  I have noticed that being honest about my son with feeling "triggered" helps.  Like saying I know my anger or anxiety or sadness feels big right now for us both.  I also know that ____________ triggers me.  These feelings will pass for both of us and we can talk again when it works better. 

Then when he is in a good place we talk about empathy or personal hygiene or whatever. 

Also, letting the little stuff slide and learning from the experience like you mentioned.  I put granola bars, a portable tooth brush, and toothpaste in my son's backpack.  He grumbles if I mention this, but he uses them.  A lot like bringing the scarf & coat anyway.  On a funny note, we "froze" our son in to wearing clothes as a toddler.  It was winter and always a battle.  He wanted to wear a diaper only.  So one day I turned off the heater and bundled myself up (we live in a temperate climate so this wasn't unsafe).  Eventually he wanted to put on clothes.

Positivec reinforcement for the "good" and ignoring the "bad" whenever possible.  Ask how school felt and went on the mornings she eats breakfast to help her notice the positive affect.  Talk up the times when she has breakfast and brushes her teeth..."I know you were rushed, but you took the time to eat and brush teeth, this will help your morning at school or shows self-responsibility or whatever..."

Those are a few tricks that have worked for me with my two kids who I parented pretty well through their teens, we all agree probably "good enough" as they are much more emotionally aware and healthy than I was or am!  The other day when my son felt very sad over relationship issues with ex-gf and i asked how I could help he said "It's ok mom.  I know that this feeling will pass."  Wow!!!!

So taking my son's advice as a parent and remembering that the teen years will pass.  Enjoy what you can of them and do your best...from how you describe working with your daughter and what you share in this forum I know that she's lucky to have you as her mom, whether she knows that now or not ; )

[keepfighting]

Cat - it all sounds pretty normal to me. I had the exact same fight about brushing their teeth with both my kids - and the exact same solution. That blue stuff really does all the talking for you. 

I go to an all women's gym and it is very very validating to hear that basically all mothers have roughly the same experiences when their children first start puberty. There is quite an age difference between my two kids (5 1/2 years) and now we're starting all over again...

This sounds horrible but it is not meant in a narc or creepy way: While you watch your child becoming a teenager, you can also take the time (without 'bothering' her about it, obviously) to re-mother yourself; watch what a normal development looks and feels like and fill in the gaps of your own adolescent years. You can also take the time to learn new ways of asserting yourself - ways that were closed to you at the time - and different ways of conflict solutions. So in a way, dealing with a teenager can even help you in dealing with your CPTSD.

I think your kids are lucky to have you as a mother. You love them and you care and you are willing to change your own behaviour according to their needs if necessary. What a huge difference to your own childhood and teenage home! It's hard to be a parent when you have nothing to fall back on. Kudos to you! 

C. - your son sounds delightful! Glad he picked up so many life skills at such a young age. I think it's really something that he can put his experiences into perspective so well already (my 17 yo is struggling with that). You've done a good job there. 

Positive reinforcement is indeed an excellent tool. Thanks for reminding me! 

[schrödinger's cat]

C, thanks for reminding me about the value of honesty. It's something I've been thinking about a lot - do I actually let me kids know that I'm struggling, and if yes, how do I put things? Your method sounds doable - honest and authentic without actually burdening the kid with my issues. Kudos to you.  And it seems that he learned from your example, didn't he?

Keepfighting, good point about the self-parenting. I'll keep an eye on that. And thanks for the praise. It does the heart good. 

The thing with the skipped breakfast has actually a semi-hilarious ending. I'd packed her her lunch, and when it turned out she wasn't brushing her teeth, I took out the bar of chocolate I'd packed in. She didn't like that at ALL. She was actually halfway down the staircase (we rent a flat on the second floor), and she came back up and knocked, all so she could dramatically fling her lunchbox at my feet: "if I don't get chocolate, I don't need THAT either!" - and off she stormed. Well, when she got back home, I had lunch already on the table. She sat down and looked relieved: "Oh, Mum, I'm SO hungry." So I just said: "Do you want some more pasta, then?" She said: "Yes, PLEASE. I didn't have breakfast AND I didn't have my lunchbox." (She'd evidently forgotten that I knew that.) When I told my husband, he had to laugh so hard.

And this morning, she brushed her teeth at once. I didn't have to remind her. Life is good. I'm still tired from my EF yesterday, and I'm worried that events like this will come regularly now, but basically, life is good. Thanks a lot for your kind advice. It made a world of difference.   

[C.]

Something new every day it seems.  What a delightful and amusing story Cat.  Keeping your sense of humor and being matter-of-fact with the pasta worked!

Keep fighting, I'm just learning how to re-mother myself and I really like your idea of parenting my son how I needed/need to be parented/re-parented.

Thanks for the positive reinforcement for me!  Our latest battle has been him saying "shut up" arrrgh!  Finally, this morning when I reminded him to use appropriate words he simply said "please be quiet mom"...he really needs to just chill and listen to music sometimes so he's setting a boundary we've agreed is ok.

[Annegirl]

Hi SC,
First of all   
i also get triggered by tantrums and i have things on my walls by different wise people that help me through. First thing is i do is try to separate myself from the situation, mentally.
One thing that has helped me through a lot is these 4 quotes 
"Our children are perfect the moment we dont expect them to be anything other than who and how they are" (Naomi Aldort)

Nothing you do will disappoint me, I have no preconception that i'd like to see you be or do. I have no desire to foresee you, only to discover you. You cannot disappoint me. (Mary Haskell) 

Loving IS the return. The one feeling loving is the one having the experience. When "I love you" it is "I" who has the experience"you" are informed about my experience and may like the thought that i love you, but the feeling of love may or may not be yours at that moment and has nothing to do with the information about the other person's experience.
Loving is always here and unlimited. When we tap into it (our true being) we feel  peace, joy and completeness. When we stray from being love ( when we expect a return it is not love), we suffer. We become trapped  in "ego" or mind stories of business exchange. "I love my child/teenager , w he should love me in return, or appreciate, understand, respect, be grateful... you name it. The moment you think in terms of getting something in "return" for anything, you are not present to life  nor can you really love or give.Wanting a return you disconnect from love and experience the pain of not enough; measuring; competing; feeling lack. (Naomi Aldort)

"Which question is more important to you as a parent? How can i get my child to do as i say? Or "What does my child need and how can i meet those needs" (Alfie Kohn)


NoT sure if this helps SC but i find thought enquiry helps me deal with a lot of these family issues. Byron Katie Talks about this online, i really find her work SO helpful

[Kizzie]

Hey Cat - The fact that your D feels safe enough to throw a tantrum (not that you want that all the time I know  ), says something about her development and your parenting. She's growing up as she should - in a safe, supportive home where she can express herself.  You did not consider ranting back at your M for a reason - it was not safe to do so. But she can and does and learns from it because you do not shame or guilt her.   Yay you 

The teenage years can be triggering, no doubt about it.  It's like herding cats, wrangling greased pigs, and nailing jello to the wall all rolled into one.     And just when you think you've got them corralled they slip off in some new direction.  Ack!  It's the developing brain and a whole lot of hormones at play, but it does calm down and level out I swear to you      

Kizzie

(PS - I don't want to hijack the thread but did want to add a little note to say I am absolutely awed and inspired by the compassion, wisdom and caring in this thread.  It fills me with such pride that those of us who ended up with CPTSD are so concerned about and wonderful with our children!  It also makes me a bit sad that many of our parents would not even have thought of having this type of conversation.  But, mostly I feel uplifted - even though our teens can trigger the heck out of us we want to parent them in healthy, positive ways. Yay us  )

[Trees]

Hi, just a quick note from an older childless person:   Like Kizzie, I was also moved by all the wisdom and love in this thread.  It was a re-parenting experience for me, very comforting and inspiring.    Trees

[schrödinger's cat]

Thanks for all the support.    It makes such a difference. I grew up always knowing I was on my own with my problems, so this feels REALLY nice.

I thought about the previous two posts for a while. It hit me today that there's a reparenting experience in there from our side, too.

I grew up thinking I was a burden. Now I have two kids, and they share quite a few of my character traits and foibles... and they're okay. In fact, they're the best thing ever. And sometimes I idly think: "oh, when I was their age, this-and-that happened"... and I get chills, imagining my kids in that situation. It would be too much for them to bear. They'd fare really badly. And they wouldn't deserve any of it. And then it dawns on me: "...hey, neither did I." Because I'm not that different from my kids. They're their own persons, sure, but if I cloned myself, mini-me would fit right in around our house. And my kids are okay. And so was I.

[C.]

So well put Cat.  This brought a sweet tear to my eye.  I love the idea of imagining the early me with my own kid and reality now.  The fact that I would be accepted and fit in.  So true.

[Anamiame]

Okay, I didn't read all the responses, only your original post.  My FOO was so screwed up and I never had a mother-figure to model after.  I watched friends moms, moms I babysat for, etc. to figure out what 'good mothering' really was.  It wasn't enough, so I got my masters in Marriage and Family Therapy so as to not 'screw up' my future children.  My kids are 23, 22, 20 and 18.  My second son was the one who 'acted out', if you want to call it that.  My kids are really amazing people and I love them more than they can know.  I chose NOT to hide my past from them, but was careful to only share information that was age appropriate for them.  The always, ALWAYS told them that I cannot give them something I do not possess, so my parenting would have holes in it.  But that it's a positive spiral upwards, because they would be able to parent their children better and so on and so forth. 

I found a couple of things crucial in my parenting and that my kids--as adults--cherish to this day. 

1.  The answer is always yes UNLESS there is a reason for no.  If they wanted to have a friend spend the night, but the house was a mess, they had to clean the house to have the friend over.  They stopped asking for things that they knew WHY the reason was no...or took care of the no to change to a yes. 

2.  Consequences were decided by the family and kept inside a cabinet door.  So, if they got home after curfew, they already knew what the consequence was, so we didn't have to argue. 

3.  ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS preserve the dignity of the child.  This takes many forms.  If I handed out a discipline, I'd give them time to get themselves together instead of being in their face.  Just like us, they too, need to learn how to self-regulate. (Never discipline in front of friends, etc.)

4.  TDM--Team Decision Making meeting.  I got this from work.  I'm a social worker and when we got involved with a family, we would have a TDM because the family is the expert on their needs and strengths.  The rules are simple, everyone has a right to be heard; no blaming; respect others.  We would set a time for the meeting and everyone got a chance to say their piece.  At the beginning, everyone had to say something positive about the family and then we had to list the issues.  The kids really respected this and it really helped everyone to be involved in the solutions. 

With the above, I only ever had one temper tantrum.  My eldest, who threw tantrums from a baby on.  He wasn't going to respect boundaries, he wasn't going to hear anything I had to say, he was SO far out in left field that resistance was futile.  ...So...I removed myself from the situation.  He tried this again 2.5 years ago when he turned 21.  I waited 4 months before we could reconcile the situation.  And yes, we had a TDM.  He had some things to say that were valid and difficult when you are 'launching.'  He's a great guy now--all grown up, married and working on his PhD in physics. 

My 2nd son participated in typical teen behavior of mj and alcohol.  Not acceptable in our family...and he was 18. I ended up kicking him out of the house and literally had to leave the house so as NOT to engage him in a temper tantrum.  He thanked me a week later.  He turned himself around and got into UCLA.   He's had the hardest time of all my four kids because he is literally a genius and friends are more important than anything else to him.  He still drinks too much, but is graduating this May with a double major in Mathematics and Statistics.    My third is going to be a deaf psychotherapist and my daughter is in her Freshman year at UC Berkeley with a Junior, second semester standing in BioChem (pre-med).  She finished Junior college prior to graduating HS. 

What works for me doesn't necessarily work for others.  So take what you can from this and make it your own...what will work for you.  I love being a Mom and no, I wasn't the best at it.  I'm the The Psychosomatic: The psychosomatic mother uses illness and aches and pains to manipulate others, to get her way, and to focus attention on herself. Shecares little for those around her. The way to get attention from this kind of mother is to take care of her. This kind of mother uses illness to escape from her own feelings or from having to deal with difficulties in life. You cannot be sicker than she. She will up the ante
I hate the fact that I am...but I am. 

Anyway, I hope this helps even a little. 

[schrödinger's cat]

Hi Ana, sorry for taking so long to reply. I thought about this topic on and off during the past few days. First of all, your attempts to fix the damage are really impressive. To study Marriage and Family Therapy? Now THAT's what I call thorough. 

I chose NOT to hide my past from them, but was careful to only share information that was age appropriate for them.  The always, ALWAYS told them that I cannot give them something I do not possess, so my parenting would have holes in it.  But that it's a positive spiral upwards, because they would be able to parent their children better and so on and so forth. 

Mine are now old enough to hear some things - mainly because they're now able to relate, for example to things like "I was alone and had no friends". I was actually hesitant to tell them my story. It seemed like an unnecessary burden for them. But during the past months, I realized that it my mother's silence (for example about why my father was ill, how bad it was, what our financial situation was like) only ever made things worse. I knew anyway that something was wrong. If you're never told what that is, then you just end up feeling unsettled and fearful of everything. So I've started to gradually mention things. Like when they ask: "What did you and your friends do during the summer holidays?", I'll tell them that I had no friends and spent the time in my room re-reading the eight library books I was allowed to get every month, rationing them out so they'd last longer. I'm taking care to sound calm about it. And I am. I'm a lot further on in my recovery now than I was last spring. So... I think I wouldn't have been able to really tell them much before that. I'd have gone to pieces.

I like how you put it - that your parenting has holes in it, and the bit about gradual improvements spiralling upwards from generation to generation. That's an empowering thing to say.

Our parenting styles have much in common, I think. When I knew I was pregnant, I thought about what I wanted our parenting to be like. And we hit on much the same things. Make sure the kid keeps her dignity and has a way to save face. Make sure all rules are fair and fit the kid's present needs and abilities - so I always try to give them a lot of freedom, as many permissions as I can, and to make our rules fair and firm. I used to picture it like giving a young colt a large enough meadow to run through, with a good and solid fence. And then you widen the meadow year by year as they learn more. We have meetings too - for example, one time I remembered about this "Five Languages of Love" idea and we sat down and decided what everyone's "native language" was.

I'm still having to constantly read up on things, or to sit down and consciously make decisions. If I don't, I drift into my mother's parenting style, which was distant and aloof, with occasional moments of closeness. It's a bit difficult at times, because I was so isolated that I don't have any experience of watching my friends with their parents, or watching families I know now. I was always on my own. So I'm clueless about quite a few basic things - like, how do families spend time together? We spent most Sundays visiting my father in various hospitals, so that's not really an option. I'm ever so glad I'm living in the age of Google.

[Anamiame]

I LOVE the five love languages!!!  It's interesting because over time mine changed. Parenting is difficult today because of social pressures to be  'thus and so.' 

I had to tell my 20 year old about my therapy.  Since he saw my mother's home, he understands better than anyone in my family as to what she was like, etc.  He's around me more than anyone else and it wouldn't have been fair to  leave him wondering why I am acting differently, etc.