Lying

[tea-the-artist]

i would really appreciate some feedback on this.

i feel a lot of shame to write this. i dont know if i'm coming to terms but i am seeing that i am a huge liar. i'm starting to feel like a narc because i feel so disconnected from "existing" that i have remembered being on autopilot and lying to friends. about small things like having to be somewhere else when i dont feel up to hanging out with them after blowing them off previously (whether or not i was able to spend time with them).

as a kid i lied about feeling sick because i'd forget to give them the permission slip for a field trip so I end up being unable to go.

i have lied when it's close to birthdays or holidays and i haven't yet painted presents for anyone because i procrastinated.

just yesterday i lied to one of my best friends that i had a bunch of doc appointment today and couldn't hang out for her birthday, just because she'd sent a bunch of texts that she was back in town and wanting to see me today. and then again today told her i was at an appointment that should be done a few hours from now, too late for her to want to hang out. it's postponed to tomorrow (so no excuse).

i didn't mean to ramble there.. but i don't know. i read this post somewhere about people who compulsively lie and that "it's pathetic" and liars can't be trusted. i know they were talking about someone who is the cause of many people's CPTSD, but it felt directed to me included in that. it felt like it hit right on the nose.

i hate... feeling this detachment because i feel like i don't think about how it affects the other person, my friends. my only thoughts are "i hope they don't hate me" or "they probably hate me now" and i feel like that is so manipulative even though I don't bring it up to them.

i feel awful to say this on this forum. i know sometimes we lie to protect ourselves but i just feel really disgusting for lying about the littlest things, that i am just like those awful people who have no remorse because they can't feel it or because they don't care. i don't want to be like that

[Deep Blue]

Tea,
I have told lots of lies this week too.  My H has no clue about my CPTSD.  He knows I see a T but that's it.  He knows I see a T but sometimes I need more support than others.  I make extra appointments and for some reason lie about where I'm going.

Sometimes we lie to protect ourselves.  Maybe you just were not up to socializing? Maybe that's why you procrastinated to begin with.  I don't think the problem is telling lies.  I think the problem is the types of lies people tell.  Your lies don't harm others.  You are preserving yourself with the lies you tell.  Many of the narcissist abusers tell lies aimed at harming others. 
You are not them! 

[sanmagic7]

 

[Blueberry]

Sometimes we lie to protect ourselves.  Maybe you just were not up to socializing? Maybe that's why you procrastinated to begin with.  I don't think the problem is telling lies.  I think the problem is the types of lies people tell.  Your lies don't harm others.  You are preserving yourself with the lies you tell.  Many of the narcissist abusers tell lies aimed at harming others. 
You are not them! 

I think I told a lie this week too, though it's hard to tell.  I mean it's sometimes hard to tell if I'm sick or not. I said I was. Emotionally / psychologically I certainly was.

Apparently the very fact that you are feeling shame means you're not a narc. There have been so many realisations in your posts recently, so much progress, so much moving forward that apparently you can't be a narc for that reason either. I read your other post about your friend and her texts. You probably do need to talk to her about how these are making you feel but possibly it is too early for you to do that?  I find pressure whether done by self or external pretty unhelpful.

I agree with Deep Blue that there may be all sorts of reasons behind the procrastination and it's good to get to them. I lied as a kid too. Everybody did in my FOO, including parents. You know, if parents don't manage to teach us healthier ways of dealing with errors (like forgetting to give them permission slip or even procrastinating giving it to them), then we might just resort to lying.

Let me say it again: you're really making so much progress! And you're so honest on here about your feelings.

[Sceal]

Everybody lies. Healthy people, and non-healthy people. Of all ages. Sometimes we lie to others, and sometimes we lie to ourselves.

You write that you lie to your friend about going to doctor's appointments rather than spending time with her, I used to do the same thing (still do sometimes). Make up excuses, lie about why I did certain things, or why I couldn't join in on certain things. I talked to a friend of mine about this once, and she told me something that really helped me. She said I don't need to defend my choices, I don't owe anyone an explanation for why I can't or don't want to hang out socially. So instead of telling people I can't join in because a, b or c. I now just say "I'm sorry, I can't make it. I hope we can do something together at another time".  or "It's not a good time for me today/tomorrow/this week/right now". This way I'm not lying to them, or to me. I keep my integrity, and I don't hurt my friends.

Another thing I've started doing is analyzing my reaction before I reply. "Do I want to do this?", "Will it be good for me?", "am I avoiding saying yes/no to something because I have to/I'm scared? - or is there another reason?" . it doesn't always help, but sometimes it does. And it makes me feel better for making a desicion based on those questions.

[sigiriuk]

Dear tea-the-artist
I grew up around liars, and not one of them had even a grain of the honesty that you showed in this post.
I am sure you grew up around people like this.
I am grateful that you started this topic, as I have witnessed my fair share of lies, and have lied to keep safe, lied to myself about my motives, lied to myself about my feelings.

There is a reason for lying, rational or not, and an emotional side to lying. It gives me pleasure to tell lies, I have to admit. I can create a fantasy, and get get some people to believe it. I can pretend the world doesn't hurt me, and I have a bit of control over my surroundings.

Slim

[DecimalRocket]

I used to lie. I don't just mean the small excuses so I can take time for myself, but the type that made me look much better than I was. I had grand visions of myself, and even showed it in articles online meant to motivate others with my story.

*, I was a good writer and it came off as inspiring yet still humble. I could never play a good poker face to lie in real life well, but online I lied like a professional conman.

But I've lied. And you know what made me a good liar? I believed myself it was true. I believed my own lies. I believed I made more progress than most human beings alive, and that I was right.

I've become more self aware then, but you? You may lie to others, but you haven't lied to yourself. The first step of being honest with others is being honest with yourself, and you had more guts than I had then in just being able to openly tell people like this. I've experienced it myself — people often don't react with compassion when people admit they're liars, but you took the chance to say it.

That's something, isn't it? I'm no Christian, but I agree with Jesus when he said that who who has never sinned should cast the first stone to a sinner. Everyone lies. Everyone eventually hurts someone.

The good people aren't defined by being an absolutely perfect saint, but whether they still strive to be better people eve when they're not. At least, I believe you're a better person than I am.

Take care, tea.

See you. 

[sigiriuk]

And you know what made me a good liar? I believed myself it was true. I believed my own lies. I believed I made more progress than most human beings alive, and that I was right.

Nicely put, it resonated with me.

[tea-the-artist]

i'm really thankful for all of your responses. i wasn't expecting much though i see i really needed to see I wasn't a bad person. i'm feeling much better today.

Maybe you just were not up to socializing? Maybe that's why you procrastinated to begin with.  I don't think the problem is telling lies.  I think the problem is the types of lies people tell.  Your lies don't harm others.  You are preserving yourself with the lies you tell.  Many of the narcissist abusers tell lies aimed at harming others. 
You are not them! 

thanks Deep Blue it is really hard the few times I really look at the amount of times i've lied to protect myself. not realizing my intentions are towards myself and not against others to cause harm. I even recently read that this is one of the main intentions of narc abusers and still thought I was doing the same :/ I don't like that feeling, so I will remember what you've said.

Apparently the very fact that you are feeling shame means you're not a narc. There have been so many realisations in your posts recently, so much progress, so much moving forward that apparently you can't be a narc for that reason either.
...
Let me say it again: you're really making so much progress! And you're so honest on here about your feelings.

thank you for saying this blue! sorry I'm feeling like I keep needing to be reminded that I am really making progress. that realizing new and helpful things is progress too.

I agree with Deep Blue that there may be all sorts of reasons behind the procrastination and it's good to get to them. I lied as a kid too. Everybody did in my FOO, including parents. You know, if parents don't manage to teach us healthier ways of dealing with errors (like forgetting to give them permission slip or even procrastinating giving it to them), then we might just resort to lying.

I have always had a lot of procrastination issues that I've never gotten to the bottom of (it feels like i'm blocking information from myself when I try to examine this). i think i have been really scared to see the true feelings I might have about goals or people I care about.

you're incredibly right about not being able to deal with errors (that was not ever instilled in me healthily considering F = always right and Tea = wrong. so there were no examples of taking blame and efforts made to right any wrongs). that's a new realization for me. it's stirring some other underlying things too.

I talked to a friend of mine about this once, and she told me something that really helped me. She said I don't need to defend my choices, I don't owe anyone an explanation for why I can't or don't want to hang out socially. So instead of telling people I can't join in because a, b or c. I now just say "I'm sorry, I can't make it. I hope we can do something together at another time".  or "It's not a good time for me today/tomorrow/this week/right now". This way I'm not lying to them, or to me. I keep my integrity, and I don't hurt my friends.

Another thing I've started doing is analyzing my reaction before I reply. "Do I want to do this?", "Will it be good for me?", "am I avoiding saying yes/no to something because I have to/I'm scared? - or is there another reason?" . it doesn't always help, but sometimes it does. And it makes me feel better for making a desicion based on those questions.

sceal this makes a lot of sense too. i've tried thinking about those questions whenever I get invited for something and usually when I get the message I get this sense of dread. even though I was feeling great just a minute ago, it's like.. an obligation that depletes my energy even though the event hasn't even come yet. it makes me feel a bit ungrateful really. i used to be good about telling my friends I wasn't feeling up to it, but I always wonder how many of those my friends will tolerate. i even try to do quick math on how many times i've said yes or no in the last handful of months. so to make sure i'm not on a "no" streak or to "give myself permission" to say no once after all the yes's.

even still i like your friend's advice. that you don't need to defend your choices. that's a hard one for me to swallow but in due time I think.

Dear tea-the-artist
I grew up around liars, and not one of them had even a grain of the honesty that you showed in this post.
I am sure you grew up around people like this.
I am grateful that you started this topic, as I have witnessed my fair share of lies, and have lied to keep safe, lied to myself about my motives, lied to myself about my feelings.

There is a reason for lying, rational or not, and an emotional side to lying. It gives me pleasure to tell lies, I have to admit. I can create a fantasy, and get get some people to believe it. I can pretend the world doesn't hurt me, and I have a bit of control over my surroundings.

Slim

Slim i honestly am unsure if FOO lied. well, I'm sure they did, but it hasn't been something I thought too much about. other than lies they might tell about me and/or B to make themselves look like good parents. that they hadn't failed, etc. i have always found lies of my own to be a scary thing no matter how small. F would always tell me "I'll always find out one way or another" so it has definitely given me more anxiety than control despite continuing to lie in adulthood.

But I've lied. And you know what made me a good liar? I believed myself it was true. I believed my own lies. I believed I made more progress than most human beings alive, and that I was right.

I've become more self aware then, but you? You may lie to others, but you haven't lied to yourself. The first step of being honest with others is being honest with yourself, and you had more guts than I had then in just being able to openly tell people like this. I've experienced it myself — people often don't react with compassion when people admit they're liars, but you took the chance to say it.

That's something, isn't it? I'm no Christian, but I agree with Jesus when he said that who who has never sinned should cast the first stone to a sinner. Everyone lies. Everyone eventually hurts someone.

The good people aren't defined by being an absolutely perfect saint, but whether they still strive to be better people eve when they're not. At least, I believe you're a better person than I am.

Take care, tea.

See you. 

i can understand DR. i was very much expecting rejection after writing this, feeling like my post sounded like it could come from a narc. that's scary and I really really do appreciate you and everyone saying otherwise. i think being the designated Golden Child and also (little)Sister-Mom has really messed with my perception of goodness. im really glad this forum is a place to be able to openly say this and not feel like i'm the worst person or am becoming as horrible as F. still a scary thought, but i really am grateful to be told this is not the case.