Hi, I'm jim. I grew up with a narcissistic mother, and I've got CPTSD. I've been absorbing a lot of information, watching youtubes from Heidi Priebe and reading Pete Walker's From Surviving to Thriving. It can be uplifting, figuring some of this out and feeling not so alone in the struggles. It's also exacerbating because I can't seem to break pretty solidified habits.
I'm in my early 30s. In the last few months, I'd started dating a really wonderful person. She's actually the one that started helping me figure out some of this anxious avoidant attachment style stuff.. She's been pretty patient and open with me, and I feel horribly guilty for not being able to show up in the relationship the way I would like to.
One thing I'd learned was that if you find yourself ricocheting back and forth from the whirlwinds of emotions to apathetic reasoning that I was, it may be best to take a 6 month hiatus.. No contact, no (romantic) relationships, with them or anyone else. However, you should work to build genuine friendships with at least one or two people, maybe with yourself. Assess how you feel during this time. Generate enough community that your romantic relationship is not the only socialization you ever get.
I'm a month and a half into 'hiatus', failing at no contact with a momentary lapse of "I miss you", and while I have gone to see some friends since, I feel like I'm wasting time.. I want to power through whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing so that I can live some kind of semblance of a fulfilling life. I like it when I can somehow manage to make a positive impact on things. It tends to happen with work.. Sometimes. Then, I leave work and hermit my life away.
I wish I could carry out this back and forth of meaningful influence in personal relationships instead of getting quick hits of dopamine from things I clearly want in life despite what I sometimes convince myself, just to go back into hiding as soon as I've gotten what I need out of it, leaving the folks I care about out in the breeze.
While I always appreciate words of advice and learning new things, I don't expect answers. I do appreciate the opportunity to keep adding to my toolbox and maybe connect, even if it's not exactly the kind of connection I'm supposed to be building. It's better than sitting still and not even trying... For me. For now.
Ok, thanks for coming to my sappy ted talk. I genuinely hope you're all doing well. Thanks.
Hi Jim and a warm welcome to OOTS :heythere: Not a sappy TED talk at all, it's your story and around here we are very empathetic, can relate to so much of each other's stories and try to offer comfort, support and information/suggestions to each other. A lot about being here is about generating community as you say because many of us have difficulty with relationships, it's one of the major symptoms of CPTSD.
It's awesome that you have someone who understands you may have difficulty in this area and honestly it probably would mean alot if you told them how you feel about not showing up in the way you would like to. Just a thought.
Hi Jim
Welcome to the support group. My real name is Jim also. I go by Papa Coco because that's what my grandsons call me, and I work tirelessly to be the man they need their papa to be.
I can so relate to much of what you've said here. I know the feeling of being overwhelmed in relationships. In my personal case, the people who've loved me the most have done the most damage. So, trust issues are paramount with me, and I tend to be uneasy in meaningful relationships. No matter how much I love someone, I tend to be waiting for the other shoe to drop and for them to turn on me, humiliate me, and push me away.
I tend to be ready to bolt whenever I'm in a meaningful relationship any time I believe I see microscopic facial movements or eyerolls that agitate my hair-trigger flight response. I can't count how many good friendships and good love relationships I've mistakenly walked (or run) away from because I felt so afraid they were going to throw me out if I didn't leave on my own.
I appreciate your comment that you don't expect answers. The greatest power of this forum is just the supportive comradery with like-minded souls who already know what it feels like to have CPTSD and don't need an explanation for why we feel how we feel. We all came from different places, but somehow, we all ended up here. We know what it feels like to be who we are, and that, for me, is truly comforting. I've lived a life of feeling unlovable, unlikable, always wrong...But the people here have given me a place to feel like I belong and like I'm no different than them. My motto is "we're stronger together" and this forum makes me feel stronger.
This forum has been a godsend for me, and I'm glad you found it too. I hope the best for you as you navigate your healing journey. And I look forward to more interactions.
Welcome, Jim,
Your comment about maybe building a friendship with yourself resonates with me. I think that is a good and sensible path to tread. Of course we need other people but it is impossible to be authentic with others if we don't actually have a clue who we are and what we like/dislike. Most, if not all, of us with narc mothers have been so conditioned to be what they want us to be that we have lost touch with ourselves.
Wishing you all the best and I look forward to seeing you around the forum.
Hi J I M. I don't know why I missed this post, but I am here now.
It sounds like you are going through a lot. What you are describing is indicative of CPTSD. A lot of us struggle, and I definitely know that socially it can be very difficult. I tend to have one person in my life at a time. I do feel guilty about it, but I also find it difficult to manage more. It is hard, and it can feel sad and lonely. Sometimes I think what we want is not always what we need, nor is it what others expect of us...
If it's okay that I offer a little advice, you can ignore it if you want, or skip over reading this part if you're not in a place to. I think it's important to listen to yourself, and to what you feel. Sometimes we feel guilty for wanting to avoid social contact, but if that's what you feel you need, you may not be wrong in that. Sometimes we find ourselves wanting to meet other people's expectations before our own needs. We put other people first. We put expectation first.
(End of advice)
It's okay to be avoidant, even if it's because of CPTSD. It's okay to feel the need to isolate, and to act on it. It's okay to be a hermit, and if that makes you sad, that's also okay. It's okay to be sappy, or to express your feelings. They matter. It might change someday. Socialising may come easier eventually, but it may not. Sometimes we look at ourselves as damaged by trauma, and we try to take control and to correct those behaviours, and in my experience it leaves me feeling guilt and inadequacy.
I just want to offer you a welcome to the forum and tell you how great it is that you are exploring these things. You're not alone in this, and your difficulties are not problems here. :heythere:
Hi Jim,
I'm brand new to this forum. I thought I'd simply share that I too have; a narcissistic mother, and have been consuming no-end of information (books & youtube videos including Pete Walkers') on dealing with the various symptoms of CPTSD in a bid to find some relief/healing. I'm also of a similar age to you and resonate with a number of things you've mentioned.
I guess having a narcissistic mother has drilled a belief into us that we're never good enough? Consequently shattering any deep inner self-esteem and confidence. I too feel quite nice when I make a positive impact, although I very rarely give myself any long lasting credit before my inner critic makes me feel worthless again.
Right now, I'm making it a top priority of mine to develop self-compassion and self-love (especially to my younger inner selves). Again, a narc parent (or two) can really strip us of any self-loving qualities as we have never been enough in the first place.
Hopefully, I'll see you around the forum - and I'm sending you a lot of compassion my friend. Take care.
Quote from: Kizzie on September 13, 2023, 02:21:36 PMHi Jim and a warm welcome to OOTS :heythere: Not a sappy TED talk at all, it's your story and around here we are very empathetic, can relate to so much of each other's stories and try to offer comfort, support and information/suggestions to each other. A lot about being here is about generating community as you say because many of us have difficulty with relationships, it's one of the major symptoms of CPTSD.
It's awesome that you have someone who understands you may have difficulty in this area and honestly it probably would mean alot if you told them how you feel about not showing up in the way you would like to. Just a thought.
Hello, and thank you. I took your advice.. I told her how I feel and she's been very understanding and kind. I'm still not sure what the future will look like, but she still seems to want to be in each other's. So, that has been a significant relief and joy today.
She asked a very good question.. She wanted to know how she can help when I am triggered. Honestly, so far in our relationship, once I get triggered I take off and need a lot of space.. She's always very respectful of it, but I hate doing it. I'm curious what other people's experiences and findings in this arena have been. She suggested What my Bones Know, so I'm about to look into that one very soon.
I hope you're doing well and taking care. Thank you, again. Very sincerely.
Quote from: Papa Coco on September 18, 2023, 12:47:48 AMHi Jim
Welcome to the support group. My real name is Jim also. I go by Papa Coco because that's what my grandsons call me, and I work tirelessly to be the man they need their papa to be.
I can so relate to much of what you've said here. I know the feeling of being overwhelmed in relationships. In my personal case, the people who've loved me the most have done the most damage. So, trust issues are paramount with me, and I tend to be uneasy in meaningful relationships. No matter how much I love someone, I tend to be waiting for the other shoe to drop and for them to turn on me, humiliate me, and push me away.
I tend to be ready to bolt whenever I'm in a meaningful relationship any time I believe I see microscopic facial movements or eyerolls that agitate my hair-trigger flight response. I can't count how many good friendships and good love relationships I've mistakenly walked (or run) away from because I felt so afraid they were going to throw me out if I didn't leave on my own.
I appreciate your comment that you don't expect answers. The greatest power of this forum is just the supportive comradery with like-minded souls who already know what it feels like to have CPTSD and don't need an explanation for why we feel how we feel. We all came from different places, but somehow, we all ended up here. We know what it feels like to be who we are, and that, for me, is truly comforting. I've lived a life of feeling unlovable, unlikable, always wrong...But the people here have given me a place to feel like I belong and like I'm no different than them. My motto is "we're stronger together" and this forum makes me feel stronger.
This forum has been a godsend for me, and I'm glad you found it too. I hope the best for you as you navigate your healing journey. And I look forward to more interactions.
Ahaha, hello. What a coincidence. Surely not the most uncommon name, but still.
I like what you said about trying to be the man you want to be for the people you love.. It can be very empowering and uplifting, and it can also be overwhelming and stressful.. I resonate a lot with what you say. I have come to realize and accept that a lot of this stuff I am going through lately has been due to the fact that any close relationship I've ever had has been unhealthy and lead to being manipulated or left behind. In a way, it makes logical sense that I am struggling, but I still need to work on having some patience with myself, maybe..
Thank you. It has genuinely been very helpful this morning to read from you and feel like someone else understands. I look forward to getting to interact more, as well.
Quote from: NarcKiddo on September 18, 2023, 10:34:08 AMWelcome, Jim,
Your comment about maybe building a friendship with yourself resonates with me. I think that is a good and sensible path to tread. Of course we need other people but it is impossible to be authentic with others if we don't actually have a clue who we are and what we like/dislike. Most, if not all, of us with narc mothers have been so conditioned to be what they want us to be that we have lost touch with ourselves.
Wishing you all the best and I look forward to seeing you around the forum.
Hello, and thank you for the welcome.
Yes, I feel like trying to get to know myself is going to be an integral part of getting somewhere closer to where I'd like to be. In my experience so far, it seems like there's a lot of good things I can learn watching videos and reading things... But there's also things I won't know until I go out and experience it.
I've realized I never felt safe making the mistakes I need to in order to learn and grow in a lot of areas of my life. It's been a lot of navigating eggshells. It's challenging to find and trust the sort of people who can allow me that space to mess up while still holding us both accountable for our own health and boundaries. It is still a worthy journey, and I am hopeful for the future if at times overwhelmed..
I am wishing you the best, also.
Quote from: Bermuda on September 18, 2023, 11:29:44 AMHi J I M. I don't know why I missed this post, but I am here now.
It sounds like you are going through a lot. What you are describing is indicative of CPTSD. A lot of us struggle, and I definitely know that socially it can be very difficult. I tend to have one person in my life at a time. I do feel guilty about it, but I also find it difficult to manage more. It is hard, and it can feel sad and lonely. Sometimes I think what we want is not always what we need, nor is it what others expect of us...
If it's okay that I offer a little advice, you can ignore it if you want, or skip over reading this part if you're not in a place to. I think it's important to listen to yourself, and to what you feel. Sometimes we feel guilty for wanting to avoid social contact, but if that's what you feel you need, you may not be wrong in that. Sometimes we find ourselves wanting to meet other people's expectations before our own needs. We put other people first. We put expectation first.
(End of advice)
It's okay to be avoidant, even if it's because of CPTSD. It's okay to feel the need to isolate, and to act on it. It's okay to be a hermit, and if that makes you sad, that's also okay. It's okay to be sappy, or to express your feelings. They matter. It might change someday. Socialising may come easier eventually, but it may not. Sometimes we look at ourselves as damaged by trauma, and we try to take control and to correct those behaviours, and in my experience it leaves me feeling guilt and inadequacy.
I just want to offer you a welcome to the forum and tell you how great it is that you are exploring these things. You're not alone in this, and your difficulties are not problems here. :heythere:
Hello, and no worries. I was so happy to find this place, and then life got very busy. I feel a bit bad not having been able to catch up again until today, but I'm very glad this place is here and to hear from (or read from?) each of you. Genuinely.
I appreciate that advice very much.. I think you may be right. Sometimes when I have tried to stay in contact when I feel like I need to disconnect, it just gets even more overwhelming and I end up reacting likely even worse than if I had followed my gut.
Thus far, I seem to have at least made one friend that sympathizes and wants to try to figure out what works ok for us both.. So, surely there's some hope. Thank you very much for the warm welcome.
Quote from: Bert on September 20, 2023, 03:09:01 PMHi Jim,
I'm brand new to this forum. I thought I'd simply share that I too have; a narcissistic mother, and have been consuming no-end of information (books & youtube videos including Pete Walkers') on dealing with the various symptoms of CPTSD in a bid to find some relief/healing. I'm also of a similar age to you and resonate with a number of things you've mentioned.
I guess having a narcissistic mother has drilled a belief into us that we're never good enough? Consequently shattering any deep inner self-esteem and confidence. I too feel quite nice when I make a positive impact, although I very rarely give myself any long lasting credit before my inner critic makes me feel worthless again.
Right now, I'm making it a top priority of mine to develop self-compassion and self-love (especially to my younger inner selves). Again, a narc parent (or two) can really strip us of any self-loving qualities as we have never been enough in the first place.
Hopefully, I'll see you around the forum - and I'm sending you a lot of compassion my friend. Take care.
Hello Bert,
Thank you for sharing. I have been trying to make it a point to think of 5 things I appreciated about the day by the end (no matter how big or small), and set 3-5 goals for the day in the beginning.. This was part of something I've read along the way as advice toward staying mindful and present with myself. If you have any self love and self compassion exercises that you have found you like so far, I would love to hear more. I do feel like I need to work on building that, and it's a struggle.. I feel what you're saying. I have a very low sense of self-worth, and don't always know how to address it.
I have a sense like, if my own mother does not love me, how could anyone, including myself? How do I do that? How do I learn that for myself when it has never been shown? Sometimes if spite is all that drives me, I try to make it a point to be better than what has come before.. In the end, I'm sure she had a hard past, as well. I can't bring myself to hate her, even though sometimes I think it might be easier if I could. I tell myself that if some part of her ever did love me, she'd want me to find a means to keep healthy and safe. So, I try. At the very least, maybe all of her struggles won't have been a complete waste if I can commit to a life lived without intentionally hurting others or propagating what has been done to me.. I think it'd be even better to be able to say I've healed to a point I am happy and satisfied with. So, we'll see.
My kindest thoughts are with you, also. Thank you.
Hey J i m,
I have been a little less active on the site lately due to a very busy set of projects here at the house. But as I glance through the recent posts since my last visit, I felt especially drawn to your thread. As I look at how you've responded to each person who responded to you, I get a strong sense that you are a very nice person. A deep thinker. Compassionate. Empathetic. I'm honored to be a part of your healing journey.
For a long time now I've believed that those of us who struggle with the traumas of our pasts, and who are wise enough to seek out help, read the books, and join this forum, are of the finest examples of humanity. We seem to share a theme of being kind, compassionate souls. I go so far as to say that we're the good energy that is struggling to balance the negativity of our world's social tornado.
I am a retired old nobody, but I have a fascination with human psychology, so I read books or watch documentaries on the study of happiness and self-confidence. It seems that the scientific/psychological community believes that half of our personality is born into us. The other half is taught to us through circumstances and interactions with others. Having said that, I believe that we, the people who are brave enough, and determined enough, to find this forum and read the books and seek professional help with our struggle, were born with kind, compassionate hearts to start with. The people who took advantage of that gave us a struggle that we were too small to fight against, so we ended up having a bit of a conflict within ourselves. I was born to live in a kind world, but accidentally grew up in an unkind world. I'll go out on a limb and say that I suspect that's the same as what happened with you.
A lot of people who were treated as we were, didn't become good people. They went on with their lives bitter, angry, filled with hate. We did not. We went out into the world feeling lonely, sad, and afraid of what our environment might do to us next. I, personally, struggle with toxic levels of empathy. I feel shame far too deeply for things I said or did 50 years ago. I feel too much pain when I see human suffering on any scale. But, I'd rather be too empathetic than too cold. My therapist says "I can work with helping you become bolder, but I can't do much to help bold people become kinder." So, I think, we here on this forum, are the best of the best in the world. The peace-makers. The givers. We support those who struggle, while people like my older sister see people like us as prey.
I'm always proud to be a part of this forum, because I feel like if I'm drawn to people who are this kind, then I must be seen that way also. A far cry from a lifetime of being told I was "too emotional for my own good" and "strung too tight" and "a doormat." The John Wayne era was not good to guys like us. Even though old John Wayne was not as tough as he pretended to be, he made it a struggle for kind and compassionate males to feel safe being who we are.
Here, we can be who we are, and find support with others who are surprisingly similar to us.
We're in the same lifeboat. And so far, I feel very safe being in this lifeboat with everyone on this forum.
Hi Jim,
I'm also a fan of Heidi Priebe videos. She has a very good way of breaking down these incredibly complex ideas and patterns. I'm also fearful-avoidant and found it helpful to read some of the other FAs experiences on the attachment theory and fearful avoidant boards on reddit. I could relate so much to how other FAs described their experiences, and it was comforting to know that it's a pattern, and it's not me.
I've also found IFS to be helpful and EMDR. That's great that you've found someone warm and supportive while you're working through these things.
Sending you support,
dolly
Quote from: Papa Coco on September 27, 2023, 04:38:29 PMHey J i m,
I have been a little less active on the site lately due to a very busy set of projects here at the house. But as I glance through the recent posts since my last visit, I felt especially drawn to your thread. As I look at how you've responded to each person who responded to you, I get a strong sense that you are a very nice person. A deep thinker. Compassionate. Empathetic. I'm honored to be a part of your healing journey.
For a long time now I've believed that those of us who struggle with the traumas of our pasts, and who are wise enough to seek out help, read the books, and join this forum, are of the finest examples of humanity. We seem to share a theme of being kind, compassionate souls. I go so far as to say that we're the good energy that is struggling to balance the negativity of our world's social tornado.
I am a retired old nobody, but I have a fascination with human psychology, so I read books or watch documentaries on the study of happiness and self-confidence. It seems that the scientific/psychological community believes that half of our personality is born into us. The other half is taught to us through circumstances and interactions with others. Having said that, I believe that we, the people who are brave enough, and determined enough, to find this forum and read the books and seek professional help with our struggle, were born with kind, compassionate hearts to start with. The people who took advantage of that gave us a struggle that we were too small to fight against, so we ended up having a bit of a conflict within ourselves. I was born to live in a kind world, but accidentally grew up in an unkind world. I'll go out on a limb and say that I suspect that's the same as what happened with you.
A lot of people who were treated as we were, didn't become good people. They went on with their lives bitter, angry, filled with hate. We did not. We went out into the world feeling lonely, sad, and afraid of what our environment might do to us next. I, personally, struggle with toxic levels of empathy. I feel shame far too deeply for things I said or did 50 years ago. I feel too much pain when I see human suffering on any scale. But, I'd rather be too empathetic than too cold. My therapist says "I can work with helping you become bolder, but I can't do much to help bold people become kinder." So, I think, we here on this forum, are the best of the best in the world. The peace-makers. The givers. We support those who struggle, while people like my older sister see people like us as prey.
I'm always proud to be a part of this forum, because I feel like if I'm drawn to people who are this kind, then I must be seen that way also. A far cry from a lifetime of being told I was "too emotional for my own good" and "strung too tight" and "a doormat." The John Wayne era was not good to guys like us. Even though old John Wayne was not as tough as he pretended to be, he made it a struggle for kind and compassionate males to feel safe being who we are.
Here, we can be who we are, and find support with others who are surprisingly similar to us.
We're in the same lifeboat. And so far, I feel very safe being in this lifeboat with everyone on this forum.
Ironically, I logged on because I can't seem to stop busying myself with projects and chores, and I wish I could feel ok settling down to a more fun activity or to socialize with someone ( ironic since you mention also being busy with chores ). Between catastrophizing, feeling like surely at some point I will forget something imperative I was supposed to do and at least if I work myself to the bone I can say I tried my damnedest before I crash and burn, and a low sense of self worth telling me I shouldn't rest if I haven't earned it ( which I never feel I have - there's always something else I could be doing ) and I don't want to be in anyone else's way, I'm exhausted and don't know if I'm willing to go out into the world to try to find some conversation right now.
I've been reading Stephanie Foo's 'What My Bones Know' and I've gotten through a point in which she mentioned she would immediately brush aside compliments that people gave her without accepting them as true.. I think I tend to be guilty of that. I appreciate the kind things that you've said. I'm not sure how to reconcile the parts about me as true, but I really do appreciate it. In fact, that perspective about only a part of us being a product of our environment and the other part being something deeper we were born with, gives me something to contemplate. I've often wondered why my life looks different from my abusers if we potentially all faced challenging childhoods.
I've often thought of myself as being just as bad as them in that sometimes the only thing that seems to keep me going is spite. I wanted to be better in how I treated people than they were in treating me so that I could feel justified in my anger towards them. I wanted to succeed in leading a decent life without willfully hurting people around me because they didn't think I could. Sometimes I get up and eat when I'm hungry despite not wanting to, and work out when I'm tired, and lay down for 7 hours even when I can't sleep, just to spite them, even though they'll never know. I don't hate them, I can't seem to, but I am spiteful. I am lonely and sad. That much I can agree to, as well. I do still wish they could find happiness and peace. I know they don't wish that for me. I guess somewhere in there we're different.
Typically, I think I suffer with that toxic level of empathy, too. Because I know what it is to be ostracized, I can sometimes have a hard time placing space between myself and others even if they are not healthy. Because I know what it's like to be misunderstood, I try too hard to understand and find a point of relating to people who would take advantage of that.
I do see you as a very kind person, and I am grateful if you would compare myself to you in that way. Thank you. I hope the house projects are going well.
Quote from: dollyvee on September 30, 2023, 07:52:51 AMHi Jim,
I'm also a fan of Heidi Priebe videos. She has a very good way of breaking down these incredibly complex ideas and patterns. I'm also fearful-avoidant and found it helpful to read some of the other FAs experiences on the attachment theory and fearful avoidant boards on reddit. I could relate so much to how other FAs described their experiences, and it was comforting to know that it's a pattern, and it's not me.
I've also found IFS to be helpful and EMDR. That's great that you've found someone warm and supportive while you're working through these things.
Sending you support,
dolly
Hello,
Nice to meet you. I'm glad to find another Heidi fan. I'm sorry to hear you also struggle with FA, but it is comforting to know more about what it actually is and that we're not alone.. Before my friend found Heidi's video on the difference between anxious, avoidant, and fa, and shared it with me, I knew something was wrong, but couldn't seem to grasp it. I could almost physically feel shifts in this switch between an overly emotional side of myself and a side that was hyper logic while lacking all emotional context. It was entirely disorienting and confusing trying to show up authentically with my friend from one day to the next with all of that going on.. nonetheless with myself.
My friend, she's entirely too patient and kind with me.. and I'm incredibly grateful for her. I would like very much to continue to work on myself so as to better show up for her in this way, and find some true healing in other areas of my life.. Thank you for your support and your words. I have not tried IFS or EMDR yet.. I see a new therapist Tuesday, and I keep hearing positive things regarding EMDR. I can't lie, I don't know why, but I'm a bit anxious about EMDR? Something makes me think I should at least try it. I will keep considering it for a while more.
I hope you have a good evening, and weekend.
Sincerely.
Yes, I get what you're saying. In relationships I would swing (and can but hopefully that's improving) anxious and feel that I would be abandoned essentially - what are they thinking, why did they do that, why haven't they messaged back etc etc - to feeling suffocated when they were around and we were close, which usually manifested in fault-finding ie they're too something, I don't think we're quite right for each other, or getting the "ick" as it's described. A lot of relationships were like that, wanting to be with someone, but getting the ick very quickly at the thought of actually being with someone.
Learning about FA has helped me see I think that I'm viewing relationships as a threat. I was "suffocated" as a child from a multiple NPD family where I was never actually allowed to be myself or have "Self" (most probably from a very early age and that's why these things feel so immediate and urgent), and getting close to someone triggered that in me, that I was going to be suffocated (annihilated) again, and that this person was a "threat."
My therapist, who I've done EMDR with for the past six years, has been discussing deep brain reorienting, and I have maybe a similar reservation about that. I think it's a very scary thing in a way to feel like a process, or treatment, might disrupt the world that you have control over. In IFS terms, we have protectors who do a very good job at keeping certain emotions under control (those of our inner most pains held by our exiles), and the thought that they could come out and upset everything again can be a very disturbing thought.
I hope you have a good weekend too and find some space to help you understand what you need going forward.
dolly
welcome hermit ;)
J i m
Wow. I can see some similarities in our toxic levels of empathy. I've been reading The Artist's Way by Julian Cameron. She teaches to start every, single morning by writing three pages of Stream of Consciousness. Which basically just means, let your fingers flow and write whatever is streaming through the brain, no matter how much sense it does or doesn't make. The exercise is absolutely amazing. I've been doing it since Tuesday. My brain actually problem solves via these papers.
Today, just minutes ago, I wrote about how cluttered my brain gets. It's the first time in my life when I've been able to see a correlation between my inner world and my outer world. My home is cluttered. My Jeep is cluttered. My desk is cluttered. My garage is cluttered. My computer files are cluttered. And my brain is cluttered. No matter what I do, my thoughts are racing on other topics.
On a positive note, it makes me into one heck-uv-a multitasking genius. On a negative side, it makes me feel totally overwhelmed all the time. For example, on any given day, I'm doing the laundry, cooking the meals, replacing headlights on the Jeep with the mower running so I can mow the lawn as soon as I get a second. I need to also hit the grocery store to pick up a few things, and while I'm out, I might as well get the lumber I need to fix that rotted step. But I have to get the headlights back into the Jeep before I can cut the lumber for the step replacement, and OH, the dryer just buzzed and it's time to fold my towels. While I'm in the kitchen, I might as well nuke a corndog and sit down to the computer to see if anyone's responded to my last post. Then I can finish mowing the lawn while getting the garage cleaned up again to put the Jeep back in for the night.
It's like this all the time. I'm seldom able to focus on one task without my brain searching for all the things I'm responsible for and should be doing. Exercise is very difficult for me because I feel like if I have time to exercise, then I should be using it to fix my wife's broken desk chair. So I give up on my own needs because my needs are the least important needs of all.
I have, in the past, joked that I was born to be CinderFella to my family. But what I realized this morning, is that my narcissistic parents and elder sibling, were just so very good at getting inside my head, that I grew up, TRULY feeling people being able to get into my head. My wife and I own a small house out on the coast where I go for weeks at a time to live alone while she remains in the city and works at her day job. People question how we can be separated for such long periods of time and still love each other. But I say that the time apart is why we still love each other. This morning I so clearly saw how the mechanics of this work in my head. My childhood proved to me that people could get past my skin and into my head. I grew up believing they could read my mind. Narcissists sort of CAN read our minds. They're intrusive on every level. So I grew up, actually feeling like if I'm in the room with someone, I'm not only sharing the room with them, but they're inside my head with me also. So, I've been managing this by isolating. I lock myself in my office at home when we're together, or I drive the 3 hours to the beach and live there for three weeks alone. JUST so I can feel the privacy that no one is reading my thoughts.
My parents couldn't read my mind, but they knew how boys develop over the years, so naturally they could see when I was angry or sad or having a crush on a girl in school. They actually told me they could read my mind. They punished me for having crushes on girls, or for wanting a new bike because I was outgrowing my old one. They "got into my head" routinely. They were narcissists. I grew up actually feeling like when I'm in a room with another person, that person is also in my head.
That drives me to be overwhelmed. There really isn't room in my head for more than one person, but dang it! I can't stop feeling like I'm under a microscope when I'm with other people.
For everything you wrote to me in your last response, and everything I'm writing back, the most important thing we can do for ourselves is remember that our anxiety, and our need to over achieve, and then start over at the bottom the next day, is not real. It's trauma. For me, it's just so important that I learn to separate my real problems from my perceived problems that are really just trauma responses.
Anyway, I talk too much. I write too long. I need to learn to stop while I'm ahead. LOL.
I really feel a lot of what you feel. I'm glad we can talk it out.
Quote from: j i m on September 24, 2023, 05:42:20 PMHello Bert,
Thank you for sharing. I have been trying to make it a point to think of 5 things I appreciated about the day by the end (no matter how big or small), and set 3-5 goals for the day in the beginning.. This was part of something I've read along the way as advice toward staying mindful and present with myself. If you have any self love and self compassion exercises that you have found you like so far, I would love to hear more. I do feel like I need to work on building that, and it's a struggle.. I feel what you're saying. I have a very low sense of self-worth, and don't always know how to address it.
I have a sense like, if my own mother does not love me, how could anyone, including myself? How do I do that? How do I learn that for myself when it has never been shown? Sometimes if spite is all that drives me, I try to make it a point to be better than what has come before.. In the end, I'm sure she had a hard past, as well. I can't bring myself to hate her, even though sometimes I think it might be easier if I could. I tell myself that if some part of her ever did love me, she'd want me to find a means to keep healthy and safe. So, I try. At the very least, maybe all of her struggles won't have been a complete waste if I can commit to a life lived without intentionally hurting others or propagating what has been done to me.. I think it'd be even better to be able to say I've healed to a point I am happy and satisfied with. So, we'll see.
My kindest thoughts are with you, also. Thank you.
Hey Jim,
I wonder if you have revisited the forum recently?
You asked if I come across anything that I feel like is helping, with regards to cultivating self-compassion. I want to share the following with you: there was a time last year when I was in therapy (before I understood that I suffered from CPTSD). I was guided in relaxing and meditating, and once calm and grounded, creating a peaceful environment in my mind. I was then prompted to allow the first troubling feeling, thought or image to pop up, and to focus onto it. I was then asked to create a "character" which embodies the sensation or image- the first time I recall it. And then to invite that character to sit down with me in the safe environment. Lastly, I was asked to interact and speak with this character in a curious and compassionate manner. To understand it and to build rapport with it.
I remember how impactful this was in just that one session. However, strangely, my therapist at that time never really continued doing this with me, and instead focused on EMDR techniques.
Anyways. I now understand that my therapist introduced me to the IFS therapy concept. (Internal Family System).
I stumbled across this again as I was looking for methods to effectively "self-therapise". I consider myself as an interlect. I almost obsessively want to learn and understand stuff in great detail - a very curious soul perhaps? And right now, that's doing anything and everything under the sun to improve my mind, condition, and situation. I found that IFS is a marvellous approach that you can conduct and practise on your own.
I've performed 4 ~30-45min self-therapy sessions, and it has been really interesting. This method for me, is naturally cultivating feelings of self compassion, and is exciting me at the prospect that I may actually be able to slowly but surely reconstruct a better mind-model.
I watched this person's videos to get familiar enough with the concept to start practising it myself; https://www.youtube.com/@selftherapyIFS and given the good that I'm feeling from it, I think I'll be purchasing the book from the IFS maestro himself, Richard C. Schwartz.
Perhaps have a look into this, and let me know if it is something that might interest you? If it does, we could share our progress with it, and that could be fun.
All the best Jim
Hey everyone,
I'm sorry I don't have my usual energy. I have been thinking about this place a lot and wanted to touch base. Your words are always comforting and mean a lot.
Dollyvee, I resonate with a lot of what you said. I can see now that my 'this is a threat' response to anyone and everyone is very much a reflection of my past. I want to keep trying to build positive experiences so that the past is not so heavy in me anymore. It's hard, and I'm fighting a sense of guilt and shame that I can't reach that point quicker. I'm slowly getting better I think at allowing myself a more appropriate amount of grief. I'm trying. Your parting words are very touching and I hope you are doing well.
Papa Coco, this is exactly what my experience is like. I'm constantly trying to tetris as much as I can in as little time as possible. I'm anxious with the unrealistic expectations I set for myself or with the daunting thought of not being good enough even if I achieve this chaotic level of perfection. My heart goes out to you. I know that exhaustion so very well. I'm very glad to hear that you have a loving wife in your life.
The part about mind reading is especially intense. I used to be plagued with that thought, too. Each time I think I have figured out and understand one way in which my perceived reality is actually just trauma, and think I'm getting somewhere... I seem to realize another area. I find so many, I get tired and forget. I remember again and feel like the cycle sort of repeats itself. I slowly get better each time, but I'm tired.
I always appreciate a book recommendation. I'm trying to balance hyperfixating on watching/reading material on the subject and 'fixing' myself with other (relaxing? what is that?) things, but I would very much like to get to this one soon. Thank you. Your posts are especially validating. I hope you are able to take a decent breather before long.
Bert, this reminds me of something that happened once when I was a kid.. I can't remember how old. I was distressed, and was sitting with my eyes closed. I envisioned a crowd of loud shadows all around me, suffocatingly. I finally yelled out at the top of my lungs (in my head) to shut up and leave, and made myself sit there until I could envision in my minds eye that all of the shadows had slowly walked farther and farther away until I couldn't hear or see them anymore.
Something about all of that makes me want to take another look deeper into IFS. It sounds almost opposite of what you describe, trying to find a means to actually communicate with yourself on a deeper level and cultivate self-compassion this way, but if that sort of model worked in some capacity back then, I wonder if it wouldn't have some decent affect now. Thank you for the link and the book recommendation. I will venture to check into these. I'm sorry I can't promise much in the way of time, but I hope to connect with you as I'm able to about it, and would look forward to hearing your thoughts as you have time, as well. I wish you all the best, too.
J I M
I just want to send you a quick note that I feel you again. I'm sorry to hear you've been having a rough day. From one workaholic overachiever to another, I hope you can find a few minutes to just sit back and love yourself for as long as you can hold it. I can now hold love for myself for several minutes, a couple times a day. I know it's not ideal, but it's improvement. I strive for improvement, not perfection. Perfection will come one day. But for now, any minute I can feel some self love is a good minute. I'm pulling for you, my friend.
We both have every right in the world to love ourselves. The difficulties we have in doing so are trauma, not real. Trauma.
Guy-hug! :hug:
Quote from: Papa Coco on October 11, 2023, 02:15:34 AMJ I M
I just want to send you a quick note that I feel you again. I'm sorry to hear you've been having a rough day. From one workaholic overachiever to another, I hope you can find a few minutes to just sit back and love yourself for as long as you can hold it. I can now hold love for myself for several minutes, a couple times a day. I know it's not ideal, but it's improvement. I strive for improvement, not perfection. Perfection will come one day. But for now, any minute I can feel some self love is a good minute. I'm pulling for you, my friend.
We both have every right in the world to love ourselves. The difficulties we have in doing so are trauma, not real. Trauma.
Guy-hug! :hug:
:hug:
Hi Jim,
Welcome :heythere:
I am going to have a look at the Heidi Priebe video, as you and Dollyvee have both mentioned being keen on it. I really appreciate gaining new resources.
I'm glad you're here, and also read that you've got a supportive relationship - that is special.
Hope :)
Quote from: Hope67 on October 15, 2023, 05:59:09 PMHi Jim,
Welcome :heythere:
I am going to have a look at the Heidi Priebe video, as you and Dollyvee have both mentioned being keen on it. I really appreciate gaining new resources.
I'm glad you're here, and also read that you've got a supportive relationship - that is special.
Hope :)
I hope you like Heidi Priebe. Same. I appreciate having gained new material here.
Ah, I no longer have a relationship. Probably for the best. I'm at a point of accepting that I will never have a 'normal' life. It sucks, but there are still things worth enjoying while I'm still kicking.
Thank you for the welcome. Cheers.
Hi Jim,
I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out. As a fellow FA, I know the ups and downs of dating can hit pretty rough. I'm going through something now and it's not easy. Even with my t I feel like she gets exasperated, or I can feel the why would you react that way, silently emanating. In my rational brain I know it too, but the emotional brain is a different story. Going through and unpacking all the emotions around it is also not easy to face. I'm trying to work through the shame coming up, but it's all those things that no one really wants to feel. In the end I usually resolve that it's just much better/easier to stay on my own, but I'm trying to get past that. It's the battle I guess.
Sending you support,
dolly
Jim,
I just reread your whole thread. In one of your earlier postings you talked about how you ponder whether you are like your abusers. That is a very powerful sign that you are NOT like them. Abusers never check in with themselves. They never wonder if they are misbehaving. Only people of conscience and care stop and review their own lives to be sure they aren't becoming the abusers. The fact that you worry about being abusive to others makes me like (and trust) you so much more than I already did.
Jim, I really do like our interactions. You seem like a very, extra caring person and I'm glad we got to meet virtually on this forum. I spent most of my pre-diagnosis life believing I was the only person on earth who was anything like me. I used to fantasize stories where I drifted off to sea and landed on an uncharted island where, to my great joy, I met an entire tribe of people who were just like me. I totally believed it was fantasy, but since joining this forum, I'm meeting people who are so much like me that we understand and care for each other in ways no other group I've ever been a part of ever cared for each other.
You are someone I would have hoped to meet on that uncharted island.
Take care my friend.
Jim
Quote from: dollyvee on November 13, 2023, 09:02:24 AMHi Jim,
I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out. As a fellow FA, I know the ups and downs of dating can hit pretty rough. I'm going through something now and it's not easy. Even with my t I feel like she gets exasperated, or I can feel the why would you react that way, silently emanating. In my rational brain I know it too, but the emotional brain is a different story. Going through and unpacking all the emotions around it is also not easy to face. I'm trying to work through the shame coming up, but it's all those things that no one really wants to feel. In the end I usually resolve that it's just much better/easier to stay on my own, but I'm trying to get past that. It's the battle I guess.
Sending you support,
dolly
Thank you, Dolly. Yeah, those ups and downs are incredibly intense.. It's hard to keep up. I really gave it every thing I had. I gave it more than I knew I had. I can see I still have so much work to do, but I was really feeling progress. She said she is seeing and working on some of her own demons, and that she can see now how difficult and exhausting this work is. That was incredibly validating to hear. I was very grateful for that.
At the same time, it's so frustrating and I feel like there's no one and nothing to really be frustrated about. I'm not mad at her, I want her to do what is best for her and find happiness. I go through my ups and downs with this, but I think I'm finally getting past being mad at me, too. As aggravating as it is knowing what is going on and still having to wade through it like sludge to find some reprieve, I can no longer fool myself out of how bad the past was or how hard I am trying to be a better person.. Sometimes I get mad at the people who've hurt me and let me down, but even that feels pointless. Sometimes I'm just upset with nothing to be mad about..
I do think this experience has shown me that I actually do want people in my life, which is a step toward the truth at least. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that a life with anyone else will ever happen whether I want it or not. I feel like at this point in my life it's a bit late to find someone that is willing to work through these things. Not that there isn't time to build relationships, but most folks my age are feeling a clock ticking. If they feel like there's a chance to be with someone, they would rather take that than stay with me long enough to find a way out of this. And for me, I just can't see myself trusting anyone enough to work through all this stuff long enough or fast enough to make meaningful progress toward that kind of end. I can read and watch videos, but until I go through real experience with it again and again, I don't think I can make the kind of progress I'd like. The age old feeling of being in the way and not wanting to drag anyone else down with me is overwhelming.
If it's possible to find peace and resolve with it and still find some kind of happiness and fulfillment, I'm determined to. It's just a lot of grieving over the parts that are said and done and I cannot work to change. Over 30 years worth and counting.
I know the guilt and shame you mean too well. It helps me very much to think that this is a past version of me trying desperately to help me the only way I knew how. Doing the best with what I could at the time. The best way to honor and respect and thank that version of yourself is to keep carving a better path now that you have a little more to work with. One notch at a time. I really wish you the best, Dolly. It's painstaking, but it is worth it. For all the grief, the good times were well worth it in the end, no matter what else...
Quote from: Papa Coco on November 13, 2023, 09:09:30 PMJim,
I just reread your whole thread. In one of your earlier postings you talked about how you ponder whether you are like your abusers. That is a very powerful sign that you are NOT like them. Abusers never check in with themselves. They never wonder if they are misbehaving. Only people of conscience and care stop and review their own lives to be sure they aren't becoming the abusers. The fact that you worry about being abusive to others makes me like (and trust) you so much more than I already did.
Jim, I really do like our interactions. You seem like a very, extra caring person and I'm glad we got to meet virtually on this forum. I spent most of my pre-diagnosis life believing I was the only person on earth who was anything like me. I used to fantasize stories where I drifted off to sea and landed on an uncharted island where, to my great joy, I met an entire tribe of people who were just like me. I totally believed it was fantasy, but since joining this forum, I'm meeting people who are so much like me that we understand and care for each other in ways no other group I've ever been a part of ever cared for each other.
You are someone I would have hoped to meet on that uncharted island.
Take care my friend.
Jim
I'm not gonna lie to you man, this one is really hitting me in the gut. I have always felt very alone, too. Especially right now, the thought of someone picking me, looking forward to meeting me, is something really meaningful. I'm very glad for your interactions here, too. I've been going to so many groups and therapy, and no one gets it like y'all do. You're a rare breed, and I am immensely grateful you're here. More than you'll ever know. Thank you.