I want to share this aspect of my story in the hopes that others get something from it. And maybe I also will, through the simple act of sharing.
In 2020 I started doing psychedelic work to get to the bottom of my insane levels of shame, depression, self-hatred, and anxiety. At that point, I'd already been a mindfulness meditator for about 10 years, plus I'd been working with CBT and talk therapy for 4 years. So I was somewhat well traveled on the healing path. Yet I still felt fundamentally broken inside. I tried a few psychedelics and learned a lot from them about my habit patterns that were fueling my anxiety and depression, specifically. But I couldn't really touch the core of what I'd later know as C-PTSD. The relational wounds of my ego, which most psychedelics tended to leapfrog right past. I'd have crazy visions and feel better for a few days or weeks but inevitably backslide. I stopped taking psychedelics at the end of 2020 but afterwards, a nagging question started arising in my mind. I couldn't shake the idea that I might have been sexually abused. It just crept in out of nowhere. Nothing that upset me, just this constant ?-mark that would slip in whenever I had a spare moment. I didn't take it seriously since nothing I could remember fit that story.
In 2022, I began sessions with an underground MDMA therapist after discovering both it and C-PTSD as a diagnosis. MDMA is a medicine that's currently being trialed for PTSD in veterans. Right in the first session, I, one, knew that this was actually touching the core of whatever was wrong with me. I could finally feel my feelings after 30 years of being dead inside. Feelings that mostly consisted of a hot volcano of anger and sadness. And, two, I started recovering memories of childhood sexual abuse, among other things.
I'm going to go into a little detail, if that's okay, so *trigger warning* past this point.
As far as I can tell, it happened to me twice. The first time was when I was six years old. That first time wasn't physically violent but but it still ripped a huge hole in my budding ideas of what relationships were. Two workmen in my neighborhood I'd talk to sometimes managed to get me alone one day. They asked me to do "a thing that kids do for grownups all of the time." I did the thing and was happy to make them happy.
The second time was worse, though. I was nine years old and exploring an abandoned house not too far from where we lived. The kids in the neighborhood would go there sometimes to explore as there was an old garden and other things. This time I went alone and there was a homeless man sleeping under some pieces of cardboard. I thought he was hurt; he was sprawled out on the ground, possibly drunk, and covered in junk. So I went over and asked if he was all right -- and he leapt up and grabbed me. Overpowered me in that old house, forced my head towards his crotch and made me open my mouth. Afterwards, he threatened to kill me if I told anyone. So I never told anyone.
No one even noticed what was wrong with me. My mother was deeply neurotic and self-absorbed and my father was always overseas. Worse still, my father would beat us and my mother whenever he was home. So by nine years of age, I'd long equated violence with love.
The people who love me hurt me and this man must really love me. So I went back. Multiple times. He had a name for me that I eventually recalled; "his special boy." I remembered him groping me, checking if I liked it and was hard. "No, still too young," he'd say. He groomed me anyway and I loved him with all of the adoration a lonely, already thoroughly abused child had. I remember telling him about the flowers and bugs I'd find and he actually seemed to be interested, which my parents never were.
Eventually, I told my mother about what was going on. Completely innocently; I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I wanted her to know about "my special friend." That was the first time she ever hit me. Hard, like my dad would, which was shocking to me. Mom was always the "good cop." But she hit me again and again, screaming and crying the entire time. Then she locked me in my room for days until my father came home. Once he heard, he comes in, and what does he do? He threatens to kill me for being abused. I remember his exact words now: "I'll * kill you before I let my son be a fag." He beat the * out of me, like never before. Afterwards, I relived seeing the shame in my mother's eyes, getting lodged deep, deep inside of me.
Shortly after that, my parents divorced, explosively. Which I remember even without the MDMA guidance. It was a...Difficult time to be a child, let's just say. I think part of me even blames myself for their eventual breakup as I was always the one trying to manage their feelings.
It's been such a big pill to swallow, because my mother is dead now, and I don't talk to my father, for obvious reasons. I can't fully prove that this isn't something I made up. But my therapists helped with many helpful questions. "What would I gain from making up something like this? What pieces don't fit what you know about yourself? Is it truly out of the realm of possibility?" This is absolutely the kind of thing my mother would keep from me. ("Don't bring it up, he will eventually forget, kids can do that" a part of me overheard and remembers now) She's kept other huge secrets from me that I had to pry out of her. I do want to ask my dad but also * him in every possible way.
Even without an outside source to confirm it, it just makes so much * sense. The sexual abuse was the puzzle piece I was missing that explained so many of my triggers and hangups. Why men that look a certain kind of way make me simultaneously fawn and freeze. Why I've always felt intense shame around anything sexual. Why I used to have this obsessive fear that I might be a pedophile (I used to teach ESL and a young student of mine hugged my leg once. When he did it awoke a paranoia in me that got so bad I would struggle to even look at kids in public for about a decade). Why I have a huge gap in my memories at 6-11. Why certain conversations over the years with my parents went the way they did. And why I've never once enjoyed sex (I slip into a freeze response as my nervous system expects to get snatched and beaten). I also used to have somatic released after my early session; anal spasms that would last a few days, and more. For a while, it even felt like my genitals were being groped by someone else whenever I'd pee. I learned all of this with my medicine work and through integration sessions with my therapists.
It took me almost a year to even sort of accept that this might have happened. I guess the greatest evidence I have for it being true is that the more I accept, discuss, and integrate the story, the better I feel. The less triggered I am and the more access I have to joy, possibility, peace, and other higher states of being. Thanks for reading this far.
Thank you Denverite. Your story helps and inspires me to keep working. Thank you for your honesty and courage to open up and share. Thank you
Hi Denverite,
Thank you for sharing your story. I think it was very brave of you to go through, remember and process all that, truly.
I have certain things which come up that are like whispering around potential CSA, but like you at first, no actual memory. I've heard MDMA therapy works quite well and have tried microdosing, but tend to disassociate, or fall asleep with larger doses. MDMA has been in the back of my mind, but I don't think there's anyone I've met that I would trust with that yet.
I'm glad you've made so much progress with what you've went through.
Sending you support,
Dolly
Thanks for sharing your story, Denverite. I'm sorry you went through all that. The awareness of these memories can be so frightening but also so important to healing.
Regards,
Aphotic.
I'm so sorry these assaults happened to you and for the abuse before and after you told. :grouphug:
I relate to a lot of what you wrote and have been looking into mdma but was hoping it would be legalized. What you wrote was very helpful and I appreciate you going there. I did a podcast episode about a year ago for the same reason, touching a lot on the knowing without knowing and denial acceptance pieces you talk about. All I wanted too was to help people with similar experiences. I think it's how we try to make it ok.
Thank you all for your supportive comments! I was worried I might have gone into too much detail but I'm glad it wasn't over the top or triggering for readers. It really helped to read your thoughts as part of what makes healing this so difficult is thinking that no one can relate to these kinds of experiences. I'm glad that is not the case and I wish I could hug you all in person :grouphug:
Quote from: dollyvee on July 10, 2024, 08:51:19 PMHi Denverite,
Thank you for sharing your story. I think it was very brave of you to go through, remember and process all that, truly.
I have certain things which come up that are like whispering around potential CSA, but like you at first, no actual memory. I've heard MDMA therapy works quite well and have tried microdosing, but tend to disassociate, or fall asleep with larger doses. MDMA has been in the back of my mind, but I don't think there's anyone I've met that I would trust with that yet.
I'm glad you've made so much progress with what you've went through.
Sending you support,
Dolly
Thank you for your support, Dolly, I really felt it! I hope you do try MDMA therapy one day. If it helps, I'm something of a psychonaut and have tried a number of compounds. MDMA is by far the easiest to navigate. At regular doses you feel
completely safe without being drugged out of your mind. Even when you're looking at intense pain and fear, it's simply not frightening anymore. When/if you experience, it, you'll see why it's so helpful for C-PTSD. Other medicines have been helpful to me but they can be much more difficult to work with. Good luck!
Quote from: Armee on July 10, 2024, 11:45:51 PMI'm so sorry these assaults happened to you and for the abuse before and after you told. :grouphug:
I relate to a lot of what you wrote and have been looking into mdma but was hoping it would be legalized. What you wrote was very helpful and I appreciate you going there. I did a podcast episode about a year ago for the same reason, touching a lot on the knowing without knowing and denial acceptance pieces you talk about. All I wanted too was to help people with similar experiences. I think it's how we try to make it ok.
Oh, I'm glad to know you're putting more information out there about repressed memories. I think it's still not taken all that seriously...And even when it is, I never feel like people really get where I'm coming from. How hard it is to integrate something you've literally never suspected for decades. I also feel that strong urge to help somehow, though I've yet to decide how I will do so.
I too feel that strong urge to help somehow. I plan on starting "awareness conferences" when I'm more healed and stable. I also want to start a local support group. But will wait until I move to a larger town.
Already WE are "helping". This Forum is an immense database of DIRECT experience and knowledge. Each of us contributes. I'm not knowledgeable however about CSA. I'm confident I was never sexually abused (aside from sexual/emotional boundary limits with my parents). So I'm learning that aspect of developmental trauma. This helps me understand more fully what it is.
As a related sidenote (and I should mention this in my Neurofeedback thread) it is worth checking out the ACE (Adverse Childhood Events study by Vincent Felitti and Robert Anda. The "score" is very informative about ourselves AND others regarding their trauma histories.
I think we are helping just by educating ourselves. Thank you Denverite. I mentioned it above I think. Your courage to open up and talk honestly, both informs and inspires me. You are already helping immensely just by your presence and posts here.
Quote from: Denverite on July 11, 2024, 05:22:24 PMIt really helped to read your thoughts as part of what makes healing this so difficult is thinking that no one can relate to these kinds of experiences. I'm glad that is not the case and I wish I could hug you all in person :grouphug:
No, it was quite the opposite actually, and that reading someone going though that was more of a prompt/blueprint to do it myself. Like you, I also have a "calm" side of the brain that does meditation etc, but goes out of whack in relationships/connection with this well of anxiety that I can't pinpoint. I'm doing work around that now and can understand some aspects regarding my m's behaviour towards me. However, I've had a few "odd" dreams around SA and like you, this weird feeling around kids that I was somehow a pedophile. I also (and I keep forgetting this) once had a tarot card reader recommend the Courage to Heal to me and that she was getting CSA vibes. I mean the last one is left field, but who knows. I also came across my gm's psychological reports a few years ago and it mentions me being evaluated for suspected CSA, but in true family fashion, it was made more about how she responded to the situation. Anyways, I've slowly been following up on this and your post is a reminder that I need to contact them again, and see if I can find the actual evaluation.
Virtual hugs back to you :grouphug: and thank you again for sharing
dolly
Hi Denverite, and wow, yes that hit me a little harder then I expected. I was gonna read about the psychedelic assisted therapy, because frankly I'm afraid of it. I think I did a little too much drugs in the illegal partying district before and that would make me get very emotional and sad at times, and being unable to process, just overwhelmed, with no one to help me. But I am happy to read this is indeed a helpful intervention for others.
And then there's your story of the CSA, that's very hard to read Denverite. I think you're very brave and strong that you can share this.
I was thinking, before I started to visit this forum and was going into therapy again, that my main issue was my m (who was not the abuser, there's just an awful lot of neglect I got from her), and that I was over the SA mostly. But now I'm not so sure anymore. The experience of being abused and then having your parent be angry with you over that is one I share with you unfortunately. Maybe time to do some grieving here. This is making me very sad again.
Thank you for sharing, giving me some courage again to do so too. Take care everybody.
And now, I wanna start apologizing for being triggered, even though there was a trigger warning, I'm feeling so stupid now. I'm sorry Denverite, didn't wanna burden you with this. My fault here.
And I know I'm having an EF. It happens.
:grouphug:
Denverite,
I just opened this thread up this morning and read your July 10 story. It is a powerful story. Similar to my own. Because of the shame, I kept my story hidden, even from myself, for decades. I've spent years trying to reach the level of understanding that you've reached. My first recollection of being molested as a 7-year-old boy came during a prostate exam when I was nineteen. As soon as the exam began, I saw faces, felt pain, smelled body sweat and felt body heat from my abusers. I heard the words fly through my head "If it hurts this bad, I could never be a priest." what? Where the heck did those words come from? But then, as soon as the exam ended, the memories slammed shut again. 4 years later, after I married Coco, during one night of particularly fun sex all the visions came back at once like an explosion. I totally freaked out my young wife. But she was smart enough to know what was happening. She held me so tightly while I experienced an out-of-body moment of terror. I was 23 and, by this time, had tried twice to end my own life, without knowing why, when my therapist at that time helped me to recall the memories again. He validated for me that he believed me, which gave me permission to start believing myself also. But, for me, the whole memory has never fully returned. It's all body memory, smell, sensation, words about how special I was and how keeping the secret was the only option. I remember who it was now, but I can't recall how many times it happened. It happened for me in a Catholic Church. I was in Catholic school. I do remember waking up in class at age 7 wondering where I'd been for the past two hours. That happened a lot. I had chalked it up to me being stupid, not to me being abused so badly my brain wouldn't recall the events. Mom was more concerned with being a good Catholic than being a good mother, so I wasn't allowed to be kept safe from him. I was told to never bring my little school problems home for her to deal with.
So, your story gripped me pretty tightly and leaves me feeling somewhat connected to you, as we shared some similar past experiences.
I'm very glad you had the courage, or maybe even the compulsion, to share to the level of detail that you shared. When I was 50 I estranged myself from my entire big Catholic family. ENTIRE family. Uncles, aunts, cousins, parents, siblings. That's when I felt free, for the first time ever, to expose everything that had happened. With no connection to family of origin (FOO), I felt no writer's block. I felt so compelled to write a novel about my own life, exposing every thought and fear I'd ever been subject to, that I felt COMPELLED to write. I spent 7 years unable to stop writing. That's why I said what I said earlier about how grateful I am that you felt the courage (or the compulsion) to tell your story.
For me, writing out my story as a fiction novel was a way of me loving myself enough to tell the story without keeping any secrets (except that I made up all fictional characters and locations) but I did expose every act and every feeling I had through it all.
For me, keeping the secrets for decades, felt like I was choosing to drink poison every day and force my liver and kidneys to just deal with it. Writing out the true story, and exposing the truth, as you've done here, is, for me, like drinking fresh water and draining the poison out for good.
To sum it all up, I just want to say thank you for sharing your story as you've done. It feels like an honor to me that, even though you've never met any of us, you trust us (me) enough to share this story openly for me to read. For all of us to read.
I live by a few rules; one of which is "We're stronger together." Isolation is a slippery slope that grips all of us, but choosing to share our lives with others who understand what we're going through is worth gathering up the courage to do. Writing out the ugliest parts of our stories is how we reach out for acceptance and validation. Here, on this forum, those come in the form of kindness and love from people we may never meet in person, but who we feel connected with anyway.
Hear hear Papa Coco! Thank you for sharing, that's powerful.
My friends... How in heaven are we EVER going to convince the world of the TRUE nature of the human species...?
I actually empathize with the "unbelievers"... These ideas are too horrible to accept...
And yet they are true. How are we going to get people to believe us? Let alone "understand"?
Sorry, I don't wish to divert this thread from Denverite's subject and experience. This is just what hit my psyche. Please, my question is for another thread. Please take it as an expression of sadness for all the pain you, we, others have had to endure. My question is simply rhetorical.
Denverite, PapaCoco, everyone, thankyou for the bravery of your testamony.
Quote from: Desert Flower on July 13, 2024, 04:18:01 PMThe experience of being abused and then having your parent be angry with you over that is one I share with you unfortunately. Maybe time to do some grieving here. This is making me very sad again.
I agree, that was one of the most shocking things to uncover in these memories. Actually, just today, I was raging about that a bit as I did my daily walk in the park. How absolutely broken of a person you'd have to be, to treat your son or daughter like that after they've just been groomed and abused...Like...What?!
Something else that came up for me in those sessions is that my parents' reaction was actually
more traumatizing than the rape and grooming. Them completely demolishing what fragile sense of safety and trust I had left in the immediate aftermath of the SA was absolutely crippling for my psyche. I imagine you can relate to that feeling, Desert Flower. If I'd only been held and healed by them, the worst could have been avoided, was what I learned.
Quote from: Papa Coco on July 13, 2024, 05:52:18 PMI live by a few rules; one of which is "We're stronger together." Isolation is a slippery slope that grips all of us, but choosing to share our lives with others who understand what we're going through is worth gathering up the courage to do. Writing out the ugliest parts of our stories is how we reach out for acceptance and validation. Here, on this forum, those come in the form of kindness and love from people we may never meet in person, but who we feel connected with anyway.
Hey Papa Coco, thanks for sharing your story as well as the journey it has led you to take. I resonate with a lot of what you've written here, particularly needing to distance yourself from your entire family. Eventually, you just know these people aren't willing to stretch enough to meet you where you need. It takes immense courage to take that step because we're so enculturated to honor our family, even when they refuse to do the same. Just because they share our genes, no matter how much they hurt us, we're required to try and make them "see." I made the same choice over time; I only talk to my brother with any frequency.
Thank you as well for encouraging my sharing. I cringe every time I come back to this thread, expecting something...I don't know what. Even though I know, logically, that this is a supportive place, the shame that's festered in me for decades isn't done with me just yet.
I can't imagine the confusion that must have arisen with being in bed with your wife and suddenly having all of that come back. I'm glad that you didn't succeed in your suicide attempts. I think back to how close I came to acting when there really was a
cause for all of my pain, I just didn't know what it was. The same was true for you; your deep psyche and body knew something the rest of you didn't. That knowledge was liberating in two senses; not only was I relieved to learn there was a reason for my pain. But it also opened the doors to authentic self-compassion for myself despite the slowness of the healing journey.
Writing is a healing exercise; I work as a writer right now but I'm changing careers to something more physical. One of the benefits is that I intend to start writing for myself again! Since I write thousands of words per day for work, I just don't have the desire to do any self-reflective or creative writing once the day is done. I'm not sure what direction my writing will take but it's definitely been on my mind.
Thanks again for your thoughts!
Hi Denervite,
I want to say that I think your post has had some ripple effects on the forum and I hope that helps, or starts to dispel, some of the shame you might be feeling.
I wanted to ask a little bit more about how the process went about uncovering these memories? For example, before a session did you set an intention and then memories surfaced during the MDMA session? Did they show up afterwards? Was it seeing something during the session and then bodily sensations afterwards, or vice versa? Did it happen slowly over time, or did they come back all at once? What was the person's role who helped facilitate the sessions? Is this something that worked well, or were there aspects that maybe could have been different? Did you need to establish a bond of trust with this person, and/or did/didn't feel it was/is relevant (in the same way that you don't have to have a traditional therapeutic relationship to have a successful IFS session). Please don't feel pressured to answer if it's not comfortable however. I'm just curious how it was.
I think you're right that your parents' reaction to what happened to you is more damaging than the abuse itself and I'm so sorry that you had to go through that and they weren't there to believe and support you at such a young age, and that you had to do that for yourself. Sending you a hug if it's ok :hug:
So, a bit about me I recently came across my gm's psychological reports where one describes how there was some suspected SA regarding me because how I was behaving with other kids at the babysitters when I was four years old. I was taken to a clinic to be evaluated for SA, but nothing is said about it in the next report. The incident is down as a great motivating factor in helping my gm feel better about herself. So, anything that may have happened to me is absorbed into her feeling better about herself. I don't know if the subconscious message is don't remember because she'll be sad again? Or will disrupt how much better things have been in the family and it will be my fault that that happened? Or if nothing actually happened and maybe we were just playing doctor (though perhaps this is a stretch?) But it does add another layer to an experience that I don't think I should have had to deal with (either experience). It just leaves a lot of question marks.
Sending you support,
dolly
Quote from: Denverite on July 15, 2024, 02:27:40 AMSomething else that came up for me in those sessions is that my parents' reaction was actually more traumatizing than the rape and grooming. Them completely demolishing what fragile sense of safety and trust I had left in the immediate aftermath of the SA was absolutely crippling for my psyche. I imagine you can relate to that feeling, Desert Flower. If I'd only been held and healed by them, the worst could have been avoided, was what I learned.
Yes, absolutely. So true. That's also what I heard Gabor Mate say a while ago. It's not that we as human beings cannot deal with being traumatised, it's the fact that we were (left) alone in it, that makes it unbearable. To me, it's unforgivable actually.
I'm so happy you found self-compassion because we need it. Thank you again for sharing. It's so powerful.
Quote from: dollyvee on July 15, 2024, 10:39:18 AMI wanted to ask a little bit more about how the process went about uncovering these memories? For example, before a session did you set an intention and then memories surfaced during the MDMA session? Did they show up afterwards? Was it seeing something during the session and then bodily sensations afterwards, or vice versa? Did it happen slowly over time, or did they come back all at once? What was the person's role who helped facilitate the sessions? Is this something that worked well, or were there aspects that maybe could have been different? Did you need to establish a bond of trust with this person, and/or did/didn't feel it was/is relevant (in the same way that you don't have to have a traditional therapeutic relationship to have a successful IFS session). Please don't feel pressured to answer if it's not comfortable however. I'm just curious how it was.
Hi Dolly,
So to answer your questions, I set an intention the first few times with my guide. The first time, I simply wanted to know the source of my panic around people and depression. The next few times, I set specific intentions around how to work with my parts (I do use IFS language) and heal. In future sessions, I did set specific intentions to recover memories but I've found that they reveal themselves at their own pace. I can't make them come back to me and the times I'd try to force them in the medicine space, my mind would (gently) say no. We think of memory as something to be instantly recalled but deep traumatic material isn't like regular memories. They're more like memories that have been converted into a sort of biological encoding that you can't consciously access anymore. These days, I think I have most of the story now. But little surprises come back to me - for instance, I just recalled the guy's name a few months ago. And when I did, it felt like a big deal as there was something about his name that really made me say "yes. I knew that. I've always known that name."
The reveal of those old memories has been slow and included a lot of childhood material, not just the sexual abuse. Physical and emotional abuse from my parents would also arise to be processed. Sometimes it would be literal memories and experiences, other times more symbolic. My first MDMA session I only had a very faint memory of sexual abuse; the distinct sensation of being orally violated with no visuals attached, which I reported aloud to my guide. Sometimes it's seeing something, then bodily sensations, sometimes it's the reverse. Other times it's a purely intuitive knowledge that you really can't explain. The boundaries of traditional thoughts and feelings blur in the medicine space.
I've had 10 sessions over the course of two years, the first 4 guided and the rest done on my own. Each session would reveal a little bit more of the story, always at my mind's own pace. Trained guides are great if it's your first time using any psychedelic. They help you feel safe by providing a presence in the room that keeps you grounded. Psychedelics can get weird and while MDMA provides a feeling of supreme safety and peace, you're still processing experiences and emotions that could be overwhelming or scary. The guide is there to keep your attention on your inner world in case you get distracted - or to talk to you, if you feel that's what you need. They take notes of things you say, remind you to drink water and take supplements that ease the aftereffects, and provide integration services after the journey is done. Discussions on what you saw and how to apply the lessons learned to your life. Integration is as important, if not more important, than simply tripping.
I think a bond of trust is important, but how important it is depends on you, really. I had a lot of trust in my first but less in my second guide, who I decided to stop working with as a result. He wasn't bad, he just seemed less present with me and less understanding of my experiences. My first guide grew up in a family dynamic like mine, which we talked about before working together. But now I work alone since it's just too expensive to keep doing with a guide for now.
I hope some of this helps you. I can't say if such an experience would reveal potential SA in your past but it would absolutely be of benefit to your C-PTSD, regardless of the reason it's there. MDMA therapy is about revealing and healing relational wounds, which is what C-PTSD literally is.
Denverite, Can you suggest a book dealing with Mdma Therapy? I'm curious what the healing practices would be "during" the "trip" as well as what "integration" would consist of afterwards. Thanks for all this info it's really interesting.
I've done 12 Ketamine Infusions over a year. I just did my first MDMA with a guide last week. Both medications provided me a very safe, very loving experience. In fact, each treatment has moved me another step forward to making me a more loving person overall.
When I go into each of these treatments, MDMA or Ketamine, I prefer to not share the inner experience with the person in the room with me. Same when I do my gummies at home to help me sleep. As soon as the medication begins to work I go deep inside my own head and don't want to talk to anyone. It's like...hmmm...I'm ashamed of myself for being medicated and just want to be left alone with some music or total silence. Or maybe it's the safety factor: Being my authentic self has always been dangerous, so maybe when my hypervigilant brain goes to sleep, I feel so vulnerable that I choose to hide inside my head while the protective brain is offline??? I don't know. But I need to explore this.
My MDMA experience was 4 hours in heaven. My trained guide honored my silence. She'd told me that she would talk with me if that's what I wanted, or she'd sit quietly and keep an eye on me if that's how I preferred it
I'm very curious now, after reading Denverite's posts as to how I could be using these treatments to clear my own stuck points with my own CSA.
I sometimes think that my friends can see me more clearly than I see myself. I sometimes share my stories about my childhood that I think of as dumb stories that don't mean much, only to find out that my friends are confused as to why I don't think my past was that bad. I minimize my own abuse even to this day. Others are more shocked by my stories than I am. Today, I'm starkly aware that I'm still not accepting the true depths of all I've been through. It's taken me almost 40 years to understand as much as I do. I remember some of the abuse, and two of the parties responsible for it, but I am beginning to believe there's more there. More hiding in the darkness of my shadow self. Not so much hiding, as being hidden. Like I'm the one who stuffed the memories into a box and I'm the one who is still too frightened to open the boxes and look at what I've hidden from myself.
I wasn't planning to ever do MDMA again. It's very expensive. But as of this moment, I'm wondering what it would be like for me to go under one more time and do it sitting up and engaging with my guide, intentionally exploring the hidden caverns of my brain. Under Ketamine I can't really talk. Speach is slurred. But under MDMA I had full control over my tongue and could easily do some talk therapy. I just...well...it felt so good to lay still and feel that all-consuming sense of pure love, that I just didn't want to talk to anyone. I just wanted to continue to feel like I was in the loving arms of peace and love and safety.
Up to now, I've felt like being quiet is the joy of the medication, but after reading Denverite's accounts of recovering memories while being in medication, I'm wondering if I've missed out on a chance to do some more work than just feeling the absolute peace and joy and love that I feel while under.
This morning, for the first time in a long time, I'm suddenly being drawn to wondering if I can reach the deeper damage done by the sexual abuse of my earliest years. I thought I'd done a pretty good job of getting to the bottom of if all, but today I'm feeling some rage and anger and terror I haven't felt in several months.
Now I'm curious if I should take a different approach and do the mdma one more time.... Dang. It's expensive and I feel ashamed of myself for spending so much money on myself. Shame. THAT's the biggest word of the day for me. I am still hiding some of my own memories because I feel shame. I feel like I caused the abuse, and I am still avoiding the shame by avoiding the recall of what was done to me. The shame is what's killing me. The shame is what's blocking me from total recall. I don't know what to do. I don't want to just keep throwing money into this if I'm not sure it will help.
Gads. Every answer I get, causes two new questions. What to do. What to do.
Quote from: Chart on July 16, 2024, 01:16:09 PMDenverite, Can you suggest a book dealing with Mdma Therapy? I'm curious what the healing practices would be "during" the "trip" as well as what "integration" would consist of afterwards. Thanks for all this info it's really interesting.
Oh, that's easy! The best book to learn about this stuff is "Trust Surrender Receive: How MDMA Can Release Us From Trauma and PTSD," by Anne Other. It is a mixture of stories from trauma survivors who underwent the therapy and what it was like before, during, and after. Plus Anne Other's expert knowledge on the medicine; it's history, how it works, and what you can expect. Pretty much required reading for anyone interested in MDMA therapy!
Quote from: Papa Coco on July 16, 2024, 04:43:35 PMNow I'm curious if I should take a different approach and do the mdma one more time.... Dang. It's expensive and I feel ashamed of myself for spending so much money on myself. Shame. THAT's the biggest word of the day for me. I am still hiding some of my own memories because I feel shame. I feel like I caused the abuse, and I am still avoiding the shame by avoiding the recall of what was done to me. The shame is what's killing me. The shame is what's blocking me from total recall. I don't know what to do. I don't want to just keep throwing money into this if I'm not sure it will help.
I really do think spending money on healing yourself is 100% worthwhile. Not if it's a financial strain, of course. But the way I see it, you are helping yourself to show up more authentically in the world. That is a gift. Not only for you but for everyone you interact with. By healing you're giving something to the entire world: your presence, your peace, your compassion, etc. Once we're no longer so tightly wound up in our pain we actually have something to offer others. So it's the opposite of being selfish!
For what its worth, my first MDMA journey only unlocked the door for my childhood SA. It took subsequent sessions to actually recover anything. Talk therapy would be super interesting with MDMA; I always felt compelled to go inwards. But I spoke a few times with him when things were "brewing" in the background. I could "see" how shame operated in real-time as I looked into his eyes, which was fascinating. Shame is huge for me as well; I remember saying once "shame is living my life."
I really want to do more of what you're talking about, though. Simply speaking to someone under the medicine. I haven't found the right way to do it since I have my own supply but can't afford guided sessions anymore. I just need a good friend to sit with me; still sorting that out, heh. But I'll get there.....
I forget which chapter, but towards the end of Cptsd, From Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker talks about "therapy exchange" with a trusted person. I personally think that most folks here on the forum could qualify for that role in all sorts of different capacities. Just a thought...
Thanks Denverite, I'm definitely going to look into that book!
It was also helpful to sort of know what to expect/how these things work. I'm pretty sure there's some parts (very young perhaps) that like to be in control, so they know what's going to happen and if they're safe etc. So, there's definitely a I need to know everything about this before I do it side to me.
That's also interesting that it lets those things come up without feeling overwhelming or scary and also interesting that it sort of prevented you from "doing too much" in a way, and would not let you access everything all at once. That's also an interesting description of how memories become stored in the body.
Denverite
It would be awesome to sit with a fellow trauma survivor while on MDMA and talk talk talk about our experiences with CPTSD, self acceptance, Anger, Sadness, etc. It's not in the cards for today, but if we keep our eyes and ears open, we could find ourselves one day connected face to face with fellow trauma survivors.
:yeahthat:
I think this is definitely something to reflect upon and discuss.
Quote from: Papa Coco on July 19, 2024, 10:46:42 PMDenverite
It would be awesome to sit with a fellow trauma survivor while on MDMA and talk talk talk about our experiences with CPTSD, self acceptance, Anger, Sadness, etc. It's not in the cards for today, but if we keep our eyes and ears open, we could find ourselves one day connected face to face with fellow trauma survivors.
Honestly, I think that would be as healing as working with a therapist, maybe even more so. Being truly understood and seen by another under the medicine would be spectacular, I think. There are psychedelic groups in my area but they just hang out for fun...I'm too afraid to go with my MDMA as I think I'd say something...Awkward...And kill the party :fallingbricks:
As soon as I have "stabilized" myself a little bit more I'm going to start a local support group. It's gonna be some work but I feel driven by the fact that 90% of my true sense of being understood and supported comes from others with Cptsd (this forum). I keep trying to think of ways to tell people I have Cptsd, but aside from three close friends, I know that I will not be understood.
I think people, without a traumatic background, get uncomfortable when we share what is going on with us. They don't know what to say or how to react.
I told a very close friend about my struggles and found out he had a similar upbringing. The end result is our friendship has deepened.
Little2Nothing, I like your story. I've experienced similar. I was employed by the same corporation from my 18th birthday to my 60th. 42 years. I did several jobs during those years, and met a LOT of people. I'm a friendly, comical, compassionate person who made a lot of friends during those years. My problems at home were not known by my peers at work. At age 50, after my 4th suicide attempt, I went total No Contact with my entire FOO. That triggered me to feel utterly compelled to write my life's story as a fiction novel. After a few years of working on this book, and seeing how it might actually be publishable, I started telling my friends at work what I was doing. Their first question was: "What is the book about?" I would tell them it was a story of a boy who lived a life like mine, and who had been rescued 4 times from suicide. Their first reaction was "WOW! I never would have thought I'd hear you say somethign like that." The next question they would ask was, "Can I tell you what happened to me?" I would find us a private place to talk, only to hear peer after peer tell me stories of their own childhoods that almost made me cry. In every case, the person I had known for years started with the words, "I've never told anyone this before, but..."
I tell this story a lot because I feel like I need to share with others that what I learned then was that there are more novels walking the streets then there are on the bookstore shelves. I learned that there are a lot of people who are hiding a lot of pain and I was not the only person alive who was barely surviving life while wearing a smiling face in public. The most important thing I learned was that a lot of people truly want to tell their stories, but don't feel like they're allowed to.
I think it's awesome that you were able to bond with your friend. You took a huge risk by sharing your story with them, and you ended up giving them the gift of being able to finally share their story back.
I'm feeling fairly sure that there aren't many people on earth having a really good time these days. I feel like there's a lot of pain in the faces of most people, and I think that when we open up to share our own pains, that we give others permission to do the same. There have been people who've scorned me for sharing too much (TMI), but those people are rare, and in every case, the people who weren't receptive weren't really very good friends anyway. I think I've told you the story of the "friend" who said to me, "My friends and I who have PTSD from war have no respect for people like you who claim to have it but didn't see what we saw." That friendship was obviously a huge waste of time, and I left his life feeling glad he'd exposed his true colors before I got too invested in him.
Those who were able to open up and tell me what they'd never told anyone before, quite often became very deep friends with me for a good long time.
Sharing IS caring. USUALLY, I know who to not open up to, and even when I miss on that guess, the person just proves they are too closed off and aren't ready for a friendship with me anyway. I'd rather have one or two open friendships than a thousand fair-weather-only friends anyway.
@Papa Coco I'm reminded of the title of Gabor Mate's book, "The Myth of Normal." I haven't read the entire thing but your post is dead-on in that regard. Supposedly 1 in 5 women and 1 in 6 men undergo some sort of sexual abuse in their lifetimes. It's pretty much guaranteed that we all know or have met SOMEONE who would understand it. Yet we hold it all in because it seems like such an outlier event...
I'm only starting to share my experiences and slowly coming to connect with people who DO get it. I found someone one city over through a forum specifically for men with sexual trauma issues. We meet every so often and each time we talk I feel a deeper connection growing. He even had a family of origin that would qualify him for this forum. I feel like I've met someone I can be completely unfiltered with. It's astonishing to know that's possible for me as I've never not had to hold things back in a relationship.
Quote from: Little2Nothing on July 23, 2024, 11:48:29 AMI think people, without a traumatic background, get uncomfortable when we share what is going on with us. They don't know what to say or how to react.
I'm pretty confident the thought itself is traumatizing for most people, especially those without any experience, knowledge or understanding of the spectrum of human dysfunctional behavior.
I'm reflecting constantly on how to effectively communicate when discussing the subject of trauma with uninformed people. I always run down the list of the four principal causes of developmental trauma: Sexual abuse, physical abuse, psychological abuse and neglect. Just there it's clearly overwhelming to most of the people I talk to. Immediately I encounter a desire to "rank" things in a descending order from "best" to "worst". It cannot be done. Immediately we have to go into all sorts of facts and precisions and a debate usually ensues. And the worst is that the core issue of "protection of children" is just completely lost in the mix. Amongst all the daily and worldly problems we face, "suffering children" is just too often the drop too much. So many people are already at their limit of what they can take on.
I'm preparing to start giving lectures and conferences in various places around where I live. But I really have to prepare myself in advance. I really want to feel that I have "done something" to help future children. I'm not quite yet ready to tackle this project (gotta get my own ship in better order first) but I'm determined to do it relatively soon. It is in my opinion the single greatest hurdle faced by humanity and impacts our quality of life, mental equilibrium and future social and environmental evolution.
We very simply must, as a species, be able to raise our young on a healthy psychological base. This is not currently the case and the impact for our future as living organisms is, in my opinion, catastrophic.
I agree Chart. :yeahthat:
I think that somewhere along the way, we lost track of what's important somehow. We seem to care about things like performance or what the neighbours think or what things look like on the outside. Instead of things like how we treat each other, see each other, be there for one another. These societies traumatize children by 'upbringing' and 'education', which is basically telling them they're not okay, they need to do better. Instead of looking at who they are already: perfect, delightful little beings.
And ranking traumas cannot be done for people. You never know how the other person feels the way they do themselves. Or having to explain what happened that traumatised you. I cannot do it. I usually just say: 'I grew up in an unsafe environment' and let them figure out for themselves, not very helpful either I'm afraid.
Sorry if I'm rambling here.
Freedom to ramble! :) Thanks for your response DF. I agreed with you 100%. This Forum is not primarily a political platform for advocating children's rights. We focus primarily (in my opinion) on healing. And I'm totally okay with that. I still have so far to go. But as a personal issue I feel deeply and strongly that our future so depends upon awareness of children's direct experiences as they develop. This is a "source" subject. It could be an absolute game-changer is solving interpersonal AND international conflict, violence, abuse, etc etc.
Healthy children almost always become healthy adults. The reverse is much more rarely the case. Hence the great importance of "getting it right the first time".