Just creating a place for people doing neurofeedback to share experiences :)
There's an elaborate thread on this in the Types of Therapy (http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?board=177.0) section: Neurofeedback - worth serious discussion, imo... (http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=644.msg22515#new)
Hi yes I just started this thread because I wanted to track my progress (I started Nf today) and we were commenting on a really really old thread. Thought this might be a better place to share our experiences. Hope this is ok
Oh yes, as far as I'm concerned it's OK.
I just wanted to point out the other thread.
And I'd like to add that it's my personal preference (and nothing more than that) to keep subjects as much together as possible.
We are a small community, and I think it's better to concentrate our efforts rather than spread them thin.
Our recovery is a long term process as well (alas, in a way) so adding to 'old' threads is 'par of the course'.
:Idunno:
I might be rambling.
I'm wishing you well with neurofeedback for sure! And I, and many others I'm sure, are interested in your experiences, so please share them. :thumbup:
I am not a big advocate of therapy, not that its not worthwhile, simply because for the treatment of CPTSD there is a lifetime need, and what we really need are people who will listen without prejudice and provide loving care and others who will show wisdom and guidance, a mentor. The need for therapists really highlights that our society lacks those people. I am interested in self administered neuro feedback, wondering if there are units that are affordable.
I just looked around the web, there are a number of units around, you can buy an EEG system for $1000 for a 16 channel setup, specialist neuro feedback systems start at $100. However, I would be cautious I just found this article in Psychology today. Learning to play the guitar might be more beneficial
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brain-myths/201302/read-paying-100s-neurofeedback-therapy-0
I didn't go down the self Nf road. I go to a clinic where they do a brain scan first. Mine found that certain areas are operating too slow, and one specific area is too fast.
They recommended 20 sessions then get another scan. I'm putting a lot of faith into this but I'm also an intensive talk therapy as well.
Neurofeedback helps repair the brain.
Therapy helps repair the mind.
Yes I've read that article but if u read the comments at the bottom there are a lot of people who have done Nf that are arguing against what he's saying.
I already play guitar and it's done nothing for recovery.
So I've just done my second session.
Massive placebo effect right now. My mood has lifted because I feel like I'm being pro active in recovery. I'm aware it's a temporary high, but I'm enjoying the rare positive mood while it lasts.
They said I shouldn't start noticing changes til around session 10.
I'm doing 5 sessions per week, so I'll update at the end of next week.
Just my two cents but imo it's beneficial to have a separate thread about your experiences as you go so we will have a detailed account for others who are considering it . My posts in the other thread are mixed in with the discussion about NF as a therapeutic tool so not as apparent how the process unfolds as yours will be. So please do keep us updated. I for one am really interested in your experience with it as you go along. :yes:
Wow, five sessions a week is alot. I did two sessions and found I was quite tired out. Are you working with a movie or images to stimulate a particular area?
I talked to my T about doing self NF and he suggested it was complex and something best done with a trained T. I am not overly versed in NF but given the charts and readings etc I am not certain it would be something I would undertake on my own anyway. I do see a lot of faddish info about NF on the internet which brings its credibility into question, but there is also a fair amount of clinical research which supports its use. See for example Bessel A. van der Kolk's trauma institute site - http://www.traumacenter.org/about/about_bessel.php. The Centre is doing quite a bit of research into the use of NF and trauma - http://www.traumacenter.org/clients/neurofeedback.php.
Hope the positive feelings stay! :yes:
Hi kizzie, I thought a new thread was a good idea because our last one did get a bit messy.
I'm watching a movie. They are increasing the areas working too slowly and decreasing the areas working too fast at the same time. They show me the results at the end which look really promising.
Yes I get exhausted during. It only goes for 20mins but i struggle to keep my eyes open.
I know 5 sessions per week is a lot but if the studies are anything to go by, if I do 40 sessions of this then I could see a complete change in 8 weeks which is amazing in cptsd recovery terms.
Please note I do NOT expect nf to be my only recovery tool. I do therapy but don't do the work needed to change. I want Nf to improve my motivation concentration and focus to be able to complete therapy tasks. If it reduces anxiety it would be an added bonus and I will be very grateful.
It is surprisingly tiring isn't it lol. I would go home and sleep for 2-3 hours afterward. I have to laugh as the movie I watched was "Mr. Deeds" and it was the silliest movie ever and there I was working hard to keep the screen lit up. :doh: The second one was "The Matrix" and I enjoyed seeing it again.
I agree that it is only one tool. I'd like to go back for some relational and/or somatic therapy since realizing I still have some deep fear of abandonment hanging about. Hard to find where I live now unfortunately. I did some biofeedback with this T and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy online and that helped a lot too. I just feel like the NF directly gets to the areas of the brain that are over or under functioning more quickly and effectively than talk or other kinds of therapy and then you have more brain function to combat this disorder which in turn may help with motivation, perseverance as you're hoping it will.
Hope it goes well and let us know how you're doing :yes:
1st positive result...
So I've always had very very bad pms, to the point of depression, intrusive thoughts and suicidal ideation before my period starts. I get severe mood swings and severe cramping.
First time ever, zero mood swings! Zero suicidal ideation! Zero depression! I did get some racing and intrusive thoughts but very minor compared to normal. I still have severe cramps but I think that's semi normal for women anyway.
The only change has been the Nf.
Unless it's a placebo...but I guess I'll find out in another month haha.
6th session
I've noticed some subtle changes. The first one is I feel more emotional than before. I feel like my feelings are more intense, which is a good thing but at the same time I'm really sad because i never realised how painfully lonely I am. I mean, I've always been lonely...but I've never FELT this lonely.
I am feeling sad. But I am not feeling depressed. I'm also quite * delighted that I'm not feeling depressed.
I still don't know if this elevated mood is because I know I'm helping myself, or if it's because of the neurofeedback. Either way, it's nice :)
Session 10
So I've decided to slow down the frequency of sessions because they said it takes time as well as consistent training, so I'm only going to do 3 a week from now on. It's important to rest, just like the gym.
I've done 10 sessions now, the most instant change was my mood... It is now completely stable. I feel like i did the first time I tried lexapro which worked great for a short time. It's only early days, but my mood has been stable for 2 weeks now which is pretty unheard of for me. It's a huge relief.
I feel emotions more then before.
I seem to be better at taking care of what I'm eating, even with tempting foods in the house. Still though, I'm known to swing between great self discipline to impulsive behaviour every 3-4 weeks so it's a bit early to tell if nf has helped.
I seem to be having deeper sleeps.
Apart from that, no other noticeable changes yet.
So I did session 11 this morning and I have been very tearful and emotional the last few days.
After consulting doctor Google, apparantly it's common for trauma survivors to release emotion during neurofeedback.
It's validating in a way because everybody has always doubted me. I even always questioned myself whether what I went thru was actual abuse or not. I guess this confirms it was.
I feel sad though, I was always kinda hoping I hadn't gone through anything and that I just had a few symptoms of cptsd and not the full blown disorder and that I could make a full recovery. Time to say goodbye to that fantasy.
Floodgates have been opened. Hello grieving. Goodbye sanity.
How are you doing now 89? I had a few EFs a few weeks back as I wrote about, but found it hard to tell if it was the NF or life stresses piling up or what (there were several things happening at the time). I do know I got through things much more quickly and less intensely than when I would have EFs in the past, as though there was more of me working away on getting through it.
If the floodgates have opened for you hopefully the NF will help you to tap into areas that weren't responding and avoid getting stuck in areas that were switched on high because of the trauma. :hug:
Session 12
I seem to be having negative reactions to the training. I am irritable and tearful, and my social anxiety and performance anxiety have increased which is the complete opposite of what I wanted to happen. I get home and just want to isolate, I don't want to be around people. I feel like the isolation comes from me starting to question my friendships. I'm getting a lot of anger as well. I feel really down but on a positive note I'm not depressed.
Some benefits - I'm concentrating better at work, getting better sleeps, not feeling depressed, and I had a comment from a work colleague that my memory was really good (my memory has been shocking for about 4 years).
There are benefits, hopefully the negative side effects will fade away.
Quote from: Kizzie on June 06, 2016, 03:41:14 PM
How are you doing now 89? I had a few EFs a few weeks back as I wrote about, but found it hard to tell if it was the NF or life stresses piling up or what (there were several things happening at the time). I do know I got through things much more quickly and less intensely than when I would have EFs in the past, as though there was more of me working away on getting through it.
If the floodgates have opened for you hopefully the NF will help you to tap into areas that weren't responding and avoid getting stuck in areas that were switched on high because of the trauma
Sorry I didn't see this kizzie before I posted last!
So I let my Nf practitioner know about the difficulties I'm having and he said it was because I am training the limbic system which is the emotional part of the brain so it makes sense I had an emotional reaction.
He changed the protocol though, and after today's session I did not feel any of the negative effects I felt over the last week.
It's made me really respect and trust that he knows what he is doing.
Have the positive effects you experienced still continuing even though you have stopped neurofeedback kizzie? Did you ever experience any negative effects?
Sorry, I was away so am just getting caught up. I do think the effects are continuing although it's subtle. I feel like I don't have to wrangle with myself as much, like there is more of me involved in dealing with things and less energy spent on pushing things down or away.
So I've done my 20 sessions of NF and I can't believe the change in me.vi finished about 2 weeks ago and still feel great. The benefits have been:
- Not dipping into the really deep lows of depression. My mood lifted within the first few sessions and has not dropped since.
- rumination GONE
- my relationship with my parents has improved
- not getting as offended by what people say
- ability to voice my opinion without feeling ashamed or guilty
- a nice but strange effect is that when I visualise my past it seems a lot further away than it used to
- I don't worry as much about having cptsd
I am going to continue to do NF until my brain can not possibly improve any more.
One negative side effect tho...
I'm finding therapy a bit harder because I feel so good at the moment I can't connect with some of the feelings I need to recognise and process in order to be able to move forward and grow, so my talk therapy has stalled a little.
Thanks for reading!
Just have a sec here but wanted to say congrats!! I really related to the improvements you noticed, especially when you said "when I visualise my past it seems a lot further away than it used to." That is what I feel like as well as I mentioned in my last post. Interesting! Keep on posting :yes:
I haven't been on this site for a while so I thought I'd update on the neurofeedback.
I ended up doing 40 sessions.
It was extremely helpful but it still didn't even scratch the surface of my problems.
For the price tag, an anti depressant is just as effective.
I am glad I did it, but the changes have not been that profound.
Good to know 89abc123, but sorry to hear this. I wonder if over time you will notice other or sustained changes? The main one I noticed as I mentioned in an earlier post was some distance between me and the trauma, as though it has been better integrated or something.
It really worked wonders for my impulse control issues. I no longer drink during the week and I've lost about 7-8kgs because I'm not reaching for food. Even when I do go for a binge session I don't eat whole packets of anything anymore...and junk food lasts longer in the fridge without me needing to eat it straight away. I think this was a mixture of neurofeedback and reading a book called brain over binge, I did put a lot of therapy work into my self control problems over the last year.
Aside from that my generalised anxiety is through the roof, I still can't concentrate, I'm very forgetful, and I suffer social anxiety which did not improve in the slightest. I can't handle stress and I feel very very emotional, very up and down. Of course, romantic relationships are non existant. None of these are new problems, I was just hoping the nf would settle them down a bit.
Did you end up getting any more neurofeedback Kizzie?