Hi everyone!
I was just listening to Richard Grannon talk about how we can develop N- traits as a result of abuse and how anger that is repressed can seep out in other ways that is provocative and draw attention towards you.
I felt like it applies to me, some times I get this build up in me and I just blurt things out and become provocative.
I also have a very dark sense of humour and have been told off many times because people think that I am too negative when In my own mind I'm only joking.
Need less to say this realisation fills me with shame but I want to get better, I just don't know how!
I had anger issues as a child when I would fly into a rage and beat other kids when ever we had an argument, just like how it was in my family.
If I were to show anger at home I would be abruptly interrupted and threatened into fear instead.
So whenever I start feeling the fire of rage inside me a gust of fear blows it out before it even has a chance to emerge.
I also used to feel sick and tired of always feeling frustrated with my parents so there is a sense of hopelessness whenever I try to feel angry about what they did to me.
It's like there's no point in being mad, it'll just get me worked up and feeling bad without doing me any good and I am so sick of feeling that way that I refuse to feel it again.
Has anyone got the slightest idea on how I can approach my anger?
I had a therapist that wanted me to connect with my anger but she only triggered me into EF's and re traumatised me so I realised I need to be careful about how I approach this.
Oh, hurtbeat, I'm sorry. That's a tough one, especially if you've already been retraumatised by a therapist. A lot of anger-defusing I've done has been in therapy.
Maybe with your dark sense of humour you can begin to observe exactly how people react to exactly what. Is it your tone of voice? your words? And try bit by bit to tone it down a bit, or at least in the company of people who object.
Also note that either on here or on Out Of the Fog (sister website) in the description of personality disorders, they say that everybody has some of these traits, so it doesn't automatically mean you have a PD. The same will apply here. OK, you and I and others here may have some N-traits and maybe anger comes out in the wrong place in the wrong way, but it's important to not go overboard on self-criticism or feelings of shame.
It's taken a long time, but I've learnt to remove myself from situations in which I tend to become provocative or am overly-criticising others. So if you feel a build up coming, maybe you can get out of the situation for a while?
One way I used to use to defuse anger was painting or colouring red. A few sheets of paper all red. There are lots of other ways, like yelling in your car, pounding cushions and pillows.
I've sometimes found it important to have a witness who validated what I went through and was feeling angry about. A witness in the present that is, not somebody out of my past. You'll find some of that on here, though before you write too many graphic details, check the guidelines on posting.
I don't know how many other people experience this and whether you do, but I've noticed sometimes that one emotion is on the surface but underneath is a completely different one. For instance under a veneer of anger, there can be a whole load of pain. Feeling pain and sadness can make us feel very vulnerable. In that kind of case, the anger is protective and it might be risky to try and 'get rid' of it. Again, in this kind of situation, maybe you need to remove yourself from the company of whoever you're with? Not necessarily forever but for a break. It's possible.
These are the things that have occurred to me. I may be completely off. Take anything useful and ignore the rest.
Not sure if this is going to be useful for you or not, because I am a person that's very easily prone towards feeling angry, but for me, what helps me to feel angry is to think about injustices and unfairness. All the things wrong with the world and all that, how everything is wrong, unjust unfair, and especially towards you. One of the most defining feelings I can remember ever since very young is anger. Anger over how things turned out to be this way, anger because of how I was treated, anger because no one bothered to step in and do something about our unhealthy family dynamic etc. At some level it's not even an angry at anyone thing or person, but it's an anger at everything. It's a very existential form of anger; there's no real target to direct it at because it doesn't exist. It's an anger at the very world in itself being the way it is.
Sounds to me like you are scared of your anger now, perhaps because it was so explosive and uncontrollable when you were young? What do you think is going to happen when you are angry? I have a very immense control of my anger, even when I do get angry. It seems odd, I know, because we associate anger with a lack of control, but I control exactly how much I let out. That's because I am also scared of what happens if I would relinquish my entire control of it.
Thanks for replying!
I'm on my phone now but I'll do my best to answer properly.
The thing about my negativity that triggers people might be improper timing and my "tone" (even in texts) though I make sure to use smileys.
I can get judgemental at times but it's been long since that happened, thank godness!
If I feel rage I immediately feel fear because of the consequences it has had.
Either a beating by an angered parent or loss of friendship.
It got to the point where I've hurt another child badly so there is also shame and feeling like I am a horrible person when angry.
If I am angry at someone I usually feel terribly guilty towards them even if it was justified.
Got lots of guilt trips from mother who didn't like it when I was mad at her for bullying me, I remember hating myself for it.
It's just too much to bear.
I've acted so improper in the past and didn't know how to resolve issues that I still find it hard to deal with conflicts where someone is angry.
I stopped fighting and let people walk all over me instead.
I got beat for "talking back" aswell so I also flashback into feeling scared when trying to defend myself verbally.
Even in discussions where everyone involved is calm but judgemental.
I guess i flashback too much to have time to feel anger. There's just so many other traumas attached to it.
hey, hurtbeat,
writing has helped me a lot, not only to let out my anger but to direct it to where or who it belongs. i'd get a notebook specifically for anger, and a red pen, and just begin whaling away on paper - it didn't matter what i said, what kinds of words i used, or even if my writing was legible. at times, i would just pound the pen on the paper or make scribbles with a lot of force, sometimes even ripping through the paper.
when a notebook was filled, i immediately walked it outdoors to the garbage can and threw the whole thing away. it was anger that i just needed to get rid of and saw no reason to keep it with me anymore. it also helped me get the anger out of my body, where i had been holding it (and which had been harming me). so, it was both an emotional and a physical release that didn't hurt me or anyone else.
just something that worked for me. i wish you the best with this. anger hurts us and others if we don't get it out in an appropriate way, but i've learned the hard way that it's necessary to get it out. it's a poison in our system if we attempt to hold it in all the time, especially anger from the past. stay safe and keep taking care of yourself as best you can.
I'll try that, sanmagic!
Hopefully I can muster up some anger for the task, or at least frustration.
Do you already feel angry when you do it or are you trying to feel angry like me?
Quote from: hurtbeat on March 03, 2017, 01:41:29 AM
Thanks for replying!
I'm on my phone now but I'll do my best to answer properly.
The thing about my negativity that triggers people might be improper timing and my "tone" (even in texts) though I make sure to use smileys.
I can get judgemental at times but it's been long since that happened, thank godness!
If I feel rage I immediately feel fear because of the consequences it has had.
Either a beating by an angered parent or loss of friendship.
It got to the point where I've hurt another child badly so there is also shame and feeling like I am a horrible person when angry.
If I am angry at someone I usually feel terribly guilty towards them even if it was justified.
Got lots of guilt trips from mother who didn't like it when I was mad at her for bullying me, I remember hating myself for it.
It's just too much to bear.
I've acted so improper in the past and didn't know how to resolve issues that I still find it hard to deal with conflicts where someone is angry.
I stopped fighting and let people walk all over me instead.
I got beat for "talking back" aswell so I also flashback into feeling scared when trying to defend myself verbally.
Even in discussions where everyone involved is calm but judgemental.
I guess i flashback too much to have time to feel anger. There's just so many other traumas attached to it.
No, I understand. I figured there must have been a sense of rejection associated with your anger so it may help to remember that you are alone and do it when alone. You may be angry at something, but whatever you are angry at is not present and cannot judge you for it.
Like was suggested below, I sometimes write a lot, though I write poetry. I also listen to music that speaks to how I feel and can help me get into that kind of state or help me enhance that state. I also think for people that hold back their anger, physical exercise is very important because it helps to trigger our body's need to exert excess energy that anger creates. That in itself can help to free up some of that anger inside.
It may also be worthwhile to discuss roleplaying with your therapist where they agree to act out the role of the person that you could be angry at but will not retaliate in the way you were used to. That may be very emotionally difficult but I think will help a lot in rewiring your current negative patterns surrounding anger.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned assertiveness here. Not that I'm a walking advertisement for it. :no:
I have a theory that if I were to begin to be assertive, I might start chipping away at everyday annoyances and that would start to weaken the backlog of rage from childhood onwards.
For those not in the know, assertiveness involves a simple declaration of feelings, eg. "When you say/do that, I feel this..."
My theory has yet to be tested. Not that nothing gets to me these days -- I feel sad just waking up -- but I never feel justified in making an "I feel" statement.
Come to think of it, I've always done it like this:
Someone says or does something that bothers me. I consider whether I have the right to be assertive. The moment passes.
God forbid I should make an assertive riposte and have the Other Person say: "Oh you silly billy, you..." while patting me on the head.
Entropic: I hate to be the one that shoots down every suggestion but I already tried thinking about how I am alone and no one can judge.
I partly worry that my neighbours will hear me though I try not to care and has gotten more and more relaxed about making noise but it still bugs me.
Also I was subjected to religious abuse (or whatever it's called) so I always feel that someone (god?) is always watching and judging me, it's very hard to shake that feeling.
I even fake smiles through my pain when I'm alone, it's so stupid...
I tried to exercise when I came down with my first depression and felt worse every time emotionally though my body felt a bit refreshed.
Suppose freeze types like me just can't stand "being in their bodies" for long?
I've tried many things, I've tried having "the right attitude" but I don't know.. I get the feeling I need to start somewhere else.
Candid: I recognize over- thinking and then letting the moment pass, it should be a knee jerk reaction to just say: "hey! that's not very nice!" or something like that.
I find that I get more assertive around people that makes me feel comfortable because I know that it's highly unlikely that they will attack me for it.
I'm sorry these suggestions don't work for you. For what it's worth I consider myself to be fight/freeze in that order so I fully understand how difficult it can be to activate yourself once the freeze effect sets in. I can only speak for how it works for me and how I access anger since it's something I so very easily.
Like I wrote, the biggest triggers are things I perceive to be various forms of injustice. Learning to recognize your boundaries could help to eg where does my will begin and end?
No worries, you tried and I am thankful for it :hug:
I bet the "fight" part of you makes it easier to exercise, just like many other fight types that I've met :)
I think I started of as "flight" and I used to enjoy horseback riding because it didn't really feel like exercise, too bad it's too expensive for me.
I've been looking for similar fun things to do that doesn't make me focus on the exercise, hopefully I'll buy me a new bike this summer since I love bike riding.
Though I got sidetracked now about exercise, it never made me release my anger but kept me somewhat healthy :)
Quote from: hurtbeat on March 03, 2017, 05:01:21 PMI always feel that someone (god?) is always watching and judging me
I'm judge, jury and hangman all by myself without reference to god. When I'm crying I see my sister screwing up her face and going "waaaaah!" at me, as she did in childhood. That's bad enough, but anger is even worse because I get irritable -- always at H -- and that makes me dislike myself. I know it isn't fair but I can't seem to help it. Luckily for me he can take it, but I judge
myself.
QuoteSuppose freeze types like me just can't stand "being in their bodies" for long?
I'm a freeze-fawn, and the only way I can stop endless exhausting rumination is by sitting on the internet all day. And often, like now, I'm quaffing wine as well.
H and I went to see his grandmother for her 95th birthday recently, and I was in such a bad state we sat outside in the car for a long time. Then along came some other guests and they couldn't have missed us, so we opened our doors as if we'd just got there and I greeted them with a big fake smile and a cheery greeting. I've tried to explain to H that most of my life now is an acting job, how tiring that is and how I resent it, and that was the day he actually got it.
QuoteI've tried many things, I've tried having "the right attitude" but I don't know.. I get the feeling I need to start somewhere else.
I'm reaching that conclusion too. I'm thinking "somewhere else" will become clear when (when??? when???) I finally see the trauma therapist, which is like counting on a miracle. So I'm impatient for that but at the same time it occurs to me s/he may not be the Person Who Can Put Me Together In An Acceptable Way... so maybe the hope (and fear) now is better than how I'm going to feel when I actually meet him or her. I have a lot of anxiety about this.
QuoteI recognize over- thinking and then letting the moment pass, it should be a knee jerk reaction to just say: "hey! that's not very nice!" or something like that.
I'm coming around to the idea that it might be best to state my feelings whenever I'm uncomfortable instead of just when I'm angry. It's not like I've got anything (or anyone) to lose. The alternative is moody silence, my go-to for far too long now.
QuoteI find that I get more assertive around people that makes me feel comfortable because I know that it's highly unlikely that they will attack me for it.
They sound like good people to practise with. No one in my present very small orbit is likely to get nasty with me either, but I'm uncomfortable with MIL because we're in her house and I do practically nothing in terms of food preparation or household maintenance. She is the soul of discretion but that unsettles me because I'm not used to it; I expect to be criticised at every turn. I just want H and I to get our own place but I despair of that (MIL does everything for us) and I don't know how long he and I will get on, either. So I'm pretty much at the end of my rope.
Quote from: hurtbeat on March 03, 2017, 05:26:58 PM
No worries, you tried and I am thankful for it :hug:
I bet the "fight" part of you makes it easier to exercise, just like many other fight types that I've met :)
I think I started of as "flight" and I used to enjoy horseback riding because it didn't really feel like exercise, too bad it's too expensive for me.
I've been looking for similar fun things to do that doesn't make me focus on the exercise, hopefully I'll buy me a new bike this summer since I love bike riding.
Though I got sidetracked now about exercise, it never made me release my anger but kept me somewhat healthy :)
I do like explosive kinds of exercises, yes, though I was not per se a naturally active child. The freeze aspect was very strongly reinforced as a teenager, because I realized I couldn't fight this woman, so I withdrew by reading lots of books etc. I also never liked physical exercise because it meant I had to feel in touch with myself and my body and my body was a great source of discomfort.
So the reason why I suggested exercise is that it can help to get in touch with that fighting spirit. Maybe try contact sports or team-oriented sports?
Entropic: I used to practice a contact sport but it wasn't for me, too much pain and brute force.
I'd love to dance some day when I feel better!
Candid: I sit on the internet all day too, it's just to painful to be irl.
When I work I always sneak an earphone in my ear from underneath my shirt so I can listen to podcasts and don't have to think about my boring job.
Always somewhere else in my head in order to feel able to be partly present.
Don't get me started on dinners and parties, they are the worst!
I always leave early, exhausted from being present and pretending to be normal.
Pete Walker says that freeze types are really hard to treat because they generally don't see what's wrong and pull away, but what about us who understands that we have CPTSD?
I suppose that the hardest part for us will be the seemingly simple task of removing the fog of dissociation between our bodies and spirits.. or something like that.
Some everyday practice to make it feel worth wile to stay present in our bodies and feel the feels.
I also tend to wait for that faithful day when everything will become clear and I will start to rapidly change into another whole new me who is extrovert and happy.
It never happens and even when I know a good treatment that might make me feel better I always quit as soon as the fantasy of getting better wears off.
Omg.. I just realized have become my mother :(
She would always go for homeopathic magic treatments and say that it "saved her life" and I was always amazed of how she managed to fool herself every time and always go back to feeling bad again.
She has lost a lot of money with her "magical thinking" ("if i take this one pill and say the right things everything in my life will work out fine").
I don't really have any advice for when everything in your head builds a prison you just can't escape from, I'm in there myself.
All right, I understand. I'm very competitive so if it would be a sport it's definitely a contact sport for me. Anyway you wrote this:
"I also tend to wait for that faithful day when everything will become clear and I will start to rapidly change into another whole new me who is extrovert and happy."
I think this is an important piece to the puzzle because sometimes waiting simply isn't going to give us what we want but only actively chasing it will. How can we change if we don't try to create an action for change? With no movement everything stands at a standstill.
And for someone scared of movement which it sounds like you are, hence the issues with expressing anger, acting out obviously becomes very difficult.
At that point I think it's worthwhile to ask ourselves what we gain vs what we lose from change and what we are scared of to actually happen. Typically people tend to get stuck in a situation where you have nothing to lose if you don't act because the situation wouldn't be any different anyway.
That's important to remember when we are scared of moving forward.
hey, hurtbeat,
when i would sit down to write, it wasn't necessarily because i was feeling anger in the moment, but because i knew the anger was in there and it was hurting me and it was important to get it out of me. so, i'd just start writing whatever came to mind, and it would kind of take on a life of its own. what i had to do was allow that life to happen, no matter what i had been taught in church, by my folks, and just let the vitriol, the venom, the poison to come out whatever way it decided to show itself. i've written what others might think were horrible things about my daughter, my parents, and others who have hurt me, but somewhere along the line i learned that if it comes to mind, it's valid, and it deserves to be put on paper. it's strength and ugliness had been absorbed by my body and it was imperative that it be released in whatever form it appeared in my mind. some of it was very brutal stuff. that's why i'd walk that filled notebook out to the trash as soon as it was filled. i didn't want it anywhere near me.
as far as physical letting out of anger, well my bed has taken a lot of punching. once i even felt i needed to do stabbing motions, used a metal nail file for that on my bed. the force of my anger was so strong that i actually bent it! physical exercise never did it for me, tho, but this pounding/punching where i was picturing or thinking about who i felt anger toward helped a lot. lots of energy expended at times, but i felt so much better afterward. i have found that, for me, to be focused on who or what i was angry at or about was key to my process. this wasn't generic anger - it had a reason.
those fateful days will come, when something becomes clear, but i don't think it will be all in one day. this is a process, and, as such, it takes time and goes in pieces. piece by piece, however, things will begin looking clearer, less hazy, and brighter. your day to dance will come!
keep writing, keep realizing, keep staying open to what will be best for you to keep moving. movement is progress, even if sometimes we move backward. you'll get there! big hug to you!
It sounds as if sanmagic was able to give you an idea that you can work with. So that's good! Step by little step we progress and move forward.
I know all about feeling guilty about expressing anger or annoyance or even just setting a limit. But I do try to keep going setting limits in the present and expressing anger at current annoyances. That helps to not add to all the stuff out of the past and compound the trauma. It helps me to not continue to feel like a victim. The more I practise doing it and not feeling guilty, the easier it gets. It can help to tell somebody, like post it here and we'll cheer for you!
I posted before that you might have another feeling under your anger, I wondered about pain. You write yourself in your second post that it's fear behind or mixed in with your anger issues. Based on my experience, I'd say be really careful and go slowly. I don't know if you have a therapist at the moment or are looking for one? You don't have to answer that! I think a therapist who really understood C-PTSD issues could help you through this. If you get enough ideas and support here in the forum, that's great! I'd be really happy for you. But it sounds more like a problem where a good therapist would be helpful.
All the best with it. And keep posting if you want. I'm sure more people than me would like to hear how you're doing with this topic.
Entropic: I've been reading and writing a lot about CPTSD now in order to try and figure out my mess of tangled emotions.
I've also asked a psychologist to refer me to a centre that specialises in PTSD and told me that they also were familiar with CPTSD when I emailed them.
Still waiting for their response but it's early days yet.
Though I guess I tend to obsess a bit and have constantly been thinking about coping with CPTSD and how to manage, now I'm depressed again because of it.
Probably because of perfectionism that tells me that if I don't concentrate enough on resolving my CPTSD then I have failed and I am a failure and now I hate myself instead.
So I suppose I actually need to step back a bit for now, luckily I got plans this weekend and will meet up with friends for quality time that I am comfortable with.
Hopefully this will take my mind off my ruminations over CPTSD and bring some simple joy into my adrenalised system.
I guess that what I tried to say when I wrote that I wait for the day when everything will get better is that it is a fantasy that keeps me going whether I have a treatment in mind or not.
For some time there wasn't much for me to do since I didn't know about CPTSD and the only therapy available didn't work for me, I had to wait and do research in order to figure out what I needed.
I've been through many diagnoses and tried to apply them to me and get whatever treatment they had to offer, I've taken medicine against bipolar disease and ADHD but it wasn't for me.
I don't know... trying isn't always enough.
Inner critic is screaming at me right now so I'm going to go lie down for a bit now.
I guess that's my problem, my perfectionism turns my anger towards myself.
I don't really have bad feelings against anyone except myself, so if I were to write my anger down then I would write an essay on my flaws and why I should punish myself.
I know I tried to define what others did wrong but the anger is always, always directed at me.
Ok, I wrote about my self hatred and it turned into sadness because I had to grow up so fast and hold my family together.
It didn't turn into a suicide letter as I had expected.
Thanks for your advice sanmagic :)
I will continue to write about my self hatred that isn't actually self hatred.
Did you try cbt to deal with the critic? Saying no to it etc, no I won't let you beat me up again.
Again I don't struggle much with an inner critic because my psyche is very dominated by an outer one, but one step to dealing with the inner critic is to say no.
hey, hurtbeat, i think that's a big realization that you pulled out of the hat - that the self-hatred you're writing about isn't really self-hatred at all! that's a big step, to my mind. i hope you enjoy your weekend, get away from all this for a bit. when you do decide to get back to writing, hopefully you'll find more pos. surprises for yourself - like where that hatred really belongs, etc. well done! big hug to you.
Thanks for the recognition san! ^^ <3
I think this is a breakthrough myself actually as I never had any way of venting my deepest anger before.
Entropic: I am actually pretty good at turning the critics words around though not always in stressful situations when I drown in EF's.
I hope that you will manage to get away from your critic soon and make the best out of your situation as well!