Out of the Storm

Some days when I'm all at sea I want to write down what I'm thinking and feeling, sometimes I have insights that feel very important at the time but later seem insignificant. I don't seem to 'get' the bigger picture very easily.

What this hopefully is is a way to record my journey. By it being public it might make me keep it more concise, manageable and readable than my private written ramblings turn in to.

No major things to write today. Just a day ahead to fill, free time sometimes the hardest.

you know, s&b, sometimes it works the other way, too.  i can't tell you how many times i've begun writing, seemingly insignificant things come out that end up being very important and do help me see the big picture more easily.

i admire your courage at taking this step.  i've found it extremely helpful to put my 'stuff' out here and allow others to hear me, give me their own insights, and help me see the big picture when i can't always do it by myself. 

you're on your way at a different level now.  well done.  sending love and hugs to you.

Thanks sanmagic7. I have a problem where I write too many small notes and then I can't keep track of them! Occasionally I do re-read things though and some topics/themes have a habit of coming up again and again don't  they?

This post is to remember how I felt tonight before, during and after attending a class.

---

I went to a class tonight that's important to me. I'm describing how it went below.

Before class
------------

The class has just started back after summer break. It's an adult learning class.
I've skipped it before because of feeling just too nervous at the thought of being around people.

It is very laid back and only nice people go, but I still get very stressed before I go.

Before I went in the adrenaline was coursing through me. I was very tense.
I avoid going in early just to avoid chatting to people beforehand.

I have no problems with these people I'm just very nervous. At the same time I think I am going to expose myself as a horrible person, somehow, as the horrible person in the room.
Maybe by inadvertantly saying something out loud that will expose me as a freak or a weirdo. I know rationally this is not true but I can't stop feeling that way.

I remember that feelings are just that, and will pass, and no-one else can see them.

I want to feel like I have some semblance of normality and I'm not just hiding away with these feelings.
But this is so intense and it can't be right and I feel like might have to stop coming here.
That would mean I could not learn this subject and I want so much to keep doing it.

During class
------------

The class was kind of relaxed. Some different people than before, some the same, but overall the same format and vibe as usual.
Kind of comforable.
I managed not to let my thoughts race and I didn't get triggered into a flashback.
I nearly did at one point but I took a mental step back and was able to carry on.
It was nothing major, a really minor thing the person next to me did or said, I can't even remember now.
We all have to speak as part of this class and I find it very hard to speak when I'm flashing back. It has happened before in this class and it is horrible.

I had a couple of moments where my ICr was telling me the people opposite were making comments about me.
Logically I feel sure that they weren't.
I took that as something I recognise but don't validate - I know it is my brain tricking me.
I was able to put that aside and (almost) forget about it, at least for the moment it was happening.
It disturbs me that I have these delusions to the point of paranoia. They scare me.


After class
-----------

On my way home after I was thinking how nice it was to get through that without any episodes. I
then found myself strongly berating myself for making such a big deal about something that is not even a problem.
My panic, fear, nerves, phobia - all made up by me! It is all in my mind and nothing else is causing it! It's all me.
I called myself a name that I wouldn't call someone else, unless they really had done horrible to deserve it.

Obviously my ICr was coming out to play and couldn't stand I had done something nice. This happens a lot.

That is what is driving me crazy, because when things go well I am suddenly horrible to myself.
Like I can't allow myself to have it easy, the right way, the good way. Sabotaging myself.
I refuse to put up with it any more. But learning how to deal with this is a very hard task.

Thankfully now I have books, this forum, and maybe other forms of support to come (I hope).
I know I don't have to be in ignorance of the causes of my suffering any more and I know I don't have to put it down to stupidity and hopefully I don't have to be a slave my whole life to it. I want to feel alive.

Silencing my ICr is my task number one. The big priority. He is the one who rears up and roars just when everything is going well.
Little big nights like tonight let me explore how my knowledge of these concepts is working in practice.
It is the safest night out I can imagine and I still struggle yet I am encouraged I can finally rationalise these things at least to an extent and get a measure of control of them. ??

Had some time to reflect on this so I decided to learn more about the outer critic.

I thought I had understood the inner critic but didn't know what the outer critic meant although i had some assumptions.

Well, it turns out I was completely wrong about the outer critic. I didn't realise that the outer critic is constantly berating others. I wrongly assumed it was like a memory voice of my past critics repeating the put downs I always had. Totally wrong.

If I am honest I have to admit there is a large part of me that does this (outer critic stuff). I think this might go a way to explaining my social anxiety. In short, if I am always frustrated and angry about having to cooperate with others (which might just mean being around them!) then it stands to reason I will feel some shame about this. Outer critic triggering (?) inner critic. Nice!

Pete Walker gave an example of the outer critic that was enlightening but also scary, something about a toilet roll holder not being hung the right way. Scary because Pete seemed to suggest the particular guy in the example was a no-hoper, which is an attitude I  haven't seen in his book so far.

If I am honest I can say that in my upbringing and background the acceptable way to deal with vulnerability was by fighting.

So, it turns out I may not be the place in the 4 fs I thought I was. There is almost certainly more fight in me than I realise.

I am only just learning about the language. Still in the process of understanding triggering and emotional flashback. They are still brand new terms to me.

I read another post on the board where someone said that to help with this they labelled any unpleasant feelings as an ef. I think I will go with this. Any lingering, unexplained negative state of emotions can be an ef.

Maybe I will learn more and prove myself wrong. That's fine.

QuoteMaybe I will learn more and prove myself wrong. That's fine.

:thumbup: each of our journeys is highly personal. Do what works for you!  :yes:

Thanks so much Three Roses  :)

This is what recovery feels like to me. A gradual lifting of the denial I've been in for so long to be confronted with the reality of my situation and decisions and a despondency about my extreme gloominess!

I hope nobody reads this looking for a feel good story.

Sticking with it because it's better than being falsely optimistic about stuff.

In some ways I don't know why I am writing here.

I think it's because I read posts from others and I recognise so well what people here are experiencing.

Freeze, panic, avoidance. All these 3 are and have been massive in my life.

I can be outwardly normal. Then I can flip. But I suppose everyone here feels that way.

I know it sounds pretty pompous but at least if I leave a record here other people might read it and recognise some things.

I have a massive week coming up for me this week. I plan to disclose a thing I have been hiding for 35+ years. A thing some people might consider irrelevant or water under the bridge.

I've carried this thing. It feels like a hard stone in me. But I'm going to share it. I know it wasn't my fault, I'm not ashamed to tell it. I need another human to tell me I can drop the shame and guilt because I can't do it myself.

The weird thing is I am almost at peace with it. I have had it so long. I think I forgive the person and I think I can understand some things a lot clearer.

But it's a kind of evil. The way this stuff happens. I recognise it and i will do my best to stop it.

If i ever get to a place where i am able to help others that is what I want to do.

I think I may be strong enough to help others after I have made the first steps to deal with it myself.

But who knows? I am saying this now but yesterday thought i was heading for a full breakdown. So much panic. That has left me alone for a bit now.

I even managed to watch a full movie yesterday from beginning to end. My attention span has been so short for so long I usually find even that stressful. I am a complete stress head!

I often read posts in the forum and find so much in common but I am reluctant to join in. Maybe it's because I'm a man? Probably it's because I feel safer in the background. I wish it wasn't like that.

I really envy women. Women seem able to open up emotionally and be social. Most of the men I know are kind of locked in themselves. Massive generalisation there, i know! Sorry.

But I can just put this here and leave it for now. I am praying (I am not religious) that I have the courage to do this thing. I think I will. Once I have decided on something I usually am pretty good.

But I had to have half last week off work because of the old feelings trying to take over. They pretty much did. They are trying to fight me on this  :no:


OK enough of this. If you are reading this and any of it makes sense then please know there is a whole community here to help. If you are like me you might need time to come to terms even with this simple fact. I still can't quite understand what a great thing we have here. It's because i feel i don't deserve it.

Nobody deserves to live in this mindset. It's because of this forum I have finally had the way to understand this. To internalise it.

It takes a lot of time though. Probably years.

But small steps are better than no steps and I totally want to be on the side of anyone experiencing anything remotely like this. I am in spirit but I can't always show it.

SaB.

I finally told another human (in person) what had happened. She agreed it was not normal and it can have an effect. Other than that I am a little bit proud of myself that i was able to walk into that surgery and say that  :applause:

I vowed after opening up here a short time ago, which was the first time I had told anyone, I would do this. The replies spurred me on.

I was meant to be seeing a therapist but between the doctor, the psych and myself we have agreed the time might not be right. I found myself at crisis point last Friday and resolved to tell this doctor after speaking on the phone. I will keep the therapy option open and will speak to the psych. directly soon.

 :cheer: cheering you on from the sidelines

Mood swings are being really hard on me now. I hardly got anything done at work today. I feel kind of ok now. Flat. As always. Just an hour ago I was convinced things couldn't get any worse. I really need to get better at recognising my mood and triggers.

I think maybe I have been repressing emotions for too long. Now I'm letting them back in again sometimes it feels like a flood.

I've realised I still feel alone, regardless of my mood. When I'm flat and unaffected I'm ok with it. When I'm feeling things it's like I've woken up to how isolated I feel, how I've made myself. That brings shame feelings with it. I'm learning through reading how to deal with these things and I cope I can learn to cope better. It's just when I'm in the middle of it it feels so overwhelming.

Friday today so lots of rest for me at the weekend. Reading, taking it easy, hopefully not feeling too sharp on myself.

I don't know what to write. I don't feel as stressed as I used to. Anxiety is still present all the time. I'm trying to not let it erupt in to panic attacks, but I had one today.

I'm still trying to educate myself. There is so much to read through. I'm learning a bit at a time. Sometimes it feels the more I learn the more I realise how damaged I am. But I think I'd rather that than live in the dark about it.  I feel a great amount of sympathy for abuse survivors. It's hard to put in to words. I feel also a huge gratitude for the help and kindness of this forum and that it exists at all.

Anxiety and short term thinking are still very prevalent in my life. I tend to think in blocks of hours, not days or weeks or years. Makes decision making and planning difficult. I feel like I last logged in here years ago. It may have been a month or maybe two.

I'm still tough on myself too. Telling myself I have to just grow up.

My NHS therapy appointment finally came through. For Monday.
My recovery has been on a back burner while I cope with the business of living.

I'm very anxious tonight. I like being on my own but when dealing with anxiety it's not so nice.

Got an agreement of cPtsd from the psychologist. Waited 2 years to see that person!

Got an agreement of Ptsd from psychiatrist. Psychologist wants me to persuade the psychiatrist of cPtsd. I'm okay with that but don't know when I will see the psychiatrist again (no appointment scheduled).

Being referred to a 12 week course that might be helpful. No date on that.

Staying off booze and avoiding obviously triggering situations but still struggling with triggering and flashbacks and emotional instability in general. Think maybe my emotions have been stuffed for so long that they are seeping out the cracks. I'm trying to be with them.

Read a wonderful thing this morning "Don't just do something, sit there", which turns the whole well known saying on its head. I think it's a great message for me. Just site there.

Still finding it difficult to sit with feelings instead of avoidance behaviour like I've done up to now.

I feel like I'm always running from something.

Also can't concentrate or settle to a book or movie which is a shame because I like them a lot.

All this awareness not greatly serving me so far but I have to stick with it. The loneliness is the worst bit but I know it will get better if I stick at it and try to make friends slowly.

My emotions are all over the place and a big day memory wise tomorrow but I'm still here plugging away.

Hi SharpandBlunt, Well done for sitting with feelings instead of avoiding - hope you cope ok with your big day tomorrow.  Well done for still plugging away.  Just wanted to wish you well with everything.
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope  :)

My main issue seems still to be avoidance and disassociation. I'm reading about it in order to learn how to control it.

My day yesterday was tough and I got through it!

It's nice to feel that sometimes, just that little bit of light, or progress. Feeling together even if only for a minute.

It's such a good thing to know that this board exists. Thank you again  :)

Hi SharpAndBlunt,
Glad you got through yesterday, even though it was tough.  Well done.  I agree with you, it is nice to feel some light or some progress. 
Hope  :)

QuoteMy day yesterday was tough and I got through it!

:cheer: :applause: :hug:

Possible mild TW
:fallingbricks:
I am feeling very angry at the way I have been treated. I deliberately made myself small since i was very young in order to protect myself. I took an interest in small things, so now instead of fulfilling my potential I am stuck doing small things. If I had been nurtured and secure i could have taken an interest in worldly things, things that can make a difference, and could be living a worthwhile life, doing adult things for the world.

I have great shame that I've wasted my potential. And I have further shame because I know people have it worse than me and I know people had it worse than I had.

At the same time, I have met people who are just like me but who haven't been through what I have and they are happy and thriving. It has killed what could have been fun friendships because I can't stand their happiness and success. It reminds me of my own failure.

These emotions may be temporary but they are very powerful and I get very angry at the abandonment I felt and still feel. That in turn makes me feel childish which pours fuel on the fire of shameful feelings.

It ends in a kind of paralysis. Knowing I am wrong to feel this way but unable to do anything about the deluge of emotions when it hits.

I know the key is self compassion. But I feel so alone that I don't see that it can do anything except help me feel better in the short term. Which is no doubt enough. I just know that this feeling and drowning sensation will always come back and in the long term I am a kind of social loner or outcast.

Both my parents were cruel. My M at least was aware of hers and tried to overcome it or at least mitigate it. My F was like a boxer. Trying to win his love was like being in the ring with him. He'd hold me at arms length until I was exhausted then just give me the merest of shoves to make me fall over. This made me stop trying eventually but I feel it is a very cruel way to do it.
I wonder if this is all just self pity on my part. I also believe it's important to honour the hurts done to. So, I don't know.

Hi SharpAndBlunt,
I hope you don't mind my saying that I think the behaviour of your F sounds cruel - I am sorry you had to experience that from you F.  Sending you a supportive hug, if that's ok.   :hug:  I am sorry to hear that both your parents were cruel.  You are expressing your emotions, and I hope that you find that helpful.  Feeling angry - understandable. 
Now I've written that, I feel that I may have intruded in your Journal, so apologies if I have - but I just wanted to express some support towards you.   :grouphug:
Hope  :)

Hi Hope, thank you for writing and I want you to know that you are not intruding in my journal. I often write here when I feel I can't add anything to the wider forum.

I would like to be more active in other threads too but right now it is difficult for me.

I agree that his behaviour was cruel. Trying to come to terms with that and forgive him and M and deal with my own recovery is overwhelming - I know you and everyone here knows how that is.

It's really nice to have support. Thank you :grouphug:

Yesterday had first therapy session and today feeling horrible. I want to run away from the feelings. I suppose this is normal. I also feel a bit guilty because I'm recognising traits in myself I've inherited or learned from my F. Why this should make me feel guilty I don't know yet. I read it is normal to feel bad especially at the beginning and that this should improve.

TW. Abandonment

For me, so much of this is about feelings.

About shame of expressing a need to be loved and belong.

About feeling deficient by doing so. About being made into a mascot for doing so, only to be very quickly dropped again.

Every feeling now results in a huge snowball of shame. First therapy session eventually the other day and maybe (I hope?) things might finally be moving.

Why fill a small house with so many kids if not through a desire to love them? I feel guilty for saying this. Like I'm giving them up. I feel like I was only born because of their religion. I was a burden on them imposed by stupid rules made by stupid men who don't know anything about human love. I should just be happy to be alive and forget about all their abandonment.

In some way this is the advice I've been subtly getting all my life. So, in the only way that matters to me i was told I don't have family and certainly not to expect anything from them.

TW : descriptions of low self worth

As part of becoming mindful of my feelings and emotions I am naturally becoming aware of my thought processes and how I beat myself up. I don't deserve it, I'm not this important, it makes me ashamed to be so egotistical. But, I have lived like this for so long. I'm putting a sequence of events that took place in my head over half an hour as a record of how I usually treat myself and how I am usually not even aware of it.

Meeting with boss about big work project. It is all going well. He is happy with the progress and so am I. It will be a genuine improvement to the company. All my achievement.

Felt nervous and restless after.

During the meeting I noticed a woman outside who looked away. Felt slighted. Glad to be not interacting at the same time. I said hello to her this morning.

Decided to distract myself for 10 minutes to decompress with an app on the phone that's my hobby.

Felt sad that I had to withdraw from class doing the hobby because I'd get too wound up to go and do it.

Felt sad that the teacher is no longer sending me the notes. I will fall behind the class and they will keep going ahead without me. They will succeed and I will fail (again)

Thought about everything else I've failed at. Work, career, education, relationships. That brought a judgement of what a * childhood I survived (me and many others).

Felt an admiration for a colleague from the class. Consequently felt bad I could no longer be their equal (I have failed)

Felt physically cold and trembly. I wonder if this could be anger? I have tremendous physical tension.

Started thinking that self care is about denying what i want. I want to go back to class, but I can't, it's making me sick. But to give it up, means I fail, which contributes to low self worth. Therefore, self care results for me in low self worth. Either that or I am wrong. Either way I suspect there is a cognitive failure or fallacy going on here. I am simply thinking wrong.

I want so much to be well NOW, that I have been in denial that I am not well at all. In order to be better I have to take the pain of not being well. I am not good at accepting this.

Realise my thoughts are tumbling and ask myself, What is this? I do this all the time. I then isolate so that when I am alone no one will notice and I won't feel ashamed. When I'm with others, I can't hide this. They usually are bemused or amused. I can't communicate this distress is real, even though i know it may well be * that is causing it. I feel more ashamed, and the cycle gets worse.



I can kind of recognise that my fear of failure is linked to abandonment. I was taught to be very fearful of failure and my self worth was based on not failing. It still is, though I recognise the non truth in there.

I can understand that bit. But the successful meeting with my boss triggering feelings of inadequacy?
I get it too with friends and colleagues.

I am quite quite sick of my mental processes which are clearly not serving me. I'd trapped, and the prison is my mind and I helped build it myself. There is more shame here and I feel inadequate. As a grown man I feel like I should laugh it off. I can't be who I want to be. Is it that simple? I will never find answers right now so I should probably stop trying.

Hi, SharpAndBlunt.

I have found myself being drawn to your posts recently, so I have dipped into your journal. I hope that is OK.

As I suspected, I can relate very much to everything you say. The history of violence and emotional neglect and abuse that leads to shame and abandonment and to beating oneself up all the time. The contorted mess of thoughts that are ever present are just so exhausting.  It really does seem too much to bear. We just keep trying, and I hope so much that we find some peace in our heads, sooner rather than later.

Take care.

Libby.

Okay, I too feel a bit odd to butt in to your journal, but like Libby183 your entry resonated here as well and I feel like saying a couple things, if that's alright.

I guess what most hit me was your expression of low self-worth and the role of abandonment, then the cycles that set in motion. And how it's all so pitifully confusing. Me too, and I'm not going to beat myself up anymore about feeling I'm using that as a crutch to explain my 'failures'. The abandonment plus other abuses from multiple people -- yes I could use that as a crutch; except that was my whole life for so long and really has so often inhibited all my tries at self-compassion, setting in motion yet another cycle. It's truly maddening and when in that mood, I can be very disoriented and rambling, too.

You end by wondering about the urge to "stop trying". Yep, that's part of my cycle as well. It's also vicious, especially as I have no one other than my therapist I can feel safe sharing about this trait that others see as weakness or outright failure. Still, somehow, my wondering about 'stop trying' cycles back to an equal discomfort with just dropping my quest to better understand and do what I can to take steps while resisting the urge to look for giant leaps instead. That's where the self-compassion, the re-parenting as it's sometimes called, seems important.

Thanks Libby and woodsgnome and Hope. For your insights and support.

By yesterday evening I had almost completely dissociated. I still am. My brain is protecting itself. It might be days or hours it lasts, I don't know yet.

The whole cycle is indeed painful and confusing.

I know people here 'get it' which is why I feel safe posting here and why I'm happy for people to post here too. It's nice that you do.

Like you Libby I wish we could all find peace of mind.  :hug: to all.

Wishing us all all the best.

I have been in an emotional freeze since January 9 and now I'm beginning to thaw. 3 days. That seems about normal for me.

I don't have the feelings of joy or exuberance I usually get on a thaw, this time it's tempered by the sure knowledge that this is a cycle. It will happen again.

Although I said I was in an emotional freeze actually what I think I meant was I was at an absolute low. Maybe I think of it as a freeze because the way I interact with people seems cold during that time. Life seems copeable with, that way. Now, I have to deal with uncertainty every minute again.

One of the hardest things for me to deal with is the idea that being isolated, alone, emotionally depressed, is not that bad. It's an understandable state albeit limited and I can certainly cope with it.

I want to be alive and live though, I need to work and have hobbies. But when I am hurting (not depressed) these things seem impossible to do with any grace. I lost all fun, grace or cheek or charm or whatever. I became a different person, concerned only with myself, pre occupied and absent. People can make comments about me, as if I am not there, comments I might even make about another, if they were behaving how I behave. If I was well and feeling tired and uncharitable. But, these comments I can hear, because I am there. I'm just locked inside. It's such a weakness. It's not a valued trait, especially in a male. It maybe seems trivial now I describe it. But at the time the carelessness hurts all the more. Knowing that something so easy is out of my reach. I'm outcast.

I used to wonder why people got bullied but now I know it's when they don't have the strength to fight any more but have no choice but to carry on they are vulnerable to the slightest knock and it becomes an ever decreasing circle.

There are short term solutions for this. Acting out, anger, blame.

But ultimately I want to learn the compassion for myself that prevents this in the first place.

I think there are issues here to do with my true self, being a mascot, people pleasing, and acting out. I also am aware that people can 'see through' my behaviour as if it is a choice (easy for them to say) and denigrate and minimise it. I have not been above doing that myself in the past. It seems such a reasonable and convenient way to deal with the issue. I also know it is my responsibility to fix. Sigh. To the picking up and starting again. Internal drama, not as interesting as on TV.

HI SharpAndBlunt,
I was struck by your description of being 'locked inside' and that you thought that was such a weakness.  I wondered if perhaps it's a strength of sorts, i.e. that you're protecting yourself - I hope you don't mind my saying that, it was just a thought that came to my mind as I read what you wrote.  I think you have really been insightful in the things you're saying.
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope, I had never thought of it as a strength before. It feels like a last resort but maybe it is a strength in a way.

I'm realising how far out I can get with this. Today I'm thankful for the weekend and rest. I'm grateful I can still function, mostly  :)

TW mental distress

I'm really tense and trembling. And cold.

This weekend I spent mostly in a scared state. It scares me because it reminds me of the past. I would either drink or act out or do something else to distract from the pain.

It starts to build and my mind fights itself then I get too tense and I start to tremble, like now.

I spent a lot of the weekend under the duvet on the couch but still not feeling safe. Is this an ef I wonder.

I have been picking up things on this forum about 'parts'. I wonder if it is a scared child part in control right now. The scary thing is I can still present as ok at work even though I feel terrified inside.

I'm tired of fighting and I want to understand but it seems like such a long losing battle, and lonely too. I am coming to believe I will never be 'better'. But there has to be a better state than this.

Old behaviours like outer critic, self blaming, self hating and ideas of harm will re assert if i can't manage this.

The breathing exercises help and I am clinging on to that.

There must be something or things hugely emotional underneath that are breaking me this way.

I have picked up that different 'parts' may have different desires, fears and goals. This is something I need to learn more about because it is too easy for me to think I'm insane this way. Like I was just laughing and joking with my colleague but I am right on the ledge. Is this just what being an adult is about? My fears around intimacy and abandonment create a really toxic and isolating mix of traits. I wish I could snap out of it.

Hi s&b
I'm sorry u have to go thru this, your not crazy (as my t keeps reassuring me).
That dissociation book helped (and is continuing to help me understand my seemingly irrational response to seemingly harmless situations, one time I ran out of a room in utter panic when someone started singing, I could see what I was doing, knew it was irrational but could not control the panic and terror I felt, it's just one eg of many that convinced me I was losing my marbles.
But this book described my experiences and is teaching me how to better overcome them, once I realised what was going on mentally for me, the responses weren't as scary, the not knowing, really is just as bad as the symptoms, it demoralises and makes you scared of your self. I was just so relieved to understand myself better.
Hope has a book by the same authors and has been summarising chapters in the book section, it's very similar, I'm not sure if you have read her posts or not.
Anyway I want to reassure u and send a big hug if that ok,  :hug:
Wb

Thanks Wb, that really helps  :)

What you wrote about triggers and flashbacks sounds just like me. People have thought I am crazy and / or scary and i get remorseful and shameful feelings afterward, even though I know it's not my fault. (Often I haven't even done anything. It's mystifying). Untangling the self blame and recrimination is so hard at first. I'm looking forward to getting more of a handle on these. I plan to work through the book but i need to be careful and go slow so as not to overwhelm myself.

I have started to read Hope's reviews, at least I have read one of them now. I was afraid to read about them because 'parts' work is so new and also kind of scary but I do seem to recognise what is going on there. It is very interesting.  :hug:

 :hug: to you SharpAndBlunt, if that's ok. 
Hope  :)

Yes, thank you Hope  :hug:

QuotePeople have thought I am crazy and / or scary and i get remorseful and shameful feelings afterward, even though I know it's not my fault. (Often I haven't even done anything. It's mystifying).

This is also my experience. Sometimes it's for my facial expressions when I think I'm just having a regular ol' face! I can definitely relate to what must be your confused reaction. Hugs ok?  :hug:

Ow yeah, I get that too  :whistling:

Thank you Three Roses and Wattlebird. I'm sorry you have to feel that way too sometimes even though it's a comfort for me to know it's not just me.

I've been kind of zoned out the last few days and haven't done anything with 'recovery'. I plan to make a post later about something that happened yesterday because I feel ok about how I dealt with it.

Tw: maybe, general description of confrontation

Something happened on Sunday that I want to post about. I'm keeping it in very general terms. I want to post because of the amount of triggers in it for me.

First of all, I made a mistake. Not a mistake that caused any damage. But it  may have (very mildly) disturbed some animals for a very short time. I didn't do anything but merely by being there.

I love animals and had made a decision based on what to do to minimise any discomfort to them (walking near them)

I took a path furthest from them and encountered a person who was immediately defensive, aggressive and intimating. I was a bit scared and wanted just to pass through. I coughed so that they were not startled then I gave a small wave and and a quick smile. I was challenged by the person in a non friendly and aggressive way and I said I just wanted to pass through.

Without giving me a chance to explain the person immediately started berating my intelligence and character. The person had made a few incorrect assumptions at that point. One that I was deliberately ignoring signs (they made an incorrect assumption about the direction I came from) and two that I was out to do some harm to them or their property. I absolutely was not.

I took a wrong turn while trying to do the right thing and I was very aggressively threatened without being given the space to express my side. I accept I was in the wrong place.

Being more assertive might have helped but I'm not sure, this person was clearly having a very bad day and I was a way for them to let off steam.

I felt very belittled and a bit scared and I did resort to a bit of cheek to a rhetorical question. I hate bullies and will stand up to them even if it puts me in danger.

But I was very shaken and I couldn't sleep that night. The scary thing was being reminded of how often this feeling happened to me as a child. I often was severely berated and didn't know why, often even when I was trying to do the right thing.

I was worried that I am addicted to that adrenaline of the fight. But I am not. I didn't seek it out and I hated it.

I hate that I have been conditioned to believe that I am worthless and stupid and wrong.

I hope there's nothing in here that's identifiable (that's my hypervigilance talking) but I don't think that there is. A small incident that blew up, it bothers me that things can get out of control so quickly.

I did read the person's social media afterward and there are lies by them to cover themselves (I could have involved the police over the threats). I wonder if they truly believe those? I could be angry about it but I'm not. I accept I had a part to play. The almost bragging and lies from the other party are almost sad, I don't think I can really get annoyed about it. They obviously feel very insecure about something in their life.

I feel a bit vulnerable posting this in case I am revealing something horrible about myself.

I never wanted to cause any trouble or damage but I was strongly attacked. This feeling of being a victim. It's horrible. My childhood felt like that. I don't want my adulthood to feel like that too. Until I process my way out of there it has opened a whole can of worms.

A different kind of worry than my usual but related too.
Maybe I am over blowing this. But I felt really powerless and threatened. So, I don't think it's nothing.

Hi Sharpandblunt.

I understand everything you say. I often seem to find myself in situations like these. A few months ago, my dog was attacked by another dog, but we were blamed. It was very traumatic and triggering. I am sure you are right to link it back to childhood, where we were always to blame. It must be why we find it so hard to get over things.

I know it is easier said than done, but I can't see that you did anything wrong at all. I don't know, but I suspect most people can get over these threat situations quickly. But I feel for you and understand.

I don't think you behaved wrongly in any way and I hope you can look after yourself. I avoid social media (except for here). It seems as if it is difficult to navigate without emotion.

Take care of yourself.

Libby.

Hi Libby,

Thanks. These kind of situations are so horrible. Probably they are worse for us because of the memories and feelings they trigger. I'm so sorry you and your dog were attacked. It must have been horrible for you both.

I also read your post this morning Libby and I'm so sorry you are having the difficulties you are right now, and to have to cope with a broken wrist on top of that. I would like you to know that you have my thoughts and best wishes and if you want it a big :hug: too.

SaB

That big virtual hug is truly appreciated. I am staying with my daughter, and she is helping me, when she isn't at work.  I have left my dog with my stbxH and sons. Didn't have a choice but am missing her so much.

It's so hard to stay positive but these positive interactions really do help.

Take care.

I've been wondering whether to take a break from the forum but I think its not the right thing.

I've been feeling quite 'far away' from my cptsd symptoms and much closer to my depression symptoms.

This isn't all bad. I tend to feel less anxious. But on the downside I feel physically exhausted and mentally drained and really disconnected.

I wish I could get to a place where I feel engaged and content with things and I also wish I could stop questioning myself why I can't 'just do that'.

I think I want to find some forgiveness in myself for past hurts. At least I am aware of that now. I've had so much negation of that desire from others and myself over the years it's hard to believe it's possible.

I also worry that I'm spending too much time on this healing. I'm so tired right now it is not leaving much space for more than just surviving.

Today I'm feeling disappointed again in the health service  :Idunno:

I managed to get two appointments and had two cancelled with the psychologist. 2 years it took. I received a letter today telling me the person is moving on so that is over. I'm being referred to another course. Sigh. 'Some people find it is enough'.

The psychologist and psychiatrist agree
it is complex trauma.

I am kind of angry at the state of the NHS and the country in general. It seems to me this Brexit is taking all the energy and I'm sad about the state of the NHS. We all pay taxes all our lives to fund this.

Even when the professionals agree it seems there just aren't the resources to take cptsd seriously.

I feel quite abandoned and invalidated again, like I have felt all my life. 'Stiff upper lip' or 'Keep calm and carry on'. Attitudes that might serve well in life but not with cptsd.

I want to scream and shout, not keep calm and carry on. I want to throw chairs through windows (in case anyone is reading this I have never done this!)..

I will go at their pace and continue educating myself. I believe that for me, reading in books is no substitute for face to face contact with a professional who knows the territory.

I think it is time for me to think of going private. Being previously kind of socially opposed to private health care (a very personal viewpoint and not meant to be a statement of any kind) I was kind of resistant, but sadly I now recognise the NHS is not fit for purpose in this respect and it might be time to acknowledge that and move on.

If I lived in another county I would just get health insurance, book the therapist, and get started.

SaB

Hi SaB,
Sorry that you've had those disappointing responses from the health service - and I can understand that you feel some sense of abandonment and invalidation about that - I think I would as well in that situation.  Just wanted to send you a hug of support  :hug: 
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope  :)

It is another step, I guess, on the road. Every step has to be a learning experience. Thanks for the hug.  :hug:

4am and I woke up, from what had been it felt like a good and comfortable sleep. This is quite common these days.

Felt like, my brain pounding on my door as I slept. "Wake up, wake up, time to get up. There's important stuff for you to be dealing with out here."!

Trouble is, as soon as I awake, all awareness of that 'stuff' just recedes away, quickly and quietly.

It leaves me feeling like this. Kind of uncertain and alone and unsure of what it is I'm meant to do. Helpless you might call it I suppose. I don't know. I'm used to it. I also feel wired, like maybe the adrenalin is or was up.

I sometimes wonder if hypnosis is a way to access these inner states my concious mind is scared of. Because I can't access them when I'm awake and I can't do anything with it when I'm asleep. So there's kind of like a sleep/waking battle in my mind. But like 2 sides of a coin they can never meet.

I don't know. When I think this way sometimes it's just nonsense. Middle of the night stuff. But it's so constant. It means something. There's something I need to learn.

SaB

Went for a walk in nature with a friend today. That was really nice. But felt a bit guilty because I didn't feel as 'present' as I would like to have been, like I wasn't paying enough attention.

But I don't think this is really a problem. More a symptom of how I have been feeling.

All weekend I have been feeling exhausted but unable to relax. It feels kind I am avoiding something. I can't for the life of me fix this right now. I might try to find a guided meditation online.

I came to lie down for a nap after the walk but instantly my mind is churning and the adrenaline is up. I'm really tired of getting like this.

I did a couple of guided meditations and they really helped. I had convinced myself that I wasn't feeling good enough to even do a guided mediation.  But, if I can't even lie in comfort and listen to something for half an hour, what hope do I have?

This is how hard I am on myself.

I recognise the symptoms I struggle with e. g. perfectionism, black and white thinking, disocciation, low self esteem and more. But though I recognise that these are things I suffer with I find it almost impossible to apply that knowledge. Almost like, "Yeah, I recognise those are issues but they can't possibly apply to me".

I think I have just described denial.

So this journal is useful because the act of putting things here allows an opportunity for reflection. I'm just learning to make time for myself to do these things. Again, denial made it all too easy in the past to kind of think "Yeah, yeah, I know all that." That's dangerous thinking for me because it will lead me down some dark roads.

Also thinking a little bit about "recovery". Specifically about how bad I have felt for so long. I tend to think about recovery as a process toward feeling better. It is, it must be, in a healthy way. But, it must be about more than feeling better too. Because I realise that feeling better can be at the expense of others' feelings. Not in an obviously abusive way, (I hope), but more, for me, I feel, about slipping back in to comfortable old roles and habits.

I can't really go in to details but those roles, although they maybe feel "comfortable" to me, I know instinctively they are not serving me, or others around me, more they are serving to perpetuate disfunction in my life.

This is what I think is meant by recovery. Not just to feel better, but to be healthy! (I'm smiling right now because I am thinking of a member here who's name is Be Healthy!)

I realise this is tough and will be probably life long in terms of needing work. And I will need people around me who also realise that this stuff needs constant work. And even then it won't be easy!

So... Yeah, recovery. It's long term and it's difficult but it is worth it. Maybe the only thing that is worth it.

Last thing I think I will write about is that I have been thinking that I don't like the username I chose much. I would prefer it was something a bit less blunt! A lot of members have positive names. But, I think it does reflect what I can be like, sometimes. Maybe it's a good reminder for me. I don't think I'll change it yet, in any case. In fact, I'm not sure if it can even be changed. I guess it's not the most important thing right now. But it had been on my mind.

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on February 20, 2019, 06:02:47 AM

I'm just learning to make time for myself to do these things.

So... Yeah, recovery. It's long term and it's difficult but it is worth it. Maybe the only thing that is worth it.

Hi SaB - for some reason I was thinking 'SensitiveandBrave' when I thought of you - rather than SharpandBlunt, but this is only because you were thinking about your name, and somehow when I wrote the letters SaB I thought of some words to represent those letters relating to my idea of you - which I realise may be not necessarily apt, but it is what came to my mind.  My apologies, as I feel I probably shouldn't have done that - but I'm sharing what was in my mind.  What I wanted to say is that I admired the fact you were able to do those Guided Meditations despite how you were feeling, and that you did that for yourself. 

Wishing you the best, and I agree that Recovery is difficult but it is worth it - I believe that too.   :hug:

Hope  :)

 :) Hi, Hope! Thanks, for sharing, and for your kind words.
:hug:

I like your name
Denial and recovery don't always mix well, but you seem to be well aware of your issues with them both so I believe you will get there, just little by little and progress slowly accumulates before you know it.  :hug:

Thank you Wattlebird, that means a lot  :)  :hug:

I haven't been on the board for ages. I'm not sure why and I don't feel strong enough to look at that right now...  ???

This morning I'm feeling very vulnerable. I think part of giving up control is allowing others to be who they are and allowing myself to see them honestly.

Without going in to too much detail I realise I am not in a happy place with my bosses at work.

But, I don't know how much of this is my issue, do do with authority figures, feeling like a victim and their issues, denial, neglect, selfishness.

Why should I be happy just because someone else has worked their life to suit themselves? With me in the engine room working hard for it. I'm also working to pay my own bills, of course, but it feels like overall I am funding others' lifestyle.

Maybe I'm just having a bad morning. I did wake feeling very sad and tired this morning. But yeah, recovery seems hard when the truth is often not that nice. People acting like they're nice when they're anything but... Grrr  Constant talk and gossip :blahblahblah:

My own history leads me to believe it is probably me who is at fault. So I will stay quiet and blame myself for feeling like this, even though it is other people quite clearly acting totally selfishly...I'm sad about this, but a little bit of me is heartened that I can at least attempt to see the situation a little differently, progress and recovery must be working a bit.

Yesterday was a bad day for reasons I don't understand but I felt I fell again in to the role of a victim.

Today is going to be better. Although I am aware that there are people in my life I can't avoid who have behaviours I don't care for I have learned not to dwell in this.

The only course I have open to me is to maintain awareness of my own behaviour, keep my integrity, try and stay positive and look ahead. I understand I have a role in every relationship.

But, I still will refuse (for the time being at least) to engage with those who I feel don't know or don't respect boundaries or don't understand they're important.

I can't feel triggered by such people but I still do, greatly. I will try to learn to manage that better. I can handle it when I'm feeling OK but when I'm already feeling down that's when the old patterns and negativity start to kick in.

At least I am aware of it. Hopefully I can use that awareness to make better choices everyday.

 :thumbup: I found this inspiring, thanks for posting.

Hi sharpandblunt
Sounds like you've been on a bit of a roller coaster lately sorry you're going through these realisations, just a little advice if you don't mind me butting in,
Be careful not to let others take advantage of you, not everything is going to be your fault. I made this mistake after a similar situation and ended up thinking everything was my fault. So thought I'd just pass that on.
Best wishes
:hug:

Thanks guys. I'm still here. I'm trying to work out what's up at the moment.

I think maybe I'm stuffing a lot and going back to my old attitude of 'nothing can be done'.

The difference is this time it's kind of making me more aware that something is going on that I have to address.

So I'm hopeful about that.

Thanks for the support. I want check in again when I have more to say.  :hug:

I'm still feeling a bit stuck so I have nothing much to say.

I drank alcohol last night though for the first time in ages.

I feel guilt and shame about it and I'm trying not to give myself a hard home.

I am wondering right now if I feel deep feelings of shame and self loathing because of alcohol or if it is only tiredness and the hangover lifting the veil on those feelings which I think are deep rooted and with me all the time.

I believe they are always with me. I put a lot of energy in to 'making myself feel better' by achieving things, be it at work, in my flat, or just by feeling virtuous about 'not drinking'.

I feel maybe on a border and it's about giving up control. But I don't understand it so it's scary and I will probably disassociate again and 'deal with it' that way. I'll get over this hangover and I will try to keep chipping away at the literature.

I'll try to be kind to myself while I'm trying to get out of this deep depression.

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on March 17, 2019, 08:30:55 AM


I'll try to be kind to myself while I'm trying to get out of this deep depression.

Just wanted to wish you the best with this, SharpAndBlunt - and also send you a hug of support - if that's ok.   :hug:  I also try to hang onto a sense of being in control - and I am very fearful of ever being out of that - so I feel as if I empathise with what you're saying here.  Wishing you the best for today and going forwards.
Hope  :)

Thanks Hope, its such a mish mash of feelings, isn't it? Sending a hug back to you  :hug:

I had a difficult weekend. Instead of reaching out I chose to isolate. Thinking that it would be 'easier' on me to do that.

It wasn't easy at all. I felt lonely and miserable and even drank on Saturday because of it.

I had considered more than once reaching out because I knew in advance it would be a difficult weekend.

But, I didn't. There is no point worrying too much about it now but I want to mark and remember that I did know in advance, and I could have dealt with it better. One for the future :)

Back at work now and work concerns will naturally take over and I will kind of forget how bad this weekend was. In terms of sadness and emotions and feeling hopeless.

Kind of just want to put that here. I will definitely have achieved at least three good things for the company before the end of the day, that is something. Wanting to consider my future too but never known how to do that and the prospect is overwhelming.

 :hug:

Hi SaB,
I hope that the weekend will have some positive moments within it - and I wanted to send you a gentle hug  :hug: if that's ok.  I know that last weekend was difficult for you - and well done for achieving some good things for your company at work - that is definitely something.   :cheer:
Hope  :)

Thanks, Three Roses, and Hope  :)

Last weekend was kind of tough. I think maybe I isolated even more than is usual because I knew it would be. So, I've decided to go easy on myself for that.

This weekend I've decided to meet up with a friend for a walk in another town which is a lovely diversion from my thoughts. I'm typing this from the (very wobbly) bus!

I've begin to realise that when I'm feeling overwhelmed it can take me weeks or longer to work out what is causing it.

Often the things that I think are causing me stress are not the real issues.

To me this is not that surprising since I've found out a little bit about how trauma works and the effects it has.

What does surprise me is how often I'm still taken unawares by stress and anxiety until always something has to give. Usually it is socialising and / or hobbies, which can be kind of dispiriting in itself. But, if I'm not feeling good enough to enjoy my hobbies then self care has to come first.

I do feel like I go 'into the fog' and real thinking is kind of impossible. My brain goes round and round and it feels like it is busying itself avoiding the root causes of my anxiety. My anxiety is pretty much ever present.

I'm learning to be with my feelings, but when it is numbness and anxiety it is hard to even identify what feelings I'm having.

I think I have said before that I can deal with sadness in itself. But the whole mishmash of disfunction around that, that's another kettle of fish.

I think this comes from not having the strength or support to honestly look at my feelings in the past. I learned / was taught to bury them. The anxiety maybe is just my fear that I have stuffed those negative emotions forever. Like they will be with me the rest of my life and dominate it as they have the past. But, I hope not. With work and some support I can get thorough.

I'm almost at my destination. I've spoken more now than I felt able to the last couple of weeks. I'll look at that as a good sign  :)

:grouphug: to all

 :hug: to you SaB - I hope you enjoy your walk with your friend.
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope  :hug:

I'm on my way home now and had a really good time, thanks  :)

Hi SaB,
The weekend is here again - I hope you are ok, and I'm glad you enjoyed that other weekend with your friend.   :hug:
Hope  :)

Hi Hope, thank you  :hug:

Last weekend was really a bit rough. I didn't feel good enough to log on and this week I guess I am experiencing the same problems as others with the site (haven't been able to read the announcements so far). I feel a little more even keeled this weekend. I'll try and post a journal entry below this that I saved earlier.

:)

Perfectionism, low self esteem, strong inner critic, denial seem to be a high barrier to recovery.

I am not giving up. But, there is a cycle with me of denial, leading to relationship problems, leading to more shame, inner critic becoming strong, leading to feelings of hopelessness and childishness, which add to the shame and guilt feelings. The way I cope is to choose denial, just to get breathing space. It is such relief. Then, of course, the denial leads again to problems.

Self compassion and time is the key. I am scared I will be old and always alone and never be robust enough to maintain a relationship. But my pride tells me it is better not to be in a relationship while I am damaged this way. This may just be another layer of denial. Each revelation seems to bring more shame on the self. The conclusion : everything is simply self pity. This could be true or it could be the inner critical parent. Recovery is about acceptance. It's hard to accept myself.

Hi SaB,
I'm glad to hear you're not giving up - and I wanted to send you some supportive words for this week ahead - if they help.   Maybe a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

A way to remember my commitment is what I titled my journal and that is what I'm trying to do today.

Overall, I think that I am doing OK. I am trying to give myself space to feel, in order to breathe and give respect to my feelings.

I'm trying to learn how to be respectful towards my FOO without forgetting my own boundaries. This is harder than it seems at first.

I feel today that everything that has passed cannot be changed. I can have that knowledge. The wrongs I feel are never going to be acknowledged, never mind agreed on. I probably have wronged others too.

I feel strongly that in mature relationships issues and feelings should be discussed. Why so many people disagree I don't know.

Having written this, now I realise I am thinking "It's because they are all wise, and you are wrong. It has always been that way".

Sigh. Even in my calm moments, my inner critic is harshing me.

At this point in time, I can kind of understand, how someone who is not going through cptsd, simply does not want to acknowledge its right to exist. I think it is offensive to some people. I think it is the idea that "Well, I am suffering, have done my whole life, why in the * should I listen to someone else's problems when no one has ever done a damn thing about mine."

But, I think, this attitude is a bit irresponsible. Maybe one day, when I am in a place where I don't want to be bothered, I will also think like this.

But I also know that my hurts are real and if I don't tend to them I can't expect anyone else to. In this sense I own them and they are mine to process. I wonder how I can do that and still maintain a relationship with those that deny that. In my mind I am already closer to making a break. Emotionally however it is harder, particularity when others do not see the need.

I would be called indulgent for entertaining these needs. But still the doubt is there. Maybe it is me who is so slow. Maybe I am so far behind on the path that my attempts to find my way are laughable. That is how I have always felt in my family. Mocked for being at the back. It has had a big effect.

Hi SaB,
Just popping by to wish you the best for this weekend. 
Hope  :)

Thank you hope  :)

I had a nice weekend. It is strange. I am tentative but I feel like maybe I am regaining some sense of self. I don't know if it makes sense. That is the thing I have felt I have lost for a long time.

The grieving and sadness for that will have to come. For now, I am content just trying to keep that sense of connection to my self.

Maybe that makes sense.  :grouphug:

Hi SaB,
It's good that you've felt some sense of self, and that you're content keeping that sense of connection to yourself.  Standing with you, if that's ok  :grouphug:
Hope  :)

Hi Hope, yes that is definitely okay  :)

Thank you  :hug:

My inability to deal with my trauma and grief has left me an adult child. Using any avoidant behaviour I could to avoid responsibility.

This is a deep deep source of shame to me. I was a very responsible person until late adolescence. I had big dreams and plans that came to nothing because I couldn't go through with them.

I'm trapped in what seems like nowhere with no plan, no prospects, and still, an insurmountable fear of just being and thinking! I will do any thing to avoid it. This has been my plea for so long. I can't cope. I'm not ashamed to admit it. But, the world doesn't pause. There is no place in society for a person like me. I must be wrong about this. This must be stinking thinking. I am so utterly sick of this battle between self pity and optimism. I know that everything in my life can be laid at my door. What a way to exist, to go through life alone. I feel that this is not a very self aware journal entry. More a desperate desire to express and hopefully let evaporate the strong grief that ties me to myself.

Sounds like an EF. There is a place on here for you SharpAndBlunt, even or especially in an EF.

I agree with Blueberry, that sounds like an EF. BTW EFs can last a very long time! In case you need it, here's a link to Pete Walker's site where he writes about EFs and how to combat them. Standing with you!  :hug:

http://pete-walker.com/flashbackManagement.htm

Guys, thank you  :grouphug:

Isn't it one thing, to learn and read about EFs and other symptoms, and another to find yourself, slap bang, right in the middle of one.

It is such a comfort to hear that an EF is what it was / is. I am always suprised how little insight I have in to my own emotions.

This was a really strong one. I now on reflection know it was probably triggered by the recent loss of my much loved pet. I am quite bad at putting two and two together. It took until this morning and your help. I read your posts, then, I slowly and deliberately thought, "What could have caused this?".

It seems almost impossible to think that I could not have connected these. But, get on and get by was always my way. Not good.

I want to put some effort in to 'joining the dots'. Man, if I can learn how to deal with these..

Just in general it has been hard to deal with these EFs not knowing what they are. They can last a long time. Sometimes mine last weeks.

But even since I have been learning about them I never connected them emotionally to myself. I have tried explaining them many many times over the years, with no success. Usually the attempts ended in basically humiliation. Thanks to all you guys for being here.  :grouphug:

Three Roses I will definitely be reading that section over the weekend. I have the book and I want to start again with it. I will start at that section.

I want to go on but I will just say thanks again atm.  :thumbup: :)

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on April 26, 2019, 09:10:16 AM
Isn't it one thing, to learn and read about EFs and other symptoms, and another to find yourself, slap bang, right in the middle of one.

:yeahthat: It is like holding on to a twig to stay on the ground in the middle of a huge tornado.  :fallingbricks:

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on April 26, 2019, 09:10:16 AM
It seems almost impossible to think that I could not have connected these.

You DID make the connection. Please give yourself credit for that.  :applause:

Thanks notalone, I did. I needed help, then I made it. That's such a nice realisation.  :thumbup:

Quote from: notalone on April 26, 2019, 02:29:01 PM

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on April 26, 2019, 09:10:16 AM
It seems almost impossible to think that I could not have connected these.

You DID make the connection. Please give yourself credit for that.  :applause:

:yeahthat:

fwiw, I still sometimes don't notice for a good few days that I'm in an EF. It's part of the nature of the thing. ime the more I notice, the better and faster I get at noticing the next times, but sometimes I slip up again.

:'(  :hug: on the loss of your pet. Was usually devastatingly triggering for me too.

Yes, Blueberry. My habit of coping with disassociation, makes it difficult for me to see these things coming and to recognise them. I'm going to work on both those gaps in my perception.

Thanks for the hugs. Grief is really difficult. My little furry friend was such a companion to me over the years. I didn't live in the same house as him for the last couple of years. But I was able to spend time with him before he went. I'm glad of that.  :'(

Hi SharpandBlunt,
My condolences to you regarding your furry friend.   :hug:
Hope  :)

Thanks Hope  :)

 :hug: ...for your turn into grieving your furry friend.

I've had so many who left their mark with me; still have one furry roommate (actually lying on my arm as I type this into the 'puter).

Thank you woodsgnome. The critical parent in me, even now, is telling me "Don't be stupid, it was only a cat". I am learning to disregard that critical voice and listen to my own instead.

The cat was intuitive and emotional. We had so much give and take. He was a rescue and had so much love to give. He used to do that thing too. He would lie on my arms when I was working from home and trying to type! We eventually worked out a little system. (Fresh cup of tea and my notes nearby meant we could eventually sit like that easily for an hour or two).  :)

Thank you. I'm so glad for you that you have your roommate. One day I will have another, just not quite yet  :hug:

Hi SaB,
Your cat sounds so lovely - I relate to what you've said - as I also had a very warm and loving relationship with a cat once in my life - he meant such a lot to me, and I don't think I've grieved the loss of him - but when I've read the words you shared about your relationship with your cat, it helped me to process some of my own emotions about my cat.  I hope you don't mind my sharing that, but I really feel I relate to what you're saying.  It was many years ago that I had him in my life, and I've not felt able to get another animal.  I know you said you may have another some time, when you are ready.  Sending you a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

Hi Hope,

It really means a lot to me, the time I had with my cat, and it sounds like your time you spent with yours does too.

There were times when the cat was so emotionally intuitive, he could seem to tell when I needed him.

If it makes you feel better, I can say it helped me greatly to grieve for him. I know too that my former partner misses him terribly and is grieving him too.

It's amazing the comfort and love these little guys can bring! I think they each have a unique personality.

Thanks for sharing your experience with your cat  :hug:

SaB  :)

 :hug: to you SaB
Hope  :)

Thanks Hope, always appreciated.

TW below, feelings of hopelessness

I'm in the middle of a slump. I'm feeling really raw and low and I don't want to do anything or be in the world. I don't know how it can be so easy for people to go through life and enjoy it. I know it's not easy. I just wish I wasn't alone.

Is it better to feel this way, or to disassociate and distract? Those seem to be my options. My heart says it is better to feel. But it hurts, and I'm not well, I can't be if I feel like this.

Distracting is the only thing that keeps me going. All these things I've learned about abuse and control. I still think it's my problem, I'm ashamed to feel bad.

I'm so glad it's acceptable to feel bad in this forum. In life it seems to be a taboo. I feel weird and little. Trying to let the feelings out by crying but I can only do a little before I clam up.

Hoping to feel better soon.

Feeling little is a sign I'm in an EF. Don't know if that's true for you.

I'm glad this is a place that can accept and support us when we're low. It is rare. Here's a :hug: if you want one.

Thank you Three Roses,

Yes please, a  :hug: is good.

I think I am in an Ef. Feeling little and weird, like I did when I was a child.

So appreciative of this place.

 :hug: from me too.  :thumbup: for reaching out. EFs do pass. Hard to remember when in the middle of one, I know. Though of course you're welcome on here any time, EF or no EF.

SharpAndBlunt,
Hearing how down and discouraged you are. Difficult feelings. Hope you feel warmth and caring in this hug.  :hug:

Thanks Blueberry and notalone   :thumbup: :hug:

Blueberry, I now accept that I am welcome here (thanks) and it took a little / long time for me to truly accept that. Realising that it is finally safe to express my true feelings is not coming easy. But I'm working on that.

notalone yes I am feeling your hug, and I am sending one back to you  :hug:. Thank you.


This morning my big ef from yesterday is subsiding a little bit. This is good news. However, I am aware that adrenaline is waiting to rush in, to provide a fight / flight response, if I will let it. This is the cycle I'm trying to break.

The fight / flight adrenaline will protect me from feeling hurt but that is not what I want. That old response was never really what I wanted, but it used to be all I had.

But now I want to stay with my feelings and work with them. There are some changes to make in my life but blindly moving on to the next 'thing' won't help.

I'm hoping I can maintain the kind of self awareness that this life requires. The are a million and one ways to lose my way. It really hurts to be alone. That is my truth. I also know it's not healthy to have attachment issues. There's the difficult part I'm trying not to get in a new mess over. I guess a lot of people struggle with this. I'll leave it there for now. Thanks so much for support  :grouphug:

Saw a psychiatrist today who offered me a course of anti depressants because says I am showing major signs of a depressive episode. Or was it signs of a major depressive episode. Lol. I can't remember.

I declined because I've been on anti depressants before and all they did was have a mild disassociative effect with no noticeable improvement in mood.

I said I'd think about it though because I don't want to dismiss it out of hand. I'm so tired now though as had to come to work and now I just want to go home. I know that I have to dig up the emotions and memories but was also warned about doing this by myself by the psych. who thinks it might be inadvisable or possibly impossible. The psych might be right but at this point I don't feel I have any other option so on I will go with it. There was some understanding there and it was not an unpleasant meeting but I am tired and giving up on the pace of the NHS and more or less said that.

On top of it all I still doubt that there is anything wrong with me at all, that I just need to 'get over it'. Ho hum, business as usual! Maybe people are right and spending so much time analysing my feelings and dysfunctions are not serving me. Maybe they are wrong. Something is not working, that's about all I know for sure.

Imo, the only thing not working for us is the health care system. But awareness seems to be growing, and hopefully this will mean better treatment options for us. CPTSD is an injury, not an illness. It's not in how we think (although our thinking can influence it), it's in our physical brains.

I'm going in for a meds eval soon, and am looking forward to discussing new medications with my pcp. There are many newer, more efficacious meds on the market these days. Good luck to you, and I will take some of that luck, too!  :bigwink:

It does feel like I had to persuade this psych again about cptsd. Before he had agreed with a previous assessment diagnosed by a psychologist. But he seemed to have forgotten, or hoped I might forget about it. I don't know. He seems to be slightly steering me away from it. Maybe because he knows they can't treat it (yet). It's really all guesswork on my part. The system moves slowly and I get the impression they don't agree amongst themselves a lot of the time.

I was offered Sertraline. I should search the forum to see if there's any opinions on it here (taking into account alternate names possibly in the u. s.) and maybe have a think about it.

Thanks for the luck Three Roses and wishing you a good portion back to you. I would be interested to hear if anything effective comes up for you  :thumbup:

SaB

Thinking about my last post I thought it might sound a bit negative. I'm trying to take it all in and my brain tends to be quite active after an appointment like that. I am grateful, very grateful, to the NHS and the services they offer. I'm also grateful too for the space available here to vent or join in when I can. Looking forward overall.

 :thumbup: :thumbup:

Hi SaB,
I just wanted to pop by and offer you a gentle hug  :hug: 
Hope  :)

Hi Hope, thank you, I really appreciate that  :)

I'm starting to think that shame and self blame are at the heart of a lot of my difficulties.

I'm learning that thoughts experienced are not always true and especially not when in the midst of an EF.

I'm learning that if something does not go right it is not always my fault. If friends mess up then it is not always me who had caused it to happen.

That kind of belief can appear completely egotistical but I now think I understand that it's a survival strategy from childhood.

It is a relief to be not under that misconception. But, times of stress (it does not take much to stress me out) still will bring it back, as a conviction.

I hope my self care and learning will help me to protect myself from those type of mental self attacks in future. There are parts of me that are very, very, angry and I don't usually have access to them. Parts work is very interesting and something I want to investigate further. I feel I may have written this before, sometime, and nothing come of it. That is fine. When the time is right it will feel easier.

For now I'm in a small sense of safety and balance but overwhelm is not too far away, but with continued self care I hope I can continue to be a little bit more present and not dissociate as much.

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on May 29, 2019, 11:28:25 AM
with continued self care I hope I can continue to be a little bit more present and not dissociate as much.

Hi SaB,

I felt as if I could have written the words you wrote in your Journal today myself, because I relate so much to what you said - from the beginning to the end - I really related.   :hug: to you, if that's ok.  I would also like to wish you the best with being a little bit more present and not dissociating as much. 
Hope  :)

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on May 29, 2019, 11:28:25 AM
For now I'm in a small sense of safety and balance but overwhelm is not too far away, but with continued self care I hope I can continue to be a little bit more present and not dissociate as much.

I can relate to a great deal of what you wrote. I am just out of a 9 day "crazy time" (Walker would say EF). I also feel that small sense of safety, but know overwhelm is not far away. Supporting you, as I also focus on "grounding."

To Hope and notalone, thank you for your supportive comments. Thanks to anyone who has commented or even just read this.

Hope, it meant a lot that you said you can relate so closely to my last post. Thank you.

notalone I hope you are feeling a little more settled after your 9 days "crazy time". I know how that feels. Grounding is indeed wonderful when it happens.

I feel a little embarrassed because I am not finding time to read as many other posts as I'd like. If I'm honest it's not the time but I find it hard sometimes. But, I will keep reading others' posts when I can and continue to post here when I feel it is good for me.  :grouphug: to everyone who is here and sharing by posting reading. I hope that is OK.

SaB

don't worry SaB! It's about your recovery here. You read and post as much as is good for you. No need at all to feel embarrassed.

Quote from: Blueberry on June 02, 2019, 02:59:22 PM
don't worry SaB! It's about your recovery here. You read and post as much as is good for you. No need at all to feel embarrassed.

:yeahthat:

Hi SaB,
Hoping you don't put any pressure on yourself at all - because your well-being is important, and you've got nothing to feel embarrassed for.  Sending you a hug, if that's ok.   :hug: 
Hope  :)

Thanks to all for your support. I just realised now I had not replied. Thank you  :hug:

I had another appointment today which I think was really useful.

So, it is agreed by the professionals that I have depression, anxiety and cptsd. Now, I don't like depression or anxiety, but I think maybe I could cope with the skills I have already with one or the other or possibly both.

What throws the whole thing off is the cptsd. The flashbacks, panic, massive self criticism and shame, all overwhelming.

That on top of the depression and anxiety has been a lot to cope with. I'm sure I don't need to tell anybody here.

So, in some ways I am being kind to myself, congratulation myself that I have made it so long with this pretty toxic combo. :cheer:

While I'm keen to get on and 'get better' one of the things we talked about today was learning to give myself space and time to do this, to be safe and stable before tackling the bigger issues at the root cause of my cptsd.

This was quite a big revelation for me. I feel today that my situation as seen by the professionals was explained quite well to me. This is a first. And I am very grateful. It makes sense to take it slowly, even though I am keen to get on with healing I know that it won't happen overnight.

Trying to separate all my symptoms has been a nightmare. I hope that I am getting better at doing that.

Having this forum has been great for me to improve at recognising symptoms. Three cheers for that  :applause: I've only got a couple of hours left at work then I think I'll be tired for the rest of the weekend. I plan to take it easy and do a few light tasks around the house and read a bit and be outdoors when I can.

This morning I feel really alone. I want to put the feelings I'm having. So that I don't let them pass again and bury them.

Angry, critical, ashamed, lonely, abandoned, unlovable, dirty, weak.

Resulting behaviour : Isolating, self pity, lethargy, taken to bed, 'resting' (it doesn't feel restful at all).

Physical symptoms :  Tension in all body but particularly shoulders, knees, thighs, neck, jaw and fingers.

Probable outcome. This 'bout' will pass. I'll go for a walk. I will feel a bit more clarity mentally. But the emotions will still be there, unprocessed and stuck.

Future. I want to learn more about processing emotions. Having them stuck here just keeps them toxic. I can release them but only in a safe space and not on my own.

Interestingly to me, I have just realised the contradiction here. When I need to process emotions I isolate, but I can't do it alone. When I isolate i am just 'wallowing' in them (self judgement there).

But, I did try, again and again, to reach out to share / unburden, so the isolating is understandable, from a historic point of view. I was mocked or rejected for doing so. The conclusion, my emotions are silly and contemptible and don't matter at all. I now need to learn how to do this healthily. I will have to learn to let go of all the shame and critical words I have heard about me for isolating in the past.

I isolated to be safe. People around me took it personally against them, I think. But I was just unable to do any more than nothing. It is a big hurdle to my recovery, all the hurtful names I have been called for doing the only thing I could do. I tried to explain but nobody wants to know.

My self pity. It is my companion and I hate it. I get jealous of happy people and paranoid they're laughing at me. Being this messed up is not fun. I try my best to be positive for people. But if I'm honest it is not my true self. And that battle, those two people competing, it makes me feel fractured. And that means I feel scared, alone and helpless. An Ef, by the sounds of it.

Probably anger underneath. That's it for now.

Will I am through that bout of what felt like self pity. I dressed and showred and did the shopping. Little thing. I still think I need to learn from scratch about processing emotions, particularly stuck ones. I would prefer not to have to but I will do it.

I have a hard time distinguishing between feeling sorry for myself, and grief. Grief is a natural response to being abused by the people who are supposed to be the ones you can trust. It's understandable and normal to feel great sadness after being hurt and betrayed - but when, on top of the abuse, we are then told to "suck it up" or "don't think about it", the label for that feeling turns from "I am grieving" to "I'm just having a pity party".

:hug: to you. Thanks for being here.

After feeling angry, critical, ashamed, lonely, abandoned, unlovable, dirty and weak-----really big, difficult feelings----showering, getting dressed and shopping is not a little thing, but a big accomplishment. I did not hear self pity in your words; I heard a lot of pain.

Three Roses and notalone, thank you. It's good to be here.  :thumbup:

Thank you for pointing out that there's a difference between pain/grief and self pity - it is an important distinction.

Those kind of subtle shifts in thinking are illuminating and while should probably seem obvious, too often they are just not easy to see.  :Idunno:

I'm taking the positives on board. :hug:

SaB

Sending you a gentle and supportive hug, SaB  :hug:
Hope  :)

It has been two weeks since I posted here. I don't know where the time is going. I'm in a very strange place, head wise. I don't know if I'm getting better, or regressing, or I don't know what.

I'm scared of things as before and my fears seem to be all up in my face meaning I don't feel I have space to breathe and I'm panicking. I'm getting annoyed easily at other things and people, too easily.

At the same time there have been brief intervals (maybe for 5 minutes) when I felt my perception shift to a place where things were not that bad, almost good. In those times, I can see the dysfunction in my thinking, and I can see why I am having difficulties and it must look so easy to others to do that 'snap'.

The trouble is I can't choose when I get to be lucid like that. Pretty soon I go back to being foggy, confused and scared, and go back in to hiding.

I feel like my time is slipping away and I'll never get to a life I want, I just won't be able to do it, mentally, and this is how I've to live my life, kind of a shadow person.

SharpandBlunt:  "I feel like my time is slipping away and I'll never get to a life I want, I just won't be able to do it, mentally, and this is how I've to live my life, kind of a shadow person."

Sadly, this reflects exactly my feelings; and yes, that includes brief moments when it seems like I've turned the corner, only to find myself lost yet again. Then, panic; then, resignation.

I wish I had the magic formula for undoing this. It's a big part of how deep the original injuries go, to the point of no recovery. It's all a gamble, I guess. Except in this realm, no winners or losers, just the reward of knowing we gave it all we had. And that's more than many would have ever suspected we could achieve.

Personally, I've gotten hung up on the phrase "I survived" lately. Really, it indicates that all odds of this all going haywire aren't true and is not pointing to failure, only to a mystery.

I like the idea of a mystery, not a failure. It appeals to a part of me that appreciates different ways of looking at things, a bit meditative maybe. And, that shift in mindset is important, to be able to take a look from another perspective is so important, and so so difficult sometimes.

Maybe, surviving and giving it all we have is all any of us can do. It doesn't seem so bad as a legacy, do you think?

Feeling twisted and negative is maybe not such an unpredictable response, and while I understand that part of recovery is giving ourselves space to feel that and not judge ourselves for that, sometimes the negativity, it just.. wins. Sadly all part of the battle.

SharpandBlunt: "Maybe, surviving and giving it all we have is all any of us can do. It doesn't seem so bad as a legacy, do you think?"

Right, wrong, bad, or indifferent can become relative terms depending on outcomes. But if we know we've tried as hard as we can (watch out, though; 'hard' can lead to overwhelming fatigue, too). As best we can, without regard to certain presumed outcomes, might be a better way to say it. This approach may not give any certain answers but lead to further questions; and surprisingly, maybe in the uncertainty lies the answer.

Sorry if I'm veering a little too much towards philosophy here (I know I'm tired from the effects of a major EF event that I didn't expect would happen, and/or that it would hit as hard as it did. Back to basics -- another way to say all this might be to stay open to the mystery by being willing to be surprised; to be open to unexpected, maybe even better, outcomes than we thought possible (I'm slowly beginning to see a better outcome filtering in around the intense pain I experienced and still weighing on me.

Without elaborating, I sense that's been the case with me. Crawling along, almost to the point of thinking 'why try any more', has led to some almost startling observations that has ended up helping my recovery to remain intact and somewhat focused (and hugely disappointing sometimes).

Okay, I hope that wasn't too obscure. In the end, all I'm suggesting is that remaining open to surprises might actually reveal the path one is looking for. It's like it was there all along, and we were looking so hard we missed the cue. Borrowing the refrain of a recent song, "Who woulda thunk it?"

Thanks, I feel it.

After the rain comes the sun. It's kind of a cliche but there might be something there.

And I get the part about not labeling, not judging. It has taken a long time to begin to see how useful, how freeing that is. It's all about a sense of internal space, having the space to forgive myself, be kind to myself. That tension, the trauma response that closes down that space, that's exhausting.

But, being a survivor, there is always hope. If there is one trait I can identify as positive from this is the open mindedness, the willingness, but it takes strength (and tim)  to be open to delight and joy and surprise. Small steps   :)

I have one caution to being open-minded. For me, what this mostly means is being open to the possibility that even in darkness I might find light, and it might even surprise me how it comes about. However, that's not a blanket or total acceptance of any of the circumstances or people who created and/or sustains it.

If this in turn surprises them, the message is simply that the old me who was walked all over and considered almost as a partner during the decades of abuse -- well, I aim to find better ways to discern when I'm being violated, sometimes in sinister ways that still hurt.

Trust is great, but I've been stung too often not to want to change that while retaining my strength (empathy) in that regard. Trust and discernment need to be in harmony.

Yes, patience is required too, patience not to rush in and recreate past mistakes. Patience being harder when the sense is that time is running out. That impression of time running out is a false one, I think. I think it has caused me problems in the past and it's something for me to be wary of. Thank you woodsgnome, for your thoughts. I loved this :

QuoteIf this in turn surprises them, the message is simply that the old me who was walked all over and considered almost as a partner during the decades of abuse -- well, I aim to find better ways to discern when I'm being violated, sometimes in sinister ways that still hurt.
 

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on July 01, 2019, 09:49:37 AM

And I get the part about not labeling, not judging. It has taken a long time to begin to see how useful, how freeing that is. It's all about a sense of internal space, having the space to forgive myself, be kind to myself. That tension, the trauma response that closes down that space, that's exhausting.

But, being a survivor, there is always hope. If there is one trait I can identify as positive from this is the open mindedness, the willingness, but it takes strength (and tim)  to be open to delight and joy and surprise. Small steps   :)

This is very validating - what you've said here - and I agree that it takes strength to be open to delight and joy and surprise.  Small steps, but they all count.   Sending you a supportive hug, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope  :) :hug:

I was going to post this in employment but it got too long. I'll leave it as it is though I don't seek answers it's more to record my thoughts.

My question for people, is there a type of work that doesn't suit a temperament, or is work only just to pay the the bills?

For years I've worked hard at a path I never really wanted to be on, thinking to work hard and make the best of it.

For years I've given myself a hard time because I believe I must be lazy, pretty stupid, or ungrateful, or a mixture of those. I get those feelings or ideas because I don't regard what I'm doing as a success.

I feel like only now I'm realising I never wanted to do this kind of work. I'm involved with computers.

I got into computers as a way to escape. I enjoy them as a hobby up to a point, but I'd much rather be working with people or animals.

My cptsd has made me question this too, as I have been questioning everything I do in a way I'm coming to realise that a lot of people just don't. I think undermining oneself is a bad habit.

Reaching my mid forties and don't want to be this ball of stress and self loathing any more.

Not sure how to break away into something else to prevent feelings of wasted time, inadequacy, etc.

I realise I have been judging myself a failure because I have never reached any heights in my work that I could have had I been more committed. I realise that I have had limited options though and these are the ones I took to survive. Maybe I have been as committed as I possibly could have been. I'm going to try to give myself a break on that.

I can't help feeling if I had any guidance I could have been happier, less stressed and less unpleasant to be around.

I guess I will try to find a way to make this happen.

SharpAndBlunt ... from my perspective, the words of your essay that leaped out at me were:

"I realise that I have had limited options though and these are the ones I took to survive. Maybe I have been as committed as I possibly could have been. I'm going to try to give myself a break on that."

Trying too hard to change what course you've already taken still won't change the old road. So you're at the most famous intersection of all -- here and there -- and you can only proceed from here (and where did all those new there roads come from? Although of course you can consult the rear-view mirror on occasion. On which there should be a warning: rear views are affected by cptsd.

Frantically, one looks for a map out of here. Gone, except for fragments of guide books. One is left with the failure-prone (at least in retrospect) instructions of the 'voice' called GPS or something. Whatever, it's akin to all those critical voices within and that takes wise discernment to fully trust, too. Oops -- it hasn't made the task easier, has it?

While the task may not be easy, it's critical to step back on the natural tendency to self-blame when all those dreams crumble yet again. Somehow you're still here, even with cptsd aftershocks, full of wonder laced with doubts.

Boiled down, I'm just saying I hope you always keep yourself free of the self-blame temptation. For me that was huge and it did make a difference in how my rather zany career (or non-career some might call it) took me, all the while stumbling all over the cptsd-dominated parts.

Quick addendum to what I wrote above about the course you're (we're) on. I was reading a reflection that included the following line, which I think pretty much encapsulates what I was trying to say. The writer Nancy Willard was sharing her observation of the difficulty of 'not knowing':

... "But that's all right. When you set out on a journey and night covers the road, you don't conclude that the road has vanished. And how else could we discover the stars?"

Hope that helps a wee bit, as far as gaining perspective anyway.  :hug:

Thanks woodsgnome  :)

Fighting with myself is the first battle I choose to manage, maybe the biggest one. I feel I'm alright then, woops, slip, feels like one step forward two steps back. Self blame is an easy one to fall into, and dangerous like a swamp. I have to be very careful with that.

I know recovery takes a long time. Trying to flip my perception to see the nice things, the positives, instead of feeling the pressure (of the past, the unchangeable? past). Of course the past is unchangeable, but maybe the conclusions drawn from there (the roads to here?) can be redrawn, or at least seen in a gentler light. Made to feel a bit kinder. I hope so. I think this kind of reframing is very important for releasing trapped feelings of guilt. Tired of fighting myself and ready for some peace.

Quote
When you set out on a journey and night covers the road, you don't conclude that the road has vanished

Thank you, woodsgnome. I really love this. :sunny:

:grouphug:

SaB

I agree it would be nice to be able to stop the internal war and be at peace for a while.  Good luck SaB! :grouphug:

Hi SaB,
I like what you wrote about re-drawing conclusions and seeing things in a gentler light, and I hope that you are doing ok with managing to do some of this.  For some reason when I read what you wrote, I imagined shining different lights with different colours on situations, and a very visual image came to mind, but I'm not sure you meant it like that. 
I feel a bit silly writing that, but I'll leave it there.  I wanted to wish you the best with it, and to send you a hug, if that's ok  :hug:  Reframing things and releasing trapped feelings of guilt - that is definitely something to strive for. 
Hope  :)

Thank you Tee for your good wishes and thank you Hope for that lovely image of different coloured light. Being as I am usually quite literal I find I like imaginative and artistic interpretations of things so I enjoyed this a lot. I imagine I can feel a lot of positive energy in all those different colours.
:grouphug:
---
Talking of feelings, I realise that I am making small progress, but it is making me feel very small as a result. I have been told that feeling small is common in an ef, but this doesn't feel like how I understand one of them, exactly.

It's more like that in becoming more aware of my body and allowing some feelings in, I am aware how much I am hurting, and how tense I am. I am as tense as tense can be, almost all of the time. I am a little worried that this high level of stress / cortisol whatever is going to result in damage physically, as well as all the mental tumult I've gone through in dealing with / maintaining this.

I've been doing a bit of thinking and linking back to being shamed excessively for expressing feelings or opinions. My feelings and opinion just didn't matter. I'm minded of a funny caption I heard about once "Everyone is entitled to my opinion". Not so funny when it is an opinion being imposed on us, though, chronically and without mercy.

Well, bringing a child up to be afraid of his own shadow does not make for a confident independent thinker later in life. The strange thing is, when I was younger I felt independent and sharp enough to make it in life, then, more big trauma came along which kicked my legs out from under me. Since then it's been this high stress, constant adrenaline feeling, impossible to reconnect with true self and feeling associated panic / fear then despair.

Well, I can't say I feel terribly good but, at least I feel something, I say. Maybe learning the feelings again will get easier. I am so determined not to shut them off again. Did I shut my emotions off, did I have a choice? I'd certainly rather it never had happened, so there might be an answer there.

Shame has a terrible way of making us think the worst of ourselves. What a corrosive emotion.

One last thought, I only learned the other week that shame is an emotion. If I did know this earlier I had forgot. How did I not know a) how to identify I was feeling shame (I got at this a few months ago but, normally I wasn't aware) and b) shame is an emotion that passes (it doesn't, not really, but I am working on that now).

I thought that shame was a state of being, a sign something is wrong with me, an unalterable fact of life. It just goes to show what can happen when someone thinks the worst of themselves, all the time. This is a tricky trap to climb out of, wish me luck in keeping to the task and not 'losing the plot' again, for another 20+ years.

SaB

Ps I feel that this is overall a positive time, though it may not feel like it or read like it. I just am struggling with feeling human. I guess a lot of people will be able to relate to that.

That's it for now.  :grouphug:

SharpandBlunt: "wish me luck in keeping to the task and not 'losing the plot' again, for another 20+ years."

Raising my hand  :thumbup: and offering the best encouragement for not 'losing the plot' again. Like a plot in any story, this can change, if we remember we're the author. While that can be challenging (we're not used to it), if we can at least begin shifting our focus away from our here-we-go-again mentality, there's better times ahead. Setbacks? Perhaps some, but that's when we learn to revise the script (and that we can -- it's allowed  :cheer: ).

One of the sure (but hard to come by) shifts is learning to discard the self-induced shame aspect. I for one haven't fully healed this tendency, but when I do get the sense that the shame has no role anymore, it's liberating to say the least.

Here's for your continued success in finding your way, even (or especially) after 20+ years of wandering about in a fog.

Thank you, woodsgnome  :)

Isn't it nice to know that shame can be lifted, taken off our list of things to feel bad about. And isn't it a nice view from there, when it opens up, even if only briefly?

I'm grateful there is understanding here  :grouphug:

Quote from: woodsgnome on July 15, 2019, 12:53:45 PM
Like a plot in any story, this can change, if we remember we're the author.

:yeahthat:


SaB - I agree with you that it's a nice view when shame is lifted, and I hope that we all get some more moments when that is the case.  I am also grateful for the understanding that is shown here - and I'm glad you and Woodsgnome are here.   :hug: :hug:


Hope  :)

Hi Hope,

Thank you, so much. One of the things I find hard is how fragile and fleeting they seem, peace of mind and stability. It is a joy to know that understanding people are here, and that I am able to offer my understanding too, when I can.
:hug:   :hug:

Managing expectations.

Being easy on myself doesn't come easily. Slowing myself down enough to give me a chance to recognise what is going on. Giving myself a break. In down time I want to be busy.

I love people but fear to be around them. Sometimes I wonder if there's anything at all at the core of me.

My fear is the one thing that keeps me here, the one thing I know is real. I feel, one day, I can grapple with this and win, or at least force a draw. That will be progress. Maybe on that day I can connect (again?) with the world on mutually acceptable terms.

Meanwhile, I remain grateful for this forum, another space in which I can talk safely, and for another friendship that is fragile but I want to work. I see pity in my friends eyes, sometimes. Maybe I imagine it. I fear it and want to withdraw from it. If it's real, it means she sees me, and that is scary.

I long to be invisible, to just play my part. But I also need to be real. I think, I hope that real is winning. But lately the line between them seems to be hard to discern.

 :hug: being real is hard.  Concern isn't pity though don't get the two confused.  Your friend may be concerned for you because she cares about you.  That's not pity. Don't push that Away.  We need people that care about is and are concerned. Even though it's scary To be real.  I've pushed so many people away.  A few on purpose a few by accident.  A few have stayed through my attempts to to push them away. They see me most of the time.  It's not pity when they see me low.  It's concern and bewilderment because they don't know how to help me and they want to help.  That's hard for me at times to accept help.  Hope some of that makes sense and helps you.   :hug:

QuoteI fear it and want to withdraw from it. If it's real, it means she sees me, and that is scary.

Yup, I totally get that! The fear of real intimacy. Because intimacy brings relationship, and those are sooooo very slippery for me. My track record for smooth, intimate relationships is not a good one. Hard to know what's expected of me and I'm not great at managing conflict.

Quote from: Tee on July 23, 2019, 08:40:18 PMIt's not pity when they see me low.  It's concern and bewilderment because they don't know how to help me and they want to help. That's hard for me at times to accept help.  Hope some of that makes sense and helps you.   :hug:

Tee, this rings true, it's to do with pride, and trust, and a whole mix of things that I find it difficult to accept concern. Thank you.  :hug:

Three Roses, slippery is a good word and I find it next to impossible to know what's expected of me, too. It seems to get harder as I get older, when I was younger I assumed the opposite would be true.  :hug:

One real true friendship would mean more to me right now than anything else in the world. I've missed it hard.

 :hug:

 :hug:  :grouphug:

Why does standing up for myself take so long, take so much effort and be completely draining. Assertive action that I'm sure people do on the turn of a dime and think nothing of take me months to conceive and plan, only finally spitting it out when I'm at the end of my rope. I feel emotionally drained for days or weeks afterwards.

The reason I think, is never being allowed my own opinion. I had ideas, of course, but learned to keep them to myself. I hoped they would be 'obvious' to like minded people and I would find my tribe and all would be somehow OK. This was a childish fantasy.

But, I'm encouraged. That I'm being assertive at all is quite a big step forward. It has taken being independent in the world myself to even attempt this. No one can read my mind. I can't expect people to do this.

I grew up with different dysfunctions and Codependent parents. I have inherited aspects of both. Lucky me!

Well. I have education and moral support where I can find it. I have awareness, which I am thankful for. I wish it didn't hurt, but it does.

 :hug:

When I was younger I was probably what most would call overly assertive, overly outspoken. As I grew older and started a family, I went to the opposite end of the spectrum. Now I'm working at balance. It gets easier with time. Don't give up.  :hug:

Thanks, I feel a little better for speaking what was on my mind. The saddest thing is that most of the negativity surrounding doing that exists mostly in my head. I am working on this.

Quote from: SharpAndBlunt on July 31, 2019, 10:14:37 AM
But, I'm encouraged. That I'm being assertive at all is quite a big step forward. It has taken being independent in the world myself to even attempt this. No one can read my mind. I can't expect people to do this.

Those are very big steps.  :cheer:

Thank you  :hug:

I found myself in a family situation today. I couldn't avoid it because my sister is visiting but anyway I thought it would be OK.

But at some point I was talking and I said something and my b/i/l made a stupid and to my mind kind of lurid and disgusting joke. This joke had a sexual element concerning another brother in law and 2 close female friends of mine. Everybody there starts laughing. I felt a) like again everyone was laughing at me for something I just hadn't seen coming, a stupid play on words that I failed to predict the impact if someone decided to make something of that particular combination of words that I hadn't thought of in advance. Once again left as the stupid one who never sees what he says. Failed once more for failing to censor my words in advance to stave off any potential attack. Shaming and kind of humiliating.

b) I then slightly lashed out at maybe the weakest person in the room, not the originator of the comment. I now feel ashamed of that. Double win.

All so someone can get a cheap laugh out of a tawdry comment about 3 people who I care about and value. (and who weren't there to defend themselves).

All 'innocent' enough but now I feel so angry that I have been put in that situation again. I felt really dirty about it. Now, I'm thinking I am the one with the problem. Everyone else laughs it up haha.

I left soon after and didn't want to be around that.

Maybe it's because I had a truly stressful day, (something unrelated but truly deep and sad, that they didn't know about).

But I think the effect is the same anyway. To make a joke like that. I wish I had called it out. But I just felt again my old role as the mascot, to be laughed at and down sized.

Ugh. Getting kind of mad about it.

Well, now I know how this type of humour can be so damaging. I've done a lot of work since I used to be exposed to this kind of uneasy humour so now I recognise it better and why I find it inappropriate. Maybe in future I can react better next time I am blindsided like that. I couldn't really expect any help from anyone there - awareness is close to zero on stuff like this. I'm not ready to be the leader on this, I've tried before and not framed it well enough and been disparaged for it. I tend to want to avoid instead. For the time being. Maybe I'll get better able to call this kind of rubbish when I see it.

Seems to me that the shame belongs to b/i/l. You are not responsible for where their minds went. Awful to feel laughed at down sized. I think leaving was a good way for you to take care of yourself.

Thank you, I'm kind of encouraged that I have seen this and not sat and accepted it. It feels kind of sad because to me it's needless and it's obviously the way the dynamic is in this branch of my family. Right now I'm at least in a place where I can leave that behind, but I'm still a bit sad about it overall  :Idunno:

Walking away like that is powerful. It sends a clear message I think. Good for you!  :applause: If everyone did as you did there would be better attitudes toward hurtful comments disguised as humor. It's natural that you're sad about this situation... hope your bil can catch a clue.  :hug:

Thanks, it would be nice if he did but knowing him a long time now I won't hold my breath   :blahblahblah:

:hug:

Today I'm back on anti depressants. First day. Sertraline 50mg. It has been - hmm I need to check - since I came off Mirtazapine cold turkey. Maybe 2 years. Not sure. Could be a year.

I'm worried about losing something by going back on ssris. But I'm not sure what. It's not like I'm really doing very well off of it. My feelings are hard to access and process and I feel cut off from life and myself. No joy.

So, the doc and nurse think the best chance of success for me to get well is to combine pills with therapy. I'm finally in line to see someone but it's taking ages.

I feel, rightly or wrongly, that agreeing to try Sertraline will allow me to move up in the queue. I have a horrible sneaking feeling I am jumping through hoops to get to the psychologist. But, if that's what I have to do, I will.

I had an interesting experience with a different prescription drug (not mine) that I might post about, if I can find an appropriate place to do so.

I'll be seeing the nurse again in 3 weeks to review how this thing is working initially.

 :hug: to you SaB, if that's ok.  Changing your meds will hopefully work out, but whatever happens, know we're supporting you  :grouphug:  Glad that you are finally in line to see someone, and I hope you get to see them soon.
Hope  :)

Thanks Hope. I still have big issues with trust. I swing between openness and paranoia. I'm hoping the medicine will steady that and help me stay on the right side. I'm hoping I trust enough to post here when I need to.

 :hug: I hope it will help and get you to the next step.

Thank you Tee, that's what it seems to be about right now. Little steps  :)
:grouphug:

Started a course of anti depressants on Friday, sertraline, I thought it would be easy but, blam, have been in bed the last four days. Felt really shaky and head was doing somersaults. I had to take two unplanned sick days from work yesterday and today because there's no way I could have worked in that state. I'll go back tomorrow.

The upside is that when I'm having negative thoughts I'm able to put them aside a bit, and my anxiety is reduced to a level where I'm able to relax a little bit.

I don't know why I was so sensitive to the chemistry changes. Maybe it's because I don't drink alcohol or caffiene, don't smoke or take any other drugs.

Was pretty intense though. It says on the advice a week to two to feel a difference but that's not the case with me.

It will be interesting to see how I fare back in the world. I went out for a short walk today, far shorter than normal because I'm tired. I felt more 'normal' but also really fragile, like I might break down at any moment. I remember feeling like this a lot, might explain why I'm prone to disassociation as defence.

I'll just have to take this one day at a time. I feel a bit more grounded which is great. My reaction to work stress will be telling. I am also trying not to feel embarrassment at how I was in the last few weeks. I think I mostly masked it well but I was really ropey and getting worse. Overall right now I'm glad I took the decision to take this medication.

 :hug: my T thinks I should go on something for a while. :blink: I'm afraid for a couple of reasons one I don't think it will actually do anything because nothiny really affects me at all. Alcohol doesn't even have an affect on me.  Or two what if it does and makes everything worse. :Idunno:

Hope things level out for you :hug:

Hi Tee,

The psychiatrist had been suggesting for months I try it. But as I only see him once every three months for an hour at a time it was easy for me to dismiss the idea. I too was afraid of what it might do, do nothing or make things worse.

What I hope it is doing for me is, to be able to isolate emotions and where they're coming from. Time will tell if that's something that's going to continue. That alone would make it worth it for me since normally I am just a big confusion, not knowing where emotions are coming from or why.

Big  :hug: to you, I know it's not an easy decision, and there is here, whatever you do.

I just want to post quickly about my experience with Sertraline (I think it's known as Zoloft in the US).

The first four days I was floored. I felt like I had a fever and I had headaches and shaky.

I'm back at work now. It has been a week. I'm feeling on quite shaky ground. But maybe this is an improvement over the certainty of denial / depression whatever we call it.

It's scary though. I don't know how people live feeling this level of emotion all the time. But, I am thinking they're probably not trying to process the same kind of stuff that I am (I'm talking just about people in general here, not on the forum).

I feel I had some insights last night when I was woken up unexpectedly. I am still shaky from them though I feel it is important for me to have them in mind.

But, it's quite a strange experience. I wasn't warned that emotions would come flooding back. Maybe that is just me. But it might be something for people to be aware of if they are thinking of this.

I'm not yet in therapy so I'm trying to hold on to the good side of feeling without freaking out too much about the bad feelings and insights and memories. It's like having a different perspective is nice but it's also challenging my ingrained way of coping.

I want to change the title of this journal too or maybe start another one but that is definitely for another day.

 :hug: emotions are overwhelming hold on to the good ones.  Hanging with you. :hug: