Out of the Storm

I'm hesitant about even posting this, but...

It occurred to me that many here might not have all that many experiences with being soothed as kids. I know my own mother was often too harried and impatient, and quite often, she'd ignore things or tell me to buck up.

However, now in recovery, I'm supposed to "soothe my inner child".

So I thought: there have to be quite a few parents here. Or people who had positive experiences with being soothed, or who've researched the thing. Would it be helpful if we just collected a few ways of soothing people? Or stories of how successful soothing experiences. Soothing strategies. Guidelines. Anecdotes.

I'll add mine in a separate post.

The self medicating thread in general discussions seems to have take a turn this way before I saw this thread. Maybe we should reorganize the self soothing as tools? Good topic.

Hey SDK and BF - we can certainly carry on talking about self-soothing here too, it's really important I think so the more we talk about it the better as far as I'm concerned.

I've attached the worksheet I found at the Adult Survivors of Childhood Abuse.  Butterfly if you want to add here what you wrote in the Self-medicating thread that would get us off to a good start. 

I think we could actually come up with a good worksheet/tool on Self-Soothing (e.g., adding in the different examples of soothing the senses you wrote about BF).

Feel free to chime in with ideas anyone, the more "heads together" the better!     

A GRIEF EXERCISE FOR YOUR INNER CHILD

Source: Pete Walker - available at http://www.pete-walker.com/index.htm under "Grieving and Complex PTSD"

Here is an exercise to help you enhance your ability to feel and grieve through pain. Visualize yourself as time-traveling back to a place in the past when you felt especially abandoned. See your adult self taking your abandoned child onto your lap and comforting her in various painful emotional states or situations. You can comfort her verbally: "I feel such sorrow that you were so abandoned and that you felt so alone so much of the time. I love you even more when you are stuck in this abandonment pain – especially because you had to endure it for so long with no one to comfort you. That shouldn't have happened to you. It shouldn't happen to any child. Let me comfort and hold you. You don't have to rush to get over it. It is not your fault. You didn't cause it and you're not to blame. You don't have to do anything. Let me just hold you. Take your time. I love you always and care about you no matter what.

I highly recommend practicing this even if it feels inauthentic, and even if it requires a great deal of fending off your critic. Keep practicing and eventually, you will have a genuine experience of feeling self-compassion for that traumatized child you were, and with that, you will know that your recovery work had reached a deep level.
 

This is from a parenting course:

In a difficult experience, a child needs a sense of connection, a sense of control, and a sense of meaning. So ways of soothing a child could be:

CONNECTION

Being physically present in the situation with her - sitting by her side, having her sit on one's lap, putting one's arms around her, cuddling, stroking her hair if she likes that, holding her and rocking her gently. Being physically present at all, not walking away. Letting your kid hear your voice (soothing noises) so you're not simply just sittting there in silence (some kids might find that too distanced).

Being emotionally present. Active listening. Assuring her that I'm there and that I won't leave her alone in this, we're in this together. (Even if she's the one fixing it, she'll be like the boxer heading for another bout, and I'll be in her corner with a towel and the water and all those things.) Showing one's concern in one's facial expression (NOT grimly determined to get this over and done with ASAP, but more along the lines of "oh dear, yes, I can see that you skinned your knee really badly this time"). Open, relaxed, welcoming posture, not closed-off or stiff, not fidgeting with impatience. When my kids were very little, I used to first hold them until the worst of their initial shock (at skinned knees and such) was over, and then I used to softly sing a certain song. Then I'd stop and hold them some more.
Another way of establishing connectedness might be through acts of service: making a cup of coacoa, offering her a "comfort cookie", fixing physical injuries, asking if she's cold, offering to read her a story. A lot of kids are comforted if something is done - if there's some kind of action that says "yes, I'm taking care of you". (A lot of adults are, too.)

CONTROL

The woman who held the course didn't offer examples here, so these are my own.
Active listening is a good tool to help others work through their own issues. Just letting them tell the story helps them gain a first little sense of control. I got this from PTSD texts. Several of them said that PTSD memories are traumatic precisely because they still stick in your gullet and aren't yet organized into a coherent narrative. So telling a story is already a form of control.
If my kids fell and skinned their knees, I'd first do the connection bit outlined above, then I'd ask: "Where does it hurt the most?" That's another way they automatically assume control: they switch from passive suffering to active scrutinizing. They'd often sit up straight, calm down, and become visibly focussed and controlled, so I'm assuming it worked. Some of my own milder flashbacks can be fended off that way, by investigating what it is really like: how would I describe this if this were a story I'm writing?
A third thing I did was point out what they'd done to protect themselves. So if a kid had stumbled, I'd maybe say: "It's good that you were able to catch some of your fall by really quickly taking hold of that bannister." They'd often pause, looking at the bannister, then again I could almost watch them regaining a sense of poise and control, and we'd spend the next five minutes talking shop about bannisters and how to hold on to them, and they'd tell me how they moved their hand real fast etc etc.
Or rituals. Little compensations. Anything that's an active step you can take together with the kid, a step that's about healing and recovery and ressource work. If the kid had a difficult time, you might do something especially nice. Again, it doesn't have to be much, it just has to be something the kid enjoys. Maybe ordering take-out dinner from a place she likes, or having dessert when you usually don't, or taking a step that will fix the problem. My dd had trouble at school a few years ago, and though it's fixed now, she still doesn't really like the place all that much: so when that came up again at the start of the summer holidays, we took all the notebooks that she definitely wouldn't need anymore and burnt them.

MEANING

I didn't like the examples given in our course. Which is why I can't remember them. Sorry. From what I heard and from my own experience, it's best to explore this whole area together with the kid. Kids will often initiate such conversations themselves. Sometimes all they need is for someone to actively listen while they work it out by themselves, using you as a sounding board for their own ideas. They're often appreciative if you share your own experiences ("I was bullied, too" etc) so they feel less alone.
That's one level of meaning one can explore: whatever happens to you - you're never alone with it. There's always others who share your problem, and who'll know exactly what you're going through. And there'll be yet others who'll suffer the same way, and whom you might be able to help.
Then there's religious meanings.
Maybe a part of "meaning" might also be when they ask you how to make sure this doesn't happen again.



(This sounds theoretical. I often try to dissect things into their component parts so I understand them better. Also, I'm from Central Europe. If we have a problem, we soothe ourselves with flowcharts and diagrams and difficult words. I'm only half kidding, believe you me. I only jiiiust stopped myself from using the phrase "paradigm shift".)

Oh wow, you were really fast or maybe I was really slow. I spent so much time editing my post that it's now too late to read the self-medicating thread and download the worksheets. So my apologies if I wrote something that's already been said before. I'll look into this tomorrow.

Wow good info here. Thanks so much.

Thank You for posting these lists. I am not sure I do anything to self soothe  :D :D I will put that in MY arsenal of things to add and think about! When I get upset I go on line and play games... I am sure that is not helping My healing though. I sit in front of the TV when things get bad for me... that is not healing either!

Thanks. That course helped me loads. I think I was a reasonably okay soother before it, but I often felt weirdly uncomfortable soothing my kids' day-to-day troubles. I used to be brushed off so often, I just had no clear idea what to do. It was all so unfamiliar.

And from what my mother did, I had a vague idea stuck in my head that "soothing" means "doing some quick and impatient action, and then the crying or complaining or weeping goes away". It was like "soothing" was goal-oriented: my kid presents a problem I have to fix, and I have to swoop in and do some quick, efficient fixing-it things before swooping back out again. So when my kids just settled in for a good cry, or if they came back again and again with the same story of what had happened to them, a part of me felt: "crap, I didn't to a good job the first time". And then of course I felt unsettled because I thought I didn't go about things the right way. I still comforted my kids for as long as they needed it, of course, but I felt like I was maybe doing it wrong. After all, they were still upset.

So this course helped me loads. It let me approach this like any other new skill I'm learning. And its main assumption was that we don't have to "fix" literally each and every problem the kid has, we mainly need to establish and maintain this sense of connectedness, and to give a level of care that empowers the child.

I tried to download the self-soothing worksheet but I can't because my cheap Wal Mart computer didn't come with Microsoft Word!  >:(

But I like the other info you all posted. I used to not be able to self-soothe AT ALL! I think that 's one reason why I mistakenly(?) thought I was borderline.

I play Mahjong Titans a lot (it's a video game on Windows 7). If I'm very upset or aggravated, I play it to zone out. I can even play it WHILE i CRY! Not sure that's really the best thing, but it's better than ruminating about suicide or stewing in anger forever.

Yes to Chocolate--I eat it in some form every single day! And the dark kind has antioxidants in it!!!!  :P

Thanks for the self-soothing info.

I think I have been doing this forever by being outside because I grew up in the country and would find solace there, in the woods, hiking or biking, and I still do. It can be a full-on sensory experience plus I enjoy the endorphins...my T is always trying to get me to connect with my body, but I'm never more connected to it than when I'm exercising. I wonder if that's why I do it?

I wish there were group sessions here...Colorado seems to have no groups unless you go through a therapist. I found one that was offering group sessions for $50 a week! Oish! I guess we're suppose to go out and hug a tree here...

And there's chocolate! Proven mood elevator!

What an interesting topic. I think it needs it's own thread! I think this is totally different than soothing ourselves as adults....or maybe that's just me, lol.

I have nothing to offer really, but am looking forward to other people's examples of soothing so I can use them on my inner children.

So far I've only been able to "listen with complete empathy" to my inner children when they express themselves in their diaries. They feel heard and accepted, boom. That has been what's healed me (to the extent that I have healed, lol) That counts according to the list, but as far as doing something "active" or initiating soothing before an event, I have no clue. I'm only good at rewarding statements AFTER she makes it through something ("I'm so proud of you. You were a big girl!")

Again the downloads aren't working for my computer, but I assume Pete Walker's Grief exercise is in the book. I have to get going on that book! I'm only in Ch 6.

( This post is actually by Butterfly. Sorry BF! I split the topics and somehow couldn't get yours merged into this thread at the right place. )  

Kizzie, self soothing is a good way to flip self medicating. So the paper said to come up with a plan so I searched for ideas to come up with a plan:

Know Your Self-Soothing Activities: Usually soothing activities are related to the senses. Different people are comforted in different ways and may prefer one sense over another. Sometimes what is soothing for one situation is not the same as what is soothing in a different situation.

When your alert system is firing danger, then physical activity may help, like playing a fast-moving game of racquetball or going for a walk.

When the upset is more about feeling hurt or sad, activities such as sipping hot tea or petting a dog may be more effective. The smell of apple pie baking, a beautiful sunset, the softness of a dog's fur, the song of birds singing, the taste of chocolate or the sensation of rocking. Reading a good book can be soothing for some. Being with a good friend, someone you feel safe with and loved by, can be soothing.

Some may be best soothed by focusing on a specific sense.  Some people are more visual than others and some are more auditory. Experiment with the different senses to see what works best for you. You may want to create a self-soothing box full of options that you know are effective for you. When you are upset hunting for a special song or even remembering what is soothing is difficult.  Put a list of your self-soothing activities in the box along with some of the objects you might need.

Create Self-Soothing Experiences:  A self-soothing experience involves more than one sense and have a overall feel of valuing the self.  Having your favorite meal at a table set with cloth napkins and pretty dishes while listening to music you love would be a self-soothing experience for some. A bubble bath with your favorite scent, a favorite drink, and listening to a book on tape could also be a self-soothing experience.

Other Self-soothing Activities: Performing an act of kindness for others can be soothing, particularly if you are feeling disappointed in yourself. Often helping those who are less fortunate is effective in that situation too. Accomplishing tasks such as cleaning your house or organizing your closet can help with uncomfortable feelings. Writing, playing, and  laughing can all be soothing by helping you detach and feel more in control of your emotional experience.

Focusing on your sense of meaning may be soothing. This meaning might be about knowing your purpose in life or it might be about a spiritual connection. Focusing on what is truly important to you can help you let the less important go. Consider prayer or meditation.

Finding out what works best for you through practicing self-soothing in different situations will help you manage your emotions more effectively. You may want a way of reminding yourself to self-soothe and what to do as people do not think clearly when upset. Motivation to self-calm in tense moments can be low.

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/emotionally-sensitive/2012/04/self-soothing-calming-the-amgydala/

( This post is actually by Butterfly too. Sorry BF! I split the topics and somehow couldn't get yours merged into this thread at the right place. )

Another list:
Effective self-soothing coping strategies may be those that involve one or more of the five senses (touch, taste, smell, sight, and sound). Listed below are examples of self-soothing strategies for each sense.

Touch
Soaking in a warm bath
Getting a massage
Relaxing in the warmth of the sun
Stretching
Going for a swim
Changing into comfortable clothes
Playing with an animal

Taste
Eating a comforting meal
Sipping herbal tea
Eating healthy food
Slowly sucking on hard candy

Smell
Shopping for flowers
Smelling lavender or vanilla
Lighting a scented candle
Deeply breathing in fresh air

Sight
Seeing a funny movie or watching a funny television show
Reading a good book
Looking at pictures of loved ones
Looking at pictures of a past vacation or places that you would like to visit
Watching the clouds

Sound
Listening to relaxing music
Singing to yourself
Saying positive statements to yourself or self-encouragement
Playing a musical instrument

When engaging in these strategies, make sure to focus completely on the task at hand. That is, be mindful of your senses and what you are experiencing, and anytime you are distracted, simply bring your attention back to what you are doing.

Come up with your own self-soothing strategies that you can do when you are upset. Try to come up with as many as you can. The more you can come up, the better off you will be in improving your mood when you are experiencing distress.

http://ptsd.about.com/od/selfhelp/a/selfsoothe.htm

Thanks for this. This looks interesting.

Thanks Kizzie. Here's some highlights from Walker on inner child that helped me understand better and is something I can work with going forward.

---

When a child’s mothering needs are adequately met, self-compassion is installed at the core of her being. When the same is true of her fathering needs, self-protection also becomes deeply imbedded. Self-compassion is the domicile of recovery, and self-protection is its foundation. When self-compassion is sufficiently established as a “home base” to return to in difficult times, an urge to be self-protective naturally arises from it. Living in the world without access to these primal instincts of survival is truly terrifying.
. . .
Self Mothering
Let us return to the concept of self-mothering. As mother to ourselves, we commit to increasing our self-compassion and unconditional positive regard. Self-mothering is a resolute refusal to indulge in self-hatred and self-abandonment. It proceeds from the realization that self-punishment is counterproductive. It is enhanced by the understanding that patience and self-encouragement are more effective than self-judgment and self-rejection in achieving recovery. You can enhance your self-mothering skills by imaginatively creating a safe place in your heart where your inner child and your present time self are always welcome. Consistent tenderness towards yourself welcomes the child into the adult body you now inhabit, and shows him that it is now a nurturing place protected by a warm and powerful adult. Self-mothering can be enhanced by thought-correcting the critic’s negative messages with healing words that the child in all likelihood never heard from his parents.   

Here then are some useful messages for nurturing the growth of your self-compassion and self-esteem. I recommend that you imagine speaking them to your inner child, especially when you are suffering with a flashback.

Reparenting Affirmations

I am so glad you were born.
You are a good person.
I love who you are and am doing my best to always be on your side.
You can come to me whenever you’re feeling hurt or bad.
You do not have to be perfect to get my love and protection.
All of your feelings are okay with me.
I am always glad to see you.
It is okay for you to be angry and I won’t let you hurt yourself or others when you are.
You can make mistakes - they are your teachers.
You can know what you need and ask for help. You can have your own preferences and tastes.
You are a delight to my eyes.
You can choose your own values.
You can pick your own friends, and you don’t have to like everyone.
You can sometimes feel confused and ambivalent, and not know all the answers.
I am very proud of you.

Self Fathering
While self-mothering focuses primarily on healing the wounds of neglect, self-fathering heals the wounds of being helpless to protect yourself from parental abuse, and by extension from other abusive authority figures. Self-fathering aims at building assertiveness and self-protection.   

One of my favorite self-fathering exercises is the time machine rescue operation. I have used it to help myself and to help clients. With clients I use it to model a process for fighting off the overwhelming sense of helplessness that often accompanies emotional flashbacks. This is a version of the time machine rescue operation that I use with myself as well as with my clients. I tell my inner child that, if time travel is ever possible, I will travel back into the past and put a stop to my parents’ abusiveness. 

This helps me understand why my primary problem is freezing and unable to protect myself. I was groomed to comply, I wasn't protected but instead enF passed onto me his own response of doing anything possibile to calm the beast including staying mute, apologizing, agreeing and to avoid it in the first place by making myself as small, insignificant and hidden away.

Tks for this Butterfly, I really find it helpful to think about the need to "reparent" myself.  I love the part in Walker's book where he talks about telling his IC he would go back in the time machine and send his parents to bed without dinner, and his IC "laughed in delight." I was was groomed to be a "good daughtter" too so the thought of being mischievious, cheeky and a little bit bad a** really appealed to my IC. 

These things are all SO helpful and interesting. Thank you for starting this off.
For my children I make sure they can come to me with all their emotions and hug them through it. Rub their backs, they sit on my lap, if they want me to just sit with them and take an interest in what they are doing etc etc etc
I want them to know it's ok to have anger etc and it helps them be very stable, it is so encouraging for me to see how mature they are, even more understanding of themselves and their own needs than I was when I was in my twenties and they are only 2-10 (4 children in between these ages)
Is thumbsucking a form of self soothing?
I also play piano and violin and write songs which really helps.

What do you do if self soothing is triggering? Has anyone else experienced this?
I believe self soothing is supposed to be calming, but even reading the lists of what to do makes me cry. It's like my inner child is sooo desperate for what she never got, that even the thought of getting a little soothing sends her over the edge. I've tried self soothing when I am upset, and it seems to result is an escalation of crying, up until I am so upset, that I am upset over being upset. I would feel like a complete ninny admitting this, but it is not a choice I make, it happens no matter how hard I fight it. I've even tried the opposite, of just going with it, same thing, a sobbing mess.
The only thing that works is to detach. My T has helped me create a 'peaceful place' in my head. If I concentrate I can focus on that, and go there in my head, then I can calm down.
This topic has been very helpful, in that I now realize that thinking of self soothing triggers an EF.
My uPDM was one who liked to say, 'I'll give you something to cry about.' So no soothing there. And my enF said 'Don't upset your M, you know how she is.' so no protection there.

"All of your feelings are okay with me."

I LOVE THIS ONE!

Also I read the other day in Walker's book somewhere in the codependent section:

"Disapproval is okay with me."

I smile and laugh because part of me loves it and another part thinks it's crazy. I used to be triggered into suicidal feelings from rejection so I have improved a lot with this, but seeing this sentence made it seem so unimportant (getting approved of). Hopefully I can truly make it sink in.

Quote from: bee on September 16, 2014, 05:15:01 PM
What do you do if self soothing is triggering? Has anyone else experienced this?
I believe self soothing is supposed to be calming, but even reading the lists of what to do makes me cry. It's like my inner child is sooo desperate for what she never got, that even the thought of getting a little soothing sends her over the edge. I've tried self soothing when I am upset, and it seems to result is an escalation of crying, up until I am so upset, that I am upset over being upset. I would feel like a complete ninny admitting this, but it is not a choice I make, it happens no matter how hard I fight it. I've even tried the opposite, of just going with it, same thing, a sobbing mess.
The only thing that works is to detach. My T has helped me create a 'peaceful place' in my head. If I concentrate I can focus on that, and go there in my head, then I can calm down.
This topic has been very helpful, in that I now realize that thinking of self soothing triggers an EF.
My uPDM was one who liked to say, 'I'll give you something to cry about.' So no soothing there. And my enF said 'Don't upset your M, you know how she is.' so no protection there.

Bee, I'm not sure how to ask about this, so I will give an example and maybe you will know if it's the same thing.

Once recently I got mad and ripped up a paper I had made that had an inspiring message on it. (Cant remember why I did this, lol) Then my boyfriend got the pieces and taped them together and came over stood next to me and pu this arm around me and handed it to me. It was the nicest thing anyone ever did! And I cried and cried. What he did was so perfect (altho in the past he would just yell at me--he's got PTSD too and we trigger each other to our pasts a lot!) It was something NO ONE ever did. Noon ewas ever patient and understanding and tried to make things better for me. So it was just too much! I also felt a little undeserving, but I tried hard to let myself accept this gesture of love & caring.

Another example is from my childhood--I remember when i was crying once, I took my teddy bear's hand and wiped my tears with it, feeling like he cared about me, but it backfired--I cried way harder then!

It is kind of confusing but I think it's ok to cry about it. Maybe it's a good release if you do. IDK.

Quote from: bee on September 16, 2014, 05:15:01 PM
What do you do if self soothing is triggering? Has anyone else experienced this?

Now that I think of it... yes, a bit. My reason is different from yours. I can't trust good things. I think it's because my mother regularly blew up "for no reason". She had reasons enough, of course, but since she "protected" my brother and myself from knowing the worst things, we never had a way of knowing what mood she'd be in. So the abuse came erratically. It really felt like someone was flipping a switch. Ever since, I can't trust it if people are "too nice" to me.

Why is that? Hm. I think for one thing, I was caught in an up-down-up-down, wavy kind of rhythm: aggressive emotional and some (mild) physical abuse, followed by neglect and the "softer" forms of abuse (withholding, trivializing, "advice", "helping"). And yes, that got interspersed with really good times. But those good times are a part of the pattern. So people being "too nice" makes me think the whole pattern is going to start all over again. It's Pavlovian, probably.

And if people are "too nice", that might mean (so my child self thinks) that they have over-blown expectations in me; that they simply mistake me for a person who deserves all that kindness and attention. Soon as they'll find out what I'm really like, our relationship will freefall into abuse.

Lastly, my life has taught me to be wary. Anyone can be in an exceptionally good mood that makes them be suddenly generous towards you. That won't last. It's fairy gold that melts away in the morning. What lasts are slow, steady acts of affection.

And my mother's a Hero Child who was parentalized at a young age. She's a very helpful, generous person, but then pulls back and distances herself when she gets exhausted. So she can go from a high degree of kindness and care directly to Medium Freeze. So maybe I'm still misreading kindness and care as a part of that kind of thing. I prefer low-key kindliness to a shower of affection. A pendulum that swings too far in one direction will swing just as far in the other.

Also, having had a taste of good things (kindness, or an abuse-free environment) makes the return to "normality" heartbreakingly difficult.

Funny. At first I thought our stories are really different. But your question has made me realized why I'm sometimes so avoidant when it comes to taking care of myself. Thanks for asking that question, then.  :)

Also Pete Walker talks about if you find it difficult to love yourself, this is similar to being triggered by self soothing I believe. He says because of our parent's abandonment we abandon ourselves. Maybe this is where the trigger starts.....(pg 249 CPTSD from surviving to thriving: Pete Walker)

Hey Bee - I have had this exact reaction, I just didn't realize it before. There was a time whenever I'd go to the doctor's or was in the hospital I would feel like I wanted to break down crying, not because I was afraid but because they were taking care of me!   It brought out a deep, deep hunger for any form of caring and triggered an EF.  I hadn't thought about my reaction in a long time.

And acts of kindness have sometimes triggered me too.  So it's not only negative things that can trigger us, the positives (things we crave like love, tenderness, caring) can as well - yes.  Tks for your post Bee, it has given me some more insight into EFs and soothing. Back to your reaction though, would it help to work with your T get through the grief in smaller, more manageable steps do you think?
 

pam - yes that's what I mean. Thank you for understanding.

schrodinger's cat - I also feel very uneasy when things are going well. Anytime I got to feeling too good about anything my uPDM would swoop in and do something that would make me wish nothing good would ever happen to me again. Thank you for showing me the connection.

Annegirl- thank you for the Pete Walker reference about self abandonment, I will look into that.

Kizzie - thank you for sharing that you too have experienced this. I think my T saw how difficult soothing is for me, and that's why she taught me how to calm myself with a peaceful place in my head.

Because of suggestions on here I asked my inner child what she wanted to do when I was upset earlier this week. She said she wanted to draw. So I got some paper and crayons and was calm in minutes. It is sort of letting my inner child soothe herself, but it worked.

That is great! Now You have one tool that You can use to help YOU!

Bee, I'm glad you asked and then let your inner child do what she wanted. Inner child expression always works for me too. I believe they are the ones who need to work it out and feel what they need to. In my life, the more I let that happen, the less flashbacks I will have. Makes total sense, doesn't it?  ;)

I have a question for everyone--especially Kizzie, since you mentioned how being taken care of (at the doctor's or at the hospital) and other acts of kindness have triggered that hunger for caring. I totally relate to that too. I have actually cried like a baby in the past from nice comments people wrote on my blog over at SAS. I feel like my younger self at the time and I'm happy but crying those hot tears that hurt when they come out! Ok, so I was going to ask: How do we know that we are having EFs? Couldn't it just be that we are more sensitive all around? (I also cry when I watch Disney movies or if I see any child at all on TV who is crying, I have to cry along with them). Maybe I just answered my own question--I felt like a kid again.......But what I don't understand is what EVENT or experience am I flashing back to? I'm not sure. Usually I flash back to negative things.

Also what happens when we get "better"? Are we going to be less sensitive?!?  :-\  Because honestly, I like that I cry easily--I just want to feel more comfortable/less embarassed about it. I don't want to lose that trait.

Oh yes, those hot tears that hurt Pam, I know what you mean.

I think there is a difference when I'm crying because I'm having an EF and when I'm just sad or happy about something in general.  And as you mentioned, I feel like my younger self is doing the crying  whereas when  I watch a sad movie (that doesn't trigger me in some way), it is adult me. It's not the same welling up of painful emotions that seems to accompany EF crying - like when I would go for medical care and I would experience this deep yearning for care (although I'm not sure I knew then quite what was going on). 

And I don't think it's always a particular event that we flash back to, in fact that's the difference between PTSD and CPTSD (although we can trigger because of a single event - confusing I know), it's all the backlog/logjam/repressed feelings from being abused that we shoot into if I am understanding Walker correctly.  In my case it was emotional abuse so when I flash back to use Walker's word, a "melange" of feelings rush over me, the deprivation, loneliness and the loss of love and safety I felt in my childhood rather than specific scenes of being physically or sexually abused. I may occasionally see an incident where someting abusive happened, but usually it's this rush of feelings.

That's my take on things at this point in my recovery anyway. Good questions/points Pam (and everyone) - really helps us unpick this CPTSD tangle  :D

Hi, all.  I have found Belaruth Naperstak ' s six CD Guided Imagery for PTSD very healing.  I listen often, especially when going to bed, as often as I need to alleviate symptoms.  Also Dr. David Illig - Stress reducing hypnosis with subliminals.  Both are excellent.  Naperstak ' s work is phenomenal.

Quote from: bee on September 19, 2014, 04:23:28 AM
Anytime I got to feeling too good about anything my uPDM would swoop in and do something that would make me wish nothing good would ever happen to me again.

This is exactly what growing up was like for me, and the reason I have trouble self-soothing today. Thanks for putting it so succinctly, Bee, though I'm really sorry you were treated that way.  :hug:

My issue with self-soothing is that so often it wasn't allowed. Due to the nature of my mother's personality disorder, she becomes angry if other people are comfortable or happy. It's very threatening to her. Particulary for her scapegoats, if she discovered something was soothing or brought pleasure or happiness to them she would make that a target of intense shaming. I won't go into specifics lest it be triggering, but suffice it to say that most things on lists for self-care and self-soothing bring feelings of shame and humiliation when I try them. The only things I was really left with as a youngster were things mother ignored or that she couldn't control. This left very few healthy behaviors or activities. Some were outright unhealthy (like developing anorexia, for example.)

I still haven't thought of a way around this.

This is such a deep pain.   In reading this, my chest hurts and tears flooding my eyes, with hurt for you and others, and for myself as a kid.

Self-care, self-love punished.    Such emotional abuse.

Out and out cruelty to a child.

 :sadno:  I'm sorry to hear how bad things were for you, zazu.  :hug:  A parent's job is to teach their kids how to be a grown-up. To actively punish a kid for being mature and independent and self-loving is absolutely atrocious. Do you think you could slooowly nudge your way into normal self-soothing? Say, if you were to take up one eensy thing that feels the least forbidden/shameful, and you gave that a shot for a week or two... would that work, or would that simply be two weeks of distress and guilt that you could well do without?

The reason I'm asking is this. My mother found it alarming if I was exuberant or wanted to try out new things, so she ended up warning me of dangers until I became so afraid that I only left the house to go to school or help her with her shopping. I'm still having great difficulty getting past that. A part of me is dead sure that I'm inept, incompetent, endangered, and unlikely to ever contribute anything of value. This nudging method is one that has worked in the past. It's a bit snakes-and-ladders though - as soon as a REALLY REALLY bad flashback hits, the work is undone and I have to start all over again. Still, every little helps. I found it a lot easier to overcome my resistance towards "trying out a Korean recipe that I liked the name of" (my mother considers almost all foreign food a risk one had best avoid) than it is to overcome my ENTIRE fear of ALL things.

Rain, I'm sorry if I made you feel bad.  :hug:  But it's okay to cry for each other and ourselves. I think...compassion is such a valuable human quality, there should have been more of it in our lives when we needed it.

Schrodinger's Cat - I can try your suggestions, see if it works for me. I do have a lot of fears similar to yours. Life would probably be more managable if I had a more rebellious nature, then it wouldn't be so upsetting to go against all those injunctions laid down in youth. But then again, I must have rebellion in me somewhere, because in many ways my character developed in an opposite way to my mother's and the rest of my FOO. There's a name for that, but I can't remember it at the moment. 

Still, there is much confusion, between my own sense of integrity and values and the toxic shame I'm carrying around. It's painful. The emotional flashbacks have been rough today. These are what I used to call "annihilation anxiety"  because it feels as if I'm shattering into a thousand pieces and disappearing due to the fear. But Pete Walker's description of emotional flashbacks is much more informative and helpful.  I may start a journal on this board to try to sort out these feelings.

Without realizing it, I did do something to distract myself from these feelings today that was a bit rebellious and could have been triggering, but managed it through logical thinking this time. I found myself watching ballet videos online...this hardly seems "rebellious" but mother used to mock me for wanting to be a dancer (my sister had ballet lessons but I was forbidden). I used to burn with humiliation when thinking about the things she'd said. But it couldn't really stop me from enjoying watching the dancers, even if I felt shame over my desire to be one.  I was probably lucky that I didn't have a ballet mother! While watching the films, I thought that these dancer have gone through intensive training to create an art form...my mother has no control over those dancers, mother should have no control over who can enjoy that art form, either. Logic doesn't always work, but it seemed to help this time.  ;)

Thanks for your advice.

Phew, I'm glad it was alright. It's impressive that you managed to do something nice for yourself even though you must have been exhausted from all those EFs. That probably makes it count double, what do you think?

Given what you said about your mother, developing in an opposite direction to her sounds like a very good thing. She sounds like she wants to be in control of you, so becoming your own person in that way can't have been easy. So I'd agree with you, that definitely speaks of an inner core of strength and of independent thinking.

QuoteThese are what I used to call "annihilation anxiety"  because it feels as if I'm shattering into a thousand pieces and disappearing due to the fear. But Pete Walker's description of emotional flashbacks is much more informative and helpful.

Do you relate to what he writes about this "abandonment depression"? He says something like, it's a mixture of shame and fear caused by our original abandonment. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I get this terror that I'm going to fade and disappear and be lonely and cold forever. Which might or might not be similar to what you mentioned. I'm wondering if it's Walker's "abandonment depression" thing. Could be.

Posted by: zazu
« on: November 08, 2014, 06:06:35 AM

My issue with self-soothing is that so often it wasn't allowed. Due to the nature of my mother's personality disorder, she becomes angry if other people are comfortable or happy. It's very threatening to her. Particulary for her scapegoats, if she discovered something was soothing or brought pleasure or happiness to them she would make that a target of intense shaming. I won't go into specifics lest it be triggering, but suffice it to say that most things on lists for self-care and self-soothing bring feelings of shame and humiliation when I try them.

I think taking care of Myself was partially caused by Family..when I became a teenager then on Saturday Am I would start getting ready for Date night with then Girls. We used to have to put curlers in our hair wait for it to dry and then backcomb the crap out of it so it looked high and poofy. My uNPDM got mad at me then and told me if you think You are going to primp every Sat. while I do all the house work well You are mistaken...You are going to help me clean house on Sat.  :'(

OCDuNPDH Was so very jealous when we got together.. that I quit taking care of Myself.  That included using Make-up (when I wore Make-up he was SO sure I was going out to meet a MAN!)  :aaauuugh: wearing Nice clothing, or anything that caused Him to rage.  :blowup: I really think that HE was the end to me taking care of Myself. (or else My disease progressed. ) before I met him I was a hair stylist (25 yrs) So I always toke care of Myself then.

I have to self talk a LOT to get in the shower I try and tell Myself how good I will feel afterwards, how much I will like it..etc. I still stall!  ??? :blink:

He was talking the other day and telling ME he SEED PLANTED to keep the people of the trailer court in line as he put it! It dawned on me that he is brain washing US all! 

Keep On Keeping on!

Sorry, but what's "to seed plant"? Google refuses to spit out an explanation.

SCat,
In America many of the revival type preachers talk about giving money to get money back. the preachers commonly call it seed planting. I believe in tithing but these preachers seem to go above board in their promises. So, My unpd husband has taken the context of preachers seed planting to a new level by calling Brain washing seed planting. What he is saying is that IF he tells someone something often enough then they do what he wants!
keep on keeping on!

Quote from: zazu on November 08, 2014, 01:06:35 PM

Quote from: bee on September 19, 2014, 04:23:28 AM
Anytime I got to feeling too good about anything my uPDM would swoop in and do something that would make me wish nothing good would ever happen to me again.

My issue with self-soothing is that so often it wasn't allowed. Due to the nature of my mother's personality disorder, she becomes angry if other people are comfortable or happy. It's very threatening to her. Particulary for her scapegoats, if she discovered something was soothing or brought pleasure or happiness to them she would make that a target of intense shaming. I won't go into specifics lest it be triggering, but suffice it to say that most things on lists for self-care and self-soothing bring feelings of shame and humiliation when I try them. The only things I was really left with as a youngster were things mother ignored or that she couldn't control. This left very few healthy behaviors or activities. Some were outright unhealthy (like developing anorexia, for example.)

I still haven't thought of a way around this.

This sounds so familiar zazu, I am now finding ways to self soothe and I thought the other day, if my mother could see how peaceful and happy I am at times, relaxed I have my own personality, i sing, hum do things now that I know she would have told me were crazy and ridiculed them, the other day thinking about this I was so inwardly kind of smug that she couldn't stop me or say anything to me and how much of myself I didn't know about me and how much she doesn't know who I am.  These are personally some happy, soothing thoughts

Oops, I just saw the replies to my November 8th post! I'm still having a little trouble navigating this site so ...sorry about that. :blush: I'm sorry you all have had similar experiences. It's really not fair, is it? Really, what did they expect would become of us, not even being allowed healthy, human, self-soothing behaviors? Even animals in the wild are able to lick their wounds.  :'(

Recently I was able to put another item in the self-soothing category that I can accomplish without guilt or shame (though it is a tad embarrassing). I realized that watching fashion videos gives me a feeling of peace and contentment. It's embarrassing because fashion is so superficial - but this is probably why it's pleasant. I think so much. Way too much! With fashion, you don't have to think, just look. Like a vacation for the mind. :)

Maybe it's a bit like the ballet. It's visually interesting, and my mother has no more control over the fashion world than the ballet world. My NPDmother might think everyone should wear rags, but she can't stop Paris fashion week! See, that's the rebellion kicking up again.  ;D

This might seem a surprising comfort for someone who was shamed over her appearance, but in my teens I worked as a hairstyle model (yeah, a funny occupation for "the ugly sister" - needless to say I did not get the job through my FOO) and it was a fun and happy experience with lots of positive reinforcement. That may be the reason it escapes the shame feeling that pollutes so much else.

I hadn't thought of it like that before - fashion as self-soothing. But it makes sense. I can see the appeal.

I feel similarly about my necklaces and rings. They're cheap, and I rarely buy any, but those I buy, I like a LOT. They're my way of telling myself that I deserve good things, and I deserve to have the good things I want, not the "ladylike" gold jewellery my mother thinks I ought to want (and keeps gently "encouraging" me towards). I would like to be like that about my hair, too, but it always does what it wants and is a terror to style, so we're more like enemy combatants who respect each other's bravery.

I love it ZaZu and SC. Zazu I totally get the fashion thing. I'm into that too. And SC it's surprising how these small things help us to know ourselves better. I love how you write.