Out of the Storm

Hi all!

It's been a while since I've been here.  As some of you may recall, I started a master's in education program with a concentration in trauma and resilience in the educational setting.  It is heartening to know that more and more schools are becoming trauma-informed and changing practices.

Through my studies, I am learning about all the ways trauma can affect the developing brain and how this affects learning and behavior.  There is a lot of focus on cognitive deficiencies and acting out behaviors.

While I suffer from complex-ptsd and a dissociative disorder, I do not fit the descriptions of the trauma-affected students I am studying.  I was a very good student academically and behaviorally. I was social and somewhat popular, so I wasn't necessarily struggling with social skills.  I do recall having trouble regulating my emotions.

I am curious to know of others' experiences in school.  Were you the student who was withdrawn and disengaged?  Did you have poor attendance?  Drop out?  Were you the student who acted out, disrupting class and getting into trouble?  Did you struggle with your studies or excel or were you an average student? 

So far, there has been no mention of trauma-affected students who excel in school.  I suspect many of you did well in school and would not have been suspected of suffering trauma.  Just curious.

Be well,
Kat

I did not do well in school. I didn't trust the teachers, or any adult. Although I had an above average iq my grades were abysmal. I did not participate in school activities. Although I had friends, we were the ones hanging out in the park getting high. I did not attend school regularly.

In my senior year I found subjects that I was interested in and took my GPA from below 1.5 to 3.4.

First and second grade I was withdrawn. I remember in second grade looking at the other kids and telling myself that I needed to act like them. A part of me broke off to "act normal." From third grade on I was social, not the most popular, but had friends. My grades were average to above average. I will note that all that was the outside. On the inside I still felt like the child standing against the wall at recess and I felt stupid. Being social was just another way that I tried to survive.

This topic greatly intrigues me but I'm having difficulty building a coherent explanation without dragging everyone into an open-ended confused description of my wanderings in schools. All I can do is give an bird's-eye emotionally difficult scenario of how the cptsd parts crossed with the schooling part.

Regarding the schools, I had a high natural learning instinct that never got traction within the route the religious schools I was at wanted me to fit -- obey or else, etc., mixed in with some very horrible abuses of all sorts. Just surviving that was remarkable, looking back. Albeit I also have the sad realization that so much of the abuse parts never stop affecting parts of my current relatively 'safe' life.

And yes, I did 'act up' as it were, in a unique way -- by allowing my academic prowess to outdo theirs, especially in the final 2 years of high school. This followed what I can only describe as a mystical moment when I was directed to run away. I did, but they actually didn't care and/or were too scared of me on the one hand, and notably incapable of dealing with the inside stuff that drove me away -- one would think they'd be upset or expel me but it was like by that time they'd given up on me; as I apparently had on them ever being anything besides absurd bullies in holy drag.

Okay -- from being a social outcast I attracted a group of what the school considered ne'er-do-wells but who found my willingness to have literally run away (just for a day, mind you) appealing. I added another twist to my revolt, though, which surprised all -- I aced every academic subject possible while deliberately failing the religious propaganda courses. There's more to that (like changing denominational affiliation)  but that was the gist through the high school travails.

I started off at a decent college I liked academically, but socially I was extremely awkward and nearly destroyed; I couldn't fit in with a very appealing social side to this place because of my overall people fears that had settled in long before from FOO and even worse earlier school abuses.

I ended up at a public university which I loved primarily because they had a huge library in which to hide (literally) most days.

Through it all I ended up in very non-traditional lines of work. Basically, no matter what I did an important part of each leg in life has been to NEVER EVER be like the people I was around in the early years -- had some neat experiences later but as mentioned my social skill set never caught up. On the other hand, yes I'm a 'freeze' sort which has its downside, but as Walker points out also can veer towards discernment and more mindfulness, a kind of backwards upside to the otherwise trauma-strewn developmental years.

Hope this covers a bit of what my own journey within and after the slog out of the life I was trapped in as a kid. I'm still at work trying to shed the baggage weighing me down, but parts of it are also hopeless. Thinking back, though, my form of 'rebellion' at least aided that journey to find anything worthwhile on which to build a life that seems more heart-driven, and not just reactionary. In the words of a great author I discovered recently (Carolyn Spring) -- my best revenge is recovery.


Nice to see you back on here again, Kat.

Absolutely Kat.  I often point out on Twitter that many kids experiencing trauma do not get poor grades, act out, etc. They fly under the radar by "acting normal" as Notalone suggested, masking their pain by being overly responsible, doing well if not excelling in school.  I was that kid.

It's just another way of coping with/surviving trauma that is much less visible but just as damaging. I've noticed here that things tend to unravel for us in mid-life when life stress peaks, when we can't maintain the facade any more because there are just too many demands on our internal resources. I was that adult.

Anyway, I think you're spot on in this - sounds like a great thesis topic  :yes:

This is a very interesting topic

I suspect I was regularly dissociating in elementary school (when my abuse was at its worst). In the early grades, I recall being considered "slow". I was the last kid to be able to memorize the alphabet and my address and left vs. right, etc. I recall a teacher got angry with me a lot, but I don't remember what exactly I had been doing to set her off, or whether I even understood what was the matter, as I was in a near-constant fog (plus I was used to adults yelling at me)

It turns out I was quite bright and ended up excelling in middle school and beyond, and even got a graduate degree and fancy jobs in my profession. The one time I took an IQ test, the score was well above average. This seems at odds with my inauspicious beginnings, but I was terrified from a very young age of not being able to make a living and thus being vulnerable (like when I was a child) and potentially dependent upon someone who might, again, end up abusing me. So basically, I attribute my later-school and career success to terror (rather than passion, of which I had none) as the driving force (...yay?)

But even when I was doing well in later secondary school and college it was a real battle, as I had tremendous difficulty with focus and attention, and to this day it really dogs me. I suspect it's one of the reasons I ended up dropping out of the workforce prematurely. It just got to be too much.

FWIW, on that final note, at least based on my own experience, I think Kizzie's right about the middle age thing... It wasn't until I was pushing 50 that my functionality really began to decline, following several decades of productivity. It's like I finally broke under the weight of all the effort it took for me to act normal and accomplish things despite all the turmoil going on inside

Thank you all for your responses.  I am taking it all in right now.  I will respond more thoughtfully later, but I wanted to let you all know how much I appreciate you! 

Kat, I find this a painful topic. It's been my paradoxical experience that although I was able to perform well academically throughout my education, no achievement was ever sufficient to banish a debilitating level of self doubt. So, while on the surface I was resilient, in that I kept on jumping hurdles, inside me I was never able to grab hold of my abilities and own them with confidence.

My experiences from infancy onwards so eroded my sense of self that external validation such as excellent academic results seemed flimsy to me. I held them at arms' length. It was as if they'd happened to someone else. They couldn't undo the damage done to me at some fundamental level. And it didn't help that my parents (and later my husband) angrily refused to acknowledge what the outside world recognised as achievements and abilities, because they flew in the face of my designated role in life as a subservient household drudge.

My lack of self-confidence has been painfully visible to others throughout my life - exploited by many, ridiculed by some. I've been openly derided as 'weak' both in social contexts and in the workplace because of it, and the shame and humiliation that entailed has been difficult to bear.

So yes, trauma broke me at a fundamental level that has left me 'weak' in the world. Weak and isolated. But it did not destroy my inborn, robust cognitive abilities and a strong energetic spirit that has rebelled, albeit with many setbacks, against the confinements and erasure that I faced.

I'm sure that without my academic and creative gifts I would have long ago been crushed by life so, although I'm sad that I've not been able to enjoy them as I could have done, some at least of my inborn abilities survived the trauma and have been crucial to keeping me alive into old age.

QuoteIt's been my paradoxical experience that although I was able to perform well academically throughout my education, no achievement was ever sufficient to banish a debilitating level of self doubt. So, while on the surface I was resilient, in that I kept on jumping hurdles, inside me I was never able to grab hold of my abilities and own them with confidence.

This totally resonates with me bluepalm  :yes:  I am so sorry for the pain you went through and are left with to this day.  I am trying to substitute "injured" for "weak" these days to hopefully raise awareness that we are battling through life with debilitating layers of trauma that would exhaust anyone, and that we succeed at all is nothing short of a miracle.  You will NOT be erased here ever  :grouphug:

Kat one thing I would add is that in my case my parents loved when I succeeded, it was about the attention they got from it. No recognition of the hard work I put in or real pride, just an N response which left me feeling yet again like an object, something that was only valuable if it brought attention to the family.  I did not feel like I owned my successes.  My son is doing really well academically and I see the same thing - my M loves it for the attention it nets her. He knows she has NPD and has our real love and pride so he's not wounded by it like I was.  Anyway, not to hijack this thread but just wanted to shed some more light on how children of trauma do have a variety of responses.

Thank you for asking about this topic. It has been a source of guilt for me at times. I was the kid that excelled in school and still does. I have a high IQ and had a very high intellectual ability. For me, school was my escape and a coping mechanism. It was something I was good at naturally. I was a 4.0 high school valedictorian who gained access to some elite colleges, but I was always told I was never enough. My academic performance was natural and at the same time was a coping mechanism meant to please my abusers into being kinder. It has created a really bittersweet relationship with my own intelligence and talents.

I guess all that to say, you are not alone in excelling in school. It is a really under-explored area and one that allows too many kids to fly under the radar because we look normal or even above normal sometimes.

Elphanigh's description captured very much my experience too. So, Kat, you are not alone in being the highly functioning student at school. In Pete Walker's book, he talked about how much safer he felt in the army than with his family. In the army, there were clear rules. You follow them, you get rewarded. You transgress them, you get punished, while at home, there are hidden landmines everywhere. That really describes very well what I felt at school. I was a good student, followed the rules, kind to my fellow students, did real well in exams and extra-curricular activities. I was loved by my teachers and fellow students. I had much happier school memories than many of my friends who had more loving families than mine.

Also, the idea to become the best and get into the best college became a hope for me during those late teenage years. I chose to believe that once I've given my mum what she wanted from me - best of the best - then we are even and I would be free to live my life. Problems started when I actually did get into the best college, and they continued when I tried to get a job and enter into the "real world". There, it's no longer enough to obey rules, listen to the teacher, know how to study for exams. People want boldness, creativity and confidence from their top students or candidates for their competitive jobs. Well, after spending years developing skills to be very sensitive to what other people what from me, and being polite and obedient, I had no idea what I would want to create nor did I have a single shred of true confidence left.

This topic made many thoughts and feelings stirring up.  Thank you all for sharing as it helps to see myself better and thus being able to heal better.  :cheer:

My school years were chaotic. Having no aid in getting my things together for bathing or sports.  Having clothes for the right seasons summer (hot) winter (snow and ice). My clothes were in a disrepair. Started to use socks when I married LH. Not having breakfast before. Not sleeping in peace at night.  It was difficult to concentrate on the lessons.  Feelings of being a ugly duckling, shame for not having been able to get my things in order...  :whistling:
Hungry. (Not a word thought of in this socially "safe" country.  Someone here had a start of introduction post that spoke of third world countries.  Well this is not.  But that gives a whole set of other issues. ) When I was in fifth grade a girl from my first class met me and she told me that I had In middle of class all of a sudden gotten up on my desk stating; " No! I don't want to!!".

Nosebleeds and stomach aches. Was normal life.
But I was also the one that protected others from bullying.  I was a sports player.  I sang before the class.
So I was able to do things that were innate to me.

Stopped going to school at seventh ( 14 years old)grade.  Then I would have still been mandated to go on for two more years.
No adult spoke up. :fallingbricks:

Luckily for me I love reading. So could read a book a day! I taught myself to read at six. English I started to learn by reading the translation and pairing the words together!(?)!!
And so forth.
But no I have never been able to get any degree of any kind.
Made a IQ test that said that I had a degree worthy of a university degree in my head. But unfortunately not on paper.

Pete Walker's book, he talked about how much safer he felt in the army than with his family. In the army, there were clear rules. You follow them, you get rewarded. You transgress them, you get punished, while at home, there are hidden landmines everywhere  - thank you for adding this Arale!
My friends became the underdogs and criminals and people using drugs.  The people who others were afraid of  - they showed respect and with them I was safe.
The world was a very confusing place.
I can not for my life understand why teachers, doctors and other adults never spoke up in order to help me? Why? There were laws that should have been followed... :Idunno:
I was not popular in school except looked for when somebody needed help.  And that is still true in my life. To be a fellow human a degree is not necessary..  :grouphug:

I started writing about this, and it got long, so I posted a different thread. But, I just wanted to say that the studies that say kids act out and make bad grades- that might be true for some, but my experience was totally different. I was not allowed to make bad grades, AND, I was smart and enjoyed learning on my own. I loved learning, but came home to threats and put-downs. It was a mess, but I had a lot of trauma at home and made almost straight A's, so I was completely off of the radar, I think.

You all got me re-thinking my own experiences in school.  Although I have three older sisters, I was terrified of going to kindergarten.  I held onto the chain-link fence that encircled the kindergarten room and would not let go.  My mother ended up dragging me home muttering about what a stubborn brat I was.  I also cried all through grade school.  EVERYTHING made me cry. Teachers had me pegged as "sensitive."  My therapist has suggested I finally felt safe enough to cry when I was at school. 

Because my father was a teacher, it was understood we would do well in school and go on to college.  I can also see though that I have always attempted to be perfect because I believed it would make my borderline mother ok.  She told us that if only we weren't such irresponsible little brats, things would be better and I believed her.  On the other hand, she would accuse us of having "swollen heads" or of being "too big for our breeches" if we did too well at anything.  My sister told me that she threw a race in track in high school because she didn't think she was supposed to win. 

I think teachers should have been a bit suspicious of all my crying.  They might have been.  My first-grade teacher used to stop by our house to chat with my mother.  I just figured it was because she had taught a couple of my other sisters as well.  Now I wonder if she was checking up on things.  I was clothed in hand-me-downs in elementary, but so were the rest of the kids.  But in high school, I think someone should have maybe noticed that I wore the same white shorts and purple sweater and a pair of sneakers with holes worn in the soles all winter.  I did ask my high school English teacher years after I graduated if she had suspected anything amiss.  She said no and she had trained as a social worker, so...
Anyhow, thank you all so much. Your responses have been so helpful to me. 

Thankfully there seems to be growing interest in childhood trauma and developing programs to foster understanding, awareness and build in protective factors in education.  I truly hope this means fewer children will fall through the cracks like you Kat.   :hug:

Hi, I just wanted to share my experience of school as well, although it's a bit different from everyone else.
From kindergarten till 4th grade, I was in an English speaking school. However, after my 4th grade, my family and I moved to France, and I attended at first a french (private) bilingual school for one year, and later on till 12th grade, a french public school. Now looking back I would suppose that if I had stayed in an "all" English speaking school for my whole life, then I would probably have had good grades, and my story would be like most of yours. However, when I moved to France, I was 11 years old, and I understood that French was a language that I could not understand and not be confident in, as I didn't really know much of french prior to moving. Therefore, throughout my whole school education, I have never felt confident in French and I fear homework and classes, as most of my subjects are in French. This means that I have not learned much in subjects such as science, philosophy, economics, french literature, etc. and I am triggered many times if I try to learn or read about these subjects when at home. Thus, my grades in most subjects are average and below average.
I guess I just want to know if someone out there has had a similar experience like mine, and not feel so stupid about my situation (I've felt like that after explaining some of my problems to other people).
Also, I just wanted to say that right now I'm finishing 12th grade, and this year has been the hardest for me, symptom wise. I get triggered so many times by teachers and homework assignments, and I even skipped almost 3 weeks of school because I would just be overwhelmed so many times. Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, then what has helped?

Hi Marta and welcome to OOTS.   :grouphug:

I can well imagine what a struggle it must be to receive your education in a second language on top of having CPTSD. It's getting a bit late in the academic year but it might help to see if your school has some tutoring/extra assistance available because you're struggling. You may even want to explain why it's more than just dealing with a second language. 

Do you live on your own or with your parents? Are they the source of your trauma? (It would help for us to know a bit more about you.)

Quote from: Kizzie on February 20, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Do you live on your own or with your parents? Are they the source of your trauma? (It would help for us to know a bit more about you.)

I do live with my parents, and they are partially responsible for it, but most of it is because of my older brother. The thing is that this is a big public school, so I've just presumed that most teachers don't care about you personally. I haven't reached out to any of them, but especially because I feel like I shouldn't have this big of a problem with the french language as I've been in a french school for more than 7 years, therefore most people assume that I don't have a problem.
I want to also thank you for your reply, it makes me feel less alone.

 :grouphug:  Students can struggle at any time and I imagine your school knows that and would be willing to help. 

Marta, thank you for sharing your story.  That must be such a frustrating and isolating feeling. 

Unfortunately, you moved at a time when your ability to pick up a new language was starting to diminish.  When I was studying language acquisition in college, we were taught that it takes seven years for a person to become fully fluent.  However, I think that they are finding it takes longer than that.

You're probably capable of conversing well in French, so people do not see the extra work you are having to do as a language learner.  On top of that, academic language is not the same as conversational language at all, so that's an added handicap. 

I admire your bravery and strength.  You were placed in a tough situation.  You might try reaching out to one of your teachers.  Sometimes they simply don't know you need help or they don't know how to help or what might help.  Be well.

Quote from: Kat on March 25, 2020, 03:26:25 AM
  When I was studying language acquisition in college, we were taught that it takes seven years for a person to become fully fluent.  However, I think that they are finding it takes longer than that.

That depends on how "fully fluent" is defined. I live and work in a non-English-speaking country and even though I did a B.A. in the language before I came, I would say it took me longer than seven years to become more or less bilingual. I would say "bilingual" is more than "fully fluent" but again it's how you define it. Also if you add some other problem to the mix like cptsd - well, it just could take longer.

To really be able to learn all those intellectual, academic subjects like philosophy, economics, French literature etc. and write about them or discuss them in class requires fluency, which you didn't have when you started in the French public school system. cptsd is a cumulative problem and not understanding at school is cumulative as well. The problem will tend to get worse if nothing is done about it. ime - I tutor school children.

Quote from: Kat on March 25, 2020, 03:26:25 AM
I admire your bravery and strength.  You were placed in a tough situation. 

:yeahthat:

Quote from: Kat on March 25, 2020, 03:26:25 AM
You might try reaching out to one of your teachers.  Sometimes they simply don't know you need help or they don't know how to help or what might help. 

:yeahthat: although I know it can vary by country, school and even teacher whether a teacher would be willing to help.
How about your parents? Would they maybe be willing to pay private tuition for you for the rest of the school year in the subjects where you have most problems? Or just in French? Teachers might also know where you can get good tutoring. Sometimes parents might pay this kind of thing even though they don't want to know about the causes of cptsd in their family. Paying for tutoring is 'safer' than having to look at themselves.

I didn't experience any really tough situation like yours when I was at school, but my parents did move quite a lot back and forth between 2 different English-speaking countries. Even that was difficult. Different school systems, different curricula, variations in language, changed schools in different years from everybody else, even mid-year sometimes. On top of all that: ongoing cptsd. Not just unacknowledged by family, but positively denied. It was really tough, I have no idea how I finished highschool - I scraped through, totally depressive and with my brain often blank. Fortunately I was able to go on to university where I did a lot better. I feel for you  :grouphug:

Marta, I've no desire or need to overwhelm with my own views from my vantage point somewhat further down life's strange path. But I do feel drawn to point out one thing -- your best teacher is yourself, and you've shown great courage and self-care by reaching out here when your other avenues seemed closed up.

I hope you can keep at it, even when it seems so discouraging.
The best learning, for good or ill, still comes from within.
:hug:

Well, I would say that I exceeded in school, and graduated two years early. I didn't have any friends, and was teased and bullied a lot mostly because I didn't have school supplies, dress well, or have good hygiene. I was never in trouble for anything other than rolling my eyes or correcting teachers. I corrected teachers regularly, and exacted my defiance subtly. School was my way of trying to be loved. I thought if I did THE BEST, I would be loved, or even noticed by someone, but I wasn't.

That's very interesting I guess for me it depends what age in school you are referencing. In grade school I was a poor student, acted out, disrupted class, got in trouble etc. With life experience, I relate it to a deep sadness that is till can't really piece together.

High school through college was a different story. I was more withdrawn. I had core group of friends but I just did my thing and preferred to be in my head. I was definitely withdrawn. Rarely actively participated in class. I had no problem eating alone etc. I did do well though, exceedingly well. Perfectionism started taking over during this time to the detriment of my health. I always got good grades (mostly As and some Bs) but it came with a price. It wasn't uncommon in college for me to only get 2 hours of sleep a night for months.

I know this is a pretty old thread, but thought I'd jump in anyway because I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I was home-schooled for most of my childhood, but when I did go to school as a teenager, I was probably every teacher's dream student. I paid attention in every lesson, I got my work in on time, I was polite, I was never disruptive in lessons, I helped other students when they didn't understand something. One of my teachers actually used to direct other students to me when they needed help with something. She would say, "I'm just helping _________, could you ask Alwayslikethis?" I realise now that was another example of me being given too much responsibility, but at the time I didn't find it weird because I was so used to being given adult responsibilities at home it just felt normal. And, actually, I really loved it because I looked up to my teachers and wanted to be one myself, so I liked being given extra responsibilities. In my mind, it elevated me higher than the other students and got me closer to being on the same level as the teachers.

I was really desperate to please the teachers and I feared being reprimanded. I once got into trouble for helping another student too much (i.e. I did his entire assignment for him - I was desperate to please everyone, basically) and I felt so humiliated I worked extra hard for teacher approval after that because I felt like I'd let my teachers down and had essentially failed them. I think from an outsider perspective, I just seemed like a great student, but the reality is that I was just desperate for approval from adults in my life. Everything I did as a child was to gain adult approval.

Wow! This is an old thread, but it has been so helpful to read all responses here. My IC has been so busy scolding me for even thinking the thought of having CPTSD. I've always performed well in school and have never had any behaviour problems. Perfectionism hanging over me at every task, minor or major.  Desperately trying to be good enough. Like someone else mentioned, I've never really been able to acknowledge my accomplishments, which is very sad really...
Thank you Kat for starting this thread! It has calmed my confusion for now.

Not sure why I didn't spot this thread before.

I was the quiet, withdrawn kid, borne out in my school reports where it seemed that teachers were not even sure who I was, I was so far below the radar. Never acting out, or playing  truant but often ill as my immune system was terrible.

I certainly did eye-rolls in primary school, more from not knowing what to do or where to look whilst a teacher was examining my work.

I was bullied throughout school and stuck with a small group of people I felt safe with. I was also a day dreamer and never raised my hand unless I was absolutely sure I was correct and no one else volunteered. Of course, generally I was asked things when I my head was elsewhere.

I did ok, average although in a Grammar school, so only the brighter kids went there. I did ok in exams at work too. I think it started to unravel when I had children myself, too many other things to put first ahead of my own studies.

Basically I was trying to survive without anyone noticing me.

G

Quote from: arale on January 23, 2020, 09:57:19 AM
Elphanigh's description captured very much my experience too. So, Kat, you are not alone in being the highly functioning student at school. In Pete Walker's book, he talked about how much safer he felt in the army than with his family. In the army, there were clear rules. You follow them, you get rewarded. You transgress them, you get punished, while at home, there are hidden landmines everywhere. That really describes very well what I felt at school. I was a good student, followed the rules, kind to my fellow students, did real well in exams and extra-curricular activities. I was loved by my teachers and fellow students. I had much happier school memories than many of my friends who had more loving families than mine.

Also, the idea to become the best and get into the best college became a hope for me during those late teenage years. I chose to believe that once I've given my mum what she wanted from me - best of the best - then we are even and I would be free to live my life. Problems started when I actually did get into the best college, and they continued when I tried to get a job and enter into the "real world". There, it's no longer enough to obey rules, listen to the teacher, know how to study for exams. People want boldness, creativity and confidence from their top students or candidates for their competitive jobs. Well, after spending years developing skills to be very sensitive to what other people what from me, and being polite and obedient, I had no idea what I would want to create nor did I have a single shred of true confidence left.

I can so relate to this. Growing up in a family where achievement was everything, I forced myself to bring home straight A's at any and all costs, so that I would not have to face the wrath and shame that my parents would deal to me otherwise. I pulled all nighters starting in middle school all the way into graduate school in order to deliver exceptional reports and to excel at tests. I didn't have time for friends, it was not encouraged, and I didn't enjoy that interaction because fun was portrayed to me as a sin. I didn't have time for my own interests, it was also not encouraged unless it was something impressive I could include on my transcript.

So to appease my parents, because otherwise I would be kicked out of the family, I worked myself to the bone to study something I wasn't naturally interested in and something I wasn't naturally good at. I graduated from a top university only to find out as Arale said, the real world has no closed system like in the classroom where there's a single authority figure, planned tests, planned preparation time, and an objective ranking system. Because the job market is so open-ended, those who have confidence, initiative, and resilience (all the emotional skills that were crushed by my parents) tend to have the most success.

Now I'm still in this field that was not my choosing, and wish so hard that I had listened to my true self back then. I know being a minor, it probably wouldn't have been possible, but then that just makes me more angry that I was born to these parents.

I apologize for the length of this post but I think it's helpful for me to put it out there even if no one reads it.


I relate to so, so much in this thread. I am really not surprised that so many people here, whether they excelled or not, are highly intelligent people. Just the way that the posts are written displays a high level of intelligence.


bluepalm beautifully stated something I have experienced--

Quote from: bluepalm on January 21, 2020, 10:35:21 AM
It's been my paradoxical experience that although I was able to perform well academically throughout my education, no achievement was ever sufficient to banish a debilitating level of self doubt. So, while on the surface I was resilient, in that I kept on jumping hurdles, inside me I was never able to grab hold of my abilities and own them with confidence.


My experiences from infancy onwards so eroded my sense of self that external validation such as excellent academic results seemed flimsy to me.

I'm sure this is common among us, but my childhood was one of deep shame and "othering." My brother and sister were not abused, and I was told that the abuse was my fault, that I deserved it. When I was eight I told my mother that I wanted to tell my guidance counselor or teacher about what my father was doing to me and she told me that they would just laugh at me because "nothing wrong is happening to you." She was an elementary guidance counselor herself, so of course I believed her and really internalized the shame and doubted myself and my perceptions of reality--still do to this day.


I think I was a pretty good student in elementary school, but honestly I have few memories of my childhood. Like Kat said about her crying going unnoticed, in third grade I cried during the pledge of allegiance every single morning. One day in the beginning of the school year I thought about how bleak my life was and started crying, and even though I was immensely ashamed and tried so hard to stop, I guess there must have been a really strong cue associated with the flag and the pledge that I just could not stop it. No one said anything;  the class just recited the pledge and my teacher never said a word to anyone.

Quote from: Kat on February 13, 2020, 06:21:25 AM
My therapist has suggested I finally felt safe enough to cry when I was at school. 

This sentence actually gave me goosebumps. I never thought of that. I think while I was deeply embarrassed about the crying, at least I wouldn't get hurt for it in school.


One thing I do recall from grade school was that I always had just one best friend who, as I see it now, displayed strong signs of BPD--controlling, manipulative, jealous, cruel. I still wonder how I could have ended up with this series of budding abusers, but I guess it was just because I was so very timid, such low self-esteem--I was an easy target and I would put up with it. I remember in fourth grade I consistently forgot to bring home the textbooks I needed for homework and got in a lot of trouble when my parents had to bring me back to get them. I think I had issues with dissociation, which caused a lot of forgetfulness.


In high school, I excelled, but without doing a lot of work or paying much attention. One French teacher would constantly say that I looked at her like her cat looked at her. Now I realize that was the glassy-eyed stare of dissociation. I guess I learned pretty early on how to make perfect eye contact and even smile and nod when I actually was not hearing anything that was said, so I was perceived to be attentive. My parents expected me to get good grades but never praised me when I did, and I think I just took the AP courses and got good grades because I thought I was supposed to, because that was what everyone else was doing.


I breezed through classes like AP Physics without even doing my homework, despised by the whole class for messing up the curve, but I still never thought of myself as smart. One reason was that my brother and sister were in the gifted program, but when I was tested I didn't get in. It was determined by an IQ test in fifth grade, and I distinctly remember multiple questions where I just said I didn't know the answer because I thought I would sound stupid if I tried to explain my answer. But then by the end of high school it became apparent that I was actually far more intelligent than my siblings despite the family mythology.


When it came time to look at colleges was really when it first occurred to me that I was intelligent. I ended up going to one of the best schools in the country, and my parents really, really took this to mean that they were excellent in some way, like Kizzie mentioned. My father especially would boast about it all the time, but neither of them had ever taken notice of my accomplishments up to that point, and they certainly had had no hand in it. And my personal response to my achievements was one of disbelief and maybe something like imposter syndrome, feeling like it was all some big mistake.


The college I went to was extremely rigorous, and even though my grades and scores were above average for the students there, I walked into every class convinced that I would fail, that I couldn't match the other students' intelligence and work ethic, that I didn't belong. So I would be afraid to go to class at all, and almost every semester, I would get halfway through and decide to just give up entirely on half of my classes, because I was never going to pass anyway, so why was I bothering to torture myself. In addition to the trauma I didn't realize was trauma, I struggled with an eating disorder, addiction, and bipolar disorder. I went to college on and off for three and a half years, my parents pulling me out every time I failed a class, until finally they pulled me out permanently after a suicide attempt in my fourth year. Others said that they functioned well until mid-life, but I functioned well until a very, very abrupt shift upon entering college.


I am still learning about all of these factors. It's been a very long time since I dropped out of college but I am now probably going to try taking a community college class in something that used to come naturally to me to try to build back up my confidence in my academic abilities. I wonder sometimes what my high school classmates would think if they knew what my life was like now. When I graduated, it seemed that I was without a doubt going to do incredible things with my life. But I guess that was because no one, not even myself, knew how deeply I was struggling behind the scenes.


Kat, I don't know if you are still reading this, but I think what you are studying to do is so deeply important and I really have incredible respect for those who work to better the education system.

Hmm.
I guess it was a midway for me. Academically, I did excel. Socially....not so much  :whistling:

Very interesting topic. School was one of the few places were I could "do something right" and please adults. So academically, I did very well in school. I'm one of those read it, don't really need to study much people. Friends, though... 1 or 2 close people, generally unpopular due to never having the latest trendy "stuff" or clothes or opinions or even interests. I was usually a loner, occasionally hung out with a stoner. Never did drugs, they were simply more honest than the popular people. Played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons with 2 people. (1st edition!) My best classes were always English because I read several grades above (I'm the nerd that understood Shakespearean English in freshman English) and chorus. In general, though, I didn't like the social aspects of school. Never gone to any reunion.