Posting this so I can have posted something, there's only so long one can stare at an empty text box.
The words will know when (if) they're ready to flow. There's no timeline on theses things, and we'll be here if you need us
:grouphug:
:yeahthat: No pressure Sligeanach!
Toe in the water. Way to go. :thumbup:
Thank you all. That means so much more to me than I realized it would.
It takes a lot of courage. You did great :cheer:
Hi Sligeanach,
I agree, it takes a lot of courage.
Hope :)
It was difficult for me to get started here, too. I thought, what could I possibly have to say that's of any importance?
Finally, I started. It gets easier. And it's quite helpful to be validated and supported, as well as accepted into a group of people whole heartedly without feeling like you're an imposter or have to hide away all the ugly bits for the sake of fitting in.
It's my hope you will have the same experience here.
:heythere:
Thank you kind friends.
I think I'll just vent a little, if that's ok. I don't understand why I can't recover from any mistake. As soon as I've made some careless error, I just fall apart. I lose all my confidence and competence. Suddenly I'm useless, helpless, and just keep making it worse. It's saddening and frustrating.
For many of us, myself included, mistakes were an invitation to be abused emotionally, physically, and/or sexually. Mistakes caused us to be laughed at, bullied and rejected.
Mistakes can prompt a return to that same emotional state we experienced when we were helpless. It's possible you are experiencing an EF or emotional flashback. Here's something to read by Pete Walker, someone who is frequently referenced here - http://pete-walker.com/flashbackManagement.htm
Hope this helps. You're not alone, I hate making mistakes.
:heythere:
I understand completely what you mean, and Three Roses said it pretty well. I also suffer from this. You're not alone.
Offering a supportive hug if that's okay. If not, it's okay to to not accept it.
Thank you Three Roses for sharing the link to Pete Walker. It's taken many days for me to bring myself to read it, and I suspect it will take many days for me to be ready to work with the tools he offers. Thank you Gravity for the kindness of your offer and the compassionate way you respected boundaries and vulnerabilities.
TW?
Well. I've eaten all the m&ms I gave myself to strengthen me to face this. Nothing personal to the kind people who have replied, nor the 200(?) others who have viewed my basically saying nothing. What does 243 views mean? Does it count each time I open this up to almost make an entry? I digress. I'm stalling. I'm only posting on mobile, and that makes it less real and serious, safer almost safer somehow. Which is probably silly, why would that be safer? This isn't what I was going to write about. I should delete it, I should post it anyway. I'm not saying anything, I'm exposing myself somehow, I'm trying to get attention, I'm always trying to be looked at, and never ever seen. To * with it, I should keep going, if I write enough, I can hide in a wall of text, and nobody reads a wall of text anymore, everything is TL:DR
heh heh the preview shows a star, an asterisk actually, H E double hockey sticks. I was just thinking I should have put TW at the beginning just in case, I don't know maybe. I'll put it with a question mark.
Ok here's the thing: nothing bad is happening, not compared to what I have been. I'm watching over my shoulder if I think about it, because I haven't had an episode. There I've said it. It's terrifying, like it will get me, like maybe it overlooked me somehow, and if I don't say anything, it won't notice, like not saying the devil's name aloud, like using a euphemism like Old Nick, like using an asterisk in place of... Well, you know.
Risky. A space. That breaks the wall of text. Suddenly I'm visible.
Another one. Here I am poking my head out of my shell. Sticking my neck out to get my head chopped off.
Now. It's this too. Didn't even dissociate just this night, felt the pull, the memory of it, but here I still am. But who is it that is me?
Nobody, nearly nobody. Working and working to be looked at but not seen, to be whoever it looked like I was supposed to be.
Only one woman knows me, and I even hide from her sometimes, many times. But she took me back, compassion and love, forgiveness, even after everything.
But now to find the strength, the will for more. Up or down? No plateau, all is flow, shrink or grow.
Not what I imagined when I spent an hour pretending in my mind that I was journaling here. So clear, so composed, but this?
It's what I have. What else I have to work with? At least it's something real.
Sligeanach, I wanted to come by and tell you, thank you for sharing your thoughts in your journal to us. I know it's very scary at first to try to be open and vulnerable on this forum, when numbers like views and unknown members feel scary.
I also wanted to add that posting through mobile as a safer option does not feel silly at all. In any case, sending support your way and a hug (if it's ok). :hug: I know how terrifying waiting for some bad flashback can be, although you might be talking about something else. Whatever the case, I wanted to tell you that we hear you. I hear you. And I believe you. :)
Quote from: sligeanach on November 18, 2020, 05:45:10 AM
Only one woman knows me, and I even hide from her sometimes, many times. But she took me back, compassion and love, forgiveness, even after everything.
To be seen can be scary and even dangerous. To be attuned to by someone safe----life giving. (That is what I thought when I read your post.)
Thank you marta. Sometimes I feel so alone. I don't have any friends at all, and I'm sure that's a bad sign, but I just can't trust anyone enough to let them see me, with one exception.
People stop by and say kind words here. I wish I was doing that, but I don't know what to say in other journals. And sometimes they're hard to read.
I wish I could give more, be better.
I'm still here, no episodes, but I'm always afraid, always hiding panic... And not always successfully. Reacting without thinking, avoiding decisions,
They call it flooding, but it's not flooding. Flooding is submerged, submersive. You can move through water, tread water, swim up and out.
It's not a wave, it's a dune. Not water, but sand. Immobilizing, entombing.
How am I to heal, when reading about a symptom triggers the symptom?
Thanksgiving went well, very well in fact. Perhaps the best ever. No episode, and the family came together. But after, I could not connect with my one and only. I disengaged, and went to put away the leftover turkey, when it was time to connect and together decide how we would spend our evening, now that the family activity was done.
She tried to connect with me, but I was unavailable emotionally, and then couldn't find the way forward to connect. And then she left, there was nothing she could do.
So I looked for Gottman's Seven Principles on my Library's website, and borrowed the ebook, and got as far as the description of stonewalling and flooding.
And then felt the overwhelm.
And I remembered now, that this was exactly where I stalled before, that I dissociated the last time.
So I reread the Walker page on flashback management, and tried to practice square breathing, and thought of the Litany Against Fear, and posted to my journal.
I can feel the sand in my lungs, burning at the edges of my nerves.
These tools, these few and precious tools to keep me here and now, feel so weak against the lifetime of habitual escape.
I'm not trying to emerge from it, nor exhume myself, it's neither water nor earth. It is sand. Micah and Silica, abrasive and asphyxiating.
Too easy to surrender to the weight of it, when every effort of extrication is is a fresh onslaught of terror, a repudiation of my nascent skills.
Fear IS the mind-killer
Quote from: notalone on November 19, 2020, 03:35:24 AM
To be attuned to by someone safe----life giving.
She told me yesterday that I can validate myself. I want to do more than that, to be able to revitalize my self; to have something of my own life to give.
I've been zombified and vampiric, parasitic and ravenous, desperately craving the unmet needs of youth.
The hunger, the void consumes me; will devour her if she permits it. It nearly has.
How are you doing today, sligeanach? I can relate to the fear of being seen. It takes time to allow for it, as we need to make sure it is safe. Safety is imperative. You can dip your toe in with this, as you have been doing here. You can do it with that one person you have in your life. What notalone said - it is life giving. We are here to support you along the way. :cheer:
Quote from: owl25 on December 09, 2020, 01:56:42 PM
How are you doing today, sligeanach?
I am surviving.
Thank you for asking.
I was able to choose to set a plate down, and take deep breaths, instead of throwing it down. I will never be that person again.
I don't want to go into it. I can't right now.
I have been journaling daily beginning on December 3rd of last year. It is probably helping.
I also started on The Body Keeps the Score and From Surviving to Thriving. I got them as e-books on my phone, which has proved useful, because I can click away when they are too much to read, and then come back to them later in the day. It's the first time I've preferred a virtual book to a real one. It allows me to manage it better.
Sligeanach, I wanted to pop by and send you my support. I'm sorry you've been having difficult days, I wish I could do something but sending you all my care and support :hug: Hope you feel better in some days, and sending you a hug (if it's ok) :hug:
Thank you Marta.
Good to hear from you. Those books were hard for me to read also.
So... It's been awhile
Hi. I'm new here. Read back a few of your posts and see you've been struggling with dissociation. Me, too. It's tough and can just suck you up without even seeing it coming. I noticed you mentioning things like square breathing when you dissociate?
Can I share what I need to get out of dissociation? I know we are all different...but I really need to move. Walk, run, throw something, jumping jacks....if I sit and try to calm myself that just feeds the shutdown. I need to get the sympathetic nervous system going. It's still not perfect...if it gets me too fast.
Welcome back, I look forward to getting to know you.
Hi Armadillo, thanks for the welcome. Kind of sounds like movement gets you back into your now-body. Is it weird that I picture you rolling really fast, like an armadillo version of Sonic the hedgehog?
Ha! Yeah it probably is a little weird, but funny.
Quote from: sligeanach on September 06, 2020, 05:26:38 PM
Posting this so I can have posted something.
so... it's been a year since I started erratically and intermittently posting to this journal. that's all I've got for now.
It is often difficult to find the words. Thanks for sharing what came up.
:wave:
You have pared it down to the essentials. And that coupled with your avatar makes me smile. I hope you'll come back again to say whatever you are able to.
thank you rainydiary and armee. all I can write now is that I'm stressed, and just need to express it somewhere. I have too much in my life to repair. I appreciate nobody asking me for details, I have this false idea that I have to explain and justify myself, and so it feels strange to just write that I'm having a hard time and not say why, nor what I'm trying to do to fix it. thank you for just having a place where I can write only that.
I'm here, hearing you. Im sorrybitbisna tough time right now and you are under so very much stress. I'm glad to know you are here. :hug:
I can relate to feeling like I have to explain myself because I had to all the time growing up. I appreciate you sharing what feels right to share. I am thinking of you. :hug:
:pissed: :spooked:
Quote from: sligeanach on November 08, 2021, 08:36:31 PM
:pissed: :spooked:
Argh!!
I open this thing up and log in because I'm so angry: at myself, at my stupid trauma
Then I'm just paralyzed and post nothing. Argh!!!
and I know why it's so hard to do this, but knowing doesn't make it any easier. or make me any less tired. so tired of carrying this trauma around. like this is something I can just drop, and what are my choices? stay conscious of it all the time and be all the time working on it, or tune it out and let it get me, and then start messing up my life, my family.
I can' t ever just be ok, like just hey, living my life, doing my thing. let myself feel like I'm ok for a while, and pretty soon discover i've been somebody else again. and the whole time thinking i'm totally making sense. fargh!
i don't want to hav to be dealing with this every damn day.
I've been checking in on the forum a lot today as today is a challenge for me. I'm here with you carrying a lot and am grateful for you sharing.
hey rainydiary, I'm glad you said that. It's obscenely difficult for me to post here. (I didn't pick a turtle, especially a turtle named Mac at random, you know?)
I'm finally maybe ready to admit that I need a regular program of work, one that I keep doing when I feel okay. it seems obvious, but it's so easy to just not want to think about all this when it's not getting in my way.
there should be a five stages of trauma, like there is for grief. or maybe it's the same thing.
What you say resonates with me. Expressing ourselves as well as the up and down of managing trauma is so difficult. I appreciate you trying to find what works for you.
hi rainydiary. Well then, I'll just keep at it. Posting what works for me.
Thank you for the encouragement
Can't keep doing this up and down, this getting better getting worse b.s.
I need to build, to grow. A whole life. Steady incremental improvement would be better then this "life is great, have hope!" / "There's no hope, all is lost!" Up and down existence
More Kaizen, less Kaiju
If it's welcome, a hug...
:hug:
My lowest moments are these: "but I thought I was better. I thought this wouldn't happen."
Thanks armee
Ok, so I've read the guidelines again, because it's been so long, and if I'm going to start using this recovery journal forum for journaling some recovery then I'd better know what the guidelines are.
But beyond those very basic and sensible guidelines, I feel like I need some ground rules for myself as well. How can I do a thing if I'm not sure what I'm meant to do?
So. The beginnings of a definition are knowing what a thing is not. For a thing to be defined, it must be finite. It's a basic condition.
So. This is not an epistolary narrative. Neither is it a private diary
Unfiltered, pen to paper. The Swype stumbles, slowing me down; I'm editing as I write
Which is fine, I think. So long as it doesn't become a hindrance.
And the thing itself has convenience; I can have a tab open on my phone and add as I'm able. Life continues and doesn't allow me to simply keep writing as long as I feel like.
I'll keep posting in pieces, though. Lest I lose the entry because of the browser closing on me, or what have you.
Sitting quietly with morning coffee, the heat and solidity of the mug, the weight and ache of my temples, jaw, shoulders, lumbar, calves, feet.i am here but also i am stopping being just here to write that i am here,
Sitting here again with my morning quiet coffee and feeling the grief-pain in my heart.
A major task change challenge is knowing and being myself; acknowledging and seeing asking seeking to to what is needed for my human being self needs
But first risking testing that it's safe to be me, to be anyone other than what I perceive the expectations and definitions limits requirements around me are
I've been like a viscous liquid that adjusts into the shape the vessel in which is poured
Years so long, that I'm not knowing really who I am. Sometime when there is no impetus, I just sit and do nothing, empty and waiting
Saturday morning, the only one who needs to be up is me, to get ready for work. And it's a mixed up feeling, not making breakfasts for everyone. And first it's nice, but then it's uncomfortable.
Because it's not for them, it's not a giving, it's a taking. "Tell me what to do, tell me who I am"
Even if I resent it, I still need it.
Maybe I do need to slow down, pause, ask more questions.
Maybe trying too hard to prove myself,, and rushing around it's never going to get me anywhere.
Maybe I'm too wrapped up in trying to be right and good enough.
Maybe I need to relax, and take time to understand where others are, what their experiences and perceptions are.
Not be in my own head so much
Really it's not that I'm trying to be right, so much as I'm trying to not be wrong. I'm trying so hard to not be wrong and do the wrong things that I've done before, that I just blunder into wrong things that are different. Just new different ways to do the wrong thing.
Just too anxious perhaps, too much fear.
I've been thinking of Sundays as my recentering days, but I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.
I think lately it's been more of a recovery/recuperation day. It is my one day with no morning alarm, and for now the only day that has no structure.
So I've been collapsing on Sundays, after six days of overindulging in coffee to prop up my... I'm not sure how to put it. My rabbit self.
I keep dancing around the Jekyll and Hyde metaphor, never acknowledging that Jekyll deliberately drank his concoction to escape himself, the constraints of responsibility, to be... What? Free of empathy and conscience. And consequences.
By the time he realizes his antidote is temporary, it's too late. The Hyde poison has built up in his system and he becomes Hyde in his sleep. He loses himself and commits suicide in his increasingly rare lucid moments of being himself.
Do I need a coffee Lent, a fasting? How much is too much?
Comorbidities. Hateful word. But appropriate.
Need to practice my "people first" language on myself.
If I'm going to be the same person everywhere
Just trying to think about how much work there is: it's exhausting
What can i do about that, how to see it differently?
Read part of "Peace is Every Breath" yesterday. The entire practice is simple, but surprisingly difficult.
It really is simple, and effective. Breathing in, breathing out, embracing and observing and inhabiting the sensations, simply letting them be.
Downloaded and subscribed to Andrew Johnson's app. It's amazingly difficult at first to schedule in the short meditation recordings, then gradually easier to choose to do them as scheduled.
Just being in my body, without judgement, here now
Rage. Hatred. Venom. Directed at myself, or at my own son
Or this morning, waking up in a diffused generalized rage at everything, every one, every sensation, every thought
This is what it meant by "evil taking root" it's in my cells, my fibers and suffused through every part of me.
Evil. Vicious, hateful, hurtful evil.
Virulent, parasitic, evil
Origin and meaning of *med- by Etymonline
It forms all or part of: accommodate; accommodation; commode; commodious; commodity; empty; immoderate; immodest; Medea; medical; medicament; medicaster; medicate; medication; medicine; medico; medico-; meditate; meditation; Medusa; meet (adj.) "proper, fitting;" mete (v.) "to allot;" modal; mode; model; moderate; modern; modest; modicum; modify; modular; modulate; module; modulation; mold (n.1) "hollow shape;" mood (n.2) "grammatical form indicating the function of a verb;" must (v.); premeditate; premeditation; remedial; remediation; remedy.
It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Sanskrit midiur "I judge, estimate;" Avestan vi-mad- "physician;" Greek mēdomai "be mindful of," medesthai "think about," medein "to rule," medon "ruler;" Latin meditari "think or reflect on, consider," modus "measure, manner," modestus "moderate," modernus "modern," mederi "to heal, give medical attention to, cure;" Irish miduir "judge;" Welsh meddwl "mind, thinking;" Gothic miton, Old English metan "to measure out."
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*med-
You know, just want to be the same person everywhere. I'm in a helping profession, but then what? I'm used to even I get home? Sounds like I'm faking it then.
Hi Sligeanach,
I was reading some of your journal, and wanted to say something. I feel a bit embarrassed that now I'm here intending to write something, I can't think of the right words. But I wanted to say that I found some things you've said very grounding - particularly when you mention holding the coffee cup.
Hope :)
Ah, Hope, you've brought tears to my eyes. This work can feel so lonely, she like there's no end to it.
I was here thinking mindfulness practice doesn't bring the promised peace, just more pain, more awareness of how deeply the wounding runs
I didn't realize how desperately I was longing for anyone to respond to me, and now I'm so grateful that you posted despite the embarrassment.
I can't fully explain it, but you've given me a reason to keep trying
I've reset my Plum Village app to play the bell of mindfulness every 19 minutes, this is an improvement
I'm reading Anam Cara, rereading. I wasn't ready for it before. I'm reading it more slowly, for itself
In "Peace is Every Breath" , Thich Nhat Hanh writes that mindful breathing is the airplane seatbelt keeping one from being thrown about the cabin when turbulence comes along
That practicing breathing, walking, sitting, and working on mindfulness for a few weeks will free one from the trauma of the past
Wow! Every 19 minutes is a commitment! Let us know how it helps!
If I had to pick one single tool that has been the most helpful in recovery. I'd have to say hands down it is mindfulness.
I often don't comment in your journal...mostly because your entries feel very personal....from yourself to yourself. So I'm glad that you wrote to Hope that it felt good to have a response and I will try to write in here more, if that feels good to you.
It's the "few weeks" part that's significance to me
My reading elsewhere, from several sources, indicates that any behavior consciously chosen, despite the pushback from the self, for the span of an entire moon cycle, becomes part of one self, and no longer must be chosen
Hi Armee,
The 19 minutes is less of a commitment than it sounds like, partly because it only seems to function intermittently. I'm not sure if there's too many apps running in the background on my phone, or what. But when it has been chiming, it's been a real help to pause myself and take three breaths
Yes, you are welcome to reply in here. I don't know any other way to write in this than the way I am. It's more about getting it out of my head, where it's so diffused. The act of slowly Swype composing on my phone is like a lens
Meta can block Metta
Thinking of what I am doing, I am no longer doing it
Looking at a map is not looking at the path
Looking at the path is not walking the path
Even one breath fully taken with the bell is enough
Have to be careful about when I read Walker and have to read in little bites
You're not alone with that. It's smart to take pieces as you can. I still haven't read Walker's book. But the same is true for me for Van Der Kolk and Janina Fisher.
I have "body keeps the score" and "surviving to thriving" downloaded on Overdrive. I kept *losing* the books and *forgetting* that I was reading them. But my phone is obviously nearby all the time, so I can read a screen or two of one or the other from time to time
So grateful for "Quick Reply"
The loading time and wall of smileys is enough to stop me writing
Years of protecting myself at all cost, as my only motivation, severing whole portions of my life, my self, becoming smaller and smaller, and being smaller feeling more in danger, and and so on round and round until nothing is left
"it could end, you know, with me going out altogether, like a candle. And she wondered what the flame of a candle looked like when it was blown out, for she could not recall ever having seen such a thing
That's my approach, too, to reading those books. On my phone, a paragraph or page at a time.
I hope instead of getting smaller and smaller, eventually it becomes safe for you to grow into who you are meant to be, without the trauma tainting it.
that is my hope for us all, Armee
"You can never love another person unless you are equally involved in the beautiful but difficult spiritual work of learning to love yourself. There is within each of us, at the soul level, an enriching fountain of love. In other words, you do not have to go outside yourself to know what love is. This is not selfishness, and it is not narcissism; they are negative obsessions with the need to be loved. Rather this is the wellspring of love within the heart." -- Anam Cara, by John O'Donohue
"It's you I like,
It's not the things you wear,
It's not the way you do your hair
But it's you I like
The way you are right now,
The way down deep inside you
Not the things that hide you,
Not your toys
They're just beside you.
But it's you I like
Every part of you.
Your skin, your eyes, your feelings
Whether old or new
I hope that you'll remember
Even when you're feeling blue
That it's you I like,
It's you yourself
It's you.
It's you I like."
-- Fred Rogers
Hi Sligeanach,
I read this poem that you wrote (by Fred Rogers) earlier today, and was thinking about it whilst I made my breakfasr. I think it's such a lovely poem, and I think that parts of myself enjoyed the fact I was recalling it, as it is really non-judgemental and really kind and welcoming of every part of a person.
Hope :)
:-) to you Hope
Mister Rogers was one of the kindest people ever
Sunlight shining through a window reveals smoke and dust in the air, but only fresh air blowing in pushes it out
I want to be the same person everywhere
The bell chimes, inviting me to remember that I am
Why should I let ghosts of the long past destroy my future?
"Think you of the fact that a blind person cannot see. What senses do we lack that we cannot see and hear another world all around us?"
Cleaning the kitchen is easy. What is cleaning? It is moving what is unwanted from one place to another. Away and out
Better to do one thing at a time, and fully do that one thing only.
Five fingers become one fist, they are the same hand of doing
Destruction is mindless, needing only one blow
Creating is mindful, needing all five fingers
Kindness and cruelty are counted on the same hand, they have the same weight
Five fingers, one fist
Thus kindness seems smaller, five kindnesses weigh the same as one cruelty
That's really powerful, Sligenach. The one about the fist. Did you write that?
Beautiful!!!!
Quote from: Armee on November 29, 2021, 03:47:48 PM
That's really powerful, Sligenach. The one about the fist. Did you write that?
Thank you Armee. Yes that's from me
Dog Everything
Need the equivalent for
Frustratingly inchoate, incoherent
Doesn't help that silencing is triggering
Need outlet, venting, expression
Full stop... Remove self... Express Rage in Contained Environment
Channel, Corral,
Crisis Management
Cortisol
Adrenaline
Dog Everything
Disengage
Disperse
Decompress
Nope, no good
Metaphor failure
Dog Everything = everyone participated in the emergency stop
What is my goal? If my goal is unclear, my tasks are unknown.
What is my destination?
If I have no destination, how can I choose a route?
I'm here and wishing I knew how to bring you comfort. I care and wonder what you are going through.
That is a comfort Armee, just reading that over and over.
I've been having dissociative episodes, or maybe one long episode of varying intensity for maybe two, three weeks.
I've brought home yet another book. "Living Nonviolent Communication: Practical Tools to Connect and Communicate Skillfully in Every Situation"
So I'm hopeful about that
Sligeanach, I hope that you find something that supports you in your reading. I am not sure if this the same concept presented in the book you referenced, but earlier in my healing journey (and honestly still from time to time) I found the feelings and needs inventory from this site helpful:
https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/feelings-inventory (https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/feelings-inventory)
Hi Rainy, yes it is the same
"reverse the polarities"
It's a trope
Why is it a trope?
Because it's a truth
The energy is flowing backwards
Just as Evil is the reverse of Live
Dissociation sucks.
It sucks because it's very hard to stop once it starts. It's hard to have the presence to do what you are supposed to do when you are dissociated.
For me I need to find a way to laugh and I need to tell someone the thing that made me dissociate even if I don't 100% know. Usually what happens is I tell and then I feel stupid and ashamed but I know how to deal with those. Can't say it's the healthiest solution. And usually working up to telling makes it worse.
I hope your dissociation lifts soon and little by little it lessens in intensity.
I've yet to achieve the ability to know I'm dissociative on my own
I'm told and then react in a manner akin to the stages of grief
It ends with heartrending cleansing tears
Once I'm told, I know it hasn't ended until the tears come
When at last they do, the world is washed clear and I'm myself again, for a while
Wow. That must feel really intense, once you are able to feel again. Thanks for sharing that.
It does. I'm still awaiting it. I'm currently shifted from denial/fighting to fragile/spacy
It's strange having awareness of it, it's new to me
Perhaps it's progress
It sounds like great progress, to me! My first step was knowing I dissociate, then recognizing when I am dissociating, then recognizing the telltale signs it is happening, then recognizing them earlier, then learning tricks to get out of it faster, then learning to recognize it before it happens so I have a chance to stop it. When it happens I have to do something. I have to fight to be present. But I also have to accept it. Panicking that it is happening makes it worse.
Good luck. It's a long process of learning and mindfulness.
Thanks Armee. That's such a clear description of the process!
It's been pointed out to me that when I'm dissociated (as I still am) I don't pause in my speaking with anyone. There's no intake of the other person's ideas, hardly any intake of breath!
So I think a useful tool for me would be to practice a pause-breath technique of some kind. Maybe it'd give me, the real me, a chance to hear what's being said and respond whole-heartedly
That's a good idea. Maybe even write it on paper and keep it with you. I cant remember what I'm supposed to do when it happens.
Or maybe some kind of token or totem of some kind. Something i can hold onto to help me stay here
Yeah. For awhile I had a list of could grab, on my phone....
Tell spouse
Pet dog
Throw ball
Run
Stomp feet
Watch something funny
Smash a rock
I don't want to be "a victim" anymore
The evil I've done and the good I've failed to do, all stem from "I am a victim"
I've nurtured it, treasured it, snuggled up in it, in this identity, this "I am a victim"
No wonder I don't progress in healing, don't find therapy. I don't really want to: it would run counter to "I am a victim"
I would cease to be the only me I can remember being.
All my supposed helplessness and weakness, everything I hate about myself, is all because "I am a victim"
I don't want to be "a victim" anymore. I want to be "a person who was victimized"
I want to be a "person" instead of a "victim"
At least that's what I'm telling myself
I want you to see yourself as a person, too, Sligenach. You do deserve more life and healing and freedom. I am so sorry you were victimized. You never deserved that.
Thank you Armee.
What's even worse is I've allowed it to continue, to be passed on: intergenerational victimization.
I've a thought, or am developing a notion about helping and power:
The idea integrated into my biases, prejudices, assumptions
That there are helpers and helpees. That those who have and give also have power over those in need.
It's transactional.
The feeling I have when I need help
The feeling I have when I'm helping
It's about power, control.
It's still a notion, a suspicion, a nascent idea.
But what if the energy of giving, helping, generosity was independent of the little self?
What if it was a continuum of assistance, passed from hand to hand?
:hug:
You've done the very best you can Sligenach.
What if it was a continuum of assistance, passed from hand to hand?
I like thinking of help this way too and remind friends that when they accept or ask for help it makes it also easier for me amd others to ask for help when I/they need it, and most of us like giving help to others. That is transactional I guess, but we all need help and if none of us is comfortable asking or receiving than that cycle of going it alone continues and then when someone needs help they think: "i should be able to handle this alone...look what so and so went through...she didn't need help what's wrong with me" etc.
But definitely there can be a power imbalance.
Thanks Armee. I think it's important to remember that I cannot see and know another's life, not really. I see my version of it.
An interesting concept.
My N dad brought me up with the notion of the "emotional bank account", and basically taught me that everything is a transaction. Which to him, it was. To me, it resulted in me feeling guilty for virtually everything. It took me a long time to start letting that go, and i'm still not quite there. It still baffles me when someone says: "please let me help you, it actually makes me feel happy to be able to do something for you", or something of the sort. I mean, I even felt guilty when helping someone, because I was worried that they would feel like they were in debt to me.
Seeing it as a continuum, is a different way of seeing it, and I quite like the idea.
Glad i could help *wink*
Seriously, though Alter-eg0, it's something I'm working on. The idea of removing the, well, the ego (alter or otherwise) out of the whole thing. Just to let Loving-Kindness flow from hand to hand. Freely.
Ok, so here we are at the precipice. It's now midway between Yule and Xmas
Beautiful concept.
Quote from: sligeanach on December 23, 2021, 07:58:34 PM
The idea of removing the, well, the ego (alter or otherwise) out of the whole thing. Just to let Loving-Kindness flow from hand to hand. Freely.
Quote from: sligeanach on December 23, 2021, 07:58:34 PM
Just to let Loving-Kindness flow from hand to hand. Freely.
I agree with Armee, that is a beautiful concept.
Hope :)
Well... Here we are. Made it through the holidays. I'm working on my vulnerability, trust, collaboration. That sort of thing.
It's so much work to breathe into the fear, terror really, and accept it. Just breathing in and out, acknowledging and living in the fear, and trying to observe there is no danger right now.
It's a lot of work.
Hi Sligeanach,
I'm glad that you made it through the holidays. I think they're always a challenging time of year.
Working on vulnerability, trust and collaboration are massive things, and I wish you the best with doing that. I found your words 'It's so much work to breathe into the fear, terror really, and accept it' to be powerful - as you encapsulated something that I relate to very much. 'Trying to observe there is no danger right now' - I agree with you that it's a lot of work.
Hope :)
Hi Hope, thank you and I wish you the best as well
Chronic problems are so much harder than acute ones. It's easy to be motivated to fix an immediate crisis. But to deliberately stir up problems and work on them when things are tolerable? Not so easy.
Perhaps if my baseline requirements were "satisfactory" instead of "ok"
It's extraordinary how suddenly and completely the terror can strike, threatening to overwhelm.
Years and years I tried to muscle through it, stamp it down, block it out, and it nearly destroyed me.
breathe it, breathe into it, breathe through it, breathe it in, breathe it out
There's two of me: there's "this guy" and then there's "that guy"
Every moment that I'm not actively deciding to be "this guy" every moment, every single moment... I'm "that guy"
I'm pretty sure, at least I hope, that "this guy" is the really real me, and "that guy" is conditioning, early trauma and training.
To reiterate: if I'm not being "this guy" then I'm being "that guy"
"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No. Quicker, easier, more seductive."
Goofus and Gallant
You make a very good point about how every moment we have to choose to be the version of ourselves that is our true self and not trauma self. I'll try to remember this way of thinking about it, to help me.
Smaller than a mustard seed
The crystal shard fit in the palm
Quote from: sligeanach on January 22, 2022, 05:13:24 AM
There's two of me: there's "this guy" and then there's "that guy"
Every moment that I'm not actively deciding to be "this guy" every moment, every single moment... I'm "that guy"
doesn't that just sum things up perfectly.... I guess I am not alone in that.. and either are you :)
Thanks for sharing
Violence is a maladaptive reaction to the fear of pain
I cannot oppose violence, because opposition is violence
Why do I fear pain? What do I fear? It is a mortal terror, I fear the extinguishing of myself.
Why do I fear the extinguishing of myself? I have faith that pain can extinguish myself.
Why do I have faith that pain can extinguish myself?
Has it ever?
I've experienced much pain, and then grief, sorrow, anger and fear.
But never yet has pain extinguished myself.
Quote from: phil72 on January 22, 2022, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: sligeanach on January 22, 2022, 05:13:24 AM
There's two of me: there's "this guy" and then there's "that guy"
Every moment that I'm not actively deciding to be "this guy" every moment, every single moment... I'm "that guy"
doesn't that just sum things up perfectly.... I guess I am not alone in that.. and either are you :)
Thanks for sharing
Hi Phil. it seems to be a basic reaction to violence: A fracturing of the person
On second thought, no it's a perceived fracturing of the self.
What's a person? A persona. The self inhabiting a persona, and only knowing what it is in relation to others; knowing it only exists in relation to others
You can't see your own face
It's not a fracturing of the person, rather a creation of a new person, in reaction to others, and it remains after those others are gone
Misidentified as the self
I cannot draw a sphere. I can draw a circle, I can add shading.
But I have not drawn a sphere. I have drawn an illusion of a sphere.
I can present it to another, and they say, "oh you've drawn s sphere"
Then I am deceived, if I so choose. We agree, "here is a drawing of a sphere."
But it is not a sphere. It is a circle, with shading.
It occurs to me, with a kind of sudden start, that I've not been thinking about being "this guy" my true self, for some hours. Perhaps I've been false all day. But then, at work it's easy to be the work self. The test is when I go home. Can I be myself, my true self, or will I be a fear-driven mimic of someone else?
Will I choose vulnerability? Will I recognize the fear for what it is?
Will I remember that no pain can extinguish myself?
I've to do two related commitments: renounce all violence, and expand my definition of violence.
Neglect is violence, lack of empathy is violence
Interrupting, not listening is violence
Any tiny amount of violence is is on the spectrum of violence, and subtle violence is damaging as overt violence, even increasing the possibility of it, one violence layering onto another
Renunciation of subtle violence, against myself and others, is the only assurance of preventing overt violence
I have copied by hand the entirety of the needs and feelings inventories from cnvc.org
It was difficult to begin, and difficult to continue
I copied it into a notebook, writing back to front, first the needs, then the feelings when needs are met, then the feelings when needs are not met
The result is that my first page begins with
Feeling (this is the header)
Vulnerable
Fragile
Guarded
Helpless
Insecure
and so on
An unexpectedly appropriate place for my first page to begin
Copying, I knew there was a section of needs that I was likely to omit entirely, needs I have inhibition against. Checking my work, I was unsurprised to discover I had not seen the entire section. So I then copied it. As I was writing back-to-front, this most difficult section of needs is now listed first.
I noticed that many if not most of the needs were difficult to write, and the feelings when needs were met were also difficult
But that the feelings when needs were not met were much easier, either comfortable familiar as it were, or arousing a subdued echo of them in me
I think it would be helpful to study these lists, perhaps commit them memory, and possibly copy them again. Maybe onto index cards, to have them on hand as focusing/reminding tools when talking to myself and others
Pushing through contacting psychiatrists, just email and webforms. Cold calling is still too much to ask
And also a regular therapist
Wishing you gentle hugs and support. Finding the right person/people to work with can be very overwhelming at times. Here's hoping you find a good one that you can work with.
Cold calling for a therapist was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Well, I met with a therapist.
Thank you Cactus Flower and Armee for your kindness and sympathy :-)
Didn't hate him, so he's a maybe. Deciding not to latch onto the first one I meet, I've done that before, out of desperation.
Intriguing suggestion from him: walking therapy sessions. I'm open to the idea, not straight away, but as the weather improves, it could have value. He mentioned bilateral... something, I forget what. And allowing for the flight response. Considering how I've paced or lept up with past therapists, walking could be good for me.
Congratulations sligenach
That sounds pretty awesome.
Really intriguing suggestion... I like the sounds of it too... as a fellow pacer :)
Best of luck with your therapist!
Bilateral stimulation? EMDR uses that, it's anything crossing the body in a rhythmic way. I could totally see walking being useful, there's even walking meditation. (like when people walk in those circular labyrinth patterns) Our trauma has affected our bodies and it could be a kind of somatic therapy, a physical thing to use. I hope it's something that helps you.
Hi Sligeanach,
Glad to hear that you met a therapist who gave some suggestions, and that you're considering them. I hope it works out ok. I admire your caution too, I think it's wise to take things at a pace that feels ok for you. I like the sound of the walking meditation as well.
Hope :)
Hi Sligenach
Caution makes sense, given your history. I'm really glad you are reaching out for assistance too.
I will share I hope its ok a bit about my own therapy.
I've been with my T for 3 years and a few months as my personal T, but he also worked with my son for 6 months before that and me and my husband off and on as part of that. Before COVID we met in his office. My progress was pretty slow and I dissociated pretty much the whole time because anytime things became too much - and frankly just walking into an office is too much - there was no way to escape it except to dissociate.
After COVID hit, he left his group practice and started seeing clients on trails (or over zoom if that was preferred). This is when my therapy really took off. Being outside, moving, having distractions, the whole pace...everything about nature or walking therapy...allowed me to sometimes have a choice other than only dissociating.
If I had to tell him something difficult we'd just walk until I could speak. Sometimes I'd make him walk in front of me. Sometimes he'd stop and my reaction just to that would be very telling. Sometimes when I'd dissociate he would instruct me to pick up a clump of dirt and let it fall through my hands or touch the bark of a tree or point out a hawk in the sky. Sometimes it would help ground me and get me back. I've made very difficult disclosures during walking therapy. We've done EMDR after walking to private benches or picnic tables. I would not ever want to go back to therapy in an office.
Many therapists seem afraid of doing therapy outside. If you have someone who is willing and comfortable doing that you also found someone who is not rigid and that seems like a really important trait in a therapist for us with cPTSD.
"Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic." :no:
Hi Sligeanach,
That's an automated response from the system. It's over on OOTF too. I am sorry that it's making you sad! :hug: I don't know if anything can be done about it over here at OOTS, or even if the admins would want to, because outside personal Journals it does have a function. But you could ask Kizzie.
Sorry, I misinterpreted your emoji somehow :doh: You might not be sad, you might be annoyed, angry, disappointed, disgusted or anything else. So just sorry that this automated message had an adverse affect on you. :hug:
Hi Sligeanach. I was happy to see your journal pop back up and would love to read what you had hoped to post.
Hi Armee and Blueberry, I'm not really sure what I'm feeling or what I'm even doing here. I keep opening and closing down the journal on my phone :heythere: :disappear:
:heythere:
It's OK. We're here if you feel like putting words down. I'd ask questions but I think if I were feeling like you are right now, questions would scare me away.
Right, so here's what I've got: I read the previous entries and can tell when I'm raw it's real
It's still hard to enter text in the page when it's all flashy smilies and a tiny box, so I'm just going with what I've done before when I didn't trust a website text box: type in a document and copy paste it in
Onward
The P on the apocalypse IPA reminds me of a turtle, but strangely not when I rotate it to put the turtle on his feet
It reminds me of wunjo for its shape and perthro for the sound it makes
Good to see you back Sligeanach.
Thank you Blueberry
Been listening to Daring Greatly, I'm partway through the second listen. It's funny because usually I don't do audiobooks. I need to read a book or even an ebook to follow the story. But it seems I can listen to this easier than reading it. I'm trying Walker next, at least I plan to
:wave:
I enjoy your way with words.
Funny I have that book in my audio book list but haven't listened yet. And also the Tao of fully feeling but also haven't made it through much of that but you've encouraged me to try again.
Thank you Armee
Perseverance and persistence is everybody's go to but they don't seem to mention how long it takes, nor the many flat times between trying again
Distracted again by the tech from what I was here to do
Deleted the doc half step after writing yesterday and then it was stale before I posted it, so that's not so good useful
Trying the restart
Woke from a nightmare and couldn't sleep and couldn't cry, I write that, in my head is chuckling "Tyler Durden, lol"
But it's not so funny, and now the immediacy is gone
Not saying the realness of it
Perhaps it's never going to be immediate, being that it's via media instead of in media res
Start from where you are
Work with what you have
Do the best you can
"... remove film, stir and recover..."
Thank you Sligeanach,
I haven't read all of your posts yet but the last few I really appreciate. I hear you.
Hello Moondance, I haven't been able to read posts at all, I try from time to time, but thus far it's too hard
I want to be supportive of others here; I've greatly appreciated being heard
I appreciate your poetry, Sligeanach.
Thank you Armee
Never really thought it was poetry, there's this whole idea of poetry that is open mike night and black beret and snapping fingers instead of applause, or else gathered in a circle of folding chairs reading from notebooks
"I have nothing to say
and I am saying it
and that is poetry
as I need it."
John Cage
Your writing is poetic if not poetry. I just reread what you wrote a few down. Remove film stir recover. It made me laugh and is true.
Armee that brings me much warmth and smiling inside and out
30% through Walker's Surviving to Thriving, Audiobook on Libby. Softly reading hope in horror
More beautiful poetic words.
If you're interested, there are some very poetic memoirs or poetry by cptsd survivors. Joy Harjo, Poet Warrior is one...a memoir mostly in poem form. Adrienne Rich's poetry is also interesting...https://poets.org/poem/diving-wreck
Sligeanach, I've read some of your journal. I just want to say that, for some reason, I'm not sure why, I'm on the verge of tears. Now, I'm crying. I think what I'm feeling is empathy for you. I identify so much with the feeling of a lack of safety, and being and feeling alone. I hope this makes sense. I'm sending you warmth and understanding in my thoughts. Safe gentle hugs, if that is OK. :hug:
Thank you Armee and natureluvr
So much
So very much
It's so much harder than it seems, to change my mind
It's not like changing a tire, or changing a channel
Or it's exactly that, but the car doesn't change its own tires, my feet don't change their shoes
And it's not a channel I've subscribed to yet
I know things, and I know things and I know things,
But all the reading is only "if only"
Then I imagine forgiving and loving my self, and the chthonican worms gnash pierce tear
And their hatred is my hatred, and my teeth are their teeth
Ground down now, years of grinding in my sleep
Years of chewing myself down
To nothing
:bighug:
Walker putting words to ways
Lost and wondering
Amygdala hijacking
Left AND Right Brain Dissociating
Anger stymied
Crying stifled
Inner Critic cruelly shaming
Censured
Censored
:hug:
Have you gotten far in Walker's book? I haven't been able to read his for some reason. But a line you wrote caught my attention...left and right brain dissociating. Are you able to say more or even provide a chapter where that's talked about? I can actually feel different parts of my brain dissociating. Sometimes it takes out the left sometimes the right sometimes the back sometimes the top sometimes all.
Quote from: Armee on June 01, 2023, 02:48:23 PM
:hug:
Have you gotten far in Walker's book? I haven't been able to read his for some reason. But a line you wrote caught my attention...left and right brain dissociating. Are you able to say more or even provide a chapter where that's talked about? I can actually feel different parts of my brain dissociating. Sometimes it takes out the left sometimes the right sometimes the back sometimes the top sometimes all.
:hug: Armee
I'm listening to the audio book on Libby
https://www.overdrive.com/media/4500736/complex-ptsd and am at 79%
I tried reading the book twice and couldn't
But I'm able to listen
It's in chapter 6 in the description of the 4F responses
https://www.studocu.com/en-us/document/metropolitan-community-college-nebraska/introduction-to-psychology/summary-complex-ptsd-pete-walker/46867408
https://www.reddit.com/r/DID/comments/84fp3o/left_brain_vs_right_brain_dissociation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I know I'm Dissociating when I'm aware that I can not feel nor sense
I choose myself
Breathing in awareness
Tension
Face, eyes, temples, jaw
Breathing in awareness
Breathing in
Breathing out
Breathing down
Down, down, down
Down to the ground
Solid steady
Stone and bone
now-moment, sensing-self, body-self
slow
slow
only breathing, only sensing
slow
slow
Breathing in
Breathing out
I choose myself
it takes a long time
So much time
My Time
Mine
I take my time
Take Back My Time
Take Back My Self
Mine
All Mine
Only Mine
My Time
My Breath
My Body
My Self
:grouphug:
Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction.
You're welcome, I hope it's helpful