I have written very little about my relationship with my husband, wanting to be honoring and respectful to him. I want to preface this post by saying that there are good things about my husband. Right now I am just done.
My husband is partially retired and at some point will fully retire. When that happens, I will need to get a full time job in order to have health insurance for myself and our kids. Right now he is committing to working 3 months at a time. I told him that I felt like there was a house hanging over my head, held by a string.
Background
I currently only work 11 hours a week. I don't know how I will emotionally and physically handle 32-40 hours.
I am seeing my T 2x/week. When I start full time, that will need to be reduced to 1x/week.
I will need to find a job that will give me the time to have a day to see T. I can't do T then go to work.
My therapist only accepts one insurance, so if the job that I get doesn't have that insurance, I will be paying him out of pocket.
My husband sees what he wants to see and hears what he wants to hear.
> When he fully retires, we can stay on his insurance for a certain amount of time, but the cost is REALLY high. He and I looked at the numbers and agreed that we could not afford to pay that much each month for a length of time. After that discussion, when I bring up the stress of me working FT, he has said he didn't know that I needed to work FT. He's ignoring the reality of the numbers.
> Yesterday, when I asked if he was going to work the next three months (no concrete answer) and again told him how stressful getting a FT job would be for me, he pulled out a list he had made of the reasons that me working full time WOULD BE GOOD FOR ME.
> I said, "You don't have anything on that list about what is it means to work FT with cPTSD."
> I told him that even now with my minimal hours and relatively easy job, there are mornings that I can barely get out of bed, get dressed, I wonder how I am going to manage to put my "work face" on. His response was that you have to work up to it. In other words, he was only referring to the physical challenges of working more with NO inkling of the emotional difficulties.
> Then he asked if this was going to go on forever. (A discussion we have had multiple times.) Me: Yes. cPTSD a chronic condition. It is not going away. There is no finish line.
> Husband: Does that mean you and I won't ever have a life together? Me: We could have a life together now, but you don't want to walk this journey with me. You are waiting for your wife to come back. Another conversation we have had before. He blamed me for not telling him things. (I have told him things and sometimes he responds with kindness, but often his reactions usually lacked any feeling of empathy or he minimized the risk in my telling him what I did tell him. Sometimes he even had the inappropriate response of making a joke. I know that is his discomfort, but still triggering and hurtful to me.) Basically he told me that my thinking that he isn't walking with me in the journey is my fault (I don't tell him things) and is all in my head.
> He also said that it was okay to look at the past, but at some point you needed to put it behind and live life.
:pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:
I had my therapy session right after that interaction so I was able to vent to my T. I'm still really mad. Also really alone. I thought that he had gained at least a little bit of understanding of what I'm dealing with, but it seems like very little.
I am very happy to receive empathy, but please do not offer me advise on how to help him to understand. We have been in marriage therapy together, I've given him articles to read, he's read portions of books, I told him there was an online support group for spouses of people with cPTSD (he rejected that option). He hears what he wants to hear and he sees what he wants to see. He would deny it to his dying day, but to me, it seems that he wants his stepford wife back.
I am so sorry to hear this Notalone - sending loads of empathy and hugs (if they help) your way. I recently went through something like this and know how hard it is.
I don't think there are any particularly good answers in situations like this except choosing a path that honours our self and our CPTSD and what we will/won't or can/can't do, regardless of what others think/believe/feel. Sometimes it just comes down to that.
Sending bucketloads of empathy notalone and :hug: :hug: if they feel helpful. Or if it feels better I'm going to listen to and validate your :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:
Since I also work limited hours per week and also have days when I can hardly get out of bed and put semi-respectable clothing on, I really get that problem of how on earth to manage 32-40 hours a week.
You're dealing with a lot right now, notalone. I understand how hard it is to work FT while CPTSD is raging. :hug: As I mentioned in other threads, I ended up having to leave the workforce "prematurely" because of it, so it makes total sense to me that the prospect of having to increase your hours would be daunting, to say the least., My own symptoms got a lot worse in middle age (in my case, I think menopause was a factor). I became a mere shadow of my former self, as the saying goes—I still haven't recovered my prior level of functionality
I'm not sure whether you're in the US, but if you are, you might want to look into getting insurance through the Affordable Care Act. If your family's income is drastically reduced by your H's retirement, you may qualify for a large subsidy. I know that when I was leaving my own job, COBRA costs (which I think you may be referring to) were unbelievably high, but what I could qualify for via the ACA was surprisingly cheap
This sounds hard, Notalone. I feel empathy for you, and :pissed: on your behalf. I'd also find it really difficult to manage a full-time job.
:grouphug:
Thinking of you this morning :hug:
This sounds so painful and scary, notalone. I hope that your husband can come to understand why this is so difficult for you, and that a situation that will be manageable for you can be worked out.
Sending love and good thoughts :hug:
Kizzie, Blueberry, Saylor, Snowdrop, Bach,
Your replies and empathy mean a great deal to me. I wanted to reply individually, but just don't have it in me to do that right now. Saylor, I did ask an insurance person about affordable care, but in our situation, it is not very affordable.
My husband left on a trip this morning. He left me a card. I do appreciate the effort. His words; however, did not address the issues. I need to process it with T. I'm so mad right now I'm not sure if my interpretation is skewed. He called a couple of times on his drive. I'm so angry; I ignored his calls. The elephant is stepping on my toe and I have no desire to ignore it and talk nice.
I came to a point recently where I just didn't have it in me to let the elephant step on my toe any more, I had to address it with myself (I have to take care of myself) and then my H (you need to be more caring of me).
I talked to him very openly and honestly about what I could/would and could/would not do. It really didn't feel like a choice any more, it felt like I had to listen to myself, to the anger, the sadness and grief, and what that all meant going forward. I drew a line in the sand.
I don't know if this is helpful for you or not, but thought I'd share my recent experience in case you can draw anything from it.
:hug:
Standing with you in your :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: notalone
Blueberry, thank you for standing with me in my anger. That means a lot to me.
Kizzie, thank you for sharing your experience.
Last fall, my therapist told me that my husband had avoidant relationship style. I looked it up online and it completely fits. Basically he has, unknowingly, surrounded himself with walls. My attempts for decades to be emotionally close to him, has only resulted in him putting up another wall. I've given up hope of emotional closeness. I've been trying to figure out how to live together with this reality. I've stopped pursuing him, because it would only result in another wall.
In the past, sometimes when I've told him things, he's "yes, yes." Eventually however, the truth of how he is really feeling leaks out. He also deflects (blames) things on me. When I've talked to him about the elephant, sometimes he seems to understand, but in moments of anger or confrontation, the truth about what he is thinking and feeling comes out. For example, many months ago when we talked about him retiring and needing insurance, he said he'd get a part time job if needed. Now he has a list of why it is good for me to work full time. Sometimes when talking about the elephant, he simply ignores me. He's even walked out of the room while I'm in mid-sentence.
I am trying to figure out how to navigate this relationship. Talking openly and honestly would be my preference, but that really doesn't work in this situation. So how do I take care of myself?
There have been times when my H has expressed genuine care and compassion. He does not know or see that he is avoidant. He wants his vision of what our relationship should look like and does not accept the reality of my brokenness. (Very hurtful.)
Giving him his space, doesn't help when he makes decisions that affect me and our family. I also feel like I can't trust what he says. I do not believe at all that he is intentionally not telling the truth. For example, a couple of months ago we looked at our financial situation. He agreed with me that we couldn't live on the amount of money we would be getting when paying a huge sum for health insurance. He also said that maybe he would work until December. I knew that he was just saying that; I didn't rely on that at all. But since then he's said he didn't think I needed to work (this before the list of why I should work FT), he thought we would be okay. He's ignoring the numbers to have things (retirement) the way he wants them.
I can see why you may not get through Notalone and I'm so sorry you have that to deal with and that it is frustrating, hurtful and triggering. :hug:
I did come face to face with the question of what I would do if I couldn't get through to my H and it put me in the position of having to think about, clarify and decide what I wanted and needed. Did I stay in the relationship for example?
I knew if I stayed I would have to be as honest as I could with myself and with him about what that would mean. I love my H and decided I wanted to stay because we have so much invested in this life and each other, but that I could no longer let him treat me as he had been so it would be platonic, more of a friendship. That would relieve all the frustration and anger of trying to negotiate a marital/intimate relationship and move it to something different.
Fortunately it didn't come to that, we managed to connect but I did tell him about how I felt and how things would need to change in our relationship so it's out there now and clear in my mind and heart and his. It was a relief because I had been feeling trapped and triggered but it was incredibly difficult to face all that.
Now that you have named the elephant in the room (your H is avoidant) it may open a similar door for you re deciding how best to navigate your relationship this means you can have with him. Whatever happens we're here to support you :grouphug:
Again, I don't know if this helps but thought I'd share it in case you can draw something useful from it.
Kizzie, thank you for hearing my frustration, hurt and knowing how triggering all this is. I appreciate you sharing your experience. For now, the answer to the question of "Do I stay?" is yes. As you stated, how do I best navigate this relationship?
Up until now, I've shared little about my marriage on OOTS. I was wanting to honor and respect the relationship. (My T said it's honoring to tell the truth.) I need the support of OOTS, so I will share as much as I need to.
My husband is away on vacation. When we travel together in the car, he talks very little. That is very hurtful to me. (We talked about this when we did do marriage therapy. H. said I should accept him as he is.) I guess I am accepting him as he is and I am not willing to go on long trips with him (as much as possible), because it is too hurtful to me. (boundary)
Today when I was watching the news, I kept hearing my husband's cynical comments in my head. From now on, if we are watching the news or something else and he is being cynical, I will tell him that I don't want to listen to his cynicism and I'll leave the room.
It will be a step by step learning process, trying to know how to be in this relationship and take care of myself. When he is home, we are hardly ever together. He's downstairs, I'm upstairs.
Quote from: notalone on February 21, 2021, 02:56:49 AM
My husband left on a trip this morning. He left me a card. I do appreciate the effort. His words; however, did not address the issues. I need to process it with T. I'm so mad right now I'm not sure if my interpretation is skewed.
I showed my T the card today. The expression on his face told me that I wasn't crazy. He confirmed the message that I read in H's words that I need to get fixed then we can lead a nice life together.
This (marriage) is such a heavy weight.
Hey notalone,
You're making steps forward again :applause: Opening up on OOTS about your marriage and having an honest look at your H and then planning boundaries in your head for when H is back. Step by step. :thumbup: :applause: :cheer: :hug:
I'm so glad you have chosen to talk about your relationship here. Personally I find it a relief to be more honest and open about my H here, and with myself and him. I hope the same holds true for you. :hug:
Blueberry and Kizzie,
Thank you so much for your continued support. :grouphug: The reminder of "step by step" is helpful. I find myself racing inwardly between husband and job issues. It is relieving to be able to talk about my marriage struggles here.
I appreciate you opening and offering this here. My husband is also avoidant and it is helping me to have you and others comment here. I wish I had "answers" for us - for now it is helpful to me to know I am not alone in my pain.
:grouphug:
Kizzie, hugging you back. :grouphug:
RainyDiary, Being married to someone avoidant is really hard. For me the first step was having it named and defined. Unlike your situation, my husband isn't entrenched with his family, there is avoidance there too. I haven't found much information on living with an avoidant spouse. Most sites assume that both of you are working on the marriage. These two sites have been helpful. I've printed this information for myself. I read it often because living with someone avoidant is really crazy making.
https://www.christian-marriage-counselling.com/avoidant-personality-and-marriage.html
I wasn't able to link to the other article. "The Elusive Person: When You Love Someone with a Dismissive-Avoidant Attachment Style," by Sharie Stines.
Notalone, I hope you don't mind but I googled avoidant dismissive relationships and found this - made sense to me:
How to cope
If you have fearful avoidant attachment, or if you're in a relationship with a person who has this attachment style, these tips will help you learn to cope as you begin to better understand and reshape your relationship.
Encourage openness — but don't push it
People with fearful avoidant attachment deeply desire intimacy. They're also immensely terrified by it. You can encourage them to talk about what they're feeling or what fears they sense, but don't be aggressive. This could push them to shut down.
Be reassuring
If your partner or loved one has this attachment style, they ultimately fear you'll leave them or that they'll want to leave. Be comforting and supportive. Seeing you're sticking with them through this time of understanding and change can go a long way to building confidence.
Value yourself
People with insecure attachments often have low self-esteem. This can be troubling in many relationships. Give yourself space to realize some relationships are worth your effort and some aren't.
Little by little, you can find healthier ways to communicate. An intimate, long-term relationship is possible.
Define boundaries
By instinct, people with this type of attachment style often set boundaries, mostly invisible ones. They don't always know where they are or why they happen, but these boundaries help them feel safe in emotional situations.
It can be helpful to others in your life for you to try to vocalize those boundaries. Tell them what makes you feel fear and what triggers your anxiety. This can help you avoid them together.
Understand your instincts
You and your family member, friend, or partner are quite different. You react in different ways to one another. It takes a great deal of self-awareness to recognize your tendencies and actively work to correct them.
If you tend to shut down when emotional conversations begin, a partner can actively push you to be open. If your partner becomes emotionally charged, you can employ ways to promote calmness.
You can hold one another accountable, and you can become better communicators. A therapist may be able to help you begin this process.
I suspect from what you've posted you having CPTSD makes it easier for your H to dismiss your concerns about how he behaves both with you and in his own mind. The thing is you're a person with CPTSD in active recovery which means you are improving aspects like self-worth, boundaries, etc., and that may be making him more fearful.
Kizzie, thank you so much for taking the time to find this information and sharing it. Also, thanks for what you wrote. I will come back at look at it more when I have more brain cells working.
I worked today, then had an online job interview that was over 2 hours long. I'm exhausted. I feel overwhelmed by all the information that she gave me. Is this a job that I could learn and do successfully? The interviewer is going to arrange for me to talk to someone who is doing this job. If I decide to proceed, I will have another interview with someone else. Overwhelming. Will try to take one step at a time but this is all so much. I know people who work(ed) for this company and they all enjoy working there and say it is a supportive environment.
Quote from: Kizzie on March 01, 2021, 04:42:03 PM
I suspect from what you've posted you having CPTSD makes it easier for your H to dismiss your concerns about how he behaves both with you and in his own mind. The thing is you're a person with CPTSD in active recovery which means you are improving aspects like self-worth, boundaries, etc., and that may be making him more fearful.
Kizzie, I appreciate the information you shared and especially find resonance with this idea.
Quote from: notalone on March 03, 2021, 01:11:08 AM
I worked today, then had an online job interview that was over 2 hours long. I'm exhausted. I feel overwhelmed by all the information that she gave me. Is this a job that I could learn and do successfully? The interviewer is going to arrange for me to talk to someone who is doing this job. If I decide to proceed, I will have another interview with someone else. Overwhelming. Will try to take one step at a time but this is all so much. I know people who work(ed) for this company and they all enjoy working there and say it is a supportive environment.
Notalone, best wishes.
Thank you, RainyDiary.
Husband is coming home from vacation tomorrow. Sadly, I'm not looking forward to that. More weight, more stress.
Hi Notalone,
I wanted to send you a supportive hug :hug:
Hope :)
:hug: :hug: to you notalone.
:grouphug:
Hope, Blueberry, Snowdrop,
I will be carrying your hugs and support with me today. :grouphug:
Thinking of you, notalone :hug:
:grouphug:
This thread in particular has been on my mind and I wanted to share that you are not the only one navigating at this moment. I am here too.
Bach, Kizzie, RainyDiary, Blueberry, Snowdrop, Hope; I am trying to keep from drowning and your support and care means a great deal.
Husband is home. My daughter and I were in the room with him. After telling about his vacation, he asked, "What's been happening here?" I told him that I interviewed for a job. He asked what the job was and I described it briefly. That's it. No questions. No comments. I really resent him for putting me in this position.
The stress that I feel is through the roof right now. I am trying to take one step at a time, but the enormity of getting a job, working 40+ hours a week, and learning a job that according to the interviewer will take 6-12 months to feel like I know what I'm doing is TOO MUCH. My therapy will be reduced to 1x/week (now I see him 2x/week). The last two weeks I have only been able to talk about job and marriage. I can't imagine dealing with trauma until I feel somewhat secure in new position. And there is so much more that adds stress and fear to getting a job. It will affect so many areas of my life. I am so angry at my husband for refusing to accept my struggles with cPTSD and DID and to put all this on me.
Yesterday, my T asked me what I wanted to say to my husband. I want to say some words that I normally do not use. More than that, I want to say, "Don't tell me you care about me when you refuse to accept what I experience and what it is like for me to live with my trauma and the damage that was done to me. Don't tell me, 'I'm here.' Not divorcing me and being a body in the house is not being here. You refuse to walk this journey with me. And DO NOT say that it's because I don't tell you things." A lot more I could say. Some of it has been said to husband. He only ignores it or deflects it onto me.
Regarding the job, I am waiting to receive a call from someone who is in the same position. I want to hear how the job is for her. Also, will tell her that when interviewer described job, it seemed really overwhelming. I'll ask her what the training and learning the job was like for her. I did tell interviewer that I would let her know today if I want to proceed. If so, I will have one more interview with someone.
Back to marriage------I know I'm jumping all over, but that is where my mind is, so decided to write without editing. My husband and I started with current therapist in marriage therapy. Husband stopped with covid, not wanting to do online sessions. A few weeks ago H mentioned going back. (He has not contacted therapist.) Yesterday, T told me that he thought marriage therapy would be a waste of time. (He did say that he has worked with clients who were avoidant and learned to be aware and present.) From my perspective, when we do marriage therapy, H wants T to tell him what he can do so that I can be fixed. For awhile he'll make attempts at external change, eg. asking me how I am, but then when he and I express our conflict, the truth comes out. What he really wants is for me to be fixed and to have his Stepford wife back. Many times I have told him that cPTSD is a chronic condition. I will always have it. There is no finish line. He doesn't want that to be true so he just doesn't accept or believe or maybe even hear that.
**************************************************************************
Wow. As I was writing this, H came into the room and gave me a kiss. He said, "smile." I told him that I didn't feel like smiling, I had an enormous amount of stress on me. Won't write details of conversation, but he said if it would take stress off me, he would commit to working until the end of this year (dependent upon his boss' okay). Not sure why he was able to hear this time and to act in a helpful way. My body can totally feel the difference---before I couldn't eat breakfast, chest tight, etc. Regarding the job, the interviewer did mention that she wanted someone for weekends. I will find out about that because I do think it would be good to be established in this company. Church is important to me though, so not sure that will work.
I will keep you updated. Thank you so much for listening and supporting. It means so much.
I don't feel I have words, Notalone, but I hear you, and I'm sending you support and care. :grouphug:
:hug: and :grouphug: Notalone
:bighug: :grouphug: to you notalone
I have no words. My mind is jumping all over the place atm. I come onto the computer to do some work and then I read on OOTS instead. Can hardly string two words together for myself far less anybody else. So just :hug: :hug: plus :umbrella: to ward off the bad stuff.
Snowdrop, Kizzie, Blueberry, :grouphug: Knowing you're there and care makes a difference. :bighug:
I'm going to decline the part-time job, not because of the job, but to not have the stress of learning a new job. I'll keep the job I have now. These last two weeks have been *. It will take time for my feelings to calm down and to feel secure that I'm okay work-wise for the rest of the year.
For want of a better word, happy to be there for you as you are for me and plenty others on here :hug:
I was/am really impressed at your ability to apply for a new job, get it, consider taking it and all that entails e.g. way less therapy and way, way less time for healing work in between T appointments! I would not have managed, I know that. I would have stood beside you in your new job, but equally I'm standing with you in your decision to not take on that job and to just keep to your present job.
:thumbup: :thumbup: for telling H you didn't feel like smiling. You know, it felt like 10 steps back for you, maybe it even was. But now you're really going forwards again! Yay for you! :cheer:
Thank you, Blueberry. Your support and encouragement has been a life-line.
My husband has told me to smile before. That is his avoidance. He can't deal with emotions so he wants me to put on a pretty face. No way!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: and :grouphug:
Very grateful for your support, Kizzie.
Notalone, I just read the updates you shared here. I appreciate you sharing because it helps me to have examples of what I could say and do.
My H did something that upset me. It wasn't a major thing, but in the pattern of not sharing important information. A couple of days ago I told him that I was angry that he didn't tell me. He said, "I hope you're not angry about that. I hope you're not angry about that." I don't think that I replied, after all, he shut the door on the conversation. Tonight, he made a joke in reference to that conversation. Maybe, if a conflict has been talked about and repaired, maybe it can be appropriate for the couple to joke about it. In this case, there was no listening, no healing, no repair. So to joke about it--not okay.
I can't live alone with these destructive patterns anymore, so I will share here as needed. It's crazy-making.
Notalone, Recently I heard someone say that they want to share their inside self. I loved that expression and idea because many of us (all of us?) hide aspects of ourselves for a variety of reasons. I appreciate you sharing this.
Rainy Diary, I have a deep need to be heard and to be known (the inside self). I'm grateful for those in my life, including people on OOTS, who are willing and able to do that.
I understand how each act of not being heard or being dismissed "adds to the pot" so to speak. It became really hard for me to ignore or let those incidences slide; my inside self would not let that happen any more.
Talking about H and our relationship at all and then here was hard at first. I felt quite guilty and afraid that I was admitting yet another area in my life that was not going well, but mostly now I feel relief.
Being genuinely heard and received with care is something we all need and deserve so here to listen and support you :grouphug:
Thanks, Kizzie. I have some guilt about talking about H because I feel like I'm betraying him. The pain and confusion is too much for me though, so I'm grateful to be heard here.
:grouphug: