Out of the Storm

Treatment & Self-Help => Self-Help & Recovery => Recovery Journals => Topic started by: Armadillo on May 07, 2021, 05:42:10 PM

Title: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 07, 2021, 05:42:10 PM
Ok...I'm not done telling my story and getting it out of me and on "paper" but I wanted to start a recovery journal that won't be so trigger filled where I can share progress and get support. This one should more or less be a safe zone.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on May 07, 2021, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on May 07, 2021, 05:42:10 PM
but I wanted to start a recovery journal that won't be so trigger filled where I can share progress and get support.

:thumbup: Sounds like a good idea! Good luck. Sharing progress and getting support are important things in recovery ime.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 07, 2021, 11:47:43 PM
Heh I've been trying to write a post all day and keep getting distracted by other tasks and losing my progress.

I wanted to share that I had an interesting therapy session last night and didn't really dissociate much during or after!  I told my T I wanted to work on feeling emotions but I didn't really know how we could do that (we've been trying different things off and on for a long time) .

One of my challenges is that it seems a lot of parts of my brain don't really talk to each other. So like I can't visualize, my memories are essentially just a list of facts and a physical sensation of where I am in space, and that's about it. I can't do any exercise that requires visualizing like a safe space or anything like that.

But my T was pretty on his game last night and found a way for me to physically sense happiness and safety through imagining my son hugging me and that gave me a physical sensation to work with.

Then he just kind of used the concepts of somatic experiencing for me to lightly touch into a sad and fearful sensation and then to go back to imagining my son hugging me. We essentially did that for an hour. And the more we did it the closer I got to being able to feel a little sadness. Whoot!

It's so slow! But we made lots of mistakes going fast and that slows things down in the end.

It's hard to believe I've known him for 3 yrs, first working with him with my son and then me for the past 2.5 yrs and I can still barely make eye contact.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 08, 2021, 12:33:16 AM
Sounds like you're making some great progress. Healing may be slow, yes, but it isn't a race, it's a journey!

It's easy to over look this, but you and your T found a new method that works for you. It even had notable results in one session. I wouldn't call that slow at all! That is a massive accomplishment. Congratulations!  :cheer:

Quote from: Armadillo
It's hard to believe I've known him for 3 yrs, first working with him with my son and then me for the past 2.5 yrs and I can still barely make eye contact.

That's not hard for me to believe at all.  :)  I'm sure you will be able to make eye contact in time, as you continue to progress on your healing journey. I expect that you're excited, and impatient. That's totally understandable, but as you said, it's a long term game, and important to move at a proper pace. That's also a big realization. You're doing great! Keep it up! :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: woodsgnome on May 08, 2021, 02:01:30 AM
Often what we call 'small' steps can in fact be more like leaps. Regardless of what we label them -- it's even more wonderful if we don't notice them immediately. On several issues, that's how it's worked for me.

When I look back it's pleasantly surprising that I actually accessed feelings I didn't think I'd ever encounter. Positive thoughts were especially hard to come by. Since finally attaining this at least a few times, one thing that's stuck is that it's not always entirely hopeless.

I hope you'll continue the progress you've noticed. It might seem slow, but maybe that's a good thing?

So I'll echo Jazzy's voice in lauding what looks to be solid progress for you.  :) May it continue on the upswing.



Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on May 08, 2021, 01:53:25 PM
Armadillo, this sounds like significant movement. The journey is painfully slow, but I also have found that going too fast can be harmful. There are many times that I can't make eye contact with my T. I understand that and I'm sure he does too.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on May 08, 2021, 02:32:31 PM
Congrats on feeling sadness! It's a big step, even if it feels like a little one at times. I'm proud of you!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: CactusFlower on May 08, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Sounds like progress, congrats! it's not the size of the achievement, it's that you did it. Great job!  More will come with time. You'll get there. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on May 08, 2021, 07:23:27 PM
as difficult as it may be to begin connecting networks in our brains, it does sound like progress to me, too.  i've been working on this reconnection process for over 5 years, and it really is slow going.  when i first began, a therapist gave me exercises to do, but also told me that having to make those connections is a difficult process.  he said it's harder to make these connections from scratch than rebuilding or strengthening ones that were already there, but to stick with it.  i'm pleased to say it has been working.

i agree that going to fast can end up taking more time - when i do recovery work now, in little chunks, sometimes little pieces, i can proceed more easily, hit more goals , and continue progressing, rather than getting overwhelmed and having to take time to recover before beginning again.  i think you're on the right track, and i'm right there with you.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on May 09, 2021, 08:38:20 PM
Armadillo, I agree with everybody else on here that it sounds as if you're making a lot of progress rn.  :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 11, 2021, 12:00:19 AM
Thank you everyone for your support!

I wanted to share how PROUD I am of myself!

Punchline:
Yesterday was Mother's Day where I am. I sent my mom a very very bland card and bland text. I did not buy a gift I did not go visit her I did not call or take the kids to see her.

Now here's the part that I am proud of: I did not question myself. I did not feel guilty. I had no problem defending myself to my husband or other family who asked about what I was doing for my mom. This is HUGE for me. So huge. I can't even believe I've gotten to this point.

Background
My mom lives alone. She has no friends although she now basks in her neighbors fawning on her. She has a history of self harm but as she's older now she has subbed in self neglect as her form of self harm. I'm the only person here to help her though again her neighbors are fawning on her so that's a relief.

She has multiple mental health issues and is very difficult and the ways in which she is difficult is very very triggering to me. In fact I can't be in her presence without feeling trapped. My brain breaks in some substantial ways. I can't be present with my family.

But I haven't been able to break away and protect myself. I have had nothing but guilt and self hatred and shame. I can't stop thinking "I'm not trying hard enough" or "I'm bad and wrong" or "I'm crazy" or "I need to try something different."

But no matter what I tried I couldn't make it work. I couldn't help her without harming myself. I've worked on this in therapy for 2.5 yrs and drove my therapist crazy for not being able to get past this self hatred and inability to just accept things as they are.

I'll write more about this another time. But in February we tried something different that had an unexpected result and coupled with a massive lie-fest and manipulation-fest by my mom at the same time, something just clicked.

Mother's Day was a real test for me. And now I know, I am ok. I am making the right decision. I can't fix her. And for now, I am not ok enough to be able to be around her. And my husband (who comes from a culture with very strong family obligations) also has my back on this and doesnt think I am bad or a terrible person. 

I can't even believe I've finally gotten to this point. Phew. What a relief. I'm a totally different person the past couple months because of this break through.




Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: woodsgnome on May 11, 2021, 12:17:18 AM
 :applause: You followed your heart, walked past any diversionary self-guilt about it, and realized that you're ok now, and always were. Thanks for sharing this inspiring step towards unlocking a bit of the pain you've held inside for so long.  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 11, 2021, 12:32:47 AM
Quote from: ArmadilloI did not question myself. I did not feel guilty. I had no problem defending myself to my husband or other family who asked about what I was doing for my mom.
That's phenomenal!  :cheer:

(https://i.postimg.cc/K4HQMrXC/great-Job250.png) (https://postimg.cc/K4HQMrXC)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on May 11, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on May 11, 2021, 12:00:19 AM
Mother's Day was a real test for me. And now I know, I am ok. I am making the right decision. I can't fix her. And for now, I am not ok enough to be able to be around her. And my husband (who comes from a culture with very strong family obligations) also has my back on this and doesnt think I am bad or a terrible person. 

I can't even believe I've finally gotten to this point. Phew. What a relief. I'm a totally different person the past couple months because of this break through.
That's wonderful! Realizing when you can/can't help someone is huge!  :applause: You're doing a great job!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on May 11, 2021, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on May 11, 2021, 12:00:19 AM
Now here's the part that I am proud of: I did not question myself. I did not feel guilty. I had no problem defending myself to my husband or other family who asked about what I was doing for my mom. This is HUGE for me. So huge. I can't even believe I've gotten to this point.

:fireworks:                                   :fireworks:                                     :fireworks:

I'm proud of you too. Yes, it is huge!!

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 12, 2021, 11:56:08 PM
When you realize how different you are from other people...how do you balance trying to fix it, accept it, or grieving it? Is there an order?

My memories are so impoverished. There's only spatial orientation. And sometimes some facts about what happened or what was said. Sometimes intrusive sensations and visual, sound, or smell hallucinations or flashbacks. I don't even know which they are.

Once a few months ago my mom was in the hospital and I was at her home sifting through old photos. I found several of me as a teenager in the home we lived in for about 4 years when I was 14-18yrs old. I did not know where the pictures were taken. I did not recognize my home. I recognized where I was in other photos even as a young kid in relatives house I rarely visited.

Sometimes my brain gets so confused I can't find my way to a freeway entrance I've used for 22 years.

Sometimes I can't make my hands form easy shapes without thinking very very hard and physically manipulating my fingers into the shape (like for kundalini yoga)

I have no visual memory. I don't know what my bedroom looked like as a teenager though I can feel the shape. I can't imagine a calm scene or my kids faces.

When I look at the world I don't log visual information other than physically sensing where things are. I see exactly what is there but nothing more.... there's no integration. My son talks about how he looks at the world and sees patterns. I can run errands in the same town for 4 years, every week, and still not understand how the four main streets and shops fit together and get so turned around. Friends arrange paragraphs of text in their heads or rotate objects in their minds or imagine a painting or hear music.

I remember being in high school geometry. I had spent hours trying to make sense of a problem but just couldn't. I gave up, thinking there was something wrong with the book. When we went over the problem in class, no one else had any problem with it. Cause it turns out when they looked at the problem they saw a shape and they could then calculate the angles. I just saw a mess of lines.

I also feel so guilty because I have a reputation for being really smart at work and in personal relationships, but inside I struggle so hard and I don't understand how to reconcile how I experience the world with how people experience me. And then I just feel so much like an imposter. One day they will figure out what I've been trying to say. My brain doesn't work right. I'm not smart. I have a certain set of skills but even those are very unreliable. When I space out, freeze, disappear, don't make sense people interpret it as proof that I am smart and so busy and work so hard so late. I'm only so busy because I can hardly function most days. It takes me 5 hours to do something that should take 20 minutes. 

I want to understand it. I want to figure out exactly which cells are going awry, which parts of my brain aren't exchanging information so I can figure out how i can fix it.

Then I feel guilty because I should just be accepting it, just like if I were blind. Or had lost a limb. It's just the way things are. But maybe I can fix it.

I bet the tapping thing that Eidolon posted about would help me grieve instead of trying to figure everything out...but I somehow don't have the motivation to learn how to do it, I'd rather read neuroscience textbooks for an answer on how to fix it.  :whistling:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on May 13, 2021, 03:47:21 AM
hey, armadillo, 

congrats on your mother's day decisions.  well done!   :thumbup:

unfortunately, i don't know if we can fix all of it, but that doesn't mean we don't keep trying until we come to some breakthrough about it.  i have no doubt that as you keep moving forward, you'll figure it out.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 14, 2021, 12:03:15 AM
Wow Armadillo, this is some heavy stuff here! Primarily, I hear you that this is difficult, and you are struggling with it. I really relate to what you write about here, especially regarding shapes, images, memory and high school geometry. *shudders*

You said "I'm not smart", but I think you are! You also said you have a reputation for being smart, so maybe you are, but your trauma is just interfering with that. I expect that is true for all of us, to some degree.

Because you asked some questions, I'll share my thoughts on them. Of course, they are just my thoughts, and you are free to disagree or disregard them. I apologize in advance if your questions were meant to be hypothetical (I'm a very literal person!).

QuoteWhen you realize how different you are from other people...how do you balance trying to fix it, accept it, or grieving it? Is there an order?
How do you balance it? Well, I believe that balance is the key to most things in life... so that's "the million dollar question", so to speak. I can't really answer it, unfortunately. I expect everyone has to find their own balance as well, so even if I had the perfect answer for me, it may not work for anyone else.

Is there an order? Well, there is an order that works well for me, but again, different people process things in different ways. I think you said you worked in research? So, maybe this can be a little research project, for you to find the order that works best for you... although, if you don't like your job, that may be a bad approach for you to try.  I'm going to use the term "it" in the following paragraph to refer to "how different you are from other people", but the same approach can be used for anything.

For me, it is best for me to accept things are how they are. This doesn't mean giving up, or not changing them in the future, though. It just means recognizing and understanding the current state of reality. After I accept how things are, then I look in to what effect it has. Then I grieve or otherwise emotionally process it and the effects of it (some big things I need to process, then look at effects, then process effects). If it is a thing that can be changed (even if doesn't seem like it. E.g. "I can never change because I can't imagine it" is different than "My friend can never change because they're no longer in this world.") and it, or the effects of it, are not acceptable to (healthy for) me, then I try to change it in time.

I hope that may be somewhat helpful for you, but if not, that's okay too. Either way, I'm sorry to hear that things are so difficult. What you said about the freeway entrance sounds like it is having a big impact on you. It's good that you are acknowledging that, and looking to improve it! Good job. :)

QuoteI bet the tapping thing that Eidolon posted about would help me grieve instead of trying to figure everything out...but I somehow don't have the motivation to learn how to do it, I'd rather read neuroscience textbooks for an answer on how to fix it.

I totally get this! Based on my own experiences, I have a solid idea on why this is, too. I don't want to share it until it is better developed though. I'm also not sure your journal is the best place, even if it may connect well with you as a logical oriented person. I will post it somewhere at some point (hopefully in the near future) though, and provide you a link, if you would like.

For now, if you are open to  a suggestion, I would say to listen to your mind. If you want to try tapping (sounds like you do a bit), then try tapping. If you want to read a neuroscience textbook, then do that! Ultimately, I think it best to do both, if possible, although one may work out better than the other for you right now.

I realize this is (yet another) long message with advice in it, which I'm trying to do less of... but I hope it is helpful for you. If not, please let me know.

Above all, I hope you're feeling better soon. I think you're doing a great job! Keep up the good work! :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 14, 2021, 12:14:06 AM
Thank you for your long reply and your advice. I DID ask for it and am literal, too. So thank you! And you made me smile, too. I'll love to hear your thoughts on the part about not having motivation to learn tapping when you are ready to share it. :) Thank you!

I do struggle a lot with the "I'm stupid" thought so much that this is the single most upsetting thing that comes up in therapy and I will deal with things that on the surface are so so much more difficult, apparently to avoid this one. Not intentionally it's just I end up so dissociated we can't get to it. Weird. Its actually the topic that made my therapist realize a year into the relationship that we are dealing with trauma. Thank goodness because backing off of CBT and working on other therapy approaches has been the best thing for me.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on May 14, 2021, 06:03:42 PM
i hear you about using different approaches in therapy for trauma - lots of people have found, me included, that cbt just doesn't get to the heart of the problem.  just like the 12-step programs are meant for addictions, they don't address the trauma behind the addiction.  i'm so glad your t realized you have trauma issues and changed the course of your therapy. 

that 'stupid' thing is so ugly.  i mean, it's obvious to me you're not stupid - you write coherently, understand what others write, ask pertinent questions and give from your heart in just the right way to the rest of us.  i understand, tho, how some of those core messages can get stuck within our minds because they've been placed there by others when we were too young to know otherwise.  recognizing it, tho, seems to me to be a huge step in being able to go after it and get it settled for yourself.  for that i give you all kinds of credit.

sending love and a hug full of perseverance and acceptance. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 15, 2021, 01:22:51 AM
I completely agree with everything snamagic has said! I couldn't have said it better myself. In my experience, healing from trauma requires a different approach than traditional therapy, and I believe that it is crucial for us to get that "different approach" for us to be able to truly heal. I don't mean to say anything negative about more traditional therapy at all. It is an excellent tool, and very helpful for many things, it's just that trauma is a bit different than non-trauma.

It's so great that you've begun to recognize the importance of this "I'm stupid" thought. I believe that is a solid foundation for further work. (I'm assuming you don't want to keep thinking you're stupid. :)) Great job on that!  :cheer:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 15, 2021, 02:04:10 AM
Armadillo, I see you mentioned your progress in therapy in the 1,2,3 thread, and wrote about it here in your journal as well, so I want to make sure it is adequately covered. I'm concerned my brief reply before is not what you were hoping for.

It's already bed time for me, so I can't write out much, but it's important to "take a minute". I think you've done a really good job in identifying the big ticket items for yourself. I also think it's good to give yourself time to breathe / a break before they become overwhelming. It makes sense that you would deal with things that seem more difficult to others, to avoid the things that are more impactful to you. I think you're doing such a great job overall, and you're making notable progress!

I don't see anything about the worksheets here, but I wish you all the best with them, and I hope they help.

Hopefully I didn't miss anything important, sorry if I did! :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 15, 2021, 07:12:02 AM
Thank you Sanmagic and Jazzy. Your kind words mean so much and I very much appreciate your reminders to go a bit slow to not overwhelm.

I actually do want to keep thinking I'm stupid. But I also want to be healthy and know that's not a healthy thought. But more than that I want other people to think I'm stupid because then when they see how I am they won't think I lied.

You know it's just looking back I was just traumatized and dissociated and terrified through school and I just couldn't concentrate or even stay awake. I remember sleeping intentionally through class because it was too stressful to stay awake and worry everytime the classroom door opened or an announcement came over the loud speaker that it was going to be bad news for me. I truly was terrified of that. But my teachers didn't see this. I wasn't acting out.

And then I couldn't sleep at night because i was listening for my mom to not be ok. So how could i really function?

And then all this dissociation that has carried forward that causes my brain to not work right, even now that the danger is past. So I know I am smart in a way to succeed despite all this difficulty but then I also know my brain doesn't work right and other people don't see that. They don't know I'm just blank in here most of the time.

Writing is pretty easy I can write while I'm dissociated. But being put on the spot to speak is not ok. And writing takes me a long long time.

Eh I'm dissociating and rambling time to call it quits.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on May 15, 2021, 03:55:02 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on May 15, 2021, 07:12:02 AM

I actually do want to keep thinking I'm stupid. But I also want to be healthy and know that's not a healthy thought. But more than that I want other people to think I'm stupid because then when they see how I am they won't think I lied.

You know it's just looking back I was just traumatized and dissociated and terrified through school and I just couldn't concentrate or even stay awake. I remember sleeping intentionally through class because it was too stressful to stay awake and worry everytime the classroom door opened or an announcement came over the loud speaker that it was going to be bad news for me. I truly was terrified of that. But my teachers didn't see this. I wasn't acting out.

And then I couldn't sleep at night because i was listening for my mom to not be ok. So how could i really function?

And then all this dissociation that has carried forward that causes my brain to not work right, even now that the danger is past. So I know I am smart in a way to succeed despite all this difficulty but then I also know my brain doesn't work right and other people don't see that. They don't know I'm just blank in here most of the time.

Writing is pretty easy I can write while I'm dissociated. But being put on the spot to speak is not ok. And writing takes me a long long time.

Eh I'm dissociating and rambling time to call it quits.
:hug:
You are smart and talented. Maybe the dissociation is there because you're not quite ready to feel yet- things may not seem safe and that's not stupidity, that's a survival mechanism from childhood. Maybe the real fear is knowing you're smart and not living up to perfectionist expectations? It seems like you're dealing with the inner critic as a way to protect yourself. I could be wrong, though. Blessings.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 16, 2021, 01:10:49 AM
Definitely protection you're absolutely right. And also just incongruency between how I experience myself, always being told I was stupid and lazy or made to feel that way, or being told I  wasnt living up to my potential (without those teachers knowing how hard I was working just to stay above water), and then once I got out of that negative environment and all the sudden having my brain work better and people thinking I was smart out of the blue except I didnt know my brain was working better I was just confused why I was doing well in school and work and I just thought I was tricking people somehow and that's why they thought i was smart? I'm only figuring this stuff out over the past few months so what i understand hasn't really trickled deep into my brain.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on May 16, 2021, 04:30:35 AM
hey, armadillo,

i think you hit on a difficult truth here, that you've only been seeing this issue for a few months and haven't had time to process it yet.  profound, and maybe a core issue to boot - which can always take more time.  please, be patient with yourself, ok? 

when i was very sick in mexico, my hub was doing everything for me, and i found myself enjoying not having to live up to the expectations of doing for others, being 'productive', taking care of everyone, etc.  those were all messages i'd received since i was little, and lived up to them until they broke me.  it was difficult to stop living up to them, even when i really wasn't capable of carrying that weight around.

one day i realized that if i got well, i was afraid people would expect everything from me again, and that was overwhelming until i figured out i could put different boundaries out now - i was nearly 60, so was coming to that quite late in my life.  i also decided having to wait hand and foot on an invalid wife was not what my hub signed up for.  these 2 realizations helped me choose to begin treating those old messages differently, and i began recovery in earnest.

what i'm trying to say is that we all come at those old messages, the damage of their trauma on our minds/brains, and find the energy needed to tackle it all in our own time at our own pace.  it's different for everyone, because no 2 people had the exact same experience, emotions, perspective or spirit.  that you are recognizing such tremendous amounts of neg. crapola which has run your life is a giant step in a healing direction.  i think you're doing really well, but i agree with eidolon that you may be dealing with a survival strategy, a protective measure.  when you're feeling strong and sure enough about your self, it may not be needed anymore.

sending love and a hug filled with time and patience.   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on May 16, 2021, 09:53:38 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on May 16, 2021, 01:10:49 AM
Definitely protection you're absolutely right. And also just incongruency between how I experience myself, always being told I was stupid and lazy or made to feel that way, or being told I  wasnt living up to my potential (without those teachers knowing how hard I was working just to stay above water), and then once I got out of that negative environment and all the sudden having my brain work better and people thinking I was smart out of the blue except I didnt know my brain was working better I was just confused why I was doing well in school and work and I just thought I was tricking people somehow and that's why they thought i was smart? I'm only figuring this stuff out over the past few months so what i understand hasn't really trickled deep into my brain.

Be gentle with yourself in your recovery, Armadillo. It may have been their expectations keeping you hyper-vigilant and distrustful of yourself regarding your abilities. Being given conflicting beliefs (on the one hand, being told you're lazy and on the other that you're not living up to your full potential) would be hard for anyone to cope with. Maybe try rewarding yourself when you do things that make you proud or feel better? I still think it's a protective measure, but, just in case.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 18, 2021, 12:12:49 AM
I haven't wanted to let myself feel hurt and anger about how my mom's behaviors have harmed me past and present. I've resisted so hard because acknowledging those would make it impossible to continue to take care of her.  But slowly over the past few years it's seeped in anyway and I'm now at that point where I can't continue in a relationship with her. And I am ok with that now. I am ok with the potential consequences. I feel minimal guilt and shame...a little of course. Well I guess I need to clarify for myself, it isn't that I've felt the hurt and anger yet, it's more that I have learned to be mindful and notice my symptoms and what has changed is I am now SEEING the present day impacts her behaviors have on me, including really intense dissociation and an inability to really be present for my own family.

Last week I did a decision making worksheet to see if I should try to slightly increase contact now that my symptoms are a bit better after a few months of very minimal contact. And the score came out +160 versus -120 in favor of not increasing contact at all, even just responding to text messages with more than 2 word replies like "all good."

So I no longer have a need to protect myself from feeling those emotions because the consequence i was trying to protect against already occurred. I know I can't take care of her. I can't be in a relationship because she causes harm to me and my family.

I haven't really started feeling the emotions yet but my brain seems to be loosening a little letting a couple small memories surface of a positive nature...

I got a memory of a sheep dog stuffed animal I used to have. I had a pleasant taste memory (eating apricot jam...same jam I've been eating for months, lol).

And most remarkable...I drive through the town my grandparents used to live in about once every couple months. For the past 20 years I have been trying to remember where they lived and couldn't remember. Yesterday I drove through town and wasn't even thinking about it and it was clear as day to me which freeway exit to take, and the name of their street. I didn't have time to see if I could find the house but I plan on going back soon to try to find it.

I'm really excited by the prospect of having memories return but of course a little anxious too. But I really want my brain to reconnect parts that are hidden from me and mostly I'm just feeling a lot of relief that I think I can get there.

I also meditated this weekend and had a mental image after 5 minutes,  which is exciting. I know meditation is NOT about striving to have certain experiences but screw that. I want to be able to visualize things. I hope meditation can help my brain gain that ability.  I would like to close my eyes and imagine a beautiful scene or see my kids faces.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 19, 2021, 12:28:56 AM
Wow, there is so much progress here! That's phenomenal. Excellent work Armadillo!  :cheer:

I've had a lot of similar experiences with school and home life, but I'm not sure it would help much to talk about it here and now. It sounds like you're doing good work processing all of that on your own. :)

I agree with the others, this is big stuff: fundamental topics that have had a lifetime of impact on you. Survival mechanisms may not always be the best, but they are important, and they're often better than the alternative. Even when it is safe because "the alternative" is gone, we need time to relearn how to behave in a better way.

I understand your guilt about your mother. It is important for you to look after yourself though, and when you're further along your healing journey, you may find that your score will change, and you may be able to have more contact with your mother while remaining in a healthy place.

I'm very encouraged to read that your mind is working better with other things (identifying the town) with all the work you've put in to improve your mental health. I've noticed that in myself as well, and it's really great. This may be a bit selfish, but it's also nice to see a similar result in another person. This helps confirms a lot of my theories about how the mind works, and how to help improve myself further.

Sounds like you're feeling a lot, which is great... and I also see that you're processing and understanding your feelings as well, which is great too!  :cheer: Keep up the good work, but also keep in mind that like the others said, part of "the good work" is to take things at a healthy pace.

Here's a little story you might find interesting about meditation:

In the specific form of martial arts I used to study (and still very much appreciate, just haven't been in a place to study it for many years), there are no grand masters left alive. The reason there are no grand masters any more is because part of the initiation is to boil a well of water with the power of your mind, through meditation, and no one has been able to do this.

Now, I expect many people won't believe anyone can do that, I'm not even sure I do myself.... but the point is that meditation can certainly be used with intent (to have certain experiences or otherwise), even though it is overwhelmingly used only to relax and calm ourselves in the western world.

Great job holding a mental image! That's a massive accomplishment!  :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 19, 2021, 11:57:15 PM
Thanks Jazzy! For understanding and relating so well and for sharing the meditation lesson with me  that makes me feel better about striving.

****

I'm starting to get a little back to a positive spot after being triggered monday. It's amazing how a little thing like that can derail you for a couple days or more. All the shame and negative thoughts and self hatred come back...interesting way to protect myself, reminding myself how awful I am.

When I was thinking about telling my husband about being triggered I was really chastising myself and thinking how I couldn't tell him because so what? It's no big deal. But then I kind of heard myself in a small voice think "I wanted to go home and I couldn't get home." And that softened things a little for me. I didn't tell him but it still helped a bit. And even though I don't have a strong feeling of any particular incident there I remembered a handful of times that would have been an issue.

And even though I do feel a lot of shame i also can remember that I need to feel these things (scared, sad, angry) so I can also feel the joy and be present too which is what I most want. So when I get triggered, even if I feel stupid, I need to let the feelings come through so I can have those positive things I want.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on May 20, 2021, 12:07:43 AM
Whenever you feel awful, remember where the original thought came from. You're an incredibly compassionate person! If you were triggered, you were triggered. It's sort of like comparing traumas- whatever triggered you was significant enough to begin with, so it's best not to hide it. Great job on letting yourself feel things, Armadillo, and you're absolutely right about feeling both the negatives and positives. :) proud of you.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 20, 2021, 01:16:58 AM
 :yeahthat: :yourock:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: HomerJ on May 20, 2021, 04:24:58 PM
Well done on the recent progress! The decision-making worksheet is a great idea.

I want to try and be active in other people's threads but I might say the wrong thing

Whenever I am doing well and have a couple of bad days then the shame starts to creep back in I try to make fun of it. 'Oh what a coincidence, how convenient is it for your narrative that I am the worst' then I exaggerate it to make it seem ridiculous. It makes me laugh sometimes...you have to get your kicks somehow  :))

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 22, 2021, 11:17:28 PM
I worry about the same thing Homer. But if you say the wrong thing we have a safe place here to learn to speak up about what we need, and don't need. And then we all learn. It's cool.

Thanks for the encouragement H, J, and E.

***
I'm finally feel better after my sneak attack dissociation Monday. Those suck. I don't like not having control. It's like some giant vacuum cleaner in the sky decides to just descend and suck me up...nope. you don't get to feel that, sorry. Sslluuurrrrpppp....

Anyway I often can't tell my husband when these things are happening and I am suffering I guess because the symptoms that it triggers are things like shame and self hatred and needing to hide. Once those subside I'm in a better place to share. So I'll try to do that sometime this week.

It really does piss me off though that I can sit here fully present, knowing everything is absolutely ok, and yet my brain will decide for me it needs to protect me.

Anyway...all better now. We took it pretty easy in therapy yesterday didn't do anything too threatening. I went for a long trail run (walk + jog) with my friend today and that was tiring and felt good, then had a mommy daughter lunch with my 9 yr old. Now we are at the beach with her neighbor friends.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on May 23, 2021, 02:58:53 PM
I'm so sorry you dissociated Monday- but am very proud you managed to get out of it! I hope the beach is fun for you! :hug: Dissociation is the worst.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on May 24, 2021, 05:59:33 PM
Hi Armadillo,
Glad that your therapy session was ok, and that you've had some time with your family today.  The beach sounds very nice, I hope you enjoyed it.

Sending you a supportive hug, re: the dissociation  :hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on May 24, 2021, 06:46:02 PM
Hey Armadillo  :heythere:   OMG the beach sounds wonderful, hope you enjoyed it  :sunny:

Just wanted to pass along that my T is trying to help me with the whole vacuum cleaner in the sky thing (good analogy  :)), and has suggested embracing that I may not be ready for some things and it is a protective part of  me preventing me from knowing too early.

I don't know if this is helpful but it has helped me to relax and let the process unfold versus trying to force things as I am wont to do.  There are actually times now when I want to dissociate and can't and find myself longing a bit for the 'good old days' when I could go away from something painful. On the plus side I do know I can get through more than I could before, just by going a bit at a time.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 25, 2021, 12:39:32 AM
Glad you're feeling and doing better now, Armadillo. :)

I agree with Kizzie, being patient and respecting the process is important. It helped me to think about how many years the traumas happened to me, and how short my recovery (once I really started) was relative to that.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 25, 2021, 01:06:48 AM
I was trying to reply for awhile there Kizzie (and now Jazzy)...

I wanted to say I don't think my dissociation is about my brain deciding it's not yet ready to remember things. That I haven't had the exposure to the severe types of traumas other here have had. That I have trouble with accepting the dissociation because I don't have those types of traumas that would make it necessary for me to need to protect myself from the memories. Except...my memory is pretty bad so how do I really know that...and it's bad because I dissociated during much of my childhood..

That my dissociation is more about keeping myself from speaking up so I don't get physically hurt, from feeling connected to my body so I don't get physically hurt, from feeling emotions so I don't get psychologically hurt, and so my feelings don't cause others to attempt suicide.

Then I realized that would be a pretty bullcrap answer. And this exercise of trying to blow myself off in this response was pretty eye opening, so thanks Kizzie. Here's where I landed as I tried to wrestle with beating myself up for dissociating even though "it wasn't that bad."

I think I am extra sensitive to dissociation and that it has less to do with trauma and abuse than for others here, and more to do with the more biological risk factors I have for dissociation like being raised by a severely mentally ill parent who was under excessive stress and trauma while I was an infant and was probably quite dissociated while parenting. In fact I still can't even look at her because it makes me feel like I'm looking at a ghost. But even though the stuff wasn't as bad, clearly my brain needed to develop dissociation to cope.

** Begin TW, you all can skip this**

The physical abuse wasn't much that I recall. An incident here or there of being yanked, spanked, then thrown across the room; knowing (because she told me) but not remembering I witnessed my sis being pinned by the neck against a wall by our step dad and screamed at for sticking up for me (cookies were involved); witnessing my sis get hit (but rarely bruised) by our mom for standing up for herself against some crazy behaviors; not being able to feel things lest I express them and mom gets upset and cuts up her arms or worse. A single bad incident (or maybe a couple more) with a fundamentalist boyfriend who seems to have decided he was not being intimate with a girlfriend but instead was in spiritual warfare with the devil and treated me as such...

**End TW**

So yeah...ok. I need to dissociate. I haven't suffered the level of chronic abuse that many have, but my brain developed a tendency to dissociate out of necessity. That brain was made when I was just a little child and now I need to retrain it. It doesn't matter that it wasn't the worst of the worst, it doesn't matter that it may be more biological than trauma related. I might know that I don't need to dissociate anymore but that is a very recent discovery and I am in a long process of teaching this brain new tricks. When dissociation strikes I can't slow it down and reason with it. It sucks me up in an instant. All I can do is keep practicing especially when I'm with my T so we can catch it, slow it down, and reverse it. And of course, try to accept it and let it go as soon as I can when it happens instead of beating myself up for letting it happen, when I have no control over it.

Thank you this was extremely helpful.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on May 25, 2021, 04:51:35 PM
 If it caused and causes you to dissociate, I do think your trauma was bad Armadillo.

I grew up within an N family but to look at us you'd think all was good. My F was a high functioning alcoholic, my B a jock and my M Mother of the Year.  In reality they were emotionally abusive, critical, manipulative, unloving and unsafe.

I used to think my trauma wasn't severe enough but over time I realized if I have the symptoms of CPTSD, it was.  There is a core wound in all relational trauma; that is, being unloved, unsafe and attacked in overt/covert ways by those who are supposed to love us as a child.  We don't have to be assaulted physically or sexually, it's enough to have been repeatedly emotionally abused or neglected.  In the end that's what it all comes down to, what the abuse does to us emotionally, to our sense of self-worth, trust, safety, etc.

Hope this helps  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 25, 2021, 10:39:01 PM
It's okay, take your time and reply how it's good for you. You don't even need to reply if you don't want to, this is your journal. :)

I think you're doing great figuring this all out. It's good that you're realizing what your mind needs to do, and why.

I didn't skip your TW part, because that stuff has had a really big impact on your life, and it's really important. I'm really sorry you've been treated that way. It's no wonder your mind is sensitive and feels the need to protect itself, and you.

Honestly, that stuff sounds pretty bad.... but I also realize that me saying so may not mean much when you don't agree (which is fine).

I agree with what Kizzie says too. The emotional abuse is just as bad as physical abuse!

Quote from: KizzieIn the end that's what it all comes down to, what the abuse does to us emotionally, to our sense of self-worth, trust, safety, etc.

If you feel emotionally healthy and stable, know that you're very worthy, are able to trust others and yourself easily, feel safe in your day to day life, and are happy with who you are... then, that's great! If not, then maybe your trauma is worse than you realize, or at least still has a big impact, which is what is most important to me.

Either way, I'm glad you found things helpful, and are moving forward.

One thing I'd like to stress, if it doesn't bother you, is how helpful it can be to listen to what our subconscious is trying to tell us, even when our logic mind doesn't easily agree. For example:

Quote from: Armadillo...that my dissociation is more about keeping myself from speaking up so I don't get physically hurt, from feeling connected to my body so I don't get physically hurt, from feeling emotions so I don't get psychologically hurt, and so my feelings don't cause others to attempt suicide.

This is absolutely the right answer to why people dissociate. It is a protective mechanism, and this is how it starts... but later on, when that danger is gone, our minds still use the tools it has developed (dissociation) to keep it safe from other things, like remembering traumatic events. Memories and current actions are very different to us logically and physically, but mentally they are very similar (actually they are literally the same on some level, according to what I've read). In a way, remembering the traumatic event is being re-traumatized all over again, though perhaps to a lesser degree. It only makes sense for the mind to employ a time tested working method to keep safe.

So, "pretty bullcrap" is certainly not the words I would use to describe that answer. :)

There's more I want to say here, but I also don't want to be writing too much in your journal, or overwhelming you or anything.

Good job on working through this, keep it up! :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on May 26, 2021, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: Kizzie on May 25, 2021, 04:51:35 PM
If it caused and causes you to dissociate, I do think your trauma was bad Armadillo.

I used to think my trauma wasn't severe enough but over time I realized if I have the symptoms of CPTSD, it was.  There is a core wound in all relational trauma; that is, being unloved, unsafe and attacked in overt/covert ways by those who are supposed to love us as a child.  We don't have to be assaulted physically or sexually, it's enough to have been repeatedly emotionally abused or neglected.  In the end that's what it all comes down to, what the abuse does to us emotionally, to our sense of self-worth, trust, safety, etc.

:yeahthat: all of it!

It seems a common misconception among us cptsd-ers: My trauma isn't/wasn't bad enough; it wasn't really abuse  :blahblahblah: It took me years in therapy to stop believing that. I was told by FOO for years that it was my own fault and actually nothing had happened anyway, I had invented it all :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: Abusers (or 'just neglecters') saying that seems pretty common so no wonder it takes us a while to start to really believe otherwise, deep down.

I read the physical abuse done to you and/or witnessed by you in childhood. It sounds awful to me, terrifying. Witnessing abuse is also enough to traumatise btw. It's the terror it causes and the fact that you can't escape except maybe by dissociation. Also if it's happening to a sib, how are you to know that you're safe?? And done to a sib who's standing up for herself?? - that would give you a pretty good reason to not try to stand up for yourself so it could have been deliberate to have you witness that.

Anyway, that's enough on that topic for me. Sending you support and  :hug: :hug:



Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 29, 2021, 02:32:59 PM
I cried a bit yesterday. Just a few stray tears but I feel myself thawing a bit. Actually thawing isn't the right word. Connecting is. I've noticed if my T looks at me and says "you look sad, are you feeling sad?" it is starting to have an effect. Before I'd be like "no I don't feel sad at all" (and I'd believe that, I'm not trying to be tough).

I also felt a tiny voice of anger rising up yesterday.

I just am in so much awe right now. I cannot believe I've spent my whole life looking at things in 2D and this beautiful 3D world has been here this whole time. And I can't believe it was so easy to fix once I noticed what was happening. Last night I was riding in the car as we drove down the hill from our suburbs and through the nearby city. And seeing the city for the first time really in all directions, up down sideways... instead of just what is directly in front of me...I gasped. It's so much.

Everything looks and feels different. I feel anchored in space and not lost. In my house I feel big. Outside I feel small but secured, anchored.

So anyway. I'm feeling all these things. And I'm ust so grateful.  And sad that this has been here the whole time. Sad that I've felt so so stupid this whole time not knowing that massive chunks of my brain are not talking to each other. (Not just the vision thing, there's a lot of impact dissociation has had on me). Relieved that I can now see so much that I don't think I'll get lost as easily. And then that little anger. I thought: it's not my mom's fault that I am not looking at things. She didn't tell me to shut off the world around me. But then that little bit of anger rose up and protested that no she didn't tell me to not look at her, to not let her see me, to not let others see me. But her behaviors and my step dad's behaviors were such that as a little kid I had to come up with drastic ways to cope. That's not ok. It is what it is. She wasn't trying to be mean but it wasn't ok.

It was really fun though to be able to share this new development of having depth perception with my T yesterday. We've been doing therapy outdoors on hiking trails since COVID and explaining to him how I was seeing everything and what that was like to look at the trees, the houses below, the ridges in the distance...it was kind of magical feeling.

Today I am going to go to the town my grandparents used to live and see if I can find their old house. That was my happy secure place.

And I'm going to be driving past a major major city to get there and I can't wait to see what it looks like in 3D! 



Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 29, 2021, 02:40:59 PM
Oh and thank you Jazzy, Kizzie, and Blueberry for acknowledging the badness of my "not so bad" for me while I work my way to it. I've only stopped blaming myself a couple months before I found this forum so I have not yet really gotten to the place of seeing things for what they were. Right now I've sort of pushed all that stuff away forcefully to work on myself and heal my brain which is healthy for me right now to take advantage of some distance.   
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on May 29, 2021, 06:33:29 PM
 :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on May 29, 2021, 06:53:39 PM
hey, armadillo,

in my travels thru life and therapy, i've noticed that people usually compare themselves to either feel better or worse about themselves.  so many of us here have done the comparison thing, including myself.  my abuse wasn't the same as that toward others, but it nonetheless influenced my decision-making about myself and with relationships negatively.  yeah, there's a lot my parents never directly said to me, but their actions and behaviors determined my beliefs about the world and myself in it.

you once asked me how to get in touch with those missing feelings, and it sounds like you're doing exactly what you needed to do to retrieve them.  well done!   :applause:  i know it can be difficult to realize what these emotions mean at times, why they're there, the root source that caused them to pop up, but speaking about that little bit of anger you felt and following it to its source showed a lot of determination to find your truth.

i think you're doing really well with all this.  step by step, right?  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 29, 2021, 10:27:14 PM
This is absolutely beautiful; I love what you've said about 2D and 3D. You're right, an entire dimension was missing before.

While it's great that you're starting to feel and see and experience much more, be ready, because it's a lot and it might feel overwhelming at some point. I've always found slow, purposeful action with intent and precision to have better results than going fast. I'm "still" more emotional than I'm comfortable with, but I'd rather be over emotional than under emotional like I was for so many years.

Great job on all your hard work, and I'm so happy to hear the good results are coming in. :)

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 29, 2021, 10:43:51 PM
Haha! I feel like a little kid!!!! (In a good way, not like literally in a dissociative way).

Freeways and overpasses and bridges make sense now! Roads don't just appear out of nowhere! I feel like I've been plopped down in a lego world that has structure and makes sense and connects to everything else.

And what a trip!!!! I drove straight to my grandparents house! :cheer: The last time I was there was about 33 years ago. I had no idea where I was going but I didn't make a wrong turn I just drove there. I get lost going to the same store I go to every week! Thank you brain!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on May 30, 2021, 01:53:34 PM
Fantastic news Armadillo!  :hug:

Making it to your safe place-outstanding. You're on your way to more navigation like this. Stay the course.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on May 31, 2021, 12:37:46 AM
:) Wow! This is heartwarming to read! I'm so happy for you Armadillo!  :cheer:

:fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on May 31, 2021, 10:04:41 PM
On the continued awesome side of things: my brain is trying to form some imagery when I lay down for a nap or before bed or first thing in the morning. Just these faint landscapes that are things I've seen with my new visual perspective. They are very faint but in 3D with space and depth and rotation. I can't believe I might be able to fix this stuff. I still can't close my eyes and will an image like say my kid's face or my house but this is a fantastic start.

On the less great side there was too much intrusion by my mom the past week and I really started feeling trapped and triggered again. Not long ago I saw her multiple times a week and I thought maybe I could just make it once a week, or maybe once a month, but now I'm seeing how terrible I feel at the mere thought of seeing her once every 3 months for 5 minutes. I can't do it. And I feel awful because I "should" be able to. I should have gotten healed by now. I should be able to just suck it up. But I can't. And I don't know what to tell my kids. And I can't think of a solution that works. So I just keep ignoring the problem.  :whistling:

Part of me wishes I had stronger memories so I could really see and feel where this comes from and either defeat it or accept it. I could point to something undeniably awful and worthy of walking away.

The truth is though it isn't an issue of the past, I forgave her that stuff when it happened. It's that I haven't healed the PTSD yet and just being involved in her life is a new trigger every single time and my brain breaks. My body breaks. I dissociate and can't be the mom I need to be for my family. Ugh. This is ugly and sad and there's no good solution.  I do not want to tell her why or how she's affected me or that I have PTSD. I don't want her to know anything at all about me deep down. Hence, the eyes.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 01, 2021, 12:47:15 AM
That's great about the landscapes, Armadillo! I fully agree that it is a fantastic start. It sounds like this is an important topic for you, so I hope you continue to put time and effort in to improving it. I'm not really sure the best way to word this, but I found purposeful meditation to be very helpful in things like that. That kind of meditation is a really tricky subject and hard to learn but it has lots of benefits for some people. I don't know if it will be helpful for you, but I hope so. :)

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties with your mother. That's a really challenging thing to deal with and I understand how you're feeling. I get you feeling awful for not being able to handle it too but I wonder why you think you "should". I realize that mother/child relationship is such a complex topic that is so fundamental, there's no short or easy answer. I think its only natural to feel bad about not wanting to see M, at least I feel that way a lot too, but I wonder if it would be good for you to go a little easier on yourself.

In my opinion, the fact that your memories aren't strong enough to really see and feel what causes this and that you haven't healed yet is very telling of just how big the problem is. Its like when you try to take a picture of an object so big that it doesn't fit in the frame and you can't even make out what it is by looking at the picture.

I hear you that you're feeling discouraged but you've been a great positive influence in my life recently. I can only dream of having a mother as good as you! I also think there is a solution, even if it isn't as good (or fast) as the one you would like. For me, it is to work through the process of healing so that I can be better, so that I can help others, hopefully my M included one day. Like you, I'm certainly not ready, at this point, to tell her anything about me deep down.

I think feeling trapped is dangerous and can become a very big problem. I don't know the details of why you keep running in to your mother but I hope there's something you can do to work it out. Maybe you can talk with someone you're comfortable sharing more details with and they can help you find a solution?

Regardless, I hope you're feeling better and safer soon. All the best to you. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 03, 2021, 05:48:12 PM
Thanks Jazzy for the understanding. You are completely correct on all accounts especially that feeling trapped is a dangerous one, that I need to be kinder and gentler with myself and the healing process, and that the fact I don't have many memories is a bit indicative of how big the problem might be.

To answer your question about why I keep running into her...I actually haven't seen her for a couple months. But she texts questions about the grandkids, or my young daughter will want to call her and then shoves the phone at me on speaker, or she'll send a card and money to the kids so I need to have them call her to thank her (I want them to learn how to treat people). All three of those happened in a 2 day timespan this weekend. And then she is alone and has stage IV cancer and I'm the only one here...ugh.

Before the past few months when she went on a major lie-fest I was seeing her a few times a week for appointments, to drop off groceries or help her around the house etc.

I feel a lot of guilt and responsibility for her. I'm so much better about not feeling this as strongly and not acting on it the past few months. [T and I experimented with a little somatic experiencing and this big aggressive "no!" bubbled up inside me. I couldn't say it the way I felt and heard it I could only whisper it but that feeling of "NO!" was there. It pulled up a couple memories one related to my mom and one related a SAssault. After that I just needed to shove her away.]

The big thing is...I feel like I should be able to just see her for a few minutes once a month, have a casual text or phone call once a week. And then be done and be ok. But I so viscerally cannot do that right now. But I also cannot tell her why. So then I feel extreme guilt that I'm essentially just ghosting her with no explanation. And that isn't fair or kind either. But telling her why also isn't kind. So then I should just interact with her in a limited way (you called it "fake" in your journal and that's it exactly). But I can't anymore...I can't even look at her. So....trapped. That's the trapped feeling. I have to stress this is all so much better than it was. I truly thought 3 months ago I was awful, bad, wrong mean, a s*, misunderstanding things, crazy, etc. I just felt it all so much and so mean to myself. Now I'm just pushing it away. But being able to just kind of put it on a back burner is a big improvement. But I know I need to deal with it. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on June 03, 2021, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on June 03, 2021, 05:48:12 PM
[T and I experimented with a little somatic experiencing and this big aggressive "no!" bubbled up inside me. I couldn't say it the way I felt and heard it I could only whisper it but that feeling of "NO!" was there. ]
:thumbup: Once you start to acknowledge it, even if just whispering it, there will come a time when you will be able to say it louder and/or with more force behind it.

Quote from: Armadillo on June 03, 2021, 05:48:12 PM
The big thing is...I feel like I should be able to just see her for a few minutes once a month, have a casual text or phone call once a week. And then be done and be ok. But I so viscerally cannot do that right now. But I also cannot tell her why. So then I feel extreme guilt that I'm essentially just ghosting her with no explanation. And that isn't fair or kind either. But telling her why also isn't kind. So then I should just interact with her in a limited way (you called it "fake" in your journal and that's it exactly). But I can't anymore...I can't even look at her. So....trapped. That's the trapped feeling. I have to stress this is all so much better than it was. I truly thought 3 months ago I was awful, bad, wrong mean, a s*, misunderstanding things, crazy, etc. I just felt it all so much and so mean to myself. Now I'm just pushing it away. But being able to just kind of put it on a back burner is a big improvement. But I know I need to deal with it.

I can't manage to quote it atm or even look for it, but there are some interesting thoughts on this kind of thing at our sister website OOTF Out of the Fog.

If you cannot viscerally do what you want to do, your soul/psyche is telling you via your body that you can't. It's OK, understandable even.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 03, 2021, 11:32:55 PM
Wow, that's a lot of stuff going on. The phone being shoved at you sounds especially difficult. I know I would really struggle with that. It also sounds like you cut back on interacting with her fairly quickly and drastically. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, I find that quick drastic action is much more difficult to handle then a more gradual change. I imagine it is difficult for your M too.

The whole situation sounds so challenging. I'm sorry that it is a big burden for you. I'm also sorry I don't have a good answer to fix it up easily. I just kind of muddled my way through it doing the best I could, and I'm still struggling with my own mother. She just texted me not 10 minutes ago, and I don't even want to reply.

I'm glad that you're doing better though! It is a big improvement, like you said. It's been quick too! Maybe soon you will be able to "deal with it" a bit, as you continue to improve yourself.

All the best to you, Armadillo. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 03, 2021, 11:37:17 PM
Quote
If you cannot viscerally do what you want to do, your soul/psyche is telling you via your body that you can't. It's OK, understandable even.

Thanks BB. That is right. It feels wrong, but that's just the way it is. My body is telling me "no!"

Silly cPTSD. When you referred to the OOTF website you know how I took it? "You don't belong here. Go to the other site." It's not what you said or how you said it, it's my filter and core belief. One of my top 5 automatic thoughts.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on June 04, 2021, 02:07:14 AM
Armadillo, this is a lot to have going on.  I wanted to say something wise but wasn't sure how so would like to offer a hug or other gesture that brings support right now.

:grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on June 04, 2021, 03:59:49 AM
i echo rainy.  i wish i had the words, but they're not there right now.  know that i'm with you.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on June 04, 2021, 12:47:33 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on June 03, 2021, 11:37:17 PM
Silly cPTSD. When you referred to the OOTF website you know how I took it? "You don't belong here. Go to the other site." It's not what you said or how you said it, it's my filter and core belief. One of my top 5 automatic thoughts.

Even though I didn't know, I'm still sorry that that is how it came across. Of course you belong here! :hug: Sometimes there's additional useful information or experiences over there too.  A fairly long-time mbr there says something like: contact to people with personality disorders leaves you shattered so plan time to recover.

But maybe you too  - like me - simply need time to go through this and take your steps? And feel just fine on this website only? No response necessary.  ;)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on June 04, 2021, 06:19:14 PM
You're going through a lot right now! It sounds incredibly difficult- you're really strong for being able to deal with it. Wishing you the best. I wish I knew what to say. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 04, 2021, 11:55:54 PM
Like the others, I wish I knew how to be a better support for you. You're dealing with tough stuff!  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 06, 2021, 05:35:41 AM
You all are being awesome supports to me right now. Just having some place to go to talk about this stuff is very helpful. I have generically told my husband about dissociating but not the severity of it or how often it happens or how such little things can be triggers. Some but not a lot. So it is helpful to have a place to talk openly where I am not pretending that things are more ok than they are.

I had a really good therapy session on Friday and felt really good after. My therapist helped me think (or feel) through how to deal with my mom and he was very encouraging that I stay the course right now just as I have been doing. That my body is screaming at me "no stay away" and that the amount of healing I have gone through since disengaging has been remarkable. More progress in 3 months than in the previous 2+ years combined. Plus the whole vision thing is pretty remarkable by itself. So I was feeling confident I was doing the right thing for me and my family and resolved to continue a low level of contact.

He isn't one to talk about symptoms, diagnoses, or to pathologize anything. But he really was very blunt last night to show me how important it is to prioritize my own health. He said "you may not feel like it, you may feel like this is an overexageration, but it is not. This is just like a soldier going to war. It is that bad. It'd be maybe one thing if your symptoms were mild. Or heck even if they were moderate. But they are not. They are very very severe. Going back to your mom just as you are starting to heal would be like a soldier going back to war when they are still untreated for PTSD." He just never ever talks like that. So it really caught my attention. It felt very validating and especially made me feel good about how much I've been able to heal.

So I've gotten used to being knocked over by wave after wave the past half a decade...but I wish that good feeling could have lasted at least 24 hrs.

I found out today though from my aunt that my mom's cancer is progressing again and she'll need weekly chemo and will need to be at the doctor's office at least twice a week which is 20 minutes each way from her house. (And if I drive her it is a minimum of 3 hrs round trip).

My mom found out midweek about the progression and has told both her sisters, but not me and my sister. I should say that although I've put a lot of distance between myself and my mom the past few months while her cancer has been mostly in remission, me and my sister have been there for her consistently. Through a year plus of treatment for stage 3 cancer...chemo, radiation, surgery; a few years of multiple broken bones (while she was also off of psychiatric medication); and now about 2 yrs of treatment for stage 4 cancer. She has no other support and I'm the only one here so it has been a lot of time and effort. I've driven her to vast numbers of medical appoinments through all of this, while I worked, went to grad school, raised a family, and did pandemic homeschooling for my kids.

So although I have been pretty cool to her the past few months because her behavior was just too damaging and hurtful, I have a very long history of being there for her despite everything, despite how she treats me, despite how damaging it is to me.

So there's part of me that is pretty hurt and pissed she hasn't told us. And then part that is blaming myself for not constantly asking her how she doing and what she needs and not spending time with her...that it's my fault she hasn't told me, because I'm mean and bad and neglectful so I have no right to be upset. But I have done so so so much for her for years now.

It's all just such a cruddy feeling and there's no solution. I had just gotten comfortable giving myself permission to take a break and heal. But now it's probably time to crawl back into the foxhole with her. Once she tells me, that is.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on June 06, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
armadillo, i feel for you, i really do.  i toted my nc D1 around for years - medical docs, phys. therapy, numerous therapy sessions w/ different therapists (her physical health was as horrible as her mental health issues), but once i began taking care of myself, i definitely felt better, stronger within myself.  she's had various surgeries and hospital stays (from what i hear), has never contacted me, but will complain about how i don't care about her.

it's a no win situation.  our abusers will get sick, will die, and there's nothing we can do about that.  it breaks my heart every day, but, in my case, reconnecting with her would be suicide.   similarly, last year my sister, another abuser,  died. we hadn't been in contact for about 30 years.  i couldn't help her, either - she didn't want to be involved with me.  neither of these people told me they've been sick, altho the rest of the family knew.

i'm not telling you what to do, just relaying my experience, letting you know i totally relate to your situation. 

i agree with your T that we are waging a war against abuse and further trauma.  it's an ugly, dirty war sometimes, but i also agree it's a war we can't win if we stay involved with our abusers.  they hurt us in so many different ways, by so many different means - such as your mother not reaching out to you when you've been such a wonderful caregiver to her in the past.  to my mind, it's like a slap in the face to you.  those neg. thoughts about yourself are the abuse/trauma speaking.  they're not you.  if you were truly neglectful and bad, you wouldn't give a second thought to any of that.

if any of this sounds too harsh, please ignore it.  i don't mean to upset you.

hang tough, ok?  hangin' right beside you.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 06, 2021, 07:13:44 PM
Thank you San Magic. Your words hit just perfect. Warm hugs back at you.  :hug:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on June 06, 2021, 10:55:45 PM
Armadillo,

I like the way your T explained his perspective
Quotehe really was very blunt last night to show me how important it is to prioritize my own health. He said "you may not feel like it, you may feel like this is an overexageration, but it is not. This is just like a soldier going to war. It is that bad. It'd be maybe one thing if your symptoms were mild. Or heck even if they were moderate. But they are not. They are very very severe. Going back to your mom just as you are starting to heal would be like a soldier going back to war when they are still untreated for PTSD."

I wish you clarity and daily prioritization.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 07, 2021, 11:41:35 PM
This sounds so difficult, Armadillo. I'm sorry you're struggling with it.   :hug: if it is positive for you.

Unfortunately, I have no experience to share RE: taking care of your ill mother. I wish I could help, but I think it best to defer to others on this topic.

What I did find particularly interesting though, is this:
QuoteHe just never ever talks like that. So it really caught my attention. It felt very validating and especially made me feel good about how much I've been able to heal.

I had a similar situation in my life, which is what led to me understanding I really need to treat my CPTSD, and me finding this forum. Even though I didn't understand what was really going on or why, I realized it was out of my depth, and I should pay attention to the other person. Surely, if they were acting out of character, it must be important. Feeling good about what they said was a good sign, so I just trusted them. That was the best decision I've ever made.

Like San, I'm not here to tell you what to do, but I do want to say that I think Armadillo is the most important person in Armadillo's life, and should do what is best for her. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 09, 2021, 05:05:03 AM
I've gotten to a decent place the past day or two re stuff with my mom right now. I know there's nothing good to be done. No solution that doesn't damage me. I wish I were recovered enough that that was not the case, but the reason I am not recovered enough is because I've put her needs exceptionally above mine over and over and over to the extreme.

So the thing to do that is least damaging is.....nothing. Just. Do. Nothing. I won't have that luxury for long, I know the proverbial excrement will hit the fan soon enough and I don't need to make the present miserable trying to figure out how to deal with her or figuring out what I can do.

My sister was overflowing with anger this morning and wanted to send a blistering email but my zen attitude wore off on her too even though I told her she should send it if it would make her feel better...just for me....it wouldn't. I would feel worse. I would feel worse because my mom's response would be denial, outright lies, and complete inability to own things. So I would be more angry but stuck trying to work my way through a new set of lies and manipulation while the old set gets set on the back burner.

While I take responsibility that the reason she hasn't told us is that we are barely speaking to her right now, the reason we are barely speaking to her is 100% on her. I've taken the blame my whole life. This is not my fault. I have good relationships across the board other than with her.

I do feel a bit depressed and angry though those emotions are not tied to actual things...they are dissociated from the circumstances...but at least I am seeing them there.

Other than that stuff I was actually more productive today than I have been in a long long time. I started work early, got stuff done instead of spacing and pacing, paid (overdue) bills, baked two things, and parented. I am exhausted though. Like not end-of-the-day exhausted but thoroughly exhausted. I need to take a prolonged break.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on June 09, 2021, 12:03:34 PM
Armadillo, that is a lot to navigate.  Your comment about needing an extended break resonates with me.  No matter what is going on I often feel that way.  I hope that you are able to feel some ease.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on June 09, 2021, 02:06:42 PM
Hi Armadillo,

I want to congratulate you on this:
QuoteI was actually more productive today than I have been in a long long time.

Your feeling of being between a rock and a hard place is really familiar. Life will evolve and change, sometimes in ways that you least expect or think you are controlling. Stay the course by being present with yourself and invest in daily productivity as much as you can manage. You can do it.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 09, 2021, 11:11:58 PM
Sounds like things are really stressful with your M. I'm sorry it's tough right now.

This is a really challenging situation, and it's clearly a big part of your life. It sounds like so much to process. I think you're doing a wonderful job of that, though. :)

It's phenomenal that your calm and positivity influenced your sister positively! Wow!  :cheer:

I'm also glad to see the rewards in your own life, e.g. being more productive.

It makes sense that you feel so exhausted. This is a huge thing. Exhausted is much better than triggered / dissociating etc. though. I hope you get the rest and relaxation you need and deserve to continue dealing with all of this.

All the best Armadillo. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 11, 2021, 05:03:29 AM
Thank you all for the warm empathy and understanding.

My mom finally let me and my sis know, yesterday morning about her cancer growing again. She let us know in a group text...me, my sis, and two aunts. The 2 aunts already knew cause she told them a week earlier, but my mom pretended we were all learning at the same time. I've pushed away the guilty feelings (I must be such an awful person that this is how she tells me) and instead am trying to think: it's really crappy after all the support me and my sis have poured into helping her and supporting her the past 5 years that she couldn't even pick up a phone and call us.

I was pretty messed up yesterday between trying to work, getting that text, taking my kids to get a vaccine and to midday swimming, taking care of the kids,  pounding loud foundation work on the house and workers interrupting with questions, and not sleeping well this week...By the time hubby got home yesterday evening I was totally at the end of my rope.

He was really kind and supportive last night and this morning. And tonight we talked too more specifically about my mom and he understands and doesn't think I'm bad.

Between that and taking the day off to just hang out with the kids and working only a little bit, I feel good today. Took my daughter out to breakfast the craft store and the zoo (my son enjoyed the alone time at home). As a family we went out for burgers (take out) tonight.

My teen son also gave me a hug with no prompts. He's getting really sweet. I can tell he feels comfortable, loved, and accepted. It's really nice and makes my heart swell.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on June 11, 2021, 12:11:37 PM
Armadillo, I feel how difficult this time is.  The contrast between moments of challenge and moments of love and rest stood out to me.  I hope that you continue to find moments that feel good while also doing your best with the difficult ones.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 13, 2021, 06:02:30 AM
Ugh.

I got a call from my mom's oncologist Friday afternoon, that she had been given some strong pain medication and then also had a reaction to her new chemo drug so needed benadryl and steroids on top of that. The dr called to tell me she was very confused and a fall hazard and that she needed to have someone check on her a few times.

I was so frustrated by this. They know she lives alone and is noncompliant with health and safety advice. Why did they send her home alone knowing she wasn't safe? I told the dr I didn't really know what I was supposed to do because she doesn't want our help, doesn't want us involved and lies to us about what is going on. (This is not a surprise to the doctor, we've been working together for around 6 yrs, and there are social workers involved too.)

The dr told me she knew all that because my mom really really did NOT want her to call me and tell me. I just don't understand how I am supposed to be responsible for someone's health and safety when they lie and push me away.

It's all very upsetting and extremely triggering for me. I know this all just makes me sound super mean. Like why else would she not want me to help her? But I'm not, typically, mean. I am typically patient, kind and bend over backwards.

But I am so fed up and triggered that I just can't do this anymore. The way I handled it Friday was ok. I had my aunt call and check on her and my mom insisted she was fine and did not want help (though she was sending super nonsensical incoherent text messages). Then I texted a neighbor to check on her. Then I called the doctor back to tell them she was very confused but did not want help and asking what could be done with social work?

But today I sent a not nice text. Telling her how hurtful these things are and that I don't know what I am supposed to do and what does she want from us? I told her these are just two examples of many that make it impossible to maintain a relationship. It wasn't quite a no contact letter but kind of close.

I'm just at a loss as to what I am supposed to do. It feels so mean to be harsh toward her when she is suffering. But it's been nonstop crises for 6 years and her behavior has gotten worse and worse toward me the more I help her the meaner she is. When I finally get fed up and say something then she sees me as all evil and replaces me with neighbors and replaces her grandkids with the neighbor kids.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on June 13, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
Hi Armadillo,
I wanted to send you a hug of support  :hug: 
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on June 13, 2021, 03:10:11 PM
armadillo, so much of what you've written about your mom's behavior over the past years reminds me of  what's happened between me and D1 -the same type of scenario (helping, helping, helping, and being harshly pushed away, the lies, the attitude) and dynamic between us, and i was always the one who felt guilty and bad and trying to figure out how to fix it.

i finally had to let go.  she was pushing me to the brink of sanity, and it took me more than 20 years to realize there was nothing i could do to fix the relationship.  every chance available, she'd find some way to hurt me, shut me out of her life, then turn on a dime and make me feel guilty for not being there for her next crisis.  sometimes, there is no fix, especially if the other party isn't looking to work at it.   i've been NC with her for over 6 yrs., and tho i have a hole in my heart where she belongs, it is less painful than what continued to happen between us.

and, personally, i don't think there is enough recovery in the world that would make it all right to be in her presence again, even for a little while. 

i'm so very sorry you're going thru this with your mom.  one thing i've learned along the way is we can't help anyone who doesn't want to be helped.  i think it was a really good idea to get your aunt to call your mother instead of you.  keep taking care of yourself, ok?  sending love and a hug filled with clarity. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 13, 2021, 03:51:03 PM
Thank you for the support Hope and Rainy.

San Magic, I'm sorry you've had to go through so much and I can't even imagine how hard that would be for a mom to have to go no contact.  :hug: that says a lot about how painful and difficult things were and I really appreciate you sharing here because it helps.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on June 13, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
hey,

your experience with your mother just triggered the experience with me D1 - it sounded so familiar!  it's a horrible situation to be part of, and i am so very sorry you're experiencing it.  i'm just glad that what i said was helpful.  we need all the help we can get thru these situations.  love and hugs, sweetie :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on June 13, 2021, 04:34:07 PM
Hi Armadillo,

I'm agreeing with this comment:
Quotei don't think there is enough recovery in the world that would make it all right to be in her presence again, even for a little while.

This is such a no win situation for you. Those Drs who continue to call despite knowing reality are completely missing the boat. I admire you for standing your ground and holding onto your boundaries. Keep doing the hard stuff, protecting yourself. It's very tough. I've been there.

You are going to get through this, and having those small moments of sweet support (hugs) from your kids keep the balance in the midst of  what could be a toxic tsunami wave.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 13, 2021, 04:59:32 PM
Thank you for the strong support BeeKeeper as I know you've been through similar.

The hard part...and this is where recovery DOES come in... is my PTSD is about being terrified my mom would kill herself as a kid and it would be all my fault for either causing it or not stopping it. So being in contact with her is retraumatizing but so is being no contact. It's almost no win. And there are traumatic side tendrils of this too all related to suicide and keeping people alive. Except I am really like 90% cured of the fear so now the thought of no contact is becoming more feasible. The balance is shifting.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on June 13, 2021, 06:11:41 PM
Armadillo, everything you are going through with your mom sounds incredible difficult, hurtful, confusing, and frustrating. Sending a supportive hug.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 14, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
Hi Armadillo,

This all sounds so very difficult. I dread the day when I have to deal with this sort of situation myself. I wish there was more I could do to help.  :hug:

Quote from: ArmadilloI just don't understand how I am supposed to be responsible for someone's health and safety when they lie and push me away.
Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think you are supposed to be responsible for another person's health. Of course you can do your best without endangering anyone else, especially yourself, but it is really up to the individual and their medical professionals in the end.

It seems natural to feel responsible for our parents though... it's the cycle of life, is it not? Parents look after children, then children look after parents. However, parents are their own people, and if they don't want help, that's their choice. Children also need to look after themselves too. ...This is not the kindest thing I've said recently, but from the sound of it, your mother has not set the bar of expectation very high. I don't think you need to feel guilty at all.

I'm sorry you're triggered; that's very understandable. I get how you feel like you're being mean, but I really don't think you are. It sounds to me like you're learning to take care of yourself, and that is wonderful!

While your text doesn't sound nice, it sounds honest, and it sounds like you're attempting to connect with your mother despite how difficult she makes that. I honestly have no criticism I can offer. You're doing great, in my opinion.  :applause:

All the best to you, Armadillo! :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 14, 2021, 07:56:07 PM
Thanks Jazzy. This was all very kind of you, but I do need to say that I definitely was not trying to connect with her, but I have tried all that over and over so many different ways. Enough that I know there's no fixing this, no changing how things are, no death bed moments of apologies or gratitude or anything. So that text was not written in a way to encourage connection but to cut it off.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 14, 2021, 08:18:17 PM
This has been an interesting couple days inside my head. The voices in there keep flopping back and forth. Usually they are just mean mean mean to me and shock me sometimes with what they say and it's clearly been a way to keep me being good and kind and to not no matter what get mad at my mom. Better to be mad at me. To think I'm awful and terrible. The voice will sometimes say "I hate you. You deserve to die." And I'm embarrassed to admit this, but a few times this weekend the voice swapped out pronouns to "her/she" (my mom) instead of "you" (me).

This is all kind of subconscious and I don't believe any of it, against me or her. Not at all, it's just there and I mostly ignore it, once I learned to not be freaked out by it. Just intrusive thoughts to distract me from emotions.

My mom has not responded, which I was expecting her to not. Just. That's what it is. I'm waiting for the next emergency when I'll need to figure out where my boundary is.

*TW for Mom/Kid Wounds*

And I had an interesting conversation with my husband yesterday where we were talking about our parenting, and how much my kids (esp my daughter) cling to me and want me to do everything be everywhere with her. And my husband was empathizing with me that it must be tiring but I said something about how I probably encouraged it a bit to sort of be the opposite of how things were with my mom...he asked what I meant and I explained I never wanted her near me, never wanted her help with anything, just wanted to stay away. He asked me "when did that start?" And I asked him what he meant? And he clarified "when did you stop wanting your mom to be around you?" And it was just such a startling question to me. I never wanted her near me that I remember. I remember being very very young and wanting her to stay away. I was shocked that that was even a question to ask. Then after I was a little shocked that: wow. That's not normal. To not want your mom. (I worry about how this will hurt some here who's children have not been kind)

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 15, 2021, 02:00:03 AM
I'm sorry I misunderstood. I took your question literally; I have a bad habit of doing that.

I hope you find some peace between now and the next emergency. It sounds like you are feeling and thinking a lot. The distraction sounds nice, even if the thoughts aren't so positive, yet. I understand having those thoughts though. It sounds like you are transferring some anger away from yourself to your mother, which sounds like a more appropriate (accurate?) place for it. I see this as good progress.

I'm sorry that your mother hurt you so badly that you never wanted to be around her.  :hug: I feel like I should say a lot more about that, but I don't have the words right now.

I'm glad you were able to figure that out and write about it too. Hopefully it helped with processing things.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 15, 2021, 02:51:56 AM
Quote from: Jazzy on June 15, 2021, 02:00:03 AM
I'm sorry I misunderstood. I took your question literally; I have a bad habit of doing that.

Me too. But I think that's why it is very easy for me to connect with you here is because we are both literal. And I wasn't offended. It's my defense anytime someone says something nice about me especially if it feels untrue to how I see myself (bad mean wrong stupid) I need to quickly correct them to be honest and not lie about who I am. So when you said I was trying to connect I had to prove that no, I'm bad and mean. I was being mean. Otherwise it would feel like I was lying and being dishonest and not owning my behavior.

So you did nothing wrong and have no need to apologize at all. I appreciate your support and you already say and write a lot, you don't need to do more. Thank you.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on June 15, 2021, 02:38:04 PM
your experience with not wanting to be around your mom, even when you were little, was, i think, very different from that of me and my D1.  it sounds like you were frightened about the responsibility for her life.  i can't even imagine how a little kid could cope with that except by staying away.  i'm sure it was a startling question to have to grasp an answer for.  these realizations can often take us by surprise.

i totally agree  about the responsibility part.  adults make their own choices, and we are not responsible for those choices.  it's one of the most basic, to me, concepts of not having control over anyone or anything but ourselves and our choices.  it's so difficult what you're going thru, but it sounds like you're becoming stronger as you continue in your recovery.  very happy to hear that.  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on June 16, 2021, 02:46:09 AM
Quote from: Armadillo on June 14, 2021, 08:18:17 PM
. . . I explained I never wanted her near me, never wanted her help with anything, just wanted to stay away. He asked me "when did that start?" And I asked him what he meant? And he clarified "when did you stop wanting your mom to be around you?" And it was just such a startling question to me. I never wanted her near me that I remember. I remember being very very young and wanting her to stay away. I was shocked that that was even a question to ask. Then after I was a little shocked that: wow. That's not normal. To not want your mom.

That says a lot, that from a very young age, you didn't want to be around your mom. Yep, not normal. How incredibly toxic she must be that your young heart wanted to stay away from her.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 18, 2021, 07:39:52 PM
I haven't posted in my journal for a few days. I haven't really known what to say. So sorry this is just...I don't know what will come out. It'll definitely be more of the same.

I am starting to cry right now. Sitting at the pool waiting for my daughter's swim lesson to finish. It's not noticeable to anyone but me because my tears are tiny but they are there and I feel them and that is good.

I want so much to be a good kind patient person. Its really important to me. Aside from being a good mom, it's my top value. So being in this situation [oh wow, my nose is running too!] with my mom is so painful because it goes against my core and how I have tried to be. And new social workers and doctors entering this situation, my mom's neighbors, my mom....see me as...something else I think. And I really am not strong enough in my recovery to stand up for myself if pushed.

Right now I am on edge just not knowing when the next phone call will come to tell me she needs help and I think she has treatment again today so I worry anytime today I could get a painful call where I just feel trapped and triggered.

I know I should be practicing being in the present moment but i worry if i let my guard down I will be caught off guard and not be strong and be guilted by a well-meaning medical professional.

My mom also has only responded to my text from last Saturday to say she'll respond later when she knows what to say. But we know this cycle. We gently tell my mom something she is doing is hurting us. She plays the victim card, denies, lies then ignores us for a few weeks then pops up pretending like nothing happened and wanting to know answers to a million questions over text. Then we get eventually so fed up with new bad behaviors and we say something harsh, feel like awful people, repeat.

******TW*******
I also think maybe once she just has a couple more months to live that she may take her own life. I can understand that. It's not for me, but I'm already bracing for it and worried about feeling to blame or my husband maybe thinking I'm to blame or worse he's to blame for not making me be kinder to her. I know I need to talk to him about this soon.

******End TW******

My T has been on vacation for a couple weeks. Our last session was so good. I had cover for not engaging with her and not explaining why but the thing with the doctor just threw me off kilter and I blew that all up. Oops.

Anyway other things are good. I was planning to take the day off today as vacation but now it's a federal holiday where I am as of yesterday afternoon (Juneteenth, to celebrate the end of slavery) and I am so happy this is now recognized as a holiday.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on June 18, 2021, 09:05:37 PM
Armadillo,
I'm glad you were able to let some tears out.

I can tell by the way you respond to others on OOTS and by the compassionate way you have responded to me; you are a good, kind, patient person. You are a good, kind, patient person with boundaries. There will be people involved with your mother who don't understand the full situation and who may have judgements about you. I'm sorry about that. But they don't know the full story. You still get to do the best job you can of taking care of yourself and your H and daughter.

It makes sense that you are on edge, not knowing when the next phone call will come. Would it help if you had possible answers for her and possible answers for the medical staff? Maybe that would diminish the trapped and triggered feelings. For example: "I'm sorry that I can't bring you to that appointment, I have another commitment." [No need to mention that the commitment is taking care of yourself. Sorry if this is unwanted advise. If not helpful, just ignore. I don't want to add pressure to your already stressful life.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on June 18, 2021, 10:20:17 PM
Armadillo, I appreciate the compassion you show here in the forum.  Your feelings and questions and concerns resonate with me.  You are enough and I appreciate being in community with you. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 19, 2021, 03:56:56 AM
Thank you Rainy and Not Alone. That helped a lot. I'm learning to look at this more balanced but you all know how those triggers work, they pull you down into a wounded place where the thinking gets very black and white and...young.

Not Alone, your advice was perfect. It really helped to think about having responses ready and I'll need to write them down and have them ready.

I got a call from my mom today. She normally only texts. I didn't answer when she called partially because I didn't want to and partially because I was having a day out with my 9 yr old and was in the bakery with her. But she left me and my sis both very woeful messages about how she wanted to talk to us about what the palliative care doctor had told her yesterday and I had a chemo appointment today and another dr appointment today. So she is about to pour on the victim pity party to wiggle out of addressing the issues that need to be addressed. It's such a predictable game. But I'm not falling into the trap this time. I called her back this evening after I made dinner for my family. She didn't answer and I left a message that I would answer in the next 15 minutes and after that I wouldn't be available to talk as I was sitting down to have dinner with my family and spend time with them. She called back after 18 min. She often does this and I know it is a silly boundary and I should have answered, but this is actually on her. I would not do this with anyone else. And she tries to break every boundary which makes me want to erect more and stick with even unimportant ones like this one.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on June 19, 2021, 03:57:55 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on June 19, 2021, 03:56:56 AM
She called back after 18 min. She often does this and I know it is a silly boundary and I should have answered, but this is actually on her. I would not do this with anyone else. And she tries to break every boundary which makes me want to erect more and stick with even unimportant ones like this one.

I don't think that it's a silly boundary at all. You know the games she plays. And as you stated, you wouldn't do that with someone else, but you know her manipulations. Good job.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 21, 2021, 10:03:03 PM
Wow Armadillo,

I'm sorry she is treating you like this. I hope it's not out of line for me to say "that sounds familiar". That kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable though, at least to me.

I think you did a great job setting boundaries and sticking by them. She tested you, and you passed with flying colours!  :cheer:

Quote from: Armadillo...she tries to break every boundary which makes me want to erect more and stick with even unimportant ones like this one.

I think you're right. It feels crucial to stick with every boundary because she tries to break them all and take advantage of you in any way possible. I can't help but wonder if you want to stick with it, then perhaps it is important to you, even if it seems little.

One thing I've learned lately is that little things are just as important as big things, and will become big if left unresolved. I do my best to deal with them while they're still little and easy to manage. :)

It's so great that you've learned this pattern and are able to stand up for yourself and not be trapped in the old cycle. That is phenomenal progress!  :cheer:

Jazzy <3
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 24, 2021, 02:59:20 AM
Thank you J and N for your encouragement about the boundary being important.

I probably have a lot to say and write but right now I just want to say thank you to everyone and that I'm slowly trying to catch up on your journals.

It's been a long week. Work has been very busy requiring long days including sometimes working till 3am and getting back up at 6am to keep at it. Here...we can put a myth to rest...I am a government worker. I don't work with anyone who is lazy. 😁

Things kinda exploded with my mom this weekend. Lots of gaslighting.  And manipilation with health crises. And denials.

It's really sad. I can't change her, I can't fix it, and her brain just interprets stuff in such a negative light. I'm a kind person and my mom only sees me as mean because I told her I couldn't do it all with kids and homeschooling due to the pandemic and work and that I needed her to get a little help with transportation and an aide a few hours a week. (This was as she was coming home from 6 weeks in the hospital and very weak). She interpreted that as "armadillo said she doesn't want to be involved." And as her reason for not telling me things.

It's just you know almost cruel, that I can't talk to her about issues, or when things upset me I can't discuss them with her or resolve them. Trying to at all gets me marked as all bad and mean and out to get her. Like you said Jazzy, it's important to resolve things when they are small. Now I am angry and don't want to be involved....so in essence I have become mean and neglectful....so sad.

Anyway, my T is back and we talked it through and came to the conclusion there's nothing to be done. Trying to rebut the gaslighting just feeds the cycle more. I can't just suck it up and go back to the old pattern of me accepting all her behavior and bending over backward to absorb it and not say anything as the antics escalate. That makes me very sick physically, emotionally, and psychologically, down to my very brain splitting itself. That's not ok.

So I just let it be. I'll step in when it is absolutely necessary but that's it. No more. Just she is there, I am here.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Libby183 on June 24, 2021, 07:54:54 AM
Armadillo, that sounds like an very good position to take, to step in when absolutely necessary. It was what I eventually did when my stbxH was terminally ill, and it was the right approach. Anything more was just too much.

I wish you well with everything you are dealing with.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 25, 2021, 12:53:28 AM
Armadillo:

I wish I had more to say, but I'll keep it short and sweet for now. I'm sorry things with your M are so difficult. I hear you that you are feeling sick in many ways. Along with your work, this is extremely concerning.

3 hours rest from work is not only unhealthy, it is illegal. I think that is a step beyond exploitation, though I don't know what the word would be. Government job is no excuse. Of all the jobs available, the government can afford to hire more workers.

Quote from: ArmadilloThat's not ok.
No, it most certainly is not. I hope you have the strength to take action to improve things.

Above all, I hope you find some peace. You are not mean because your M says so. You have been nothing but kind and sweet to me, which I appreciate very much.

You are doing excellent despite all of these challenges. Keep up the good work, especially when the good work is relaxing!

:hug: if it is welcome by you.

Jazzy <3
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 25, 2021, 02:52:30 AM
Hi Armadillo,

It just occurred to me that what you wrote in my journal about M passing and leaving an inheritance may be a reflection of what you are feeling about your own situation, and I wonder if it will be helpful for you to explore and process that.

I do not blame you at all if you have such thoughts. I have them myself, though more so about M's parents in my particular case.

I also realize I have neglected to ask you about your favourite colour, which I apologize for. I know all to well how damaging neglect is. What colour would you like me to use for your name? You can pick any colour you like!

All the best to you, Armadillo!

Jazzy <3
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 25, 2021, 05:43:19 AM
Thanks Jazzy. I wasn't feeling neglected at all by you but I have been really touched seeing you ask people their favorite colors. It's really sweet and thoughtful. Mine is turquoise. :)

No wish for any inheritance from my mom. I am repulsed by everything having to do with her and want nothing from her. But I am lucky. My husband and I both have good paying jobs and are comfortable. What I said came directly from a place of caring about you. Extreme anger you were physically, emotionally, and educationally neglected and that if you can't afford to get that fixed...well it made me angry and wanting someone who caused it to fix it.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 25, 2021, 06:13:26 AM
More drama. 😪

She called today to tell me her white blood cells are zero and she had a thrush infection and could barely swallow. My aunt had already told me including that the doctors wanted her to go to the hospital but she declined. I offered to help but she was passive aggressive and weird and pushed it all away while also hinting she wanted certain things but when I asked her to be direct she pushed the offers away completely. I'm feeling more sad every day about this stuff as the layers of protection I built up over the decades loosen.

I also have been feeling pretty awful since therapy on Tuesday because I felt really let down by how he handled me. It's fine we'll get back on track but it's been a yucky feeling.

And then this morning I woke up to a manipulative email from a "friend" (loose acquaintances from college 20 yrs ago) I thought I had blocked successfully.



****TW*****



This is the one who tried to manipulate me multiple times into doing things for him by threatening suicide. Last email from him was the last straw when he accused me of being mean and selfish and how I never help him when he asks for help and would I please help him this one time buy something he really wants. But I probably wouldn't because I've never helped him.


****End TW****



Anyway. I used to try to make things better but once I realized how badly he was manipulating me, how he was very selfish, this was the last straw after 3 years of this and I blocked him.

But somehow his email got through today. He told me how he had been going through email and noticed how in my photo I've "gotten even more beautiful" and how did I even do that? So that led me to go scrambling through our past email threads because I thought I had been smart enough to not send a photo. I finally realized he was talking about my picture on my Google account. : / But it was yucky to go through those old emails and see how blind I was to the manipulation for a long time and how could I have let people like that into my life and been so stupid. It scares me a little. Such a doormat. I think I am much stronger now. And I ignored the email though it got under my skin.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Libby183 on June 25, 2021, 07:00:02 AM
Hi Armadillo.

So impressed by the way you handled the manipulative email. Hopefully dealing with this type of incident will give you the strength to deal with the bigger issue of your mother's ill health and behaviour. I truly believe that my H became an even more exaggerated version of himself when he was terminally ill. It's hard to deal with, but gave me some sense of closure in the end.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 25, 2021, 07:27:33 AM
This is really helpful to hear Libby....your perspective based on dealing with your H during his terminal illness. I do agree with you and I'm actually pretty thankful oh gosh this sounds awful but thankful that this has dragged on so long because it's given me an opportunity to try just about everything possible and to still end up at the same spot in terms of her behavior but in a healthy spot for me with a more realistic view of things...it  affirms that um it's not my fault. I can't fix it.

I'm so sad you went through the treatment you went through and still are suffering from your daughter's reactions. Its not fair to you but I am really impressed at how healthy you seem about it. Very balanced. Thanks again for sharing.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 26, 2021, 02:17:24 AM
Armadillo,

This all sounds like so much! I imagine you're feeling overwhelmed by it all, which is understandable.

You're doing a great job though! I'm very impressed by how you are recognizing your feelings and what causes them.

Quote from: ArmadilloI think I am much stronger now. And I ignored the email though it got under my skin.

I'm confident the second sentence here is evidence of the truth of the first. :)

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 26, 2021, 12:29:53 PM
Quote from: ArmadilloNo wish for any inheritance from my mom. I am repulsed by everything having to do with her and want nothing from her. But I am lucky. My husband and I both have good paying jobs and are comfortable. What I said came directly from a place of caring about you. Extreme anger you were physically, emotionally, and educationally neglected and that if you can't afford to get that fixed...well it made me angry and wanting someone who caused it to fix it.

I understand, Armadillo!

Thank you for caring so much about me.  :hug:

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on June 27, 2021, 12:05:08 AM
With both your mother and your "friend" who sent the email, I can see how you have really grown in your ability to see unhealthy people more clearly and that you are getting stronger in your ability to set appropriate boundaries.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 27, 2021, 12:19:53 AM
Armadillo, I apologize if this is not the best time/place to mention this, but it has been on my mind, so I want to get it out.

I seem to recall you saying something about how bad your thoughts/feelings towards your M are, specifically about how long it has dragged on, which has given you time to try everything you can. I cannot find that post for some reason. Perhaps someone else wrote it, but I thought it was you. Perhaps there is another reason, though it doesn't matter too much why I can't find it.

While I understand that sounding bad, I see it as you finding some positive in this horrible situation, which is a tremendously good thing! In the future, when it is not so raw, perhaps it could be worded gentler, but I think it is great for right now!  Being able to see any positive at all in this situation, along with work and everything else going on, is extremely impressive. :thumbup:

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 27, 2021, 05:52:11 AM
Thank you, Jazzy. That was me. Not sure where I wrote that! You are right that it's a really difficult situation and yeah I was trying to grasp for some positives. In reality it might have been better for it to be fast, before I lost my ability to just take it all and be kind no matter what.

But I know I've tried, I know it isn't my fault that the relationship is how it is. I took all I could before I could not take anymore. I wish so much I could just hang on another few months just to let her die feeling unconditionally loved. I tried. I don't know why I could take it for 40 years and then couldn't anymore....but that's not true.

I know why. It was affecting me so much that it was affecting my kids. And the massive retriggering from simultaneously experiencing her self neglect and my 10yr old having suicide plans...that's the PTSD and it is awful.  And I saw that no matter what I did I could not actually help her be happy. I also started seeing my symptoms for what they were...completely not ok. Insomnia and nightmares for 4 years straight. Complete dissociation. Unable to find my way places I go to hundreds of times. Panic and terror. Self hatred. Compelte cognitive dysfunction. 

My main emotion the past week has been just anger and hurt that she took from me the single most important thing aside from my kids: being kind. It hurts me so much to not be able to care for my mom in her final months. I know actually that she knows how important it is to me to help people and be kind that she is intentionally pushing my help away to hurt me.

Once about 6 months ago I was visiting with my family during covid. Because she was getting chemo we stayed outside and brought food. First she was panicking because the bees were near her and she kept muttering at them and telling them to go bother the kids (her grandkids!). Anyway that's an aside. I noticed her bird feeders were empty and asked if she'd like me to fill them since I know she enjoys watching the birds but was really weak and tired. She insisted "no!" in a way that made me sound and feel evil for offering. As we were leaving she got this wicked smile and asked "could Mr. Armadillo come in and help me for a minute with something?" I said of course! But her smile was so wicked I had to ask my husband when he came out what she had wanted help with. Filling the bird feeders.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on June 27, 2021, 03:18:18 PM
Armadillo,

Quote"could Mr. Armadillo come in and help me for a minute with something?"
Where is that eye roll emoticon when you need it?

As sad as this is, I really love the way you already have her behavior figured out to a T. I'm so impressed! Forewarned is forearmed, and IMO you need to stay constantly armed. I'll say "guarded" for a softer touch.

QuoteAnd I saw that no matter what I did I could not actually help her be happy.

I am affirming your statements, your limits and boundaries, your views of yourself in this complex situation. If I could offer one more thought. Would it be possible to consider that her intentions are less about you than they are about her having ultimate control over people close to her? I know it feels very personal and directed, but someone pointed out to me that those who behave this way do not have the capacity to see others and plan how it affects them. They are caught in a bubble of self, from which they are unable to escape. The more I apply it to my own "difficult person" the more it seems to fit.  It reveals weakness instead of strength.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on June 28, 2021, 12:47:00 AM
Your mom's cruelty is appalling. Makes me really sad, Armadillo.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 28, 2021, 01:51:12 AM
Others have made great points here, which I fully agree with.

I also have a slightly different perspective to share, based on my own experience.

Armadillo, I see that not only have you grown significantly in your mastery of emotion over this past year, it is clear that you are able to use your intellect to gain a very solid understanding of your mothers behaviour, as well as the impact it has on you and your family.

This is difficult for anyone. Studying psychology and behaviour like that is an entire field of science, which many never accomplish even in a disconnected text-book way. Here you are working through all of this while it is so personal and so close to you. I'm sure if this was any sort of official study, you would not be allowed to participate due to the emotional bias which is expected.

Yet here you are, overcoming all of that and showing a thoroughly impressive understanding of everything and everyone involved. I am also quite impressed by the improvement I see in your other posts around the forum here. You have come so far! Congratulations on your hard work. I hope you are enjoying the results.  :applause:

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 28, 2021, 02:44:30 PM
Bee, thank you for the kindness and for pointing out the behavior comes from a place of weakness and not having much to do with me at all. You are absolutely correct and I've always known her behavior isn't intended to be cruel, it's just her need to protect herself from hurt and abandonment is so great as to blur out everything else, including an ability to be empathetic with her own children. It is a new thing for me to "try on" viewing her behavior as cruel instead of excusing it due to mental illness and her own needs being so deep. But what that did was kept me tied to her and the poor treatment and blaming myself. I'm trying to find my way to the balanced view and am a little on the side of blaming and anger right now. I'll get to the middle soon enough I hope. But feeling anger at her treatment of me and my sis has allowed me to stop harming myself physically and emotionally because I was absorbing it all myself. So right now I kind of need to see it as mean and cruel. But you are 100000000% right and I know that without a doubt.

NotAlone - thank you for your empathy and affirmation.

<3 Jazzy
I like the way you've been including a heart so now you will not just be Jazzy, but <3 Jazzy Thank you for the compliment. That is kind because I think you might remember one of my core beliefs is that I am stupid and tricking people unintentionally that I am not. I also have become very good at predicting her cycle to be prepared for it...armored...like Bee said and that's been important too in learning to be kind to myself...being able to see it coming 1000 miles away I can be more certain it isn't my fault. At the same time the intellectual understanding is an intentional wall. I still haven't cried visible tears. Though I have gone from "my eyes are stinging but I don't feel sad" to "I feel sad and my eyes feel watery" so I know I am getting there.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on June 28, 2021, 03:52:20 PM
Quotefeeling anger at her treatment of me and my sis has allowed me to stop harming myself physically and emotionally because I was absorbing it all myself. So right now I kind of need to see it as mean and cruel.

:thumbup:  IMO it's essential that we allow our protective/guardian part to rise up and feel the anger over being abused/traumatized because for most of us it got squashed, shoved deep down so we could survive. We need it though, everyone does, it's healthy (when it's regulated) and allows us to protect ourselves.  As you say Armadillo since you allowed yourself to feel the anger you've stopped hurting/blaming yourself. 

There's time enough to understand, have compassion/understanding for those who abused us IMO, first we have to (re)ignite and develop our protective parts to stop blaming/shaming/hurting ourselves.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 28, 2021, 04:31:31 PM
Thank you, Kizzie. This (your response) makes me feel protected by a nice mama bear presence.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Libby183 on June 28, 2021, 06:14:56 PM
Hi Armadillo.

I really do feel for you, dealing as you are with your mother. It brings back many memories of my H. They both seem to have huge difficulties in accepting care, even when they need it, and especially receiving care from us. Your story about the bird feeders was so interesting. It was when my H was ill that I could really see his personality. Am I right, maybe, in thinking that you have experienced this?

It actually helps to see them how they are, deep down. But it is still so sad.

Keep strong. You seem to be coping with all of this with great fortitude.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 29, 2021, 02:00:08 AM
Quote from: Armadillo... so I know I am getting there

Absolutely; you're doing great! :thumbup:

<3 Jazzy

P.S. I'm relieved and encouraged to hear you like the heart. It was extremely challenging for me to start using that, especially with the whole "gotta be a tough guy thing" I've been taught my whole life.

Thank you so much for expressing that!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 29, 2021, 04:05:08 PM
I <3 the <3. It suits you well.

In good news.  I had to find a new hair cutter. Well I didn't have to but it became painful to keep going to the same person because a long time ago my mom asked who I go to so I told her and now she goes to the same person. And then when I go to him he tells me about how he just saw my mom and how funny she is and she shares a lot doesn't she and she was telling me about her cute neighbor kid etc. It just got too painful to hear because she is so closed off and private with us, and because she replaced having a relationship with us with casual relationships with her neighbors and her neighbors kids, rather than her own grandkids. Anyway...too painful to go and hear this stuff and it made me feel very guarded.

So I went to a guy who has been cutting my son's hair and it turned out super super cute. It's short (it had been since I cut it myself during covid) and he cut in these thick bangs and my hair is wavy so the bangs kind of bounce and curl up all awkward and uneven and it suits me well. Kind of a '70s look. Plus I think it looks nice with the grays I have. So I am happy with my cute haircut.

Also I went to a makeup store this weekend and I normally avoid the sales people offering to help but this time I accepted help and admitted I had no idea what shade to get for an eyebrow pencil and didn't even know how to get the shapes to match each other. And she hooked me up with a blond!!!!! pencil saying it would look more natural with the grays. (I have very dark brown hair...or....had....now it's probably 40% silver gray). But that looks really good too (the blond pencil).

And I've gotten a lot of compliments this week on my gray hair so I'm feeling pretty good and cute. In a frumpy kind of way, Lol.😃

Also I went for a really nice run this weekend with my friend on the trails. Lots of steep hills so even when walking it was a very good workout. It was my first time running in 3 weeks. My body periodically breaks down...some combo of stress plus hormones gets me...and causes bad physical pain and then I get out of shape and have to start from 0 again. It's frustrating but at least I got back out as soon as I felt better. Often it takes a couple weeks to realize I feel well enough to run again and then the cycle repeats pretty soon after.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on June 29, 2021, 04:24:13 PM
Quoteit became painful to keep going to the same person because a long time ago my mom asked who I go to so I told her and now she goes to the same person. And then when I go to him he tells me about how he just saw my mom and how funny she is and she shares a lot doesn't she and she was telling me about her cute neighbor kid etc. It just got too painful to hear because she is so closed off and private with us, and because she replaced having a relationship with us with casual relationships with her neighbors and her neighbors kids, rather than her own grandkids. Anyway...too painful to go and hear this stuff and it made me feel very guarded.

Oh yuk, no kidding that would be triggering and painful. My M used to do things like this and it felt like she would constantly steal anything good I/we had for herself - hobbies, clothes, people, you name it. If it was people they would rave over what a wonderful person she was and how lucky I was to have her. I hated it because it was not at all the mother we got at home.

In this case it worked out well in the sense that you have a cute haircut you really like but still ...  :pissed:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: laurels on June 29, 2021, 04:37:31 PM
Ahh congrats on the new look, Armadillo! I'm happy you took the step to change your hairdresser, eliminating the risk and stress of having to listen about painful things. Very responsible and self-caring. And yay for trying out the sales' people's help. I'm still not up to date with everything so I don't know if that's something that you'd normally struggle with, but I know it's something I would find very intimidating and stressful, so it's still impressive to me. And it turned out great for you!

I hope you can figure out a way to exercise that makes you happy and doesn't include the physical break down.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 29, 2021, 04:48:23 PM
I haven't talked about it here cause I'm so overwhelmed by my mom's dramas and dealing with getting over my bigger trauma. But yeah I take one step in a store and if a sales person comes at me asking if I need any help I spin around and high tail it out of there immediately. I think I feel very self conscious about some flaws and worry that like my feet smell bad and stuff so I don't want them near me to see/smell my flaws? It's fairly buried for me. But I think that's what's driving that behavior. God it feels weird to write that down.

But yeah, I seem to have some body dysmorphia and I haven't even been able to talk to my therapist about it. Well once, I disclosed to him that that was why I wouldn't tell him what my form of self harm was, because that would require disclosing the flaw. And he sent me some assessment for BDD (I did the assessment, it was severe) and he offered we could work on it and i massively freaked out. I'll work on it with him when I'm all better and solved it on my own, lol.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on June 29, 2021, 06:19:04 PM
I appreciate you sharing your journey of exploring body dysmorphia.  I think I experience this too and haven't ever called it that.  As I reflect on the way I see my body and on experiences that I've had with my parents that have led to the way I see my body, body dysmorphia seems part of my story too.  I can relate to what a sensitive topic it is - we can't get away from our bodies.  I hope that you find ways to explore and find ease in your body. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: CactusFlower on June 29, 2021, 06:57:10 PM
Thank you for sharing that, it makes a lot of sense. We're the ones inhabiting these suits and sometimes they don't fit right, or we don't see them like they are. I read back a little bit and how cool it was that someone helped you pick an eyebrow pencil you wouldn't have tried otherwise! I pencil mine in when going out and some of the best advice I ever heard was on a youtuber (she did them because of alopecia) about symmetry. (my one eye is slightly higher than the other) She said "They don't have to be twins, just sisters."  That made me laugh and loosen up just a little about how I drew them. No one has ever commented negatively on them, so they must be good enough! :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on June 30, 2021, 04:27:10 PM
Since I started limiting my contact with my mom, my brain is starting to work in ways it never worked before. This is exciting but makes me feel really sad too. I am dissociating much less frequently and severely. And I've written before about how I gained depth perception about a month ago, and I am getting flashes of images now too, when my brain is otherwise occupied. I still can't willingly call up an image but I think that may come, eventually.

I also have written about how I have struggled with constantly getting lost even going places I go frequently. What happens is I can't "see ahead" mentally, or really even recognize landmarks. So it isn't until I get to a turn that I am supposed to take that I recognize "oh! Is this where I'm supposed to turn?" And turn (or miss it) and so on until I find my way but it is always uncertain like looking behind closed doors...is this it? What happens if I turn here? Oh! Look there's the grocery store! Yay! I made it!!! Even when I use GPS it's pretty hit or miss. I haven't understood that this may be different than how others navigate and always just feel/felt so stupid or spacey for getting lost and feeling so disoriented.

But this past weekend I was driving somewhere and started my usual panic...ack I don't know how to get there! I then told myself my usual mantra...I'll probably recognize the right roads when I get to them. And if not, no biggie I'll turn around and figure it out eventually.

And then I was just about to turn on gps just for backup when my brain flashed me a friggin roadmap of how to get to my destination!!!! It was just this split second series of specific roads/turns and then I knew that I knew how to get there, ahead of time...first I'm going on this on ramp to the right, next merging on this freeway to the right, then staying left, then getting off here then turning left.

It was amazing and I think maybe this is how others get around so easy is they can imagine the route in their head without much effort? But I just felt so calm knowing ahead of time where I was going.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on June 30, 2021, 04:36:08 PM
Armadillo, I appreciate you sharing these reflections.  They resonate with me too.  Our brains are amazing and I'm glad for them to use more of their capability and capacity instead of only trying to keep us safe.  I especially appreciate your reflections on navigation.  I face a similar experience and hadn't really identified it in the way you describe.  I often feel incredibly disoriented and not confident in finding my way around.  I will think on this some more, but am glad you shared about it. 

I wish you well as you continue to explore.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: laurels on June 30, 2021, 04:46:46 PM
That's amazing, Armadillo, I'm happy you're gaining/re-gaining some functions that help you feel confident!

I'm wondering if this is the source of my own problems navigating... I'm notoriously terrible at it. But there is definitely something to say for removing a major stressor and how that improves our performance and quality of life. I had such a burst of creativity, insight, healing progress etc when I moved out of my hometown, where so many places had bad memories attached to them. They kept me down. I'm excited for what else you'll discover you're able to do! (And for myself too, now that I've moved countries, from one of the most homophobic ones, to one of the most open and accepting ones). Let's go!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on June 30, 2021, 11:01:30 PM
Armadillo,

You will be relieved to know it is possible to recoup your spatial memory, navigational skills and a lot more too. I know because I did it! Some years ago, I consulted 6 (count 'em 6) neurologists to determine if I truly had "mild cognitive impairment." I feared early Alzheimer's.  It wasn't until the last one that everything came to a screeching (diagnostic) halt, and I was blessed with severe depression. Lots of time release RX, and not too much later, all my faculties started coming back. I too got lost going places I've been to for decades. I lost 80 pounds and if you asked me if I was depressed, I would have said no. That's not to say you are, but sometimes hiding from ourselves takes us places we don't wanna go!

It won't happen miraculously, overnight or even in a straight upward line. It will happen and the way I know is that you found your way without a map to your safe place (many posts back). Allow yourself to hope. I also dissociated so often I thought it was normal, eventually, that will improve as well. The energy freed up from guarding and protecting yourself is just ready to help you bloom and blossom.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on June 30, 2021, 11:30:12 PM
Armadillo,

I'm very cautious about what and how much I say right now, but I am so very pleased to hear this, especially about the map in your head. As I understand it, that is your sub-conscious mind at work.

I find those experiences to be so wonderful, especially after they have been stolen away from me by trauma for so long.

Your post here brought good tears to my eyes. Thank you so much for sharing!  :hug:

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 01, 2021, 05:27:49 AM
<3 Jazzy

I'm sorry you have been made to feel cautious about what you share. As long as your intention is good you don't have to be cautious here in my journal. If you would prefer I can tell you if something has been hurtful or unwelcome that way you don't have to doubt yourself.

Thank you for your enthusiasm about my mental improvements. I can tell you get it by how you express your feelings about your own physical changes too.

Bee
Thank you for reassurance and sharing your experience about regaining navigation and visual/spatial skills with the right mental health treatment. I'm sorry you suffered in the dark so long. I absolutely had no clue I was depressed and anxious. So dissociated. So numb and clueless. I love the image of being ready to bloom and blossom. 💕 you give out such warm wisdom.

Laurels I'm so glad you found such peace and creativity moving and hope your latest move is even better. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your poems once you get them posted.

Rainy
It's interesting so many of us share this navigation difficulty! Thanks for sharing in my excitement. I never would have described it this way until having the experience of what it's like to have a more normal seeming experience. I just would have said I'm spacey and get lost easily or have no sense of direction.  It's only having a normal experience to compare to that I can describe it.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 01, 2021, 06:16:57 AM
I don't have the energy to go into it but I tried again with my mom to do the right thing but also to protect myself and fell flat on my face again. I've tried everything and nothing nothing nothing is ok and I'm not ok with that. I ended up on the phone with my T in my car tonight sobbing. So that's one positive. Tears, check! I can actually make them! But yeah...really dissociated and I've been so much better lately. As T put it, this is the cost of trying to have any relationship, any interaction with her. I can't. I can't have a relationship. I can't abandon her. I can't do boundaries. It all just fails and I just feel mean no matter what.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: laurels on July 01, 2021, 10:07:53 AM
I'm sorry you're feeling so terrible, it sounds like a really tough night. I don't have anything helpful to say about navigating your relationship with your mom, but I know you're not mean. You're kind and considerate and trying your best to heal and grow, which can't be said for everyone involved. It's a lot of work. I hope things look calmer and clearer in the morning. You said you've been better lately and this event doesn't undo all that. I'm hopeful you'll find your new equilibrium soon enough.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on July 01, 2021, 11:31:11 AM
Armadillo, that sounds like such a difficult day.  I am thinking of you. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on July 01, 2021, 04:10:39 PM
Oh my dear Armadillo, I am so sorry this has happened. I can't abandon my M either so I've had to take a lot of the tools and strategies at our sister site Out of the Fog to deal with the situation. They do help as does talking with others who truly get your M's kind of behav.   

:hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 02, 2021, 01:51:17 AM
Armadillo,

I'm sorry you are feeling hurt, discouraged, overwhelmed, that you have failed, and likely more. Those feelings are so powerful, and I can see in your words that they are impacting you deeply. I understand those feelings, and I wish you peace when you have finished processing them.

I'm encouraged that throughout the hopelessness, I see positivity breaking through in your writing as well. I am glad you were sobbing tonight. I remember you have mentioned your past inability to cry numerous times, this must be so important to you! What a tremendous leap forward! No wonder it is difficult and mixed with so many negative feelings and dissociation. :)

I understand that you feel mean no matter what you do. I wish I knew of an easy answer to change that, but unfortunately I do not. I do not know much about your mother, but from what you have written in your journal, it sounds like that is the primary tool she uses to manipulate you. If I recall correctly, it is you who made this realization previously.

There is a lot of power in that realization. You have done very well holding off your mother's assaults with it so far. I am confident you will continue to defend yourself well in the future, when you are feeling less overwhelmed. It is totally understandable and okay for you to be feeling this way, and focusing on those feelings instead of defending against your mother's assaults. I do that sometimes too, I'm sure we all do.

While the focus here is not about me, I currently have no contact at all with my mother for the first time in my life. I wish it were not necessary, but it is. I thank you for that, as the primary motivation and example showing me the way.

I know what you mean about not having the energy to go in to details right now. I have been like that numerous times myself over the last couple of days. When you are ready, I am interested to hear what happened, if you feel comfortable sharing. I am quite sure that you have not failed, or at least not nearly so bad as you currently believe. Trauma has a way of forcing us in to extreme thinking like that, at least it does for me. Things always look better to me after some time working on improving my mood though. I hope the same holds true for you; I expect it will.

I see a lot of things you can't do right now, and that's totally fine. I'm sure you will be able to do what you need to do, when you are ready. :)

All the best to you as you go through this difficult struggle of processing and rebuilding your mental state and defenses. We're here for you! :hug:

Addendum: If you would like to send me a private message about this, or anything, please feel free to do so. I find messages easier to spot, which helps me with replying in a timely manner. There's also no pressure intended of course. I prefer you do whatever is best for yourself. :)

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 02, 2021, 01:56:58 AM
For when the time is right:

Quote from: ArmadilloI'm sorry you have been made to feel cautious about what you share. As long as your intention is good you don't have to be cautious here in my journal. If you would prefer I can tell you if something has been hurtful or unwelcome that way you don't have to doubt yourself.

Thank you for your enthusiasm about my mental improvements. I can tell you get it by how you express your feelings about your own physical changes too.

Thank you! I do prefer it for you to gently tell me that when you can. :)

You're welcome. I'm so happy to hear it, and am looking forward to hearing more instances like this! The power of the mind, especially when healing, is such an amazing topic to me. :thumbup:

I've said so many times about how my sub-conscious mind is "smarter" than my logical mind. I'm happy that you have an example in your own life of what I mean. It's one thing to be able to talk about it, but for both of us to have an experience like that is a different level of understanding entirely. :)

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 02, 2021, 07:53:43 AM
Thank you for the understanding and support today everyone. I really appreciated how you all in your own ways reassured me it was ok to feel this way and it was temporary. That really helped while I waited to rebound.

This is obnoxiously long and self indulgent and you do not need to feel obligated to read or respond any further...I'm just writing this for me

That's a trigger for you, eh? Something relatively small throws you all out of whack. I had tried to venture out and offer again to help if she needed it and to let her know I was thinking about her before her appointments, but at the same time I tried to lay down my boundary when I offered. I didn't mean it unkindly but it was worded unkindly and controllingly (I'm happy to do x but I need you to tell me what you want clearly and specifically. And then I gave the reason why being that I had wasted time and money and food in the past because she didn't want the food I prepared.)

I should have done it differently.  Should have just offered. She just responded very matter of fact. She was fine. She didn't need any help. She hoped her appointments would be short. She had always eaten my food in the past it has always been good.

So anyway, I felt like I should have done it different but I also know I've always done it differently, kindly, and it always ends up bad no matter what I do. So i just kept trying to figure out...well if I did this, this would happen because that's how it has been, and if this then that, and this and this and this. All paths end with me being hurt and feeling mean.

But I think some of what my therapist said on the phone really helped while I slept, especially when he made the point that my mom has had her 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s to try to fix things but she chose not to and that is her choice. He also pointed out how I am not allowed to make mistakes but she has made thousands in our relationship,  so there was a big (self) forgiveness piece there too in our conversation. Anyway I woke up feeling less trapped and stuck and a little bit angry at her (which is good, for me). I was able to stay pretty regulated through the day.

And then in the evening...I'm assuming all of you have these intrusive negative thoughts about yourself? Not the ones where you consciously think "I'm bad* or "I'm worthless" or whatever, but the ones where your brain is telling you things and you aren't thinking them at all and maybe don't even believe them? Well the past couple months I noticed that voice/thoughts were pretty silent. This evening though the voice was back with intrusive thoughts that come on their own except it was a positive voice, not a negative one! It told me "you're not mean. That's stupid!" There was also a bit of backlash to that but shortlived. This positive voice seems like the surest sign of healing yet.

The rest of this is just a rant, no one has to read this.

****Tw****physical punishment, food

<3 Jazzy's post in their journal made me start thinking about food issues.

How some of my hurt toward my mom right now centers around her rude behaviors around meal deliveries for her. How resentful I feel when she is rude about this stuff and all the effort I put into feeding her, because she was not caring toward us with food as kids and adults.

When I had my second baby she acted wounded when she found out our friend had delivered a meal. She pouted "what? K brought you a meal? But I haven't even brought you a meal and I'm your mother!" (She never brought me a meal).

One year for my birthday...18 or 19... she offered to make me whatever I wanted to eat for a birthday dinner. I asked for pot roast. She responded "I don't like pot roast I'm not making that."

For awhile before she got sick we were having dinner at each other's homes about once a week  so she could see the grandkids. We made a deal that when we were the host we would clean the dishes too that way the guest could just rest and enjoy a night off. As soon as that happened she stopped inviting us to her house and just came to ours for dinners.

As a teen there was rarely food in the house. I often lived on a weird diet of raw potatoes and apples I'd get at the produce store on my school lunch break.

As a kid she worked late till 7 or 730 much of the year. We'd be really hungry and when she came home we'd  say "mom...we're hungry...when's dinner?" And she would scream and curse about how she just got home from work and couldn't she just relax for 5 minutes? Sorry mom. :(

As kids, I wrote in <3 Jazzy's journal that my stepdad was vegetarian and my mom would make awful vegetarian meals that made us physically gag. But we were forced to eat it all, or it would be breakfast, lunch dinner, until we ate all that was served or it went moldy. We had tricks to hide most of our food but then would be hungry and ate toothpaste. One night I had stomach flu and was ecstatic that I didn't have to eat dinner.

My sister told me this story recently, I don't remember it but I remember the spot on the wall. We weren't allowed to have much sweets but I guess there was a point in time we were allowed to have 2 cookies if we ate our dinner. But one night maybe i hadn't eaten enough so my stepdad wouldn't give me the 2 cookies. My sister was indignant on my behalf and called him a barf bag. He apparently picked her up by the neck as a scrawny 9 yr old and slammed her into the wall in a chokehold and screamed at her.

She also remembers our mom burning a grilled cheese for dinner and throwing it across the room screaming about how she could never * do anything right * * it.

I remember the fight mom and stepdad had the day before Easter because my stepdad didn't dye the eggs with us or boil them and my mom came home in a rage and started throwing all the eggs. I don't remember where I was or what I was doing but my sister remembers hiding under her desk (they were throwing other things at each other too and spitting and swearing) and stabbing her legs with scissors.

I think there was another fight too around xmas time when we were staying at my grandma's and my mom got mad at her for giving us a treat. I'm not sure what happened but there was a lot of screaming and this may be a different time but i remember my docile aunt screaming at her "You deserve to go to jail for what you are doing to those girls."

Anyway, sorry for the trip down memory lane if you read that. A lot of what's happening now with my mom are about food.

She wants me to make a 1 hr round trip for 3 things at the store she has already said she can order, she asks me to purchase and prepare her ingredients to make a dish over and over and over and then I find 5 bags of my careful labor stashed in the freezer never eaten while she asks for the same thing again.

I stay up till 2 am to make her something flipping delicious and she says she won't even try it because she doesn't like x ingredient. So then I beat myself up for not making her something I know for sure she likes.

I bring her the homecooked meals she does like, the expensive take out, maneuvering around the indirect asks like "you can bring me x, if you want" instead of saying "i would love it if you would bring x." Then she goes on and on and on about the one meal her neighbor brought 3 months ago, bringing it up everytime I see her, raving to her sister and my sister about it, all while never acknowledging the 3 meals a week I was bringing from an hour away. They didn't even know i was bringing her food and groceries but they knew every act of kindness from the neighbors, heard about the same act over and over for months.

I don't want to seem petty. These are the minor annoyances, not the main thing. I can overlook that stuff. It's my raw trauma reactions to the flaunted self-neglect and the intentional lies and manipulations that pull me away from my own family that really get me messed up.

Thoughts: she doesn't care about me, at all. She doesn't care about her grandkids. She's going to get hurt or die or she's going to hurt someone, I have to fix this or it'll be all my fault.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on July 02, 2021, 11:01:18 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on July 02, 2021, 07:53:43 AM
I don't want to seem petty. These are the minor annoyances, not the main thing. I can overlook that stuff. It's my raw trauma reactions to the flaunted self-neglect and the intentional lies and manipulations that pull me away from my own family that really get me messed up.

Not minor at all. I have tears in my eyes---now I can't see. What your sister and you endured was horrendous. Your aunt was correct, she did deserve to go to jail. Horrendous.

Quote from: Armadillo on July 02, 2021, 07:53:43 AM
She's going to get hurt or die or she's going to hurt someone, I have to fix this or it'll be all my fault.
Your mom is responsible for herself and her actions. Not your fault at all.

Quote from: Armadillo on July 02, 2021, 07:53:43 AM
But I think some of what my therapist said on the phone really helped while I slept, especially when he made the point that my mom has had her 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s to try to fix things but she chose not to and that is her choice. He also pointed out how I am not allowed to make mistakes but she has made thousands in our relationship,  so there was a big (self) forgiveness piece there too in our conversation. Anyway I woke up feeling less trapped and stuck and a little bit angry at her (which is good, for me). I was able to stay pretty regulated through the day.

Read this as much as you need to. Your T was right.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 03, 2021, 01:34:33 AM
 Armadillo  :hug:

I read your entire post, as it, and you, are very important to me. However as you said, you are writing it for yourself. Out of respect for that, I will keep my reply brief.

I'm very glad to see you are remembering and processing these things. They strike me as very important as well as terribly hurtful and damaging. I'm glad to see you making such progress, though I wish it came with less of a price.

You have endured so much though, and I'm confident you will endure healing from it as well.  :'( :)

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 03, 2021, 06:35:53 AM
 :hug:

Thank you both for reading and for the validation. It doesn't seem like much. Not ideal but not awful. Not Alone...your description of it as horrendous...it feels like I feel protected and seen as a little kid and also shocking to see you phrase it that way and gives me a lot to think about. Now I'm dissociating. But I think I'm learning a trick to slow it down. I'm experimenting. Kind of pushing my chest down. It makes my chest crack. But it seems to be helping. I tried it a few times today when I felt the fuzziness of dissociation start. I've tried deep breathing or relaxing my neck but those make it worse.

My aunt told me this morning that my mom's doctors have told her she is likely to die by the end of the year and also that they had to pause chemo again due to side effects. I had some guilt today but was able mostly to see the truth that I don't know what she wants and so there's really nothing for me to do or fix right now.

My son came to me last night crying because he had an episode of sleep paralysis about a week ago and it scared him so much he can't fall asleep anymore. That scared me because i wonder if he is ok. But I'm glad he told me and I had him watch something funny with me before bed and he let me sit on the edge of his bed while he fell asleep tonight. I worry so much about the mental health legacy on so many sides of the family. I hope he is ok. I'm reminding myself he knows we will help him get help whenever he needs it.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Libby183 on July 03, 2021, 08:44:48 AM
Hi Armadillo.

Having just caught up with your journal, I wanted to say say how sad I am to read about all you suffered as a child, and how this is impacting on you today, as you deal with the situation with your mother.

I am with you, in spirit, all of the way.

I think almost all of us here have experienced the pain in our families of origin around food. I know I certainly did. And the tendency for our difficult /abusive family members to focus so much on neighbours etc. My in laws were big on this. And the body dysmorhia. Another strong feature for me too. Such strong patterns everywhere.

I still think you are doing exceptionally well in coping with one of the most difficult and traumatic parts of life. As I know, it's all a no win situation, so we have to do what's best for us.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 03, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Thank you Libby, for reading, for the empathy and understanding. I want you to feel free now. It feels not fair you are still suffering. That somehow your H's mental illness is still impacting you through your kids and the impact he has on them. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it go away for you. 💕
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on July 03, 2021, 06:35:09 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on July 03, 2021, 06:35:53 AM
I had some guilt today but was able mostly to see the truth that I don't know what she wants and so there's really nothing for me to do or fix right now.

My son came to me last night crying because he had an episode of sleep paralysis about a week ago and it scared him so much he can't fall asleep anymore. That scared me because i wonder if he is ok. But I'm glad he told me and I had him watch something funny with me before bed and he let me sit on the edge of his bed while he fell asleep tonight. I worry so much about the mental health legacy on so many sides of the family. I hope he is ok. I'm reminding myself he knows we will help him get help whenever he needs it.

There really is nothing for you to do for your mom. She has closed the door.

I'm glad your son shared with you what was happening. I share your concern about mental health legacy on my kids. I've told them that the family they grew up in was the only family that they know and that is what is normal to them. But there are issues that it would be helpful to look at. So far they either don't see it or don't want to look further.

The image of you sitting by your son's be while he fell asleep is beautiful.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 04, 2021, 02:55:08 PM
Hey Armadillo,

QuoteI'm reminding myself he knows we will help him get help whenever he needs it.
This is the most important message you can give him. Sleep paralysis is indeed scary stuff. Being a safe harbor is the key to allowing him to process and grow. The advantages? Lifelong resiliency.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Alter-eg0 on July 04, 2021, 07:00:13 PM
Hey Armadillo,

I feel for you and your concerns regarding your son. I hope it comforts you to know that you're doing the best you can, and the fact alone that you are there for him and open to listen and get help for him when he needs it, is already huge. The fact that he opens up to you, is also really really valuable and a good sign. That kind of trust is everything.

Take care!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 04, 2021, 08:28:45 PM
I'm really sad. It's been probably 2 months since I've had a nightmare and I had a terrible dream about my son last night. It was so awful I don't want to even talk about it here or anywhere. It felt so real that it took awhile after waking to realize it was not.

Also just still really struggling with mom stuff. Still I'm less mean to myself but I see how much this game has been being played. We are forced to conform to exactly what she needs and how she needs it but nothing is straightforward. And when we crack because we are human we are exiled as all bad. It's so hard to deal with even as an adult with distance and clarity that I can't even fathom how...as little kids...with this our sole caretaker (after stepdad moved out when I was 8).
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on July 04, 2021, 08:28:52 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on July 03, 2021, 06:35:53 AM
I... was able mostly to see the truth that I don't know what she wants and so there's really nothing for me to do or fix right now.

:yeahthat:

I have been reading your Journal and about how you're dealing with your M. Even though I might not have commented so far, I've been with you in spirit.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on July 04, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on July 04, 2021, 08:28:45 PM
I'm really sad. It's been probably 2 months since I've had a nightmare and I had a terrible dream about my son last night. It was so awful I don't want to even talk about it here or anywhere. It felt so real that it took awhile after waking to realize it was not.

Also just still really struggling with mom stuff.

Sorry I didn't check and see all that additional difficult stuff from rn and ended up cross-posting.

So  :bighug: :bighug:  :grouphug:
Good on you for being less mean to yourself :applause: I think that's a big step.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 05, 2021, 02:14:40 AM
I'm sorry things are so challenging right now Armadillo.

Having a time frame like that hits me hard, I can't even imagine how you must be feeling. Having to stop chemo because of the side effects hits me even harder.

There's much more I would like to say, but I don't have the words right now. I offer you a gently firm  :hug: in their place.

Your son's sleep paralysis strikes me very personally, as I have been through that countless times. I am so very glad to hear you are taking action to help him. While this may sound strange, I'm also not unhappy you had a bad dream about it. This tells me how important not only your son, but ending the cycle of your mother's insanity is to you. (Yes, that's a powerful word. I believe it fits. It certainly fits my own mother, as well as myself in the past).

I see you continue to overcome all of these difficulties and grow in spite of them. You are an inspiration to us all.

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 06, 2021, 12:39:05 AM
Thanks BB and Jazzy, and everyone else.

I feel like a broken record here, in therapy, and in my head. The pain and anger and sadness of being split all bad and not viewed as a whole person by a parent with a personality disorder. The disappointment that she won't ask to see the grandkids or attempt to connect with them...I ended up crying in bed last night with real tears rolling down my cheek. That's good. The emotions are finally starting to come up.

She called me this weekend to tell me the doctors agree just a matter of months. I offer to help but she takes pleasure in rejecting it. I'm expecting at some point soon I'll have to talk with the palliative care doc at some point soon about caretaking which will be a massively damaging conversation for me.

This whole situation is just so painful and so antithetical to my values.

In other news I went for a walk with an old friend and our fridge has been busted for a week with a backlog on new fridges, so now we are living out of a little cooler for our family of 4, lol.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 06, 2021, 01:05:04 AM
I think it is very good that you recognize in advance how difficult that conversation will be. This allows you to prepare yourself going in to it, as well as set things up to help you de-brief after it is over. Of course, this is your choice to do these things or not, as well as the details of what they are for you.

:hug:

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on July 06, 2021, 09:08:23 PM
Armadillo,
Thawing is good! It's awful that she won't see her grandchildren but may be for the best in the long run. I wish the best for you.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on July 06, 2021, 10:46:46 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on July 06, 2021, 12:39:05 AM
I feel like a broken record here, in therapy, and in my head. The pain and anger and sadness of being split all bad and not viewed as a whole person by a parent with a personality disorder. The disappointment that she won't ask to see the grandkids or attempt to connect with them...I ended up crying in bed last night with real tears rolling down my cheek. That's good. The emotions are finally starting to come up.

Write here as much as you need about your pain and anger and sadness. As I think san wisely told me a couple of years ago, it's good to get the poison of these emotions out. This is a great place to do that, with no thought to 'being repetitious' or anything like that.

It certainly sounds good that the emotions are starting to come up. ime they ease the build-up of pain, anger, sadness after a while.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 07, 2021, 03:44:23 PM
I'm exhausted though I've been sleeping better for a good long stretch. I think the weariness of trying to manage eldercare, working through trauma, career, home, and then the 1.5 years of school closures with the kids home 24/7. It's been an exhausting time and I feel that I don't have the energy stores for whatever comes next. I keep feeling like I want to just quit my job and focus on my kids just so I won't feel so worn thin. But then lots of people have kids and a job, even single parents. And my job is not nearly as stressful as most.

I also wonder....for those of you who had been numb most your life.....when things start to thaw a bit do you go through depression first? I feel depressed.  Like the anxiety and something being really wrong has loosened...things are finally ok enough around me, and I've let go of control with trying to make things ok with my mom...and where that anxiety and stress lived now it's just...blah. I hope it is short-lived. I spent too much time feeling overwhelmed and stunned numb I can't quite tolerate the thought that I might have to next travel through depression too?
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on July 07, 2021, 03:57:10 PM
Quote from: Armadillo on July 07, 2021, 03:44:23 PM
I'm exhausted though I've been sleeping better for a good long stretch. I think the weariness of trying to manage eldercare, working through trauma, career, home, and then the 1.5 years of school closures with the kids home 24/7. It's been an exhausting time and I feel that I don't have the energy stores for whatever comes next. I keep feeling like I want to just quit my job and focus on my kids just so I won't feel so worn thin. But then lots of people have kids and a job, even single parents. And my job is not nearly as stressful as most.

I also wonder....for those of you who had been numb most your life.....when things start to thaw a bit do you go through depression first? I feel depressed.  Like the anxiety and something being really wrong has loosened...things are finally ok enough around me, and I've let go of control with trying to make things ok with my mom...and where that anxiety and stress lived now it's just...blah. I hope it is short-lived. I spent too much time feeling overwhelmed and stunned numb I can't quite tolerate the thought that I might have to next travel through depression too?
Yes! Depression is normal, it takes a bit to work through. I've found it's often hiding emotional flashbacks so going slow and finding safe places is crucial. It's like, "why did I have to be numb and other people didn't?" sometimes. I hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: HomerJ on July 07, 2021, 06:13:58 PM
As the years have gone by I definitely have experienced more depression as I try not to numb everything. It's frustrating

It sounds like you have a lot going on so it's normal for you to be exhausted by it, I have a lot less happening, and often I struggle to get half a day's work done. You are doing what you can and that's great.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 08, 2021, 03:00:51 AM
I'm sorry you're feeling exhausted and depressed  Armadillo. I understand these feelings.  :hug:

Your words here are very wise. I think it is a good idea for you to take some time to rest and recovery yourself. Feeling that you don't have the energy stores for what comes next is a very important indicator to me that you are severely lacking in rest and peace.

If you feel like you want to quit your job, then perhaps you should. I realize that is a very large and complex topic. That is fully your decision to make. In my experience, quitting my job was one of the best choices I've ever made. Over 10 years later I am beginning to work again. I am only able to do this because I took time to work on myself.

Sure, lots of people have kids and jobs, maybe more stressful jobs than you, though I doubt this is as true as you think. They are not dealing with the other things that you are though, and they do not have your traumatic history. Even if there is somehow one person out there who does match you, what you should do is likely not the same as what they are doing.

Yes, I have gone through a lot of depression. All the emotions and feelings quickly become overwhelming, and depression is a defense against that. While it is frustrating at times, I see defenses as a good thing. I do my best not to need them, but when I do, I work towards finding peace so they can come down again.

Depression may be the next step in your journey. I wish I could tell you otherwise, as it is a difficult phase. However it is progress. You're doing great! Keep your chin comfortably up and carry on as best as you can. We're here for you when you need us.  :hug:

<3 Jazzy
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 08, 2021, 03:17:06 AM
I just realized there are less permanent options available than quitting your job. I don't know the legalities of where you live, but here we have an option called "stress leave". You fully deserve stress leave right now, especially as a surviving sufferer of Complex (not so) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I'm confident that you will find a good option that works for you! I hope you choose to act on the truths your body and mind are telling you. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 08, 2021, 04:15:16 AM
Ha! I absolutely LOVE the phrase complex (not so) post traumatic stress disorder. You're right. It's not post, yet.

Thanks for the empathetic and encouraging replies that are directing me toward acceptance that a depression phase may be in store and I guess that's natural. I did end up feeling some of that hurt that's been bottled up behind a wall of self-blame this weekend and this is the repercussion. With this disorder there's rarely progress without a price to pay. It's worthwhile but never without pain.

Quitting my job would be ridiculous on a lot of levels. I am part time but work much more than fulltime. I could cut back but I've tried and I don't have the will to do that. I could take the 5.5 weeks of vacation I have saved up but I'm uncertain about what I'll need for the immediate future. I could just take an unpaid leave of absence like you suggest which is certainly less of a financial hit than quitting.  Anyway there's no middle ground in my brain on this. That's the problem really.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 08, 2021, 04:19:52 AM
Quote from: ArmadilloAnyway there's no middle ground in my brain on this. That's the problem really.
Excellent point! I hope you act to resolve this problem when you are able. I'm sure you know how. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 10, 2021, 01:45:24 PM
Jazzy,

this name is truly inspired:
QuoteComplex (not so) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
:applause:

Armadillo,

You're doing very well, IMO. I want to affirm:

Yes, a thaw brings about recognition and depression.
Yes, it seems kind of bleak, but there is light eventually.
Yes, you can find a balance and it is "out there, but truly in you."

Depression can be a theme, phase or time period, but there are little tiny sparkles of hope and glimmers of faith in life's joy. They can be so small, it's easy to miss. But seeing and holding these close eventually build up your ability to anchor yourself to the "better" side of life.

I agree with previous friends, you are holding up well under the present challenges of life. This will not last forever, and you're learning new skills which WILL last. All my encouragement and best to you!   :hug:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 10, 2021, 05:39:06 PM
Thank you friends. And Bee, I like the name "Armee" you used. Less sheltered and guarded than Armadillo.  :hug:

I am feeling a lot better. Part of it I think was PMS and part of it is my brain trying t calibrate itself to letting things be and not trying to figure out what's wrong or how to fix things or what's next. That's a scary place to be because often when I've sighed a sigh of relief and let down my guard I've been knocked over by another huge wave.

But since my mom reemerged with the I'm dying stuff I've seen my brain go through this first trying to figure stuff out...what should I do, what am I doing wrong...to empty anxiety without purpose when my T convinces me to just let it be and not do or try to fix anything....to sadness and hurt about my relationship with her...to empty depression...to physical pain and dissociation again. It's just neuroplasticity at work. Growing pains and what not.

I agree 100% that I'm learning new skills that will outlast this phase of life. Phew. Although the past 4 months have been easier than any point in the last 4 years...these last 4 years have been so overwhelmingly hard and triggering. And yet every difficult thing has been an opportunity to heal and practice.

Thanks all  :grouphug:

I remember I was google searching something about elderly parents with BPD that brought up a post on out of the fog and then a kind soul directed me here when I posted in the welcome mat. What a gift to find you all.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 11, 2021, 02:36:20 AM
Hey Armi! 👋

I'm so happy to see the positivity in your post. I didn't even realize I've been holding this, but it's very relieving to see your mood improved.

I especially like how you are finding peace instead of trying to figure out all possible answers, which likelyWill never be needed anyway. Oh that's wonderful!

<3 Niko
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 11, 2021, 02:38:11 AM
I'm glad you liked "Armee", yes, less guarded and I thought of arms opened wide!  :bigwink:

I love hearing the beginning of how you found your way to the forum. Many miles ago....this has been such a helpful place to me because no one in my personal life would come close to "getting it."

It's ratty to be thrown into a tail chasing cycle that your Mother brought into your life. I know exactly what you are talking about. For those that "fix" even when we know we can't, that doesn't stop the churning & turning; the activation of those old patterns. I agree, the brain is trying to form new ways of wiring itself and it will. Growth is hard!

I'm encouraged to see that you consider the last 4 months to be "easier" that the last 4 years. That says a lot about your ability to embrace change and put your own care at the top of your priority list. Lock that thought in.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 11, 2021, 02:40:33 AM
Thank you for sharing Armadillo!

Reading your posts and responding to it let me to an important realization in my own life.

I'm so glad to have you and the others here to share with, especially regarding this topic.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Eidolon on July 11, 2021, 09:18:48 PM
Always happy to see you post, and am glad that you're here!
No matter the feelings you're experiencing, all of them are welcome.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armadillo on July 11, 2021, 11:49:40 PM
Thank you everyone as always for the kind words and support.

Just popping in to say I'll be on vacation with my family, camping for the week, so you won't hear from me but I'll be thinking of you all and hoping you are mostly head above water.

This will be a lovely week as I love my little family more than anything in the whole world and despite being home together for the past 1.5 yrs we have been busier than ever trying to manage work and home and kids so the quality time has suffered.

I'll be chewing on something over vacation though and if anyone has thoughts for me...advice even :gasp:...I'd love to hear it.

Yesterday my daughter dropped a hint that she wants to see Grandma. I've brought the kids by a couple times in february to see her. But it's now been at least 4 or more months since they've seen her. My mom asks me how they are doing over text but hasn't asked to see them since she's been home from the hospital. But if I tell her the kids want to stop by to see her she seems happy (happy by her standards). So there's some anger and disappointment there on my side.

But I don't want to keep them from her if they want to see her. Here's my conundrum: I shake, freeze, and go ice cold around her. It breaks my brain and body in significant ways. I wish I were not like this. I wish I could just be normal around her. Fake smile. Hi how are you. Lite conversations, but I physically cannot do that.

If I go there it's bad for me. If I go there and do my best I'll come across extremely cold and will leave feeling like a jerk who cannot even be nice for 5 minutes to her dying mother. If I send my husband instead I'll also feel like a mean cold jerk. If we go as a family and bring her dinner I'll feel the same and will be stuck for longer. (I feel like a trapped animal even after 2-5 minutes outside and far away). And leaving the kids there alone is absolutely not an option.

Help?

💛 Armee :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 12, 2021, 02:24:32 AM
<3 Armee

I absolutely love the heart and the name! That is so wonderful!  :cheer:

This is quite a conundrum indeed! It seems to be a "lesser of the (more than two) evils" situation.

Here is my advice, I.E. what I would do in your situation:

Sit down as peacefully as possible and consider all possible options, take them to those you trust for additional input, then sit down as peacefully as possibly to review them again, but not make a decision yet.

After enough time has passed that so you feel sufficiently less upset after reviewing such a difficult and triggering topic, consider one option, then note your immediate reaction to it.

Repeat this process until you have a "first impression" noted for each option, then rest/wait until you are calmer again.

As a final decision, I would go with whichever option has the least worst first impression attached to it, while ensuring I have an exit strategy in place for if I find I absolutely cannot handle it.

This topic is so difficult, compounded by the details of your mother's actions and the abuse and trauma she has put you through.

I'm sorry there is no easy win here. Whatever happens though, you've done so much better than anyone can fairly expect! You're the best! :hug:

...

How very interesting that I wrote more firmly telling you that you should review things and go with your sub-conscious, then so drastically switched to writing about what I would do if I were you when I wrote about the final decision. :bigthink:

I see that I have learned the important lesson of the power of making choices for ourselves... now I just need to learn to word my writing better. :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on July 12, 2021, 01:13:59 PM
Armadillo, I see you're on holiday but you've also left the forum. I hope you're OK?  :hug: :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Jazzy on July 12, 2021, 03:25:03 PM
Yes; I also noticed something happened with the account and I’m concerned. I hope everything is okay and Armadillo comes back when it is right.

Armadillo: I hope all goes well with your vacation and that it provides some peace.

We’re here for you as you need us, to the best of our abilities 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Kizzie on July 12, 2021, 04:32:29 PM
I saw that this morning too Armadillo. If you want some help reinstating your account let me know at OOTSManager@gmail.com. 

In the meantime have a great vacation!  :sunny:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on July 14, 2021, 06:51:30 PM
Hi Armee,
I hope you enjoy your vacation.  Hope you safely get back in the forum when you're back, and sending you a hug in the meantime.   :hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 18, 2021, 05:25:11 PM
Welcome back Armadillo, whenever you get here, I'm waiting!

FYI: We'll have to come up with an alternate spelling of "Armee" since there is a new member by that name July 17  :blink:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 18, 2021, 06:05:30 PM
I think that's me...I couldn't get Atmadillo reinstated. Thanks Bee.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 18, 2021, 06:52:36 PM
Oh! You Poor Thing! I actually thought of that, but then confusion reigned. Anyway, Hey Armee  :bighug:

So many questions, all none of my bees wax!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 18, 2021, 09:45:32 PM
i read about your rock and a hard place concerning a visit with your mother, and i truly feel for you.  i completely understand that feeling of wanting to fake it, wanting to just be ok with it, wanting options to be different than they are, etc.  it's a terrible place to be stuck in. 

my first thought was letting the kids go with your husband, but you addressed that, said it would make you feel like (basically) a bad daughter.  just a question about that, not one you need to answer or even think about if you don't want to - your children want to see their grandmother, she hasn't asked to see them, you don't want to be around her or have your kids be around her by themselves, right?  those last 2 points sound like self-care, and protection for both you and your children.  i don't see anything wrong or bad about self-care.  my thought about it, my opinion only.

the other thought revolved around her asking about them but no invitation for them to come see her.  that sounds to me like the lack of visitation is on her.  to your kids, maybe you could tell them that she's too sick for visitors, which is why none of you have visited lately.  don't know if that'll work, but it sounds like an option i would choose.

no matter which way you decide, she isn't going to change, and your feelings about being around her are valid.  i don't think we ever need to put ourselves in a frightening or threatening situation, no matter who is involved.  we do need to take care of ourselves the best we can, and there's nothing wrong about that.  best to you with this dilemma, armee.  (it's a cute nickname, and does sound softer to me than armadillo - as long as you're ok with it).  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 18, 2021, 10:55:25 PM
back again, just can't stay away today!

:yes: 
Quotei don't think we ever need to put ourselves in a frightening or threatening situation, no matter who is involved. 
:yes:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 19, 2021, 06:34:01 AM
Thank you BB, Kizzie, Jazzy, Hope, Bee, and San for your support,  concern, kind words, hugs, and requested advice.

I'm not sure what to say about what happened. I take a lot of ownership too and know that I was triggered and reacting from that fearful spot when I deleted my account. I am sorry for what happened. Kizzie, I appreciate so much the heart you put into tough moderating situations.

-------

I did end up going to my mom's house today. I spent a good couple hours in a therapy session with my T Friday working up to it. I knew that I WANT to behave kindly. I know that she triggers me badly and my freeze response kicks in and makes me cold as ice. So I'm trying to find ways to respond from what I want instead of how my body reacts.

For awhile my T had me doing an exercise of metta/kindness meditation with a circle of protectors: my husband, my aunt, my friend/substitute dad. Working up to wishing my mom well. At some point he asked me something and I had to remind him just as we were getting to my mom..."you know, I can't visualize  any of this right? I just get some physical sensations and hear your voice as you are saying this stuff?"

Hah he had forgotten. So then he made me pull up a photo of her to look at and jeez balls. Before long I was quite dissociated and accidentally made myself bleed. I also got quite creeped out when he moved my husband behind me in the imaginary meditation circle and couldn't relax until he was rotated to my side again. This stuff makes me quite upset, that I have these physical fears of someone who has never harmed me and never would and who I have been friends with for 30 years.  :Idunno: crazy amygdala.

But in the end we ended up with a plan that I'd have my husband go with me, as a protector. And my T said "and I can be there too, if you want." That gave me this nice feeling going into it that my T was behind me with a hand firmly on my shoulder, looking out for me to be ok, knowing he'd steer me straight out if it got to be harmful to me. That sensation really helped.

So anyway, I brought distractions, had my family of 4 there and it was ok. I did not dissociate during or after (just before). Being alone would have been different but this was fine.

I know I have emotions I've batted away though because of the back pain, chest pains and blurry vision ive been having all weekend. I told my T that for my appointment tomorrow I want to work on feeling my emotions, not defeating my negative thoughts. I don't think CBT is very good for someone like me. It reinforces my inability to feel any emotions except physically. I told my T I'd feel very cheated if I went through 3 yrs of therapy and never once needed a tissue.

-----
On the positive side, my camping trip with my little family was great. The kids were good to each other and we all had a great time trying our hand at standup paddleboarding. I even did it some even though I have a deadly reaction to cold water. I just stayed close to shore so that in case I fell I could get out right away and be ok. But I never fell.   :cheer:


Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 19, 2021, 06:47:15 AM
hey,

just want to let you know, i don't reply in journals unless i'm up to it, but thank you for the reassurance that i don't have to be here if i'm not.  :hug:

i'm so glad you and your fam had a good time on vacation.  also loved hearing that you gathered your protection people around you when you went to your mom's, and you were able to make it thru.  i've done that with forum members in the past, imagined a bunch of people from here walking with me, staying by my side, as i went thru something upsetting.  may i offer to you that if you ever need it, i'm happy to walk next to you, be behind you,, or whatever you need.  you don't have to go thru any of this alone.  so glad your t offered that 'being' with you, too.  that's great!

and, as always, sending love and hugs filled with continued perseverance as you keep moving thru your recovery. :hug: :bighug:  that big hug is to remind you that i do, indeed, have your back, even if i'm not up to responding here, ok?
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on July 19, 2021, 10:14:38 AM
 :heythere: Hi Armee, it's good to see you back.  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on July 19, 2021, 11:24:47 AM
Armee, I appreciate you sharing about your experience with your T.  I personally struggle with loving kindness meditation and find myself triggered anytime I participate in one.  For me I am realizing that offering kindness in my mind to others is tough because my mind is often not a kind place for myself or to myself.  I also notice I can be kind to others but the idea of offering kindness to people that have hurt me is so challenging.  I am personally not sure that is the best tool for trauma survivors at times.  I appreciate you taking steps to care for yourself. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 19, 2021, 02:25:03 PM
Blueberry thank you for the warm welcome back.  :hug:

San thank you. You always have the warmest most loving words. I'm so very happy when you have the energy to be here for us and for yourself.  :bighug: And thank you for offering your presence as a protector when I need it. I love that idea of bringing you all with me when I need the support of people who get it.

Rainy
I'm still working my way through catching up on journals and know I haven't gotten to yours yet but I've been reading and thinking of you. I can tell how much you love your kitty and want to do best by her and how much pain that is causing you. And from the outside can I just say: you are taking the BEST care of her. She's lucky to have you.  :hug:

Quote from: rainydiary on July 19, 2021, 11:24:47 AM
Armee, I appreciate you sharing about your experience with your T.  I personally struggle with loving kindness meditation and find myself triggered anytime I participate in one.
...
I am personally not sure that is the best tool for trauma survivors at times.  I appreciate you taking steps to care for yourself.

I 100% agree with this. I was super triggered by it when T tried it on me in the beginning and avoided it for a couple years.  For me, I couldn't handle "may you be free from inner and outer harm." T tried modifying it to leave that statement out for me but my brain still filled in the gap. Giving up control over life and death was too frightening and unacceptable, especially with my kids.

I think because they feel like empty words I don't have trouble with reciting them toward myself, but thinking or saying "be kind to Armee" or "I love you Armee" has triggered lots of bad reactions. I finally got through that with some somatic experiencing and ironically that is what led me to being able to push my mom away from me for the past 5 months and to stop blaming myself for everything. I need to write about that sometime.

Finally, toward other people who have harmed me,...I can see completely how this is not ok for traumatized and abused people.

For me, I specifically asked T Friday to help me get to a place where I could react from what my logical mind wants...which is to be kind toward my mom in her final months...instead of reacting in a triggered state. Because this is what I want deeply I think it was ok, specifically, for me. But there was nothing like "you have to forgive her and be kind." It was more about me trying to gain mastery over the FFFF response by keeping my logical brain active and remembering that I want to be kind.

This is self-protective for me on a couple levels...1. if I do not behave kindly then it becomes all my fault in my own head and yes I am working on that but still I don't want that hanging over me and 2. It seems to have helped keep me from dissociating which has been a very disruptive symptom for me because what I want more than anything in the whole wide world is to be present with my little family.

My mom, it's complicated, you know? She's just so damaged and mentally ill that she just can't step out of her own box of needs to attend to others or see how her actions affect us or take ownership for her behaviors and the consequences. But she isn't malicious.
-------

I had a dream a few nights ago, that her doctors changed her diagnosis from bipolar to schizophrenia and I felt this enormous guilt for not being kinder, because of how disabling schizophrenia can be. And I actually do wonder if it is more akin to schizoaffective disorder (bipolar + schizophrenia).

Either way, she is suffering, and the harm to me is incidental, not intentional. It doesn't make it ok for me to be hurt, and I don't feel anything but pity and hate and responsibility. She should have done better, but she didn't and here we are at the end of her life. At this point I just want to be true to myself which is being kind to people who are suffering, to the extent I can do that without causing harm to my own little family.

I am  not saying this is the right answer for everyone or even anyone, and it's only tolerable for me because my mom is not outright abusive and I have near certainty that there's a reasonable time stamp on putting myself back in potential harm's way.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 19, 2021, 03:43:04 PM
Armee,

there's so much in your posts that I'm not sure I can respond to everything I want to, but starting with the most recent first:

QuoteAt this point I just want to be true to myself which is being kind to people who are suffering, to the extent I can do that without causing harm to my own little family.
This puts it all in a nice nugget which includes yourself first, (Yeah!) others, and your family. I like that way you phrased it.

It is impressive and inspiring the way you methodically considered your family's needs, your own needs, feelings and the way you prepared so AWESOMELY!

Your envisioning your T's imaginary and affirming hand on your shoulder, your determination to be present and your aftercare are so multi-faceted and wow! My preparation for a triggering Zoom includes how many layers of plastic to put over the camera!  :bigwink:

Standing paddleboarding!  :cheer:
Woo hooo, I am SO jealous, but now I can act on that little thought which I had just 3 days ago when I saw people on the lake doing it. I wanna do that too! I can and I will.

There's more I'm sure, but my brain is melting, and I'm going to my journal now for an update.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on July 19, 2021, 06:42:13 PM
I'm glad you're back, Armee. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 20, 2021, 02:12:26 PM
Armee, I noticed this, along with other things, and really thought the irony was great!

QuoteI told my T I'd feel very cheated if I went through 3 yrs of therapy and never once needed a tissue.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 20, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
Snow drop...thanks for the warm welcome back. I like that...and I like your name. Snow. Drop. It feels solid but ephemeral.

Bee 🐝

You should definitely try paddleboarding! It feels really good and the rental boards are very wide and stable. I never fell and I am not athletic. Terrible balance and a bit overweight. You can also kneel and paddle. It's very grounding and mindful and whole body.

Thank you for affirming my priorities and the hard work I put into being present. It really did take a lot. I'm sorry zoom calls are painfully difficult for you. The curse of the pandemic.

Thanks for laughing at the irony of my never needing a tissue for therapy!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 20, 2021, 03:31:41 PM
Well. No tissues necessary last night in therapy. Except to wipe dog slobber off my hands. Love that therapy puppy I get to play with but good lord she slobbers. 

Still I think it was a good therapy session. He took things very very slow and mindful and for awhile I felt frustrated like "can't you just make me cry????" But he made a couple points that stayed with me. Interesting it's always the things he punctuates with something physical that stick.

One point was that I can't feel my emotions until my body is connected to the present moment and then my brain is connected to that present body. He firmly patted his own body to show me he is here and connected and body and brain are on the same page.

He also made the analogy that completely sums up how I feel. He said "it's like you're here in [x town] but your brain has a map of death valley." He was getting at the complete incongruency between how my body reacts, the emotions on my face, and how I feel about my current present life (perfect). 

He also talked a lot about how these reactions I have are the past. Which made me feel understood , especially because he's a CBT therapist and I feel so much of that is trying to talk sense and logic when I already know that my reactions are not logical. And it's because it's the past showing up.

Finally when I expressed a little frustration that I want to feel my emotions but we're just talking about mindfulness and being present he made the point that what we are doing is rebuilding my nervous system brick by brick.

So overall even though I didn't cry I feel respected by the snail's pace, understood, and like I am in good hands, still, and that he has my back as long and as slow as I need.

This is the poopy thing about CPTSD though...well one of the poopy things...my present life is exactly as I want it. I wouldn't change a single thing. And yet I feel so blah and numb and not here to enjoy it.  :disappear:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 21, 2021, 10:16:19 PM
 :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 21, 2021, 11:26:45 PM
Armee:

Quoteone of the poopy things...my present life is exactly as I want it. I wouldn't change a single thing. And yet I feel so blah and numb and not here to enjoy it.  :disappear:

You're waiting for all your parts to connect.  :grouphug: they're coming.......
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on July 22, 2021, 12:11:04 PM
Quote from: Armee on July 20, 2021, 03:31:41 PM

So overall even though I didn't cry I feel respected by the snail's pace, understood, and like I am in good hands, still, and that he has my back as long and as slow as I need.



Hi Armee,
I really like your description of your relationship with your T, and what you wrote here about that.  Good to know that you feel like that about him and the work you're doing together in your therapy.
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 22, 2021, 08:05:29 PM
San

:hug: Thanks for the hug to let me know you're there, and for taking care of yourself.  :cheer:

Hope

This is my first therapist ever and I am really lucky to have found him. He has his flaws as a T, and yet he is exactly the right T for me and I trust him enormously. I could go to someone who is more trained in trauma treatment but I like that we are learning together. I've suspected I'm his longest term client for awhile and he confirmed that's true last week (his training is in a rapid results style that just isn't for complex trauma). But also the person he consults with has affirmed that there just is not a timeline for complex trauma and it's not a failure on either of us and to keep going. The progress doesn't lie.  :cheer:

Bee

You gave me a lot to think about with your succinct comment. I think my biggest remaining problem is there's no connection not just between parts but really at all. I feel sad or down or frightened but without the actual emotion, and there is just no thought or event that is tied to it. It will just sit there all day. Clearly somewhere in my brain alarms or memories or thoughts are happening that cause these moods, but they are completely hidden from me. Not just parts but like the whole kit and caboodle. I don't even know how to go about fixing it. But I guess I'll trust my therapist and put some effort into yoga to start.

:grouphug:

------

Yesterday was tough. I don't remember my dreams but know I had some. But I woke up very blah depressed but without any thought or feeling or memory that would explain it. It didn't lift until this morning when I woke up. Also all day yesterday I had a tight swollen feeling in my throat and head and was very tired.

TW


There's nothing else below the possibly triggering content so just stop reading if you'd like.






Weirdly, I realized late in the afternoon that it felt like I was being choked and when I had that thought, the sensation released. Once the thought floated away the feeling came back and everytime I would think "it feels like I'm being choked" my throat would loosen and I could breathe again.

I don't have a memory of being choked, but i get very scared when my (sweet) husband (who has never and would never hurt me) touches my neck, or breathes near my ear, or even when my therapist had me imagine my husband behind me in a circle of supporters. I don't know if there's anything to it or not but it's not outrageous to think it could be a body memory since my sister got the chokehold treatment from stepdad.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 24, 2021, 05:14:17 AM
Sigh. I think I get why I don't really feel emotions....because I never know what emotion I'm supposed to feel. It's not one emotion it's like this crazy mix of sad and hurt and anger and confusion and guilt. I think that's probably common for dealing with people with severe PDs. I might start to feel sad but then all the other stuff crops up too and crowds it out or reminds me my role in it all.  I watched it happen tonight. Faint sadness and anger that then petered out to a fuzzy numbness then confusion and self blame until the whole thing was too confusing and I put it away, numb and confused and guilty.

My sis has also been trying to be kind to my mom and has been calling to talk and gently offer support. Her kids...one in college one a HS senior...wanted to come see her this summer because they want to make sure to see her before she passes so my sister asked if she wanted them to come visit this summer. She responded with a cold indifferent "no." There was other stuff too it's just hard to explain and my brain gets confused and I know we should just stop caring but we always end up feeling guilty like we've done something wrong and we end up thinking we are mean and unkind and unloving.  But here if I pause...and let this sink in and though I can't put myself back as a kid living like this I can still imagine some other kid growing up with this and imagine how damaging that would be and that makes me feel sad. Not for me but for this hypothetical kid.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 24, 2021, 02:01:03 PM
hey,

i know the idea of confusion, not being able to discern one emotion from another, a whole bunch  :fallingbricks: landing at the same time until, as you say, you have to put it all aside, put it all away because it becomes overwhelming and you go numb from it.  i think i've lived like this most of my life, and am only now being able to tease apart some of the emotions inside in order to actually feel them and resolve the issue that's causing them.

personally, (and this is what my t suggested), i think it's been a survival mechanism for some of us.  i think our level of sensitivity wouldn't/couldn't cope with the intensity of the emotions we felt.  besides which, when we'd express them as kids, we got shot down somehow - they weren't the right ones to feel, lots of shoulds and shouldn'ts areound our emotions, we were punished for feeling how we felt, etc.  we had to survive that environment and our brains and minds chose the mechanism best for us.  that's how i see it, anyway.

may i please reassure you that as you continue to recover your true self, get more tools for battling the old messages under which you had to survive, and begin feeling safer within yourself, you'll eventually become more sure of yourself, your emotions, your feelings, boundaries - all that good stuff - and you'll begin to feel stronger within yourself.  as this happens, the feelings will become clearer, make more sense,  and you'll know more and more about who you are and how the true you reacts to whatever comes your way.

give yourself time, ok?  i'm passing this along from a wise person i recently heard this from.  your patience, persistence, and determination will lead you to where you want to go.  of that i have no doubt.  love and hugs   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 26, 2021, 04:15:56 AM
Thank you, San, for the empathy and wisdom based on experience. I feel a lot of hope when I hear this from you because I know we both struggle with the alexithymia and i see how far you've come and I see it in myself, too, even though I have a ways to go.

------

My T signed up for EMDR training and certification!  :cheer: I'm really excited because I am hoping this will help with connecting parts of my brain that don't seem to talk to each other, and with regaining some memories.  I also really really hope it helps me be able to visualize stuff.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 26, 2021, 11:29:46 AM
i am an emdr therapist, and so is my t, and, for me, it's worked wonders.  i've been able to have visualizations and emotions come up i hadn't known were there, and from that i've been able to carry on to resolution some things i've carried for years and didn't even know it!  i hope you have the same happy results, armee.  you're getting there!  and, very cool that you can also see the progress within yourself.  that's huge, to my mind.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 27, 2021, 08:19:18 PM
This weekend my aunt (my mom's sister) and uncle watched my kids and DH and I got to have 24hrs without kids. It's been more than a year and a half since we've had kid free time together, other than a quick dog walk or a couple times we grabbed a drink for an hour while the kids stayed home.

It was lovely overall and good for the kids to have some time with them. And vice versa since they do not yet have grandkids. It gave me some mix of sad and happy feelings.

TW


Sad that the kids don't have a relationship with their grandma here (even before...my mom cannot be active or social), that their two grandpas are dead of suicide, and the other grandma lives across the globe and speaks a different language.  But happy that we have so many beautiful substitute relationships in our lives.

It was weird...because I get these physical impulses that I don't quite act on and am not even aware of the thoughts... but as I was getting ready to go I had both my usual sensations of SH...its not my usual SH that I do (not knowing that's what it was until recently)...but these very strong intrusive impulses with something else that is much more clearly SH but that I don't act on? I don't want to get too graphic or triggering.

But s inwas getting ready to take my kids to my aunt's I was bouncing between these intrusive impulses of SH but also caught myself hugging myself too around the same time unconsciously. Not in a scared way but like self compassionate. And that is something that has been very very challenging? But then it was just happening automatically but in the midst of these other impulses.

Overall I took it as a sign of really good progress that these impulses toward self compassion are breaking through.

Then I also went hiking with DH while the kids were gone, and hiking with my DH is my favorite and hiking is very grounding for me. But I kept dissociating for much of the hike. I finally got myself out and grounded but it took about 45 minutes of effort. The thing that bugs me is I have no conscious triggers. I don't know why I was dissociated. I don't know why it was so hard to come back.

Sorry I know that this writing is all over the map.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 27, 2021, 10:36:40 PM
Dear Armee. it's really hard for me to read your story because I see a lot of my old story. As I like to go overboard on affirmation: Yes, yes and more yes. That tornado's mix of emotions, feeling it a little, then taking cover. Trying to connect with yourself when it's safe to do so.

san has put it into words beautifully, I'll take a verbal shortcut and say, "Yeah that."

About SH, I am going out on a limb here and saying, I think your awareness of your impulses and urges were good things. Why? Because you allowed your conscious mind to steer you for those moments. I'm a big fan of "awareness" because much of life has been lived submerged. You can't learn from or control what you don't "know."

Additionally, I've got another opinion about SH urges and impulses- Just an opinion. We share the same gruesome inter-generational trauma choices (life ending) and just like our brains are differently wired to process stuff, those urges and impulses may have a biological component. Not that you can "Do" anything about it, other than observe and hopefully restrain yourself. but these thought patterns have been consciously and unconsciously embedded in your cognitive processes. Mine too. Hello!

As far as hiking, and then spending time grounding yourself, it's probably not how you envisioned it would go. I do see all kinds of growth in you and right now, your willingness to be open emotionally to pretty much everyone, to allow yourself special time alone with your H, to reflect on all this here.  :yes: Very much forward movement and to be cherished.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 28, 2021, 03:22:55 PM
Thanks, Bee. I'm sorry my journal is hard to read for you. Many journals are like that for each of us, and yet here we are.  :hug:

I had to work my way up yesterday to returning a call from my mom. Luckily I had a therapy appointment between the time she left me a message and the time she told me to return her call. The call was to tell me she is stopping chemo. 

Anyway, I worked through an approach with T of how to manage between now and the end. Acknowledging that there will always be a cost to interacting with her and then deciding what I want to do and "surfing it" or deciding I want to play her game to the end and "surfing " on that too. Just skate along ride the waves on the surface, paddle back to shore when I get pummeled, not going in when I'm depleted.

It all sounded good. I got back to my car and picked up my phone to call her and ended up dissociated and digging my nails into my skin to be able to do it. So much for progress. Then I got really sad thinking just to call her I have to dissociate, hurt myself, and bury nearly every ounce of myself. But then I don't HAVE to do that to myself. Surfing is harder than it sounds. I called 5 minutes late and she didn't answer. Leaving me wondering if shes angry I'm calling 5 min later than she told me to, if she's getting back at me for giving her windows of time to call me, if she hates me and doesn't want to talk to me, or maybe I'm being cray cray and she fell asleep etc.

She called me back 45 minutes later just as I was getting home. It went fine. Working up and recovering is worse than the actual time. She put in a lot of little digs that made me go a bit colder than I wanted (she is pretty negative but passively toward the boy grandkids. Both of who have struggled with SI but she doesn't know that. But it's a sore spot when she makes those digs).

But yeah...lots of dissociation and shame and self hatred that I wasnt kind enough or didn't do it right or shouldn't think the way I do or maybe she didn't mean x y or z, even though I know she did but if i didn't think like that I wouldn't be so miserable but I know her patterns and the alternative is to blame myself for not being nice enough but i shouldn't do that either. Just a nice little circular trap I build.

So anyway. Lots of the yucky feels today. Lots of time dissociated in the bathroom. Lots of physically aggressive body sensations.

Speaking of. I did try to explain the day I felt like I was being choked all day to my T last night. Instead of being dismissive or treating me like I was over-interpreting something he praised me for naming the sensation and said that he wished I would call him when something like that is happening and even better to see him in person to work with it.

It reminded me of a time he helped me through a really awful time...hallucination or flashback and body memories or I don't even know what to say. But it was embarrassing and he handled it really gentle. And remembering that and how he talked to me last night about the choking feeling.

It just reminds me that he is safe and has my back and isn't jumping or leading me to conclusions but also isn't dismissive just because things don't make sense.

Anyway I am really lucky. Despite not having good parents, everyone else in my life is awesome. Including everyone here.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 28, 2021, 05:27:13 PM
Armee

QuoteSpeaking of. I did try to explain the day I felt like I was being choked all day to my T last night. Instead of being dismissive or treating me like I was over-interpreting something he praised me for naming the sensation and said that he wished I would call him when something like that is happening and even better to see him in person to work with it.

I'm so glad you have "someone" that accepts whatever you bring; and is gentle with you respecting everything about you.

Quotehe is safe and has my back and isn't jumping or leading me to conclusions but also isn't dismissive just because things don't make sense.

This is so encouraging.  :cheer:

P.S. please don't ever say "I'm sorry" about whatever is in your journal.  :bigwink:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 29, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
we've got you, armee.  we're in this together.  much love and a hug filled with continued determination. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 29, 2021, 04:20:06 PM
Oof. Yesterday was tough. So many of my old negative thoughts, so much time lost to dissociation. I finally reached out to T for some help restabilizing and that was effective.

I don't know if others have had a similar experience but I have a certain set of negative thoughts that come from the PTSD and are protective in a way. Triggering situations lead to an avalanche of circular negative thoughts but trying to use cognitive behavioral therapy on these thoughts makes it way way way worse.

T picked up on that last night when we talked to get me back ok and told me to treat them like intrusive thoughts like OCD and just not engage with them. Just be all "ok hi thought that I'm stupid wrong and bad. I see you." Then move on. Trying to "defeat" them just makes it worse. Just fight to stay present with everything I've got, whatever I have to do beside SH. And that approach ended up working. I still had some of the thoughts but not engaging them let me move on faster and not trigger an avalanche of other bad thoughts.  :cheer:

But anyway...
I think that's why I ended up in such a bad spot this week was because we tried to go back a little to cognitive behavioral therapy on Tuesday, which we had scrapped for awhile as not being effective for me.

My working theory this week is that it is triggering for the gaslighting that I experience with my mom. Like i may have a negative thought when she doesn't answer when I call 5 minutes late that "shes not answering because I called late" ---> "she doesn't want to talk to me." Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would say that is distorted because I don't know that's true and it's distorted because it's jumping to conclusions or whatever.  So then I think: "I shouldn't think that" but in the back of my head I know it's TRUE but "I shouldn't think like that, I'm causing my own suffering."

But if I don't think that and catch those patterns then I end up on a wild ride with my mom's mental illnesses. So then I get scared I'm going to be hurt again if I drop those thoughts and I get super stuck feeling.

And in the end, identifying the original thought "she doesn't want to talk to me" as distorted and needing to be defeated is very similar to the gaslighting I've been through where she denies everything and leaves my head spinning and thinking "it must be me. I am wrong and bad and crazy."

Anyway I'm glad I'm back to my normal state. It's not a perfect state but I'm not lost and drowning so I'll take it!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on July 29, 2021, 04:40:46 PM
I appreciate what you offer here Armee.  I don't find CBT helpful.  I think it is essentially telling someone to invalidate their own experience.  There is a reason we have the thoughts and feelings we have. 

For me the healing has come from actually being heard in the thoughts and feelings I have and not being told I shouldn't think or feel that way.  Then sometimes on my own, I begin to see "Oh maybe that story I have is off" because I now have different information. 

I can relate to what you share about getting in a spiral.  Sometimes it takes me a long time to recognize I'm in one. 

I hope today feels more easeful for you.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Libby183 on July 29, 2021, 05:54:10 PM
So pleased that you are feeling a bit better, Armee. Those constant thoughts, followed by talking yourself out of those thoughts is just so exhausting.

Wishing you all the best. Libby.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 29, 2021, 08:57:25 PM
QuoteI don't find CBT helpful.  I think it is essentially telling someone to invalidate their own experience.  There is a reason we have the thoughts and feelings we have.

:yeahthat:

Plus, I saw myself in every single thought you wrote!

QuoteAnd in the end, identifying the original thought "she doesn't want to talk to me" as distorted and needing to be defeated is very similar to the gaslighting I've been through where she denies everything and leaves my head spinning and thinking "it must be me. I am wrong and bad and crazy."

It's exhausting. I'm glad you're in a better place.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on July 30, 2021, 06:03:05 AM
 :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Alter-eg0 on July 30, 2021, 12:00:35 PM
Glad you're feeling better, Armee.

I recognise what you said about the negative thoughts, and CBT techniques making it worse. I have that same experience. The thing is, a lot of the time, we already know these thoughts are not rational. We know perfectly well what we "should" be thinking, and that doesn't make them go away. I mean, if it were that simple, we would have gotten rid of those thoughts a long time ago. And in my experience, trying to "rationalize" them, is kind of like invalidation. Those thoughts serve a purpose (sometimes I have to listen to the underlying intention or feeling, instead of the actual thought, and it actually begins to make more sense that those thoughts are there, whether they are true or not), and invalidating them by countering them with "helpful thoughts" only makes them stronger....so the technique that your T helped you with, just acknowledging them without interacting with them, actually did wonders for me too.
I once downloaded that Headspace app and did some short meditations that kind of worked the same way; instead of blocking thoughts out or fighting them, just pretending that they are like clouds floating by, and that when you notice them, you kind of just say "hi" and then gently move your focus to something else again as they float on by. I guess it's like treating yourself with more compassion.

Have a good day!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on July 30, 2021, 04:16:56 PM
Thank you everyone for affirming the CBT experience. It works for some things but not the trauma. My T recommended a book on intrusive thoughts. I've read the sample while I wait for a hardcopy. (Overcoming unwanted intrusive thoughts). I don't think the intrusive thoughts are the issue. Those I can ignore cause they are so ridiculous. But I'm sure I'll learn something from it and can then also help my T see what is missing.

My sister is planning on visiting next week. That always gets pretty intense. We love each other but we see the hurt in each other and it's like affirming how bad things were/are. We can hide from ourselves but not each other.

The kids start school in a week and a half! In person, normal schedule!!!! It has been a year and a half of having them home while trying to work and nonstop interruptions. I cant even imagine what it'll feel like to better be able to separate work and family again.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on July 30, 2021, 07:03:16 PM
Armee,

that's a lot of changes in a short period of time. With all the growth and changes in you, it may be that your sister's visit will have a different flavor this time. I don't know. I imagine it will be fun for you to see her and put one more piece of your life back together.

My fairy godmother wishes the school opening for your kids and your family goes well. It's been so disorienting for everyone. Here's to potential separation of work and family.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 02, 2021, 06:05:33 AM
Lots of hurt, sadness, confusion, anger. Mom fell again today and hit her head. I found out EMTs said she should have someone keep an eye on her so she is having her neighbor come over. I offered, gently, kindly to come sit with her.

But she coldly said no her neighbor would come over.  There's just so many conflicting feelings. I already was feeling a bit raw recognizing my own "Waldo" to borrow from Bee's analogy that a fundamental belief i have, with lots of (what feels like) proof..is that bad things will happen and/or I will be abandoned if I am not 200% perfect all the time.

I was reading a book this weekend...a young adult novel about adoption and family called "Far From the Tree." I recognized a lot of my beliefs and reactions in one of the characters. And some of the stuff that happened, like him being thrown against a bookshelf....it wasn't triggering...it's more like feeling compassion and sadness and anger for someone else's story and then realizing how many parallels to your own life it has and being a little stunned that maybe I'm supposed to have some level of compassion for myself like that too.

I wish someone would write my life as a novel so I'd know what I'm supposed to feel about it and then could feel it.   :whistling:

And like Bee but not as bad, all these conflicting emotions are taking up residence in my neck and it's painful. I may need to buckle and find a masseuse. But i dread that because they get so mad at me that I can't relax. And even the lightest touch can be very painful.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 02, 2021, 06:06:38 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 02, 2021, 12:47:37 PM
Armee,

I really like this:
Quotethen realizing how many parallels to your own life it has and being a little stunned that maybe I'm supposed to have some level of compassion for myself like that too.

Formatting choices are mine. So yeah, you're opening up to see the possibilities. And that is (to borrow my T's favorite word) HUGE. It's distressing to read that your Mom fell and injured herself. and even more that she's determined to maintain that arm's length stance with you. A thought that pops up is that she's really invested in this story she's constructed about herself despite reality and that's always tragic and sad when someone does that. I'm not going to be popular with this next thought. It is her choice. Personally, it bothers me when people make those choices and I've learned with my sister, it's not possible to change their choices. So I know the devastation that causes for you. Follow your intuition and you'll be OK.

Challenge those beliefs that connect proof with unattainable states. Proof is found everywhere and your selection matters. Choose the good proofs, which dissolve the false narratives.

Here's a shocker. You'll be able to write your own autobiography. It may be a paragraph here or there, a page or two, an entire chapter. Who knows? You are already putting down all the outline, HERE!

Don't make any sudden movements with your neck, arms or bending down to get something from the refrigerator. Slow, easy, lots of horizontal periods. Allow yourself to "buckle" the sooner the better. It makes a difference.

Affectionately Bee and Waldo  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 02, 2021, 11:44:58 PM
All of these sentiments feel very correct, Bee. Thank you for them. Deep in the pit the thinking gets a bit goofy but these are the thoughts I have when that old prefrontal cortex is working right. It gets messy in my brain. Also thank you for the self compassion tidbits. I do listen to tara brach cause T sends them to me. But her advice feels out of reach for me still. But it's inching closer. I got R and I down, but A and N are like a foreign language. She's speaking english but what is she saying????

I could write an autobiography one day...but today I want someone to tell me how I'm supposed to feel.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 02, 2021, 11:54:24 PM
Quote from: Armee on August 02, 2021, 11:44:58 PM
I could write an autobiography one day...but today I want someone to tell me how I'm supposed to feel.

I am relating strongly to this.  As I am upset, I want someone to take the upset away.  But what am I feel when it isn't upset or triggered.  I appreciate your support.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on August 04, 2021, 12:30:00 PM
Quote from: Armee on August 02, 2021, 06:05:33 AM


I was reading a book this weekend...a young adult novel about adoption and family called "Far From the Tree." I recognized a lot of my beliefs and reactions in one of the characters. And some of the stuff that happened, like him being thrown against a bookshelf....it wasn't triggering...it's more like feeling compassion and sadness and anger for someone else's story and then realizing how many parallels to your own life it has and being a little stunned that maybe I'm supposed to have some level of compassion for myself like that too.

I wish someone would write my life as a novel so I'd know what I'm supposed to feel about it and then could feel it.   :whistling:



Hi Armee,
I also find that reading books that cover issues like adoption and family are things I can relate to.  I think that when I listen to the reactions of characters in such books to situations, and especially if there's an empathic or understanding character there who comments on the situations, then it's like they understand, and I tend to look for those things.  (Sorry - I started knowing what I was writing here, but now I'm not sure where it's going) - but what I did think reading what you wrote, is that I relate to it.  Sending you a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 04, 2021, 05:54:39 PM
Armee,

To heck with R.A.I.N! How about a gentle summer shower, just at dusk, so you can see a rainbow as the sun sets?  All mosquitoes are banned within a mile radius. There's an energy field around you which only lets in peaceful vibrations. You are at the center of your own universe, which holds you in a secure embrace.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 05, 2021, 03:44:27 PM
Hope

Please know that what you say is valuable, including parts that get erased. I would like you to know that in my journal you are welcome to not erase, if and when the eraser part feels safe enough to leave some. It's ok with me, if it's ok with you, if it trails off, or parts of it get erased, or if it doesn't make sense. I think it is still valuable. You work so hard and have such thoughtful things to say, and it makes me feel a little sad that so much of what you say needs to be erased.

Bee
I love the gentle shower image. My version of RAIN is still too much like hailing icicles. But it's getting gentler.

Rainy
Thanks for stopping in to relate with what I am feeling.

------
Well haha! After writing that to Hope I went and deleted my whole post.

Let's try again fewer details.

I'm feeling very hurt. T and I decided to try to ignore all the self-doubt that comes when I feel that way...hurt, angry, sad. As soon as I feel one of those I tell myself it's my fault or I'm misinterpreting something or whatever. So this week, just stop with the self doubt. I've had plenty of tests. But so far I have to say there's less misery when I just turn that voice off.

I'm also supposed to be very upfront with my husband and kids that spending time engaging with mom is very difficult but I want to be there for her cause it's important to me, but for a couple days after I'll be a bit out of it, and that I'd have to describe exactly what that looks like. Do the opposite of my mom....pull my family in close and get their support. So far all I managed was crying on my husband's shoulder that "I'm not ok" but that's a big step.

The next couple days are going to be hard.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 05, 2021, 03:52:13 PM
Armee, I appreciate how hard you are working to manage experiences of self-doubt.  I wish you ease in the coming days. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on August 05, 2021, 07:39:45 PM
Thinking of you, Armee.  I hear that it's hard. Sending you support. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 05, 2021, 07:52:52 PM
Deep breath. I could also use a cup of tea.  :hug:

I'm having a lot of chest and neck tightness today and blurry vision. I'm deep cleaning for my sisters visit and finding myself stressed and irritable.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it an emotional flashback but...its also not just stress about cleaning.


TW....physical abuse (ugh it feels weird to write the abuse word there)

When we were kids we would get beat for not cleaning well enough or fast enough. My sister would get it worse than me because she'd talk back about it and when she would get hit she'd laugh and say it didn't hurt. I would say oh sorry! You're right I didn't do a good enough job let me fix that. I'd be stressed for always getting yelled at for not doing it right. But my sis remembers her getting beat more. So she turned into a super super neat freak and I turned into a bit of a slob. But now I'm seeing the gross stuff through her eyes and trying to deep clean all in one day. Also have to take kids back to school clothes shopping and go to the grocery store and figure out dinner. I thought they'd get here around 10 but they will be here much sooner.

Anyway this isn't stress about sis, it's about the mom time that will go with it, including meeting with her palliative care dr tomorrow morning about end of life care. Gulp.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 05, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Armee, I appreciate you sharing.  That is a lot to be carrying around.  I will be thinking of you. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on August 05, 2021, 08:02:46 PM
Tea on the way, my friend. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 05, 2021, 09:41:03 PM
Hi Armee,

Deep cleaning is a bummer, whether someone is coming or not. It makes a mess, feels disorganized and in general a very tough activity. So, if you feel irritable, cranky, impatient, stressed-it comes with the territory. I've never heard of anyone being calm, happy and energized while deep cleaning!  :hug:

And your description of your childhood punishment for not living up to unrealistic standards took me on a quick trip down and back on memory lane. Those placating, people pleasing statements, and "bobbing and weaving" around the rein of terror which you lived through. Just like you, sisters develop different adulthood styles (reactions) and I see a lot of my own story in yours. Seeing your sister and Mom, with attendant palliative care is certainly stretching all your inner resources. There isn't an easy or better way to go through it. Its the pits, regardless and for that reason, allow yourself whatever it takes to "get through" it.

If you want to rest, go ahead. Go outside and stare at the night sky-yup. Watch something ridiculous-sure. Play silly games with the kids-they'd love that. Or nothing at all. Just follow your muse.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 08, 2021, 07:07:46 AM
Its not good. The shame and guilt are very high tonight. The hurt and horror were high yesterday. I know what I am supposed to do but...

Hmm. Dissociation has struck. Ok. I don't know what to say I guess.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on August 08, 2021, 07:14:09 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 08, 2021, 11:10:00 AM
Armee, I am thinking of you. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: CactusFlower on August 08, 2021, 02:40:19 PM
Thinking of you as well and wishing helpful energy, Armee. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 08, 2021, 07:39:48 PM
Thanks for the hugs and I wish I had more to give back in your own journals right now.

I need to figure out how to recover faster from the dysregulation of interacting with my mom, so it is less disruptive to my life and how I want to lead it. It's just this stuff sits like a wild animal on me for a day or two and with interactions increasing it means I'm not who I want to be in between those interactions.

There were a lot of hurtful feeling things at the palliative care dr appointment though the dr did a really nice job. Towards the end my mom made a bit of a psychotic violent comment about my sister. It wasn't a threat but it was like a weird peek into her thoughts. It was less upsetting to my sister but I couldn't stop crying whenever it would pop in my head.

But then also my mom has really declined a lot the past few weeks but still refuses to have an aide and refuses to ask for or accept help and she is very weak and frail.

My sister made a few comments that made me feel guilty. We're ok but I just got into a big funk last night. It's a little better today. More balanced. Still sucks but it isn't out of control. Still, I have a bit of an emotional hangover.

This week, too, won't be easy. I'll have some work to make up, the kids start school which will be a big adjustment. My mom has a surgery on Wednesday which I just found out about a couple days ago. And I need to set up hospice care which will be several appointments and difficult to navigate with my mom's resistance and denial.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 08, 2021, 08:23:19 PM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 08, 2021, 08:29:39 PM
Armee,

Although it doesn't feel like it, I think you're doing really well. To describe it as an emotional hangover is perfect! Entering the palliative care stage is very hard. You will have lots of information you don't want. Added to that is dragging you Mother along. This is what I see:

A caring, sensitive, kind person
A sister who wants to protect her sibling
A daughter who has made difficult choices
A woman that has a strong inner core
A woman that believes in the future of herself and family
A connected, observant, energetic, enduring, spiritual being that is part of the good in the world

I'm in your corner. :yes:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 09, 2021, 05:07:34 AM
Thank you for the gentle support, Rainy.

Bee, thank you for naming what you see. On decent days I see the same. On days like yesterday I see none of it. I need to remember that the feeling is temporary. It may come back often but it isn't permanent.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 09, 2021, 10:54:51 PM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 12, 2021, 04:02:22 AM
 :stars:

I got nice normal(ish) mom today. *? 

She said things like "oh you're so sweet!" And "that's sweet of you." And not in a fake or cutting way. She was open and realistic.

Always on my toes with that one. Just when I start to feel justified in being horrified.

I also talked through with my husband taking time off work. I have a bunch of paid time off saved up but don't want to take it too soon in case things go longer than they are expected to. But my husband said that was ok, to run out of paid leave but still take time off. I protested that i shouldn't take time off before needed and then sit around doing nothing and he listed off all the things I've been doing in addition to working including all the doctors phone calls for my mom and the kids and house stuff. 💛

The best part of therapy was learning how to open up to that guy so he could support me. That's probably the saddest part of CPTSD...having someone so kind and loving and not trusting him and avoiding and isolating from the man who has loved me for 30 years. I'm crying a little right now writing that.

Anyway I think I'll probably try to wrap some stuff up the next few weeks and then cut way back and not take on new things. I have a few things i don't want to let slide. Everything else needs to go.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 12, 2021, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: Armee on August 12, 2021, 04:02:22 AM
The best part of therapy was learning how to open up to that guy so he could support me. That's probably the saddest part of CPTSD...having someone so kind and loving and not trusting him and avoiding and isolating from the man who has loved me for 30 years.

This part resonated with me a lot.   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 12, 2021, 02:28:48 PM
Hey Armee,

It's totally confusing when consistently problematic people act out of their norm.  :hug: 

This caught my eye: Your withholding credit from yourself~
Quoteand then sit around doing nothing and he listed off all the things I've been doing in addition to working including all the doctors phone calls for my mom and the kids and house stuff. 💛

Good thing you have a loving observer who reminds you of your value and worth.
QuoteI'm crying a little right now writing that.

And finally, this is the way to embrace it!  :cheer:
QuoteI have a few things i don't want to let slide. Everything else needs to go.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 13, 2021, 05:28:08 AM
so glad for your loving, caring partner, and even more glad that you're learning to open up to him, let that care and love in.  you so deserve it, armee.  keep taking care of you, ok?  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 16, 2021, 05:53:21 AM
Thank you Rainy, Bee, and San. It helps a lot to feel your care and understanding. 

I've had a lot of panic this week... that's a bit new to me. I've always dissociated so much that panic wasn't in my repertoire. But my throat muscles have not been much under my control lately and they are clenching so tight breathing has been hard.

I've been busy this past week getting my mom signed up for hospice and keeping other family up to date and dealing with my younger kid melting down about me being gone so much.

The bad part is hospice blindsided me while we were signing paperwork by saying that they could only admit her into hospice care if there were already a plan in place for 24/7 care to activate when needed. And made me sign to legally be her primary caregiver. I can still hire it out but now I'm legally responsbile for her safety and care.

So I spent my whole life feeling responsible for her safety and health but was actually not responsible and was wholly powerless to stop her self harm. I've finally come to grips that that wasn't my job I couldn't keep her safe and it wasn't my job to do that.  And now...it is... but I still can't. She puts  up a battle about the smallest things and does not want even part time caregivers, let alone round the clock care.

The initial panic has settled but that was massively triggering.

I also had to talk to her beloved neighbors and though they are super kind it's really a hurtful thing to have had to do.

And my youngest child is very very upset about me being gone too much.

This week I anticipate at least 3 appointments at my mom's house and a ton of calls to make.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on August 16, 2021, 09:30:23 AM
Quote from: Armee on August 16, 2021, 05:53:21 AM
The bad part is hospice blindsided me while we were signing paperwork by saying that they could only admit her into hospice care if there were already a plan in place for 24/7 care to activate when needed. And made me sign to legally be her primary caregiver. I can still hire it out but now I'm legally responsbile for her safety and care.
May I be angry at the hospice for you?  :pissed: :pissed:
Blindsiding people and forcing them to do something they don't want to is dishonest behaviour imho. It's the type of thing I fear LL doing atm.

I do know that I'm not in the same country as you so laws are likely to be different. I'm pretty sure that in my country you have the right to withdraw from even part of a contract within 14 days, so if you could hire the primary caregiver out within that time, you wouldn't have to be primary caregiver till the end of M's life. But it may of course not be legally possible where you are.

I bet this topic has come up before on https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=37.0

Anyway enough with the suggestions. It may well be that neither of them reflect how you want to deal with this.

Quote from: Armee on August 16, 2021, 05:53:21 AM
I also had to talk to her beloved neighbors and though they are super kind it's really a hurtful thing to have had to do.

I understand how hurtful that would be.
I'm wishing you a protective bubble for the week as you deal with all of this and I also wish you the ability to mobilise your strengths and resiliency when you need them.  :hug: :hug: :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 18, 2021, 03:08:10 AM
Thanks for the protective bubble and the anger Blueberry! Both helped! I can rescind the document if needed in the future. And I usually stay away from OOTF for the same reason you've mentioned before. Its sometimes a bit too...abrupt or gruff...and sometimes makes me feel worse. It's a good suggestion. I may be over there more in the next month.

I actually feel a good bit better. The hospice social worker called today to get a "social history" for my mom. But she asked something pointedly about how I felt about some safety issues and i opened up a bit even allowing my voice to break a touch and described the history and how painful it is to see these safety issues and feel responsible and helpless and that it had been very upsetting to sign those papers taking legal responsibility.

The social worker said she had a similar history as me and reassured me that these are her choices to make and I am not responsible.

****TW****




Suicide/euthanasia



She also mentioned (before this part of the conversation) that "death with dignity" is a legal option for my mom to choose if she wants. Ethically I am ok with this option if it is what she wants, it seems kinder. But I also don't think my mom has accepted her timeline yet.

But...That was interesting to ponder in terms of how I would take that given my family history.  Is that considered suicide? I guess it's "medically assisted death" ? Is that how is is listed on the death certificate? Why does that matter to me? (I know why)

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 18, 2021, 04:35:03 PM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 19, 2021, 06:08:33 AM
I dissociated at and after therapy tonight. It's been several weeks since that has happened. And it kicked in just now writing this maybe from trying to remember or figure out how or why it happened.

Part of it was my T sort of gently but intentionally brought up some stuff not related to my mom that I thought would safely take a back seat for awhile. He said it came up from last session but he didn't want to go into it then because I was...i forget what word he used...but i think he was saying things were too intense already with the hospice stuff and the legal paperwork. So I'm not sure what he saw or what I said or did that brought it up and that stuff always worries me, when I'm unaware.

But then we switched to the "safe" predictable mom topic and he was saying something that seemed innocuous I don't remember what and my brain just whooshed me away in a split second. It's been awhile since the dissociation was so sudden and strong.

I'm trying to be gentle though with myself. I really like what I read in someone's post today...I don't even remember who...but it was about fixing up a bedroom nice for themselves because the traumatized little girl deserved a nice room after everything she'd been through. That was such a sweet gesture and way of thinking about it that I'm going to try to bring some of that compassion to how i treat myself too.

On the mom front I was there for about 2 hrs today meeting with the nurse and spiritual counselor. It's interesting that not that long ago I couldn't be near her even outside and now I am ok and not having those strong reactions. I think it's not feeling in danger anymore because this is almost over. I can't be hurt anymore.

I've talked to my bosses today and yesterday and they are fully supportive of me taking time off (of course). I work closely with one senior manager who knows me well on a friend and work level, and he knows how intolerable and painful praise is. The other i work with more but we don't know each other as well. She sort of knows I don't like public praise, but doesn't know how bad it is even in private. Like she must think I'm just humble.

So I'm telling her today why I need to take time off and she just started telling me of course and especially with someone like me who works so hard and contributes so much etc etc etc. laying on the praise and appreciation. I noticed how strange it is I can sit there and tell her my mom is dying and be totally fine, but when she started praising me my head dropped and I started digging into my skin to stop the pain until she moved on from the praise.

There's work to be done there and it goes beyond confidence.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: woodsgnome on August 19, 2021, 07:55:27 PM
I used to be hard on myself  for dissociating too much. Until my T responded once by noting that dissociation is perfectly normal and natural for someone from a traumatic background.

Until then, I'd always felt so guilty afterwards and/or just upset. And yet, as she calmly noted -- of course this happens. Plus there's no reason to jump all over myself about it. It was all part of being myself, but she nudged me towards accepting that aspect of my recovery.

Good that you've been getting understanding from your bosses about you situation. Also hope you've found some peace within the hospice setting -- I feel close to that as I once worked in hospice care.

I hope you won't forget your self-care. This is always good, of course, but seems like it's especially important now.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on August 20, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
Hi Armee,
I wanted to send you a supportive hug, if that's ok  :hug: 
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 21, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
Thanks for the hug San and Hope, it's just right.  :hug:

Woodsgnome, thank you for the reassuring words about dissociation. When I've been able to adopt that attitude is when I've made the most progress with dissociation.

-----

Things are bad in terms of PTSD triggers and pain and  anxiety and stress and insomnia.

I'm trying not to think or ruminate or solve but my body is reacting anyway in unignorable ways that keep me from sleeping and in pain and worried that I am making myself sick.

At least I have started wrapping up at work and have taken care of family leave act paperwork so I will probably be done with work around Sept 1 and at least won't have that preventing sleep and self care.

TW....anxious spinning....


The trigger of having signed the primary caregiver paperwork has gotten worse. My mom falls a lot. She hides it but after she fell out of bed and lied on the floor for 3 hrs refused to tell her lifeline system she accidentally texted my aunt for help trying to reach her neighbor who is complicit in hiding these things from us. I reported the fall to hospice.  Hospice social work said if she keeps refusing precautions they would have to call adult protective services as a CYA measure.

Problem is I signed to be legally responsible for her care which was required to get her into hospice care at her home. So if adult protective services is called she is no longer self-neglecting...I am neglectful. So then I try to wrap myself around what to do.

Do I revoke the paperwork? If I do, my mom will see it no matter what I say as proof I don't want to help her and won't help her and will push me away and play the victim and I will feel like garbage for not helping my mom in her dying days and will turn the blame on myself for not handling the situation right, delicately enough. I can logically say it's not my fault but emotionally, no. This is all the core trauma in the first place.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: woodsgnome on August 21, 2021, 05:25:12 PM
Offering you a supportive hug --  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 21, 2021, 05:55:09 PM
Armee,

It seems that no matter which way you turn, there's a Catch-22 waiting to happen.  It may or may not help...buy adult protective may not result in the dynamics you imagine. By now there has been plenty of outside "objective" input from social workers, MD, nurses etc. Drawing a conclusion that you are responsible or complicit with her falling or injuries is improbable. If professionals look back through the paperwork story, they will see her resistance at every turn. While I don't put a lot of faith in protective services per se, they are there to step in when options are limited. If she not cooperating with the way things have been set up, and you only find out by accidents after the fact, then it looks like a different set of eyes and brains might come up with an alternative solution. Maybe not, but is it worth a try?

I can't and won't tell you how to feel. I would encourage you to seek out the most trusted source you've talked to so far to make sure everyone has the latest input and clarify what adult protective services mean for both her and you.

You're doing everything you can do. However you can make it through it is the way it goes.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 21, 2021, 07:02:52 PM
Armee, what a difficult place to be in.  I will be thinking of you as you navigate this experience. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on August 21, 2021, 08:06:46 PM
Supportive  :hug: :hug: to you
Quote from: Armee on August 21, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
Do I revoke the paperwork? If I do, my mom will see it no matter what I say as proof I don't want to help her and won't help her and will push me away and play the victim and I will feel like garbage for not helping my mom in her dying days and will turn the blame on myself for not handling the situation right, delicately enough. I can logically say it's not my fault but emotionally, no. This is all the core trauma in the first place.

I'm really sorry that's the core trauma.

You are NOT garbage if you decide not to help your M in her dying days. You would be doing that to protect yourself, a very valid action. So if you do revoke the paperwork, I for one will be happy to remind you that you are a valuable and caring person who is handling the situation well by getting out of it. ime hearing/reading on here the opposite to what my ICr tells me eventually gets through emotionally at least a little bit. I hope it's that way for you too.  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 22, 2021, 04:06:36 AM
Such wise words and supportive hugs. Thank you for being wise and caring when I am unable to muster those characteristics myself.

Today the drama started again...around 230. I was getting ready to have my in laws over to celebrate my sister in laws birthday. Right as they got there...i got a call from the neighbors that she fell backward off her front steps and hit her head on the concrete again. Exact same thing sent her to the hospital about 3 weeks ago. Shes not supposed to go down her steps without assistance. Her neighbor had been over to walk her dog. While the neighbor was out with the dog she decided to go down them. She could have asked for help she has half a dozen neighbors who are there all the time asking what she needs. This time she got admitted. I'm not sure yet why. The hospital gave us no info and hospitals here are closed to visitors.

I had to revoke her hospice paperwork so she could go to the hospital and get the scans she needs. When I reinstate it when she gets out (if) I will revoke my legal role as primary caregiver. I will still do the things but until she is deemed incompetent I won't take legal responsibility for this.

She had gotten a lecture from me, her neighbors, and my (golden child) husband about using her lifeline to get help when she falls. She normally has it on 24/7 but lies when it goes off and senses a fall. This time she was not wearing it. Because she is a defiant toddler teen senior mashup.

I am so done with all this chaos and heartache and worry.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 22, 2021, 09:35:38 AM
Another lesson in impermanence and the idea that things are always changing. I picked M up at the hospital at 1230am. They were going to send her home alone in an ambulance because it was late. I can't even believe that. Cause she was drastically weaker than when I saw her a few days ago to the point she couldn't walk 10 feet and accepted me getting the wheelchair from the garage hospice had given her against her will to push her through her small house. She needed me to take off and put on her depends.

This the same woman who a couple weeks ago practically shoved away any offer for even normal human offers of assistance. It's clear that 24/7 care is no longer a question for her to debate. I need to reinstate hospice tomorrow since she had to be off to go to the hospital and will be arranging private aides. I'm spending the night in her house tonight but I got kids... I can't be her live in aide.

Also at the hospital when they did scans for the fall they found the cancer has spread to lungs and elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Alter-eg0 on August 22, 2021, 12:58:02 PM
Man, that sounds really stressfull Armee.

I hope you're taking care of yourself, too!
Take care :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 22, 2021, 01:44:40 PM
so very sorry about the situation you're in, armee.  by the sound of it, you did  help your M out in her dying days.  i hope that can help dissipate the guilt you might have been feeling.  to my mind, you are doing exactly what was needed by and for her, you did it with a generous, caring heart, and for whatever reason she allowed you to do so.  these emotional lfip-flops of hers are tough to gauge, but you have continued to offer help no matter what.  that is not the sign of a garbage daughter.

even if it finally gets to be too much for you, and you have to separate yourself from you M (which sounds to me like self-care) everything you keep doing or trying to do shows that you have been a loving daughter.  please know that.  it's very evident to me, and to others here.   sending love and a hug filled with courage and strength. :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Dante on August 22, 2021, 04:59:32 PM
It sounds like many of us are trapped in the role of caregivers for M.  I can relate, have some very similar family dynamics.  It's hard to want to help someone who has so mistreated us.  I try to look at it as providing basic human compassion, instead of thinking about who it's for.  That helps me a little, but doesn't make the stresses of taking care of someone who fights me every step of the way any easier.  Hope you are able to take care of you!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 23, 2021, 05:30:31 PM
Armee,  :bighug:

You are handling this all with grace and compassion.
Quotebut I got kids... I can't be her live in aide

Yes. Keep navigating and staying afloat, walking that tight rope. You tenacity in the face of difficulty is outstanding.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 24, 2021, 04:53:39 AM
Thanks for all the support you've all kept me afloat by giving me a place to express the feelings and reactions many don't understand outside of this forum. And your kind affirming and understanding words make me feel cared for and seen in a way I can take in what you all say and believe it.

Her 1-3 month timeline is now 1-3 days
(or less) and the decline was shocking.

I felt enormous relief once everything that needed to be set up was set up and taken care of. Once she stopped fighting reality. I now have 24/7 aides, a hospital bed, oxygen and everything else she fought until the past 2 days.

Despite everything I am actually able to sit here and care for her tenderly since she is allowing it. I worry that writing that may be triggering for some. And if it is I'm sending you a big old hug that it is ok to not do that, too.

But what I think is important is that I can see it wasn't me pulling away or being mean or bad. It was me being pushed away. I would have been here. I can't really think I am mean and bad I don't think. We will see if it flares back up but I may have an easier time accepting I am not those things.

I've also seen that over the past 2 days what makes me cry (I normally don't cry at all except from shame)...is when someone expresses care toward me...emotional support. It makes me cry and breaks my heart. I mean, in a good ways but it's almost painful to feel that.

I think this will change once she passes but...hmm forgot what i was wanting to say.




Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 24, 2021, 10:41:37 AM
Armee, I am thinking of you during this time. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 24, 2021, 01:11:08 PM
ditto what rainy said.

i've often had the same reaction when given care, gentle words, and/or support.  good tears, but it can also be somewhat painful at times.  i think since that kind of caring has been so absent for so long, it's almost difficult to accept it.  but, i'm glad you're getting it, glad you're feeling it, even if it makes you cry.  i think more of that is the ticket.  i know it's getting easier for me to accept these things from people here and from my D now, but it's taken some time.  practice makes perfect, right?

my heart is with you in these final days, armee.  there is a big difference between not being there for someone out of meanness and not being there cuz you've been pushed away.  wonderful realization.  love and a hug filled with caring as you go thru this. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 24, 2021, 04:55:19 PM
Armee,

You're really come so far in the last months. You've let yourself be guided by your intuition and feel differently that you expected.
QuoteI now have 24/7 aides, a hospital bed, oxygen and everything else she fought until the past 2 days.
:applause:

Sending calm, peaceful, gentle thoughts your way.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 27, 2021, 02:30:59 AM
I'm slowly starting to catch up on people's journals and wish I could have provided more support to everyone the past few days.

My mom passed away yesterday morning. It was very very fast. It was in her home where she wanted. It was ridiculously hard work. The day I brought her home from the hospital she went from walking and living independently to needing to be in a wheelchair with full assistance getting into and out of the chair, to the next day being bed ridden in diapers and unable to swallow, and the following day being in the active dying process.

I have a lot to process around what happened but there was no attempt at closure by her. I gave her some closure but never received even though she had plenty of warning and time to do it.

I am now free, and free to mourn and be angry about the previous 4 decades. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 27, 2021, 06:03:35 AM
my dear armee,

my heart is with you.  i wish i had more to say at this time, but i'm sending lots of love and a hug filled with care, comfort, and support for what lies ahead.  you've been amazing thru this situation.  prayers flying for whatever is needed.   :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 27, 2021, 01:07:48 PM
Armee,

If you can accept virtual hugs, large or small, I send them. I also have been thinking of you constantly and am not sure I can offer anything except my care and concern. Your journey continues through this inexplicable life. I'm here for you. My hope is that you find, use and embrace all the resources you need.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on August 27, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
I am also here for you Armee, and offering you a supportive hug, if you want one  :hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: CactusFlower on August 27, 2021, 06:08:30 PM
Thinking of you, Armee, and offering hugs if you want them. Take it one day at a time. I've been through this process if you need to chat.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 29, 2021, 03:53:16 PM
 :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on August 29, 2021, 08:04:54 PM
Armee, I am thinking of you during this time. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on August 30, 2021, 04:07:27 AM
 :grouphug:

Thank you for the hugs and support.  My sis is still in town and my aunts are being awesome emotional supports and my cousin and sister in law are helping with my daughter. We're almost done clearing out the house, which we are powering thru before sis leaves.

It's done. The constant PTSD trigger. It's over. I may have more hardships...you never know what life will bring...but that trauma is now over. I feel my brain trying to process memories but not hanging onto anything long enough. But I can feel that part coming and it'll be bearable. Also almost perfect timing, T is midway through his EMDR training and already practicing with clients under good supervision. We'll start EMDR Sept 8. I think we'll be able to work through things with EMDR in a few months to half a year and then I think I'm good to go.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on August 30, 2021, 12:51:49 PM
Hey Armee,  :hug:

Whoa! warp speed can happen when people care. I'm SO happy your surrounded by emotional support from family. Clearing out the house so soon?!? Impressive. Totally. Completely!

Serendipity sometimes showers blessings..your T going through EMDR training, your relatives being in town, your strength to power through everything in the last months.

:yourock:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 01, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
It's been a week since my mom passed away. My sister I got the house mostly cleaned out. Save furniture and china and a few things that need to be dealt with. Luckily her house is immaculate and I'll just need to replace a couple screens and paint baseboards and shelves and then it should be good to go. Lots more to do on the paperwork side of things.

My sister left this morning to go back home and last night we through a casual memorial party for my mom in her backyard for her neighbors. We did it very last minute just planning that afternoon and sending out invitations over text. It turned out really just perfect. The neighbors were very sweet and loving and had been in the same position as us, watching her harm herself and trying to help but feeling pretty stuck. The only difference is they had golden child status and they didn't have decades of trauma that was being triggered by their interactions with her.

Physically I am exhausted. So exhausted. But emotionally I feel pretty at peace. The hopelessness and stuckness are gone. There's nothing I have to try to maneuver or figure out. I'm free to live my life without the trauma.

That said, my insomnia is back and I keep waking up from gruesome nightmares.

TW


Last night I dreamed my sister and I were helping my mom up her stairs, but instead of being disabled from illness it was from morbid obesity (a phase she went through, but has been thin for close to a couple decades now).  In the dream my mom was capable of walking up the steps but was intentionally pulling us down and so we loosely let go of her, not enough that she would fall but enough that she felt unsupported. In the dream she panicked and grabbed my sister around the throat and started strangling and choking and choking her. And I was still holding my mom up to keep her from falling backward and trying to figure out how to save my sister too.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 01, 2021, 07:41:52 PM
hey armee,

that dream sounds like your brain reprocessing the trauma you've gone thru with your M, as if now that she is gone, the threat, fear, anxiety and all the rest can now whisper away from your mind, but the gist of what you've gone thru with her is still floating around.  i think emdr will really help you with this - i know it's helped me a lot with various types of traumatic experiences - and your brain will soon be at peace.  sending love and a hug filled with letting the past be and staying there.   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 02, 2021, 05:01:00 PM
Armee,  :hug:

I'm firmly with san:
Quotethe gist of what you've gone thru with her is still floating around.

I had a similar experience after an "empty chair" technique years ago, after my M's death. IMO, having the perpetrator gone is allowing the mind to come up with all the years of repressed feelings. My mind had permission to express the reddest, hottest, most primitive anger which a person can feel. It didn't last. But occasionally, these things come up and although distressing, are a part of your mind's drive towards healing and wholeness. Just pamper yourself if you feel like it. or ease up on your to do list temporarily. Everyone has a different reaction to trauma, do what feels right for you.

Having that little memorial service was a good thing. Even pieces of it which were genuine and authentic help.

Allow that exhaustion, keep riding the waves of whatever comes. You've come through the worst of it.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on September 02, 2021, 05:56:10 PM
I've just caught up with your journal, Armee. Sending you love and support.
:bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 03, 2021, 04:34:08 AM
Always so much wisdom!

Snowdrop: thanks for catching up and for the hug.  :hug:

Bee; thank you for the reminder to accept this process.

San: you are 2000% right. Thank you.


I'm actually ok with the nightmares as I know it IS my brain processing stuff that wasn't safe to process before. I've been expecting this. I'm ticked off about the insomnia though! I had such bad insomnia for about 6 years and it finally went away about 6 months ago. I know it can be a vicious  cycle and don't want to ride that ride again.

But sweet hubby pulled the weighted blanket out of the closet and made the bed with it last night. It was such a caring act as he doesn't care for it. But he picked it out for me for christmas to help with the insomnia.💛💛💛

And last night was the first night in a week that I didn't startle awake from a nightmare. I had nightmares but they didn't wake me fully like they had been.

I had also been having terrible muscle knots and swelling and pain and that went away when my mom passed. Even though there is still lots of mundane stress. The psychological stress is gone. Today I was dealing with leave paperwork for work, the estate attorney, the investment attorney, real estate agent, signing my daughter up for covid testing, and cleaning up after her baking escapades, and driving my son to and from school and many other things. But no knots. I'm tired but I'm fine.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 03, 2021, 07:24:25 AM
 :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 03, 2021, 12:57:21 PM
Day 2 of weighted blanket, day 2 of not waking up from nightmares.  :cheer:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 03, 2021, 01:22:42 PM
Hallelujah! Wonderful respite from consciousness or unconsciousness!  :applause:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 03, 2021, 09:57:19 PM
*****TWs for upsetting content****

Reading responses to my post in "death of an abusive parent" is making me feel...stuff. Cared for I guess, and understood. Things that make me cry.

As I read these I also remembered a painful story a neighbor told me during our casual backyard memorial. That whenever they would hear an ambulance they would all think "oh no, is that [mom's name]?" And they'd start a text chain and then someone would write "yep, it's [mom's name]. She fell again." That story just broke my heart.

She just flagrantly ignored all safety precautions and fell with abandon. Out of bed, down her interior stairs over and over, backwards down her cement front steps. The last fall she took, the one that sent her to the hospital a couple weeks ago, was the backwards down her cement front steps one, which came on the heels of an exact same incident, hospital trip and all, just 3 weeks earlier. I learned she did not have her cane or her glasses on and she is pretty much blind without them.

Two days prior she had fallen out of bed (or something) in the middle of the night and refused to tell the lifeline alert system she needed help. Turns out she had broken a rib. So while I was caring for her on hospice, every time I had to turn her to change her or to prevent bed sores I had to roll her onto a painful broken rib.

Another story from a neighbor that same night...the one who would come over and pick her up off the floor and hide falls from me so my mom would keep trusting her to pick her up off the floor...my mom was apparently falling partially from nightmares that she would sleep run from, running/falling down her stairs. So the neighbor had suggested she put a lock on the inside of her bedroom door so she couldn't open it and run around the house in her sleep. But then when my mom fell a few weeks ago she couldn't get in to help her up.

I don't know what happened to my mom, other than her abusive first husband (my dad).

Oh. Gosh there's something else welling up now.

For those of you who read my first journal...there was a story about how she would write in her therapy journal about how she would commit suicide in front of her therapist's house and about a time me and my sister were dragged to an appointment with her therapist and grilled on how we felt about her suicidality while my mom was right there in the room and I was terrified and dissociated (didn't know what happened at the time, just that I wailed like an animal, felt like my head had been split open by lightening, and then everything went black).

Well, one day when I was at my mom's house a woman came by and was visibly shaken seeing my mom in the hospital bed. Turns out she is the person I knew as my mom's cleaner. Also turns out she is the person who replaced me giving my mom rides to appointments and bringing her lattes the last few months when my mom froze me out. That I found out before my mom died.

What I found out from her after she died was that this woman is also the daughter of that therapist. That she and my mom became friends because my mom loved her dad so much. I don't know what compelled this woman to share any of that. It was highly inappropriate. And also just weird.

Ok that's enough. Sorry for the deluge. Ugh. I need to shake it off.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 04, 2021, 12:58:27 AM
Armee, I appreciate you sharing this.   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 04, 2021, 02:55:14 PM
all those boundaries being crossed sounds weird to me as well.

i think it's amazing how one event can open a door behind which are so many stories, memories, situations, feelings, and discoveries.  just want to let you know we're here for you, we've got you while you make your way thru all this aftermath.  sending love and a hug filled with a big safety net, just in case you need it.   :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 04, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Thank you San. I may need that safety net at times.

TW

In cleaning out her house....her instrument of s.h. is all over the house multiples in every room and i keep finding them in unexpected places. I don't know why some bother me more than others. Like I had already gone through her whole house and had found probably 50 of them but then when i was sorting through the desk I found a pack of them a little different than the others and it just hit me really weird and hard. All are unused and I saw no evidence of her harming herself in her old age other than thru self neglect. So I don't know why it was so hard. It was not as gruesome as what I'd see as a kid. But it clearly brought me back there mentally.

EMDR will be good to get this stuff to the surface and then in the past.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 04, 2021, 07:30:58 PM
Armee,

that is hard to confront and process. I suspect I know exactly what you are talking about. Even when they might be used for practical useful purposes, the loaded context remains. If I'm wrong, disregard.

The fact that you've gone through this and have come out the "other side" is to inspiring and admirable to me. It takes a special kind of courage to endure.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 04, 2021, 07:47:31 PM
 :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: owl25 on September 04, 2021, 08:58:25 PM
Armee, I'm sorry for what you went through with your mom. It all sounds very overwhelming. The aftermath is a lot too. I hope the EMDR helps.  :bighug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 06, 2021, 05:58:07 AM
I'm done with her house. I have a few big things I couldn't get rid of that I had hubby help me move into the garage and the junk haulers will come pick that stuff up Tuesday morning. Everything else is ready for the real estate agents to swoop in.

I met a couple close friend/colleagues for drinks outdoors today. They know a bit more than thumbnail versions of my life but today I was able to summarize some of it all at once (like tell a narrative about it all). I usually mention things here or there but glossing over the details. Like "what about your dad?" would get answered with "I never met him, they separated before I was born." Today I answered "um well he was an abusive alcoholic and drug addict who tried to kill my mom when she was pregnant with me." What was more different was tears formed at my eyes as I spoke about things. Normally I would laugh like it was a joke. It's interesting...I'm feeling my sadness more and feeling tears starting to come, but I'm less sad in terms of how I actually carry myself and look to others.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 06, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
Armee, When I was reading your entry I noticed that it seems like you are able to release some of what you have carried.  I will be thinking of you as you take steps into this time. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 06, 2021, 12:28:05 PM
hey, armee,  a T once told me that people who laugh at terrible things in their lives are holding the tears in their smiles.  it's only when we stop smiling that the tears can finally fall.  it sounds like you reached that point, and, as sad/ possibly painful, as that might be, i believe those are healing tears.  i glad for you.  seems to me that you are truly moving on from this whole situation.  what a wonderful gift you're giving yourself.  love and a hug filled with progress. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 07, 2021, 04:36:04 AM
Oh my goodness I am so so so tired.

So I finished emptying my mom's  house yesterday and while I was driving home my husband informed me that he found cockroaches in our daughter's bedroom in broad daylight and mouse poop in our basement. Uuuuuggghhh.

Their rooms are kids rooms and kinda gross but like not THAT bad and I clean my kitchen every day. My theory is that a spot opened up when we did our foundation work and lifted the house as we have new cracks and gaps all over. So now I've been going on a mad rampage cleaning every square inch of the kids room's and that is taking forever and there's no rest.

My feet hurt so bad. Its been 3 weeks of absolute nonstop. First round the clock caretaking, then cleaning out my mom's house at warp speed and now pest control central.

Not to mention the rest of my house is normally neat but right now looks like a disaster zone because I've brought a bunch of stuff from my mom's house and haven't had time to organize and find a spot for it.

😭😭😭😭😭😭
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 07, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
ugh!  and another ugh!  i've had to deal w/ that kind of thing as well and it really is no fun.  it is exhausting, stressful, and might even be maddening.

wishing you some peace, and soon.  love and a hug filled with rest. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: owl25 on September 07, 2021, 03:06:14 PM
That sounds absolutely exhausting and the last thing you need right now. Maybe the best thing to do is to focus on the essentials, and worry about the rest later (as best as one can when dealing with pests)? I would be totally overwhelmed as well.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 07, 2021, 06:31:02 PM
Armee,

Kr@p! No pun intended about the mice and cockroaches. This comes at the absolute worst, worst time.  :fallingbricks:

I'm so sorry. If I could, I'd suit up, bring a bucket, mop, gloves and mask to join in the efforts.

I instinctively know this is not "funny" per se; but am so glad you were able to voice reality, even if it was prefaced with "um. well"  :cheer: :applause:  :hug:

Quote"um well he was an abusive alcoholic and drug addict who tried to kill my mom when she was pregnant with me."
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 08, 2021, 04:13:50 AM
Thanks for the pest control empathy! I haven't seen any today at least. Maybe they already poisoned themselves!

The junk hauler came today and took the last of the furniture and garbage from my mom's house.  :cheer:

I've continued to feel more emotions, not about her passing, but about the past.

And I start EMDR tomorrow afternoon and am so anxious. Not so much about the EMDR itself but the part where you are supposed to come up with 3 target memories.  I have always frozen when my T asks me something about my past like "and does that remind you of something that happened before?" type questions. My dissociation keeps me from being able to get in there and answer the question, and when I do have memories , all but a few are extremely sparse. And I feel a little stupid because I asked my T to get EMDR training but I don't even know what to work on. We'll work through it, I know. I just hate the freeze response in reaction to any question about memories.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on September 08, 2021, 07:33:43 AM
Hi Armee,
I just wanted to wish you the best for your EMDR session.  Maybe just focusing on a particular age that you were, rather than a specific memory might be a potential, but I don't know how specific they might wish you to be.  I relate to what you're saying about the freeze response, I get that so often, and my memories for my childhood are also really fragmented. 

You have been through so many things this last few days, taken on so many emotive things, and I wanted to send you a supportive hug  :hug: 
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 08, 2021, 02:16:13 PM
Thanks Hope. I appreciate you saying that.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 08, 2021, 02:54:49 PM
hey, armee, as an emdr therapist, and also working with one right now, it can be very different from what you've been used to with other types of therapy.  specific memories don't necessarily have to be revisited at any time, or possibly a piece of a feeling about a memory can be a target to process.  you, the client, run the show, lead the way, can stop and start when it feels right for you.  this is your process, you hold the reins.  you can also keep a target as small or as large as you feel comfortable with.  i think the main thing is to be as honest w/ your T as possible.  that's what gives her info as to where and how to tackle anything else.

standing right beside you, armee.  sending love and a hug filled with calm. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 08, 2021, 03:59:02 PM
 :hug:

Thanks San. That helps. I told my T too how I was feeling. His response was he's learning too and we're in this together.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 09, 2021, 12:57:57 AM
We got a good way through EMDR today. I did end up dissociating during the eye movements though so we didn't get to the resolution part. It was after maybe 3 sets of eye movements.

I am not sure if it is because I was getting closer to feeling emotions during the eye movements which tends to make me dissociate or if it is because during the prior set before I dissociated I had the thought "make it stop I want it to stop. stop stop stop" which in the past that thought has made me massively dissociate. I think it's like a trigger thought for me to start dissociating. It's not intentional but I probably trained myself to do that as a kid.

T noticed it before I reported it to him because he said my eyes stopped moving side to side and started spinning in circles and I looked lost. But there was something different about it where normally I get a loud buzzing in my head but instead this time I didn't and instead I had these weird tingles up and down my neck and head.

I also asked my T if he thought I could get stress leave to take a couple months off work. I was a little afraid to ask because he is not a coddler and he's never quite explicitly diagnosed me with anything. He's had me read books on PTSD, he's had me attend a trauma retreat, he's talked about my symptoms being very severe and like a soldier, but when I've asked straight out if I have PTSD he has wavered a little saying "it's like PTSD but a little different because its complex trauma." So I've sort of taken liberty to assume he means complex PTSD but also have felt sheepish like I don't have permission to say I have PTSD.

But today he was very straightforward. He said absolutely it's appropriate to take time off to process this stuff and to heal from PTSD, which is absolutely what it is. It's not a stretch its 100% the truth and he wished only that I could have taken the time off earlier. And that he would sign any paperwork I needed...but that he would then need to give me a diagnosis. So, I feel relieved 1. That I have professional confirmation that it is what I think and 2. That I can take paid sick leave to recover from the repeated triggers of the past 6 years.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 09, 2021, 02:03:51 AM
I hope that the leave offers you what you need in this time.  There is a lot to go through without the added pressure of work. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 09, 2021, 05:13:47 PM
wow!  great work, armee.  i'm glad your T is seeing what you're going thru for what it is.  i've had both ptsd and c-ptsd symptoms/triggers, so i know both can be working on our brains at the same time.  here's to some well-deserved time off and health-giving progress in your process.  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 09, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
I'm still pretty dissociated today...hasn't lifted by noon, since the emdr last night. It doesn't make so much sense to me as I didn't remember any additional details and felt little emotion. I want to remember and feel things. And yet my brain just seems to step in and take the reins. There's no longer a threat to me remembering or feeling things. They are all dead now there's simply no repercussion to feeling that anger and hurt anymore. But I know....acceptance and pacing. It will come. And I am encouraged by the tingling that came with the dissociation last night because I think that may be a sign that parts of my brain are activating and starting to connect.

Bee's post made me think about my own experiences with needing to excel. I remember I just flat out ran myself into the ground during grad schoolx while i was working, taking care of my kids, and caretaking my mom while she was off her medications and healing from broken bones. And yet despite it all, I got straight As with the exception of one A- because I knew more than the teacher on the subject and his test answers were incorrect (I am a national expert on the subject). Since I gave the right answers instead of his answers I got marked down on the final exam.

Unlike Bee, I don't strive because I see my worth as tied up in being smart and worthy. For me it is that I see myself as stupid and in order to do ok...to overcome my stupidity...I have to work really really hard and put in my best. And I have to do more and more of that the smarter people think I am or they will think I misled them.

The reason I believe I am stupid is frankly because of dissociation....past and present. It's hard to feel smart when your brain is blank and inaccessible so often. People think i am smart because they see what I do when my brain is connecting but they don't see the other times. It comes across more like I am the absent minded professor or so busy or brilliant that I'm sometimes spacey. And what I really want is for people to see me as stupid so don't feel like such an imposter and I can stop trying so hard. But also I know I am not stupid either. This is a really tricky one for me.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 09, 2021, 07:15:01 PM
Armee,

These are some statements I noticed: may I propose some theories?

1.
QuoteThere's no longer a threat to me remembering or feeling things.
It is true that the primary threat which might be the reason you have trouble remembering or feeling is "no longer", but there are parts of yourself which haven't "gotten the memo", so be generous with yourself as you take time to process.

2.
QuoteI just flat out ran myself into the ground during grad school
Exhaustion and running yourself into the ground is burnout. You probably already know that, but it can also take time to recover from it, and some parts may not in the same way as you experienced them before.

3.
QuoteThe reason I believe I am stupid is frankly because of dissociation....past and present. It's hard to feel smart when your brain is blank and inaccessible so often
Perceptions of intellect change over time, and right now, you might "believe" you are stupid, but in objective reality, that's not the case. I agree 150% that dissociation causes blankness and inaccessibility. As that lessens, other skills will improve.

4.
Quotewhat I really want is for people to see me as stupid so don't feel like such an imposter
Many trauma writers talk about "imposter syndrome" which is caused by the splitting of the self and Fisher calls it "internal alienation." There is hope and the answer may be in integration. That happens slowly, over time too.

Your writing, thoughts and abilities to navigate and continue through horrendous circumstances all weigh on the side of the scale which is not "stupid." Could you think about another more neutral word which lacks judgment?

Finally, the finest trauma writers, including Bessel Van Der Kolk, definitely throw their weight behind the concept of right brain processing when children experience continued threats to survival. Words and a narrative are never formed because that part of the brain is not developed yet. It's common for traumatized people, regardless of age to be "without words." This is often interpreted by those affected by a "blank" mind.

P.S. Everything I've said here also applies to my experience, as I've lived it. No high horse, just one person to another.  :hug:
This feels a bit risky for me, so if I step over any line, speak out.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 09, 2021, 08:14:55 PM
I love every bit of what you have written Bee and until I got to your last line was just feeling um...i guess guilty (for taking your time), ashamed because I haven't been able to really give in return lately, but deeply honored to receive your wisdom. It's the thing that makes me cry predictably... when someone shows care toward me, in this case taking time to hear what I am struggling with and respond in depth with great insight.

Insight 1 is probably quite true, and an insight I would not have come to on my own. Not at all. It's part of my way I've kept going. Everything is ok right now so keep moving. And that's what has gotten me to burnout land and so I also appreciate your Insight 2. I hadn't thought about it before but you pointing it out to me probably will make that acceptance easier to find when this truth bites me on the tush.

Insight 3...yeah that falls in the realm of EFs versus normal. Normal brain knows I'm not really stupid but that functioning in a chronic state of dissociation and untreated trauma can cause some difficulties with processing and executive functioning. But when under threat in the form of receiving praise for my work performance those thoughts that I am stupid feel very real and very protective.

Insight 4 gives me the most to think about. I know this is true. I know the core issue is my brain...I can feel it...is separated and some of those pieces can't talk to each other, and some parts of the brain are just completely locked up to me. And it doesn't make sense...the traumas were not the kind that should have had that affect, and it does make sense as I have nearly every risk factor for developing dissociation. So yes, integration as you write, is the answer and I think that last missing link for me.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 09, 2021, 08:34:43 PM
Oh... :'(   Armee.

I'm not sure what part of the last line got you, but I meant that I didn't want to sound "preachy" or "know it all." The thought of it being perceived like that made me anxious. I'm glad you think the things I say are worthwhile, and if they light the way, even a little bit, all the better. There is no contractual agreement or unstated expectation. You don't need to return or reciprocate. Period.

As time goes on, I learn more and more from people here. Your experiences and feelings help me sort out my own stuff.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 09, 2021, 08:44:53 PM
Sorry. My writing is not so clear some days. I didn't quite finish the thought. I was feeling guilty and ashamed about taking space and receiving so much good from you. And then got to your last line...that you felt a little anxious about how your insights might come across and realized we are all just here trying to help each other and ourselves and then who ever might be lurking and learning. Your last line just sort of washed away the guilt and shame I had been feeling about receiving from you.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 09, 2021, 10:17:16 PM
Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 10, 2021, 03:58:15 PM
As I'm starting to catch up on the urgent tasks my days are getting ever so slightly quieter. I still have a ton to do and haven't paid any of her bills or dealt with the finances yet.  But I'm starting to make a dent in the pile of urgent things and wonder how the quietness will sit with me.

I spent a few minutes in bed today thinking about emdr and some memories that might be good to practice with. While I did this i had my eyes closed and was moving them back and forth and I ended up getting a couple flashes of images that may be related to stuff. They were ever so brief and non contextual but enough to give me hope that emdr may help with what I hope it will help with. Which frankly isn't so much about resolving trauma as it is about breaking through my dissociative barriers. I don't really care about the installation of positive thoughts yet. I just want my brain to work.

My life now fully belongs to me and my little family that I love. I don't need to give anything to any more toxic people ever again. No one currently in my life is like that and I never need to let one in again and if I accidentally do, I can kick them out.  That's a freedom that is too big to wrap my head around fully but it feels amazing. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 10, 2021, 06:44:37 PM
hey, armee, so glad to hear you're thinking emdr will be helpful. be careful doing eye movements on your own, especially after having a dissociative session so soon before.  gentle advice - speak to your T about it, make sure it's safe for you to do it yourself. said with love and caring.  i really love to hear the hope in your voice, tho.  so positive.  love and hugs :hug:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 10, 2021, 07:42:11 PM
Thanks for the warning, San, and for looking out for us here. I'll be careful. I'm just too guarded in therapy for anything to happen so it was nice to know I can generate some connections that way.

TW....religious + SA...actually I get a little detailed and it probably isn't good to read.

Bee's post about the arsonist kind of triggered me a little or maybe a lot. It was the religious/cult stuff. It took me 2+ years in therapy to work up to telling my T about this. And then it wasn't really so much a choice but due to some intense long lasting body and smell and emotional flashbacks that were triggered when we did some experimentation with somatic experiencing on something totally unrelated or so I thought. The flashbacks got so bad I had to tell him. Still it took me 2 months to work up to and through telling him.

At the end of it  T called it rape. I don't see it that way exactly. But it was violent and painful and cruel. And that violence l realized, while I was working through the process of sharing it with my T, came from purity culture as my boyfriend was fundamentalist. He actually seems to have literally thought I was satan and he was fighting me..fighting evil, the devil...and took joy from hurting me. I just didn't quite understand at the time.

I've always thought it was my fault, I asked for it, etc. But I didn't ask to be hurt, to be treated that way. I didn't say stop, but I shrieked in pain and he laughed and compared me to a farm animal. And now my thought is:  how could someone who said he loved me do that to me? I was so sweet and kind and loving. But the way he was raised...it was to view me as evil, as satan himself. 

T told me how to fix the symptoms from that experience that have lingered for 20 years, working slowly with my H to regain my power and sense of control. But I couldn't do what he suggested to get better so I just let it go instead of finishing processing it. I seem to need to do more with that though. Stomach meet pit.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 10, 2021, 09:00:35 PM
 :hug: Armee

QuoteI don't need to give anything to any more toxic people ever again.
The boundary, clarity and finality of this is so strong. I love it.

Yes, stomach meet pit. It's very brave to think, write and consider it all.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 11, 2021, 07:04:56 PM
Took a nice walk with the hub and dog this morning and am now sanding our front steps to stain them. Hosed em off and waiting for them to dry so I can finish up.

An example popped up this morning of the disconnect between what I am aware of and what is actually happening.

I was out walking with my husband and dog this morning. We started talking about vacation and I mentioned we should go to x national park because both kids want to go back. I felt happy and excited about planning it. Nothing but awareness of good things. We've been once and loved it.

But a minute later after the conversation I had crippling and very strange feeling pain in my leg out of nowhere and I was looking around for a cause. Then I realized my body was sending up warning signs about the vacation plans. Even though I know 100% my son is OK now and I am not aware of any level of worry because I've treated this fear in therapy for years now and feel good about it, and he's gotten treatment and is a complerely different  super well-adjusted happy kid...somewhere I am apparently still terrified even though I don't FEEL scared or worried at all.

Because this is the place he planned to jump off a cliff when he was 11 to commit suicide. That was 4 years ago and he is all better. I had no awareness that I am upset by this still but my body tells another story. As soon as I figured out the pain must be from talking about visiting that place and acknowledged that to my husband, it went away.

I'm just dumbfounded but these things keep happening. No awareness of feeling something but the body reactions or dissociation are there and tell the truth. 

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 11, 2021, 08:49:03 PM
Ah Armee I'm not allowed to type bad words.

Thank God your body kept the score, and what a score it is. I'm so sorry.

Your willingness to look closer and just be with it, until it revealed itself, is how this stuff happens. Your body is taking care of you and helping you realize truth.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 12, 2021, 01:27:40 AM
Thank you, Bee.  :hug: that was perfectly stated.

I only wish I had more awareness of what was in my brain, instead of my brain needing to speak through my body. It's unsettling to be so out of touch with what's happening in there.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 12, 2021, 01:25:55 PM
i completely relate to the body keeping the score, armee.  it has done so for me for many years now.  thankfully, as i've worked thru some issues, there is less score for it to keep now.  but, yeah, those things can pop up at any time, with no forethought, and just slam us.  i'm just so glad you're son is out of that woods now, and also that you were able to recognize your reaction was related to him. 

as for your fundamentalist 'friend' (and i use the word loosely), i'd have to agree with your T as to the nature of that encounter.  you may not have vocally said 'no' or 'stop', but you also didn't want to be treated like that, nor did you deserve to be.  that was not mutually desired, even if you couldn't speak your truth at the time.  it was about power and control.

sending love and a hug filled with continued realizations so your body doesn't have to bear such a burden in the future. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 12, 2021, 04:23:56 PM
I have a stack of sympathy cards that have poured in from mostly work colleagues. I'm avoiding opening them. They've been sitting in a pile for a good week or two. Part of it may be avoiding the guilt of not being sad but mostly its avoiding the painful feeling of feeling people's care for me. That hurts so bad.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 12, 2021, 04:24:45 PM
Thank you, San for understanding and for standing up for me against my own brain.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 12, 2021, 05:55:24 PM
Armee, I noticed your mention about the sympathy cards.  I felt in my heart your dilemma as I would feel the same.  I hope you find a way to move through those cards and any subsequent interactions with others in a way that honors what you need right now. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 12, 2021, 11:45:16 PM
Thanks for understanding, Rainy.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 13, 2021, 12:11:06 PM
Hi Armee,

Is it worth considering there's two paths here?

One starts with should and leads to prolonging feelings you'd rather not experience now. The other is more radical and might lead to a shredder or basket.

If you follow the first path, would it be possible to disengage by responding in a neutral, brief way? Something like: "Thank you for your care and concern" This way, all the attention is on them, not you.

Letting those cards sit, especially within your daily sight (seems to me) to be a hindrance to your peace of mind. If you think you might feel like responding later, tuck them away, until that time comes. If in your heart you know you will NEVER want to respond in any way, then there's more options.

It's all on your healing journey, how can you best go forward?  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 13, 2021, 03:53:44 PM
Your suggestions Bee made it very clear to me that i know what the issue is. It isn't the words of sympathy rubbing up against my feelings of relief or any guilt about that. It is wholly about the discomfort with receiving care from others. Thanks for helping with the clarity!!!

I am feeling triggered today. And it isn't really about my mom, though I guess it is, too. Part of it is about SA and not knowing what box to put things in and not understanding why that matters. Some is about memories I have that are partial...I know how they start but not how they end and so I don't actually know what happened.

And part is my daughter freaked out last night and today and that scares me her emotions can be really intense. But at least I can logically see I must be afraid even though my dominant feelings are guilt and shame i can tell myself I know that under it all is the core fear and that is the PTSD talking.

And at least now I have the potential for emdr to help.  Because using cognitive behavioral therapy I've gone as far as I can. Logically I know things are ok but the emotions are still there but buried, needing to catch up.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 13, 2021, 06:13:59 PM
i'm glad you're still sounding hopeful about emdr being able to help you continue on your path to health and wellness.  i have no doubt you'll have more understanding about which box to put what in soon.  love and hugs, armee. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 13, 2021, 07:26:01 PM
I got the feels today.

The Secret Garden part of the compost thread...has me feeling so sad.

I'm sad for my kids. I'm sad they don't have a grandparent who can read to them. My mom wouldn't do stuff like that for them. She took their mom from them and didn't give anything back. I'm sad their two grandfathers gave a legacy I don't want to tell them about. I'm sad one of them was a good grandpa and a good person but only one of the grandkids got to meet him (my son). I'm sad the other didn't care enough about anyone but himself that he would do the things he did. I'm sad the remaining grandparent is such a kind peaceful person but lives across the world.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Libby183 on September 14, 2021, 07:56:44 AM
Hi Armee.

I just wanted to drop by and wish you well with your EMDR treatment. It is a really difficult process, and at the time, I wasn't sure that it had helped very much. But looking back, I feel sure that it is a very powerful treatment. I truly believe that it dealt with my childhood trauma, leaving me able to get through the situation with my husband.

I really like the way that you talk of not having anyone toxic in your life at the moment. That sounds like a recipe for success in the future. I think once we get to that stage, it is a real milestone in our recoveries.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 14, 2021, 03:12:32 PM
Thanks Libby.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 14, 2021, 05:26:40 PM
Ack I thought i posted something today with trigger warnings but its not here and now I feel really guilty that maybe it was flagged for review and I upset someone. But I may have also sabotaged myself from even posting it, lol. If I made anyone uncomfortable with any posting I am sorry. :(

On a separate topic...I was just blindsided by a call from the mortuary...we were planning on having cremains sent to my mom's sister to hold onto for us until we can scatter because we just couldn't fathom handling those ourselves. There was a place on the form and everything for where to mail. They just called me and said they were ready for pickup and they don't mail them. I'm not ready to do that and I didn't want them in my house. 😭
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 14, 2021, 06:32:29 PM
Oh Armee!

That's horrible! I'm sorry. It would be different if you'd asked and wanted them, but not too much different, because ashes/remains/urns/boxes whatever you wanna call it, are strange and uncomfortable. I know cause I've had them in brown plastic.

So, you didn't ask, and I'm just saying.....if you have a garage, a crawlspace, a shed, anything to keep that physical boundary. Just thoughts.

You're going to get through this, you're almost done. I'm with you.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 16, 2021, 05:07:42 AM
Bee I've gone through those locations in my head. Ugh none feel ok! I could drive them to my aunt's house. I still have to pick them up though. Ugh it all feels bad. I haven't picked her up yet.

I had a big yucky triple trigger two nights ago and ended up passing out frozen shaking speechless and dissociated so badly in front of H. I feel embarrassed.

My T is trying to help me figure out how to treat this so it doesn't happen as much but really his training is how to fix my negative thoughts so I don't feel bad that it happens. But I want it to stop. I don't want to fix my thoughts about it, I want to fix IT. I don't want to accept being reduced to a shaking dissociated puddle without any explanation. Anyway I had sent him an article by Janina Fischer on adapting EMDR for dissociation and he said he was going to reach out to her to ask about consultation. He really wants to learn more about treating complex trauma and I actually prefer working with someone who is learning.

I was feeling already very dissociated and shaken today so we skipped the EMDR today and did more cognitive stuff.

Little family is good. And my stack of unopened sympathy cards continues to grow. I feel like an ***.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 16, 2021, 10:41:15 AM
Armee, I hope that you find the root of this.  It is so disorienting to dissociate and experience things now that are most likely about the past and not see why. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 16, 2021, 02:23:04 PM
Thank you, Rainy.  :hug:

And that's weird rereading now what I wrote after seeing your response, I didn't mean to write this:

Quote from: Armee on September 16, 2021, 05:07:42 AM
I don't want to accept being reduced to a shaking dissociated puddle without any explanation.

2 of the 3 triggers I know exactly what they are from. The third is a mystery trigger that has no home and has gotten me before.


Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 16, 2021, 02:26:59 PM
Armee,

:bighug: (sigh) It feels so bad to read your post. I can fully appreciate the "disintegration", since I've experienced it myself. That's really proactive of you to connect your T to Janina.  She may have some thoughts on it.

It may be the cumulative effect of the past months which caused this. And it may be that the ashes were the straw that either caused a backup of all the emotions, or just the weight of a "cherry on top" which although not physically heavy, presents a very symbolic and weighty issue. The whole mountain came down. I get mad at the unfairness of it all, considering everything from day one. That doesn't solve anything, I know.

If possible, be kind to yourself. Not sure how you feel about that. By kind, I mean, say no to requests, say yes to rest. Say no to anything that doesn't absolutely need to be done. Say yes to delegating even the simplest things. I'm sure you are the same person inside, but one or more parts of yourself are feeling pain. Don't know which ones, only you do.

You're gonna make it through and learn something from all of it too. Perhaps even a small sliver lining.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 17, 2021, 05:15:07 AM
 :hug:

Thank you Bee for saying that. For acknowledging the yucky feelings and the weight of many things adding up. And for giving a name to what happened as "disintegration"...that is what it feels like, like mental and physical body just disintegrated.

What happened there with H was related to the fundamentalist boyfriend situation from 20 years ago. Even though I feel 100% safe with my H, the specific triggers still have the ability to take over even though I feel safe and it happens periodically but this time was extra bad because there were three triggers back to back. It's frustrating as all get out to not have that control over my reactions.

But the ashes situation did take up residence in my neck muscles. So that is also playing around in my head and body.

I'm going to take my sick leave paperwork to my primary caregiver as T ended up thinking it's better for these to be from an MD. I briefly described the situation over messaging and my doctor said it was perfectly reasonable for her to sign off on me taking a couple months of sick leave,  so I'll take that paperwork by her office tomorrow morning.

In clarifying the diagnosis with T before making the request with my primary dr he was very explicit that the correct diagnosis is complex PTSD. I feel relieved that I haven't been incorrectly self-diagnosing.

I'm not remotely ready to go back to work and it feels weird because it's a long period for grieving esp considering there have been many tragic deaths for my colleagues and they have come back quickly.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 17, 2021, 10:06:40 AM
Armee, it's so powerful in all ways that you are asking for sick leave, doing it through an MD and allowing yourself some breathing space.  :applause: Yeah, you! 

Comparing grieving time periods is :stars:. Everybody is different like apples, oranges, avocados and tangerines, kiwis, kumquats, tomatoes. 

I'm glad to read that you can separate the periodic triggers and their rapid fire succession from your objective view of your H. I think that helps a lot. Maybe not as much as you want it to, but still very very important to you and your marriage.

Slow gentle movement of the neck is recommended by credentialed people.  (not me) :bigwink:

Hang in there.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on September 17, 2021, 11:59:57 AM
Well done for asking for sick leave. It must have felt validating for your doctor to say it was reasonable.

Your colleagues may have come back quickly, but as Bee says, everyone is different. Plus you have the added extra of cptsd, which makes everything harder.

Sending you gentle hugs of support. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 17, 2021, 03:56:31 PM
Thank you snowdrop and bee.  :grouphug:

Bee i love the advice for slow gentle movement. I'm going to let that be my mantra today. Not just for my neck.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on September 18, 2021, 06:36:50 PM
Hi Armee,
I've read some things you've written in the last few days, and wanted to say that I admire your strength and resiliency through all of the things you've encountered and faced, and I'm glad that you've got some support regarding your sick leave, and I would like to send you some supportive hugs  :hug: :hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 18, 2021, 10:55:15 PM
Phew. My T is in his training for EMDR this weekend and had some questions about our last/first EMDR attempt to bring to the class for coaching. Just going thru that on text replayed the whole scenario down to a seemingly unrelated reaction. So it must be connected. He also was learning about EMDR for preverbal stuff so we went thru the circumstances of that period too. San he brought up needing to learn flash emdr and going slow and gentle and I remember that was what you recommended too.

The dissociation has been bad this week but I learned something new and helpful. I've always used nature and senses to ground but this variation helps. So often when I notice I'm slipping into dissociation it happens super fast and I don't see it coming and am having no distressing thought. So my normal reaction once I notice is something like "no no no why is this happening? What happened?" And then i sink deeper and get stuck.

Instead... no thoughts just action. T handed me a rock and told me to smash it on the table to make a loud sound. I really did not want to do that because my body just wanted to disappear not be loud. But that trick has stuck with me this week. I just immediately do something to make a sound no matter how badly i don't want to. Don't even think "wait what's happening???" The dissociation may keep coming back again and again but I don't sink so deep.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on September 19, 2021, 01:45:19 PM
 :applause: :applause: :applause:

Yeah to you and your T!

QuoteInstead... no thoughts just action. T handed me a rock and told me to smash it on the table to make a loud sound. The dissociation may keep coming back again and again but I don't sink so deep.

I'm smiling as I read this because you did it, and have adopted it as your (maybe temporary, maybe permanent) method. The point is, it worked and that's valuable and Gr-r-r-r-e-a-t! To echo Tony the Tiger!  :hug:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 20, 2021, 03:28:03 PM
I think my coworker friend is going to go with me maybe today to get my mom's ashes. I know once I have them here and in a place it'll be ok. It's just the act of getting them and bringing them into my home that is hard. Like...another boundary crossed. I had decided I wasn't going to take them and would ship them instead but the mortuary blindsided me saying they wouldn't ship them.

But anyway friend's mom is mentally ill too, abandoned her when she was 3 but then came back in touch and she'd have to go hang out with her mom when she was a kid and didn't want to. Now mom is older and friend understands the lack of love and I can just speak truthfully.

Yuck.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 21, 2021, 04:23:31 AM
Picked up the ashes today and now they live in my house.

My colleague accompanied me and kept me distracted and grounded. I feel so lucky to have so many wonderful people around me and willing to help if I am just vulnerable enough to let them know I am struggling.

My doctor called today and she filled out my sick leave paperwork for 2 months (start date was sept 1) and said she is happy to extend it another month if needed but advised to start with 2 in case something happens and I need the 3rd allowable month for something else. I'll pick it up tomorrow and submit to my bosses.

I feel a little guilty but also I just simply can't work right now. Not from grief but from complete mental and physical  exhaustion. I never would have fathomed needing more than a month off cause normally I can just push and push and push through anything. But now I think recovery is tantalizingly close and I don't want to push at the expense of getting to a better place.

TW self harm fear/others


Today I remembered an upsetting dream i had in the last few nights I don't even remember when. It felt really real so much I had to reassure myself today it was not real. It involved my daughter scratching her arms up really badly. I've put so much work into healing this fear and it is so much better but then it still shows up often.

I also think i wrote this a couple days ago and deleted it but I realized that I had seen some cuts on my mom's thighs when I changed her diapers.  My thought at the time when I saw them while she was alive was "oh mom you were in so much pain. Your thighs, too."

But what I realized a day or two ago was there were only a few on her thighs, contrasted with her arm which was so so bad. I realized she chose to put it somewhere we could see. I know that says more about how much pain she was in than her not caring about her kids and yet....that realization kind of got to me. She didn't choose to be in so much pain but she chose how much we saw.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 21, 2021, 12:02:04 PM
Armee, it sounds like there is so much to process.  I hope that time away from work is supportive. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Papa Coco on September 21, 2021, 12:31:16 PM
Hey Armee,

I'm so glad your coworker went with you to pick up the ashes. Having an ally by our side can make such a difference in what we can bear. I'm also touched by all the positive friendship you have on this forum. More allies.

That's good news that you can take a couple months off from work. I agree with your statement that recovery may be tantalizingly close. Once my parents passed, and I had successfully broken free from all my manipulative, dishonest siblings, my healing took on a whole new energy. I describe it as, you can't start healing train crash survivors until after the train stops crashing. Once my abusers were finally out of my life and their manipulative voices finally left my head, only the voices of my friends and allies were left and my healing finally got traction.

I know feeling guilty about things is part of having CPTSD, so I hope you are able to get past any and all feelings of guilt, and focus on yourself now. You've been an amazing daughter. You have so much to be proud of just by being the kind, compassionate soul that you are. May you soar with the wind now, and may the next few months off work be just what you need to clear the way for a whole new trajectory toward your well-deserved healing.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 24, 2021, 09:48:47 PM
Thank you Rainy for the empathy and Papa Coco for the reassurance about guilt and encouragement about progress once contact is over.

---
Today would be my mom's 70th birthday and tomorrow is the 1 month anniversary. I felt pretty raw yesterday on that and many other fronts.

I did my second session of EMDR with my therapist today and this time he had learned and tried the flash technique and it actually worked remarkably well. I am so encouraged by what happened.

At first I thought it was bull and that it was going to be more about saying whatever to make the therapist happy. But what happened was it let me connect different emotions to the event and actually feel them without being overwhelmed and dissociating.

We didn't get to the point of taking away the distress completely but my goal is not just to not be distressed but to reconnect parts of my brain and emotions and this did it. Normal EMDR I dissociated from and so couldn't do that processing.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Papa Coco on September 24, 2021, 10:41:32 PM
Wow. I am very glad to hear the EMDR made such a noticable difference for you.

I know we'll never be as healthy as if the abuse had never happened to us, but the goal that I cherish is when I can feel better today than I did a year ago today. I absolutely see the improvement from one year to the next. And it appears you've begun to see some incremental improvements also.

Enjoy your time off. Thanks for reporting the success of your EMDR/Flash technique appointment. It gives us all hope for ourselves when we see each other find improvements also.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 25, 2021, 02:32:48 AM
Armee, I appreciate your intention of connecting to the your brain and emotions.  I hope you continue to find ways to connect and to also find ease. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 26, 2021, 04:50:53 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 26, 2021, 03:16:37 PM
It's lovely to get a hug from you, San.  :hug:

I startled awake again from another disturbing nightmare. I have 4 themes of nightmares and this one blended two of them. One of which is my most disturbing theme and the hardest for me to understand. At the end of it I was screaming "no."

But between being startled awake by my screaming and opening my eyes and jumping out of bed I had a series of images quickly flashing through my brain. I was awake so it wasn't quite dreams. I take it as maybe an encouraging sign that perhaps my brain is going to offer up some connections and maybe even allow me to see images.

It's an experiment in a way but I trust myself and my T to navigate any issues that come up.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 27, 2021, 02:13:47 AM
Armee, I am thinking of you as you explore the images and dreams that are coming up. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 27, 2021, 03:13:06 PM
hey, armee,

so glad that flash technique worked well for you - it's been a blessing for me as well, especially when processing something about my ex.  for some reason thoughts/memories of him can be so overwhelming, also to the point of dissociating.  so very glad your T has invested in this technique.  so happy for you!

i've been noticing, too, that i'm able to connect emotions/feelings during dreams or near dreams, even if i can't feel them in real life.  our brains are so amazing.  i wouldn't doubt some of this stuff you're experiencing is because your brain is being activated differently thru the emdr processing.  i have faith in you and your T as well, to navigate all your experiencing.  well done, my dear!  sending love and a hug filled with hope. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 29, 2021, 07:30:33 AM
Thank you both.  :hug:

I had another really positive experience with flash EMDR Monday. I went to therapy and T asked what had come up since our previous session  and I mentioned some positive feeling and also the graphic imagery that matched a prior hallucination and that I had a really disturbing nightmare. I thought I'd be able to tell him about the nightmare but I couldn't....it was too upsetting to think about telling him.

So we ended up experimenting with using flash EMDR just on the fear of telling him. It took maybe 30 minutes of processing that fear but eventually I got to a place where my brain told me "he's probably safe to tell" and I was just able to say it.

I mean I was still upset and stuff saying it but I've been having nightmares like this for over a year and haven't been able to tell him though this latest one took it up about 100 notches.

More remarkably I was worried he'd think I was stupid and anxious for being upset by a bad dream but no. He really validated why it was upsetting and heard the message underneath and responded to both the dream and the underneath part. I don't know what it all means but I felt really safe.

I have a session with my T and the guy who created flash emdr later this week who's training my T. I'm nervous but grateful.

In other news..mom's house goes on market in a day. :cheer: closer to closure.


Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 29, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
it warms my heart as both a friend and a clinician to hear how the flash technique has been helping.  that fear thing can be insurmountable for many people, so the idea that you were able to get thru it in a half hour is remarkable.   i'm so glad for you, too, that your T is validating, listens, and 'gets' it.  you are on your way!!!  and, yep, closer to closure - i hope it's feeling good for you.  sending love and a hug filled with wonderfulness for you :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on September 29, 2021, 02:29:54 PM
Apology to Bee

I put this originally in Bee's journal but panicked and decided to move it here in case it makes things feel worse instead of better for Bee, which makes me feel sad and sick to just think about.

Bee...

I feel so sad that I hurt and triggered you with my words and forced hug. The last thing I want to do is to hurt and trigger someone here, and espeically you, as you have been so kind and supportive to me and so giving with your words and wisdom.

I appreciate you sharing how to support you. I will probably lay a little low here in your journal for awhile but I'm reading and care about you, your recovery, and everything you have been through.

I'm relieved you know that I did not mean to minimize what was happening with my words, but it felt like I was and that is not ok for me to have done. It felt like a lot to me what you were feeling and going through but I didn't have the right words. And still don't trust that I do.

I hope I didn't just make things feel worse for you but it also felt important to apologize. I'm sorry, Bee.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on September 29, 2021, 04:00:41 PM
Armee, I appreciate this reflection.  After reading Bee's post, I wondered if I had offered hugs too and spent time reflecting on this.  Our hearts are so big and yet so tender from our experiences.  We are tender in different ways.  I think it's great that we are here to learn from one another.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 30, 2021, 06:48:00 AM
armee,

i think the struggles you've had with this list is an excellent target to bring to your T for processing.  it sounds like making an actual list right now is just too big to manage, but the thoughts, feelings, and emotions around what you experienced with the attempt are worth exploring, possibly processing.  just my thoughts.  personally, if i was the T, i'd be glad to hear about it - it could give clues as to how to proceed.  and, please remember, you cannot fail at doing a therapy assignment.  every step of the way, everything you go thru is another piece of information (including feeling scared) that your T can utilize to help you and also to make decisions on what's going to be best for you in therapy.  best to you with this - i'll be interested to hear how it goes, if you care to share.  you've got a lot going on, so i hope you can be as gentle with yourself as possible.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on October 01, 2021, 10:44:55 AM
Hi Armee,
I thought it was so great that your therapist was able to speak to you in such a reassuring way concerning your dream, and that you felt safe at the end of that. 

I also related very much to the fact that you found it so challenging to write your list for processing.  I found some things in the talk I watched yesterday (Janina Fisher & Frank Anderson about Relational trauma) and thought it related to what you said here - there was a bit where I wrote these notes: "Fear of remembering = fear of feeling.  Dangerous to put things into words.  Fear systems engage" - that resonated with me, and it seems to fit a bit to what you said about listing things.  I hope you don't mind my mentioning that.  Please disregard it, if it doesn't fit. 

I also wanted to extend a hug of support to you, if that's ok.   :hug:

Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 01, 2021, 04:18:20 PM
Hope I'm reading this a second time and what you say fits even more than I first realized. The memory we've used for emdr so far is about seeing stuff written down. Writing stuff down has the feeling of life threat to me (others' lives) and seeing things written down has contributed a lot to my trauma. And I know that is powerful because my brain is disconnecting now but thank you for sharing that.

San thank you for the warm hug and love and especially the reminder to be gentle. I'll think about telling my T about why the list was hard. I'm just a bit scared still. I guess the emdr kind of is helping to connect me enough to witness the disconnect and that is what I wanted from emdr, but the truth is uncomfortable.

----
I'm deeply triggered this week by multiple things.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on October 01, 2021, 11:02:57 PM
Armee,

QuoteBee...

I feel so sad that I hurt and triggered you with my words and forced hug. The last thing I want to do is to hurt and trigger someone here, and espeically you, as you have been so kind and supportive to me and so giving with your words and wisdom.

I appreciate you sharing how to support you. I will probably lay a little low here in your journal for awhile but I'm reading and care about you, your recovery, and everything you have been through.

I'm relieved you know that I did not mean to minimize what was happening with my words, but it felt like I was and that is not ok for me to have done. It felt like a lot to me what you were feeling and going through but I didn't have the right words. And still don't trust that I do.

I hope I didn't just make things feel worse for you but it also felt important to apologize. I'm sorry, Bee.

Just found this, and I want to reassure you that my reaction was a combination of a bunch of things. I appreciate your feeling sorry, and I feel sorry too. So, let's just call it an unfortunate collision of things and let it go.

As I've been reading about your EMDR, I have no frame of reference, so am not commenting. I can relate to the nightmares that wake you up and to all the feelings beneath the surface. You and I had much the same type of M, one that leaves long term, deeply rooted, life crunching toxic stuff in their wake. The effort to heal is worth it, despite the toughness of the journey. I hope you keep at it.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 02, 2021, 04:37:21 AM
hey, armee,

yes, be gentle.  bringing up memories, incidents, and/or situations from the past can indeed be scary.  just the idea that you've had a rough time with the assignment is like hope said.  i know that often i can't write what's going on with me even here on the forum cuz it's too overwhelming to bring it back to my consciousness.  and if it's too frightening or anxiety-producing to tell your T why it was difficult, you don't have to say.  maybe farther down the line you'll be able to explain it, but don't push yourself beyond what you can manage.  this stuff is tough to navigate, and fears are attached to so much.  i just want you to be safe as much as possible within yourself.

keep taking care of you, ok?  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Bee,

Thank you for appreciating me feeling sorry. Mostly I'm sad you got triggered at all and have had to get through a tough several days.

I know when I am triggered it is sometimes a combination of things colluding in my head but whatever trigger set it off in full can still retain a lot of the fear and bad feelings, even when I know that is not really the thing that is harmful. If that makes sense...like when i was triggered by men breathing in yoga and just lay paralyzed shaking and sobbing...i know it wasn't yoga or even the men in the class that are the problem, but also I don't want to go to a yoga class again until I'm ready. So...I am a little worried that my posts could be a bit of a re-trigger and I don't want you to have that in your journal until you are ready.

Thank you for letting it go and I do too, but let me know when it feels really comfortable to have me posting responses to you there. Until then, I'm reading and I care about your healing.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 02, 2021, 03:44:45 PM
Thank you, San. I've learned a lot about what possibly to expect from EMDR reading your posts about your experience, even when you can't get into detail in writing and I appreciate you sharing generally. Thank you. And thanks for the welcome love and hugs. It feels nice.

Long post ahead...

-----
One of the best parts about the flash technique for EMDR has been that it involves essentially mirroring the therapist and copying their bilateral movements, while thinking of a positive experience. It feels a little like playing patty cake. And what has happened 2 out of the 3 times we've done it is I've been able to hold eye contact with my T for a little more than a few seconds while copying his hand movements and when that has happened I just got a big smile.

It feels like I am seeing this person who has been there for me in a really solid way for more than three years, like I am seeing him for the first time and really taking in that this person is safe and there for me and I feel connected to him.

It's a little weird because having that feeling makes me aware that I've been disconnected from his presence the rest of the time.

I had a joint therapy session last night with my T and the creator of the flash technique because this is who my T was paired up with as part of his recent EMDR training. Mostly we ended up staying in a consultation mode in terms of formulating a plan and did just a little actual EMDR. His take was that my fears of suicide are kind of warranted and not really the target but that the target needs to go back much earlier to get somewhere. We talked about how I don't visualize anything and don't have sound memories. He checked to see if it appeared that I was visualizing but not letting myself see because he said that can happen to. I described what my memories are like in terms of spatial orientation and facts. I forgot to mention sometimes I get velocity too if it involves being moved through space. But also that I can get physical reactions and can feel the emotion in my body sometimes.

So he instructed me just to think about what it was like as a very young kid to have her as my mom and fear and nausea came up and we just are supposed to focus on that, no memory needed other than sensing the feeling.

But he also confirmed that he thinks my theory is probably correct that those parts of my brain that don't function normally are there and ready to work and that EMDR will strengthen the connections and possibly allow me to do things like visualize or hear things in my head.  (like hello I love playing music and sometimes play the same piece over and over for hours on end every day for months and can not hear it in my head, know what it sounds like, and definitely cannot play it from memory).

When I came home last night I felt really joyful and connected to the present moment. That is so important to me because my present life is just as I want it and it feels like the past just keeps intruding on it against my will. No amount of being told to ground and stay present and not ruminate has gotten me to that point. But this has. It doesn't last too long maybe a day but with time I think it will last longer.

Trigger warnings for suicide.


But after I went to bed last night I was startled awake after about 1.5 hours by my son moving his chair and moving around his room. This sound has often made me panic and I associate it with a fear that he is going to kill himself and that the sound is him pushing a chair out from under him.  I became fairly distressed while also knowing he is ok.

But then what happened was I started reliving a memory from when i was a kid with my mom. There have only been a couple times where i have been in a memory rather than remembering as a fact that something happened. But i was in it and i was having all the actual reactions and emotions and fear. It felt awful while I was going through it....like a nightmare but awake and I thought I was going to actually throw up and that maybe it was food poisoning not memory. I had to eventually get up because the feelings were overwhelming.

But I'm glad it happened because it helps me see that I am not reacting to the present moment and fear for my son because I know he's ok. I'm reliving stuff but it is dissociated so I am trying to pin the reaction onto what is currently happening because I'm unaware of what is really playing in my brain.

I had a scare earlier this week because he was late coming home, his phone was out of charge, and it had put him in an odd deserted spot about 15 min from his school. It turned out the road had been closed due to multiple accidents and I only panicked a little while he was gone but after he came home and I knew he was safe for the next several hours I was stuck in an emotional flashback with terrible thoughts about myself.

I'm also trying to manage how I feel about my Ts reaction to my nightmares that I shared a week ago, which was to very firmly believe that they are something that actually happened based on the totality of symptoms and what he's observed over the years. I don't know what to think. But at least I feel safe and that if something does come up he would believe me and like I don't have to feel stupid about having the same concern that all these things ...the hallucinations, the body reactions etc... are pointing to something.

Finally, wrapping my head around the extent of dissociation, which is hard because I don't want to be like her and I don't want to harm my children.



Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on October 02, 2021, 04:53:33 PM
Thank you Armee,

When and if you feel up to it, you're certainly welcome to reply IN my journal.

What you said about the EMDR
Quotewe just are supposed to focus on that, no memory needed other than sensing the feeling.
follows with all the trauma research, it's the feeling, not the memory.

It sounds very scary to me, and I don't think I could handle it until well into the future. I'm inspired by your work, which I think is so courageous. Enduring these vivid nightmares, I don't know how you do it. Perhaps Piney and H?  Having someone to talk to, despite feeling that 3 year gap, writing your experiences here hopefully helps you get to better feelings.  I spent 5 years holding my current T at arms length, so you're 2 years faster!

Your current strategy of using the white out in the midst of your TW sections is excellent. It really helps me, since reading about those r****s set me back about a month ago. Obviously there's history there. Anyway, thanks for being willing to work it out with me.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 03, 2021, 02:22:30 PM
hey, armee, what a great experience you had with the instructor/creator of flash technique.  i felt a sense of hope myself after reading your account of the meeting.  it's also something i do quite a bit now, mainly because the emotions that come up are often overwhelming to me since i didn't have them at the time of the memory or situation.  it's like having to process something twice at one time, and can be too big, but flash cuts thru it nicely.  well done!   :thumbup:

that sounds like quite an intense experience you had, the memory of your M and the reaction to it.  one thing i've noticed with emdr is that it gets the brain/mind moving in a different direction, gets it out of the loop it may have been stuck in, and that's what's able to release other thoughts, feelings, and memories, whether asleep or awake.  it may be painful or frightening at times, but i think it's a valuable sign of hope for the future.  sending love and a hug filled with gentle but strong support.   :hug:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 04, 2021, 09:54:19 PM
Thank you Bee for letting me know the white font helps. I don't remember who uses it here but I noticed it in someone's posts and thought I'd try.

It may take me a bit of time to feel ok posting in your journal but it isn't because I'm upset you were honest about what triggered you and how. I'm glad you did and I know that it was a lot of things and not just my poor choice of words. It's just I'm so fearful of hurting people or causing them to not be ok with my words or behaviors, so I'm just going to wait till I feel confident and trusting of myself again.

Thank you for the encouragement about EMDR. I don't think of it as courageous* so thank you for saying that.

San...wow that is really helpful to think of it as processing twice at once. That is what it is like. It was very very intense. But so helpful to see truly I'm not reacting to the present moment but am triggered by it and reacting to the past.

----
I managed to sleep for 12.5 hours saturday night!!! 😯 An 8 hr stretch is rare. 12 hours is whatwhat??? I do feel better this week as a result but yesterday I was tired all day and passed out on the stairs like a toddler with my butt in the air my cheek smooshed into the carpet and my hands tucked under my chest. I hope this is the start of my rest period. I'm supposed to go back to work at the end of October and at this point am not sure I can or will. I'm not sure I will not quit. But I'll see how I'm feeling in a couple weeks, and if I'm leaning toward quitting I'll take another month off.

After my flashback Friday night after I jumped out of bed because I couldn't take the intensity anymore I made tea and took a bath. I wrote down in a draft email what had happened so I could remember. When I opened it this morning I was really surprised to see the time stamp. The trigger happened at 1130pm and I drafted the email at 230am. I had no idea so much time passed. And after that I had drained the water, gotten stuck in the empty tub for some additional time (which happens and I've started avoiding baths because I do this), and then went to bed and listened to yoga nidra and had some more stuff come up. All in all I must have been up 4 hrs. I would have guessed 1.5 hrs.
----
*I do feel lucky because of the support of H and many friends, getting really lucky in finding a good T even though he isn't technically a trauma therapist, having a solid extended family with my sister and my mom's sisters, and not having as many severe traumas probably all help make this more tolerable.


Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on October 05, 2021, 01:02:26 PM
Armee,

Re: journal posting; do what feels best and right for you. My thought about courageous for doing the EMDR came from my absolute terror of it, but in thinking about what someone might say about my choices for therapy, I see how it doesn't compute.

It's so good to know you had a 12.5 hour rest period and glad to know you felt better for it, even if temporary. Time passage is a tricky thing, especially during times of demands and decisions.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on October 05, 2021, 07:55:16 PM
Hi Armee,
You sound like you were incredibly tired, and I'm so glad you were able to rest and sleep - especially for that 12.5 hour rest period - I think you really needed that.  You've been through so much, so many demands and decisions (as BeeKeeper mentioned), it's such a lot to process and go through.

Sending you a supportive hug, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on October 06, 2021, 02:33:52 AM
Armee, I notice how odd time is when we are experiencing different things.  I wish you well as you navigate how to handle your job and managing all that is coming up. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 06, 2021, 02:36:48 AM
I love supportive hugs. Thank you, Hope.

Thanks Bee for understanding

Thank you Rainy for the empathy.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 06, 2021, 02:47:35 AM
As part of EMDR today my T was trying to get me to assign a number to how much I believe it was my fault and responsibility to keep my mom alive. 1-7. I get really stuck on things like this and end up dissociating. I tried to explain how I believe it is true completely (so a 7) and I believe it is not true compeltely (so a 1). He tried to tell me that then I believe it a little bit like in the middle so let's call it a 3 or 4. And I was kind of dumbfounded because the belief is not a 3 or 4. It is a 1 or a 7. It is both. I said sure so we could move on but it struck me that...can some people just kind of a average it out like that?

We've gotten stuck on this same thorn many many times and he thinks of it like resistance or something. But it's not really. So as I was mulling this over at my D's lessons I was inspired to draw a comic to show my T what it's like. That in and of itself is remarkable because i don't think in pictures at all. So i think that this may be a sign that this EMDR is actually starting to reach into dead areas of my brain.

I'm going to try to attach it when Kizzie can approve.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 06, 2021, 05:11:41 PM
armee, i get what you're saying about the 1 and 7, get it completely.  i will respectfully disagree with your T on calling your fault/responsibility level as somewhere in the middle.  i don't know how comfortable you are with suggesting something to your T, but, as an emdr therapist, i would have just told you to 'go with that'.  you could ask your T if you can just go with whatever comes up rather than attempting to change it into something it isn't.  just an observation, my own opinion.  i'm not you or your T, so don't want to disrupt a dynamic you're comfortable with,

i love that you're beginning to draw, to visualize.  i've found it so helpful to me when i couldn't put something into words.  it does sound like the emdr is working, your brain is beginning to become unstuck from the loop it had been forced into.  so very happy for you.  it's like seeing a flower begin to bloom.  a lovely yellow ranunculus.  love and hugs, my dear :hug:

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 06, 2021, 08:30:43 PM
Thank you san for your professional perspective on that. I will ask him next time if we can just go with that....the 1 and the 7. It's good for me to disagree and get frustrated. He's a cognitive therapist by years of training and experience and he's trying to help me defeat the negative thought that causes suffering. But in this case of reliving a memory from my teen years, the thought that caused me the panic was "I'm responsible." It's not a negative thought. It was reality. I was responsible because I was the only other person home. It was objectively a frightening overwhelming situation. But it was also true it wasn't my responsibility, because kids can't be responsible for that, morally and philosophically. Trying to get me to defeat the thought that I'm responsible is just denying the reality I was in and telling the part of me that believes that 100% that it is wrong and needs to stop it. In the end I got to the middle through the EMDR processing when the thought that arose was "I was responsible but I never should have been put in that position." It let's both be true. It brings the 2 separate beliefs together.

Now I have us down this rabbit hole maybe because it is safer than the other rabbit hole. I think my brain plays this game where it leaks out a little bit of trauma from one bucket and then covers it up and distracts me with the other one. It's all out of my control but this pattern keeps playing. To keep the control with me T doesn't bring up the other rabbit hole unless I do. I meant to ask him about the other rabbit hole but I didn't.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 07, 2021, 05:44:49 AM
Quote"I was responsible but I never should have been put in that position."

this speaks volumes to me.  it's something i can relate to in so many instances, and really does cover both beliefs.  thanks for sharing it.  very brave of you to get to this.  i give you so much credit, armee.  you are working it to the depths.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on October 07, 2021, 05:52:31 PM
 :grouphug: I've been away for a few months. I read the last couple pages of your journal.

The 1 and 7 of responsibility makes sense to me. Children tend to feel fully responsible for things (7). The adult brain knows that a child is not responsible (1). For me, the feelings of "my fault" can be slowly transformed to knowing in my heart and mind that it wasn't my fault, but hearing over and over that it wasn't my fault. Most of that is still in process for me.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 12, 2021, 02:59:01 AM
I had a funny realization tonight.  Not that my bar is really this low, it isn't. But I had the thought while I was brushing my teeth that I must be a pretty ok mom because my kids have never had to eat or even think about eating toothpaste to fill their tummies.

I have a feeling if I told them this they would not feel as convinced that this is a sign of half way decent parenting.

Therapy appointment tomorrow. I probably need to bring up the fact I'm planning on dropping out of the workforce.

TW CSA no details

And a few weeks ago um he acted like I had told him that I had been molested and asked if I had told anyone else and if I had told my husband and how it's a lot to carry alone for all this time and stuff.
Normally he does not jump to conclusions like that like when I've told him about disturbing body reactions and nightmares and hallucinations he's had a more balanced response kind of like well let's talk about what's upsetting about that...let's see what unfolds... etc. This one his reaction was so different. It was decisive and very empathetic and serious. And we haven't talked about it since. That was probably 3 weeks ago. I've been ignoring it. On the one hand I do think these things are signs that something probably happened and on the other hand I don't think anything happened and think I'm just anxious and causing these reactions to happen because I'm anxious and then I feel very guilty and ashamed that he was acting empathetic.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on October 12, 2021, 03:15:54 AM
Armee, what comes to mind when I read your post: you offer such care and compassion on this board.  I think you learned a lot of what not to do growing up and are making your way the best you can.  I wish you well as you contemplate and approach difficult conversations. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 12, 2021, 06:54:54 AM
armee, one thing i've learned here is that if you have a reaction, a disturbance, there's something behind it.  you are not making it up, it's there in some shape or form.  it's not your fault but the fault, shame and blame of someone else.  it's their burden, it's on them.  this has been extremely helpful for me.  as we say in the biz 'go with that'.  you may not be ready for a full realization yet, or to bring it to your consciousness but with patience and time, it'll appear when you're ready.  your T believes something happened, too, from his reaction, his empathy.  it's ok, armee.  love and hugs   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: BeeKeeper on October 12, 2021, 03:30:27 PM
Quotearmee, one thing i've learned here is that if you have a reaction, a disturbance, there's something behind it.

San says it well, same here.

Sounds like you are a "pretty OK Mom" : provided & cared for them, developed trust & enjoy each other. That's the best.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 13, 2021, 09:27:48 PM
Thank you San and Bee and Rainy. It's a weird place to be in this halfway point of knowing and not knowing. I sort of brought it up in therapy yesterday but not really fully and not in the right way so I don't really have mental resolution about his reaction to what I shared previously except that he seems to still hold that opinion professionally.

I also talked to T about leaving work and how it was definitely a combination of healthy things like wanting to be a mom and wanting to be home for school breaks and stuff and partially avoidance and shame and the PTSD stuff.

His guidance was whatever I chose I had to choose it with kindness to myself and not shame. He also talked about having different expectations in being kind to myself like how someone with a physical disability needs to have different expectations and not be hard on themselves for not being able to do everything as easily as someone without that disability. I'm probably butchering how he worded it but my takeaway was that it is ok to give myself a break. That I have been working much harder than your average human to function. I've made modifications like working part time at a flexible job but really it is still too much because my shame keeps me pushing at 3000%.

I also had a harsh sad realization while talking to my hubby about it. That while I do get fulfullment from my job...I'm a top performer at something that is very meaningful and important...doing well at work...getting praise, etc. It fills me with shame and makes me feel BAD. But doing mediocre work also fills me with shame. It should be possible for me to do this and not feel like garbage but right now, it isn't. And I just need to accept that while I keep working on getting better that right now, I am like this and it is exhausting and harming me, even though having a fulfilling career and doing well at it should not be a harmful thing. Wow. I feel really sad writing that.

Anyway I thought that conversation would go differently. I dread when I have the conversation with my bosses and coworkers who are both colleagues and friends. I'll just say I want to be a mom for awhile. But they will say well just work your part time schedule and do less. How do I explain that anything is too much? That the person they see as a super performer is...well...someone who can't do any of it right now, who cannot work less or perform less out of deep deep shame and belief that I am a stupid chaotic imposter? That I'm in this box with no way out even though for them you just simply let down a side of the box and continue on. These are people who will accommodate me to every last degree possible. How do I say there's no degree of accommodation that makes this ok? I don't say any of it. I want to be a mom. Only. Just. Not in the diminishing sense of the word but in the sense that it is one discrete role.

I don't identify with the descriptions of  DID* and yet I can't do transitions, I can't do multiple roles. I literally have to disappear into the bathroom like Clark Kent and shower and change to go from one persona to the next. Waking to mom to worker to caretaker to mom to bed. I waste so much water. And mixing roles so much during the pandemic...remote school for the kids and work and cooking and dealing with dr. calls all without stopping and putting on the right hat? That is not for me. I remember when I would commute I would literally feel like I was disintegrating and floating away as I switched from home to work and work to home.

* I will say though, the way Janina Fishcher describes her cases in the DID chapter of her book resonated 100%. I don't really know what to make of that. But I don't feel like distinct personalities who operate outside of awareness. Just distinct roles and trouble switching into them.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 14, 2021, 12:22:00 AM
 :wave:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 14, 2021, 03:10:15 PM
armee, it sounds exhausting.  i think acceptance of selves and how we are in any given moment is truly difficult.  the expectations from others weighs heavily and plays a big role in making decisions concerning self-care, what is ok for us, what might be frowned upon by others. 

i have no doubt you will figure it out for yourself.  just so you know, i'm am here, supporting you, no matter which direction you chose.  i hope you can be gentle with yourself, as caring to you as you are to others.  sending love and a hug filled with acceptance and peace. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 14, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
 :wave:

Hi Larry. Good to see you here. Thanks for saying hi.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 14, 2021, 05:29:22 PM
Thanks San. As always you are spot on. It really is the expectations of others that weigh heavily. Thank you for the support. I know what I need to do. It's just a matter of feeling good about it and saying it. And not letting the shame sneak in so much.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 14, 2021, 06:04:10 PM
you are an amazing person Armee,  thank you for sharing and being here, 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 15, 2021, 01:00:50 AM
Aw thanks Larry. Interesting it is far easier to take compliments here than in real life.

I made my final decision. I am leaving the workforce! Wow. So weird. I've worked since I was 11. This will be challenging for my sense of worthiness and shame but I think it'll be ok. I'll start telling my bosses early next week and then work on organizing my files and closing out different matters slowly. I guess it'll take about a month part time. I feel a little stressed but mostly relieved. And happy. Except I have a hormonal migraine. Go away!!!
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 15, 2021, 03:22:17 AM
so happy for you ! you deserve this !  i feel like good things are coming your way !

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 15, 2021, 05:06:07 AM
 :thumbup:  well done, my dear.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on October 16, 2021, 12:15:55 PM
Hi Armee,
Wishing you the best for your decision to leave the workforce, and I hope the transition goes well. 
:hug:
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 16, 2021, 12:48:28 PM
exciting new adventures,  so happy for you Armee !
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on October 17, 2021, 02:31:41 AM
 :cheer: For making this decision for yourself and your family.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 18, 2021, 05:19:16 AM
Thank you for sharing in my joy with me about making a decision to stop working!  :hug: I tell my boss Monday morning.

I had a very tough therapy session on friday. It was another joint session with my T and the developer of flash EMDR but this time it wasn't good. I felt like I was being grilled, like nothing I said was right, and like he completely did not understand me or how my brain works.

Part of it was he would ask how disturbing a memory was right now. But I can't access any information about a memory other than the facts of it when I am in therapy. There are no emotions, I have no images, only vague body sensations like I feel a little nauseous. And so I'd tell him I was a 3/10 and he'd grill me on why it was only a 3 and I'd tell him it was because I couldn't feel anything about it at the moment. Then he'd ask me well why is it a 3 then and not a zero so I'd try to explain because I know it's disturbing and it causes me symptoms. Then he'd lecture me about the difference between an event being disturbing and feeling disturbed and that it sounded like it should be a 0 not a 3. And that I was picking things that were not the right things.

I know I am not explaining this well.

But I felt really frustrated but also scared because I think how my brain works is very common among people with CPTSD and dissociation, and he developed the method for doing EMDR with dissociative clients and has tons of experience with this right? So if he isn't getting this...it must mean I am wrong or I'm more unusual than I thought.

Why is it so hard to understand having no access to emotions about an event until you are triggered? And that I can't be triggered in therapy because it just sends me deeper into dissociation and further from the emotional connection to these events? But that just because I can't be triggered in therapy in the way that accesses the emotions doesn't mean that I don't have flashbacks, nightmares, insomnia, and other severe symptoms that can be helped by doing EMDR on these things.

I'm sure it was a lot of misunderstanding on my part too. But then feeling like I was doing it wrong triggered me the next morning and reminded me of something yucky with a couple seconds more detail but I don't know if it was memory or not, and then that caused my brain to bark at me. Then I just felt really ashamed the rest of the day and wanted to curl up and hide under the table.

It lifted today and felt a lot better though.

I also have been sorting through pictures I brought home from my mom's house. And there are no photos of her with me until I am 4 months old. Then there is a series of a few photos from one day at 4mths, two different days at 5 months, and then a bunch after my first birthday. Where was she? She didnt like having her picture taken so she probably threw out pictures she didn't like. She always said my dad stole all the baby pictures of my sister when she was a baby. Now I am not sure that is true.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 18, 2021, 05:57:14 AM
sorry to disagree with another professional, but i think he was off the mark totally.  i completely believe you know how your mind works as well as how alexithymia works, and i don't think he knows the alexithymia dynamic.  i understood perfectly what you were saying, why it was a 3 rather than a 0, and i think he was wrong for trying to change how you felt (or didn't feel), trying to change what you knew to be ok for you, how you are, etc.  i am totally pissed at him for you   :pissed:  cuz it sounds like bullying, denying you and your feelings, and manipulation.  i don't care how many years this guy has been in the field, how many clients he's had - i believe him to be wrong in how he worked with you in this case.

have you told your T about alexithymia?  have you checked out the Toronto Alexithymia Scale? (TAS-20)  i had to tell my T and explain it to her.  not very many people, even in the profession, know about it.  i had to explain it to my shrink as well.  this is a very real thing and you do not have to doubt yourself, think you did it wrong, or feel ashamed of you.  these people don't know everything, no matter what kind of an 'authority' they may pass themselves off as.  oooooh, this really irks me, armee.  i'm very sorry you had to go thru it, that it troubled you afterward, but i'm glad you're feeling better.

if you meet with this guy again, you may have to explain it to him, but i think it would be a good idea for your T to know about alexithymia, how it affects you, and ask him to back you up on how you are or are not feeling with this guy.  honestly, in my experience, sometimes the more a clinician makes a name for themself in this field, the more it can go to their head.  ugh!  i hope it never happens again.  ever! 

much love and a hug filled with you did nothing wrong. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on October 18, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
Quote from: Armee on October 18, 2021, 05:19:16 AM

Part of it was he would ask how disturbing a memory was right now. But I can't access any information about a memory other than the facts of it when I am in therapy. There are no emotions, I have no images, only vague body sensations like I feel a little nauseous. And so I'd tell him I was a 3/10 and he'd grill me on why it was only a 3 and I'd tell him it was because I couldn't feel anything about it at the moment. Then he'd ask me well why is it a 3 then and not a zero so I'd try to explain because I know it's disturbing and it causes me symptoms. Then he'd lecture me about the difference between an event being disturbing and feeling disturbed and that it sounded like it should be a 0 not a 3. And that I was picking things that were not the right things.

Armee, just reading this I feel like screaming. If a T had been working with me like this, I probably would have blown a fuse at some point. My current T did work with me on tiny nuances of language to try and make me differentiate between thinking about things and feeling things, but he did that work all on its own and not mixed up with me having to put a number on the scale of 1 to 10 and certainly not with him disagreeing with my response. So I'd tend to agree with san that your T wasn't working well with you no matter how much experience he has had with others in the past. It's not on you to understand something he can't get across to you properly. Here's a shelter from him  :umbrella:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: owl25 on October 18, 2021, 10:37:37 PM
I often think that professionals who have not experienced CPTSD themselves are flying blind. It's hard to understand how the traumatized brain may react or how it works. For a professional to argue with a client that their answers are wrong is just..  :fallingbricks: You aren't wrong about what you are observing in yourself! How can you be?

If there is anything I have learned is that what we need is for a therapist to be attuned to us. For them to truly listen to us, be curious about us, and to work with us if something isn't making sense to them. I doubt that if I hadn't had the lived experience of trauma myself that it would make any sense to me. Without the lived experience, it's all just theory and quite abstract.

So, you didn't do anything wrong Armee, I think your T did. He didn't take your word for it. He felt the answer should be A, even though it was B. He wouldn't accept B as an answer. He wasn't truly interested in your lived experience, he was after a specific outcome. I am sorry you had to go through that.

I'm not sure if you can take any feedback back to him, if you feel comfortable and if it would be of any value (with some people there's just no point). I hope you can internalize that you didn't do anything wrong. He wasn't listening to you or attuned to you, and that's supposed to be his job.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 19, 2021, 04:19:44 AM
Thank you everyone for the reassurance and letting me know I'm not wrong and bad.

To clarify... It wasn't my T that was badgering me. It was the EMDR expert who is training him. We did a joint session with the 3 of us.  I think my T did a good job encouraging me to speak up for myself and then also sticking up for me a bit, which might have been tough since he is learning  from this hotshot. My T has almost always been respectful of how I experience things and has accepted them and worked with it without fighting to push it into some model. He doesn't always understand but he does a good job working with it and learning more to understand.

San thank you for pointing me to the alexithymia assessment. I think part is alexithymia and part is not accessing the memories at all unless it's a flashback.

I've gone through this slow realization over the past few years...at first I thought it was normal and everyone experienced things the same way as me. Then I thought: "ok. Maybe not everyone is like this but nearly all therapy clients are like me." Then I thought: "ok not all therapy clients but any with trauma." Now I'm realizing that it's a little more unique and it startled me that how my brain works stumps very experienced therapists. That is surprising to me. I guess that is the complex part of cPTSD.

I told my boss today that I am leaving and have started telling a few others. It went well but was sad too. We're all close and they have been so kind to me and they are really appreciative of my contributions.

But I'm looking forward to just getting to be myself.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 19, 2021, 05:02:59 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 19, 2021, 02:32:42 PM
 :hug:

Back at you San.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on October 19, 2021, 10:27:17 PM
Hi Armee, sorry for getting the EMDR expert mixed up with your T. I thought about modifying my post just now to reflect that but I can't, my brain is too mushy. So I'm glad you feel in good hands with your T, that is so important.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 19, 2021, 10:56:04 PM
 :hug:

No need to change a thing, Blueberry.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 19, 2021, 11:31:43 PM
I think I have a bit of clarity today.

I've often felt like my mom wasn't my mom. Which of course makes sense when you think of how parentified I was and how vacuous she was when she wasn't screaming. But more than that it didn't even feel like I came from her. I know I did, biologically.

But as I sorted through photos and ended up finding only 1 with her before I was 4 months old but lots of photos of other family members holding me, my grandma and sister giving me my first bath...I realized she really wasn't my mom those first few months when we apparently lived with my grandparents. She might have been there I'm not honestly even sure she was but she was not the one caring for me. It was my beloved grandma and my 4 yr old sister and my aunts and uncles. And then she took us from there and moved us away from them. My mom wasn't really my mom and she took me away from the person who mothered me. It makes a bit more sense now.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 20, 2021, 02:52:11 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 22, 2021, 08:29:59 PM
I'm mostly feeling good but also there's a bit of guilt and shame about leaving...mostly people who I know are struggling too and my leaving may put even more pressure on them. But I feel very comfortable for once doing what I have to do for myself.

Its like even in this decision I have 2 parts. One part is basing the decision on being there for my kids, physically and mentally. And that is the part that made a clear solid emotional but logical choice. The other part is the part that is quitting in shame. It's the part that knows I am leaving because I can't live up to the expectations, because I'm not really smart or competent and I can't keep doing this and its killing me. That part feels so so so much relief that I just get to be me. I don't need to pretend to be anyone else. I don't need to worry about people thinking I'm smart when I'm not. Or calling me an expert when I'm not. Or giving me praise and awards that I don't deserve. There's so much relief that I just need to be one person. Me. I can be a mom. That's me.

Last night I needed a second shot of whiskey and the thought was "things are getting to close to the surface and I don't want them to be close." And I never know if I am making that stuff up or if it's a true voice coming up. But certain symptoms were showing up and it made them go away. But it was a choice to make it go away not an automatic thing so i think that is good, -ish.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on October 22, 2021, 09:48:45 PM
Armee, I appreciate you sharing about your journey of entering a new phase.  I have been having a lot of questions myself of late now that I am not working and coming up with few answers.  I'm glad to have a fellow traveler on this path. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on October 23, 2021, 04:13:59 PM
Quote from: Armee on October 19, 2021, 11:31:43 PM
I've often felt like my mom wasn't my mom. Which of course makes sense when you think of how parentified I was and how vacuous she was when she wasn't screaming. But more than that it didn't even feel like I came from her. I know I did, biologically.

But as I sorted through photos and ended up finding only 1 with her before I was 4 months old but lots of photos of other family members holding me, my grandma and sister giving me my first bath...I realized she really wasn't my mom those first few months when we apparently lived with my grandparents. She might have been there I'm not honestly even sure she was but she was not the one caring for me. It was my beloved grandma and my 4 yr old sister and my aunts and uncles. And then she took us from there and moved us away from them. My mom wasn't really my mom and she took me away from the person who mothered me. It makes a bit more sense now.

Armee, this seems like a big realization to me.  :grouphug:



Like others, I feel anger at the EMDR expert. He should have listened to you and attuned to you instead of trying to make you fit into his box. I.e., he should have heard what "3" meant to you and just gone with that.

Quote from: sanmagic7 on October 18, 2021, 05:57:14 AM
i think he was wrong for trying to change how you felt (or didn't feel), trying to change what you knew to be ok for you, how you are, etc.  i am totally pissed at him for you   :pissed:  cuz it sounds like bullying, denying you and your feelings, and manipulation.  i don't care how many years this guy has been in the field, how many clients he's had - i believe him to be wrong in how he worked with you in this case.


much love and a hug filled with you did nothing wrong. :hug:
:yeahthat:

Quote from: owl25 on October 18, 2021, 10:37:37 PM
For a professional to argue with a client that their answers are wrong is just..  :fallingbricks: You aren't wrong about what you are observing in yourself! How can you be?

If there is anything I have learned is that what we need is for a therapist to be attuned to us. For them to truly listen to us, be curious about us, and to work with us if something isn't making sense to them.

I hope you can internalize that you didn't do anything wrong. He wasn't listening to you or attuned to you, and that's supposed to be his job.
:yeahthat:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 23, 2021, 07:44:15 PM
HI Armee,  I hope you are having a great day,  thank you for always being here for me and so many others.  I would like to return the support,  i just don't know how.  I'm not good at thingslike that. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 24, 2021, 02:15:13 AM
Thanks for saying hi, Larry! You don't need to know the right thing to say. It just feels nice knowing there are people here who care and get me.

Not Alone, thank you for the validation. It helps.



Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 24, 2021, 03:41:24 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 24, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
We were having rare torrential downpours here today and my home is surrounded by trees that like to topple in those conditions. I don't have anxiety for myself but for my kids.

As I was laying in bed this morning I was playing with my memory and trying to see what I could remember and how far back. One thing I realized was that I have memories from preschool...not a lot but some.

I remember the outside of our apartment complex and playing there with other kids...just spatial orientation and facts as usual for me. I remember the layout of the complex where I'd play with other kids, but all I can recollect of where we lived there was that there was like a little corner or alley you'd turn from the main part where we'd play outside and then nothing. I don't know how deep in I'd go, where our door was, or what the layout of the apartment was, or anything that happened there. That wouldn't be strange to not have memories from that age except I have the memories of the neighborhood. Which I think just indicates to me that I had already begun dissociating by that age. Go home, shut off. Like I remembered that I had overheard a family who was moving was going to leave their cat behind locked in their house so our family stole the cat before they moved. I remember where their apartment was.

Anyway, nothing hugely revelatory but just another small piece of the puzzle. Not a corner piece. Just a nondescript middle piece.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on October 24, 2021, 06:57:04 PM
Quote from: Armee on October 24, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Anyway, nothing hugely revelatory but just another small piece of the puzzle. Not a corner piece. Just a nondescript middle piece.

I understand and have used the analogy of puzzle pieces myself. Sometimes the nondescript piece lead to/connect to other pieces that show more of the picture.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 24, 2021, 08:23:42 PM
It was nice of you to save the cat !  I appreciate you sharing your experience
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on October 25, 2021, 02:27:20 PM
Hi Armee,
You were kind to save the cat.  I agree with Larry about that.

You were thinking about your memories of places, and I wondered if you've ever tried googling the addresses of past places you've lived?  I've done that with my previous addresses, and you can often get a street scene of the place, which for some very young memories has been useful for me.  I wanted to just share that - incase you might find that helpful to do. 

I've also thought of jigsaw pieces regarding memories too.  Glad you've been able to find some pieces.

Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 27, 2021, 01:43:25 AM
Thank you Not Alone, Larry, and Hope. Hugs if they are comfy.  :grouphug:

I have been spending the past 2 days telling my colleagues I'm leaving. During video meetings. It's been awful and sad. I know this sounds like humble bragging. It is not. This is my most painful entrenched life altering cptsd symptom.

I am so deeply ashamed of myself and so deeply believe that I am stupid no good worthless that the outpouring of praise and compliments and bemoaning of losing me...it hurts deeply. It makes me dig my nails into my hands offscreen. It makes me shrink and then I go into the bathroom and dissociate for an hour instead of parenting. This is what I am running away from. This is what I can't handle.

I am grateful there is a valid noble reason for leaving my job...the one I use when I tell people I am leaving...to be a mom. But it is only 1/3 of the reason. The other 1/3 is PTSD induced exhaustion and then 1/3...or 5/6th... is the deep shame and how badly I feel when people acknowledge my work and contributions which is almost every meeting even when I'm not leaving.

This causes me so much pain because it's not how I see myself. I thought I had it figured out. I thought it was that when people would praise me I'd feel like a fraud but then need to work harder to not let people down and then working harder would make me exhausted and then I wouldn't function at my top ability and then I'd feel like more of a fraud and work harder and get more praise ad nauseam rinse, repeat. But that should have stopped once I announced I was quitting. No more pressure to work harder, so praise should no longer be well...traumatizing. But it is.

Now I'm left scratching my head and frankly horrified and stunned at the depth of this issue. I am leaving a fantastic job because I can't handle doing a good job because of the praise and I can't handle doing a mediocre job. I can't even over state how great this job is. These people are loving, supportive, kind, family. My work is meaningful and I am good at it. And my CPTSD has me running away from that. I have tried for the past 3 years to solve this problem. I finally realized I can't solve it in the near term and can't keep working because of the impact of the shame and exhaustion on me. If ever there were a time for a deeply exhaled 4 letter word in my posts, this is it. What is wrong with me?
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 27, 2021, 04:23:51 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on October 27, 2021, 08:40:01 PM
i wish i knew what to say,    just hoping you feel better. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on October 29, 2021, 07:52:01 PM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 30, 2021, 01:57:44 PM
Thank you for the hug, Sam Magic.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on October 30, 2021, 02:52:56 PM
Armee, I hear your anguish.  :hug: As I read your post, this picture came into my head. It is my story, so I deeply apologize if I am off base in connecting to what you wrote. I will write it in first person. Maybe it will help a little bit with your question of "What is wrong with me?"

The picture in my head is of a person, who, in the inner most part is dark, dark black (shame & guilt). Going further out from the middle of the person are colors. The outer most part of the person and extending out from the person are bright, vibrant colors. Others see those colors. For me, they praise those colors, but I feel and see the inner black. Sometimes I think, "If you only knew."

There are others who know about some of the black, but they don't see ME as the black. Confusing. My therapist knows many details of the black, but he sees them as black, not me. Very, very confusing. Just this week in session, he was telling the 6-10-year-old Part that he saw her as good and reminded her about him holding her hand the week before. She said that was before she told him what she had told him that day. He said he felt the same and asked if he could hold her hand. She said no, not out of fear, but out of shame.

Over time, some of the black inside, has, at the very least, turned to gray. Still a lot of dark black left.

Armee, I feel for you and am sorry for the turmoil you are experiencing. Sending lots of compassion to you.  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on October 31, 2021, 12:55:09 AM
Not Alone. Thank you for hearing my anguish. I was really feeling that way and felt so stupid for complaining about feeling valued. Wow. Woe is me.

But the picture you painted of your own experience feels very much true for me, too. I very much feel everytime someone says something good about me "NO! You don't know me, you don't understand! LOOK! I'm bad and stupid!" And then they think they need to tell me even more how good and smart I am and then it's like even a bigger lie forms so I gave up trying to convince people. Then I feel more like a fraud because I'm just letting their praise come and be because I've given up trying to convince them they are wrong and it backfires and makes everything worse.

Sigh. I'm relieved to have a break. I'm joyful to be able to spend time just being a mom. It's going to be good. I just am feeling angry that the shame is so powerful that I had to leave such a good thing. I've tried for 17 years to make it work. It just got worse and worse. I tried working on it in therapy and doing what T suggested and still it made it worse and worse. And I couldn't really face it. I could do really awful difficult things in therapy, but not this.

So thank you, for giving me an image to work with. I still very much thing that darkness is me. That it is true and the colors people are seeing are just lies. I'm not sure where the dark comes from though. I know I dissociate and that makes me feel stupid. I know I've had insomnia and that makes me ineffective. I just don't know though. The shame is so deep.

Your T is right though...it the things that happened to you that are dark. Not you. You have offered so much empathy and compassion for everyone here. I see only the colors from you, Not Alone.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: dollyvee on October 31, 2021, 12:01:40 PM
Quote from: Kizzie on May 25, 2021, 04:51:35 PM
  We don't have to be assaulted physically or sexually, it's enough to have been repeatedly emotionally abused or neglected.  In the end that's what it all comes down to, what the abuse does to us emotionally, to our sense of self-worth, trust, safety, etc.

Hi Armee,

I was reading your journal and this stuck out for me and wanted to echo what Kizzie said that your trauma doesn't have to look like someone else's trauma - it's very real to you and that's what's important. Recently I learned that the development of PTSD is not about the excessive nature of what happened - how violent etc, but related to the unpredictable nature of how it happened. Being little and having someone blame you for their behaviour and suicide attempts sounds very traumatic.

I also think your having two numbers is very interesting. I get this too when my T asks about a number for EMDR and usually I have two answers. I know that I have some mild (?) dissociation as well...maybe they're linked. I'm sorry that your T glossed over this (and your feelings!) to have it fit their narrative.

Hope you are feeling more settled.

dolly
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on October 31, 2021, 07:22:01 PM
Quote from: Armee on October 31, 2021, 12:55:09 AM
That it is true and the colors people are seeing are just lies.



Your T is right though...it the things that happened to you that are dark. Not you. You have offered so much empathy and compassion for everyone here. I see only the colors from you, Not Alone.

I believe that the colors people see in you are true, even though they don't see the darkness that you feel. Interesting (and boy do I understand), that you see the colors in me, not the dark.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on November 01, 2021, 12:46:39 PM
HI Armee,  I hope you have a great day !
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on November 01, 2021, 09:12:48 PM
hasn't it been said that we see ourselves in other people?  that thought struck me as i read about others seeing colors in you at the same time you see colors in them.  i agree that the black is with those people who have abused us, no matter what form it takes.  it certainly doesn't have to be physical - i'm learning the extent of trauma, its chokehold on my life and how it's distorted my ability to think positively about myself, and i didn't go thru physical abuse of any kind.  i've often said to my T that physical abuse seems like it would have been easier for me to see and process than the emotional abuse and neglect.  these last two have nearly killed me several times.

i am also a firm believer that the amount of shame we carry correlates exactly to the amount of shame that truly belongs to the others in our lives who have hurt us so.  shame on them for what they did, said, or didn't do or say.  they're the ones who deserve that darkness of shame for their words and actions, not us.  not you.

i believe you'll eventually be able to see this once you're ready.  it may not be time for you, yet, but you're working hard and i think you're moving in a healthy direction.  sending love and a bunch of support surrounding you with a safety net of peace.   :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: owl25 on November 04, 2021, 01:27:48 AM
Hi Armee, this sounds so difficult. CPTSD is a beast and it makes us lose things that are so important to us. I hope you can try to find some compassion for yourself. There isn't anything wrong with you. While I don't know the specifics of your story, I am sure it makes complete sense that you feel the way you do given your past experiences. There is a reason for your feelings as they are. I hope that with time you'll be able to return to your job, and that until then, you'll be able to focus on healing the parts of you that are so burdened by shame and pain.  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 07, 2021, 07:14:32 AM
I feel so much gratitude for the kind words you all offer to me here, empathy and understanding. Thank you, truly.

I haven't written much this week. I think I'm a bit afraid that I will trigger someone and I don't know how to share enough without too much.

I tend to have disturbing  images of a recurring theme and it is the only thing I get images of. It's devoid of content just one object stripped of everything around it. Anyway it happened most recently last weekend and I wasn't sure if it's like attention seeking from my T or freaking myself out (just anxiety) or a flashback.

In a way it doesn't matter. And in a way saying it doesn't matter is pretty dismissive to myself.

Work has been sad. I had my performance review last week. I thought I was off the hook and it would just be signing a paper and then we'd just focus on the process for resigning. But it was more of the same. Praise that feels over the top but everyone swears they are holding back because they know I don't like the attention. I was grateful that me and my boss were not on video just audio for the meeting. I sat there and silently sobbed. Why does praise feel like I am being beat? It is painful. I just don't understand myself.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on November 07, 2021, 08:34:00 AM
Hi Armee,
I had many thoughts whilst reading what you wrote, so I thought I'd just share them, but of course they are just reflections that went through my mind - please disregard anything that doesn't make sense.  I wanted to say that I admired the fact you were able to attend your performance review, and whilst I can see how emotional it was for you, I think that's understandable.  I have never been able to have a proper ending in relation to my own work situation, and endings are triggering to me, so to hear someone talk about their emotions on ending and having a performance review, that is huge.  When you spoke about silently sobbing, and the painful feeling of receiving praise, it made me wonder whether maybe it hurts more because what might motivate people to do well in work situations, might be to gain praise that isn't necessarily the people around, but something deeper, or people from the past, or something else entirely, but maybe it hurts that the feeling is felt, and you can't pinpoint why it hurts - but it really means something.

Those images you've had, I'm glad you wrote about the fact that happened, as it is acknowledging that something does matter to part of you, that it is a communication that is meaningful at some level.  I agree that saying it doesn't matter might be dismissive to that communication.  But you haven't done that, you've acknowledged it.

(I'm sorry I'm writing so much here, but I related to what you said, and just wanted to share my thoughts)

You said you hadn't written much this week, and that you were a bit afraid that you might trigger someone and you didn't know how to share enough without too much.  I think it's your journal, and whatever you write is important, and that you should be able to share.  When I share something, and I fear it might trigger someone, I often write the words **Trigger warning before whatever I'm going to write, and that way someone can decide whether or not to continue to read.  If I can describe what the content might be of the trigger, I'd say it, but sometimes I don't know, and so just put 'trigger warning (not sure what I'm going to say, but might be triggering).

I want to send you a hug Armee, if that's ok  :hug:  I am glad that your colleagues have appreciated your work, and that they clearly hold you in esteem and I feel sure they'll be sad that you're leaving.  But most of all, I hope that you're ok, and taking some time (if you want to of course) to do whatever would help you best to spend time this weekend. 

Hope  :)
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 07, 2021, 02:25:04 PM
I really appreciate you sharing so much, Hope. It helps me think through things and feel heard in a respectful empathetic way. Thank you. And I like hugs.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on November 07, 2021, 03:11:01 PM
i totally agree with hope that this is your journal, to be utilized by you for your recovery.  i've used *trigger warning* several times in my own journal.  like in real life, we don't know what might trigger someone, what might cross a boundary for someone, or how someone may react to what we do or say.  i believe these journals are one tool we can use to help ourselves.  we may be wounded in various ways, but we are all adults.  please, write what's helpful for you.  even if we can't read a certain passage, we can still be supportive of you and what you're going thru.

as far as that image goes, i think it would be a good one to target in therapy.  personally, i don't think it matters why it's there, only that it is, and it deserves resolution.

wishing i could bring you in for a gentle caring hug. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 08, 2021, 06:19:57 AM
Thanks San. That gentle caring hug is truly felt even though it in writing.

:grouphug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on November 08, 2021, 12:49:23 PM
Hi Armee,  i always have a hard time trying to say something helpful,  just want you to know that i support you and hope you have a great day.
:sunny:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Hope67 on November 08, 2021, 07:09:07 PM
 :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 09, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
The simple hellos are very nice Larry. You don't need to say anything unless it comes to you and feels safe for you.

Thanks for the hug Hope!

Had a doozy of a therapy session today. It was intense but also I think we both kind of nailed it as far as dipping in and then grounding, pushing things a bit but not too far. It was one of those sessions where I really feel like we have the right fit.

Laughing is how I keep from dissociating so we use humor a LOT. My T pushed me gently along to talk about the disturbing image and body sensations. I would have avoided it and in the past he would have waited for me to ask to work on it and I'm glad he brought it up himself.

We did some flash EMDR on it and at one point I dipped into remembering about the image and immediately got hit by a strong wave of nausea and backed right out of the memory of the image and then started dissociating a lot.

So T started joking about projectile vomiting and showed me the clip from Stand By Me with the barf-a-rama. Most people maybe that would be a therapeutic faux-pas but for me it's just what I need to start laughing hysterically. So I'm feeling really grateful. Also for how he is handling the uncertainty which is less uncertain and more missing in detail and memory. I pretend it is uncertain. Um. I'm not sure about that. Huh.

Anyway, I ended up in the end just dissociating during the flash stuff and we stopped. And as I was driving home and at home I got really upset and started hitting things. But I didnt hurt myself or beat myself up mentally so I think that is good. To feel what must be anger.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: rainydiary on November 10, 2021, 12:31:22 AM
Armee, that sounds like a lot.  I am glad you have someone like your T that is so responsive to you.  I will think of you as you move through the things the session brought up. 
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: dollyvee on November 10, 2021, 11:49:08 AM
Hi Armee,

Like rainy said, it's great that your T is responding to what works for you. Sending you support for the things coming up in EMDR as it's not easy to go back to those places.

Something also popped into my head about authenticity and how I felt it much more of a challenge to maintain it and be grounded when I had regular contact with my family. They would constantly spin me out.

dolly
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on November 10, 2021, 12:28:44 PM
wow, armee, quite a session. it sounds wonderful that you and your t have found ways to move forward, stay still, back up a little, and laugh yourself through.  to me, that is great therapy.  i'm so very happy for you in that sense, like it's a collaboration between you and your T and using out-of-the-box creativity.  way to go for both of you!  :thumbup: :thumbup:

i also think it's good you didn't beat yourself up, but were able to get the emotion out nonetheless.  it sounds like anger.  at least, that's how i've responded to anger at times, even if i didn't know or feel it.  keep up the good work!  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:



Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Papa Coco on November 10, 2021, 02:47:17 PM
Hey Armee,

Sounds like you and your therapist are developing enough trust for one another that your brain and heart are starting to really open up in your sessions. As far as therapists go, I'm happy to hear you got one of the good ones, Rather than pushing you along on his textbook schedule, he's allowing you to experience the healing at your pace. He's compassionately using humor to lesson discomfort.

Sounds like he managed your EFs and triggers expertly. You are in good hands.

And PS: I love the Barf-o-rama scene in Stand by Me. Also, it's not lost on me that you and your therapist are watching scenes from a movie entitled Stand By Me. If there's anything in the world that can help CPTSD it's knowing that I'm not alone, and that someone would stand by me as I go through the complexities of recovery. Loneliness and isolation did the damage. Friendship and trust are needed now to recover.  I always say I can take on a world of bullies if I have but one trusted ally at my side.  Your therapist sounds like he's standing by you. He's an ally at your side.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 10, 2021, 05:56:45 PM
Thank you Papa Coco. I love what you pointed out about the significance of watching a clip from Stand By Me together. It really hit me a few weeks ago when I was first able to really hold eye contact with him after 3 years working together and I felt him as a real human there alongside me. And that realization....that he felt REAL...made me realize the opposite too...that all that time he did not feel real. And how strange and hard it would be to show up week after week for a client so disconnected. And the fact he has been there for me through so much difficulty while I didn't even sense him as real? THAT is commitment! Wow.

But I also want to say: YES. I did get lucky and get a great therapist. One who is willing to listen and learn and grow alongside me. And at the same time, there have been a lot of times he has screwed up, especially around forcing and forcing CBT while it made things worse and putting too much faith in his CBT guru and not enough in his own instincts. I kept going back because I had faith he could help me. And when he fumbled in one area I'd pivot to stuff he could help me on.

It actually has been a very beautiful relationship though where I think we are learning and growing together: me personally, and him in how to treat CPTSD.

Oh I also want to note for myself another thing around the Stand By Me exchange.  I felt really understood...the dissociation and how it affects just normal day to day life. He asked if I had seen Stand By Me and I said yes. And he started rattling off different parts or characters or scenes and I just looked blankly. He finally caught on and said kindly: "you don't remember scenes and characters, do you?" And I sadly shook my head no. This is one of those "symptoms" while not hugely disruptive still kind of sucks. I can't follow plots or characters even kids movies and when I'm in social situations and people start talking about movies and tv shows I just can't participate and feel like a freak. But it was really nice that T saw and understood that.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Papa Coco on November 10, 2021, 07:40:21 PM
Hi Armee,

That's so great that you and your T have crossed that crucial trust boundary.

I still remember the day I realized I didn't trust my therapist also. I'd known him for over 10 years and had been his one-on-one client for close to three years when it hit me that I was subconsciously blocking his sincerity by not realizing how much I didn't trust him. It was an epiphanous moment when I realized that my parents and church had raised me to believe love was a full-contact sport, and if I wanted to feel love I had to be wary of the trauma and painful consequences that came with it. In other words, they taught me how to love wrong. I was telling my T about how I was worried I was going to lose my job, and that naturally my wife and kids would leave me because I was no longer of any use to them. He looked at me, surprised, and said "Knowing what you've told me about your wife, I don't believe there's anything in the world you could do to make her stop loving you."  I felt like my entire body just flushed gallons of old poison out of me. That was the moment I realized love was NOT a transaction, but a soulful connection. Right away I saw how I had never trusted him either. At over 40 years of age, I didn't even realize how distrusting I had always been until he showed me how wrong I was about my own relationship with my wife. Man, did that change my ability to accept healing. Learning to trust my T opened me up to accept his help without guarding myself against his earnest efforts.

It makes perfect sense though. We believe we are loved by our parents. So, we believe that's what love looks like. When they use love as a weapon against us, we learn that's what love is. A weapon. We recreate that love in every relationship thereafter, believing we are doing the right thing. I like to tell people that they need to build a long-term relationship with their therapists, because I know that there is going to be a long time period between starting therapy and making that epiphanous step of opening up and seeing that trust and love are not what we'd always thought they were.

I think it's awesome that your therapist is learning from you too. CPTSD treatments are just becoming a thing, and millions of traditional therapists need to learn about them. Those therapists who have CPTSD are the best ones, but those who don't have it, but are willing to learn about it, can become just as helpful to us.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on November 10, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
interesting observation, armee, about not being able to see/remember scenes and characters.  that often happens to me as well, especially with lots of characters or a complex plot.  i also find it hard to follow multiple directions from someone and have to back up, ask questions, and have stuff repeated.  it does get frustrating.  but, no, you're not a freak, unless i am, too.  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 11, 2021, 06:59:03 PM
Thank you Rainy and San and DollyVee for the additional validation and encouragement.  :grouphug:

DollyVee you are right about authenticity I think. I can finally be myself because I am not trying to shove myself and my behavior into a fishbowl to be right for my mom.

I wanted to jot down a note here and I'm curious what people think...

Snowdrop talked about chickenpox and remembering feeling cared for when they had it as a kid. And it made me remember my own experience with chickenpox. Which was waking up on christmas morning as a preteen with a bad case. My sister had just had it and I caught it from her. My mom took my sister and left for the day to spend christmas with the extended family. They weren't far away. Same town. I felt abandoned but also I don't know how long they were gone. Maybe just a couple hours maybe all day. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. Like I feel a little hurt but also selfish like it was a holiday and family was around so of course they should have gone and visited?
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Snowdrop on November 11, 2021, 07:12:36 PM
I think I would have felt abandoned and hurt in that situation, Armee. I don't think it's selfish at all. :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Blueberry on November 11, 2021, 07:19:40 PM
I would have felt sad and hurt.  :hug: :hug: to you Armee. I don't think you were being selfish.

I remember now when I had a bad case of the measles as a child and some extended FOO mbrs arrived and everybody was sitting in the garden talking, laughing and having a good time and I was stuck in bed but hearing it all through the open window, I felt lonely and left out. I was able to say something though ;D You weren't Armee.  :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Not Alone on November 12, 2021, 03:29:19 AM
I think it's great that your T is seeing you and what you need. Sounds like he is growing too. It may have taken awhile, but that he could turn aside from his agenda (CBT) and begin to work with you to figure out what is helpful to you, says a lot about what kind of T he is.

Regarding being concerned about triggering others and the image you've been seeing; it is up to you about how much you share. I know those of us on OOTS want to be sensitive about triggering others. A trigger warning is helpful. There are times that I'm able to read someone's post and other times I'm not is a place to read something that may be triggering. I know that Bach has written "trigger warning" and then has written the triggering part in white. I thought that was a really good idea.

Quote from: Armee on November 11, 2021, 06:59:03 PM
I felt abandoned . . . . . . . .  . . .. . I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. Like I feel a little hurt . . . . . .
You feel what you feel, no "supposed to." You feel abandoned and hurt. Even thought that's difficult and sad, it is okay that you feel that way.
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Armee on November 12, 2021, 06:53:03 PM
Thank you Snow Drop, Not Alone, and Blueberry. I've always caveated my feelings, sought to understand and explain people's treatment of me to forgive and make it not a big deal so I'm just tiptoeing into trying to sense what my real feelings might be.

I realized this morning something that made me cry and still feel very queasy. I had that image as a little kid too, maybe 5. I explained it to my kid self as something else that would make sense to a kid but I think it was the same thing. I remember one night every time I'd close my eyes it would be there and I was terrified because my only explanation for it as a kid frightened me. I don't know.

Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: sanmagic7 on November 13, 2021, 01:12:23 PM
armee, i echo the others - feeling hurt, abandoned, sad, all that, sounds perfectly normal to me, and not at all selfish. 

i did some 'kid explaining' to myself after an incident in my childhood.  i had a doll i slept with, she'd help me fall asleep and was a comfort to me at bedtime.  one night, she was gone.  being taught not to ask questions, my only resource was to make up a story about how the fairy king needed her and took her away.  i think that was the beginning of my survival mechanism kicking in - telling stories to myself to make reality bearable.  years later i told my mother about that experience and she told me she threw the doll away because it was getting all funky.  it occurs to me now that my M would put the perfect cleanliness of her house above anything else.

i think it's nearly tragic that we didn't get the care and support needed for reassurance.  i think it could be part of the beginning of self-doubt and unconventional coping mechanisms. whew.

i care and support you, accept you as you are.  love and hugs :hug:
Title: Re: Armadillo's Not So Trigger Filled Journal
Post by: Larry on November 13, 2021, 01:45:41 PM
that was nice sanmagic,  i wish i could say something as helpful.  i'm just not good at it. 
hope you have a great day armee !