I have been struggling since age 6, things were bad until 18, i really thought i would grow out of this, my fatether, : abuser" might be dead. i really wanted to confront him, but have not seen him since i was 7. i really wanted to get some closure, maybe talk to him, let him know how bad things have been. he remarried and had 2 more kids, I have never net the kids or new wife, now i hear he might have died, how do i get closure ? how do i deal with this? he abandoned me and had a new fanily. deprived me of so many things. i do not think i will ever heal
It's hard when there is no closure.
I can relate to a lot of what you wrote here. I don't normally write things out because my brain gets too confused but when I found out a particularly painful detail about 6 months ago...one that had the potential to affect my current life and my kids, I ended up writing my dead father a letter. And then I locked myself in the car and recorded myself reading it outloud. Then I listened to it a few times. I heard where my voice broke in anger. I heard it like I was listening to what happened to someone else.
You're not going to get closure. You have to take it for yourself. You'll heal. You can.
Even for some of us where those that hurt us are still alive but there is no chance of confrontation or reconciliation, there can be no closure except what we take for ourselves. You have a right to do whatever you need to (so long as it doesn't harm yourself or others) to gain that closure, but you deserve it. It's the only way to heal.
thank you Dante
Larry, I have confronted FOO members before and it was not especially helpful. I ended up retraumatised because needless to say there are very very few abusers/long-term neglecters who want to know what they had a hand in or what they did solely. Otherwise they would have stopped doing it years ago. Mine went into absolute denial.
We have a Recovery Letter forum here https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?board=43.0 where you can write a letter you will never send. You will be seen here by us though. Truly, for some of us this forum has been a life-saver where we are heard and understood.
You are not alone. :grouphug:
I would also say a certain amount of closure comes with recovery, for me in therapy. I won't pretend it hasn't been rather a long and painful journey. Though for those people starting their journey now it might be somewhat easier because more is known about cptsd.
You have either started or continued your recovery by reaching out on here! :cheer:
I don't know who coined this originally but our reactions to what was done to us are normal reactions to an abnormal situation. Those normal reactions become problematic eventually, but it doesn't mean that you're not normal. Also cptsd is not a mental illness, it is an injury.
you guys and everyone on this forum have been extremly helpful, thank you, i know i am not the only person with issues, and sometimes i feel guilty focusing on myself, i try to respond to other posts , it feels good to get so much feedback from others, i would like to help someone else feel that.
TW for the analogy below, hopefully not, but just in case.
I often feel the same way. I want to help and respond to everyone partly because I do care and partly because I know that it's a way to self abandon (if I'm honest). But I also know I have limited time, and so I have to accept that I contribute where I can and appreciate those that contribute back to me.
Yesterday I was thinking exactly about this, and I think it's like the instructions on the airplane - make sure your own mask is on before helping others. That's not selfish, that's smart - you can't help someone if you're sucking wind. I know I feel like I'm being narcissist if I'm doing anything for myself at all, but the narcissist wouldn't help someone else put their mask on. They'd just gaslight and tell you that you didn't need a mask, then laugh at you while you asphyxiated.
you are an amazing person Dante, i really like you perspective on things.
Aw shucks, thank you Larry. I don't take compliments well, but I'll try to accept yours. :)
Everyone on here, I've found, is amazing. And that includes you too.
I've realized one thing over the years, and that's that I'm actually lucky. There are so many walking wounded people, but at least I know what's wrong with me. Or I'm learning. And you're motivated enough to learn too - and that's what makes you amazing! :)
QuoteYesterday I was thinking exactly about this, and I think it's like the instructions on the airplane - make sure your own mask is on before helping others. That's not selfish, that's smart - you can't help someone if you're sucking wind. I know I feel like I'm being narcissist if I'm doing anything for myself at all, but the narcissist wouldn't help someone else put their mask on. They'd just gaslight and tell you that you didn't need a mask, then laugh at you while you asphyxiated.
Well said Dante :applause:
Larry, most of us who have been here a while understand that new members need to focus on getting that mask on at first so no worries. As time goes by you will likely find yourself reaching out to help others more, not out of obligation but because you understand what it feels like to grapple with CPTSD and may have a suggestion, encouragement or comfort to offer.
than you kizzie, i am having such a hard time, i thought i was doing so good, i thought i had an EF 3 or 4 weeks ago, maybe i am mislabeling it, it really messed me up. I have been really having a hard time, i have been struggling with alcohol, i don't feel like i am addicted, but i really need it to cope with things. I really appreciate all of you. I am so lost right now.
It's ok. We all fall in and out of feeling lost. Just keep being as kind to yourself and as accepting of what is happening as is possible. You're going to get through this flashback or triggering or whatever it is. This happens to all of us and knocks us on our butts and all feels dark and hopeless. And then...slowly or quickly it lifts and passes.
Thank you Armee, every morning i try to tell myself it is a new day. hoping for the best.
Hey Larry,
I wish I could track my path of healing from one day to the next, but I can't. I can, however, track it from one year to the next. As I continue to pursue healing wherever I can find it, in books, blogs, forums, and therapy, I can easily see that I'm a little farther along today than I was a year ago.
Everyone hates to hear "Time will help" but it's true, as long as we use that time to continue pursuing help, as you are doing. You are on the right path, my friend, and as you stay on this path, and keep connecting with these awesome people on this forum, your life really will improve slowly but surely.
Remember, I quit drinking becuase I never quit quitting. Also, there came a day when I had to stop saying I didn't consider myself to be an alcoholic. I finally just accepted that anyone who can't quit drinking is addicted. The word for someone who couldn't stop drinking was "alcoholic." As soon as I fully accepted I was one, I was able to accept the tools that were available to me to get help. I quit drinking because I accepted the tools. I went into rehab. I joined AA. I started admitting to my friends and coworkers that I'm a recovering alcoholic. And I haven't had a drink now in 7 years.
But each time I quit, I learned a little bit more for the next time. One day I just finally got past that finish line and realized I was going to make it stick because I could finally feel the benefits of not drinking finally outweighed the desire to keep drinking.
I'm still pulling for you!!!!!
Larry i am sitting here anguishing with you when you say "I am so lost right now".
I've had so many moments of feeling exactly that, and sometimes I've felt it was as a reaction to days of feeling I was getting somewhere.
The image that has just come to me is that of my struggle to literally float in the water. I was unable to float in the water until I was in my mid thirties. I did not trust the water to hold me and I'd thrash around and inevitably sink.
My wish for you, and an insight for me right now , is that you are able to somehow cease the thrashing around long enough to 'float' through this feeling of being lost.
I've also experienced what others describe here - feeling lost and then recovering, then falling again and then recovering. And the need to accept that, in time, my perspective will change, hopefully for the better. But I still do struggle to accept what I've learnt when I'm in the midst of turmoil and feeling lost.
The insight your words have given me is that my current turbulence this morning, my wish to shut my front door and never let another human being enter my home, will pass and I need to somehow trust this and 'float' through this morning's distress.
We on this forum have been injured by other humans and we're left trying to manage the effects of the injuries through whatever means we can. It is such an injustice that has been done to us. I am grateful for this community, where those confronting this injustice and its consequences can support each other.
I hope my words are helpful. And thank you Larry, for helping me, by being here and giving voice to your struggles.
i really appreciate all of you. i'm not sure what i need to do to feel ok, but i am taking it one day at a time, I had 1 drink today, really, just 1. Had a good day at work, hoping tomorrow will be good to me.
:cheer: just one is amazing! Good job!
Thank you Armee !
:grouphug: and :thumbup:
Hooray and congrats!!!
I am off work today and it worries me, i don't like having so much free time to think about things. I really wanted to try to do something fun today, it is already 2 pm, and i haven't left the house. it is 86 degrees and sunny, why am in inside all day ?
Quiet time is my worst time. If you haven't read Pete Walker's book, I highly recommend it (Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving". He describes the 4F types; when my brain is idle, it flees into obsessive thinking. Sounds like that might be where you are at.
It also sounds like you need some down time, so maybe try to do something for yourself. Watch a movie you've been wanting to see, or read a book. Or find a coloring book (crayons are still awesome). You don't have to leave the house if you're off of work, but you won't enjoy not leaving the house if you get stuck obsessing about leaving the house.
I need to get that book, i made myself take one of my dogs to the beach today, it was nice to get some sun and go for a walk. i didn't really do it for me, but i really enjoyed it.
:sunny: :thumbup:
Larry,
You got me to thinking: I haven't left the house in weeks except to run errands. If I can't do anything nice for myself, then maybe I need to find someone to do something nice for. Something that also pleases me too. You took your dog to the beach for your dog--but it got you out on the beach! I don't have a dog, but maybe I can find someone who needs my help with something...maybe then I'll go to the beach for them, if not for myself.
I'm on a mission: Rather than calling my Fawn-type personality "a problem", I need to just look at it as: Well...this is what I have to work with. I have a me-shaped hole in my chest because I was raised to disrespect (hate) myself as much as my family did. Okay. So it is what it is. What am I going to do with that? I haven't found a way to erase the past, so I need to take what I'm given and work with it. Your comment, that you didn't do it for yourself, but at least you did it, makes me think I should maybe find someone who needs what I need and do it for / with them.
I'm no closer to knowing what that is yet, or who needs it, but I'm going to call this new idea a seed that I'll think on, and post on, for a few days until something starts to come to mind.
It's like when my boys were young. They started getting bullied at middleschool, so I enrolled them into Tai Kwon Do classes, and to support them I enrolled myself also. I ended up learning a little TKD because I was fawning over my boys. But guess what! I learned it! I would have never taken those classes if I hadn't done it for someone else.
There might be a strategy here. If not for me, then for someone else...and I'll tag along for the ride.
seems so hard to do something for ourselves. my dogs have been a life savor. they love me without judging, even if i'm drunk. sad, depressed. doesn;t matter. I want to do things for myself. but it makes me feel guilty and selfish. i hope you can find something to get you out of the house. even if it is for someone other than yourself.
It's good that you have your dogs.
I saw a documentary on a dog that they can prove knows a thousand words. They make a HUGE pile of toys in the room and they tell the dog to get "the pink bunny." The dog digs around until it comes back with the pink bunny. They do it again and again with all different toys and the dog always retrieves the exact toy they told it to. They also found that this little stinker was willing to sit perfectly still in an MRI machine. or a PET scan, or one of those big brain watching machines (I forget which one). What made that experiment so heartwarming was that they noticed the dog got excited every time someone came into the room but got extra excited when his master came in. Then they noticed that when the dog was looking directly into the eyes of his master, the part of the brain that is associated with "hugging" in us, lit up bright red. They finished the documentary with "So when your dog is staring at you, he's litterally hugging you with his eyes."
I LOVE dogs. I'm glad you have some there for you right now.
1 of my dogs, a cocker spaniel, knows at least 20 toys. everytime he gets a new toy, it gets a name. you can ask him to find a toy by name, even if it is an old toy, he will find it. they truly are amazing animals, and there love is non judgemental. we need more dogs and less people !
When you do something for your pets, indirectly, you do something for you. Congrats on just that one drink, not more.
I like the thought of the "eye hug"
Quote"So when your dog is staring at you, he's litterally hugging you with his eyes."
Your spaniel knows the score. What breed is your other dog?
I have a lab german shepherd mix, and a maltese yorkie mix. they really help me keep it together ! sometimes i only get out of bed because they need thier breakfast. but at least it gets me out of bed !
Hi Larry.
So nice "to meet you" for the first time.
It is very stormy here in the UK, so my dog and I haven't been able to get out for our usual walk. She is a princess, and doesn't like the rain!
By the way, my dog is a mixed terrier rescue dog. She is such a character!
But it has given me the chance to read this caring thread.
I am sorry to read what you have been through with your father, and your daily struggles, as a result of your lack of closure. I do understand, even though my parents are still alive.
I know it sounds trite, but it does get better. If you can get out every day, with your dogs, then that is a win, a victory, whatever you like to call it. Then your dogs love you, for what you have given them, so think positively of yourself for that. Genuinely, this was my first step in healing from childhood abuse, and a dysfunctional marriage.
Keep on coming here for support and encouragement. We are all here for you.
thank you Libby ! i really appreciate all the support
i have a therapy appointment for next friday ! scared and excited at the same time. i don't know what to expect, but i know i need to try something.
Wow! I'm so proud of you!!!
I was terrified of my therapy sessions for about 2 years. So maybe expect to be pretty darn nervous and know that is very normal. I also tried to pretend like I had it all together for about a year and a half. 😂 You don't need to do that. Kind of counter productive.
I think my experience at least too is that trauma therapy doesn't leave you feeling better after therapy. Over time there are huge improvements but it is very unsettling to even be in a physical space where this stuff might come out.
If you can, let the therapist know you struggle with substances so they know to help you with other ways to cope with the distress that will arise during therapy. Like I normally was a 4 glasses of wine a week person but after some sessions it was 4 glasses a night to cope. But that's up to you when you feel comfortable talking about that or anything. Slow slow slow, and at your pace, is so important.
thank you Armee!,, i told her on the phone today that i have been over drinking to cope. i really don't want to do that. i have been drinking and driving, riding my motorcycle, i think i am trying to get hurt. i just really do not want to hurt somone else. i know it will be scary, and probably painful. i just hope i can get results and feel somewhat normal.
Way to go Larry! I feel proud for you!!!
thank you Dante, i really hope i can go to the appointment! i don't expect a miracle, but i really hope it helps,
Hey Larry, Way to go!
You keep saying you're nervous about your first therapy session because you don't konw what to expect. So I wrote a few notes here to hopefully help you feel a little less anxiety about it.
First of all: Therapy is really important in gaining control of CPTSD. I hope, hope, hope this is a good therapist who does understand CPTSD, because if she is, then you will likely feel pretty comfortable by the end of the first visit.
Another thing I like about therapists is it is their job listen. They chose this job. They aren't there because they have to be. They went to college for it and started a practice because they want to help. So I needn't feel any guilt for dumping my issues onto them. So, therefore my Fawning doesn't grip me as bad as if I was asking a friend for help. When I'm talking to a friend I feel like I should be the one taking care of them, and if they help me with one thing, I feel I owe to help them with two in return. But when I visit a therapist whose self-imposed job is to help me, then I feel like I don't owe them anything, and my chronic fawning takes a much needed break.
The hardest part for me in the beginning of my therapy, (decades ago) was coming to realize how much I really can trust my therapist. Mine is a beautiful, caring, gentle man, but I had never trusted anyone before, and it took me a while to really come to grips with the fact that he really was always on my side. My therapist is over 70 years old now but won't retire because he loves helping people feel good about themselves. Trust, for us CPTSD survivors, takes a little time. Therapists know that, but they can be very helpful before you build up your trust, and then, one day, when you finally really feel safe with her/him, your therapy sessions get even better.
Most often, the first session is a very positive experience. She needs to get to know you, while you get to know her, but she will likely give you something wonderful to feel good about by end of day one.
What you're going through, your drinking and driving and self-destructive actions are normal for many CPTSD survivors who are in the duress you and many of us on this site have lived through. These risky acts on motorcycles and cars are what she went to school to learn how to help us with. I seriously doubt you're going to surprise her with any problems she hasn't helped others with before, nor will again.
Okay, so much for my sales pitch on the value of a good therapist. I just know how scary the unknown is, but I also feel that the good therapists are really good people.
I'm excited for you. I can't wait to hear from you after your first visit. I've got all fingers and toes crossed that your first visit is going to be nothing but positive for you.
I'm on your side!
Just wanted to chime in to say that I'm so inspired by you, Larry, and your courage in just showing up and being honest and seeking help. I'm new here, too, and I was nervous about it at first, but have been amazed at the wisdom and kindness in this forum. So glad you are here, too. (And I can absolutely relate about using alcohol to cope. You are certainly not alone in that struggle.) :grouphug:
thank you all for the advice ! staying sober today, just trying to relax a little. the first session is a little over a week away, i know i will get a little more scared each day, but i really feel like there is hope.
That's awesome, Larry!
thanks Dante, i am off work today, going to try to get some exercise, hopefully no drinking today. i don't like days off, i want to do something fun but don't know how anymore.
:thumbup: :applause: What's important IMO is that you don't want to drink and want to get some exercise, big shift Larry! Like anything it takes practice and patience to learn to be sober and present. :yes:
I totally relate, Larry. I think that's the biggest part of why I still struggle with addictions. Because they're the only thing I know how to do for me. If I stop them, then what would I do instead? That's the question I'm trying to figure out the answer to. But I understand completely what you're saying.
i really want to get out of the house today, not sure why i am still sitting here. i feel a little lost, i know if i get outside i will feel better. i hope you all are having a nice day , i appreciate all the support !
Out you go, Larry! Toss on those shoes and go go go! You want to feel better, you know what will make you feel better, do it for yourself. No one else is going to make you feel better. You have to claim that right for yourself. You have to fight for yourself and your right to exist and heal.
And I'm curious what you end up doing with your day!
thank you Armee! i want to take my dogs to the beach, and get some sun. going to get dressed and ready, i know i have to make myself do this or i will sit here all day and be depressed. it's just easier to not do anything.
It sure is! I get how hard it is!
Tell us about the beach when you get back!
didn't stay long, but i did it ! it was nice, and the dogs really enjoyed it! also re planted a few things outside. not sure what i am going to do this evening, but haven't had any drinks yet today ! it almost scares me being in a good mood.
Things going well is a major trigger for me to start drinking. Hope is very scary to me, it means that I'm about to get caught and punished. Hang in there, you can do it!
Great job Larry! It can be really hard to get out and treat ourselves the way we deserve to be treated. And yeah I see you CPTSD. I mean treated WELL not the way we sometimes think we deserve to be treated like crud.
I'm really impressed how you see what you need help with and come here and post to get that help and encouragement. You really do want to get better and it takes every bit of that will to do it.
not too long ago i didn't really know anything about my condition, i have lived with it so long i thought it was almost normal. i really want to hel and be happy without the guilt and shame. thank you all for being so supportive !
I hope you can have a good day dante, you deserve it. and thank you Armee ! you both are my hero !
i walked to a bar by my house, i had 3 beers, hopefully will not drink any more tonight. i think i did it out of boredom. i didn't drive, so i guess that is a start !
i have 5 drinks today, i feel really weird counting the drinks. next Friday is the big day, first session , i really hope i don't start drinking heavy before then. i read a post today that said " healing also means taking an honest look at the role you are playing in your own suffering"
Wow, that really hit me, i have not been helping myself. I want to heal, it has been so hard to not just drink and forget. I really want this , trying so hard to do the right things.
You can really want something and it can still be very difficult to achieve even when we are theoretically in charge of our own bodies and reactions. Yes, you can choose to not have a drink or 5 or 10. And yet also in a way your drinking is a trauma reaction. I think of it a little like how my body will involuntary react when I am triggered. I cannot stop it from doing that. In fact the more I fight it the worse it reacts. So there's some balance there in accepting that your drinking is a trauma reaction and that it is very hard not just a matter of sheer will power to change that behavior and response. You probably have more control of whether you drink and drive as it seems that is a step removed from the initial reaction but I may be wrong as I don't tend to have the risk taking reactions as much.
Quote from: Larry on October 15, 2021, 03:28:36 AM
i read a post today that said " healing also means taking an honest look at the role you are playing in your own suffering"
Wow, that really hit me, i have not been helping myself.
In my experience, an opinion like the one you quoted may be useful or not so much depending upon where you are in your recovery. Sometimes that 'honest look' might actually be your Inner Critic. If that honest look triggers you off into something else, I'd be wary.
I think you are starting therapy soon? A therapist would help you get the balance right between looking and stabilising/re-stabilising.
thank you both, i am still trying to figure things out. what you both said makes so much sense. i really have no idea what i am doing. just trying to get through each day. making some coffee, then see where the day goes.
i only had 5 drinks today. really trying ,first therapy session is next friday, i am worried the anxiety might make me drink more.
Larry, be gentle with yourself. You've been suffering alone and in silence for a long time. The root cause that's making you drink is something you've not even started to address - but you will soon with therapy. In my experience, when you're hurting at your core, trying to abstain from your drug of choice (alcohol, food, actual drugs whatever) is like holding your breath. You can only hold it so long before you have to breathe.
I'm not saying go out and go get drunk. I'm saying give yourself the same love that you'd give a hurt and scared child. Because it's your hurt and scared inner child that needs love. Just a little more to go and the best thing about 12 steps I learned is "one day at a time".
Maybe try to find some things to do - back to the beach, play with your dog, drink some coffee while the sun rises (or sets). Hang in there, you'll get there. I know you will, because I see the same desire and urgent need to heal and heal from your addiction that I've felt for decades. You haven't given up yet, and that's all that matters.
thank you dante ! not sure where i would be without the help from everyone here. i have been reading and trying to learn as much as i can to help myself. i am tired of being alone in the dark. 6 days until i start therapy. the T is trained in EMDR , not sure if that is what i need,
my local pub aceepted me back, i wanteed to be goood, not sure how i got home, i an=m reaally trying to be good, be normal, why is it sio hard !!! i have a therapy session this friday, my first session, i really hope i can do it, i am scared, so much anxiety
Hi Larry, one more day. Hang in there. You can do it!
thank you dante ! i want to find a way to reduce anxiety without drining, i don't want to drink before my session. i want to be sober for that. i know my anxiety will be out of control.
Hey Larry. If you can, just embrace the anxiety. Go in a shaking ball of terrified nerves. If you can't say anything at all, that's ok. Just let the therapist see the real you. I hid the real me from mine for 2 years. That didn't help me get better fast. 🙂
i will try , i feel like i need this. i don't want to blow it. i know after the session i will probably feel so relieved. i just have to make myself do it.
anyone around? i need a friend right now
anyone here tonight?
i am trying not to drink anymore tonight, but i don't know what else to do
I'm sorry you are struggling tonight. You have been working really hard and staying more sober than usual. No matter what happens tonight with drinking please be proud of yourself for all the hard work you've been putting in to get better.
Instead of drinking, my unwanted coping includes dissociation. Problem is, when I am triggered into dissociating, I can't remember any of the tools for getting out. I'm just sunk into it, and my brain is disconnected and not functioning. That means that when I most need to know what exactly to do to get back from or to keep from dissociation...I literally cannot figure it out on my own because my brain has turned off key critical thinking faculties. I bet something similar happens when you are feeling like you need to drink, and don't want to, but don't know what else to do.
I needed help in those moments knowing what to do. What I ended up having to do, knowing my brain wouldn't function during an episode, was to write it down before hand and keep it on my phone. It was like this:
YOU HAVE TO FIGHT TO STAY PRESENT
- pet the dog
- throw a ball
- laugh
- jump
- go fo a walk or run
- tell [spouse] you are dissociating
- slam a rock or make another loud noise
- say something anything just form some words outloud.
I wonder if making a list here of what you can do when you feel like drinking but don't want to might help if you can come back and find it again, add to it, and make note of what works and doesn't work?
thank you so much armee, i need all the coping tools i can get right now. i did have more drinks, i didn't know what else to do. i reallly want to get better. my T is off this week. i really need to get some help right now. i don't want to drink, but it is the only thing that works
Aw Larry my heart is breaking for you. There are other things that work but they aren't quick and easy. But on the other side of working through the feelings instead of drowning them out is relief finally. Long lasting relief. The holidays are hard and therapists are taking time off. Hang on. We're rooting for you.
i feel pretty good today, trying not to beat myself up, i didn't get too drunk, i feel ok with how my drinking has been going. i wish i could make myself dissociate, it happens only when it wants to,
i really appreciat you armee, i am going to try to find a replacement. i like the idea of having a list of things to try.