Does your inner critic ever have a different voice then your own? Mine will hiss sometimes, insults. Since doing inner child work I will sometimes think I hear a child's voice in my head. Also sometimes in my head I hear my own voice kind of cheering myself on or vouching me to do different things example I know I'm zoning out then hear my voice say " you better get off your phone " or I'll hear a voice say " your not gay your just confused " it's just like a commentary on my life but occasionally the voice doesn't sound like me. I don't think it's anything like schizophrenia but now that I'm listening for this stuff I do hear a lot of contradiction within my self?
No it's not psychotic, just the work of a good memory. I often think that's something we share. All those voices were real once and we didn't forget them or their messages.
Sometimes it's my mother's voice with all her wounded outrage, sometimes my sister's condescending dismissals, sometimes even my dad's terrifying bellowing. Their exact words, the phrases and intonations that imprinted themselves so deeply they feel right there. I know about hissing - the insults & accusations that were so beneath contempt they didn't require much words. Drop that now, or about to strike.
My own critical voice is always the same, and it seems ageless. I was like an adult as a child (in my feelings of responsibility and effort) and a child as an adult (in my fearfulness and self-protection). The sound is someone punished and punishing, the voice of a doomed and despicable quitter who will disparage because that's what's expected.
The good self-talk is here and now. The voice is mine completely. It can be fleeting, but it is pure oxygen when I am suffocating with ruminations. It reminds me we can only move from the place we find ourselves. There's no undoing the past.
I keep reading about he inner critic here and at times I didn't think that I had that part. I really do think a lot of the inner critic from the abusive people in My life I have worked on..so many of the OLD inner critic voices don't talk to me much.
I do feel OLD now. I would think of things like how gray I am now, and those wrinkles.. :sadno: I honestly am not even thinking about a new relationship but do think No one would want me the way I am anyway! So right now I AM critical of My looks..
My daughter really tries to encourage me to go out with her because she knows I am depressed. I am in such a depression, and panic that I usually won't. The other day she begged me and I conceded, and went out. Just in My normal clothes and with My hair in a pony tail.
She works in a small town bar and Knows most of the people so we went there. She proudly introduces me to her customers. It was busy that night and lots of people. I started looking around and I realized that I do not look as bad as I think I do. Inner critic? Most of the women younger than me had more wrinkles, fatter, etc. It gave me a better feeling about doing things..It gave me a better feeling about Myself!
When I was a child at home I felt that I was UGLIE! I was a short blonde, skinny, thin hair, big nose.. :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: My siblings were tall dark and handsome., Since I was a child of a first marriage, My Mother always seemed ashamed of me. She'd leave me home a lot by myself. I was like her mistake. i always felt that way!
When I worked in the beauty shop I really DID learn some acceptance. I realized that I was normal like everyone else. I used to watch people and be so hard on MYSELF, I mean everyone has good and bad features. I finally worked on that by looking at people and seeing them as G-d sees them. I guess that is radical acceptance.
So anyway I don't feel as bad last week. when I hear that voice saying I don't look good.. I will kick it in the A$$ running! :cheer:
I am just starting to hear my ICr and its faint so I'm not sure if its different people or me at different ages. That said, I do often have visual images of my NPDM's angry and disapproving look (her lips would draw into a thin tight line), my F's look of contempt and dismissal, and/or my NPDBs condescending smirk, and that's accompanied by the feelings of fear, shame and anger respectively.
I can hear my IC though, but can't always see her (so am planing on gathering some pics of me from various ages so I can have that visual image to go along with her voice). Walker talks about "the look" as being especially triggering for a lot of his clients and I would count myself in on this one.
Interesting how these ego states and ghost memories materialize for each of us.
Whenever I read about what you guys have already done when it comes to ICr work, I am in awe. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
I really need to get a move on my ICr work and find out what method of communication it uses to put me down...
This is such a good question as to the voice. I have thought long and hard on this before posting.
I first went into therapy in my twenties, after leaving the childhood home and knowing my parents hardly showed up for the job and that I had to raise myself. With my first appointment, I went in saying I had a "nagging crotchety old woman's voice in my head that put me down all the time." Gravely, nasty voice!!!! He asked if it reminded me of anyone in particular. No, it did not ...and that I hoped I was not schizophrenic as I heard this voice (oh, I was so innocent back then!)
It is quite normal to have all the various voices in our heads.
I have done much recovery work over these decades. The old nag's voice went away, but unknown to me, the Inner Critic was still there (until reading Pete Walker's recent book!) ...and the Inner Critic simply took on new voices, like a "sweet sounding, quiet, kind woman's voice" with gross messages. Evidently, the nagging one crushed me the most in my 20s, so that is what was used. :yes:
I know the Inner Critic by the ENERGY of the Inner Critic, not the voice. Think of how you walk into a room full of people, and that you can feel people's energy. This is what I mean.
The biggest signal I get that it is the Inner Critic blasting away at me is the NEGATIVE content. Thoughts coming through that demean me ...and, it may NOT have a voice at all. Just as emotional flashbacks may not have visuals, the Inner Critic does not always have a discernable voice.
When he does have a voice (and surprising, it is a "he" for a lot of folks ...and, yes ...it is speculated by some people that the Inner Critic has "ties to the bad guy in h-e-l-l"), these days it is a smooth man's voice with authority saying how truly incompetent I am.
I get "sneak attacks" from the Inner Critic these days, as I am getting better and better at spotting him. MY huge clue I've been attacked successfully is when I am feeling defeated, in despair, and the "there is no hope" along with I'm clearly a "piece of garbage" feelings ...my head pops up with realization that the Inner Critic did it again!! I can look back on my day and remember the disparaging thoughts that went with the activities I was doing ...like little drips of acid. Tiny enough not to be noticed ...that is what I mean by sneak attacks.
So, these days ...I deal with an often voiceless Inner Critic. Years ago, he took on many disguises of various voices.
I recognize the Inner Critic by the NEGATIVITY. A Good and Loving Judge (like we were supposed to have when a kid has a LOVING parent) guides with LOVE, and pep talk...true guilt is there if we really did harm someone ...that is the GOOD Judge, the Good SuperEgo ...You CAN Choose a Good Person, and let that person be your Good Judge (kick the Inner Critic out!!!)
IF I hear negative messages with or without a voice, that are ridiculous to what I am doing, that IS the Inner Critic. I vacuum the kitchen floor ...hey, I missed the corner as I see later ...the Inner Critic points out that I'm hopelessly incompetent, that I shouldn't even try as I always fail. See what I mean? That's the true sign of the Inner Critic from what I have experienced...negative, demeaning of me. It obviously can be different for others, I can only share my experience, of course.
For me, it does not matter what voice this is delivered in ...that is the damn Inner Critic. A bunch of heavy neurons laid down in the brain with tons of negative messages that abusive parents put in us (programming) ...yup, that is what happens to our brain with years of their abuse, criticisms, and demeaning of us. Our parent(s) rejection and/or ignoring us had us adding to it, thinking we must be "bad" if our parents don't have the time of day for us as kids. And, out of this comes the Inner Critic, from what I understand.
Rain - what a GREAT post! Just wanted to say how helpful and true your remarks are. The voice may change, but the overriding tone of negativity, blame and condemnation (even doom) is how we can always recognize it. Sometimes even just a speck of mental disagreement, a tiny, internal squeak of objection or self-forgiveness can turn everything around. It's like an atrophied muscle we need to locate and strengthen.
Great thread thanks Sasha. The ICr that used words is defeated - it's scared of me! But RAIN your post helped me to see that I need to be mindful of the wordless/covert attacks. Thanks so much for this insight.
Thanks coda! Thanks Rr! It really helped to even think about this ...so, thanks Sasha for bringing the question up on this topic.
I'm glad it helps!! Coda, you are so lucky a "speck of mental disagreement" gets rid of the ICr for you!!! I have to be fierce, and very rejecting of the ICr to truly have him gone. It seems to last from 4 hours to maybe a day, but it is such a relief!!!! Like getting a gross, negative guest out of the house!
Most of my life it has communicated with me in a loud thundering voice. Male, my father's and a little of my nasty sounding sister's voice. It uses failures and my inabilities to crush me from thinking I can ever do anything at all. It's all proof that I'm a piece of *.
Until I did some inner child work and he got separated out as only one part of my personality, I am pretty sure I was completely identified with him, and that's why I couldn't get anywhere.
It's usually in the second person--someone talking to me "You're a piece of *." But when it somehow joins in the conversation I'm having with someone out loud, it will change to first person "I'm not worth *."
I actually did have a counselor diagnose me with Schizoaffective Disorder. Which is Schizophrenia with Depression. Yes, she was very wrong, (even with depression--I don't really have that, I have reactions to circumstances, duh) but at the time I was so scared. I was in the process of getting on disability and thought I would be committed or something. My point is not all therapists understand the difference between psychotic voices and our neurotic voices!
I sometimes (when I'm not being tortured by him) have a good view of the inner critic. I see him as keeping me from doing things where I might get hurt again. It's like he's protecting me in his own twisted way. IE Making me feel like * so I won't go out and end up having OTHER people make me feel like * by getting rejected.
Sending you a hug, pam! :bighug:
Gracious. I hope no one ..."inside" you ...or outside you ...is wanting you to "feel like s***"!! :sadno:
Personally, I do not want even two more seconds of the creepy Inner Critic ...he only wants to destroy me, and does zero to protect me.
I have a Good Inner Judge now (I FIRED my Inner Critic ...he's a failure!).
:hug:
Thank you! All of you! Rain that is the best description! I couldn't have articulated it like that, this inspires me to be more mindful! It's odd when I'm the most frantic I cannot discern the voice but I think it's because the voice feels good in that moment as it is telling me not to show emotion at all costs so I " it " and I have the same goal in that moment! The fear of showing emotion is huge for me and causes me to either panic , punish , or check out compleatly. As a kid emotion turned into interrogation and then blame shifting and gas lighting. So now when I get panicked I fear I will be punished b/c after all... The scared look on a child's face must somehow put things into perspective for the pd parent but in there sickness instead of comfort they rage to show you why your fear is the problem not there behavior. I must be better at staying grounded now because last night I felt panic and my SO asked what was wrong and I only checked out for 15 minutes apparently I told her something about feeling disgusting and not being good enough to be loved I kinda remember it! But then I grounded I think b/c I had my first full on pannic attack in a long time. I think it was I was nervous and dreadful for the next 40 minutes, then felt with it but terrible stomach pain and a huge headache! Also just totally drained with chills and feeling I could throw up! I can't hear the critic in these moments because it's coaching me down
And Sasha2727, I learned a lot from your post just now. Thank you too!!! :yourock:
Thank you! I have another thing to add after my panic attack and sick bout something strange happened... I got angry! I'm notorious for being anxious and codependent very submissive, however after finally feeling my fear and showing it :/ my gf was very supportive and oddly I became very angry with myself. She left to go work and was texting checking in but my response was very abnormal for myself I used the word " hate " like 4 times describing feeling afraid and feeling neurotic as things I hated? This am I found myself promising never to let anyone yell at me or control me again still just angry feeling! After my first breakup with a NP girlfriend I did this, I got help to leave her and would was having panic attacks then too. I would wake up with grey hair after she would devalue me. The shrink quickly got me into childhood talk and i concluded yes I was abused and yes this was me allowing it in adulthood. I then got angry felt anger possibly for the first time in 10 years. So from about. 12 till 22 unable to feel anger only FOG. Well once I felt it I rapidly lost 80lbs and now see got stuck in flight and flee vrs my norm of fawn and freeze. I got really vain and guarded! Was asked out by very attractive girls and boys but would not go there. Anyway it's funny how I'm in fight now this am after finally allowing the pannic to come! I by no means want to walk in anger or entitlement however, this allows for accomplishing tasks and going outdoors! Lol would I rather be a N myself that can pay bills and go outside to face the world or scared yet altruistic fawn? Ha! I'm simply saying that those modes are real and with this insight they do cover up very painful states of being! Calling the damn shrink today! I'm very hopeful as she does both DBT and emdr! Sorry I got off topic but this sudden flip to anger is astonishing to me, it has been 3 years since I have felt anger other then PMS! And even then I apologize.
Ps. I find when the inner critic is another voice sounding like " the big man down below " or a female hiss talking out loud saying " leave " or contradicting it outloud works the best!
Same here. I used to get angry, but never about my past or my family. It's very freeing though. I dissasociate a lot less these days, and I think it's because of that.
My inner critic has a way of taking over my entire worldview. I don't hear a voice. My critic simply changes how I see the world, other people, myself, everything. It's a lot like what happens during a depression. Cognitive behavioral therapy helps a lot - simply identifying negative thought patterns and educating myself about what's a realistic and non-CPTSD-y way of seeing things. It's rather like unbrainwashing oneself after having been exposed to too much propaganda.
Great topic! I didn't even know I had an ICr until cPTSD recovery then I heard it! Anytime I hear a negative judgement or feel demeaned I look inside to listen to what I'm telling myself. It's usually my own voice that's how much its internalized within me. Here's the thing, in real life I ignore such talk when someone talks to me about someone else so I now ignore such backbiting, slanderous, gossipy type talk about my own self from within my own self. It's like myself is talking bad about myself to myself and doesn't deserve my ear to listen.
:tongue2: :bigwink:
Quote from: Butterfly on October 12, 2014, 11:49:58 AM
Here's the thing, in real life I ignore such talk when someone talks to me about someone else so I now ignore such backbiting, slanderous, gossipy type talk about my own self from within my own self. It's like myself is talking bad about myself to myself and doesn't deserve my ear to listen.
:tongue2: :bigwink:
I LOVE this, Butterfly!
;D
Excellent question and I have found that I have three states of mind that correspond with transactional analysis theory.
I have the broken inner child that must never be given the controls and when I spot that little boy I tend to find my anxiety levels rise and now that I can spot him try to select the 'Freeze' option until I can get one of the other states back in charge.
The second is parent mode, though I have no children, the cuddlers do not count, is quite firm with childish and bullying behaviours, it is where my ethical and social responsibility reside and I have many times relied on this state to take charge. It is also where my EQ works well and I am able to give emotional support. This is where I am at my best as it is very decisive once my adult has processed a least harm solution.
Third is my Adult self that interacts in a sequential and rational way, when in this mode I am able to sort the irrational thoughts but he does like to ruminate and likes a lot of information. It can take months to ruminate.
I have found my abusers hone in on the inner child. Maybe it is something that they do as after all they are 'Children pretending to be adults'. I think understanding which state is involved does help eradicate the abusers thoughts and suggestions.
Andy - do you feel as though your parts are separate or somewhat overlapping and work together as a team? I ask because until recently I felt that my Inner Child was very separate and stayed hidden in a dark place inside unless triggered/provoked and then she would rise up in fear or anger. It is only recently that she seems to be less separate and more a part of the "team" (of various other ego states).
For example, she had some issues with someone at a support group and wanted to take a poke at him, but adult/parent me chatted with her and together decided it would not be appropriate for her to take the floor. It was the oddest sensation. I suspect as I recover I will not feel/hear these parts having a convo, but that they will work together a little more quietly and seamlessly (integration).
Excellent question Kizzie,
I call them states rather than individuals all part of I guess the team, as the child part is definitely badly damaged he needs to be protected by the parent, if I am caught by surprise or triggered the child is the one that leaps out and that I have learnt to put direct into freeze mode until the adult and parent can decide what to do. When confronted as I was at the funeral I was incandescent with rage but managed somehow to hold it together long enough to cope but collapsed in distress later and that caused my adult and parent to confer and decide that a bigger parent authority figure was required to assert the solution as the NPD woman had clearly ignored my adult side and attacked the child.
My specialist remarked that she was amazed that I was able to work all this out under severe stress and not lash out. Mind I am told my eyes look like fire!
Yes that sounds about right your adult/parent teaching the child. BTW the creatures are for the inner child and the Dolphin is a child parent (She is in charge of looking after everything, but is only a trainee) and the Hedgehog the Child Adult and it is an outlet for the inner child and that makes the learning fun.
I find that when I am having a dystopian transaction the attack is always against the boy, they seem to be fearful of the parent especially.
WOW all this stuff is great! I seem to view my parts as the " Karpmen DRama Triangle " I have a victim a persecutor and a rescuer. Sometimes I hear screaming at me and that's my persecutor, If I don't thought stop I will dissociate. The victim part tends to come with freeze or flight, so I only talk with her once I am already dissociated, that's actually how I know its happening. The rescuer my primary role is one I'm working on now, I am into empowerment models and all of these roles can become empowerment roles instead of old scripts. My rescuer is my " fight " and in the past that meant working long hours and fixing people. Now I'm working with turning the rescuer into the "couch " or "self champion " that Robert Bradford talks about.
My inner child is very afraid and only recently just started to talk, she is quitter to me and is hiding, But I think she is gaining trust in me. I would be leery of me if I where her too because lord knows shes been exposed to some scary things.
I guess I'm still new to all of this. My IC does not speak to me in words, there is no voice at all. It's my own thoughts, my own feelings that are in control. For example, I have gained a few pounds over the last few years, which is my usual cycle: long term relationships make me "fat." I have not been going to the gym and I have been eating starchy, sugary snacks, so of course I'm not in great shape. But when I see the way the elastic in my pants makes a bunch of fat squeeze over the top, I am not thinking thoughts that can be put into words. I feel intense, overwhelming disgust and rage and desperation. There are no words, just empty promises to myself to start exercising, dieting, etc., which I will eventually start doing but it takes a perfect alignment of feelings and circumstances to launch such a lifestyle change. I have social phobia about going to the gym, old wounds from being bullied, teased and humiliated by other kids, coaches, and stepfather because I was unable to run fast or hit a ball.
Another example is my automatic de-valuation of my own creativity. Several years ago, a friend showed me how easy it is to make jewelry. I bought hundreds of dollars worth of tools and materials and had fun making it, at first. I even made little price tags for them, and had quite a collection of necklaces and earrings. But I never sold any. (maybe 1 or 2 items total, and I felt guilty for taking money for them) because the feeling I would get when trying to evaluate a piece would be overwhelming disappointment. Everything I made looked cheap to me, and just like, who would ever want this? I don't even wear any of it. I gave some away. Right now, there is one pair of earrings I still have and wear often, but the only reason I like them is because a neighbor girl I taught how to make jewelry came up with the design, and I copied her design exactly.
This is the same feeling that I can't even find words for that stops me from searching for and applying for jobs right now. This is why I'm unemployed for nearly a year.
How can I do "thought correction" therapy when I'm not fighting thoughts, but overwhelming feelings? These feelings tell me who I am, and they say I am nothing and have no value.
Hi voiceless, my ICr doesn't have a voice either. Like you said, it's not a separate entity at all; it's my own feelings and attitudes. What it most feels like is having been exposed to propaganda for decades and then having to unlearn all this so I can deprogram myself.
Some sights or situations now directly trigger negative feelings (like the ones you mentioned). So far, I've found that anything that helps me distance myself from this simple cause-effect system is helpful. Sometimes I'm able to uncover what precisely in my past has made me feel this way. Knowing that this-and-that abuse put this-and-that negative feeling into me doesn't fix anything, true. But it's making it easier to see that this isn't what the world is like. This isn't the truth. This is simply my subconscious lying to me. This is what someone else handed to me, what they did to me. This bad feeling isn't even mine, strictly speaking. It's theirs. Knowing that makes it possible to hand it right back to them, to reject their reasoning, and to decide that those people aren't trustworthy, I shouldn't believe a word they told me, let alone feel what they felt about me. I can reject it. I can hand it back. (And if it were THAT easy as I'm probably making it sound, I'd be a much happier woman.)
Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 28, 2014, 01:40:23 PM
Hi voiceless, my ICr doesn't have a voice either. Like you said, it's not a separate entity at all; it's my own feelings and attitudes. What it most feels like is having been exposed to propaganda for decades and then having to unlearn all this so I can deprogram myself.
Yes, exactly! Deprogramming is exactly what we are trying to do... ugh... so much wish they made a pill for this...
Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 28, 2014, 01:40:23 PM
Knowing that this-and-that abuse put this-and-that negative feeling into me doesn't fix anything, true.
Yeah, like I have no idea how I got so hung up on body image/appearance. My FOO was never critical of my appearance, and all my adult life I've had nothing but extremely positive feedback... I'm treated like an attractive person, and men always pay attention. The weird thing is, even though I like my reflection in the mirror when I do my makeup and hair, but every photo I have ever seen looks horrible, like elephant man horrible to me. The moment I step away from the mirror, the beauty stays there in the mirror. I cannot bring it with me.
So, I really have no clear connections between specific abuse or trauma, and a correlating hang-up. FOO was horribly neglectful, controlling with anger and threat and manipulation. I guess it's just left me with toxic shame that covers everything.
Quote from VoicelessAgony2: "So, I really have no clear connections between specific abuse or trauma, and a correlating hang-up. FOO was horribly neglectful, controlling with anger and threat and manipulation. I guess it's just left me with toxic shame that covers everything."
My heart goes out to you and to all of us :'(
This was the type of abuse I suffered too. Yes, the toxic shame covered everything. I had an eating disorder for 20 years; it was such torture.
Before receiving and understanding the Cptsd diagnosis I felt like the only person who had been this hurt and "damaged" who had actually managed to recover from most of it. It's like I'm this mostly whole person with a HELLISH history - both the HORRIBLE childhood, the HORRIBLE social rejection, and the EXTREMELY DIFFICULT and RELENTLESS recovery process. I felt like a total anomaly. But I'm not :wave: Now I'm here, we're HERE and we're STRONG and we are REMARKABLE human beings - HEROS all :applause:
Rrecovery, me too, I always felt like I was alone. No matter who I tried to talk to about this, responses always fall into one of two categories: either they could not identify at all, and didn't want to, or they competed with me, convinced that compared to THEIR childhood, I would feel soo much better about mine... (really? your dad yelled a lot? oh how horrible... )
but I don't feel much like a hero yet. I'm just beginning to see the recovery I need to do, as I was fooling myself all this time thinking I had put it all behind me.
Quote from: voicelessagony2 on November 29, 2014, 03:46:41 AM
Yeah, like I have no idea how I got so hung up on body image/appearance. My FOO was never critical of my appearance, and all my adult life I've had nothing but extremely positive feedback... So, I really have no clear connections between specific abuse or trauma, and a correlating hang-up. FOO was horribly neglectful, controlling with anger and threat and manipulation. I guess it's just left me with toxic shame that covers everything.
I have a theory about this. It might or might not be true. I have theories about lots of things, it's what I do instead of keeping pets: I keep theories. So take it with a pinch of salt. It might just be me reading too much into this, or (which is also likely) me being too bored for my own good. You'll know best if it's helpful or not. For what it's worth, here it is.
If there's an amount of abuse you can't just ignore, your brain will try to come up with a way to control it. A sense of control seems to be
incredibly vital for our mental health. It's actually one of the things that decides whether or not a traumatic event causes PTSD: did you have some way of exerting control, yes/no? If you were: brilliant, you've got a very good chance of emerging unscathed. If your sense of control was taken from you: BAD, bad, very bad. People usually imagine that it's all about the traumatic event itself (like this: surgery is harmless, a holdup is middling, war is the worst, and you get traumatized accordingly). But from what I've read about PTSD, it's more about this level of control (or lack of it).
From what I read about PTSD, our minds can be extremely creative when it comes to providing us with a sense of control. Even Stockholm Syndrome starts out as a coping style - it lets victims have a sense of control. If people dump abuse all over you, your brain will frantically try to achieve control of the situation. It will try to find an explanation. Not finding reasons makes us feel helpless, overwhelmed, and disoriented. Your instinctive reflex is: protect yourself and make yourself feel safe by
making yourself feel in control --> find a reason, then find solutions and coping strategies.
What happens if there
are no reasons? What if you did nothing wrong, and your abuse came out of the blue, for no reasons you were able to ever understand?
And here's my theory: your mind will then latch on to
anything that will even vaguely
look like it could explain things. Any explanation feels safer than having none at all. Being totally in the dark as to why abuse keeps happening feels so overwhelmingly scary that your mind starts clutching at straws.
In my case, my family was always living under a cloud because my father was very gravely ill. My mother only said "he's ill", and since I was only a child, I thought that "ill" meant something like a flu, something harmless. She tried to protect us, so she kept the worst of it a secret and made things sound more harmless than they were. But I could see that she was scared, shocked, tense, grieving, and incredibly determined to find a cure no matter what the cost. So there was this discrepancy between the explanation I was given and the reality I observed. So when one day my mother told me that we were running out of money and had to switch on every light we didn't need and try to use only the water we really needed - my mind latched onto that. Finally an explanation! Finally something I could actually work on and control! I had hang-ups about money from that day on, and they're still there. They're so deep-seated it's unlikely I'll ever be rid of them.
So this might be just me. I mean, it would be highly bizarre if every one of us had the same patterns of CPTSD. And sometimes, issues
do arise out of the blue and have no explanations.
Quote from: voicelessagony2 on December 01, 2014, 03:03:32 AM
... I always felt like I was alone... either they could not identify at all, and didn't want to, or they competed with me, convinced that compared to THEIR childhood, I would feel soo much better about mine...
Did you also get those motivational stories of how someone they knew went through
so much worse and it only made him stronger and he coped with it
ever so well?
Quote from: schrödinger's cat on December 01, 2014, 09:10:23 AM
If there's an amount of abuse you can't just ignore, your brain will try to come up with a way to control it. A sense of control seems to be incredibly vital for our mental health. It's actually one of the things that decides whether or not a traumatic event causes PTSD: did you have some way of exerting control, yes/no? If you were: brilliant, you've got a very good chance of emerging unscathed. If your sense of control was taken from you: BAD, bad, very bad. People usually imagine that it's all about the traumatic event itself (like this: surgery is harmless, a holdup is middling, war is the worst, and you get traumatized accordingly). But from what I've read about PTSD, it's more about this level of control (or lack of it).
From what I read about PTSD, our minds can be extremely creative when it comes to providing us with a sense of control. Even Stockholm Syndrome starts out as a coping style - it lets victims have a sense of control. If people dump abuse all over you, your brain will frantically try to achieve control of the situation. It will try to find an explanation. Not finding reasons makes us feel helpless, overwhelmed, and disoriented. Your instinctive reflex is: protect yourself and make yourself feel safe by making yourself feel in control --> find a reason, then find solutions and coping strategies.
What happens if there are no reasons? What if you did nothing wrong, and your abuse came out of the blue, for no reasons you were able to ever understand?
And here's my theory: your mind will then latch on to anything that will even vaguely look like it could explain things. Any explanation feels safer than having none at all. Being totally in the dark as to why abuse keeps happening feels so overwhelmingly scary that your mind starts clutching at straws.
Your pet theory makes a lot of sense to me. It helps me to see connections that I didn't see before. Examples: money - something I can control. I hate to spend money. Sometimes I feel like just walking out of a store leaving behind a cart of groceries because I feel so out of control that I am being forced to spend my money on this stuff. Money should not have been a problem in my FOO. My parents had a good income. I could hear only bits of snarled words late at night as they argued about you guessed it: money. As a young child who felt unloved and unwanted, I thought that I needed to grow up and pay them back all the money they spent on me.
My inner critic has an active life in my head because of the pattern in my childhood of getting punished for doing things wrong that I was never taught how to do correctly. I never actually remember making a conscious choice to do something wrong that I knew was wrong and I wanted to do it anyway. But I do remember getting in trouble out of the blue for things I thought were just fine.
Hah - that's actually helped me realize why my own money hang-up got created. It's to do with being taken care of, isn't it? As kids and adolescents, we need this feeling that our parents provide a kind of base camp for us that we can always return to, a place where we'll get what we need - food and hugs and understanding and all that. So maybe if you feel like that already anyway, that you can't ever take it for granted that someone will take care of you, then you're almost predestined to "overreact" to anything that
also makes you feel not-taken-care-of? Not sure...
And with body image issues, which I also have, there's this whole issue too: if I
already feel unworthy, like I'm never going to be lovable enough, like I'm somehow wrong, then anything that tells me precisely in what ways I'm unworthy is going to hit extra hard?
Quote from: Whobuddy...getting punished for doing things wrong that I was never taught how to do correctly. ... I do remember getting in trouble out of the blue for things I thought were just fine.
Whobuddy, that sounds crazy-making. My mother was often inconsistent, and it taught me that no matter what I do, no matter what my intentions are, the thing to keep in mind is: there'll always be someone more powerful than me and I'd best try to placate that person as best I can, even when I have no earthly idea on how to do that. :sharkbait: <--- like that, more or less.
SC thank you for sharing your theory. It helps me to understand the importance of the sense of control factor on a deeper level. 1: The Inner-critic is an attempt to change things by controlling ourselves - it keeps reminding us that bad things happen because we are not good enough. 2: Life itself is not controllable; it's best to relax and enjoy the ride - embrace the adventure. But those of us with Cptsd "need" a sense of control - this puts us in a stressed-out "no-win" scenario that's difficult to extricate oneself from.
Perhaps this why Buddhism is especially appealing to me: it emphasizes acceptance of life and the present moment as it is. Oh how I wish I could surrender completely, let go and stop wrestling with life - it's so exhausting.
Quote from: schrödinger's cat on December 01, 2014, 09:10:23 AM
Quote from: voicelessagony2 on November 29, 2014, 03:46:41 AM
Yeah, like I have no idea how I got so hung up on body image/appearance. My FOO was never critical of my appearance, and all my adult life I've had nothing but extremely positive feedback... So, I really have no clear connections between specific abuse or trauma, and a correlating hang-up. FOO was horribly neglectful, controlling with anger and threat and manipulation. I guess it's just left me with toxic shame that covers everything.
And here's my theory: your mind will then latch on to anything that will even vaguely look like it could explain things. Any explanation feels safer than having none at all. Being totally in the dark as to why abuse keeps happening feels so overwhelmingly scary that your mind starts clutching at straws.
That makes a LOT of sense, cat. Looking back at my early childhood through this lens puts a new light on things I never connected before. Like, when I was too young to be left alone with scissors, I cut off my eyelashes on one eye. I remember cuz my mom freaked out... I had (still have) really long eyelashes, I remember people always making a fuss over them. I honestly don't know what I was thinking, there was no deliberate thought like, I'm doing this to spite her. I also remember watching her and my older cousin put on their makeup, and I got a hold of some markers and did my own "makeup"... LOL!
But you know, maybe that's a glimpse into the whole appearance aspect of my self-defense framework.
Quote from: schrödinger's cat on December 01, 2014, 09:11:17 AM
Did you also get those motivational stories of how someone they knew went through so much worse and it only made him stronger and he coped with it ever so well?
OMG yes... which is why I just don't talk about personal stuff any more. With anyone.
Quote from: Whobuddy on December 01, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
My inner critic has an active life in my head because of the pattern in my childhood of getting punished for doing things wrong that I was never taught how to do correctly. I never actually remember making a conscious choice to do something wrong that I knew was wrong and I wanted to do it anyway. But I do remember getting in trouble out of the blue for things I thought were just fine.
Whobuddy, wow that happened to me too! My earliest memories are being terrified because my mom was super angry and punishing me and I had NO IDEA what I had done. One time she angrily washed out my mouth with soap, and made me sit in my room with the soap in my mouth, which sounds more like a harmless "Tom Sawyer" type moment, but it was traumatizing to me because I had no idea what I had said wrong. I remember crying so hard I couldn't breathe.
Quote from: Rrecovery on December 01, 2014, 02:48:11 PM
Oh how I wish I could surrender completely, let go and stop wrestling with life - it's so exhausting.
Me too, Rrecovery, me too. :hug:
I have been the poster on here that did not feel that I had an inner critic. Then I dicided that perhaps I did but I have been unable to recognize it. Well, Yesterday during a whole melt down, I realized that My inner critic was a set of rules. Rules in My head that I follow to stay in control. rules so basic..
Bathroom rulesby My Husband.
1) put the seat up don't leave it down.
2) rinse out the sink perfectly
3) be sure and take the hair out of the drain when You take a bath. even if it is full of water! ( the drain needs a chemical to clean it out but H is to cheap to buy it.)He cleaned it all out and it was my hair! :stars:
4)) don't hang You dirty towel on the hook. ( just used once on MY clean body) It is still clean isn't it?
5) be sure and wipe up ALL the drips on the floor.
So, I am going to look at RULER as MY inner Critic. Maybe I can see how many RULES that I follow.... I guess a good name for My inner critic is pharaoh. :yes: :udaman:
I do like to name the Inner critic and inner child,etc. I think It helps for ME to talk to them! When I talk ot them they come out to play! When They come out to play then I found out more about what they are feeling..Then I learn what caused them to be in the first place.. Healing at it's finest!
Keeping on keeping on! ;) :hug:
Quote from: Badmemories on December 02, 2014, 01:12:55 PM
I realized that My inner critic was a set of rules. Rules in My head that I follow to stay in control. rules so basic..
Bathroom rulesby My Husband.
What type of dynamic is at work here? Are you obeying your husband's rules to keep yourself safe from him? Or, do you feel bad about yourself if you break those rules, regardless if he even knows about it?
No mostly to keep Him from Raging. Yesterday he raged all day. I read someone on here say they married their mother.. Well that is certainly me! She had so many cleaning rules also that we had to do. She is also OCD?.
When he did finally sit down I talked to him with the SET method, and he settled right down. :blink: Sometimes I am sure his responses are cPTSD.. but he has not recognized it. He seems to worship his MOM. Then I hear him talk about sexual abuse by older cousins, and he seems fine with it like it is normal! :stars: I have not decided IF it is because he is male and that It is like a conquest to him... or IF he is just so in denial?
His mother is as wonderful MIL. She loves me to death. H had been NC for over 10 years when I found her name and called her. She did not know where he was for that time. He'd been addicted to Crack cocaine and was afraid of "stealing" her things so he left as to NOT hurt her..He was over the drug when I met him, so I did not know about crack cocaine....period of his life. He always says "Mothers can do NO wrong! That seems almost like brainwashing to me. He was also used to His father and step mom going out on each other. His father even had a steady GF that he went to see everyday. His Mom even had the phone # to call his Dad if anything came up! :stars:
Getting back to the subject though... I just realized that I had all these rules in MY head... and I had never thought of them as an Inner critic. So in essence I am following the rules that both My husband and Mother set for me...
Keep on Keeping on! ;) :hug:
Inner critic = assimilation. I've always been keenly interested in the borg (star trek voyager). It is a good metaphor to contemplate how I shifted from hearing my own voice to hearing the COLLECTIVE voice of my family telling me how bad and messed up I supposedly was/am.
Just recently my brother agreed when his partner called me a whack job. It really stung. But oddly, when it was said, I also felt my inner critic/collective nodding its head vehemently in agreement. Therein lies the pattern. I was assimilated into my family dysfunction (and their perception of me) even though it wasn't originally my choice to be any part of it. Now, like 7 of 9, I am trying desperately to separate myself from (or to find my own way out of) this messed up collective.
The inner critic I hear is a collective voice, not just my own. It's an interesting re-frame (recognition). I'll see where it takes me. Thanks for inspiring me to think about this on a deeper level.
Edited to add: I wonder if this is an experience shared by other scapegoats in the family? Very curious about this.
Yes. It is. What about the covert version, like two people collectively saying "I believe in you" while body language and behavior say "I don't think you can do that"...I'm seeing folded arms, a word bubble and an opposite thought bubble...I think I need to learn to trust my perception about the thought bubble. It's based on body language and behavior. This is about meaning, not the packaging...
This is a very thought-provoking thread. Like voicelessagony2, my inner critic (I guess?) isn't words, it's self-loathing feelings but it feels like my dad. Maybe because I'm so terrified of it because it hates me so much. It was actually my mom who hated me, but I was terrified of my dad. My mom was predictably nasty pretty much all the time. My dad was totally unpredictable, so maybe just scarier on the whole. Inconsistent behavior wires our brains more strongly than consistent, they say.
But schrodinger, your theory about needing to make some kind of sense in a way that gave me some kind of control really resonated. Of course I couldn't mind-read. *, as a young kid I couldn't even make any kind of guess as to what two adults might have to scream at each other about. But I learned that somehow, it was my fault, and I learned that because they had no problem blaming me for whatever they were screaming about. I learned that I shouldn't exist, and of course I had to make up some kind of story - some kind of thing that I could control - that explained why that was. I latched onto the one thing that could get a positive response from them with some regularity, and began to believe that I didn't deserve to exist unless I was perfect at that thing....and since it's not possible, I just internalized the loathing and failure. To lonewolf's point - yeah, I assimilated into my part of their dysfunction. The truth is, they were horrible people and it had nothing whatsoever to do with me.
*sigh* It makes a lot of sense, and feels really true. I just wish that the sensemaking could make the horrible feelings go away. :\ Peace to us all and hugs.
Quote from: rtfm on June 09, 2015, 01:48:42 AM
... Maybe because I'm so terrified of it because it hates me so much.
Yeah, exactly... it is like an "it" inside me that hates me and tortures me. "It" sometimes manifests as migraine, and I have never met anyone who could understand that the pain seems to be a sadistic sentient being with a cattle prod poking the pain receptors in my head.
Quote from: rtfm on June 09, 2015, 01:48:42 AM
... I just wish that the sensemaking could make the horrible feelings go away. :\ Peace to us all and hugs.
:hug:
I wonder if you're like me... I love technology and learning, which is probably a direct result of the overactive part of my brain that insists on making sense of everything.
Ironically, I seem to (eventually) be able to make sense of the most challenging technical mysteries, but there is no amount of intellect that can defeat that inner sadist that refuses to communicate in any way but pain.
The last dust up with my NPDM before I went LC with her ended with me yelling "I am not bad. In fact I am a really good person!" And I felt it (that I was a good person), right down to my toes. And that lead me to a BIG thought:
They . were . wrong.
So if they were wrong about me so that meant my ICr was wrong!
I am realising just how much I relate a lot
Of the outside ie people to my inner critic - and self analysis of being a bad person - also how much my hyper vigilance of others to look for clues that they don't like me - add that to my outer critic and wooh its critic red alert
I am finding I am just so wildly sensitive I almost question everything about my existence - radar to see where I'm wrong / I can def see what is meant by cptsd - there is a war going on both inside and outside generated by my head - stressed such a lot of the time
Today I said to myself 'I'm not a bad person ' and the sense of relief was so good
It's quite a place to be seeing this stuff / being able to put it in a framework and to realise it's untruth - so I relate whilst it's not anywhere near schizophrenia it however sure is a mental health problem
Feel a bit fed up today with this 'complex condition ' but still have lots of hope so that is good
Here's to hope and a better day tomorrow Boats :hug:
Thank you Kizzie it's been full on today -
In bed at 19.00 -
I don't always hear it, I've just come to learn that when I feel wrong or panicky it's probably the inner critic talking deep inside.
Boatsetsailrose, I completely understand what you mean about the hyper vigilance when it comes to other people. I get very socially anxious as a result and automatically assume the worst in situations where there is absolutely no danger. Unfortunately I randomly panic in the middle of normal conversations with people and it must be evident that I'm uncomfortable as my face flushes and I start shaking, so then the inner critic kicks in and starts shaming me for looking so weak and weird. The classic one is, "What must the other person think of this over the top response?!" It's very socially painful. It's hard to control too and is far worse when I'm tired, stressed or hungry.
By telling me I'm not good enough and compares me (in its perfectionist state ) to other people's good bits -
Lately I've been connecting in with what the truth is in my spirit and it never is what the critic says -
Ic makes me feel bad and despondent --
Is good to see this all so clearly now and know it is not the truth
'I am competent capable and worthy