Out of the Storm

Does anyone else do that? While you're with people or at work, you're functioning okay, you're competent, friendly, sociable, everything's alright (at least on the surface). Then you get home and collapse. You only jiiust have enough energy left to drag yourself to the sofa. Nothing gets done, there's no energy left for anything else, just for your favourite kind of dissociation.

Or you're functioning well at home, while you're alone. So you become confident: why not dip your toe into this-or-that project, or into a bit more of social contact than you're used to? So you do that. And it's okay, you're functioning, but once you get home... see above.

If several other people besides myself do that, this might mean that it's part of what might happen when you've got CPTSD. Which would be hugely calming, because this thing - whenever it happens - feels so weird.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if we're not over-extending ourselves "in public", keeping up appearances and so on. I had to learn how to keep up appearances so the abuse would stop, and I'd be very surprised if I were the only one. I'm so used to it by now, I'm not even aware that this takes an effort. And then when I'm drained and low on energy, I'm absolutely baffled as to why this is happening - because I'm still not aware of the effort it took to simply seem un-CPTSD-ish.

Do you think this could be it? I'm not sure. Maybe there's more to it.

Anyways, if several of us do this, I think we should get to invent a name for it. Something funny maybe, in the style of "flying monkeys" for the lackeys of a narcissist or "hoovering" for when an abuser tries to make nice. Or maybe something serious is better, that's also possible. Or maybe there already is a name for it, even better.

Then we can write a glossary entry so people who come to this site can read it and go "...phew, not just me then". And maybe someone has some coping strategies?

Well, you've just described the last three years of my life, which is exactly what brought me to this point. People look at me and have no idea that I am barely functioning. Even now...just recently I caught myself thinking..."Well, there's definitely some larger reason that me and bf aren't ready to move in together. Oh, yes, right...I don't want him around on those days when I'm watching Netflix for 10 hours. Hmmm...that's prob not healthy."

I work 40 hours a week. Sometimes, I manage to be social. Until May of this year, I was going to school full time. But, over the last three years I have watched my functioning deteriorate. I can get things done - when I absolutely just can't put them off any more.

Homework? Done absolutely last minute. Never missed an assignment, but started taking more and more online classes because they all followed the same structure and were super easy to cut corners with. (Still managed to write amazing papers pulled out of my a** hours before deadline, lol)

Grocery shopping? Probably not until I run out of dehydrated mashed potatoes. Or, I'm eating way too much fast food because I can't face the idea of the energy that it will take to shop.

Showering? Hmm...how close do I have to be to people today? Am I seeing the boyfriend?

Apartment? Ug. I'm going to try to tackle that today and I'm convinced that the only reason that I haven't resorted to using the paper plates in the cabinet is because occassionally the boyfriend DOES come over, and shame seems to be a motivating factor. Like now, my cousins are coming in from out of town this weekend. Can't let them see it the way that it is.

I don't know what other people's experiences are with this...in terms of figuring out what's behind it. I've been beating my head against this brick wall, as I said, for a while. It's just been in the last few months that I've become absolutely done with it and searching for an answer that fits so that I can just freaking fix it. I'm looking at "collapse" the "demand resistance" the "learned helplessness" now I'm looking at just plain old depression. I tried my hardest to negotiate with myself yesterday to just...do one thing when I got out of the bath, tackle one thing in my apartment. Not happening. I went and laid down instead. Although...thinking about it now, I guess I kind of set myself up for failure, trying to get myself to do something physical like clean straight out of a super hot bath when I'm lethargic and headachey because I stayed in too long.

So, today...try number 3 this week. We'll see how it goes.

To Spryte & S-C:
One way to really get around the social endurance shopping...which I really like...is having an Amazon Prime account.  2 days free shipping comes with the Prime membership, and you can order just about anything through the membership; I also dig the free movies and other perks.  Works great when you're just too fatigued/tired/disinterested with the collapsing issues.  Takes my mind off things a little with the enormous surfing on the site.  I'm far from being a shopaholic though.  I sure hear ya both with the social interaction fatigue 'energy sapping' it takes.  With my current situation, I've basically been alone/isolated for 10 months straight and have a great tomcat for company.  Unfortunately, the isolation has taken a large bite out of my sanity. So, the collapsing with me is a long, drawn out session.  I'm barely coming out of a 4 day long panic attack which was quite nasty; been sleeping and trying to keep sane.  Glad I found these forum boards...you folks are the only one's I'm trying to interact with a bit.

 :aaauuugh:

Another member for the club here.

It's actually one of the things I feel quite ashamed about. I haven't even let my DH in on it. I try to collapse only when I have alone time so no one is the wiser about how little I can 'take on' these days. Still the old reflex to hide my true state of mind, I guess...

I like "social interaction fatigue". It fits.

So, we've got one coping strategy so far: making our "public life" easier. Picking and choosing which social interactions we want, and then maybe finding workarounds for those that are just unnecessarily stressful. Friends yes, shop assistants no. That's a good point.

Pacing ourselves - would that work? Me, I'd have to first find out what precisely stresses me about official situations, and why, and in which quantities. Until I know that, I can't pace myself.

What do you think about assigning some time straight after social interactions where we get to just hang out and drool and have a thousand yard stare? I mean purposely doing it, and planning for it, and trying to slowly find a way that works best and gets us the most relaxed in a short time. It occurred to me today that maybe coming home from a stressful interaction and then planning to straight away launch into - oh, something like doing chores, paying bills, solving problems - that this might make matters worse. If that's true, even an hour spent just fuzzing around on the internet or playing a game might actually end up saving me time. At least that way I have some hope of being re-energized again later.

Also, I could tease my brother with it. He used to tease me relentlessly when we were kids, so I get to catch up now. And he HATES anything that's touchy-feely or psychobabble or hippie. Hates hates hates it. So we'd chat, and then I'd go: "I sense that I must now leave and meditate so I can centre myself and really feel my own essence again." It'd be worth it just for the expression on his face. Hah.

The funny thing is, that actually is what I'll probably have to do: meditate or just sit still so I can calm down and feel my own essence again.

Does anyone do that already? Assign some quiet private time where you just let yourself calm down?

UG - do you do grocery shopping through Amazon? I already buy a ridiculous amount of stuff through Amazon, probably started doing that because I couldn't take the idea of going to multiple stores to "price shop". It's always the grocery shopping that trips me up though. Also, I'm really glad you found us too! (although, I'm relatively new here too)

SC - I haven't quite detangled all of this so I'm not sure that an across the board "fix" is going to be the answer for me. I have noticed a definite "energy drain" with a lot of this stuff, MOST ESPECIALLY social interactions.

You know, for the last year, I was convinced that I had Adrenal Fatigue - which is a whole can of worms in and of itself and I think goes "nicely" with c-ptsd. It makes a whole lot of sense that one of the things we'd struggle with is adrenal glands that are stressed and tired. One of the features of that IS this "collapse" thing, and one of the things that many AF sufferers end up doing to manage it is severe "energy management" tactics.

Like, for instance for me, social engagements are one of the things that I have to be the most careful with. It's one thing to go to the movies with someone, or to hang out watching TV, or DOING something together, but if I'm expected to hang out one on one, just talking? There will come a point where my brain just...shuts down. It's like...I've used up all the fuel in my brain and I just...I've had to seriously tell people...I'm sorry, I have to go home now, my brain has shut down. It gets hard to put together sentences, let alone pay attention to what other people are saying. And I'm almost certain that this doesn't have anything to do with EF's, it's just really a matter of cognitive energy.

I one time went and spent a whole day with some very good friends during a crises that they were going through. It was emotional, and cognitively draining. At one point, I felt myself shutting down and I told my friends that I was going to "unplug" for a little while and mindlessly look at facebook. It worked. I felt a little "refreshed" after like 10 minutes of not being SO socially plugged in one on one. (also had an opportunity to hold a boundary too because it took my one friend a little while to get that I was seriously just...tapping out for a little while and Don't Talk To Me.)

With other stuff, it's different. I did notice that one of my problems was that I was coming home and just...automatically and mindlessly turning the TV on. Once I did that, it was over. I get obsessively stuck in watching series of things, I can't stop. Netflix might have been the worst invention ever for me.

So, I made a deal with myself, that I haven't quite stuck with just yet...to come home, walk the dog, and sit down on the couch and meditate and intentionally DECIDE what I wanted to do with my evening.

My issue is one of inertia. If I come home and launch straight into doing chores, I'm better. I can get things done. If I sit down for even a minute...I'm done. Doesn't matter how motivated I thought I was to do things, it's like all that motivation and energy drain out through my feet and next thing I know I'm curled up on my couch watching TV. That was just to relax, or veg out. I don't know if I'll have the same reaction with meditation.

I think a big part of my problem with all of that is being overwhelmed by stuff. Overwhelmed by my choices about what I could do, what I have to do. Do I practice piano, make jewelry, read a book, clean the kitchen, clean the bathroom, vacuum the couch, clean off the table, make crafty stuff....this list could go on for days and it's somehow like my brain just...seizes, thinking that it needs to Do All The Things.

And, if I have lots of "official" things to do? Errands to run, professional people I have to talk to, paperwork to submit...anything like that...I can rally myself to do it all in one shot...and then I am absolutely done for the day. Or, there at LEAST needs to be a nap in there to "reboot" my brain.

KF - I'm ashamed of it too. I've had a really hard time inviting the boyfriend around when I'm in collapse mode. It's a lot easier to hide from everyone else in my life.

I kind of know what you mean, I think. It's similar for me, too. One-on-one talks are just so intense, it's like being in the spotlight for a long time, with no opportunity to just switch off and relax a little. Why? Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe it's a Fawn Response thing? An over-focus on being easy to get along with? I don't even know. It would fit - my mother has always given me the message that I'm difficult. So maybe that's why such talks feel so hard to do?

As you can see, I'm feeling antsy as long as I don't see through a problem. I'm often tempted to skip right to the problem-solving stage. It's better to first let myself really feel the problem first, I'm trying to learn that, but it's surprisingly hard. Fact-finding, then analysis, then solutions, not the other way round.

Sooo, the problem... it's like I'm feeling obliged to present a certain image to the world. Not "encouraged to", or "aiming to", but literally obliged. It's a duty. I must seem competent at all times, I must be cheerful and open, I must help other people with their problems, I must listen attentively. I must never give away anything about myself. That's what I learned, partly by how my FOO treated me, partly by what they modelled.

So anything other than an optimal performance feels stressful. If I tell someone that I'm battling a depression, I later feel they're going to reject me now because I've got problems and am not invincible. If I'm a little slow and serious because I'm tired or something, I'm sure everyone will reject met. If I begin to be bored by a topic of conversation, I feel absolutely trapped and powerless, because how can you change the topic without making the other person very angry at you? If I disagree with what someone's saying, I swallow it and bottle it up, because disagreement needs to be oh so delicately put, or you'll offend the other person and they'll not forgive you for years.

This says more about my FOO than it says about what people are really like. Dh for example is an easygoing guy who prefers a direct and blunt style of conversation. But I still fall back into tip-toeing around his sensibilities. With people in general... I want to be more open and authentic, but how can I be that without opening myself to being triggered? It's like I can be either safe or authentic.

You know, sometimes it seems like half my problems in this life can be solved by either decluttering or being properly angry at my FOO.

Ok, so just focusing on the social aspect of this...yes, that's exactly the problem that I have most of the time.

And, it's interesting the things that we get "taught" about how we should act in public. I'm not even sure if it was my FOO or some other traumatic event in my life which taught me the "rules" about being social...but if I am hypervigilant anywhere, it is in social situations...it's actually one of my greatest gifts and my biggest weaknesses. I am hyper-focused on other people's reactions to me...but that has grown into a gift for really knowing people, and becoming really sensitive to micro-expressions, body language, tone of voice...I am REALLY tuned into people...but at the same time, I am being hyper focused on all of that stuff within me too...the words I use, the way I phrase something, the emotions that I'm showing, it's absolutely exhausting.

And for me, I'm not so sure that it's about specific things that I was taught...Like it was for you, so much as it is just a general..."Be likable! Don't act "weird"! Don't do anything that may cause rejection! Don't show your real self because your real self is awful and people will run away and abandon you!!" kind of thing.

Putting all that attention on all of those things is MENTALLY EXHAUSTING.

So, naturally, those people who I feel the most comfortable hanging out with, are the people I feel most comfortable being myself with because I'm not "entertaining" anyone. There is very little...I don't know "energy" is the best word I've got, expended in being social with them.

That being said...even THOSE people, I am still working on being comfortable being..."moody" or "tired" or "not as engaged". And, in the last few months I've had the disturbing realization that I walk around...all the time...with a (to me) creepy smile on my face. Like. All the time. Even when I'm alone, I realize I'm doing it. It's just..become an automatic part of my social mask I guess. So, I'm trying to be more mindful of that.

I think it's definitely a Fawn response thing. Even without the specifics. "Please don't hurt me! Let me be as likeable as possible so that you won't hurt me! Let me go out of my way to not upset you, or disagree with you, or express my own opinion, so you won't hurt me!"

I'm just now getting to the point where I can SOMETIMES express an opinion in conversation with people without freaking out about it afterwards. That was something that grew along that "process of change" continuum that we talked about.

QuoteDh for example is an easygoing guy who prefers a direct and blunt style of conversation. But I still fall back into tip-toeing around his sensibilities.

There's a phrase that I come back to a lot when it comes to the Fawning/Co-dependent behaviors. "Managing other people's feelings"

We do it a lot, and it's a protection mechanism. "Let me see if I can predict how you are going to feel, so that I can alter my behavior accordingly, and "manage" your reaction to this so that it won't be harmful to you" And that's the thing about a lot of co-dependent behaviors, we convince ourselves that a lot of what we do is for other people..."I don't want to hurt their feelings. I don't want to upset them." When, really it's..."I don't want to put myself in a vulnerable position where them getting upset with me, or about something that I say may result in them lashing out, or rejecting me."

QuoteIt's like I can be either safe or authentic.

Yes, exactly.

So...that's about some pretty warped filters that we have about how other people are going to react to us, and trust.

And, I'm not sure where other people should start with that. For whatever reason, I became really socially isolated. Call it introversion, call it self-protection, whatever. I find that I just do not have the energy for bull-sh*t non-authentic interactions and if other people can't be authentic with ME, then I have a much harder time being able to trust them enough to be authentic with THEM.

So, the few people that I have surrounded myself with...are people who act just as real as I try to be with them. We're all kind of socially awkward though, and we're all kind of "checking in with each other" and apologizing for acting certain ways, and we just reassure each other, that it's fine.

And still...for as long as we've been together, me and my boyfriend are still building the trust necessary for us to allow the other to see us "at our worst". It's not easy. That fear of rejection and abandonment is HUGE.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PM
... if I am hypervigilant anywhere, it is in social situations...that has grown into a gift for really knowing people, and becoming really sensitive to micro-expressions, body language, tone of voice...I am REALLY tuned into people...but at the same time, I am being hyper focused on all of that stuff within me too...the words I use, the way I phrase something, the emotions that I'm showing, it's absolutely exhausting.

That word - hypervigilance - it's interesting that you're using it here. Do you think this could be something like that? Social hypervigilance? It would make sense, wouldn't it? I mean, we all pay extra attention to the very area where we were hurt. And because we were emotionally abused, we're now hypervigilant in social situations. I'm not sure if that's the explanation, but at least it sounds plausible.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PMAnd for me, I'm not so sure that it's about specific things that I was taught...Like it was for you, so much as it is just a general..."Be likable! Don't act "weird"! Don't do anything that may cause rejection! Don't show your real self because your real self is awful and people will run away and abandon you!!" kind of thing.

Putting all that attention on all of those things is MENTALLY EXHAUSTING.

Absolutely. It's like putting on a show all the time.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PMSo, naturally, those people who I feel the most comfortable hanging out with, are the people I feel most comfortable being myself with because I'm not "entertaining" anyone. There is very little...I don't know "energy" is the best word I've got, expended in being social with them.

I know what you mean. It's SUCH a relief, finding someone like that, isn't it? Like everyone else is a hard uncomfortable chair with creaky legs, and finally you meet a person who's like a sofa.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PMThat being said...even THOSE people, I am still working on being comfortable being..."moody" or "tired" or "not as engaged".

Same here. Being boring, being not-hard-working, or letting someone know that I'm struggling with a problem I don't yet have any answer for... it feels like letting them see my soft underbelly. Setting myself up to fail.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PMAnd, in the last few months I've had the disturbing realization that I walk around...all the time...with a (to me) creepy smile on my face. Like. All the time. Even when I'm alone, I realize I'm doing it. It's just..become an automatic part of my social mask I guess.

I shouldn't find this funny, probably...

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PMI think it's definitely a Fawn response thing. Even without the specifics. "Please don't hurt me! Let me be as likeable as possible so that you won't hurt me! Let me go out of my way to not upset you, or disagree with you, or express my own opinion, so you won't hurt me!"

Yes, it's about presenting as small a target as one can.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PM"Managing other people's feelings" ... We do it a lot, and it's a protection mechanism.

"Let me see if I can predict how you are going to feel, so that I can alter my behavior accordingly, and "manage" your reaction to this... I don't want to put myself in a vulnerable position where them getting upset with me, or about something that I say may result in them lashing out, or rejecting me."

Ah. Ah ha. Thanks for pointing that out, that's a VERY useful concept to know. I do that all the time. Someone's sad, I listen. Someone's in need of cheering up, I try to be funny. A conversation comes to a grinding halt, I get it going again. I'm always acting like I'm a waitress in the great big café that's life. Or, I used to always act like that.

Quote from: spryte on October 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PMSo...that's about some pretty warped filters that we have about how other people are going to react to us, and trust.

"WHAT?! I told you that I don't really like the brand of herbal tea that you prefer... and... and... and you don't mind?!"

So, to sum it up...
Emotional abuse / bullying / etc -----> social situations are "not safe" -----> simple common sense and a healthy self-preservation instinct make us become hyper-aware of warning signs, hidden dangers, emotional risks etc ------> if repeated enough times and without enough positive experiences to offset that: social hypervigilance sets in. At the same time, we begin to circumvent dangers and manage other people's emotions in order to minimize our risks. Over time, this becomes second nature. We're not even aware that we're doing it, and that it takes an effort. For that reason, we're often drastically drained by social situations that require a great deal of circumnavigation and micro-management.
The great unifying theory of spryte's and cat's social woes. I couldn't resiiist. Sorry.

Lol, yes! Very succinct!

And it's ok that you found that funny. I joke about it to my boyfriend now. It reminds me of a scene in "Warm Bodies" I don't know if you've seen it. A zombie who's trying to act human and his inner monologue is going, "Don't be creepy. Don't be creepy!" I kind of feel like I"m doing that all the time. "Pretend to be normal! Pretend to be normal!"

Hyper vigilance was the only word that sounded right to me to describe that. Because, what it feels like is that when it comes to interpersonal relationships, my brain goes into super computer mode in order to analyze every single nuance of the interaction. It was a real head slap kind of moment when I realized how MUCH I do that, and connected it to how tired social interactions make me.

But, like I said, it's one of the few things that I've actually been able to turn around and see as a "gift" from my childhood. It really helps me help other people because often I can tell how they're feeling even before they can...as long as I don't try to "manage" those feelings, or try to point out something that someone else really isn't comfortable with me seeing. Which has happened. Apparently, not every one likes it when you peer into their soul. Lol.

And that analyzing started really really young

Quoteit's about presenting as small a target as one can.

Indeed.

So, the other day, I was thinking about the fact that I want to get some tattoos, and I have a facial piercing, and I was wondering what an appropriate amount of time would be to be at my new job before opening that can of worms...and I had this really uncomfortable memory of how often I used to have to "analyze" my mothers moods before I approached her about anything.  ???

Was your mother as unpredictable as mine was?

Mine had a really short temper, especially when I was a teenager (because at that time her heatlh began to break down), and she has this habit where, if she's annoyed or feels overwhelmed or like she's losing control of a situation, she simply pulls backs into Medium Chill instead of working through it together with the other person. You never knew when something as simple as spilling a glass of milk might trigger a rant. On top of that, she treated me the same way she treated those of her younger sisters whom she regards as "difficult" and "demanding". Just normal, ordinary teenage moodiness might trigger that, and she'd withdraw or distance herself from me.

So there was no simple, obvious way of navigating social situations in my FOO. Hence the hypervigilance? Hmmm.

Unpredictable yes. I don't have enough clear memories to be able to really break it down the way that you are able to, but there was hitting and lots and lots of screaming rages with awful things said which I won't repeat here. She'd come home from work and take a nap. I'd tiptoe around the house so as to not wake her up. If she was asleep, she couldn't be screaming. Any little thing could set her off. The "big blow out" that happened that resulted in me moving to another state to live with my father the next day was over under done chicken nuggets that I'd cooked for dinner. (I was 15). If I wanted to do something, like go to a friend's house, I'd have to predict when she was in the best mood and become nearly invisible so as to not set her off, until it was time to ask - and then again until it was time to go so as to not make her angry so she'd change her mind about me going.

She was always extra super nice and happy when she had a boyfriend though. Those were sort of peaceful times...until, inevitability things didn't work out and she was back to being Momster again....probably worse than before.

No wonder you're hypervigilant. Holy sh*t. I read somewhere (years ago) that several "symptoms of trauma" start out as normal, healthy and common-sense reactions to a highly abnormal situation. Reading stories like this one really rams the point home. Are you safe from her now?

Learning about these responses to trauma, it's been really interesting to me in that very detached....hmmm yes, fascinating! (said in my best Sherlock Holmes accent) kind of way. In my brain, it seems very formula like. There aren't a huge range of responses to these abuses and those four F's seem to sum them up nicely. If you do X to a child over and over, Y,Z, A or B is likely to be the response. It's really no surprise that I became a Fawn/Freezer.

Yes. I'm completely NC. She tries to contact me every now and then. I used to respond, that never ended well, so now my rule with her is "complete non-engagement".

So much of this thread hits home for me. Thanks for the detailed direction as always from the team! :) excellent summation of the situation.

Spilled milk - to this day the phrase don't cry over spilled milk sends me reeling. How else would one respond to beatings because I once again flinched at the wrong time too close to my milk, thereby spilling it and provoked the beating I tried to avert by flinching. Unpredictable. Seriously unpredictable. To this day I have no idea which version of mum might show up or what she might morph into, she's gone from having a good time and laughing to a full on PA episode for no obvious reason.

Yes, I pick and choose my social interaction because it's draining and plan for unwind time by reading at the beginning and end of my day. Amazon shopper! Yes. For food, yes. Netflix, yes - see my other post on curling up with a blanket and self soothing an EF. Shopping in general huge issue, the crowds, navigating, so when I run out of food I go early when the store opens and no one there yet with nothing but my wallet and car key in my pocket so I'm free of clunky purse. List arranged in store aisle order so I can get in and out as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Quote from: ButterflyTo this day I have no idea which version of mum might show up or what she might morph into, she's gone from having a good time and laughing to a full on PA episode for no obvious reason.

Exactly. It was like I had two mothers, a nice one and one that flew off her handle at the least pretext. Jekyll and Hyde. No wonder we began to simply be wary at all times with everybody. I'm still looking at people like their kindness might just be a thin veneer over a rejecting and abusive side.

I can fully identify with this one. I can function well 'keep it together' most of the time in public, though I have had the odd panic attack. I can cope with an encounter but once in private I fall apart for days. I stop eating and that is really bad and when I discovered I was dealing with another 'Bully' I shut down completely for four days and did not answer the phone and gave up on life. It took a lot of effort to finally ring for medical assistance.

The feeling sick each morning as I go through the ritual of getting up and the closer I get to going out the worse it is.

Yikes, that sounds bad. I'm glad to hear that you did ring for help after all. That in itself took a lot of trust, I'd guess. After all, those of us who've been emotionally abused have probably all had our weaknesses and vulnerabilities cast in our teeth. Are you better now? How are you doing?

It's validating to hear how many of us feel like I do - that the social and "official" spheres are full of minefields, and that it takes a great effort to navigate them successfully. That's not what life is really like, but it's what we learned. Before this thread, I wondered why I often found the very idea of socializing off-putting, like it's a chore. I like people! I love people! But socializing? URRRRGH. Now I think I've got a good idea of where this comes from.

So the problem is, we don't feel safe in social / official situations. I'm starting a new thread on how to do that. Maybe someone's got an idea or has things they tried out, or can share a bit about their journey. (EDITED TO ADD: we already have the thread on building trust, I think that's probably the best place for such a discussion.)

Yes I do remember my childhood and have linked many things right back to then. It was traumatic, I did not get to much bullying that I can recall though I was emotionally abused. I have though been abused by many people whom I should have expected trust.

I would say it's main impact is my fear of close intimacy. As a man this is may seem common but not quite. I am a man that actually wants to talk and write about feelings, but I am useless at the dating ritual. I cannot do the small talk and games, My bullies have tended to be female not male, and that may be part of the Anxiety Disorder. Oddly I can speak in public though.

I sound a mess, but that is trauma, my cognitive reasoning has got be by. Thankfully I do not explode externally, but blame myself if I even slightly might upset someone. 

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on October 13, 2014, 12:55:07 PM
Yikes, that sounds bad. I'm glad to hear that you did ring for help after all. That in itself took a lot of trust, I'd guess. After all, those of us who've been emotionally abused have probably all had our weaknesses and vulnerabilities cast in our teeth. Are you better now? How are you doing?

I am still bumping along, I feel very isolated in West Sussex but I keep going.

It's validating to hear how many of us feel like I do - that the social and "official" spheres are full of minefields, and that it takes a great effort to navigate them successfully. That's not what life is really like, but it's what we learned. Before this thread, I wondered why I often found the very idea of socializing off-putting, like it's a chore. I like people! I love people! But socializing? URRRRGH. Now I think I've got a good idea of where this comes from.

I tend to agree, I find the contradictions difficult. I recently got interested in the philosophy of lying and a man called Immanual Kant, who says must never lie as it is a little death vs the Utilatarians that say you can. I find I agree with Kant, and that is contrary to the modern world.

So much of what has been described in this thread mirrors my experiences. I'm sure to acquaintances I seem fine, but at home, alone, after being in public, I collapse. Being in public is like running a race. The finish line is the door to my house, and when I enter, I can finally stop running. I am not a person who would ever just stop running while on the course, no matter how tired, or sore I might be.

I have been aware of this for some time, and do try to be more aware of my energy level. If I'm feeling tired I try to say no to social obligations, though they are already so few, that I feel guilty doing so, though I know I shouldn't. I also try to expect down time. For instance the day after a social evening my to do list should consist of sitting on the couch, and having reheated meals. When I do this, I do bounce back faster, but sometimes "puritanical" guilt gets in the way. As in feeling that I have no right to be tired, and I should do laundry or clean or something. That only results in me mentally kicking myself as  I sit on the couch. Even though in both scenarios I sit on the couch, in the guilt ridden one I do not end up feeling refreshed. So, in my experience, giving yourself permission to have recovery time is important.

I can relate to that. If I limit my social interactions or allow for downtime afterwards, I'm always feeling like a wuss. But you're right, bee: the choice is only between downtime and downtime-plus-guilt-trips.

Sorry this is SO long. identified with SO much of it. Also I am behind because I was back paddling last week! :stars:

schrödinger's cat Functioning "in public", collapsing in private
October 09, 2014, 10:08:15 AM

Does anyone else do that? While you're with people or at work, you're functioning okay, you're competent, friendly, sociable, everything's alright (at least on the surface). Then you get home and collapse. You only just have enough energy left to drag yourself to the sofa. Nothing gets done, there's no energy left for anything else, just for your favorite kind of dissociation.




I am exactly like that!  :yeahthat:


Posted by: spryte
October 10, 2014, 03:45:32 PM
But, like I said, it's one of the few things that I've actually been able to turn around and see as a "gift" from my childhood. It really helps me help other people because often I can tell how they're feeling even before they can...as long as I don't try to "manage" those feelings, or try to point out something that someone else really isn't comfortable with me seeing. Which has happened. Apparently, not every one likes it when you peer into their soul. Lol. 

During Marriage counseling the pastor told me I was a very intuitive Towards people's feelings...I was shocked when he said that it seemed so normal to me.  :applause:

Like, for instance for me, social engagements are one of the things that I have to be the most careful with. It's one thing to go to the movies with someone, or to hang out watching TV, or DOING something together, but if I'm expected to hang out one on one, just talking? There will come a point where my brain just...shuts down. It's like...I've used up all the fuel in my brain and I just...I've had to seriously tell people...I'm sorry, I have to go home now, my brain has shut down. It gets hard to put together sentences, let alone pay attention to what other people are saying. And I'm almost certain that this doesn't have anything to do with EF's, it's just really a matter of cognitive energy. 

I have a neighbor now through middle of Nov. He has been quit generous with me and paying me for things he needs done. I have decided however that his serious drinking has caused flashbacks both with marriages I had with drunks and FOO. I think that is what caused me to back paddle. (notice the choice of words here, not backslide because that is bad back paddle puts it in a more possitive light! ;D ) He sits at the apartment and likes to drink.. I ha been setting limits on him. He does not seem to like to drink alone. ( not that I am drinking, and he found out that I can find almost ANY song he wants to here on you tube.) At first he was staying and drinking until 3:00AM  :stars: :stars: I am so new at setting limits..but I have been trying!

I think a big part of my problem with all of that is being overwhelmed by stuff. Overwhelmed by my choices about what I could do, what I have to do. Do I practice piano, make jewelry, read a book, clean the kitchen, clean the bathroom, vacuum the couch, clean off the table, make crafty stuff....this list could go on for days and it's somehow like my brain just...seizes, thinking that it needs to Do All The Things.

my ADD does not help me with that! I have been trying to just get up and do one thing! I think It was mentioned on the board here somewhere, to work for 25 minutes, and rest for 5,that works for me but I seem to rest for 25! ;D ;D. I also bribe Myself with playing a game on FB. If I work for 25 then I can play a game or 2!

Posted by: spryte
October 09, 2014, 10:45:56 AM

Grocery shopping? Probably not until I run out of dehydrated mashed potatoes. Or, I'm eating way too much fast food because I can't face the idea of the energy that it will take to shop. 

I am really working on getting out more! I did do quit well when My Son planned the football game (college, big town, lots of people) and the baseball game (same) and riding on the tram! (same thing) and eating out in public. I was so exhausted for 4 days afterwards! All I did was sleep!

I usually buy groceries in MY home town. That helps. Sure I pay a little more, but by going 35 miles to a bigger town and going to the Walmart, that stresses me out a lot! The grocery store is limited and really that makes it easier! Some of the more fancy stuff I can not get, but I try and keep them stocked. When I lived in the cities, then I would wait until late at night and go when the store was almost empty! ;D ;D


Showering? Hmm...how close do I have to be to people today? Am I seeing the boyfriend? 

I have wanted to bring this TOPIC but kind of shy about it. I don't know why but showering and getting cleaned up is Hard for me. I try and bribe myself, I tell Myself how good I'll feel...but in less I have to go out in public then I don't  do it as much as I should. :'( I sometimes wonder about the person I used to be that showered in the morning and bathed at night! where did she go?)

I tried my hardest to negotiate with myself yesterday to just...do one thing when I got out of the bath, tackle one thing in my apartment. Not happening. I went and laid down instead

I spent 4 months like that earlier this year! Every day I'd wake-up think about MY list, lay down and go back to sleep! I watched TV for about 4 hours a day, and slept for the rest!



Unconcious_Ghost
October 09, 2014, 10:04:25 PM
Takes my mind off things a little with the enormous surfing on the site.  I'm far from being a shopaholic though.  I sure hear ya both with the social interaction fatigue 'energy sapping' it takes. With my current situation, I've basically been alone/isolated for 10 months straight and have a great tomcat for company.  Unfortunately, the isolation has taken a large bite out of my sanity. So, the collapsing with me is a long, drawn out session.  I'm barely coming out of a 4 day long panic attack which was quite nasty; been sleeping and trying to keep sane. Glad I found these forum boards...you folks are the only one's I'm trying to interact with a bit.

I surf on the Web a lot to! Sometimes MY choices are NOT so good. I was studying abuse week before last... that put me in the freezer!  :aaauuugh: Last night I was studying psycos...Interesting..

And the forum boards are a life saver for me. I feel a sense of obligation to read, and post, and that does help me to remain working on Myself!  I do like playing with the posting toys too... as You all can tell! ;D


schrödinger's cat
October 10, 2014, 06:41:45 AM
As you can see, I'm feeling antsy as long as I don't see through a problem. I'm often tempted to skip right to the problem-solving stage. It's better to first let myself really feel the problem first, I'm trying to learn that, but it's surprisingly hard. Fact-finding, then analysis, then solutions, not the other way round. 

I am so new at this I am just trying to figure out what My triggers are.. and then like this last one, It toke me a week to figure out that I was getting more depressed, and then to figure out Why, and then to figure out what I need to do!

So anything other than an optimal performance feels stressful. If I tell someone that I'm battling a depression, I later feel they're going to reject me now because I've got problems and am not invincible. If I'm a little slow and serious because I'm tired or something, I'm sure everyone will reject met. If I begin to be bored by a topic of conversation, I feel absolutely trapped and powerless, because how can you change the topic without making the other person very angry at you? If I disagree with what someone's saying, I swallow it and bottle it up, because disagreement needs to be oh so delicately put, or you'll offend the other person and they'll not forgive you for years. 

Especially at work... I told a few people and it was like I was the pariah, like it was contagious or something!

spryte
October 10, 2014, 07:28:54 AM

And for me, I'm not so sure that it's about specific things that I was taught...Like it was for you, so much as it is just a general..."Be likable! Don't act "weird"! Don't do anything that may cause rejection! Don't show your real self because your real self is awful and people will run away and abandon you!!" kind of thing.

Putting all that attention on all of those things is MENTALLY EXHAUSTING.

So, naturally, those people who I feel the most comfortable hanging out with, are the people I feel most comfortable being myself with because I'm not "entertaining" anyone. There is very little...I don't know "energy" is the best word I've got, expended in being social with them. 

I think the years of bullying at school Caused me to feel this way!

Right now the only person that i feel comfortable to talk to Is my daughter! She listens to me rant and rave, and comments. That helps me not feel so crazy! It sure is exhausting monitoring Your words, and wondering what reaction You are going to get!

So, to sum it up...
Emotional abuse / bullying / etc -----> social situations are "not safe" -----> simple common sense and a healthy self-preservation instinct make us become hyper-aware of warning signs, hidden dangers, emotional risks etc ------> if repeated enough times and without enough positive experiences to offset that: social hypervigilance sets in. At the same time, we begin to circumvent dangers and manage other people's emotions in order to minimize our risks. Over time, this becomes second nature. We're not even aware that we're doing it, and that it takes an effort. For that reason, we're often drastically drained by social situations that require a great deal of circumnavigation and micro-management.
The great unifying theory of spryte's and cat's social woes. I couldn't resiiist. Sorry. 

spryte
October 11, 2014, 05:01:43 AM
Unpredictable yes. I don't have enough clear memories to be able to really break it down the way that you are able to, but there was hitting and lots and lots of screaming rages with awful things said which I won't repeat here. She'd come home from work and take a nap. I'd tiptoe around the house so as to not wake her up. If she was asleep, she couldn't be screaming. Any little thing could set her off. The "big blow out" that happened that resulted in me moving to another state to live with my father the next day was over under done chicken nuggets that I'd cooked for dinner. (I was 15). If I wanted to do something, like go to a friend's house, I'd have to predict when she was in the best mood and become nearly invisible so as to not set her off, until it was time to ask - and then again until it was time to go so as to not make her angry so she'd change her mind about me going.

Were You in My home Sprite? Exactly what I lived through! I am just now waking up to the fact that things like this were abusive!

Butterfly
October 12, 2014, 05:58:12 PM

Spilled milk - to this day the phrase don't cry over spilled milk sends me reeling. How else would one respond to beatings because I once again flinched at the wrong time too close to my milk, thereby spilling it and provoked the beating I tried to avert by flinching. Unpredictable. Seriously unpredictable. To this day I have no idea which version of mum might show up or what she might morph into, she's gone from having a good time and laughing to a full on PA episode for no obvious reason. 

Taking care of the GD's had me thinking about that... You see My first response was to COPY My Mothers example... and Yell at the kids for spilling their milk..Now I calmly say " it's OK everyone has accidents, it is better to put the milk further away from the edge." When I notice the milk is to close to the edge I remind them! I think that I also yelled at My kids, because Daughter also yells! I think that was one of the FLEAS I passed on to her. :doh: Hopefully she will see My new example, and maybe I need to apologize to D when I get time, to make her aware of both MY wrong response to her, and her wrong response to her kids!

I still flinch! Flinching is so unpredictable that I don't know when, or where it is going to happen...

Quote from: bee on October 16, 2014, 04:49:06 AM
So much of what has been described in this thread mirrors my experiences. I'm sure to acquaintances I seem fine, but at home, alone, after being in public, I collapse. Being in public is like running a race. The finish line is the door to my house, and when I enter, I can finally stop running. I am not a person who would ever just stop running while on the course, no matter how tired, or sore I might be.

I have been aware of this for some time, and do try to be more aware of my energy level. If I'm feeling tired I try to say no to social obligations, though they are already so few, that I feel guilty doing so, though I know I shouldn't. I also try to expect down time. For instance the day after a social evening my to do list should consist of sitting on the couch, and having reheated meals. When I do this, I do bounce back faster, but sometimes "puritanical" guilt gets in the way. As in feeling that I have no right to be tired, and I should do laundry or clean or something. That only results in me mentally kicking myself as  I sit on the couch. Even though in both scenarios I sit on the couch, in the guilt ridden one I do not end up feeling refreshed. So, in my experience, giving yourself permission to have recovery time is important.

I know what you mean about relating to a lot in this thread BadMemories, I could have written Bee's post!  Wow, just wow. 

Those of us with CPTSD expend an enormous amount of energy "holding it together" in public.  Which leads me to ask myself, "What is "it" for for me exactly?" and it always comes back to my IC.

As an adult I must daily do things that my IC feels so ill-equipped to deal with, so holding "it" together is not letting her respond outwardly to what often feels like a big scary world, and keeping others from knowing she is very often "steering the bus" as GT put it once.   I too feel like I'm holding my breath, waiting to cross the finish line at my front door  - great way of putting it Bee.   

The way I view recovery now is that as my IC integrates more and more, I will not need to be as vigilant or to expend as much energy hiding her away, not letting others see her and keeping her from reacting to situations as a child does.  She will be much more a part of me and the totality of my self - hard to find the words for this but that's about as close as I can get.   

Kizzie - I really do think that's a lot of it. I haven't really spent as much time thinking about it, but I do know that for ages now this whole "being and adult" thing has just felt like an absolute farce to me. It's weird for me though because my adult side IS pretty competent. She can "do" the whole adult thing without anyone really being the wiser that...Ok, so anyone seen Men In Black? There was that one alien in one of them where like, the little guy was inside the big guy, steering him? That's totally what it feels like a lot of times...that my terrified little kid is inside, steering the adult. And I guess I just walk around amazed that no one ever notices...like, "What's wrong with you people?? Can't you see what an absolute fraud I am?"

And now that I have started doing some inner kid work, I kind of get it now. I'm starting to actually separate the two and see that I am an adult, and that in many ways I am capable and take comfort in that. But that there are still all these ways that my inner kid needs to be taken care of. It's all really convoluted, lol. It's hard feeling so fractured.

Bad Memories - the hygiene thing. I get it. It's hard to talk about. To be honest, I've been absolutely terrible about it. I don't take care of myself nearly the way that I should, and it's a big source of shame for me. It's one of the things that I've been looking at and for me, I think it's a couple of things...one of them is the demand resistance thing. You'd be surprised how people seem to think that they have any right to determine how often you shower, or to comment when you don't. Even when you don't need to. Both my father and one of my exes had this notion that you had to shower every. single. day. And that if you didn't, you were gross and disgusting. I don't like showering every day, I never have. So, part of it I think is kind of a rebellion against that.

The other part, the larger part, which has always been true for me I think, is this complete abandonment of my body that I've got going on. I'm going to write about that in a different post - but lets just say that my body has been in an emotionally abusive/neglectful relationship with my mind for as long as I can remember, and the ways that I take care of it/don't take care of it, definitely reflect that. It's something that I'm starting to work on with this new Body Project thing that I'm starting and I'll post about that later.

+1 to this for me, until I couldn't even do the office-functioning any more. i get it, 100%. It's amazing the show we can put on for others while we're barely holding on. Also, I think this is reflective of how we're not used to meeting our own needs...

OMG yes...

In fact, I have noticed this pattern of working REALLY hard at keeping my * together, I push myself to be the BESTEST of the best at what I'm doing, so when the contract is over I am exhausted and I also fall apart because I see it as a failure... if I really was the bestest of the best they would have kept me working. :( So the only other option is that I'm delusional about my skills, and a fraud, and they figured it out.

So I see this pattern now, and after my last job ended I purposely avoided going back to work. It's been nearly a year now, but I am determined not to put myself back on that merry-go-round. I am here in OOTS looking for answers to gain some balance.

 voicelessagony2 wrote
November 24, 2014, 04:59:12 PM

In fact, I have noticed this pattern of working REALLY hard at keeping my s*** together, I push myself to be the BESTEST of the best at what I'm doing, so when the contract is over I am exhausted and I also fall apart because I see it as a failure... if I really was the bestest of the best they would have kept me working. :( So the only other option is that I'm delusional about my skills, and a fraud, and they figured it out.

No Voicless, That is NOT true. That is what YOU inner critic is saying! The truth is that YOU were/are so stressed about something with your cpstd that You have to have down time! I was bullied as a child and I still think that no matter how GOOD we try and keep it together that we still don't seem normal to others. I mean I have been a victim so long that predators sense that and play upon our hurts.  If the predator can sense that then others can to. :yes:  As a victim I can not sense predators because I was TRAINED to be a good girl and listen to what others say, do it, and believe it. I do not feel that I have a sense of judgement abut others because WE were not taught to listen to the "red flags".  One thing I have noticed about NPDH is that he has a better sense of "BAD" people than I do! I guess it is because of his predatory nature that he knows He can not play them!
Keep on Keepin on!  ;)

Badmemories,
Thanks... I know that's probably not true, that I'm delusional etc., and I know on some level that my inner critic is stomping the life out of me, but it's been in control for so long that I can't fight it even when I know what it's doing! So many layers of crazy...  :doh:

Also I have consistently failed to protect myself against predators. Nearly every relationship I have ever been in has been with either a predator or an abuser. They sense my weakness like a shark smells blood, instantly. So, yeah, I've always known that there must be SOMETHING, a vibe that I give off, that scares people or repels them in some way. There is no other explanation.

Have you heard of this "repetition compulsion" thing? I read about it in this book (http://www.amazon.de/Reinventing-Your-Life-Breakthough-FeelGreat/dp/0452272041/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1417100247&sr=8-11&keywords=lifetrap) a few weeks ago, and it was very eye-opening. The theory goes like this - we're compelled to seek out and create the same circumstances we grew up in. Apparently, familiarity feels safe - even when it's a very wonky kind of familiarity. So consciously, we know that abusive people are bad. But subconsciously, abusers (or withholding people, or whatever) feel familiar, so we tend to feel drawn to them.

If I understand this right, the thing to distrust is this instant attraction, this instant sense of "oh, we could be friends": that's a sign that your subconscious has recognized a familiar pattern there. ("Oh hey, a withholding person who has the social skills of a rabid boar! Why, we're practically family already!") If that's true, then slow-build relationships should be okay? And it's probably also an advantage to know what kind of pattern tends to feel familiar, so we can double-check people around us to make sure they're safe to be around.

I had several fiascos with formerly good friends of mine. Before that, I couldn't explain this at all - why the same things kept on happening over and over again. Each time, it happened out of the blue and shook me to the core. I felt like a jerk magnet. It really really felt like people smelling blood in the water and homing in on it. In hindsight, I'm beginning to see that most of these people gave off warning signs that I simply overlooked. Why? Good question. It's probably got to do with how similar behaviour in my FOO (like withholding, minimizing, trivializing) was normalized: it was this ordinary, harmless thing that people like me were expected to be "not so over-sensitive" about. So of COURSE I ignored the warning signs. That's what I was taught to do, after all. It's encouraging, actually: I'm not a doormat, I was merely taught to think like one. So the more I move out of denial and the more I call a spade a spade, the easier it will be to recognize warning signs now. Or so I hope.

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 27, 2014, 03:13:30 PM
Have you heard of this "repetition compulsion" thing?

Yes. I married my mom.  :blink: :blink: :blink:  Minus the physical abuse.

Ironically, I was becoming aware of this before I discovered his infidelity. Just didn't get the chance to do anything about it, although I had asked him to go to counselling for his anger several times.  :sadno:

Quote from: Rain on November 27, 2014, 06:00:23 PM

Quote from: Sandals on November 27, 2014, 05:29:35 PM
Yes. I married my mom.  :blink: :blink: :blink:  Minus the physical abuse.

I'm laughing ...sorry, but I am.    It is so ridiculous what we have gone through, isn't it?

Onward!

It truly is! I laugh at it, too.  ;D  Especially when I think to myself, "Hey, aren't girls supposed to really marry someone who reminds them of their dad?"  :doh:

Now I can see the purpose that it served (pit a N against another N), but I had noooo idea what was going on before. Talk about being asleep!  :zzz:

But now, I'm getting to be much more like this  :woohoo: and it feels great!

Oh good. I was staring at your sentence and the three emoticons and telling myself: "mustn't laugh --- mustn't laugh---" - but it was very difficult. Glad to hear that you're feeling better.  :hug:

I am so grateful we have a sense of humor here........   :woohoo:

And, sleep is good too.    :zzz:

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 27, 2014, 03:13:30 PM
Have you heard of this "repetition compulsion" thing? I read about it in this book (http://www.amazon.de/Reinventing-Your-Life-Breakthough-FeelGreat/dp/0452272041/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1417100247&sr=8-11&keywords=lifetrap) a few weeks ago, and it was very eye-opening.

I have that exact same book, and it's still in my stack of recent things I've either read or planning to read. I think I tried to read it but maybe I just wasn't ready for it yet.

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 27, 2014, 03:13:30 PM
If I understand this right, the thing to distrust is this instant attraction, this instant sense of "oh, we could be friends": that's a sign that your subconscious has recognized a familiar pattern there.

Exactly - if my current relationship is an exception to this, I will consider myself exceedingly fortunate. It is really different in a lot of ways from the non-stop string of disasters that make up my entire history of relationships... If I had to rank it on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being healthy, and 10 being unbearable abuse, I would put it at a 3. I think it has a chance of surviving the changes I'm about to go through as I learn how to cope with cptsd. 

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 27, 2014, 03:13:30 PM
("Oh hey, a withholding person who has the social skills of a rabid boar! Why, we're practically family already!")

LMAO!! OMG you nailed it!

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on November 27, 2014, 03:13:30 PM
If that's true, then slow-build relationships should be okay? And it's probably also an advantage to know what kind of pattern tends to feel familiar, so we can double-check people around us to make sure they're safe to be around.

Yes this is something I need to begin learning to do. In hindsight, the warning signs were so obvious when I met my ex-husband #2. But I had absolutely zero understanding of mental illness at that time. I have never once experienced this - the only way I do relationships is to jump in with both feet and hope for the best.  :stars:

Same here. The irony of it is: I knew I had to pick friends who were "safe" to be around - but then again their very similarity to my FOO and classmates made them appear safe when they clearly, ironically, were not.

Glad to hear that your current husband doesn't remind you of home. I wish the two of you all the best.

I can recommend the book, btw. The basic points are, more or less:
-- There's a handy little test in the first section. It lets you spot which lifetrap impacts you the most.
-- Definition of a "lifetrap" (or early maladaptive schema). Case studies that illustrate how differently the same schema can play out in people's lives.
-- How we react to a lifetrap (by ignoring it, falling victim to it, or overcompensating for it - VERY interesting, that: it made me realize that every time I'd thought I'd overcome a problem, I was really only overcompensating for it - which is basically like trying to get off a treadmill by running very fast.)
-- Possible causes. (Can be helpful if you're still hunting down possible causes of your CPTSD.)
-- Things you can do to fix it. Often rather general, but I found those tips to be good starting points.
-- Several lifetraps come with lists of things to AVOID in a potential romantic partner: "if you feel attracted to a person who does/is the following things, RUN LIKE H*LL".
The book cover is very garish, which (in my culture) looks less like "serious academic work" and more like "used car salesman flogs his wares", but the book is a lot better than it looks.

I have that book, just finished it recently! "Reinventing Your Life", and I have 7 of the 11 lifetraps in full color HD right now, screwing up my life.  :blink:

I did not see my current bf described in there, thankfully. He's not completely off the hook, but at least he doesn't seem to be the usual narcisstic psychopath I usually go for. ;)

Now I'm working my way through Pete Walker's book, there is a lot to do there.

Once again I am stunned to find my experiences mirrored so precisely in the lives of others. I was undiagnosed for over thirty years and that is a long period of feeling alone and unique (but not in a good way). My wife finds it amazing how I can craft in exquisite detail, be so socially hypervigilant and yet be so unaware of my general surroundings. I always thought of it as scattiness until I read about dissociation and cptsd. But I digress.

When I'm alone my behaviour often changes. I shout insults at myself, often have strong physical tics or spasms and / or say or shout ludicrous off the wall statements. I no longer believe the insults that my neural pathways fire at me, btw. Thank God. When I did I often self harmed out of self disgust.

No one has ever seen me do this. I have never before told anyone I do it. It neither makes me sad or happy. Well obviously it's never going to make me happy! But I just see it as my brain firing off, and that my mind is just observing my brain thinking "there it goes again". I used to try and resist and suppress it. I used to feel ashamed of it. But all that did was exhaust me and eventually make the outbursts (I call them "blurts") worse.

Perhaps one day one will hot me in public but the mechanism for this happening to me alone is so deeply embedded that I somehow doubt it. If I'm really tired I might whisper an insult to myself in a shop but that's about it. God knows what my neighbour must think though. It sounds like I have a hated hostage in the flat sometimes. It sounds like I still do. But as I said...I see my traumatised brain and my sane mind as two different entities. It has helped me a lot although I can't be sure that this has led me up a cul-de-sac as far as a more whole healing goes.

Best of luck to us all :)

Thank you Rain. My stiff upper lift is wobbling a little after reading your immensely kind and understanding reply. I do have a better relationship to my inner critic than I had. For myself I found that fighting it out of revulsion and fear put me in a horrible place. Seeing *my* inner critic as a wound and not an enemy has enabled me to react from a compassionate and loving place instead. It feels like I have stepped from a battlefield into a garden of healing...even if that voice inside repeats itself. It can do so but I find that a quick on the fly bit of love towards it quietens it down. So I still get the blurts, and sometimes the new experience of conscious anger at the perpetrators suddenly rushes through me...but I feel as if I now know what to do. To have a different perspective on them that leads to release in love rather than perpetuation in an inner war.

Of course I get so, so tired of it all some days. But again...that tiredness needs love and not condemnation...just repeating the dose of compassion and love. And the odd glass of sauvignon blanc :-)

Do ypu think its ever possible to rewire / rewrite such deeply embedded neural pathways totally?

Thank you again for your kind helpfulness.

Not sure if we can ever really get rid of the old habits of thought. But I read a book on depression once, and the author said: even if you don't get rid of it, you get better at dealing with it. He compared it to bullfighting. Now, you might hate bullfighting on principle, but let's pretend we live in a Disney movie and no actual bulls get harmed in the making of this metaphor. The bull will keep on having a go at you. But one day, you'll be so good at this that you'll hear it coming from miles away. You'll plant your feet just so, you'll wait... there it is, a massive black shape, horns lowered. You raise your cape. You smile. The bull charges. You take an eensy step to the side. The bull plummets down a cliff.

No idea if that's true for CPTSD. But, I mean, all the work we do has to pay of somehow. So maybe that kind of thing is achievable. I'd like that.

(Writing this has made me want to dig out my Tom Lehrer tapes again. "For there is surely nothing more beautiful in this world than the sight of a lone man facing singlehandedly a half a ton of angry pot roast.")

That pretty much sums up what I do with my outbursts and EF's...in some ways I am "lucky" as my fibromyalgia isolates me from society a lot. I can just pootle on quietly. Or choose to interact via social media which feels much more on my terms, so to speak. If there is no final cure for my brain, if it will always blurt out the damage then knowing I can do something with it that places me in a good, strong place...as opposed to the *...well, I honestly think that I have still done pretty well. Via a total life implosion mind...when I could no longer control my trauma.

I still can't control my trauma inso far when it hits and how hard it hits but I can at least control my response to it and get things under control. A more persistent feeling is one of sorrow these days. But as I keep harping on...it's a wound not an enemy...etc etc which helps. I first got angry with my perpetrators after my initial diagnosis just over a year ago. That was and sometimes still is a huge thing to experience and live with. Anyways...

Thanks for your thoughts Shroedingers Cat!

Quote from: flookadelic on December 18, 2014, 08:33:22 PM
I still can't control my trauma inso far when it hits and how hard it hits but I can at least control my response to it and get things under control. A more persistent feeling is one of sorrow these days.

I can understand the sorrow, flook ...you have lots of grieving to do as you are connecting pieces of the puzzle together as to how you got here.   Others caused you this harm, and that is hard coming to terms with.

As to what you write on the trauma, when and how hard.   I'm curious.  Are there triggers that you can identify?   By chance have you written them down and kind of been like a scientist?   Might be a smell, the time of day, were people with you, that kind of thing.

One step at a time, and besides flook, you have good company on this Journey.  You can share what you find here and it helps others too!

Not alone, friend.

:hug:

Hello Rain, Thank you for your interest. First off...triggers can be random memories esp when I am tired. I don't always sleep so well so this can be a problem. I don't consciously go into the past...sometimes I think that if I look at my past I'll only find more past! But sometimes it comes out of the blue and I find myself in a sort of mental and emotional spasm.

Churches are a difficult thing for me. Walking past them...I feel a mixture of things. Anger...revulsion...regret...pain.

One seemingly weird trigger are adverts for martial art classes. I had a pretty heavy episode a couple of weeks back over that one.

Being pretty well traumatised by age 12 *trigger warnings re religion* with child exorcisms, growing up around my much, much older brothers untreated schizophrenia...well untreated apart from exorcisms...and his resultant descent into a psychotic madness that had him taking a knife to his toes...and satchel, clothing and room searches for  "unchristian material" which felt like being mentally raped...book burnings for the Blake and Tolkien that were discovered (I was made to actually throw the books on the fire...a tad disempowering...) and being made to eat my dinner in front of pictures of starving children to make me grateful for what I had...

Well, as you can imagine I was a complete mess with no confidence whatsoever. I knew that learning a martial art would give me confidence and a chance to meet other kids out of school. But my parents declared that Judo was Satanic and that was that.

Hence that weird trigger...

So being tired and having spontaneous recall...churches...martial art classes...

And I honestly had nowhere else to go. Mixed race marriage meant both my parents were ostracised by their families. Just me, my brothers and my parents. I was the only one not to be a Christian. Kind of isolating and very vulnerable place to be. My views, opinions and perspectives were either condemned and attacked in no uncertain terms or laughed at. My femininity got me into huge trouble..."effeminate demons" was the verdict and being exorcised was the answer.

The sorrow...well now the anger is being healthily processed through art...just sorrow at so much subsequent loss over the three decades of not being diagnosed. Esp relationship wise.

But you know...sorrow comes and goes like clouds in the sky and it's not the clouds that matter...it's the sky itself. I kind of detach and look at my sorrow and it is a strangely peaceful perspective. It may be dissociation but I don't think so. I'm not running from it. Just watching it.

Anyways...onwards and upwards! Love is the key :)

Sorry to have gone a little off topic from the title of the thread.... :-/

No worries.  :hug:  Thanks for telling your story. This must have hit you on so many levels. It reminds me of what I heard of childhoods in the former GDR (East Germany) and other totalitarian regimes - simply just in the way your parents made their own ideology reach deep into your own everyday concerns. Chilling. So, even without the greater events (the book burnings, your brother's behaviour, the exorcisms), that must have been such a narrow, cold world to live in. It's an inspiration that you've reached so much serenity about it. 
:yourock:

Thank you Shroedinger's Cat. My life implosion in 2005 was so severe it kind of fractured the mechanism that gave rise to the implosion and much else besides. Still didn't know I had CPTSD until last year, but it helped me to understand what turned out to be my CPTSD as a wound and not an enemy and to change my relationship with it accordingly. In fact before 2005 I had no idea it was possible to have a relationship with it! I was so caught up in declaring an inner war against it that it blinded me to other options.

There is a degree of serenity that is fractured several times a day...well...a lot more than that thinking about it. But I know what to do when it is fractured to return me to a sense of peace relatively quickly. It took a life implosion but then it was rooted so deeply only an explosion / implosion was ever going to loosen it for me. Simply because it went unaddressed for over 30 years. I am not saying that this is for everyone! We are all different, we are all discovering the best way for ourselves to move forward on an individual level. I really respect that and have no wish to be prescriptive.

Anger does come along. When I got my diagnosis it was if a fraction of all the anger and disgust I held against myself for decades finally went out to the perpetrators. I barely ate or slept. I was furious. Fortunately one day I picked up pencil and paper and began to draw. Turned out that art is a very healthy way to process and release anger. Thank goodness.

Rain, our posts crossed! I have had eye movement thingy and found it helpful in taking the edge of some specifics which is great :) The biggest issue in all of it was that my parents became born again when I was 10 and both of them changed overnight. It was like the invasion of the body snatchers in there. Really. Suddenly they stopped treating me as a child and instead saw me purely as a soul in need of Jesus instead and started to pile on the pressure. And they never stopped.

I had such an amazing friendship and closeness to my mother before this abrupt change out of nowhere. Now I know it was a weird form of bereavement...a weird form of abandonment. They only ever meant well...I always knew that and perhaps that's what saved me at the end of the day. But my mum disappeared into a cloud of signs and wonders and I never really saw her properly again. Oddly enough the moment she died I suddenly remembered how we were once the best and closest of friends. What a waste. What a sad, useless waste.

Anyways...I do now understand that the vast amount of Christians are Christians and not some bunch of insane fundies! And I really do understand why they sought religion so uncompromisingly. It all helps to give some perspective and that is vital when the CPTSD hits.

Thank you so much for being here. Seeing my experiences mirrored and deeply understood, reading some excellent advice and resources. Experiencing the genuine affection and concern here. It really does mean A Lot. Flooky

"Who among you
Would think that such a night of tortured travelling could
give rise to such a glorious morning?" - The Incredible String Band.

The nightmare reasserts, is released into that morning of love and compassion, reasserts, is released onto that morning of love and compassion, reasserts etc etc etc. It takes a lot of effort but the alternative, to look at the nightmare and add my anger, resentment, grief and frustration to the mix because I think that doing so will make the nightmare go away...I'd rather have a bunch of mornings throughout the day than try sitting on the lid, keeping the trauma down for as long as my defences are up. It is work but because love is in the mix it will always feel meaningful and right. I have a pretty sane mind running along a pretty wounded and screwed up brain...trying to live alongside my brain in ways that free me from it rather than brings us both together in a pact from *. Again, my approach and others will have theirs which I totally respect.

Hugs flookadelic ...yup. and the nightmare "bull" swooshes by you, and goes down the cliff.

The more gardens of healing are cleared, the clearer your brain will become.

Well done, flook.    Well done.   :yes:

Thank you Rain :) Most kind. Bye bye bull!

Hi flook :) Thank you for sharing your struggles. I feel a little less lonely, a little more understood.

Quote from: flookadelic on December 18, 2014, 03:08:07 PM


Do ypu think its ever possible to rewire / rewrite such deeply embedded neural pathways totally?

I wonder the same thing. I will keep trying until the day I die.

Hi Voiceless...yeah...it seens that cptsd has set out our life mission  , to recover from our wounded brains as best we can. I spent a long time quite miserable  over the possibility that my brain would always be abusive and prone to self hate & shame. But then I considered how far I have come. And that evrn if the crap doesn't get rewired / re-routed at least I can live in a much kinder compassionate space towards it. Thank you for your kind words. It is such a comfort to know ones own experiences have helped another :) and that we are so much more than we have been taught to believe we are! That alone is a wonderful and strengthening fact.

I know I'm a little late to this conversation as I just discovered this website tonight...

And, I have to say, my heart kind of exploded with relief at reading what all of you had to say: I'm not the only one!!!

I live two lives: one that involves the things people know about (i.e., did I show up for work? Do I look like I brushed my hair? Am I "behaving" like a "normal" person so that everyone will like me and I'll feel sort of safe for a little while?) and the things no one knows about (i.e., the state of affairs in my house, the unpaid bills, the debt, the eating only peanut butter and yogurt for days on end, the sleeping 20 hours a day, the lying about "car trouble" so I don't have to leave the house).

Thank you all for sharing your truth. I feel so much less alone tonight, in this dark night of the soul.

Oh goodness, yes. This constant manoevring and trickstering so I can present to the world a reasonably competent-looking facade.  :sadno:  Something I've begun to suspect during the past few weeks is, this constant public-functioning and private-collapsing is made a LOT worse if you're not just traumatized, but also highly sensitive. Do you think you could be a highly sensitive person? I noticed that simply just making sure I'm not constantly overwhelmed by sensory input makes things easier - so if I'm heading into town and the town centre is full of people, I'm walking slowly now instead of rushing everywhere, and if I can, I head through the less busy side streets.

Welcome to Out of the Storm, by the way. Glad you found us.

Hello Stella h!

I have got to the point where I also live two lives inside my own head, my traumatised brain pumps out the trauma based thought and feelings and my mind, running parallel to it processes and by passes and transcends it and disproves it any old way it can. my experience is defined by the relationship one has to the other.


I have noticed that over the past couple of years I have become more reclusive. I just haven't the energy to engage with people on an everyday level any more. It sounds far more depressing than it is. I just prioritise and staying out of the way wins as it has far more appeal than trying to engage with the world in all but either most practical or political ways...things that I feel most passionate about. But even those are stymied by my fibromyalgia.

I feel pretty neutral towards a lot of thoughts that used to crease me "I f**** hate myself" "I'm a useless c****" and so forth. It's just neural pathways throwing up thoughts that have no basis in reality. My biggest trigger thoughts are towards my perpetrators...I don't want to feel angry or upset or sickened or abandoned. But they have been far more evident since diagnosis of PTSD and latterly of CPTSD. I suppose that's providing the next round of acceptance and forgiveness practice. If I may quote from my own website...

"The Greek word for forgiveness is 'apethis' which literally translates as "releasing" or "letting go". But releasing what?

Releasing the negativity, the frustration, the anger (and more) that we uselessly, and consistently, hold onto when we are hurt; because those feelings drive our unhappy and repetitive thinking, robbing us of the possibility of peace.

We are weakened by our propensity to hold onto our grievances at the times we need all the strength we can muster, because we are holding onto that which drains and weakens us. Frustration, regret, resentment...and other useless and draining emotions. In this sense, acceptance and forgiveness represent a liberation from our own personal negativity; an opportunity to let go of such damaging feelings."

Welcome to OOTS, stella.h  :hug:  I'm so glad you found us!

Just to add to the train of thought here... it just recently occurred to me that the level of success I have had at "faking it" to get along in life has actually backfired, because now that I want to talk about trauma and the hard work I have begun, I have found that I have to be very selective about who I talk to because everyone who knows me thinks I'm faking or exaggerating the trauma, the exact opposite of reality. It's probably easier for people to accept the idea that I'm exaggerating the struggle because I've done such a good job of keeping it secret.

*sigh* oh well, someday I will find a way to show people in a way that makes sense, what it is like in here. That is now my life's mission and purpose - educate and hopefully help others who are struggling.

Another piece of the puzzle just clicked into place for me tonight. I have found my tribe.  :hug:  Reading all of this tonight made so many things that have confused me for the past couple years make so much sense. I need and plan to read through this several more times. Thank you so much for sharing. There are things written about here that I have felt for quite sometime and thought about but have never told anybody. I still feel confused about some of it.....but it is like the door has cracked open and a bit of light has made its way into the corners. It is weird, but I would have to say my life has drastically changed over the last probably 3 years. When my parents did what they did and walked out of my life, moved 1200 miles away to live near my golden child brother and never even said goodbye........there has been a hole, a sadness there, that has never gone completely away. I do feel like having them gone has been so much better for me in almost every way. The critic isn't quite as loud anymore, and that is huge. Yet I do feel so "different" because nobody I know has had this happen to them, being abandoned by their entire family...........and I think that was the beginning of the kind of things shared on this thread.....for me. I FEEL different.......when I am out I feel shame, but I do my best to hide it.......at home I feel like a huge load has been lifted. Like I am free as soon as I come in. I also feel that freedom when I am out hiking for miles and miles in the woods and mountains....I love that.  I have finally stopped shaming myself for my at home behavior. Like that saying that is so popular right now says "be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle." Well I have started being kind to myself just recently and it feels very good...because I AM fighting a battle...that nobody sees........my husband does a little, but mainly I journal and talk to my dogs  ;) I don't find myself wanting to share this, because it is so raw and so vulnerable. This thread really brought a lot of things to light for me......a new beginning  :hug:

Same here. I used to feel so absolutely ashamed for being so "weak", for "lacking motivation", or whatever other labels I and others were using. That I was taught to ignore my problems (the implication being: "and then you'll realize they were never real and that you're just over-dramatizing things")... it made matters worse. Hiding things takes up energy. Hiding how emotionally exhausted I was actually exhausted me yet more. It was yet ANOTHER thing I had to pretend to be fine about... which caused EFs, which exhausted me still more. Glorious.  :sadno: 

If anyone would have told me a few years ago that one way of fixing my exhaustion/demotivation is accepting it and talking about it, I'd have told him this is wishful thinking. But there we go - the facts are what they are. I think: "gosh, I'm knackered", and hey, I'm feeling better already. Very bizarre.

 

QuoteI have finally stopped shaming myself for my at home behavior.

Wow. There in a nutshell the division between outside and indoirs alone behaviour.

I am delighted you have found this corner of the net Fairyslipper. "Rarely are members of the same family born under the same roof" - Richard Bach. I was also astounded when I first read others experiences that mirrored my own. It was and still is a big help to me to know we are not alone. To be inspired and to also help lift those of us who need it from time to time. Glad you made it here :-)

No, we are not alone...* of a great group.

Welcome to the tribe, fairyslipper!  :hug:

I know exactly how you feel, about finding this place. I am just beginning recovery too, with many, many misdiagnoses and false starts along the way, but now I see some light!

And I have people to share the struggle with, that is SOOOOO important and I was so aware of that, and frustrated b/c I could not find any, but here they are!

Again, welcome, and best of luck to you.

Cat........yes, yes, and yes, to EVERYTHING you said.  :hug: I used to hear 'don't dwell on it,' or 'don't be so sensitive' so often they are forever ingrained in my head. Or when something would happen and I would try to share with my mom, she was always there to one up it and tell me how much worse she had it. It is definitely programmed into us. You start hiding your real feelings and it is exhausting, because we are living such an inauthentic life and our body knows it and quickly tires of it. We just shut down on so many levels. You know, today, well actually last night.......I was feeling like I needed to spend a day in bed, with the dogs watching tv and journaling  :yes: ........so today, just like I planned, that is exactly what I did. I laid in bed until I WANTED to get up and did not feel the least bit bad about it. And the rest of my day was very productive. I used to feel very guilty about days like this,  but then it was like walk a day in my shoes or a week ha ha and then we'll talk. I really let myself FEEL my feelings now. And thankfully I no longer feel guilt for that either. I used to terribly!

Flookadelic....thank you so much  :hug: I love that quote too. It is healing just to KNOW we are not alone in our feelings and to accept, really accept that they are not our fault. I am so happy I made it here too. Thanks!

marycontrary.......couldn't agree more. Very strong too! :hug:

voicelessagony2.......so nice to meet you too.........that light is so encouraging.....I feel the same way and wish you the very same.  :hug:

Quote from: fairyslipper on February 04, 2015, 06:41:32 AMI really let myself FEEL my feelings now. And thankfully I no longer feel guilt for that either. I used to terribly!

Oh, same here. Just the simple fact of feeling exhausted was enough to push all my panic buttons. MUST HIDE! MUST HIDE! Because if I didn't, there'd be a danger of rejection/"good advice"/criticism/abuse. It still takes quite a bit for me to realize that (a) I'm entitled to a bit of exhaustion, (b) it's safe now, and (c) taking a break will actually make me less exhausted. Fancy that. (A part of me still has "taking breaks" and "taking it slow" filed under "dangerous sign of weakness that will have the sharks home in for the kill").

So hooray for your nice relaxed morning with your dogs!  :waveline:  I'm actually doing something like that too: picking up my kid from school always triggers a mild, mild EF. My daily lunchtime EF, as it were. Mild, but annoying. So today, I'm taking twenty minutes to have a cup of tea and just relax. Ever since I spent a year in the UK, I've got "tea" filed under "things that fix everything", it's funny.

I was reading through the beginning of this thread and I love it.  I know that there were a few "titles"given for this experience and reality.

In working with my T I know that at my previous job it was so emotionally soul sucking and unhealthy that between work and parenting had very little energy for more than dinner, personal and home hygiene.

It was after I was "fired" from my job and found a new one the following day that I finally had the time and, ironically, the money, to start working on the harder part of healing and recovery through this forum.

I enjoy my hobbies now sporadically.  I liked the idea here of simplifying things.  Some people know about my new focus on simply purifying my spaces with sage as a first step, the beading and dancing will come when I'm ready.  I think that my next step will be to "play with my rocks again.  I have a plate with beautiful stones that may have healing properties if you believe in that kind of thing.  Either way simply holding them til they're warm, then moving them around, is pleasant.

I love Netflix series that deal with Adult Survivors.  Orange is the New Black and Saving Grace have been two favorites.  Now I've been identifying with people who've "fallen from grace" so to speak, feeling kicked out of my profession in my small community so I'm finding some "story" that I can identify with there. 

I have spent much of my life "helping" people who live in "poverty" and are experiencing "crisis."  After I had my major life crisis I started commenting when appropriate that "middle class people have as much drama, domestic violence, pain, addiction, etc. as those in poverty.  they just don't talk about it to anyone.  and they're good at hiding it."  The point being that as is stated here so many times maintaining that facade is emotionally exhausting.  I was likening our reality to running from a tiger in caveman days.  It's like social situations create a level of stress that is very real.  So whatever one can do to merge the two realities becoming more authentic in both places, the better.

Maybe the title would be "tuckered out from the tiger chase" haha

I guess my point is that I've found ways to "collapse" in private that hopefully lift me up a little, or at the very least don't pull me down.  I found myself feeling guilty for needing to rest and recharge my energy, guilt doesn't help either. 

It really does and then when you throw in the double whammy of maybe not being  honest with yourself about what you feel and why.....the guilt is hugely exhausting on top of it. It is funny as I sit here typing this, it feels a bit foggy like coming out of a cloud in a sense after reading all the posts here and having them tick so many boxes, yet still being in a place of somewhat confusion about all of it. I have NEVER read anything like this thread so vividly describing so much of what I have felt every single day now for the better part of three years. It is lessening. I am coming out of it, but getting to the bottom of it and taking that first step toward understanding it is huge. So thankful for this thread! I thoroughly enjoyed my day yesterday, thank you.  I hope you enjoyed your tea. That sounded like a perfect time out with space for beautiful nurturing and self care. I am right there with you.........a fellow tea lover  :yes: It does have magical powers doesn't it?  :hug: Tonight I was having more anxiety than I have had for a little while........I went for a brisk walk and then did a yoga practice with a lot of twists, to help with the anxiety. I used to feel bad about doing that too...taking an hour or so for me. But not any more. I felt so much better after. The anxiety had completely gone away. Sounds like we are on a very similar path, and it feels amazing little by little taking our power back doesn't it? :cheer:

C.....it is so nice to see it validated and explained.........I would love to hear more about your rocks. We have some land higher up in the mountains than where we live that has a huge area of crystal, amethyst and black tourmaline. I have brought so much home. I was really drawn to the tourmaline and had no idea why, other than loving how it looked....so different.......then I read the qualities of the rocks.....I was pretty blown away. I have always felt such a positive vibe and lightness when we visit that area. There has to be something to it! Anything that naturally lifts you up, is a good thing in my book  :yes: The path you are on sounds very exciting also. And taking care of ourselves after social situations that are difficult to say the least is the start of really good self care........and definitely leads to more authenticity. It feels so uncomfortable at first because it is so foreign to us........like the brain has to rewire and go........ok, this IS good for me  :yes: and get rid of the lousy programming we have lived with for so long. This thread is very enlightening and a springboard for so much promise coming in our lives. I need to keep reading it!

I feel enormous pride in us when I read through threads like this and see the kind and generous (and of course very smart  ;D) people we are.  What a wonderful tribe to belong to! :hug:

Fairslipper,

You have a beautiful way of describing and validating what's been written so far.  Thank you.  As for the rocks, wow I could go on and on.  I've become cautious b/c I know some people see it as new age fufu make believe lol  But like has been shown here so much that works is later explained through science...we just don't know yet.  I collected agates as a child and have always loved looking at rocks.  A few years ago a friend of mine became a Reiki apprentice which is when I started to view rocks as more than simply a hobby.  Through the group of Reiki people I discovered the whole concept of energy. 

All of this reminds me a bit about nutrition.  People from Western philisophical healing perspectives use to separate what we eat from our health.  Then the properties of foods and the specific positive and negative affects have been studied and gradually proven.

I feel that the same type of potential exists in minerals.  But they have tactile energy properties that can positively affect us through energy.  I don't know a lot but have been told which rocks for which properties that related to my needs.  Like pink rose quartz is associated with "self" love (I prefer to think of  self as my soul to define  this type of love.)  So if a rock has properties that you need, when you hold it in your hand it will warm up.  Also, many have a strong intuition on what they need or works for them.  I love the story about Tourmaline that you mention...what happens when you hold the stones?

Anyway, that's a little more about another topic.  I too am very happy that you found this community! ;D

Quote from: C. on February 08, 2015, 10:34:46 PM

I feel that the same type of potential exists in minerals.  But they have tactile energy properties that can positively affect us through energy.  I don't know a lot but have been told which rocks for which properties that related to my needs.  Like pink rose quartz is associated with "self" love (I prefer to think of  self as my soul to define  this type of love.)  So if a rock has properties that you need, when you hold it in your hand it will warm up.  Also, many have a strong intuition on what they need or works for them.  I love the story about Tourmaline that you mention...what happens when you hold the stones?

I am so happy that I am not the only one here that appreciates rocks! I have quite a collection from rock shops that were "calling me." I almost always wear or have a rock with me. Somehow I decided that since rocks have been here since the earth began they must know things. Then I found out there are books about their properties, etc. Anyway, I like having them around.

I read somewhere that it is neurologically soothing to rub your thumb on a stone.  :yes:

Very interesting.  I thought I did that because I'm sick, not from the CPTSD.  Hmmm. 

This truly is an amazing tribe!!!  :yes: I love it here!

I have always been drawn to rocks for their beauty and collect heart shaped stones too. This area is very new to me as far as the energy and everything......but there really is something to it.......I believe. And things that I have read really support that too. It is exciting, I think. It is fun reading what you guys wrote here about them. So much beauty in this world........

After being on this thread, I have been paying more attention to how I "feel" when going out. Yesterday we had a busy day of running around, and meeting people. I could not believe how I felt a full on panic almost before leaving the house. But then when I was finally caught up in the actual going and doing, it did ease off. I was trying to be super mindful of the experience.

1. I hear a lot of shoulds going through my brain....pressure to get EVERYTHING done that needs to get done before leaving the house...sooo I delegated  ;) and asked my husband to do a couple things while I got ready.

2. Once we left the house, lots of what-ifs were playing through my mind.......and then as if they had already happened, I felt this out of nowhere really, irritability start up.......and I thought my husband does not need me in an irritable mood for something imaginary especially and something he did not cause........so I tried to get a grip and did some deep breathing which helped. By the time we got to the first person's house......I was feeling normal and the rest of the day went pretty well, honestly.

3. I allowed myself a special treat as far as junk food lol for making it through the day. I don't do that too often, and it was fun. I splurged on a couple of things. And then I told myself that I could take care of me tomorrow and sleep in if I needed to. It was like just giving myself this permission eased my tension a lot too. I slept great and had a really good day today, without all that fallout I usually have.

Thank you so much for this thread for the awareness it provides..........by being aware we can take control back. Before reading this thread I would just ride the wave and now I feel like I have some control again.  :hug:

I felt like chiming in on the rock conversation.

I'm a skeptic at heart, and I tend to categorize as "woo" anything that is not directly proven with math and science - competent math and science, too, I am not fooled by so-called "studies" that do not provide study methodology information such as how the data was collected, who did the study, is the source reliable or somebody with an ulterior motive to prove a point, etc....

However, I also have an avid interest in quantum physics and quantum mechanics, and the scientific world has soooo much to learn in this field, and they do not yet have answers for certain things. For example, the double slit photon experiment proves only that certain things can only be measured as probabilities, because the act of observation seems to change the outcome. Quantum entanglement experiments have proven that the state of two atoms miles apart can be accurately predicted if they are entangled.

Which brings me to rocks... someone in this thread said something about rocks being here since the beginning of the earth... actually, if you think about it, they have been in existence long before the earth, the same matter that makes up the moon, the asteroid belt, other planets... We are all made of star stuff, so who is to say that this star matter we hold in our hands does not have some effect that we might even discover someday, at the quantum level?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMIhxWRGNw

Hi Folks - I normally lock a thread at 5 pages but let this go a bit as I didn't want to interrupt the flow of this thread, but I think it's OK to do so here.  I've set it as a "Sticky" becasue it is an important topic and new members will be able to find it and read it more easliy.

Please feel free to start a new thread on the topic, a part 2 if you will  ;D