I am SO SICK of asking, "are you mad at me?" ahhh!! I ask my boyfriend all the time. There is like this part of my brain that always thinks people are mad at me!
I recently was afraid my doctor was mad at me because he wasn't available, and I asked another doctor to prescribe me a medication.
I get afraid of my therapist not thinking much of me at times....
But the thing about all this, is that I KNOW that there is no reason for them to be mad/disapproving of me. My father especially, as well as my mother always had the unrealistic expectations of me, and my father was particularly angry and violent, so I think I developed always seeking approval and being afraid that someone would be mad at me had I not met their expectations.
This has been going on for so long, and I have never elaborated it like this. It's so intense, how much I feel it, the tears are starting to pour..
Do any of you relate with this (and I am sure some of you do)?
Ehrmm... No, not at all.
I never ask if people are angry. Basically my position is: if they are angry, they should tell me. I'm not guessing.
I might say: "boy, do you look/act/behave angry". But that's rare. Usually they respond they are "NOT ANGRY!" anyway, so I've learned to keep my mouth shut.
On a more hilarious note: I once had an Italian girlfriend who asked me "Are you angry?". "*?" I thought, and actually got a bit angry/upset about it.
It turned out she had actually asked: "are you hungry" (latin languages practically always have the 'silent H', they have difficulty pronouncing it.) :doh:
That's funny Dutch. Thanks for your feedback. :thumbup:
Sadly, I concur with this 100%. It's like I just assume that other people, anyone, will be negative vis-a-vis anything I do. It's insidious, and the worst, so normal for me.
If I don't assume they're mad, it's like they might very well be, any moment, no matter what. Or they'll disapprove of something; if not mad, perhaps recall a time when I fell short of the mark. Or I'll be misunderstood. The list is pretty lengthy...even, let's see, someone calls me and says "we haven't seen you in a bit, why don't you come over--we need our [my other name] fix."
And I know it doesn't show much here, but people do seem to regard me as a funny sort they enjoy having around, but my suspicion bulb is always lit--nudging me with "yeah, right, they're just saying that; they're saying what they think you want to hear," etc., ad infinitum.
I put together an acting gig for a dinner/theater each October. It' a pretty big undertaking, and gets consistent rave reviews from everyone; but afterwards I'm hunting for something, anything, that must have gone wrong, somebody may not have liked, had a problem with that I can assume was my fault. Then the cycle of my mind's swirl turns on me, and I'm so angry at myself, but everybody else loved everything about what I did. Grrrrrrrr....
Oh yeah :yes:, it's still that ongoing project--to trust, to feel, to not just be me, but to have the self-compassion that allows me to accept "me". And for sure it :pissed: me off.
So let's start from here as we climb towards that true acceptance of ourselves, maybe even for the first time. :hug:
Quote from: woodsgnome on August 26, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
nudging me with "yeah, right, they're just saying that; they're saying what they think you want to hear," etc., ad infinitum.
This is something I do relate to.
And it has been growing on me the past years, and was one of the prime reasons I decided to seek help for my boozing and my anxiety.
Quote
So let's start from here as we climb towards that true acceptance of ourselves, maybe even for the first time. :hug:
I'll toast to that. :thumbup:
"Sadly, I concur with this 100%. It's like I just assume that other people, anyone, will be negative vis-a-vis anything I do. It's insidious, and the worst, so normal for me" and "my suspicion bulb is always lit".
Yep. :yes: i guess i just feel (know)that people don't like me and even (especially) if they say they do, that really either they are just saying that, or they may mean it now but soon they will go away from me or turn on me or whatever.
as far as angry at me goes, people rarely get that far openly, i think i must be too sycophantic to let it, thanks to growing up with a very short-fused dad, (plus living in a xian cult for years, where openly expressing anger was a no-no).
one person who did was a person i considered for years as a kind of second mum whom i loved very dearly, and she got so angry at me when i left my husband - more like total, vitriolic character assassination - she told me "everything you are and everything you do is tainted by soulishness" (a cult word for selfish, worldly, etc.) i haven't been able to get that barb out of my head since. it is very hard not to believe it when someone you love that much says it. it proves to my crazy mind that i really am irredeemably flawed i guess.
that incident was the beginning of the end for me in terms of functioning as a human being and i don't know how to begin to rebuild myself. so i have isolated myself and try to avoid humans if i can.
i get very tired of being like this all the time but i don't know how to not be.
sorry for the gutspill :stars:
Wow.
This whole question: "are you angry" just brought me a EF. (I guess. Still not sure/learning about the concept)
I just told that the "are you (h)angry" pissed me off, basically.
And I suddenly realized that it might well have to do with my (therapist)mother who was is always inquiring/inquisitioning me about "if I'm OK" and always then sends me off the deep end, that I'm really not OK, even if I say I am. That my aura is oozing, somewhere, terminally.
So I'm not at all prepared for the possibility that if I answer (calmly): "No. I'm not angry. Peace reigns." and the other would say: "Oh, great. Just checking. Lovely." And all remains as well as it was.
No such luck with mom.
Thanks. I think this has been a major 'upper' for me.
Sorry if this is a threadjack.
hey DutchUncle, :bighug:
Yeah, I know you what you mean KayFly. Even with safe people who I know genuinely love and care for me I worry that I'm going to do something to upset them. I'm very unassertive as a result of only meeting my father's needs throughout my childhood/teens and tend to keep my head down everywhere I go. Now I'm getting serious about wanting to recover I'm making a mental note to stop asking people whether they're unhappy with me, as validation should come from myself rather than other people. Love yourself and all that.
Funny you mentioned your former colleague, Southbound. My boss once said to me, "You always look so guilty about something." At the time it was kind of a kick in the teeth to have someone point it out so brazenly, but now I understand more about what's happened to me I'm starting to see that my instant panic response is not my fault.
I'm sorry to hear so many of us are affected by this. It's interesting.
I can see where it comes from, like you Blues_Cruise. I like the idea of self validation, rather than asking. But sometimes I genuinely don't know. So why can't I ask? I want to know for myself. Maybe next time I will sit on it for a bit before I ask.
I feel you Woodsgnome...it is ongoing, and complicated, keep your head up.
Thank you for the book suggestion Southbound
And thanks everyone for sharing and relating and empathizing. You're all great. I think I would speak more but I am like brain dead and tired.
Haha. Yeah I don't like to give advice unless it's something I follow, or am willing to follow, but "I love me" is a good mantra. I also like the "I'm on my side."...true that...
I have apologized too much in times that I haven't needed to, and because i have recognized this, I am getting much much better about it. I don't find myself apologizing much anymore unless I really have to.
Progress is good..
I figured out that I always feel responsible for everything that goes wrong. I guess after 17 years of being a kid being blamed for every thing that went wrong for my mother its not surprising.
."My boss once said to me, "You always look so guilty about something."" - the story of my life. Lol
If one feels responsible and wears a guilty look it soon becomes easy to pass the blame onto the scape goat. It's hard growing up and nobody trust you, of course it takes years before you can understand why. It's great to know that I am not alone here. It's tiring having to always work against that though. Difficult to have any self confidence.
Yes I am also asking partners if they are angry about something. I notice as well that because one thinks that one is annoying it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
The hardest thing is working relationships, after about a year I trend to run out of energy, then it seams just a short while before I get a letter from the HR dept. I also seem to attract drama, life can never be straight forward.
That might be my biggest problem and it extends to random people
MOST DEFINITELY :yes:! As someone said in this thread, I guess that happens as a result of being in trouble and always wrong for the first 17 years of your life. Then, being so comfortable being the pincushion and not knowing any different letting the pattern continue with a boss I worked for over 20 years and in my marriage (yet, he is the porn addict and I am always the one that feels guilty and that I have done something wrong). I agree with everything that has been said in this thread and can totally relate. I am always apologizing and taking responsibility for anything that goes wrong even when it really was not in my control. I have had several people ask, "what are you apologizing for?" and also ask "Why would you think I was mad at you?" But, I really do not know how to tell when someone is or isn't or know where to draw the line on how much of something I should take responsibility for and what I should not :fallingbricks:.
And, what about compliments? Does anyone else struggle with that as well? I was never allowed to feel good about myself or what I had done for the first 40 years of my life. Now, I actually have healthy relationships as work with fellow managers and coworkers. When they try to compliment me, I do not accept them well. Cannot look them in eyes, always downplaying them, giving credit to everyone else, or just change the subject completely. I have had several managers call me out on not being able to accept their compliments as well as my T. My T sets me up once in awhile in a session to see if I have made any improvement in being able to accept and respond to compliments. I would say not much, still pretty weak in this area too.
MaryAnn :hug:
I have a similar problem with compliments, Mary Ann.
In my current line of work, it's sometimes a problem. I'm expected to do some self-promoting, and I just can't. I hate it. I don't mind promoting other people's accomplishments, but drawing attention to myself makes me more than a little uneasy. I do public speaking -- and do -- without anxiety. But I tell myself it's about the message, not about me.
I've asked myself why, off and on. Perhaps I fear morphing into a version of my narcissistic abuser? Perhaps I fear that attention will somehow allow her to undermine anything I do?
I've not worked it out (yet).
the compliments thing reminds me of some really good advice i had from a bpd friend who learnt this in DBT:
whenever they got a compliment they had to practise not dissing it, but hearing the person out and then simply saying,'thank you..name ...that means a lot' and then resisting the temptation to say anything else. that is so hard to do.
i also realised tho, how validating it is for me, if i say a nice thing about a person and they just thank me for it and don't do all the 'oh, no, you can't possibly mean it, who me?...' stuff that makes it almost turn into an argument. so actually i guess it's important for me to learn to receive with grace what is given with grace.
I think that's good advice from DBT, Arpy1. I try to do something like that, if only because the "oh, no, you can't mean me" response really does sound offensive. But I'm still uncomfortable. I think compliments make me feel vulnerable, as if I'm being set up to be taken down. Small wonder: that's part of the abuser's repertoire. So if I take myself down or at least avoid being set up, I'm a little safer.
yep, same here, i get that. it is really hard. :hug:
I was watching some Youtube vids last night and came across this interview with Rick Hanson that addresses the question of taking in compliments in a nourishing way.
What does it mean to "take" a compliment, anyway?? Until now, I guess I just considered it a matter of thanking the person complimenting you rather than denying what s/he says. It didn't occur to me that you could actually reap some soul-enriching benefit from being complimented...and that reaping these benefits is an ability you can cultivate.
https://youtu.be/BJR3LknDV1o
Rick Hanson :thumbup: I actually have a subscription to his newsletters. I should could read them more diligently ;) .
I'll watch the vid. Tanks for posting.
Edited to add: awesome vid. Rick Hanson is great. He really offers excellent 'baby steps'.
For me the problem with taking compliments stems, I think, from the fact that:
1) I hardly ever got one when growing up. So how was I supposed to learn to take one, when they were never offered?
2) I hardly ever got one from my FOO when an adult. See 1).
3) If I ever got one, it was either followed by a put down soon after, (could be the next sentence that was uttered) or I had just had a put down, after which the compliment was more like a 'fauxpology'. So like Stillhere said, "I'm being set up to be taken down".
So yeah, I have a hard time receiving compliments. I even dropped out of my MA after I received two A's. Simply couldn't handle it, and the study adviser who tried to pull me through could repeat a 100 times that "A's are not being hand out like candy here, Uncle.", I simply froze for the next assignments. Couldn't 'believe it', no matter how hard my cognition pleaded with me: "take it! It's true! Of course it's true! You'll breeze through it all! You've got A's!"
:sadno:
compliments make me anxious but if theyre specific i believe them and i get super motivated
Oh, blergh, I reckon I ask my partner about three times a week if he's angry with me. And out of the 37 million times I've asked him, about three times he's said yes, and then we've gone on to have a measured discussion about his anger and it's been fine.
But that still doesn't stop me at the moment (I'm severely relapsed when it comes to being triggered) from wondering constantly. Just last night he appeared to be down and wasn't talking much and I said, "Are you angry?" even though a part of me was standing with hands on hips and saying, "Come on, Susie, you know he's not angry with you. Don't give in to the catastrophising." But I did, and of course no, he wasn't angry with me. Bleck.
Re compliments, I feel like I'm getting better at accepting them. I decided a decade or so ago to learn to graciously accept them and say Thanks even though part of me was clamouring and scrabbling on the inside of my guts.
It's so hard to stay afloat above all of the old voices and the terror and the catastrophising. I am totally fed up with the fight today.