Out of the Storm

Multiple answers possible. You may change your vote. (If you do so, please state what you changed and why)
For some explanation on the types:
http://www.insightfulinnovations.com/zykrblog/roleplaying-family-roles
http://www.recoveredfamily.com/codependency/codependency-and-family-roles.aspx
edit: that link appears dead. Here's the webarchive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20150508081425/http://www.recoveredfamily.com/codependency/codependency-and-family-roles.aspx
But this poll is not about the role (you think/feel) that was assigned to you, but the role you took yourself. They may overlap, but possibly not.


I struggle with identifying me with these roles. I sometimes think I have fulfilled them all. And nowadays I even see there are overlaps/switches I make in the way I function within the FOO.

I do think though for the majority of time and characteristics of my role in the FOO, I'm the Low Maintenance Child. I like to keep a low profile, am very reluctant in expressing any grievances I have to FOO-members (both face-to-face, but even more so behind-their-backs). I'm self-reliant, don't ask for help/aid, don't ask for support. Not only where it's concerning my FOO, but in all 'walks of life'.
Then I see a bit of the Clown in my behavior, though I think it's more 'good humored' (as in "mood")
There's definitely a Helper, but not Enabling.
And with the Scapegoat I struggle the most. Since I resist 'Truth Telling'. It is a role that's being pushed on me, but which I have resisted my whole life. I do feel good 'spilling the beans' here though. It needs to be said. For my sake. Not the Family's sake.

So, for the purpose of this poll I'll vote: The Invisible Child.
For the rest of the FOO I might well be the Scapegoat.

Thanks for steamy for the inspiration to set this up. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2353.0
I hope these 'self discoveries' can serve a purpose hand-in-hand.

This is interesting because I think you're right, the roles can and do overlap. I think I was conditioned to be The Scapegoat and my reaction as I grew up was to take on traits of The Low Maintenance Child in order to cope with the constant shouting and criticism. I think my survival mechanism, even into adulthood, has been to make myself as low profile as possible to avoid unwanted criticism. Unfortunately it meant that I let my father treat me as a doormat for what I felt for a long time was an easier life, though I see now that this was not fair on myself and was damaging in the long run. I'm very quiet as a result and tend to be reluctant to assert myself in situations as growing up assertiveness was punished and therefore dangerous. Parents really can screw you up, can't they?

Quote from: blues_cruise on September 19, 2015, 09:59:20 AM
I think I was conditioned to be The Scapegoat and my reaction as I grew up was to take on traits of The Low Maintenance Child in order to cope with the constant shouting and criticism.
[..]
Parents really can screw you up, can't they?

They sure can.
So did you vote for "The Low Maintenance Child" ?

I ask since I share many of the thoughts/experiences you mentioned.
And I think that for my recovery, I better focus on not being a "Low Maintenance Child" anymore, rather than on focussing on "How not to be the ScapeGoat". The two probably go hand in hand, but in a paradoxical way: If I go "claim the maintenance" I need in order to have a healthy relationship (IMHO relationships always require a maintenance effort for, and to, both involved) the scapegoating will probably increase ("Don't be such a high maintenance prat, Dutch"), but it will put the 'blame', the effort to 'solve' the problem back on them: "Yes, I (or: our relationship) do(es) indeed need some maintenance, thank you. Now get on with it! Show me the goodies!"

I'm pretty sure this will not bring any reprieve/resolution in my FOO (my parents are in their 80's, they'll never be able to escape/change their routine before they'll pass on), but it might well bear fruit in other existing relationships (quite a few are probably not even build on it, it's just that I'm so used to being "Low Maintenance" that I fall back in my routine, regardless of them), and definitely in establishing healthy relationships when new opportunities for them arise.

my decision was instant, no question, the golden and the ghost. that was in my FOO.

in my second FOO, the jp, i morphed into first the caretaker and then later when i returned to them,  the scapegoat. 

that's a bit complicated, but i really did have two FOO's. one my natural family, and one my jp family. not sure i can get my head round that but it's true.

Quote from: arpy1 on September 19, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
my decision was instant, no question, the golden and the ghost. that was in my FOO.

Excuse me for prying, but does that mean you assumed the role of the Golden child, while your FOO treated/assigned you as the ghost, or the other way around?

Quotenot sure i can get my head round that but it's true.

It seems perfectly plausible to me.  :thumbup:

i think, altho this is off the top of my head, that i was the ghost and became the golden becos it probably got me some sort of place in the family. my brother (eldest) and my sister (middle) were always problematic kids, and i was the 'good' one.

i was the third, unplanned child. mum was told after my sister that her health wouldn't stand another childbirth. i was an accident and she was ill, in and out of hospital for the first four or five years of my life. dad couldn't cope and was always angry, he was a policeman and worked shifts so it must have been very stressful with three small kids, one a baby.

i remember never knowing who i would wake up to in the mornings, who would be there to look after me. i was always afraid becos i only really felt safe with mum or with her mum, my nan. the others were scary/angry/distant. so i guess i learnt to make myself invisible so no one would get angry at me. i knew from right early on there was no guarantee that anyone would be available to make me feel safe. the not knowing was the worst bit.

Thanks.
So for the purpose of this poll it 'should' be the Ghost.
(I possibly should rephrase my original post better)

For the jp-FOO, vote accordingly. Twice if you want. (since you have a jp1 and jp2, no? )

Quote from: arpy1 on September 19, 2015, 11:04:13 AM
i was the third, unplanned child. mum was told after my sister that her health wouldn't stand another childbirth.

Interesting analogy with my personal history (though not quite the same)
When my mother gave birth to my brother, health issues arose as well.
She was advised to postpone further childbirth, at least for the coming years.
As a result, she was probably one of the first women (in this nation) to be prescribed the contraceptive pill. We're talking the mid 60's here.
After some years it was apparently decided her wounds had healed properly, and with consent of her GP (for lack of a better term) she got pregnant of me. The four year gap between me and my brother is the result of this. I'm also the only child to have been born in hospital, as a preventive measure.
(this reminds me of a funny side note: My sister was conceived on their wedding night (or perhaps night two or three  ;) , I sure hope those nights actually took place regardless.). We as kids used to tease our parents with that, for the visible discomfort it brought to them (especially dad) when we teenagers flashed our knowledge about sex (well, the reproductive essentials of it) while obviously ignorant still about the actual act.  ;D )

it only lets me vote once so i did invisible child. hope that will serve??

Quote from: arpy1 on September 19, 2015, 11:36:13 AM
it only lets me vote once so i did invisible child. hope that will serve??

:thumbup:

Thanks for telling me only one vote is allowed.
I had hoped more than one would be possible, but apparently it isn't.

I'll look into it, but barring any update on this post: One vote it is.

Update:

It's possible (for me, but possibly that's only because I made the poll) to "remove vote", and revote while ticking more than one box/option, and then push the 'vote' button. I have been able to vote all six  ;D .

It's not possible to vote one option more than once, that's true.
That's OK, I'm curious about the self-identification, primarily. If such a self-identification happened more than once, in different circumstances, it does add 'weight' I guess, but it's OK if it's not visible as such in the poll.

ok, i did that. hope it worked  ;D :hug:

Yes!  ;D

Cool survey! Thanks Dutch Uncle!

I was def the scape goat, my mum used to directly blame me for things that went wrong for her. Even when she might have cut her finger or dropped a plate. I can hear her now, "I've just cut my finger making YOUR dinner, you drive me crazy."

I was also the problem child I have even been called the prodical son and black sheep of the family in public.

The amazing thing is that the roles assigned never bear any relation to reality, the prodical son comment came after i had just graduated from putting myself through university after 12 years in the Navy rising to the rank of Cheif Petty Officer by age 24. Some prodical son. My parents wanted others to think that they had paid to put me through university.

I later became the invisible child, I used to compete in bicycle races on a normal shop bought bike with 1 1/4 inch wheels, was probably the least cool guy in the group out on training rides in trousers with cycle clips when my peers were decked out in the latest Lycra. I used to try to get lifts to events and sometimes had to resort to riding there and participating before riding home again.

I also became the golden child lol

Could you tell me what you voted? It's not clear to me. You mentioned so many  ;) .

To clarify: This poll is not about what role was assigned to you, but the role you took up yourself. (they may be congruent, if you're obedient, or not, if you're rebellious. Or you may even have switched from one to the other)


I was assigned the Scapegoat (I'm supposed to clear all the mess, preferably by 'acting it out'.) but I resisted my whole life (resulting in ever existing conflict: How dare you not solve our mess!), and thus tried to be become invisible. ("Huh? Our mess? No-no-no, not mine! But let's keep that under the table, where it already is.")
So I voted: Invisible Child.

When you f.e. said : "I also became the golden child lol" was that you who took up that role at that time, or was it what became expected of you at some point? And if so, did you then 'oblige', or stuck to the role you had already taken by then?

I dunno, I'm resistant to ever dredging up the FOO follies, but the *, I gave it a twang of the old emotional rubber band but still come up too confused and/or too angry to really know if my vote was accurate.

If I understood right, you vote for what you become, correct? So that's "lost child" land, alright. But I think it matches well with the FOO all the way through. One glaring gaffe in the poll is that I was in pretty steady trouble with school, but much of it wasn't anything I ever actually did either; it was just a disaster, period. I think the m was emotionally ...

umm, well you know what...I really have to bail out of this--it's too upsetting...but if a vote was requested, yeah the lost child fits, at least at the end, once upon a time. I know what happened, every stinking detail, and analyzing it all leads me to just one big cry; I'll have to leave it at that. Sorry.
                              :sadno: :'( :'( :'( :sadno:

 :hug: woodsgnome

 :hug: :hug: :hug: to you, wsg.

I've taken lots of personality tests, but today when I got to all that family stuff, my head started spinning, and I lost it. I felt chilled, needed a blanket (on a warm afternoon), actually went to bed early, and will be back there as soon as I'm done with this. Realized maybe I should explain.

I couldn't detach from the horror movie that was in my head. I was totally unwanted and unloved. Not unique, just hurts; as everyone knows, this isn't always some smooth ride over the bumps. As I wasn't wanted anyway, I don't even qualify as lost. The only category that fits any of this is heartbreak.

Quote from: arpy1 on September 19, 2015, 11:04:13 AM
i think, altho this is off the top of my head, that i was the ghost and became the golden becos it probably got me some sort of place in the family. my brother (eldest) and my sister (middle) were always problematic kids, and i was the 'good' one.

...I, too, feel I was (am?) a combination of the ghost/golden child. Causing a fuss wouldn't get me the attention I yearned for so I became the generous, helpful, low maintenance, getter of good grades, oblige the parents and follow the rules kind of kid. I remember once staying up late some night over summer vacation, cleaning the entire kitchen because I was bored and lonely and I thought it would bring me some praise. Of course when it was acknowledged I shrugged it off as though it meant nothing (God forbid I let anyone know I actually want them to care about me).

I also voted for caretaker because initially caretaker and golden child were one in the same for me. But the more I think about it the more I can see a subtle difference between them. I think it still suits me, though; I stick by my vote. Especially after my parents split, I felt like I picked up the mini mom role. I somehow decided it was my job to keep things organized and, likely more harmfully, it was my job to keep everyone happy and everything okay. The emotional caretaker.

I've been several depending on the years.

Growing up- my oldest sister was the golden, perfect child- smart, beautiful, popular and never did anything wrong. But when she was 21 she had a glass of wine, 2 weeks later she wanted a glass of wine and diagnosed herself as alcoholic and has gone to AA ever since, because she WANTED to have a glass of wine. She hasn't drank since she was 21 (she's 62 and has had 1 glass of wine in her life). She also has her Masters and has difficulties keeping a job because her supervisor's want to supervise her and she won't tolerate someone checking on what she does. She is more than controlling and will tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

My middle sister was the ghost- quiet, introverted, never did anything wrong she got caught doing- she drank and got high. She is 6 feet tall and has a small, quiet baby voice as she is sending me healing rays of light right after she slams me for doing everything I've done "wrong" since the age of 8 years old. She is the person who calmly tells my parents what they should be doing as the spokesperson for my sister.

Me- I was the scapegoat. I was the reason why the family had problems but I was the 'problem child' because I was the "wild child"- I snuck out at 2 in the morning to talk to my friends (all 3 of them)- but I didn't do drugs or drink. I skipped school so I could go to class with other people I knew in their schools. I was mean and hateful when I hit my 'perfect sister' in the nose with her mirror when she was singing "I am pretty, oh so pretty" the song from West Side Story. I was angry and I talked back forcing my dad to beat me (of course I forced him to beat me- right). Yes I was angry. Yes I acted out my anger. :blowup:

When I got older I became the golden child. I got 2 degrees graduating with the honors people get and was asked to join associations. I was a federal disaster nurse. I went to countries in Africa to give vaccines- my parents are "so proud of me"- garbage.   :righton:

I then again became the scapegoat-by exposing my dad's lies he has used all his life as an excuse for his actions. I ask for the truth- now why did dad really have to retire when he just turned 55 y/o because he could handle all the stress?
Problem child- I got a divorce from diagnosed psychopath/NP- my parents loved him at the time and now say they warned me of him for years. But I was overly emotional and needy. Now, I just a problem, in the way, causing problems for everyone. I'm crazy and unstable. 

Thank you for sharing that, tiggerd2.  :thumbup:

Quite a story, that FOO.  :thumbdown:
I can relate.

:hug:

Dutch Uncle
It's funny when my parents say they are so proud of me for what I've done because I see what other people do and it's so much more. My parents keep me in line with "it takes so much more to be a (hospice nurse, pediatric nurse, ER nurse, about any other nurse) than what I am.
I also can bring up things my oldest or middle sister does but I'm told -so, she--blah blah blah explanation.
I don't have a problem saying all the hurtful things I've done (well, yes I do but that's because guilt and shame- not because I don't want to take ownership for my actions)

I was the scapegoat till I became the problem child. They still tried to scapegoat me, but I refused to cooperate, went basically bat-sh*t crazy, calmed down for a few years then the child became the Hermit who never wanted to be around people again.

But I do caretake - always have - I used to caretake like Cinderella - cleaning the house, cooking etc - caring for my mother. Then that stopped. Was always a caretaker for animals. Now it is solely my cats and plants. And when I can - the environment. 

I prefer those "caretaking" qualities. Those are the one's which give me comfort.

Appologies for the confusion. Yes just to be clear, my parents assigned me the scapegoat and problem child.

I assigned myself the invisible child and golden child getting out of the house as much as I could and achieving at school so that I could leave home.

This is interesting. I always thought my family scapegoated me, but I hadn't realised that was a role I chose for myself. I tried to tell the truth for years. I'm still at it in fact. Oh dear. FOO did scapegoat me too, that's clear. They also treated me as one of 2 Problem Children, but that in my case (maybe not so much in my brother's case) was just a form of scapegoating. I was really innocent - no drugs, no alcohol, no late nights.

I also tried so hard to be a Helper, help others to see the truth for instance.

A number of therapists think I tried to be invisible, which is true too, come to think of it. I tried not to exist. Don't know if that fits your definition of Invisible Child though.

I was assigned both the Problem Child and the Scapegoat by my parents, in response I tried to become the Golden Child. So growing up  I was strange mix of all three.

from what i've learned, we can be all 6 of these roles at various times in our lives, depending on what the family (or other group we're involved in) calls for and needs.   i have been all these roles at one time or another.  i've switched, both in my family and with groups of friends.  i could be the clown/center of attention one minute, and invisible the next.  it all depended on what the 'party' needed me to be or what i felt comfortable with being. 

i was the perfect child, the truth teller, the entertainer, the addict, the rebel, and the invisible child in my family.   i could flow seamlessly from one to another.  with other groups of friends, i was whatever was needed to balance the group.  i was not a competitor, per se, so it didn't matter to me if someone else got the attention or was the 'bad' one or whatever.  i'd just fill the blank space.  i call it chameleon living.

I identify unequivocally as the Scapegoat. It still reverberates. I'm in a total mess now and pinning my hopes on trauma counselling that hasn't started yet... after about 35 years in the MH world and things getting worse all the time.

Thanks for starting this thread, DutchUncle.

Good luck, Candid. Hope your trauma counselling starts soon, and is supportive and helpful.

I was/am the lost child. No doubt in my mind. I never asked for anything, never needed anything. Just wanted to be alone. Being invisible was safe. Asking for things was dangerous. (I still struggle with that!)
Although...now that I think about it, I wonder if at times (when none of my siblings could measure up to dad's standard of golden-child-ness) I was the golden child because I was so low maintenance.
This opened my eyes a lot more than I was expecting...

I know I was the caretaker, I didn't always want to be, but it allowed me to attempt to make some sense out of the insanity around me by controlling things such as caring for my narcissistic sick parents, my narcissistic sick brother and cleaning, doing bills and making health care decisions before I was even a legal adult. My parents relied on me never to get sick myself or get hurt (hard to do when you're being beaten) and if I did it was too bad.  I could just die as long as I was not caring for them.  They used to tell me to die. I am still a caretaker to this day but realizing how very tired of it I am. If I had died as a teen I feel no one would have missed me.

I feel like I was put into different roles depending on the need of the FOO. The most predominant is caretaker and mascot. But scapegoat was a common one as well.

I actually feel like i am all six. and just kind of took on each role as i grew up.

i think i'm most dominantly the caretaker combined with the invisible child (i feel for me that goes hand in hand with me being fawn-freeze). then quickly became the problem child in middle school as that's when i got in trouble for a lot of "rebelliousness"  but mostly petty things.

definitely the mascot which Ive been calling The Entertainer role almost in a way of trying to not be the golden child which was easy if you have parents who are ableist to their son with a speech impediment. and of course invisible i very much kept to myself if i wasnt performing other roles, and wanted to have as few needs as possible and become self sufficient by the time i was 10. all problems whether bullying or school or complicated emotions stayed with me until recently.

i wonder still at what point i'll be able to fulfill all these roles for myself and not everyone else.

This was really helpful and at the same time a lot to take in as had never considered before that I have been most of these bar the clown.  My narc sister claimed that role and FOO loved to point out my seriousness and gloomy countenance whenever they could.  Yet my sense of humour is one of my best assets...  :cheer: 

Had puzzled over the last few years.. which am I??  of course, doh- now it makes sense. I was whatever they needed me to be the most at that time!   :woohoo:  yay for a little more clarity!! 

The Scapegoat, the Black Sheep, that was the first role I read about, it made so much sense. I was always the one to ask questions, point out inconsistencies

Even now people notice that I ask questions, whether it is the Q no one dared ask, or the one no one wants to answer. But, if I dared, I would do it more.

I also put the Invisible Child, because I could disappear for hours with a book, a daydream. I seem to be invisible to some people, they just do not see me, or hear me. I am adept at blending into the background, mainly to escape the attention of anyone, whether it is positive or negative attention, I cannot cope with attention, and yet, sometimes I crave attention, to get my plight noticed, to get my Q answered. For someone to validate me, instead of just telling me I am difficult, or make them uncomfortable.