This is ruining my life. My life revolves around my eating rules and when I break them I'm a mess. The worst part is, lately my rules aren't even healthy. I used to have good rules and I was fit and healthy. Now I have rules that include a lot of fat. I haven't been exercising and my endurance is terrible. My day is ruined today because I feel terrible about what I ate yesterday and today. I'm getting fat and I have no energy.
I think I hate myself. I try to break out of that self talk and get to a deeper truth about maybe being angry at my mom or something but I'm blocked. I could just fixate on the eating for now as a behavioral problem and deal with the causes later. I feel like, though, I'm going to sabotage something. If I fix my eating I'll just ruin something else.
I dont't hear about eating disorders much here so I thought I'd ask.
Yes I very strongly agree eating disorders is closely related to cPTSD. It's about control.
I don't know your situation but in most cases the trauma leading to cPTSD also left you feeling without control, your control was taken away, you were subjected to some kind of abuse without your choice as a child. We were children, we had no choice but to stay with our caregivers for the sake of survival and try to figure out how to cope with the abuse. We may have even stayed long past the legal age to leave by then having a host of reasons for staying.
Google eating disorder and cPTSD for more information. In my expertise if you don't address the underlying reason for the eating disorder, that of control, you will not completely conquer the disorder. Anything else will be a bandaid. It's not about the food, it's about control. What's so insidious is you're handing over control to your body and mind and still subjecting yourself to something you don't want to so you're still not in control.
omg i really relate to this thing. i don't think i have an eating disorder, but i definitely comfort eat. and becos of my meds i am not more overweight than i have ever been. and still i eat. even when i don't want it. don't need it, am not even hungry. it's like a compulsion to have something in my mouth. and it makes me feel momentarily better. then absolute s....t.
I will look this up.
I'm just mulling over this though. What is controlling me. What do I confront. It used to be my parents now it's some part of me.
go for it, i am interested too.
I think I feel guilty for taking control of my life. Lately I've been organizing my house and doing things my way and I've become very structured in my day to day living. I try to be healthy. But then I feel guilty and picture my mom laughing at me so I punish myself by eating say a bag of marshmallows. It's a compromise because it's fat free but also basically crap. So I tell my good self that I'm following the rules but I tell my guilty self that I'm also punishing myself.
Seems like every time I made a decision my mom would laugh the way you might laugh at a toddler trying on moms shoes or trying to sweep the floor. Or when we laugh at a dog that "thinks he's people". I'm almost 50 now. This is stupid.
Quote from: tired on September 20, 2015, 03:16:53 PM
It's a compromise because it's fat free but also basically crap.
Sorry to barge in, but the crazy talk we have with ourselves no? I LOL'd.
I know this so well. I'm looking for the least harmful way to punish myself. But there HAS to be that element of punishment in it. If essentially there is nothing wrong with it, I'll invent something so at least it can be frowned upon from some angle.
I feel like there is a little toddler inside me that keeps throwing these tantrums and the more I try to get better and take charge, the more the tantrums escalate. And as they escalate they start to sound silly. I guess the toddler is getting desperate.
Sounds a lot like my mom actually; when she came over last, two years ago, she was at her most ridiculous. I was all proud of myself and I couldn't wait for her to see my house for the first time since I got divorced. I was super excited, telling her what my life was like, showing her around. "Look, here is my own kitchen! Look, I have a couch!" She just couldn't handle it-I was so different from who I was and she spent the entire week complaining about it in the most outrageous ways. She accused me of things that were horrifiying but if I wrote it down it would make for some great comedy. It's a funny story I've told a bunch of times and I might give myself away if I gave details.
I went nc after that but I guess I took over her role.
Laughing at it sort of makes it better. What's even funnier about the marshmallows is how mad I got at myself for eating them. I mean big deal, so I ate crap. All of America is getting fat and I'm beating myself up about losing control. As if I'm somehow superhuman and have to be better than everyone else. I hate talking about my eating problems because I imagine that I'm a weird eater and therefore special so I keep it a secret. But really it's not special. It's typical. I do what most people do-I try to be healthy but I don't always succeed because the grocery stores are stocked with junk food that looks fun. So what.
It makes me feel like I have nothing to offer though. And it makes me feel like I have nothing that is just mine. Something that's private and interesting, like a magical power. My mom made me feel useless. Once I tried to sell Mary Kay which really isn't such a big deal but she said I wasn't cut out to have my own business. She said I should focus on making a man take care of me so I wouldn't have to do anything.
Quote from: tired on September 20, 2015, 09:44:54 PM
She said I should focus on making a man take care of me so I wouldn't have to do anything.
:thumbdown: That is SO disempowering :thumbdown:
And I can relate. Also with the story about your new house. :thumbdown:
:hug: , you're taking excellent care of yourself. F.e. setting up your own house after your divorce. :thumbup:
Tired-
I really love and appreciate the way in which you recognized that those of us who comfort-eat or indulge in junk (at least sometimes) are doing what many people do. That's not the thing the makes us special. Maybe the reasons we do the behaviors are special, and you are doing a fine job of processing your own past and deciphering what is yours to own and what belongs to others (such as your Mother).
Kudos!
Jdog: thank you. I tend to believe based on observations that we do a lot of similar things as humans. We have different reasons, although deep down I suppose the reasons have common threads since we're all kind of in the same boat.
DutchUncle: My mom sees me as an extension of herself so if she feels like she has no power, she likes to think I'm the same. She has no sense that I'm a different person in a different world. She doesn't have hopes that I will be better than her and doesn't want me to be. She doesn't want to see me as separate and even once said "we are the same person". If I show that I'm clearly better, in some way, and she can't argue with it, she gets depressed and talks about herself instead of congratulating me. She'll talk about how she wants what I have. That's not a mother.
I remember times when she would make a meal for me and we would eat together, or we would go to a local coffee shop for a burger. These were some of my good memories of her. She would talk about how delicious the meal was and if she made it herself she would congratulate herself. It was fun, watching someone enjoy food so much. But looking back, I can see she was completely self absorbed. She would say things like, try this, it's fantastic and healthy, but she would never ask me what I wanted. It was like watching an entertaining television show; very entertaining but completely one sided. Maybe that's why everyone else loves her, the way you would love a tv celebrity.
I don't know if this is relevant but she also had most of her stomach removed because of ulcers and she could never eat a lot. She would eat too much sometimes and feel bloated and uncomfortable. She couldn't eat sweets at all and mostly loved things like beef and vegetable stew that she was supposed to eat. She was very health conscious. She considered healthy eating to be part of being educated and cultured. She showed a low opinion of people who ate junk food like my older sister, who was heavy. My sister worked at a Dunkin Donuts when she was 14 because she was responsible and did well in school (she also took care of us while my mom went off on her vacations or whatever it is she did). My mother was jealous of my sister's success in work and school and I think used her weight issues as a way to put her down to even the score. Who knows how lean my mom would have been if she had a normal stomach. Interestingly my sister ended up having bariatric surgery.
My mom valued appearances and the celebrities of her time, the elegant movie stars with tailored suits and heels and wealthy husbands. Her family was wealthy but as the youngest of many children she didn't get the advantages of private schools like her older sisters and she wasn't as pretty.
Tired-
What an interesting connection- Mothers and food. My Mother was perpetually on a diet when I was a kid, and as it was the 1960's there was heavy emphasis upon cottage cheese and grapefruit. She also treated me as somewhat of an extension of herself, the little overachiever that got better grades than she had, etc. and part of being her extension was eating just like her. Later, I think I rebelled by eating things she didn't like (this is probably normal) and food has always been my escape.
Now that I am 56 and tackling both codependence and cptsd, the layers of the onion are peeling away and revealing me to myself. I wish I didn't have food issues, and am a "lifetime" member of Weight Watchers as well as a very committed runner. But I can out eat my running (anyone can) and have to commit myself daily to not only tracking my food intake but also being kind to myself when I overdo it. It's exhausting, that's for sure.
Anyway, I appreciate the discussion here. It touches me at my very core, and reading about others' food struggles and the pain behind them helps me understand that I am in good company here.
Take good care.
What a complicated situation with your mom and food during your upbringing, Tired.
And even most unnerving: nowadays as well.
I see my female parent reflected in a lot you have written.
I too have a complicated relationship with her with food as a go between. She's always bothered about my eating. And I must say, I have developed a complicated relationship with food over the years.
Interestingly enough, I cooked for my parents the last two years of secondary school. Now, which boy (age 17-19) would do that? I cooked two or three meals a week, for which I often had to go home to make diner while hanging out with friends after school.
I didn't mind. It had to do with my female parent working more ours outdoors at some point, and on the other hand that I thought: "I'll be moving out in a year or two, learning to cook will probably serve me well." So I offered myself to cook the days she would work late.
All fine and dandy one would think, but as soon as I moved out of the house, she became very worried, and most visits to my dorm (and later the squat) she would say "Oh boy, you look so skinny, do you eat well enough?". Well, of course I did, she knew I could cook, and in fact everybody at he dorm and squat did cook. We had an excellent system where everybody would cook at least once a week (we would sign in when we would cook, so everybody could fit it in reasonably well with study demands.) And really, if you only have to cook once a week, it's not a burden to cook something nice. So people tended to put quite some effort in their meals.
Questioning my nutrition has been par of the course ever since. And I have become nervous about it as a result, I dare say. I have to consciously tell me regularly: "This is healthy-enough stuff Uncle, despite what she says. You have a well balanced diet. And yeah, you can have a pizza once in a while, or a super-duper greasy gravy. Yummy"
It has taken the fun of cooking though, I should try to find the fun in it again.
edited to add:
I used to be a difficult eater. To the point where I, as a small boy (8?), had to get small rewards for finishing my plate.
This was probably due to the ever tense atmosphere at the diner table.
A few years ago my brother told me that when I was a toddler I was forced to keep at the table to eat my, by then stone cold, diner until it was all eaten, and I would cry my eyes out. "So sorry/pityful/painful it was to see that, I remember well", he said with a grief stricken face.
I suppose it makes sense that we attempt to use eating as a means of regaining control. We imagine that no one can actually control what goes down.
I'm a fitness trainer and I wonder how I can help people with emotional eating or if I should stay out of it altogether. I'm asked to help with diet a lot. I usually do more asking questions, like "how was your diet today, in your opinion". I also suggest people write down what they eat and either share with me or not; I figure just writing it is usually going to be enough. Occasionally people don't know what is healthy and what isn't but that's rare. I've been depressed about clients dropping out lately and I wonder often if they get upset about their eating and avoid me. I ran out of money already this month and I'm frustrated that no one wants my help for training and I feel fat and I feel like a failure.
I already posted this elsewhere, but I think for those who want to have a laugh regarding the sometimes hilarious claims on what's supposedly bad for you, in the first minute of this clip some guy rants over the issue whether or not milk and bread are actually good or bad for you:
David Mitchel's angry logic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6vLp07ZePY
QuoteI feel fat and I feel like a failure
you know, i just realised something reading that phrase. that for me fat and failure go together. also, cruel words like 'ugly', 'disgusting', 'unloveable'. and that since i have been on mirtazipine and gained 2 and a half stones (that's about 35 - 40 lbs i think), my body image has nosedived . to the point that i am coming off those meds and going back to the one i was on before. i know that it doesn't work as well for me but i can't bear myself like this. and despite my best efforts at the gym and all, i can't shift the weight. i feel horrible. and guilty about everything that goes in my mouth. especially if it's 'not healthy'. it makes me hate myself even more.
but in fact, the truth is that some of the most beautiful women i have met in my life have been what society calls 'big'. some really big. and they have been feisty and fun and successful and totally comfortable with themselves. so it's not like i haven't had good role models. and it's not like my FOO had issues with food, not at all really, nor my kids - my lad was a fussy eater becos of a stomach problem as a baby but we never made a thing of it, just poked multivits into him when we thought he needed them (funny, he's now a chef! and actually enjoys
green stuff, miracle!). so, why am i so hung up on it now?? i never had this before.
sigh...i guess it's just another button for the inner critic to press relentlessly. :'(
i love that guy!
It's because the extra weight has a very clear cause in my case. It's a result of my decision to eat large amounts of macaroni and cheese, pizza, bread, pastry. Part of it was for pleasure, which is fine. But the rest, the majority of the amount of food, was to hurt myself and punish myself. I consider it a failure of the mind that I couldn't just let myself eat for pleasure then stop when I was full. My failure is the binging to the point of pain. I can't be sure, but I would guess that if I ate normally, meaning mostly healthy but allowed myself a small amount of fun food, I wouldn't feel like a failure regardless of the weight. I look at people with extra weight and think, they have a layer of fun. I imagine they gained it because they have healthy social lives, and know how to enjoy life. I don't. I do everything wrong. I'm not even pleasantly plump, I don't look good. I look at people with extra weight and they look proportional and cute and I don't. I just look like I have a bloated belly. I see heavy women running at the gym and I can't. I have no energy and I can't lift much. I'm a fraud really. I look fit, because I hide my gut under a jacket, and I'm not heavy really. But all those other women are healthier than I am. They don't know it.
Sorry I'm so whiny. ugh.
Personally, and being a male, I have to tell you all that I like something to hold, thank you.
[disclaimer]This is not a 'come-on'. I'm unavailable. Too busy with myself.[/disclaimer]
See that's what I mean. I'm not even successfull at being pleasantly plump lol
D/U, :aaauuugh: :rofl:
heh heh, no one will ever get the chance with me, whatever size i am!!
it's not that, anyway.
this is an interesting, if somewhat challenging thread. there must be a way to process all this and come out feeling better about ourselves. ...without having to squeeze our long-suffering selves into size 6. the problem is an inside one and not an outside one.
Tired-
You likely know this already, but it's time to reframe your situation in such a way that you have a small thing you can tackle- nothing overwhelming or likely to cause defeatist reactions. Regaining control over something is a gradual process, but one that can be done in small bites (pardon the use of a food metaphor). What is one thing that you can alter in your approach? What small change might you make just for today?
Trite as it sounds, the only failure is giving up altogether. You don't sound like a quitter to me. You are enough just as you are, and don't have to keep proving your worth to the world. How would it feel to know that you are doing your best in this moment?
I'm the opposite of a quitter. Sometimes I wonder about my sanity when I just keep going in the face of ridiculous obstacles! You could say I quit a thousand times a day but get right back up over and over.
You know, now that you put it that way, it makes me feel better when I decide to clean the house. It sounds boring but it's something I can do that is immediately useful and since I work from home it feels like I am doing something for my future. I tell myself, even if I don't have a client now, I can get ready because I never know when someone will show up.
Sometimes at the end of the day I go to bed early because I figure, I'm at my best early in the day so it makes sense to call it quits when I'm not productive.
When I think of one change I can make I have trouble because I think of long term goals and short term goals at the same time. I think I should make one change that will help me right now, today, and one that will help me in general. For example, right now I should have a glass of water because I'm dehydrated. But I should also brush my teeth. These sound like small things but they are the kinds of things that trip me up. Once I overcome those types of obstacles, basic basic care, I feel really capable of doing a lot. Maybe it's because I can do grown up things but I can't do the other stuff. Find my pajamas, go to the bathroom, get a drink, get under the covers.
Funny the things I start to realize once I start writing.
Good. Just keep writing.
Hi tired
Well - here goes my long and painful story in short form
Eating has always been an issue from as far back as I remember - I developed early on an addiction to sugar and fat and would orchestrate my life accordingly -
I went through some yrs ( remembering specifically being 7 I wouldn't eat 'normal food ' my mother would give me baby food in jars ( I look back now and it was the sugar in them I was after -
Into my teens I began mini binges and would look forward so much to them - time away from life and feeling good -
My addictions ran with alcohol for many yrs until my rock bottom 5 yrs ago and started working AA program - I stopped drugs too thank you to 12 step -
However my eating got worse - the disease progressed - I ended being fully obsessed and bingeing on carrier bag of flour/ fat / sugar
It was * - in March this year I felt truly insane and joined FA and its been life changing - I have nearly 6 mths abstinence and lost 3 stone ( bonus ) :) the real joy is I am free of that horrible way of life and the damage it was causing me on so many levels -
I always knew my self worth was low but now I can see just how low -
The food addiction robbed me of a lot - it started as a bit of comfort and ended in psychological *
I couldn't even sort it out on my own and I feel eternally grateful that I found other recovered people who could help me -
I'm learning I have problems and how to deal with them
I am waking up to just how frightened I am of life people situations and my own mental states and I am learning to share and work through them to be a more stable and authentic person who can enjoy life and all it has to offer
I know the desperation and self beating you speak of I also know as you say self beating does nothing worthwhile .
Finding emotional relief in food has in some ways saved me its just that things got worse over time and I can see it needed to so that I could hold my hands up and say 'I can't do this anymore '
From what I gather food issues and mother issues go hand in hand -
Now I don't have a food or mother issue :) !!
Just for today I am free
Go find your freedom sounds like you are closer to being ready
Go easy and find your path
Boatsetsailrose: Hearing your story helps me so much as painful as it is. I don't know what it is but hearing the details of what someone else does makes me feel less crazy. It's one thing to say I have an eating disorder but to admit the weirdness is hard. So thank you.
I've done better the last few days and I wonder if it's because I started talking about it? I don't know. I just lost interest a little. But it comes and goes, and I obsess about one thing or another and the last few days food hasn't been the big obsession. I've also been drinking juice a lot to get my mind off food. I don't know if this is a great strategy. Honestly I don't know how people get over this. But maybe it's all in my head.... Lately I haven't had nightmares and I've been sleeping better. I have normal dreams. Even if I watch scary documentaries I still have mundane dreams about regular life. I slept through my alarm for the first time yesterday and realized, wow I slept through the night. That never happens.
It seems so obvious to say this but I wonder if just talking about things is the answer and I haven't talked about certain things. Who would I tell? Yeah I had a therapist but it's too hard. I didn't trust him. I did, rationally, but emotionally at a gut level I didn't.
Yes food is but a symptom - or for me shopping / obsessing about books / being in control ocd type symptoms / obsession is the mental Problem to help me out of being with myself now I have Learnt -
If I have this or do that I will get some ease and comfort - I'm learning that addictive behaviour is not ease and comfort -
I deleted my face book account because I was obsessively checking it -
Sitting with myself and other people and learning to breathe is a new experience :)
Re quote 'talking about things is the answer and I haven't talked about things. Who would I tell ?
For me talking is exactly what has always helped me and continues to help me. I can't do it alone -
It's taken time - ( I am 42 yrs ) to be able to sit with ANYONE and look them in the eye --
Yes trust is a big one for us - I mean it would be wouldn't it seeing where we came from -
I self referred to a psychology service in the UK this yr and was so grateful to be assigned a child trauma therapist - she was amazing to work with - I trusted her, she was similar age ( all my previous therapists of chosen were older ) and I could relate to her in the hear and now -
I came a long way in those sessions -
I've spent 20 yrs talking about things in various forms and I shall continue to till I take my last breath
Cptsd has affected every cell in my body and I have been through * with my mental health -
I finally feel I am finding some true stability in myself - ( with some shakey days )
Doing life without addiction gives me the full chance to be in this body with all that goes on in it -
Sometimes I feel like a child in an adult body - I look around and go gee I'm a responsible adult and I feel like the scared child I did all those yrs ago -
It's been my world when I've entered with other human beings and I've got honest about what goes on in me ( shameful or not ) that has provided healing one cell at a time -
Maybe you could start by talking to your doctor ? Or finding an agency that provides support for child trauma ?
Whatever u decide fear will be there in sure but in my experience it's better than sitting alone with in -
Tell who ever u speak to that you don't trust and what ever other challenges u are experiencing -
Pretending used to be my default setting - even with therapists and learning to be myself has taken lots of practice
So hard to talk about childhood trauma. I might talk to a social worker (cheaper) and see. I don't know. I don't know if I can.
I have ocd and I tend to make up silly eating rules so I'm trying to channel the ocd into something useful. Like, better rules about food, or just rules about other things that are useful. For example, if I get obsessed about keeping the books all in order, it's not going to harm me and it will be something to obsess about and I get the added plus of an orderly bookshelf. I sit and imagine myself cleaning the house and turn it into a strong compulsion. Because I know I'm going to obsess about something.
I've had eating disorders my entire life. I used to hoard food as a child, then became obese, then anorexic, then bulimic. After I had my kid things kind of evened out - I no longer purge, but do emotionally eat - healthy stuff though.
Quote from: tired on September 16, 2015, 05:08:05 PM
This is ruining my life. My life revolves around my eating rules and when I break them I'm a mess. The worst part is, lately my rules aren't even healthy. I used to have good rules and I was fit and healthy. Now I have rules that include a lot of fat. I haven't been exercising and my endurance is terrible. My day is ruined today because I feel terrible about what I ate yesterday and today. I'm getting fat and I have no energy.
I think I hate myself. I try to break out of that self talk and get to a deeper truth about maybe being angry at my mom or something but I'm blocked. I could just fixate on the eating for now as a behavioral problem and deal with the causes later. I feel like, though, I'm going to sabotage something. If I fix my eating I'll just ruin something else.
I dont't hear about eating disorders much here so I thought I'd ask.
The turning point in my mind about the whole anorexia/bulimia thing happened due to some very kind and gentle therapist who served as a mirror to me, mirroring back the positive soul qualities I had til I started to believe her - that those qualities were inside. I never knew I had those qualities before. I thought I was never deserving of nurturing. But that really did turn things around - coupled with the oxytocin of the pregnancy - which studies have found are directly correlated to healing ED. There's a good coach online https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChtz2bLx19O5lZ0PuCsFt3w check her out.
missbliss: I might think more about the oxytocin. Funny how simple things make a big difference but we don't think about it. Being single and isolated maybe I don't get some normal nurturing that is a necessary part of day to day life. I just had a fitness client and when she left she gave me a hug and I realized I don't get hugs very often. Just an odd thing. I guess I have a cat that is very relaxing to hold.
For a long time I was allowing myself to emotionally eat but only healthy food then I changed my rule. I had this idea that I wanted someone to cook for me so I would drive through and get whatever one gets at a drive through. Not that the lady handing me a burger out of a window actually prepared it special for me. But for a split second it felt like that.
This week I'm trying to get back into healthy food binge or not. I made hummus, which is a lot of carbs and fat and feels very comforting without being junk food.
I haven't eaten much all week, mostly juice, but tomorrow is my "big eating day" and I think I'll watch the videos when I'm eating.