October 25th and the first day of my journal.
It's a good day to start as I've had an fairly good EF which started yesterday and rolled on over into today. I want to capture here what I wrote in a post in another forum:
Yesterday morning at 6 AM our time, Ottawa called to tell my H that his file had made it to the pensions office (he retired from the Cdn Army in Jun and we have been chasing his file from level to level), and that it would take another 2 months to process. Are you f****** kidding us?! Wham, right into a huge angry EF, not at my H (although there was some of that), but at the big bureaucratic machine that is the CF and which doesn't always respond to individuals as it should. My H, always a positive kind of guy said something to the effect of "Well at least we know when we'll have our money." Undoubtedly he could not see my face in the dark.
So we have been without income for 4 full months and it will be another 2 before we see anything. Lovely. And tied to that is our medical and dental plan so anything not covered by the province will be on our hook until the plan kicks back in and it can be reimburse. I shot back into all the emotions I felt in my FOO over the ongoing unfairness they doled out and having to suck it up because I didn't have a choice when I was younger, and when I was older and did speak up how much punishment that rained down on me.
The CF has a "Depart with Dignity" program when any member retires and I have to say as an organization this whole pension business completely misses the mark - we are not the only ones who had long delays and that just should NOT be the case. Although it's not meant to be this not having the money we are owed and being told we'll have to wait another 2 months is not fair and feels like punishment I can do nothing about except suck it up.
Anyway, about the EF - I thought it would be good since I am in the throes of an angry EF to talk about it here. After my H told me (and there has been a lot of this kind of thing with the CF in the last 5 years in particular - bureaucratic nonsense that has ramifications for us), I had a whoosh kind of feeling, a detachment/ fogginess and deep anger. I felt like I couldn't think straight and I was just immersed in these awful feelings of being at someone else's mercy for my well-being, and such a deep frustration and anger that there was little that I could do (I did come up with a few things today but could not even think then).
And there was no soothing I wanted to try even though I knew I was flashing back, I just wanted to dissociate. So I took a sleeping pill and went back to bed. I only got up to take another sleeping pill last night (plus my daily meds) and went back to sleep until this morning. I woke up still feeling foggy and angry which is unusual as normally a day's worth of dissociating clears the clag of anger so to speak. So I talked with my H and told him what I thought we need to do - to get in touch with his last Commander and ask him to talk to Ottawa about expediting the file (he is reluctant because he was an officer and for him this is akin to complaining but he relented when I asked what he would do if it was one of his soldiers in this situation and he admitted he would go to bat for them). As for me, I decided to write a friend about what was going on and post here.
So what I need to do is "lift and separate" as the old Playtex bra commercial went lol. Lift up the blanket of old stuff and separate it from the situation today. Neither were fair but they are not really linked in any way other than my feeling powerless and anger when I am in a situation that is unfair and over which I have little control.
So my H and I have figured out what we will do about today's situation and I have a few thoughts about what I may myself do (contact the military ombudsman so this stops happening to retiring members), and as for the past I am thinking of writing an unsent letter to my FOO about all the unfairness I endured at their hands and how it felt not to have a voice or choice. Hopefully, all together this will move me out of the EF. I feel somewhat better already so tks for reading the rant!
I rarely if ever have talked about EFs to anyone and I'm so glad I did. Next time I hope to catch it before I end up dissociating for an entire day but at least it didn't go on and on like they can, and I did try and do something today when I woke up still angry. Yay me!
:hug:
I am so sorry you and your h are treated so unjustly! Where's the dignity in any of this?
I like your idea of writing to the ombudsman. It's a strong, positive action to take and hopefully will help that others won't have to suffer the same injustice as you are facing now.
As for the need to dissociate to deal with this EF: :hug:
Sometimes it's all there's left to do to be able to deal with things. There's no shame in it - sometimes losing a day to dissociation is what it takes to regroup and gather some strength (body and mind) to be able to deal with life again. For me, the gain is not in never dissociating any more, but in the lowering the frequency of having to use dissociation as a last resort.
You're a trooper, Kizzie - even in a situation like this you think of ways to help others. That's awesome! :applause:
Tks all, it sure feels like a betrayal at worst and a gap in the process at least - in any event the system needs a good kick in the butt so no-one goes through this in the future.
I like the idea of positive action too Keep Fighting, so often in my FOO it was all about retaliation, punishment, anger, even rage when any conflict arose. In this case least there are avenues for fixing a system that has a bit of a broken part at least. Wish it were so with PDs!
Tks everyone for your suggestions and support :thumbup: BeHealthy, we do have provincial medical coverage here, it's our extended coverage that isn't rolling yet so we have to pay for medications, certain services (psychologist or psychiatrist, physiotherapy, dental) and then submit a claim for reimbursement when the plan kicks in. So we will get a percentage back but it can be a lot out of pocket. Fortunately we have had the resources but after five months we're having to tap into some we don't want to and more to the point shouldn't have to. We do have someone at my H's last HQ advocating for us now so hopefully that will expedite the slowing moving machine that is the CF pension office. I am seeing a T at our local community health centre so that is covered and tk goodness for that, private ones are really expensive.
It really did feel like a betrayal, but I've used the "lift and separate" or Playtex bra technique and separated out what belongs in the past and the present so it is not sending me into an EF at least, I just have some annoyance and consternation which is understandable and a "normal" reaction imo.
I must admit I really hate being EF'd like that (hah, using EF as a verb now lol). I did not see it coming and it flattened me so it makes getting on with some IC work so I am aware of my triggers all that much more important.
Onward!
Kizzy,
I don't know about Canada, but in USA when we have problems like that We call on or e-Mail our local congressman. Even IF congress IS in session, every Congressman has a secretary and an Office in their district. They seem to have some kind of pull... even IF it is a good OLE BOY thing! :blink: :blink:
May the good Lord take care of Your needs!
Keep on Keeping on! :hug: :bighug:
Thanks BadMemories, I am going to get ahold of our military ombudsman's office and start the ball rolling there. We had word yesterday from my H's last HQ that they are are trying to get my H's file expedited at the CF Pension office so fingers crossed it will not drag on for another 2 months as they originally told us.
Love those hugs! Backatcha :hug:
So tomorrow I see my T for the third time and it is not without some trepidation because I know we will be doing more IC work and frankly it scares me. I can intellectualize about IC work until the cows come home, but getting in there and feeling it - GAK!
Anyway, in thinking about tomorrow's appointment I suddenly realized that the big angry EF I had about 10 days ago was two days after my second appt with him. Why I did not see that it contributed to that EF (and he had warned me that there might be some fallout) I have no idea, but I missed it. No wonder the EF came on so quickly and strongly and that all I wanted to do was dissociate, my IC was closer to the surface. I knew that the past was layering over the present in that EF (yay, progress!), but was more than a little concerned about why it was so intense (i.e., I don't want to be knocked to my knees like that, so "suddenly" and seemingly without warning).
A little epiphany but an important one and I shall try to be more aware of IC triggers after this next appointment given she's peeking out from behind the wall more.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
I hope things went well Kizzie, positive thoughts your way!
Tks for the TLC! Actually therapy went much better than expected, but support is always good :thumbup:
I told my T about my angry EF and instead of IC work this session we did some CBT, mindfulness and mediation. Phew, I was not looking forward to jostling my IC again, especially with work being so busy right now. I am really pleased that T did not push but is instead helping me to build skills that will help with grounding/soothing myself. I think this skill building is essential as I am starting to feel the feelings I have stuffed and run from for so long.
Underneath the anger and fear is a cold grayness which I think is the abandonment depression Walker talks about - scares me so much as I feel like if I acknowledge it it will drag me under and that this is what I've been running from (going under). Cat recently reminded me (and tks so much for doing so Cat), that these EFs can actually represent recovery rather than being in that same old place of being overwhelmed by feelings and ghosts from the past. Walker talks a lot about this, about holding steady through the EFs as they will become less intense, and fewer and fewer. I hope he's right. It's one thing reading that and another going through them, that's for sure.
On the pension side of things (the trigger for my EF), my H's last HQ has gone to bat for us and our file will be expedited - huzzah!!! Once the $$ are flowing we will look at getting in touch with either Veteran's Affairs or the military ombudsman or both.
:party: Glad to hear your file will be processed faster. Phew.
Small epiphanies which add up ;D
It's interesting that in not being on here as much, when I do pop in and read a bit I find I am having little epiphanies more often than not.
A couple of posts yesterday helped me to see clearly that much of my Social Anxiety comes from having been trained to be a prop in other people's plays, to respond to their needs and to submerge my self and my needs. In the past when I was around others I would begin to fade, to become opaque and to act as though I was in a play of sorts n which the script is everyone else's except mine. So, there's part of the reason for feeling like an imposter - oftentimes I was acting! (The other half of course has to do with overly high standards, perfectionism and not giving myself credit.)
Anyway, it takes a tremendous amount of energy to act rather than to be which goes a lon g way toward explaining the "function in public, collapse in private" reaction I have had on so many occasions in the past, social events in particular. I did not actually want to isolate myself from others and yet to be social was to lose my self, me - the proverbial rock and a hard place.
I think the clarity in reading posts also had to do with having a conversation about Kate Gosselin of all things (Kate Plus 8 reality show). I watched a show the other night and could not figure out why she triggered me (everything is so perfect) which I was telling my ever-so-patient H about, and then I realized, "The kids are props to her" just like I was in my PD FOO. My M was a stealth N and while everything looked fine on the outside, it was most definitely not fine for my B and I - we were merely actors in her play as Kate's kids are in hers.
The new medication I am on -- Celexa -- has really helped to damp that whole fading thing and because of that I am being much more authentic these days. Now that I have some real clarity on this aspect of my SA I will also try to be more invested in being the author of my life.
No more fading! :disappear:
Nov 18 PS - I actually bought crayons for my IC yesterday and am going to practice letting her be her authentic self.
Good for you, Kizzie! It's great you're having those epiphanies and I bet your inner child will be happy with the crayons. ;)
Hi, Kizzie,
glad you and your inner child are doing so well. ;D
Keep on spoiling the both of you. :cheer:
Cheers! kf
Thanks for the support and encouragement KF and Zazu :hug:
Update on the whole pension issue - we just heard back that my H's file has been expedited and we should see the money tap turn on this week or next. What a relief and just in time for Christmas - huzzah!
YEAH!!!!!!
Jingle money for the holidays. :yes:
Finally.........
Yes, we are going to get our jingle on that's for darn sure! :phoot:
Well, no jingle infortunately - the pension folks are still dithering!!!! Well, at least it didn't trigger another big EF. We and friends have done all that we can to push the big machine into moving more quickly but it continues to plod along - so be it. We do not have control beyond what we have already done so I'm (mostly) letting it go. Argh though :pissed:
Despite the $$$$ hiccup, we had a lovely holiday :yes:. My son heads back to university tomorrow so that's a bit of a downer :'( but we squeezed a lot in in the two weeks he was here so lots of great memories to keep us warm in the deep dark of winter.
Glad to hear it. And I hope the money issue gets cleared up soon so the waiting is over.
Tks Cat, I hope you feel a bit better now - the last post I read you were struggling a bit. The whole struggling thing gets old doesn't it? I've just had a period where I felt rested, happy and hopeful and when I look backward I see that it's one of the few times I have ever felt as at ease (despite no pension money STILL!).
Looking back I realize that OOTF and OOTS have made an enormous difference for me, and that I am actually seeing recovery beginning to take root. When I look back to the first post I made at OOTF I was so very deeply confused and upset, last year I struggled with drinking and big panic attacks and here finally is what feels like solid ground.
Since June (when my NPDM came for a visit) I have begun to feel, to believe that the NPDs in my life cannot pull the rug out from underneath me in real life, and the power of their ghosts is beginning to wane internally. Even the cold, gray, bleak depression I was feeling upon wakening or going to sleep has started to morph more into something akin to assertiveness and more of a sense of certainty about my rights and boundaries. I think this is the abandonment depression Walker talks about beginning to turn outward into more of a healthy anger than hot anger.
Anyway, I know I will continue to struggle, to have EFs, to dissociate, to be depressed and so on, but I suspect this will be less intensely and often than in the past, and that life will not be as much of a struggle as it has been. Huzzah!
Thanks to all of you for being such an important part of my journey :hug:
What an upbeat and positive post - great to hear, Kizzie! Congrats on making positive strides.
Yay! :phoot: :bighug: And thanks again for starting this forum. It's made an enormous difference for me too.
Quote from: Kizzie on January 06, 2015, 07:04:03 PM
Looking back I realize that OOTF and OOTS have made an enormous difference for me, and that I am actually seeing recovery beginning to take root. When I look back to the first post I made at OOTF I was so very deeply confused and upset, last year I struggled with drinking and big panic attacks and here finally is what feels like solid ground.
Since June (when my NPDM came for a visit) I have begun to feel, to believe that the NPDs in my life cannot pull the rug out from underneath me in real life, and the power of their ghosts is beginning to wane internally. Even the cold, gray, bleak depression I was feeling upon wakening or going to sleep has started to morph more into something akin to assertiveness and more of a sense of certainty about my rights and boundaries. I think this is the abandonment depression Walker talks about beginning to turn outward into more of a healthy anger than hot anger.
I think that being a part of OOTS puts a dent in the "power of the ghosts." As in: "Ha, you ghosts, I am not alone any more. There are lots of others who understand and care about me!"
Really well put WB! :thumbup:
Ghostbusters!
Quote from: Kizzie on January 06, 2015, 07:04:03 PM
Looking back I realize that OOTF and OOTS have made an enormous difference for me, and that I am actually seeing recovery beginning to take root. When I look back to the first post I made at OOTF I was so very deeply confused and upset, last year I struggled with drinking and big panic attacks and here finally is what feels like solid ground.
[...]
Anyway, I know I will continue to struggle, to have EFs, to dissociate, to be depressed and so on, but I suspect this will be less intensely and often than in the past, and that life will not be as much of a struggle as it has been. Huzzah!
Thanks to all of you for being such an important part of my journey :hug:
Glad you're doing well, Kizzie! I hope your money will arrive soon - soooo frustrating to have to wait for what is rightfully yours... :hug:
Your writing describes so accurately what OOTF and OOTS have taught me: To have realistic expectations of myself and my healing. When I started on OOTF, my main (subconscious) goal was to make my CPTSD go away and now I realize that I was chasing a very romanticized and unrealistic dream: A place where I could be free of CPTSD and happy all the time. Through the discussions on OOTF and OOTS I have learned that my CPTSD will never go away but that I have the power to reduce the size of the piece of my life that is overshadowed by it. I stopped wanting the impossible and replaced it with the knowledge that though there will be EFs, meltdowns and dark days in my future, I will be able to survive them - and I don't have to face them alone any more, either. :bighug:
Quote from: Kizzie on January 06, 2015, 07:04:03 PM
The whole struggling thing gets old doesn't it?
[...]
Anyway, I know I will continue to struggle, to have EFs, to dissociate, to be depressed and so on, but I suspect this will be less intensely and often than in the past, and that life will not be as much of a struggle as it has been. Huzzah!
You may struggle - but in doing so you've also grown a lot of new 'muscles' :woohoo:.
Best wishes! kf
KF - That's a great way of looking at recovery; that is, learning to reuse muscles or use some for the first time. OMG, I am going to have such a "buff brain" lol. :yes:
Jan 9th - So last night I went to the African drumming class that I was taking in the fall and what fun to be back! I was the only beginner there, and everyone knew one another but they were so welcoming my Social Anxiety pinged but did not cause me to run from the room as it might have even 6 months ago. Huzzah!
The instructor gave me a big hug when I walked in (they are a hugging kind of group), the class gave me a round of applause at the end of class because I was able to keep up with the style of drumming we are learning (Black Mamba). and I ended up being given a drum to take home to practice on. My H laughed when he saw me hauling it out to the car ;D He seems to get a real kick out of my hobby and said on the way home how nice it was to see me having so much fun.
Truth be told I am a little uneasy on some level, but I'm not beating myself up about that. I accept that I will be based on my past, but I am also aware that fun is healthy and nothing bad is going to happen. I want to have this experience, to have fun and what better group to try out some of these tiny nuggets of healthy thinking and feeling? They are friendly, welcoming, and encouraging so there is nor real danger and I can focus on the positive things it brings to my life. Anyway, if I can manage to learn all the rhythms I can perform with the troupe - again, unthinkable not all that long ago, but within the realm of possibility now.
Recovery is hard but so worth it :yes:
Kizzie, I am so happy for you! ;D
Tks WhoBuddy, it's great after such a bad year last year to be writing about positive things - finally!
Jan 19th and my H's pension FINALLY came in, 8 looooong months after he retired. OK maybe I'm stating that from a half empty glass perspective when it's a full glass kind of day ;D All the back pay is in, his pension will come regularly now and out medical and dental extended care plans will be reinstated.
While I really did not like the big EF I had over this whole issue in Nov I did learn from it. I clearly saw just how much of my past overlays present day situations and eventually I was able to separate the two. That was then (my parents did not take care of me and there was nothing I could do about it), and this is now (the CF Pension dept is a big bureaucratic machine that is a bit broken and we will be writing the Ombudsman/Pension Dept/Veteran's Affairs so maybe this will not happen to anyone else). In the end I was merely annoyed and frustrated as opposed to feeling like the world was conspiring against me - feels like a big step.
Congratulations! :waveline: Thank goodness it's finally over.
Tks Cat, it is such a relief.
There is a very common trigger that I have – milder nowadays but still a trigger. When someone does not get back to me fairly quickly about something that might be an issue, I read the silence as dangerous. For example, I had to cancel a therapy appointment the day before I was to go. I left two messages and sent a text to my T but did not hear back from him for about 10 days or so. I thought he was being punitive for cancelling the day before, playing head games or whatever. My H pointed this out and the fact that I tend to do this when confronted with this type of situation; that is, I immediately assume the worst and think I am being punished for something. Hunh. It turned out my T had been promoted and had had to move offices from one town to another and was simply really busy and caught up with all of that.
Anyway, I pondered away on what my H had pointed out -- and *'s bells it's no wonder I am uncomfortable when this type of thing happens. My NPDM used the silent treatment as a punishment or to signal that some big emotional drama was about to rain down upon me. Oftentimes I did not see it coming and wham! Other times it was because I spoke up or did something that displeased her. Either way it was a signal that the floodgates to a period of punishment (abuse) were about to open and until I was back in her good graces I would be made to suffer. Silences have meant I cannot pay attention to my life and instead must focus on imminent danger. So, I have absolutely dreaded this type of silence, take it personally and assume the worst because that's what happened in the past; it was about me. I could safely assume the silence meant trouble coming my way, that I would end up being awash in shame and guilt, and would need to use my resources to ride out the storm.
These days, however, the really intense EFs aren't happening as much in this type of situation and hooray for that :yes:. When my T didn't call back I was uneasy, but thought "Well if he is being punitive he is not the T for me" (or anyone for that matter). It wasn't about me, it was about him, and that felts great, like I stepped back and put some distance between myself and him, and that if he was unsafe I would terminate therapy.
Checking things out here and being LC/NC with PD FOO has helped me to step back and be much more grounded. In the space that used to be filled with PD craziness (then and now), there is more energy to see and feel things as they are, not as they were. I am beginning to see/feel that the threat level is not as high as it was when I was a child. In the past my safety and well-being definitely depended on my being able to read the environment and when silence did signal something awful, and to work my way out from under some sentence that my M handed down. Now I am beginning to check out what I am thinking/feeling ("How can I think/feel differently about this?), and trying to see whether and how the past is overlaying the present. And wow does it ever! Just knowing that feels like a big step forward in recovery as I seem to have gone from more intense EFs to milder ones in this type of situation.
Quote from: Kizzie on January 31, 2015, 10:41:33 PM
There is a very common trigger that I have – milder nowadays but still a trigger. When someone does not get back to me fairly quickly about something that might be an issue, I read the silence as dangerous...My H pointed this out and the fact that I tend to do this when confronted with this type of situation; that is, I immediately assume the worst and think I am being punished for something.
In the past my safety and well-being definitely depended on my being able to read the environment and when silence did signal something awful, and to work my way out from under some sentence that my M handed down.
I can identify with this a great deal. At my work, if my boss wants to talk to me, I think the worst. Like being called into the principal's office as a child when you have done something wrong. I begin to shake all over. I have been at this job for 14 years and they seem to think highly of me so there is really no reality to the fear. But it is very real to me.
I still cringe when someone calls my name. I jump and startle. Not having my name called unless I was in trouble as a child. So many years later, this reflex still exists.
Also, you talk of "reading the environment." I had to learn to do that every morning to see if I would be attacked (mostly verbally) or just ignored and plan my day accordingly. Is this what they call hypervigilant? Do you still carry tension in your muscles like I do?
Quote from: Kizzie on January 31, 2015, 10:41:33 PM
There is a very common trigger that I have – milder nowadays but still a trigger. When someone does not get back to me fairly quickly about something that might be an issue, I read the silence as dangerous. For example, I had to cancel a therapy appointment the day before I was to go. I left two messages and sent a text to my T but did not hear back from him for about 10 days or so. I thought he was being punitive for cancelling the day before, playing head games or whatever.
Same trigger...
It speaks volumes of the kind of 'love' your parents gave you and the methods they used to control you.
Glad it turned out there was a perfectly innocent explanation - but even more glad that you wouldn't take that kind of cr@p from a t (or anyone else) any more. What a long way you've come already! :applause:
My apologies for not responding sooner but I was caught up on work for a few days.
WhoBuddy - I do carry the tension in my muscles! When I check in with my body something is always in clench mode - shoulders, jaw, even my feet lol. So I check in more regularly now so that I make sure to unclench a few times a day at least. I'm not sure if this will ever disappear or not. The hypervigilance is better as I do check out the environment more and am able to see that there isn't any danger (before I just assumed there was always danger around every corner. I still have a really big startle response when I am busy though, not so much when things aren't stressful which is a nice change - before it used to be constant.
BHeart - I remember you writing about that and thinking how hard it must have been for you. :hug: My first reaction was to feel much like you as in "What did I do wrong?" and then I went into this new thought of "It doesn't matter, if this is punitive behaviour this T is not for me" which is where you ended up going. In the latest two instances I actually checked out right away with the people who hadn't answered me so that I did not have to wonder. urns out they hadn't responded for reasons that had nothing at all to do with me. So checking things out is not a bad strategy for the present (although it would have been in my FOO).
KeepFighting - you are so right about not taking crap from a T or anyone, it has been a long journey to get to this place but it means that finally the world is becoming a much safer place because I know I am looking out for myself. Huzzah!
So yesterday was my gastroscopy and I am so pleased at how well it all went. Normally I do dissociate to get through something difficult, but I stayed present before until the meds, and afterward -- OK a little fuzzy, but mostly there!
My IC was not nearly as scared and hyper as she has been in situations like this and I didn't have to expend much effort to reassure her that it was OK. I didn't feel her wanting to sob before, during and after like she normally does when I have to have a medical procedure like this. And I did not collapse when I got home. It all just felt normal, like integrated me went to the hospital, through the procdure and came home all as one me. Now where else could I write something like that and know everyone would get what I was saying lol!! :hug:
So my take on the day is that in being present I was able to feel the care my H, surgeon and the nursing staff extended toward me, soak it up as it were - nice warm blanket, lots of info about what was going to happen, smiles and reassurance all around, and a snack and OJ after I came out. Great care all around. Most of all I got to see that my IC seems to be less fearful and more trusting, thhat she is becoming more a part of me rather than a separate tightly coiled little ball of fear and pain. Huzzah :thumbup:
Oh wonderful! That's good to hear. From what I remember, you've done a ton of Inner Child work in the past weeks or months. So maybe that's paid off?
Tks Cat :hug: I think the IC work really has helped if days like yesterday are anything to go by.
I've also been trying to be compassionate with myself, check in with my body (Am I breathing shallowly? Where am I clenching?) and my environment (i.e., is there any real danger?), and all of that seems to be helping as well. Oh yes, and staying clear of triggers has been huge.
:party: :yourock:
What a great job you did! :applause: :thumbup: :thumbup:
So my NPD M is getting herself worked up into a tizzie and while I am not having an EF I am feeling a lot of feelings about it (that's good right lol?!). She has cabin fever and wants attention to alleviate the boredom. Even though we just email she's amazing adept at hoovering when she wants to. I am irritated, angry and thoroughly tired of the whole attention seeking gambit -- yay that I did not go off into an EF/dissociate, but boo to the reality of feeling these feelings.
Anyway, I'm off to see what I can do to offset those feelings, build something fun or pleasant into my day for a bit of balance (but seriously, bleh, bah and argh! :pissed:) Very mixed feelings right at this moment - glad that I know the games and how to manage her, but struggling to accept that the legacy of the trauma doesn't go away entirely and never will I suspect.
Kizzie: Do you ever delay opening her emails until your in a good place to read them? Can you mentally prepare? I think we're often programmed to auto open anything that lands in our mailbox. Sometimes when I get into email drama with my sister who is 1400 miles away, I'll let it sit for a couple days until I'm emotionally prepared and it tends to get less of a reaction from me.
I figure if it's REALLY important, they'll call me...
I have done that in the past when she was on a drama crusade and she actually does get the message pretty quick that she needs to dial it down. I do need to distance myself and disengage, I was getting a bit more caught up in it than I usually do. I forget sometimes how good she is at sucking me in so tk you for the reminder :hug:
So it's Mothers Day and my NPDM sends me an email with a picture of my cousin standing at my Father's grave and telling me how much she loves her "little Peanut" (her nickname). Peanut is one of my M's "good daughters" (she has several - - I'm not in the club), and often tells me what they've done for her. It really used to bother me but today I started to laugh and asked my H what he thought. He said what I had been thinking - "Oh yah, just had to tell you about one of her good daughters on Mother's day - typical." I can't believe I ever thought of her behaviour as covert :doh:
My reaction - "argh" and then "meh" - so I would have to say I am getting there in terms of recoveringl. I am going out with my wonderful H and not letting this seep into my day - so there, take that!
That's huge, Kizzie - congrats - disempowering her and empowering yourself.
I wonder if your lack of re=action will eventually change her actions. Do you think she's sitting around wondering why she hasn't heard from you?? I hope so!
Good for you.
I hope you had a great Mother's Day.
Big cheer for you, Kizzie! What a nasty thing to send to a daughter on Mother's Day, but how self compassionate of you to be able to let it slide right off of you. I'm glad your H is there for you and able to help you laugh at your Mother's attempts at tearing you down.
Happy Mother's Day!
Thanks all, it was a great Mother's Day - we had lunch out at a beautiful place on the harbour and then had a long chat with our son (who is on the other coast) while sitting looking over the ocean at a beautiful range of snow topped mountains, boats of all sizes, a sea plane or two, all kinds of birds, people flying kites and playing with their dogs and kids - in short, life as it should be for each and every one of us. :sunny:
So glad that you had a nice and relaxed mother's day! You deserve it!
Quote from: Kizzie on May 10, 2015, 06:22:42 PM
I can't believe I ever thought of her behaviour as covert :doh:
My reaction - "argh" and then "meh" - so I would have to say I am getting there in terms of recoveringl.
Couldn't help but laugh at your description - you're certainly getting there in recovery if you're able to see the rediculous side of her behaviour! :thumbup:
I used to think that 'covert' was somehow better than 'overt' - :doh:. Ah well.... live and learn... ;D
Tks KF and BH :hug:
About two years ago when I coming out of the fog and was still living near my M, I invited her to go shopping. When I picked her up she came limping out to the car with her ankle all bandaged up. Apparently she had fallen but had not told me about it because she didn't want to worry me (read "I am pissed at you and want to make sure you know that I am and to make you feel guilty). W did have a bit of a dust up about 10 days earlier about something, who knows what now and there was no way she was going to let that go without making me suffer for my sins.
Anyway, I was determined not to let my NPDM spoil my day and remained resolutely cheerful on the drive to the stores. My M is a shopaholic so when we pulled up bam, she was out of that car so fast and into the store in 2 seconds flat. Hmmmmm and where did the limp go I wonder? I had been diagnosed with CPTSD around then and my T had said I would one day see some humour in my NPDM's behaviour - I was completely skeptical. BUt seeing her zoom off into the store was so ridiculous I just had to laugh. And it felt really, really good, freeing even.
May 21st - I have been out of sorts for a bit now and had a :doh: moment yesterday morning about why this might be the case. We just moved and while it was one of the least stressful moves we've gone through, it's still a move and that creates both new possibilities and disruptions.
I realized I have been focused on the former (where we moved has much to offer), and pushing away the latter. I have not been listening to my IC and she is irritable, unsettled and upset that my H who was retired for a year has now gone back to work and she is having to deal with that and living in a new place after adult me swore I would never move again. (Both my F and my H were military so I've moved my whole life.)
So I ended up having a talk with my IC which went something like - "Sorry Kyle, I hear you now and it's OK to be upset :hug: I will stop telling you about all the good stuff and let you be cranky about the not-so-good things."
I also talked to my H last night about how I was feeling and slept well for the first time in a while so lesson learned about being mindful and practicing self-care :thumbup:
I know, isn't that story funny - I still laugh when I see her in my head zipping off with nary a limp in her step.
Tks for your thoughts about being cranky BeHealthy. :hug: I was thinking that whole business of shutting out the negative bits and it's one of my criticisms of CBT and other approaches like it. We can't just change how we feel by changing how we think, but in my effort to recover I have noticed the pendulum has swung the other way (towards trying to find the positives in all things rather than things to fear, be angry or sad about, dread .....).
So there I was doing my CBT and focusing on the positive aspects and my feelings about the negative aspects were still there, clamoring to be heard. And they did not budge, nope, not a bit until I let them surface and validated them. It's like people who tell those of us with CPTSD to just get over it and move on, because what happened is in the past and it's time to move on, think positive. Well sorry, we can't until we work through the trauma, that's just the way we human beings are built (or at least that's what I've come to believe and need to remember anyway).
Anyway, in allowing myself to feel that yup, there are some great parts and not so great aspects of moving and my H coming out of retirement, I feel more balanced. And that's how I suspect those who don't suffer from CPTSD tend to feel. That things are not always either all good or bad, but a blend of both. Here's to balance in all things :thumbup:
The PD thing explains so much doesn't it? And it validates for me that there really is a lot to be cranky (read angry and sad and depressed) about.
I do like CBT for noticing the positive things in my life I never had the time or energy to see before, and for rethinking some of my thinking/feeling that may be distorted because of the trauma, but at the same time I don't want to slip into denial that things are all good. Thankfully my IC continues to point that out no matter how much I try to ignore her. ;D
I just finished teaching a course and have to say it was such a good experience and has been the last two or three times. Quite a difference from two years ago when I had to take a leave of absence because my panic attacks/social anxiety/EFs were so bad I couldn't even teach online.
The thing that stands out now is that I feel so much more authentic, present and grounded in my teaching whereas before I felt like an imposter and was constantly anxious that someone would call me out, that I wasn't meeting the standard. Positive feedback from students and colleagues did not resonate while the merest hint of criticism (even constructive) would send me into an EF. And if I made a mistake or didn't give a 130%, EF time, shame.
I just feel so much more normal now, like this is how living and working is supposed to feel. There's a sense of flow I didn't have before (used to check and recheck everything I did/said), and I am not constantly worrying about how I'm doing, I'm just doing and enjoying it so much more. It's really quite lovely. :yes:
QuoteI just feel so much more normal now, like this is how living and working is supposed to feel. There's a sense of flow I didn't have before (used to check and recheck everything I did/said), and I am not constantly worrying about how I'm doing, I'm just doing and enjoying it so much more. It's really quite lovely.
Wow Kizzie, this must feel amazing...I'm so happy for you! Kudos to you and all the hard work you have put in to get to this lovely place.
You are awesome!
Awesome :thumbup: .
Thank you both :hug:
So in terms of having severe osteoarthritis, I realized this morning that I am in much the same place as I was when I found out that my M and B have NPD and that I have CPTSD. I am relieved that I know clearly what is going on and that there is help and support available, but I'm also so angry and sad that I have to deal with this lifelong physical issue and that it will continue to cause me pain.
Oddly, it's not the whole of me that is being dragged down by this. Not sure how to capture this in words exactly, but before when I would have a big issue like this to deal with it would consume me, sweeping me into an overwhelming EF. While I am deeply upset and struggling to accept the reality of my health issues, this time I have not been swept away. I think (hope) this is what becoming more integrated feels like.
Kizzie-
I am so very sorry that you are in pain and that the pain is not the kind that is expected to subside over time. It takes real courage to be able to accept such a thing and to learn how to navigate the ups and downs of a chronic condition. My spouse suffers from lupus, and I see firsthand how disabling severe conditions are.
In terms of realizing that your whole self is not disabled by the diagnosis - Hooray! It sounds like you are really practicing the skills needed to put the physical pain and limitations into a perspective which allows you to separate today's issues from things of the past. That is a true victory.
Take care of yourself.
Thanks for your kind words JDog. :hug:
Wow, it's been a long time since I wrote in my journal! :aaauuugh:
Since my last post about having osteoarthritis I actually had a total knee replacement three weeks ago and am on the mend from that. I'm still in pain but this time it will go away at least. The whole experience has served as a gauge of how I am doing in recovery and I am pleased. I did not have an EF leading up to, during hospitalization or since surgery and that's a big change. Anything medical, especially something this painful and major would have caused all kinds of past trauma to resurface before.
It's not like I have sailed through this by any stretch though. I have cried and felt angry and sad and all the things that a painful recovery bring up, but it just doesn't feel like there is this whole extra layer of other (unresolved) trauma on top of it. I still felt vulnerable because I had to depend on others, but it seemed almost like a normal amount or reaction to the situation. I can sense my old feelings of abandonment, etc., but it is as though they are more in my past and part of me as a whole than separate and current if that makes sense.
Anyway, I am grateful to be through surgery and on the mend and far enough along in recovery that I didn't have all that extra pain to deal with. It's so worth the time and effort it takes to heal from the past :yes:
Kizzie-
I am very glad that you have made such progress in recovery! I mean that both in terms of the physical as wil as the psychological/emotional. It's interesting to be able to notice how things that are inherently painful (like knee surgery) don't have to continue being connected to the entire litany of painful things which are stored deep within our "kitchen drain".
Also - I am not sure if you have already had that big birthday or whether it is still a few days away, but HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :cheer:
Thanks jdog :hug: I turned 60 on the 2nd (and got new knee for my present lol). Actually, the best present is making progress in recovery, definitely the best gift I ever gave myself :thumbup: :phoot: :cake:
I hear you! Recovery is the best gift, and despite all of the mud that gets on our shoes as we dredge truth from the messy sinkhole of the past, it is truly the gift that keeps on giving!
Hooray!
It really is isn't it Jdog? :hug: Hooray indeed! :cheer:
Wow, I really need to keep up with this journal more as it has almost been a year and a half. Here I am writing because I am about to go through having another knee replaced (which is the last time I posted here). I just found out this morning and felt like it might help to write something about how I am feeling.
It has been a tough time since May when our beloved dog of 15 years got quite sick. In the middle of that my H was deployed due to an out of control wild fire season here so I was on my own nursing our dog. Unfortunately he was too sick and old and we had to let him go. My H was able to get home when we had him put to sleep at least, but left right after. The grief was just so much harder for both of us being apart. It probably would have been "normal" grieving except for the abandonment issues that my H being away raised for me. And on his side he was exhausted and didn't really have any time/energy to grieve.
My H was gone for the better part of two and a half months, working 10-12 hours a day so we did not even talk much. By the end of it we were both discouraged, depressed and stressed. We were just getting over the summer when first he got sick with an upper respiratory infection, then I got it. It went on and one and on well into Oct and we were just starting to feel better emotionally and physically this past week. But, after a year and a half waiting, the phone rings and I'm having surgery Dec 4th. Really!?!?
Our son was coming home for Christmas and we had lots of fun things planned so I am beyond bummed. At the same time I am looking beyond the whole surgery thing (painful and long), to being able to walk again. For that I am grateful and thankful, I just wish it had been in the new year so we could get our feet under us plus fully enjoy our son's visit.
The other positive thing about this is I feel like I am reacting in a more normal way than I would have in the past. I immediately felt like I needed to come here and express my irritation/anger. Not all that many years ago I would be curled in a ball on the bed, trying to dissociate as quickly and for as long as I could. Not happening - yay :cheer:.
I also talked to my son and cried throughout about my disappointment we wouldn't be having the holiday we planned and of course that I had to go through surgery again. In the past I would have tried to be "brave" and minimize how I felt about it. He was absolutely wonderful as was my H.
So here's to recovery, it does happen and it really is worth all the hard work.
Added - Just thought about the anesthetist's reaction last time when I had the first knee surgery (asked why I couldn't leave my childhood trauma in the past). This time I will bring some materials about CPTSD for him (or whomever I see). Yah, educate the professionals, I like it. :thumbup:
Quote from: Kizzie on November 08, 2017, 11:14:00 PM
But, after a year and a half waiting, the phone rings and I'm having surgery Dec 4th. Really!?!?
Our son was coming home for Christmas and we had lots of fun things planned so I am beyond bummed. At the same time I am looking beyond the whole surgery thing (painful and long), to being able to walk again. For that I am grateful and thankful, I just wish it had been in the new year so we could get our feet under us plus fully enjoy our son's visit.
Aw, Kitty. I'm sad for you about your son's visit but happy that you'll get a new knee.
Quote from: Kizzie on November 08, 2017, 11:14:00 PM
The other positive thing about this is I feel like I am reacting in a more normal way than I would have in the past. I immediately felt like I needed to come here and express my irritation/anger. Not all that many years ago I would be curled in a ball on the bed, trying to dissociate as quickly and for as long as I could. Not happening - yay :cheer:.
I also talked to my son and cried throughout about my disappointment we wouldn't be having the holiday we planned and of course that I had to go through surgery again. In the past I would have tried to be "brave" and minimize how I felt about it. He was absolutely wonderful as was my H.
So here's to recovery, it does happen and it really is worth all the hard work.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
You educate them professionals! You are a force to be reckoned with. :flex: -i wish that was a real smiley -
warrior woman to the fore, kizzie. i picture you being wheeled into the operating room, one arm raised with righteous pages of information aimed at any who dare stay ignorant. love it!
sorry the timing is off on this, tho. that really sucks. but so very glad you're able to be real, even with your son. well done. you've been thru a lot in the past year, and now have this to look forward to. dang, life sure does like to throw curve balls sometimes.
by your side through your surgery. i am glad that you're getting a new knee, tho. not a bad christmas present in its own right, maybe. best to you, dear kizzie. sending a hug filled with love and quick recovery.
Kizzie, it is amazing how life keeps challenging us and, on the other hand, how differently we respond with a bit of healing behind us. You are a strong person, and so beloved by so many of us here on this site. Sorry for the pain, suffering, and irritation you have been served. And thank you for sharing with us so that we may also learn to bear our own challenges gracefully.
Hi Kizzie!
It brings some hope to me that you're able to heal like this after lots of hardwork and effort. I don't know you as well as some of the older members of this site, but you seem to have earned lots of admiration here for what you've done. I'm looking forward to hear more about you.
:cheer:
Thanks everyone, it really means a lot to have your care and support - group hug!
:grouphug:
Ahh- I feel the warmth of the hug! :grouphug:
And to think I never liked hugs, even emoticon ones - so glad to be past those days!
Sounds like a self compassionate step to me!
I finished up 7 or 8 EMDR sessions about a month ago and while it did help shift me out of the feeling of hopelessness & powerlessness I was feeling because of Trump's incessant N behaviour over 2 years. It felt like the past was happening to me all over again and I was struggling.
I do seem to have shifted out of that thankfully and have gained back some of the emotional distance I had lost. Unfortunately I also developed a lot of anxiety towards the last session, a clutching feeling around my heart and down my arm I used to have constantly in years past. I assumed it was the same old anxiety until it occurred to me I really should get checked out by my doctor. Sure enough my BP was really high and she sent me for lab work, an ECG and a mammogram. She also suggested I make every effort to de-stress and practice mindfulness. I did so and managed to bring my BP down and my anxiety has decreased significantly, but I am still struggling with insomnia. My labs came back fine as did the ECG so it's not a physical issue thankfully. Glad I went in.
This whole situation was both a wake-up call and a bit of a mystery. The wake-up comes in keeping on top of my self-care. I do give myself credit for going back to therapy which was helpful, but it also inevitably stirs up trauma and as a result I need to ratchet down stress and rest more when I go. Among other things I took a break from here, something I am good about encouraging others to do but don't often do myself ;D and that helped.
The mystery is that while I did feel better about the whole Trump thing, I then developed constant anxiety. :Idunno: Now that I know it is not a physical issue, it leads me to the conclusion that the EMDR must have stirred up more trauma than was associated with the issue I went for, much like it did when I went four years ago except it was not as extreme or debilitating. As a result I am somewhat cautious about EMDR as a therapeutic approach for Complex PTSD. I do see that it can be quite beneficial but with a lot of grounding, safety training and going slowly because tackling one layer is bound to irritate other areas where trauma is stored. As long as you know that going in and the T is prepared to work on those things with you, it can be a helpful approach imo.
I'm now trying some Somatic Experiencing therapy as it focuses on shifting the trauma stored in the body. We'll see how it goes, hopefully it will help with the layers.
Glad you got it checked out by the doc Kizzie. It does seem to be a constant moral to the story doesn't it? Self care self care self care.
Sometimes our bodies are storing up anxiety and we don't even realize it. I'm glad that it's not physical, but sorry that it was brought on by therapy. I think somatic experiencing therapy sounds like a good plan. Take care :hug:
it's quite amazing how our bodies and minds store our trauma, memories, experiences, feelings, emotions, etc. i know my body is full of these toxins and they cause a lot of physical problems.
yeah, lots of rest, stabilizing, containment are essential when doing emdr. it can be a full-time job in and of itself. i hope you get some relief with your somatic therapy, that it can loosen and shift things so as to be able to get rid of them. you're a courageous woman, kizzie, never forget that. love and a hug full of well wishes for this new adventure.
Kizzie :hug:
I have a book by Peter Levine, "In An Unspoken Voice", that I've been meaning to read for a few months. It's sitting on my shelf. Honestly I think without looking at the physical part of this, I'm not going to recover any more than I already have. Thanks for posting!
Kizzie-
Just echoing what others have said about being glad nothing physical is going on but sorry the EMDR loosened up more trauma. It sounds as if you are taking good care of yourself, and that makes me happy. Take care.
Kizzie, the first thing that strikes me here is that you're posting a whole thing about yourself :thumbup: I thought "Kizzie's Journal? Does Kizzie even have a Journal?" Obviously you do.
:applause: :applause: for getting physical check ups done. So happy for you that there is nothing physical.
I'm sorry EMDR loosened other stuff and hope that Somatic Experiencing will help.
:cheer: on taking a break of more than a couple of days from most duties here. The forum survived, I survived ;)
Quote from: Blueberry on November 24, 2018, 09:33:18 PM
Kizzie, the first thing that strikes me here is that you're posting a whole thing about yourself :thumbup: I thought "Kizzie's Journal? Does Kizzie even have a Journal?" Obviously you do.
:yeahthat: :))
LOL, yes I do actually have a journal, I just don't use it as much as I think would be helpful. It feels like N behaviour to me, this despite the fact that I believe in the benefits of journaling and confidently suggest it to others. ;D
This journal forum is different in that it is intended to be all about us, our inner selves, our struggles and victories and so on. The other forums involve talking to other members of the community and I'm good with that (although that took a long while too - keeping my cards close to my chest was habitual because it helped with surviving as many of you know all too well). Talking about me to me for me does feel N-like, but at least I recognize that and am starting to believe it's important to challenge that perception now
Anyway, not to go on about that I just laughed when I read your comment BB.
Tks for your support everyone, I am feeling so much better now knowing there isn't anything physical. Just like my last experience with EMDR the anxiety gradually reduced but it showed me once again I need to do some therapy that will help with releasing the stored trauma and the deep level, reptilian brain type responses I keep having. So, I am going to make an effort to write about the Somatic Experiencing here. :yes:
So I came across this article on Twitter just now that I'm posting here because I want to remember it when I re-read my journal (but I also hope anyone reading this will also find it useful). It totally resonated with my experience of anxiety .
We Can't Keep Treating Anxiety From Complex Trauma the Same Way We Treat Generalized Anxiety - https://themighty.com/2018/06/anxiety-from-complex-trauma/?utm_source=engagement_bar&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_share
Here's an excerpt which speaks to the reason I am doing some Somatic Experiencing now:
For those who have experienced trauma, anxiety comes from an automatic physiological response to what has actually, already happened. The brain and body have already lived through "worst case scenario" situations, know what it feels like and are *-bent on never going back there again. The fight/flight/ freeze response goes into overdrive. It's like living with a fire alarm that goes off at random intervals 24 hours a day. It is extremely difficult for the rational brain to be convinced "that won't happen," because it already knows that it has happened, and it was horrific.
Those living with generalized anxiety often live in fear of the future. Those with complex trauma fear the future because of the past.
thanks, kizzie. makes sense. :hug:
Thanks for sharing that. It makes a lot of sense to me :yes:
Thanks! This hits home for me, too.
Yes, that strikes a chord with me also. Maybe this explains my constant tinnitus. Overdrive and alarms going off. Makes sense. Thanks, Kizzie!
Thanks for sharing this Kizzie. I found this quite validating and helpful to read.
Glad to hear this resonated for many of you :thumbup: After four years of recovery work and still finding myself slipping back into the alarmed/anxious state now and then, I finally have accepted that by jove body work IS important and professionals like Peter Levine and Bessel Van der Kolk probably do know what they are talking about lol ;D Better late than never I suppose.
I don't go back for another SE session until next week so nothing to report on that front.
Hi Kizzie,
I hope your next SE session goes well. :hug: to you, if that's ok.
Hope :)
Cyber :hug: & well wishes are both appreciated Hope, tks!
Hi Kizzie, I hope you have a good Christmas. I hope it brings you things that you would like to have in your life. :hug:
Hope :)
Same to you Hope (and everyone)!
And likewise, from me to you, Kizzie! You rock!
Tks JDog, right back at you :hug:
I agree with Jdog, You Rock, Kizzie. :hug:
Hope :)
I am having such a tough time. My normally even keeled H has been steadily getting more difficult to live with for the last year or so due to his job which is very demanding & frustrating. He's tired, discouraged, angry and moody.
We made the decision to move and take a job offer in another province, but that fell through and so we had to decide whether he should just retire outright and still move or keep on working. That has not gone smoothly to say the least. Now he is facing retirement and he is not ready for that but the alternative is staying in a job that is taking a real toll on him and us. Rock and a hard place or so it feels to him right now and he is not taking it well at all.
He is not one to talk about his feelings easily and especially to admit when he is angry (gift from his family) so it comes out sideways at me. I feel a bit like I am in a war zone that has set my trauma reactions firing on all burners. It's like I am trapped, unable to reach him no matter what I do or say. Feels a lot like growing up when I could not reach my NPD parents and I recognize that my trauma has layered on top of a tough situation. I reached my limit the other night.
I got drunk b/c I could not stand feeling the way I was, on my last nerve, angry, sick and afraid. I just wanted to block things out again like I did five years ago when I fell apart. I told my H everything I was feeling, that while I understood he was going through some things I could not take his behaviour any more, that he has to talk to me and treat me with the respect and love I deserve. I told him this while I was drunk and then again the next day to make sure he understood it was not the alcohol talking.
We have continued to talk since then and I feel like he is hearing me. He finally talked to me about all that he is feeling and that's a big step forward out of trying to keep a lid on it all. It takes a lot to get him to talk about things like this and I think he realizes the price is too high to keep on doing so, that he has to learn to get things out earlier on. He's willing to get some therapy to help with doing so and I will hold him to it.
I don't write in my journal much any more but I knew this morning I needed to talk about this here and acknowledge how I feel about how he has been behaving. My stress reactions are WAY up -- feeling more sick and afraid than angry -- and I need to get them to come down so I am writing here in the hope that it will help.
Oh Kizzie, I hear you. That is a long time to have to hold discomfort and work/career issues can be so unsettling and disruptive. I'm sorry that H's pain and anxiety about it has been turned on you. It's extra challenging when someone who may usually be one of our rocks (so-to-speak) isn't any more and it sounds like you've been handling it for a while now.
I'm so glad to hear you were able to identify so much of what is going on for both of you and really express that how it is playing out is NOT okay. I hope he can continue to hear you and you can continue to find ways to recreate safety and ease in your relationship.
I'm glad you posted. Want you to know I'm standing with you and thinking of you, wishing you peace and resolution.
:hug:
MB
thanks for sharing, kizzie. i know this isn't an automatic thing for you to do, to write here, but i give you a lot of credit for getting some of the crapola out, and letting us show you some support.
outlying situations can certainly take their toll on a relationship. i do hope you follow up and you and your hub can get some counseling. it sounds like it may just be a 'stop and breathe' kind of session that would help get you both back on track, re-focus on priorities, and aid the two of you to becoming even closer when it comes to discussing such issues. i'm really glad for the both of you that he decided he'd go. i think it'll be a positive experience all around.
with you all the way on this, sweetie. sending love and a hug filled w/ strength and clarity. :hug:
:hug: here with you it's a struggle for sure. I hope the two of you will find a good T that will help work the communication and emotional struggles that both are currently facing. Standing here with you offering a supportive hug. :hug:
Quote from: sanmagic7 on August 15, 2019, 05:48:09 PM
thanks for sharing, kizzie. i know this isn't an automatic thing for you to do, to write here, but i give you a lot of credit for getting some of the crapola out, and letting us show you some support.
:yeahthat:
Good on you for your clear words to your h, Kizzie, and I'm glad he seems to be taking it seriously. :bighug: :bighug:
Sorry to hear you're having a rough time Kizzie. It's great that you were able to talk with your H though, and you two can move forward. I really hope you feel better soon, and can bring down some of those stress reactions. Take care! :)
Nothing more to add, but I'm standing with you in this. :hug:
:hug:
I am beginning to feel better b/c my H and I are talking and that has helped as has sharing here so tks everyone,.
I have to say I haven't felt that shaky in a long time. It has been a very real, up close and awful reminder of how trauma affected me at very deep levels both physically and psychologically back in my childhood and has carried through to my sixties. I was a kid again and at the mercy of my parents who were supposed to love me, but I did not seem to matter and was powerless to do anything to change things, just endure, survive, exist - all with a smile on my face. :'(
As an adult I'm not in the same position, I do have power and a voice and my H loves me, but it felt the same. The feelings were horrible and it has been a very painful, frightening reminder of how much child me suffered and the compassion, care, kindness and connection I need, .... that we all need :grouphug:.
:hug:
i hate that we have to have those reminders. sometimes, they help me get out of continuing denial about how much i suffered, so i suppose they can be beneficial in one sense. still, i wish none of us would have them sneak up on us. we've suffered enough.
so glad you and your H are talking more lately. that's great, and can go a long way toward becoming closer as a couple. love and hugs :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on August 16, 2019, 04:55:28 PM
As an adult I'm not in the same position, I do have power and a voice and my H loves me, but it felt the same. The feelings were horrible and it has been a very painful, frightening reminder of how much child me suffered and the compassion, care, kindness and connection I need, .... that we all need :grouphug:.
The feelings are horrible. Glad you were able to use your voice. Supporting you.
Kizzie-
I am so sorry you are having to cope with both H's distress and your own, past and present. I very much understand what it is like living with an angry person. I admire the way in which you aren't working with the situation at home, getting H to see how you feel, working with him to be able to uncover his own feelings.
You once again lead by example. Thank you for sharing this very hard situation. Sending love and compassion as things calm down and begin to heal. :hug:
Our house just sold yesterday so that is both a relief and a worry because now we really must make a decision about what my H is going to do career-wise. I am trying to reassure younger me by continuing to connect and talk things out but I can't lie, part of me, younger me -- is afraid and I get that.
I hadn't realized a lot of the fear may come from being so incredibly triggered by Trump's NPD behaviour over the past 2-3 yrs (i.e., primed nervous system or at least still recovering after going back to therapy to deal with it). That whole feeling of nothing I do or say matters, I don't matter, I am invisible, powerless ..... that's what this felt a lot like except instead of dissociating I went into full blown panic - the shaky feeling I mentioned, like my self was coming apart and in real danger vs the depression and dissociation I experienced b/c of being so triggered by Trump's N behav.
I don't care about Trump, but I love my H and do not want to lose him. It's a very real present day fear layered on top by past trauma - the old double whammy if you will. The amount of energy and inner resources that takes is phenomenal but unless you have a good grasp of trauma people don't see/understand what people like us are go through to keep our heads above water so to speak.
Anyway, my H doesn't have NPD so I am trying to reassure myself and especially younger me but all the fear chemicals, traumatic memories and feelings are so hard to calm as I know you all know only too well.
Tks again everyone :grouphug:
:hug: will be thinking of you...
Quote from: Three Roses on August 17, 2019, 08:31:00 PM
:hug: will be thinking of you...
:yeahthat: :grouphug:
You seem to have a lot of clarity about your emotions and why you're triggered. I do know that intellectual clarity doesn't calm our feelings/triggers down but it is a step along the way.
You
do matter! Of course you're not invisible on here! But even for your H you aren't. Remember the tea incident when your H was sick? Your thoughts and feelings were pretty clear to him once you started showing them and talking about them. You set your limit. You're moving forwards atm :cheer:
Sending love and support :hug:
You're so right about intellectual clarity not being the same thing as emotional clarity BB :thumbup: My mind knows one thing, my body another and my heart is between the two if that makes sense.
My H is struggling with a lot right now and it has triggered me so I'm struggling too - usually it's not the two of us in a bad place at the same time. We went another round about where to move and what to do yesterday (when I say "round" I'm referring to a clash of wills, not anything emotionally/ physically abusive). In the end we could not connect and as much as I wanted to I did not drink, instead I dissociated when I could not take it any more. I keep trying to reassure younger me that he is going through a lot and not himself and will come out of it at some point, but man oh man she is having a hard time.
:hug: :hug: for Adult you and younger you.
:applause: for not drinking but I'm sorry things are so tough you dissociated. :grouphug:
Dear Kizzie, I'm so sorry to hear what a rough time you're having. And, my heart goes out to your H as well. Moving is SO stressful - selling a home and relocating is a very hard thing to do, even if it's a positive move.
My Young Me is going to spend some time running and laughing on the beach of the Healing Porch. She might like to color a little bit, too. Your Younger You is invited to join us if she wants. She likes campfires and s'mores so we'll be down on the beach at dusk. :hug:
:applause: For not drinking. Sorry you are having such a hard time right now. Selling a house, deciding where to live, relationships---all really stressful. :grouphug: to all of you.
:hug:
Happy to say we have finally managed to get back on solid ground after the emotional road blocks (past trauma) and can deal with present stress of selling, moving & retiring together. My H is tenacious which made him an excellent army officer and helped him survive his own family trauma but OMG it can be incredibly difficult when it comes to dealing with our life issues. At least with him I know it is temporary & eventually we will reconnect emotionally unlike my family but it takes a toll.
Anyway, he finally let go of the fight & freeze responses he was having and is connecting with me again. I could almost see something click in him and then he shifted back into himself, it's much like what happens when I come out of being triggered. Yesterday I made sure I emphasized how much I loved him and knew he was struggling and that we could work through everything, we always have.
Just wanted to say thanks again for your support and encouragement :grouphug:
Oh, that's great news Kizzie! Thanks for letting us know that things are on more of an even keel. Now you can get to the matters which need to be handled in the present day.
Be safe and carry on. :hug:
Glad to hear you're reconnecting again. The rest will work out too. Take care! :)
That's so cool to hear. :bigwink: :thumbup: And a testimony to your ability to create a renewed sense together.
:applause: :applause:
:grouphug:
:cheer: :hug:
Happy we're settled in our new house and the tension between H and I has subsided. Way too much stress for both of us, some of which I did not see coming. His intense reaction to moving & retiring was really hard on both of us.
Maybe as a result of all the stress I was drifting down into despair again, much like when Trump was elected. Just too much in the news that scraped against any resiliency/objectivity I had built up. Right now there just seems to be too many stories of abuse of power, greed... all things things that bring the rage and powerlessness of having to endure the NPD behav of my parents to the surface.
Stopping watching the news has helped. Nervous about starting therapy this week but hopeful it will also help. I still feel a lot of pain and fear obviously so anything I can do to deal with that is good. Will ask about EMDR to shift out of this as it helped last time. They are quite versed in CPTSD though (can't believe how difficult it is to find T's who treat CPTSD), so hopefully they will have some good ideas/strategies.
Glad things are settling down. Moving and retirement are two big stressors. Understand about feeling nervous about starting therapy. Hope it goes well and you feel heard, understood, and safe with new T.
glad to hear the move is over and the stress has lessened. best to you with your new t - i hope therapy is helpful for you once again.
the world is in crisis, i agree. i can only hope that people w/ power do the right thing. as for me, i can only make my own little part of the world as loving as possible. standing with you all the way, kizzie. thanks for sharing. love and hugs! :hug:
Congratulations on a new home. I hope this new place will be a good place for you. And I'm glad to hear that the stress has settled down a little from after the move. Moving is such a strain!
I hope the new therapist will help you through some healing and help you get to the next step in your recovery and healing.
Hi Kizzie,
Glad that your move has gone ok, and your stress has lessened as a result. Hope you are enjoying settling in and everything that comes with that. Good luck with starting the therapy. :hug:
Hope :)
Tks everyone! :grouphug: Tomorrow's the day I meet my new T so will likely write about that once I process a bit.
I hope it goes well, Kizzie. :hug:
Good luck with that, Kizzie! :hug:
i echo everyone else, kizzie. best to you and your new t. love and hugs! :hug:
I have not written anything here or posted much on the forum for quite a while as have just been trying to keep my head above water since my H had a stroke at the end of Aug. I recognize though that part of self-care is expressing some of what I've been going through and dealing with it outwardly versus keeping it all inside - can't suggest others do so if I don't myself :whistling:
It has been truly awful for my H and I. I've heard people say something like this turns your life upside down in an instant and it's absolutely true. It's a PTSD making moment in time, followed by CPTSD triggering afterwards in some respects as we try to navigate our way through recovery during COVID.
There is such vulnerability when you are trapped in a situation that makes you so dependent on others for health and well being .... just like when I was a kid. I've really struggled to stay regulated in the face of less than professional care at times (most of the staff are great), and to deal with all the stresses and strains having my H in care brings with it. I have screamed alone in my house and driving, punched my pillow, cried buckets and have considered drinking but that never helped so so far I haven't. I am overeating though, my go to strategy when I want to numb/comfort. I was going to the hospital and rehab centre every single day but knew I couldn't keep that up so am taking a day off every week now, and not staying quite as long as I was. It helps.
It's brought trauma from my H's past to the surface too and he is struggling. The other day he told me he keeps hearing his FOO's voices in his head telling him it was only a small stroke, that he's not doing enough to recover :blahblahblah: He has always been a confident, grounded person so that was a bit of a shock to hear. Ghosts from the past seem to take up more real estate when we are vulnerable.
I have to head off but guess the one thing I can say that has helped the most throughout is taking control where I can and letting go where I can't. Hard to do of course but when I keep it in mind it helps (as does trying to practice more self-care). Hopefully writing a bit more here will also help release some of the anger/grief/sadness and trauma.
Thank you for the update, Kizzie. I've been wondering how you and your H were doing. Hugs and good wishes to both of you. :hug: :grouphug:
All I can say -- :hug:
All I can say again -- :hug:
Hi Kizzie I just wanted to send you my best wishes and to say how strong I think you're being in coping and sharing too.
Hi Kizzie. I'm proud of you for not drinking, for allowing yourself to feel what you are feeling and for taking care of yourself the best that you can. :hug:
:hug: sending you much love Kizzie :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
Thinking of you and your husband. I would also like to send you a hug :hug:
Hope :)
Tks so much everyone :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
I remember a day when I would not have said anything to anyone about this, especially not about the CPTSD bits. It's just so wonderful to have this tribe I must say and to be able to express what I couldn't growing up and long into adulthood.
I hope against hope we are helping to give voice to relational trauma so that younger generations won't go through what so many of us did. No more silence, no more going it alone and one day no more relational trauma (I can always hope on the last one ;D)
:hug:
:hug: :grouphug:
Quote from: Kizzie on October 30, 2020, 03:07:53 PM
I hope against hope we are helping to give voice to relational trauma so that younger generations won't go through what so many of us did.
Kizzie you DO give a voice to those with trauma. This platform is valuable to so many of us. And I see you on other platforms raising awareness too.
Thank you for all you do x
Sending you hugs :grouphug:
:hug: thank you Kizzie for your hard work, I'm always grateful for your fight for relational trauma awareness (if I can say so) :grouphug:
Off to visit my H but first, BIG group hug :grouphug: Tks everyone ;D
:grouphug:
:hug:
I hope you and your H are doing better, Kizzie.
We still have more ahead of us but there is a faint light at the end of the tunnel. Looks like my H will be cleared to come home for overnight passes starting next week and that will raise both our spirits immeasurably I'm sure. The whole living in an institution thing is getting really old for both of us. There are lots of great staff, but also some who aren't and that's hard when you're trapped and vulnerable as we all know here. Lots of microaggressions from unhappy personal support workers which is like "death by a thousand cuts" - like being around a passive aggressive boss, a parent with covert NPD, that kind of thing. It accumulates and wears you down.
I've filed two formal complaints but the reality is these types of facilities are understaffed and PSWs are underpaid so not sure how much will change. These PSWs are on evening/overnight/weekends and when they're unhappy and not overly well supervised that tends to trickle out to patients.
Fortunately my H is doing well and manages most things on his own as well as is clear headed enough to speak up for himself now. I worry about those who can't; reminds me of being a kid with little or no power/credibility/protection. It helps me to see and feel so clearly why/how we developed CPTSD/RTR.
Sending you some good thoughts, Kizzie. I hope the overnight passes will happen soon.
Hi Kizzie,
I hope your H's overnight passes are going ok. I realise I'm writing this a month after you mentioned these, and I really hope he's recuperating ok.
Sending you a hug :hug:
Hope :)
Tks Hope and Sceal! I guess I need to update my journal because my H has been discharged and is home now. It's been a bit of a whirlwind getting equipment and modifying the house so haven't been posting much again (my excuse :whistling:).
It such a relief to have him out of the rehab centre as COVID rates in the city are really high like many places. :aaauuugh:
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :hug:
All what you write are good reasons for not posting on here imho
You're a sweetie pie BB :hug:
Hoping things are more settled for you Kizzie :hug:
Sending you much love Kizzie :hug: Happy that you're home, and as Blueberry said, a completely good reason for some time away here. :grouphug:
:hug:
So having L home and having to care for him 24/7 proved just as stressful if not more so than driving into the city every day and dealing with medical, rehab and support staff. Just like when we brought T home and all of a sudden there weren't any doctors or nurses around, it was all on us. My alarm system was on 24/7 and that's exhausting because of all the adrenaline and other chemicals/hormones pumping through my system. Nothing left.
L's steady improvement has helped but the thing that has become so clear to me is just how frightened I am about being abandoned and being all alone. L was struggling, our son was struggling with his own issues and I was struggling. Not a good time and I've never felt so alone and having to struggle on because it was up to me.
Neither L nor T seemed to notice or care that I was having such a hard time and that shot me right back to growing up in my family when I was only valuable/noticed by what I could give them. This felt much the same. Also, L is difficult when he is ill and didn't seem to appreciate much of what I was doing to help him and it was a lot.
I'm glad it all came to a head a week or so ago. I fell apart and told him all that I was feeling and that he must try harder. I yelled, I cried, I was brutally honest about how I was doing and how I had reached my limit.
he heard me and although I feel wary I'm so releived. He abandoned me emotionally because of his stroke but also because of his baggage from his family and I was afraid I would have to live with that for whatever time I have left on this planet or leave.
I now know how terrified and afraid young me must have felt when my parents abandoned me. The difference is he heard me, he is trying to behave differently and that never happened in my family. Terribly sad and I have a lot of healing to do. Feeling those feelings again scares me beyond words but I think (hope) looking at it square on will help me to stop running, dissociating, etc. I want and deserve a better life.
Kizzie, being a caregiver 24/7 is exhausting. To feel the weight of your husband's physical and emotional needs and T's needs and that they didn't see you sounds really painful. I hear that you have been frightened about being abandoned and being alone. The abandonment as a child, it hurts to the core. :grouphug:
Tks Notalone :hug: I've always felt this abandonment depression as Pete Walker refers to it (http://www.pete-walker.com/managingAbandonDepression.htm), just not as clearly and intensely as this before. My H's stroke brought it to the surface in spades and now I do see it and feel it. Fortunately I am in therapy as I mentioned and I am able to talk about it there and with my H and S, and will continue to do so here.
I understand why when we're abused/neglected (abandoned), especially as children we adopt certain behaviours like dissociation, identifying with our abusers, denial, trauma responses (flight, fight, flee, fawn), etc., to survive those feelings and why it's so hard to face that abandonment/rejection/threat to our lives physically and/or psychologically.
:'(
Thank you for the link Kizzie. I've read PW's book before but it's amazing how much you forget. This is a good tie together of a lot of things I have been experiencing lately.
I'm glad you brought up your feelings to your H and they were heard and validated. You deserve to be heard.
:bighug: :bighug: :grouphug: to you Kizzie and to Little you as well, if it doesn't overwhelm her anyway.
We both like hugs now BB, tk you. :hug:
Looking at my abandonment depression square on and talking about it with L and T has been difficult but at the same time it feels like I am getting more used to it. It has always been there but now it's out on the open within me and w/L and T. Since I fell apart we've all been trying to be more present for each other and more caring which has helped so much. My family never heard me or cared but L and T do and want to work together to make things better for ourselves.
I feel like I should have let this abandonment depression come up to the surface much earlier but recovery doesn't seem to work that way, at least not for me. The amount of stress it took to reveal it and then the stark reality of how alone, worthless, unsafe I feel is good reason to have gone slowly.
Both L and T have revealed more about their own struggles so we're all trying to be more honest and lean on each other for comfort and support. We each had a tendency to go off in our corners when something was bothering us, to shut down instead of reaching out honestly and openly. Part of this for me was because I didn't want to face some really painful things. Hopefully this will change, we need each other.
I am also going to continue working with C on this - so glad to have her for support and guidance as it's really tough to face this. I don't think it goes away per se but I hope I can make peace with it, integrate it and use the energy I dedicated to running from/suppressing it for more life affirming, joyful things in my life.
Hey Kizzie,
That really sounds like a whole ton of progress just in the space of a week. :thumbup: Also - wow - you've looked at and I imagine re-felt so much pain and come out the other side.
I'm really glad your FOC is taking your needs and the fact that you fell apart seriously and that you are all trying to support each other now.
I know it's difficult but it's important to go at the pace you need, so yes, go slowly. Iirc, you had to tell your h months ago to carry some of his own burden and not dump on you. Something like that. So I see that as like a little intro into the topic before you or he or your son were at a stage capable of doing the steps you are now.
:hug: :hug: :grouphug:
Kizzie, I want to support you in what you are going through. My mind keeps going blank this morning, so I'll just say that for now.
Tk you both :hug: :hug:
Talking with C in therapy is helping me to understand I need to take things slowly and after seeing/feeling the bottom I understand why that is. No wonder I ran all those decades, very tough stuff to 'know' about.
One thing that surprised me is that she suggested dissociating isn't something to rip away, rather to let go of slowly too so that there is something to replace it. Otherwise. we are seeing/feeling all that pain in too big a dose.
Now that most of the stress of L's stroke is gone I can take this process more slowly. Going through all that ripped away a lot of my defenses and I understand how important titrating is.
Our goal or plan is to allow myself to 'notice' the pain, fear, abandonment depression emotionally and in my body and slowly regulate and integrate it.
So lovely that talking to L about what I was feeling has led to a release of so much fear and anger. The last 2-3 mornings I have woken up not in that gray place of depression and feeling weighed down, afraid, hopeless.
I haven't felt this way in what seems a long time - seemed to start when Trump got into power and got worse with COVID and then L's stroke. Now with Trump gone, having talked to L and connected, and knowing we will have the COVID vaccine in April I'm feeling lighter, safer and happier - it's wonderful. ;D This is how people who don't have trauma weighing them down feel most of the time.
:cheer: :hug:
Tks BB :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
Sending you a hug :hug:
Hope :)
Tks Hope :)
So glad you are feeling lighter, safer, and happier. :hug:
Tks Notalone, We still go through bumps (returns to old behavs) like yesterday which ended in a dust up because he wasn't seeing/accepting his behaviour toward me was covertly controlling/dominating. He is going to go see a T so hopefully that will help.
I hope so too Kizzie for you, and for your H too. But Idk him. :hug:
But at least you seem to know what's going on? So you can hold him accountable to it to some degree and not take all his stuff on board.
It sounds a positive step that he's going to see a T :)
Session with C on Thurs was interesting. We talked about my inner critic and shame - I didn't know what to make of the fact that I knew I had been really supportive of my H during his stroke but got angry not only at him for seeming not to appreciate that, but at myself. Why would I be angry at myself when I knew I had done so much to help my H?
We ended up on the thought that it's a defense mechanism I use to "beat everyone else to the punch". That is, before anyone can shame/blame me (for not being a good enough wife, for being angry at this poor man who had a stroke), I do it to myself because it packs less of an emotional punch and I am in control of who does the blaming and shaming.
Shaming myself helps me to become invisible so no-one else can shame/blame me. And I did feel very vulnerable and exposed and then did retreat so I think this mind bending explanation has some legs. :stars:
We ended off on the note "What we resist, persists" which has to do with letting that part of me come more into awareness and noticing it, being curious about it versus trying to challenge it, get rid of it, cast it out before I've emotionally come to terms that it/I was trying to protect myself, to survive the terror of being abused and unsafe as a kid.
It's a bit tricky because on the one hand it is the internalized voices of my parents, but it is also a protective part of me so there needs to be recognition and acceptance of it, why it exists, the pain and terror of being shamed and abandoned it took to internalize it.
Someone pointed out that they saw the inner critic as a tool , something they adapted in order to survive and I thought that was a really good way to look at it. It's a conundrum for sure :hug:
Tks DV, I can see it as a tool or strategy a bit more as I 'notice' and ponder it. I looked up the saying "beat someone to the punch" and it is thought to be a boxing term in which you win by being the one to punch the other guy before they can punch you.
The idea that shame helps to make me invisible and therefore less likely to be criticized/humiliated/attacked by others resonates. I can remember times when someone has done this and it has sent me into an EF. It feels like my feet have been knocked out from under me, and worse, like I have been psychologically/emotionally shattered. It is not this bad when my ICr does the job.
I remember one of the early instances that must have given birth to my ICr. I must have been 5 or 6 and my F had been away and when he opened the car trunk I saw there were some presents - a skipping rope was one. I said something about them being for me and he replied something to the effect that "why would I think those are for you?", not jokingly but in a "you're a selfish little girl" and "do you really think you deserve these?" kind of way. I remember how ashamed and shrunken I felt.
I can see/feel why I would not want to feel that again and why I would want to beat others, especially important others, to the punch. :'(
Quote from: Kizzie on March 06, 2021, 05:01:48 PM
Session with C on Thurs was interesting. We talked about my inner critic and shame - I didn't know what to make of the fact that I knew I had been really supportive of my H during his stroke but got angry not only at him for seeming not to appreciate that, but at myself. Why would I be angry at myself when I knew I had done so much to help my H?
We ended up on the thought that it's a defense mechanism I use to "beat everyone else to the punch". That is, before anyone can shame/blame me (for not being a good enough wife, for being angry at this poor man who had a stroke), I do it to myself because it packs less of an emotional punch and I am in control of who does the blaming and shaming.
Shaming myself helps me to become invisible so no-one else can shame/blame me. And I did feel very vulnerable and exposed and then did retreat so I think this mind bending explanation has some legs. :stars:
We ended off on the note "What we resist, persists" which has to do with letting that part of me come more into awareness and noticing it, being curious about it versus trying to challenge it, get rid of it, cast it out before I've emotionally come to terms that it/I was trying to protect myself, to survive the terror of being abused and unsafe as a kid.
It's a bit tricky because on the one hand it is the internalized voices of my parents, but it is also a protective part of me so there needs to be recognition and acceptance of it, why it exists, the pain and terror of being shamed and abandoned it took to internalize it.
My situation is a bit different because I have DID, so my critical Parts are more separate, but I think the principles are similar. My T has helped me to see those Parts, not as "bad guys," but Parts that are trying to protect. Those Parts are from a messed up childhood, so the
methods the Parts or critic uses may not be healthy, but their goal is a good one---to protect. In your case, the critical part of you is trying to protect you from others shaming and blaming you. The only way that critical part knows how to do that is to "beat everyone else to the punch" and then you are in control of who is blaming/shaming. (When you look at it, it really was a brilliant strategy for a young child to create and implement.) That young protective part doesn't have the knowledge or skills to protect by putting up boundaries and not taking on self-blame that doesn't belong.
I am finding this approach, as opposed to getting rid of &/or silencing the critic, to be kind. It is bringing real healing to the wound instead of putting on a bandaide and covering it up.
Kizzie, I have an image of a little girl gone all quiet and shrunken. If a hug feels good, I'll give her one. But maybe she needs to hear that it's normal to feel excited about presents and it's normal to say something in your excitement when you're only 5 or 6. I think her dad was being really mean that day. I'm sorry that happened to her. Maybe you've told her all that already, but it's not bad to hear it again.
My T invites me to be curious about my reactions, so your T's approach sounds similar. I'm just babbling, don't have the wherewithal. :hug: to Adult you and Little Kizzie if it's helpful to her.
Why shouldn't your little self think that skipping rope was for her? I'm sorry that you were shamed for such a natural impulse :hug:
Sounds like your making some really good insights about how it's working in you :cheer:
Tks DV, BB and NA :hug: The example of the skipping rope may seem innocuous to anyone who hasn't suffered from emotional trauma, little T trauma (and it did feel like I was oversensitive, misunderstanding my parents intentions), but they are not. They are meant to cut you down to size, to remind you of how little and small you are. They are most definitely not the words/tone of voice a loving parent uses. He could have said, "Yes my darling they are for you because you are a sweetheart" ... but he didn't.
It was death by a thousand cuts to the healthy, happy little girl I should have been. Terribly sad :'(
Reading a book "Traumatic Narcissism" by Daniel Shaw (2014) and this para resonated with me and what my T and I have been talking about in terms of getting to know that ICr part of me, that it persecutes to protect:
We can help the patient develop an internal dialogue between his "protector/persecutor" self and the self that wants to live, with creativity and freedom; then the protector self can cease to be afraid of being alive, of loving and being loved. He can relax his vigilance and feel confident that the creative self will be okay. (p. 115)
I think I may be better able to do this now based on the abyss I stared into in the months since my H's stroke. I felt much of the deep fear and pain I have been trying to avoid and came out the other side. Knowing I can look at it, feel it and come through it now as an adult hopefully means I can have the kind of dialogue Shaw is suggesting as a goal in treatment.
So fell and tripped in the wee hours the morning after Mother's Day and both dislocated and fractured my baby finger. Got a ridiculously large half/cast put on for a week and could not type or do much - dominant hand unfortunately - just got a much smaller splint made so can do most things now.
On top of that had a set to with my son. Mother's Day my son had phoned but was not exactly loviong and at one point got kind of surly about something I had asked him. Later in the week he phoned and I was quite frank about being hurt and he did not receive that gracefully. It kind of felt like my NB picking apart what I was saying instead of listening to me about what I was feeling and making it seem like I should not feel a certain way. Things escalated and went on from there to other things like him not being there for his Dad when he had a stroke last Aug through to now or me as I was trying to deal with all the fallout from that.
He was definitely dealing with a lot in his own life -struggling in 1st year medicine , being locked down with COVID and increasing depression. I told him I understood of course but that relationships are reciprocal and I had been there for him throughout despite what his F and I were going through. I was honest because he was doing much better - took a leave of absence from med school, started on an SSRI and was going to therapy as well as receiving support from the university/med program staff/faculty.
On MD I just felt so unappreciated and like I did with my H as he was getting through his stroke - taken for granted with no real understanding that I too was dealing with a lot while still providing support, love and encouragement to them both. I let him know that being pleasant and making a bit of an effort on Mother's Day was not too much to ask. Our conversation escalated and ended with him hanging up on me.
Since then I have reached out to let him know I was sorry if anything I said had hurt him and that perhaps we can try and talk things through once we've both had some time. I don't know how that will go but he does seem open to that least and has said he loves me and is okay. In my original family me being honest about my feelings would result in retaliation/silent treatment/a smear campaign and I have to admit I was really, really triggered thinking this would play out the same way.
Being able to be honest but also trying to repair ruptures like this are so much a part of recovery but IT IS SO HARD. It would be impossible in my original family, I would have had to apologize, grovel even. And of course I would be the bad, selfish daughter to extended family and friends, my covert N M would make sure of that. My son accepting my invitation to talk and repair things between us means I have not failed although for a day or two I sure felt that way. My Inner Critic had a field day while part of me was saying "No it's okay to be angry and ask for better treatment for yourself." Between that and this whole finger thing it has been quite a long week or so to say the least.
Dear Kizzie,
I read what you wrote, and wanted to send you a hug of support, as currently my words fail me to construct something helpful to say, apart from extending a hug of support :hug:
I can see you were trying to repair the rupture, and I think you did well to do that. Like you said, a contrast with your original family.
I hope that your baby finger recuperates well. You did well to type what you wrote with the big cast on it.
Take care,
Hope :)
Dear Kizzie,
I read your post as well. Too tired to say anything constructive but sending empathy :hug: :hug:
(((((Kizzie))))))
The one who helps everyone else.
You've had a lot on your plate. A LOT. And so has your son it sounds like. And see this is so beautiful that you both were feeling hurt and wounded and could safely share that with the other. You've built a different family than the one you grew up in and your son is learning too how to care for himself and you are teaching him how to honor and care for you.
The most important part of reconciling is helping each other feel heard and understood and respected. So that takes both listening with empathy and reflecting what the other is feeling AND sharing how you are feeling. This is what you are doing with your son despite how triggering it was for you. He's lucky to have you. :hug:
I hope it's alright just to do this -- :hug:.
I can directly relate to the broken finger and the huge cast -- happened to me twice, was an untimely nuisance but over time has healed. Hoping your injury progresses to a more healthy level.
The other similarity was your remarks per the FOO dysfunction blocking those communications. I'm also keenly aware of that which totally destroyed any semblance of 'family' for my life. I only have a distant sibling but I think she also has learned what my boundaries are (I don't care if she fully understands, though it would be nice) but it was hard to ever get this across 'til a surprise phone call from her a few weeks past.
I don't have the current family situation you refer to, I'm totally alone (a Walker-style 'freeze) but I did note your reference to how you, and your son, are both at least showing signs of a willingness to patch up some of the hurt. I hope this continues for each of you, as a growth process and not a permanent injury needing a metaphorical cast to repair the emotional hurt.
Please take good care. And, while I'm here, thank you for all you do for this forum and for those of us wandering about on it.
QuoteBeing able to be honest but also trying to repair ruptures like this are so much a part of recovery but IT IS SO HARD
You did it anyway. I echo Blueberry's observation that "He's lucky to have you." He will never know the pain and hurt that you've endured and what a gift that is. He won't know the awful feelings of having his parents crush his excitement and sense of worth. He won't know stonewalling and ultimatums from you.
The energy and courage it takes to pursue recovery and sit with all the feelings it brings up is (IMO) one of the hardest things we can do. You're a light to many. Best wishes for your continued healing of your finger.
Tks so much everyone, it reiterates for me why OOTS is so important for all of us, myself included. We can talk about things here we can't anywhere else and receive understanding, support and encouragement. I sure need that right now.
Feeling depressed because my son and I have not talked directly and the ghosts and demons are running in my head again. I did talk to my H and he was there for me so that helps me to sort through what I own, what my S owns and what I can do/say to repair the rupture. Will try a phone call with my S hopefully this weekend.
PS - Have gone from that ridiculously large half cast/splint to a sleek finger splint they made at the hospital for me the other day. MUCH better and can type again thankfully. :thumbup:
Kizzie, I'm sorry you've been struggling recently, and that mother's day was so difficult because you were treated badly on the day you should have been treated special.
It's great that your H was there for you, and things are a bit better with your son. I fully agree with Armadillo, your son is lucky to have you, as are we!
Quote from: KizzieBeing able to be honest but also trying to repair ruptures like this are so much a part of recovery but IT IS SO HARD.
This is very wise, it's great that you are able to recognize it. Wishing you strength for your mind, and your finger. I'm glad you got a splint instead of a cast, and I hope healing continues to go well.
All the best to you! :hug:
If it's ok I'll be sending you lots of mental support and hugs until you are able to talk with your son.
So my S and I talked yesterday and it was good. We chose together not to go over the whole MD issue just yet but we definitely got back onto better ground - he was making an effort to be caring as was I. I slept in until 1030 this morning because I felt so relieved. :zzz:
In my FOO conflict was never resolved and I was always dysregulated/triggered for long periods until I felt safe enough again, usually after a lot of groveling/penance or enough time had passed. It was only until I felt I was 'off the hook' that I could calm/regulate, but there was always residual anger/sadness and a feeling of hopelessness that I would never be heard, that I could never get angry without paying a huge price.
Anyway, I think now when my son and I do talk about what happened we will be able to do it calmly and listen to each other with an open mind/heart.
Tks for being there for me everyone, I really do appreciate it :bighug:
:bighug:
Really glad to hear that things went well, Kizzie. :hug:
Hope :)
That's so beautiful, that you guys could get back to a better place relatively quickly, even if all of the issues weren't dealt with. What a stark contract to your FOO, and that says so much more good about you and how you raised your son than I ever could. :)
Yay!!!!!!!! Yay! Yay! Yay!
I'm so glad you can breathe a little sigh of relief after talking with your son. You did a good job. Of course you'll want to revisit the MD incident and resolve that sometime and I think it is just so wise and healthy to take the repair at a good pace and not overwhelm either of you. Honesty is so important and I am proud of you for being honest with your son about your needs.
Wow! So glad you were able to reach of safe caring conversational spot with your son. And sleeping as late as 10:30? Priceless. :yes:
When my D and I have intermittent fall outs, I experience the same reactions. There's been a slight change though-sometimes we don't "revisit" things which caused a mutual retreat and hurt. Over time, we reconnect in ways that show there is new appreciation or understanding. A lot of it surprises me, shocks me even. :Idunno: Willingness to "be there" is the unspoken affirming message you're sending.
So happy you've gotten the monstrous cast removed and typing is possible again. I hope your finger heals completely.
Tks everyone, your support means a lot, truly.
Quote from: Kizzie on May 24, 2021, 05:48:42 PM
So my S and I talked yesterday and it was good. We chose together not to go over the whole MD issue just yet but we definitely got back onto better ground - he was making an effort to be caring as was I.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: So much good stuff in this one little paragraph! You're both doing the groundwork for getting back to the MD issue w/o overwhelming either of you.
Quote from: Kizzie on May 24, 2021, 05:48:42 PM
Anyway, I think now when my son and I do talk about what happened we will be able to do it calmly and listen to each other with an open mind/heart.
It sounds that way Kizzie! Both of you deciding not to go too far as yet, deciding together instead of one of you deciding over the other.
Quote from: Kizzie on May 24, 2021, 05:48:42 PM
In my FOO conflict was never resolved and I was always dysregulated/triggered for long periods until I felt safe enough again, usually after a lot of groveling/penance or enough time had passed. It was only until I felt I was 'off the hook' that I could calm/regulate, but there was always residual anger/sadness and a feeling of hopelessness that I would never be heard, that I could never get angry without paying a huge price.
This sounds pretty similar to my FOO. There was no wish to resolve conflict, certainly not fairly. I'm so happy you have a FOC where you and they can try out and use healthier methods of conflict resolving! That reflects back on you too Kizzie because you've been showing your H and your S the way. :thumbup: :hug: :hug:
i'm lending my support and care and a whole lot of gentle to you. so very sorry for your struggles.
i totally understand the idea about not getting angry cuz it comes back tenfold - been there too many times. i'm glad you were able to speak with your son and things seem smoother. love and hugs, kizzie, always. :hug:
Catching up on the recent bout of anxiety I am through it and realize that it was the Ambien I was taking that really exacerbated my CPTSD symptoms. I won't ever take it again that's for darn sure, it was truly awful and I never want to feel that scared again.
On the 'plus' side I now realize how distorted my thinking can be. Looking back I wasn't being abandoned and rejected as I thought, my S was mired in his own depression. (He sent a card for me with a card for his F on Father's Day and it was really lovely so he's in there and he does love me.) I can see that now that I am back to being regulated, but I couldn't because of the layers of abandonment and rejection that rise up and dysregulate me, this time to the nth degree because of the Ambien building up in my body.
I am going to hold onto this new found understanding of just what those layers can cause me to think and feel and hopefully that will help me when I trigger next time. Those feelings and beliefs are through the eyes of a terrified child who was alone, unsafe and unloved.
First time visiting here so I'm not completely up to date, but congratulations on your discovery, even if it was terribly unpleasant. Now you know! And yes to the terrified child feelings - that is my main way of identifying I'm triggered - when the emotions cause a life-or-death panic I almost get a record-scratch feeling of "wait.. what?" Luckily we're adults now, we're not completely dependent on the goodwill of others for our survival and well-being. The circumstances are different, we have way more control, and we will survive and thrive, even if we sometimes feel alone <3 It's not the same anymore.
Kizzie,
Thanks for sharing your Ambien story. It's a helpful warning & I think there's a lot to be gained from this as a cautionary tale.
Getting a card with the F's Day card is so sweet, I know the warm and fuzzies it brings. :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
Your post here is very powerful, especially with the particular language you use, both emotional and logical, in order to express the impact the ambien had on you. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It is a fresh re-traumatization, which is certainly not helpful!
I'm glad you are feeling better now and have learned what the problem was, to ensure it never happens again. It's also great how you have learned and found a positive in this awful experience! Your positivity is very encouraging to me, and I appreciate it a lot. :thumbup:
I'm glad things are looking up with your S as well, that is excellent news! :)
--
Something I've come to truly understand recently is how important it is to use people's preferred name. It is a simple yet powerful way to express respect and consideration. I like to decorate names here, because I could certainly use more respect and consideration in my life, and I'm sure it is the same for many others.
Based on this, would you like me to colour your name as well? If so, which colour would you like? It can be any colour you want! :)
<3 Jazzy
:hug:
I'm so glad there's a good explanation for the extraordinary symptoms you were experiencing and that you figured out the cause and could lessen the suffering. And so :cheer: that your S came through on F's day for you.
Tks A, J and B :hug: So glad to have that med out of my system and see/feel I am much more regulated than that led me to believe. Phew.
I think it's really great to realize you are "better" than you thought. :applause:
Quote from: BeeKeeper on June 28, 2021, 07:06:35 PM
I think it's really great to realize you are "better" than you thought. :applause:
:yeahthat:
I am so glad that I am actually doing better than my reaction to Ambien led me to believe. At the same time I am mindful that there is still an abyss I am frightened of that has to do with being along/abandoned/rejected so I will continue to work on that myself, with my T and here. Once it's out there and I'm talking about it it seems to defuel the fears/pain I have little by little.
I remember when I first realized that due to NPD my parents & B would never change and I had to let go of the hope/wish that I could get through to them, that they would be the family I wished for and deserved. So painful to see that awful truth, but the upside was I felt free in many ways to stop trying and to look after myself instead of expending all my energy trying, trying trying. Even the sadness/grief has decreased over time.
Tks again everyone for your support and care :grouphug: (me hugging you again :) )
Another thing that has risen to the surface over the past year or two is struggling with getting older, not only the physical changes but a sense of diminishment I feel, some of which comes from within via my CPTSD, and some through negative ageism out in the world. My H has been going through it also since retiring and then having a stroke.
I haven't talked about it here but I guess like anything in our lives, as survivors we're going to be affected by issues that relate to things like age and need a lens to view them through that incorporates our CPTSD/RTR.
This morning I came across the quote below from Sonia Connolly whose site Sundown Healing Arts I love. It's called "Nestle into Uncertainty" and is about dealing with our uncertain times but I took her message to frame the uncertainty of aging against. It left me with a new way of considering things; that is, my feelings had been quite negative about growing older. I had never thought of allowing myself to grieve that, but also to "nestle" into it, to be open to changing and adapting and good things.
Anyway, a nice way to start this day :thumbup:
Our favorite assumption is that our lives will continue to be the same in the future as they have been in the past. We might need to grieve the loss of certainty and stability as we adapt to a more open and flowing framework of assumptions. It makes sense to want things to stay the same so our old habits and patterns continue to carry us through our days. Navigating change takes more work and mindfulness.
We can remember that uncertainty holds good outcomes as well as bad ones. With compassion for our trauma-weary selves, we can learn to nestle into uncertainty like a hammock, finding support in its flexible weave.
That is a beautiful quote. Thank you for sharing it. I printed it to glue into my journal.
Thanks for writing about this Kizzie. I've felt the same, diminishment and grief for a year now. Also the incremental loss of "visibility." Aging seems to call for much more focus on decisions, legacy, self-care, all the while balancing and juggling the sense of safety in our changing world. You talk about grieving the possibility of a functional family, one that is caring, welcoming and supporting. This is the hardest- I still feel "cheated." Not sure if you have too. I'd like to off load that.
I like this:
QuoteWe can remember that uncertainty holds good outcomes as well as bad ones.
Thanks.
Thank you for your wise and positive words, Kizzie. What you've said about giving up unrealistic expectations of family is very impactful to me. :thumbup:
I'm sorry to hear you are struggling with things like aging. This is quite understandable, and I love how you found encouragement, then shared it with the rest of us here. :)
<3 Jazzy
Quote from: notaloneThat is a beautiful quote. Thank you for sharing it. I printed it to glue into my journal.
I really like how you took actions based on your feelings. I have learned many great things from your examples. Thank you,
Notalone!
<3 Jazzy
:hug:
I am sorry that you are feeling diminished, and H, too. You feel so wise strong and powerful (good power, I mean, like a protector/warrior) here. It must be really painful feeling.
One small gain I've made on this path to recovery is that I do know enough about my CPTSD to ask myself is that me projecting or am I really encountering ageism? Sometimes it's coming from my fear of not being valued, of being cast aside as an old woman who has nothing left to give or worse yet, losing visibility as you are finding BK. :disappear: Other times it does come from others/society, often in subtle ways that are now quite glaring to me.
Either way it does feed into the whole abandonment/rejection issue for me and dare I say anger at being cheated out of a more joyous life right up and into my 60's.
Hopefully that latter bit will change and younger adults will learn about relational trauma and CPTSD/RTR much earlier on than a lot of us here. (We're doing our bit here so good on us :applause: ) Plus there's the whole ACEs movement which is raising awareness and looking at what can be done for children and youth so I'm somewhat optimistic.
It's been a long while since I posted in my journal but I guess I need to talk about the things that are causing me to struggle so much or they will overtake me worse than they already have.
I have lost so much faith in the idea that I will ever recover from CPTSD, learn to live with it, integrate it, whatever. I started having anxiety attacks when I tried a few new medications recently. When my anxiety ramped up taking those meds I had the thought that professionals don't really know what they're doing and there is no-one and nowhere to turn for real help. The meds wore off but the thoughts stayed.
I had been reading a new book by two Cdn psychiatrists titled "Damaged". In it one author talks about a patient he's been working with for 20 yrs who is still suicidal and whom our health care system has failed in so many ways over the years (the book is about the need for a revolution in mental health care). It led me to think if this man was still struggling after lengthy therapy, where is the hope for me? And it made me lose faith in health care and finding the compassionate and knowledgeable treatment I have been trying to find for so long for myself. There are so many books and web sites now and yet I find myself doing worse.
Recently my doctor said she is losing faith in humanity and that stuck with me too. I'm losing hope after four years of Trump (his NPD as a leader and the damage it did), a Premier running the province where I live who is an N, two years of COVID and anti-vaxxers keeping the pandemic going, and more recently in Canada the "Freedom" convoy that took over our capitol city Ottawa.
The last situation was like the straw that broke the camel's back I think. It shot me back to being held hostage, of being trapped by N parents and there was nothing I could do. It has taken three weeks for the police to finally start moving the trucks and 'protesters' out of Ottawa and in that time, I felt again the powerlessness and fear I did when I was younger, when Trump got in office, when the Premier here denied COVID and would not take the needed protective measures until forced to do so. It all gave rise to such a deep feeling of powerlessness and despair in me, a belief I guess that bullies win and there is nothing I or anyone else can do.
I don't feel like I've come to terms with the beliefs and feelings I was gifted from N abuse. It rises up and makes me feel unsafe in the world and with people. I want to feel safe, but I don't. I want to feel I have power in the world but I don't. I want to feel like I can recover from CPTSD but I'm not certain any more. I'm waking up daily now having panic attacks. I am tired and scared and I don't quite know what to do.
Hi Kizzie
I was watching this Ottawa action.. but I just turned it off after reading your post... it's not doing me any good right now either.
I am sorry you're discouraged... and I wish I could give the kind of thoughtful advice and encouragement to you that you give to everyone here :)
But I hear you and I offer you my support and love. It's not much but it's all I have right now.
And my thanks as well.. you've already made a difference in my life :) :hug:
I hope you find what is needed to ease your panic attacks and fear.
Thank you for sharing
Quote from: Kizzie on February 19, 2022, 04:28:37 PM
I don't feel like I've come to terms with the beliefs and feelings I was gifted from N abuse. It rises up and makes me feel unsafe in the world and with people. I want to feel safe, but I don't. I want to feel I have power in the world but I don't. I want to feel like I can recover from CPTSD but I'm not certain any more.
I heavily relate to this, Kizzie. I feel this way a lot. It's particularly hard when there are things that are external to use and completely beyond our power to do anything about except struggle to manage our reactions to. Wishing you strength and fortitude for that struggle, and the hope that your helpless feeling eases soon. :hug:
I'm sending you as much comfort and hope as I can muster right now. I know we are all on the roller coaster. I can't offer any certainty that it'll ever end. But I do know there are days or weeks when the despair feels like it'll last but it does usually settle into something more comfortable. I live for those days where things feel good, as a compass pointing toward what direction I am travelling so I can know that there actually is a better way of feeling and that sometimes it is within reach.
In my book, when we ourselves are suffering, it is ok to tune out the outside world and focus on the good. I don't even read the news anymore at the moment. I know that menu of good is too small right now for you and others. You are a caretaker and that is exhausting. Your son is in healthcare and that is fraught with worry and disgust at people's behaviors. Your N parents are still alive and even tho you are LC their presence in the world still casts a shadow on your life.
But then there are good good people out there. You are one of them. You have and have built a huge good circle for yourself and others. I wish that alone were enough to erase the bad. It's not. But the bad doesn't win here in the safe and loving places you have created. It sucks that it doesn't erase the pain or heal the injury, and it sucks that medical professionals don't know how to heal this. It sucks that society tolerates child abuse and offers no help to children and adults who have been traumatized.
Just be patient with yourself as you manage this period of panic attacks, OK? They are scary and difficult and it's not fair that they are there and it isn't your fault they are there. I hope relief comes soon for you. :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
I'm sorry you're feeling like that and I do feel like that too. If you were in Ottawa when the convoy was there, I can imagine it would be difficult for anyone emotionally even if you didn't have a trauma background. Coping with that with a trauma background would be so much worse. I'm sorry if you had to go through that. :hug:
I'm trying to focus on finding the "reasonable" solutions in the world. That there are people who are defending the rights of the people and not their own interests and checking the government when it oversteps its bounds; that 75% (?) of Canadians don't want those people in Ottawa and that they're actually being funded from alt right groups in the US. It makes me proud that people are standing up and saying we don't want that alt right garbage in Canada. People are mystified IMO by these people because things have gotten worse for a lot of people over time in the US with increasing economic divide and lack of proper education, and they are telling them what they want to hear. Also, Facebook shouldn't get away with what they're doing by curating the "information" through algorithms that people see and believe.
Anyways, rant aside, it is very much like being governed by bad NPD parents but there are other reasonable people out there who see these people for what they are and don't want to be governed by NPDs either. I'm finding it very difficult where I live right now in that people don't treat each other very nicely and the pandemic has been the biggest mess imaginable, but there are also glimmers of hope in the lawyers that are taking the government to court for the corrupt decisions they made. Will it be enough? I don't know. A lot of people still believe in the garbage he says. Maybe the government doesn't help us, but there are other people out there who do with things that aren't conventional either. Maybe wanting the government to be there for us is just an extension of wanting our parents to be there for us, and it's the same fantasy? But outside the fantasy we find we have the solutions?
With regards to the therapy, I think going out of the box really helped. My t is open to suggestions and EMDR has been helpful, but so has IFS and a kind of meditation which is essentially soul retrieval. It doesn't sound "normal" but it's been working so far and I'll see what happens. I'm sure you've made progress too. I've been looking at Pete Walker and his idea of "good enough" relationships. Maybe there is no fully cured but we have these "good enough" relationships?
It's a long post but I wanted to say that I get it and to hang in there. Hopefully people will begin to see things outside of their own beliefs and the humanity in other people again.
Sending you support,
dolly
So kind of all of you, thanks from the bottom of my heart. :grouphug: I've been so reluctant to write about how I'm doing because I don't want to discourage anyone here but I am coming to see I need to be honest with myself and others. I love that you get it and despite what you're struggling with take the time to offer support and care. Tk you all.
I have moments when I'm OK, but still the panic sets in when I wake up and stays with me all day until around 5 when I have a meal and watch TV. That seems to distract and calm me right through until morning and then it starts again. At least there is some reprieve from the anxiety. I keep telling myself over and over I am safe and trying to look at the good things, the positives. It's such a struggle to bring the anxiety down, to regulate.
I have actually looked at all the stories and pictures of the police in Ottawa because it's absolutely what I need to see and take into my heart. That Canada is a nation based on the rule of law, that there are loads of us who don't agree with the 'freedom' those involved in the convoys want, and also loads who see that this is an effort by the US right to infiltrate Canada. It's been like living in an N home - all the noise N's make and the chaos/drama and after a while you can't think straight of feel any sense of calm.
Having CPTSD means I don't have the resources the non-trauma population does to cope. When I'm exposed to N abuse it wears me down just like the N abuse did when I was a child and throughout most of my adult life until I went NC/LC. It's all about regulation and I haven't gotten far enough along in that. I am going back to therapy this week but I'm not feeling particularly positive about it at the moment. I really like my T but I don't have a whole lot of faith in available treatments right now. I did go for EMDR when Trump got into power in the US and it helped so am going to discuss that with her.
Tk you again for sharing and sending support, it means a lot.
thanks for letting this out, kizzie. i hope it was helpful for you to do so.
the politics going on here in the u.s. are atrocious. i've never seen anything like this in all my years of being politically active. it was no wonder to me that so many young men fled to canada during vietnam. what's gone on in the u.s. has at times made me sick.
i like what you said about having c-ptsd and not being able to cope in the same way as non-traumatized people. somehow that was comforting for me. being a therapist, i often put more expectations on myself as far as getting thru things in a reasonable manner. however, there really is no rhyme nor reason when it comes to trauma. it plays by its own rules, punches under the belt, and walks away laughing.
at my age, going on 75 this year, i find little hope that i will ever be 'normal'. too much damage for too long, and not enough time ahead. my T says she believes it can be done - i told her i'll keep coming back, but i'm only flying on her hope cuz mine is done. i'm glad for you you'll be seeing your T again - mine is versed in EMDR and we utilize it frequently. as a suggestion, see if she knows the 'flash' method. it helps get one thru emotionally - charged memories/incidents/situations without the same pain being felt in real time. it's helped me a lot and i've been able to make more progress than i would have thought possible. (this method is available online - my T used the tutorial to train herself in it. maybe a shortcut, but i'm glad of it)
keep taking care of you as best you can, ok? the state of mental health aid is poor, no doubt. hopefully, some docs are coming around, even recognizing stress as a major player in physical symptoms. just know you're not alone, kizzie. we've got you. love and hugs :hug:
Hi Kizzie
Hope you are doing well .. sending support and love your way today. :hug:
Hi San and Phil - tks so much for your words of support :hug:
I have start therapy again (ran out of insurance coverage in 2021) and we're going to do some targeted or focused EMDR. Just going thru safety and grounding. I may also do a bit of CBT given I seem to be stuck in the world and people are unsafe mode.
I also saw my GP and she upped my meds and is referring me to a psychiatrist so s/he can tweak my meds if need be and as needed. Where I live you get one appointment to discuss meds and that's it, you are referred back to your GP. Shortage of psychiatrists and funding like most everywhere.
Fingers crossed some/all of this helps.
Can't write here much at the moment but do appreciate your posts.
:hug:
Take care of yourself as you adjust medications and restart therapy, Kizzie.
Tks Armee :hug:
Kizzie, thank you for sharing and being honest. Your feelings and thoughts are important. You deserve to be heard and cared for.
Hi Kizzie,
Glad that you are receiving support from your T and going to try some more EMDR. These are things the child you couldn't do in your N home and you are taking care of yourself. Like Not Alone said, you deserve to be heard and your feelings are valid. You don't have to have all the answers for us here.
I know it might sound out there, but I've realized this week again what a huge impact gluten has had on me emotionally. Maybe the link between gluten and anxiety is something that you might find interesting.
Thanks for sharing,
dolly
Tks Not Alone and Dolly, I really didn't want to discourage anyone so kept this to myself mostly, but it needed to come out and I agree we should be able to share our doubts about recovery. I do think now though that I am seeing things through a lot of anxiety right now and that colours my perceptions, leads me to darker thoughts than normal (versus darker thoughts leading to more anxiety).
The reason I say that is I went into my doc this past week and she, with the help of a psychiatrist colleague came to the conclusion it may be the SSRI I'm on that is causing me so much anxiety. Ironic. So I'm switching to a different one this week and a second med to see if that helps. If it's the case that my anxiety reduces then it might also explain why I seem to be reacting to new medications for other things lately. (i.e., It isn't them, it's my SSRI.)
Anyway, fingers crossed. Meds are such a crap shoot. :stars:
you're right, kizzie, meds are a total crapshoot. always an experiment. fingers crossed you get to the bottom of this.
actually, it's been comforting to me to know you struggle with some of the same things i've struggled with, so thank you for your courage in posting about them here. i've found emdr and talk therapy have been very helpful for me - sometimes i just need to get the poisonous thoughts out! and have a cooler head steer me in a more stable direction. best to you with it all. it sounds like you're getting a lot of support from many different angles. i like it. love and hugs :hug:
Tks San, I'm glad my being honest helped you and if much of what I have been going through is partially or fully a result of my meds, I do think that's helpful for others to know.
We'll see how it goes. Fingers crossed as you say. :hug:
My fingers are crossed for you Kizzie :hug:
Hope :)
Tks Hope :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
I hope the change in medication goes well, rooting for you :cheer:
dolly
Tks Dolly :hug:
Good luck with your new therapy, Kizzie. Hope it really helps! :hug:
Tks BB, if not I may seek inpatient treatment like you.
Miss you :hug:
I hate that I am not doing well at 66 and wonder if I will ever be OK. I thought if I just worked away at therapy I would improve, recover and while things are better in many respects, there's so much that is still hard to live with. I don't know how to be happy, content, relaxed, count my blessings, all those positive things I hoped would come my way that are still eluding me and I'm not sure why.
For me it has come down to trying different approach - Ketamine assisted therapy because I am desperate to feel better. I don't want to feel the weight of CPTSD for what's left of my life, I want it to lift and let me live. I hope it will help.
I'm also looking to taper off my SSRI since it seems to be causing more anxiety than it is helping. This is fraught with problems as I read more and more about withdrawal. I am quite frightened. The key seems to be tapering very, very slowly so I'm going to send my GP some info about this (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7970174/). My mistake has been thinking GPs and other professionals know about such things. Often they don't and we get caught in the knowledge gaps.
kizzie, best to you w/ trying ketamine therapy. i hope it gives you some relief. at 74, i've had many of the same thoughts about getting better as you. the whole aspect seems daunting.
as far as withdrawing from anti-depressants, going slowly is definitely the key. my experience w/ getting off an ssri needed a lot of patience and 9 mos., but by reducing the amount in small increments at least 1-2 weeks at a time, i experienced no side effects at all. maybe i was being too cautious, and it could have been a lot shorter time, (or that much caution isn't needed w/ different types of ssri's), but i'm just saying it can be done.
i do so hope you get some relief from these terrible c-ptsd symptoms. standing right by your side w/ this. sending love and a hug filled w/ hope and support. :hug:
Tks so much San. I am going to send the article to my GP this morning as we're scheduled for a telephone call later today. The anxiety just won't go away. Basically I am held together with other medications right now and not doing well so perhaps we have gone too quickly. We can't get connected up with a psychiatrist here to help out so right now it's just her and I.
I hate this and I'm scared but take some hope in the fact that you managed to taper without reactions so tks for posting. :hug:
this crapola is scary, kizzie. please know i'm standing with you thru all of this. very sorry about the anxiety, but i do understand about meds holding us together. whatever it takes - just make it from today to tomorrow. that's all we have to do. hang tough - i'm hangin' right beside you. sending love and a hug filled w/ togetherness - you're not alone. :grouphug:
Tks so much San :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
I am also sending you a supportive and caring hug :hug: I hope that your new therapy will help.
Hope :)
:hug:
Kizzie, I'm sorry life is so hard. That sentence is really inadequate, but I feel sad that you aren't doing well.
I was on an SSRI for over a decade. I went off of it at a doctor's advice, but not a doctor's help. :Idunno: I thought that I lowered it slowly, but had bad effects. Going slowly seems wise.
Slowly is definitely the way to go. Good luck with the GP visit. gentle hugs if you want them.
As this whole medication thing unfolds I've been looking (of course) for others like me who have had trouble with SSRIs and found the web site "Surviving Antidepressants" which was started by a woman in 2011 who basically went through * trying to find the info and help she needed. It's a bit like Complex PTSD.
Not Alone, I was just reading something by a person this morning who thought that she could go off 25 mg of Zoloft because it was the lowest dose. It did not go well for her either. As I look around that site I see so many members who go incredibly slowly and decrease by very small increments to 0. If/when I make the decision to taper off fully (and I'm heading in that direction I think), I will do the same thing. Slowly, very slowly starting with the Zoloft and then onto the beno (Lorazepam) and then the sleeping pill Zolpidem, all with my GPs help hopefully.
best to you with getting off those meds, kizzie. i think it's very wise to do one at a time. when i was getting off my antidepressant, it was an interesting process. mine came in capsule form. my hub would open one of my meds and take out 5 of the little balls of medication inside, throw them out, and i'd take the med capsule minus 5 little balls. i'd stay on that regimen for a week, (maybe 2) then we'd do it again, this time taking 10 little balls out. it took me 9 months, but i had no neg. side effects at all.
i hope you find the process that works best for you. i had a nurse friend help me, as well as an online forum such as you described, designated for this particular med. can't remember the name. i think giving brain and body enough time to adjust to a small increment of difference was the key for me. love and hugs :hug:
OMG San, that's quite the image. Imagine having to pick little balls out of SSRI capsules to reduce the dose so you don't suffer withdrawal symptoms. My capsules have powder so I'm going to have to figure out how to do that. I'm sure that site "Surviving Antidepressants" will have some guidance.
I am more convinced I need to stop the meds so will talk to my GP again on Tues as we have another call booked.
I don't think the next few months will be good and I'm quite scared truth be told. My hope is that I can get my BP down and try the Ketamine assisted therapy and that it will help me thru all this.
we're with you, too, kizzie, as you go thru this. :grouphug: hopefully, that online forum will give you the guidance you need. best to you with the GP and getting all this straightened out. sending love and a hug filled w/ strength and answers. :hug:
Thinking of you always, Kizzie. Sincerely hoping you can get your BP down, and get your SSRIs reduced safely.
I wish I could more than just send words, but know that the words we send to you have our friendship in them. You're not alone.
Tks San and PC, it helps to have well wishes. :hug:
Sending hugs and wishes for a safely slow withdrawal, Kizzie. I don't blame you for being fearful of the next few months and even though lots of well wishers like to have us think positive thoughts I find it far more helpful to have realistic expectations. Then when it gets hard you can remind yourself "it's OK. I expected this. I knew it would be hard, and I can get through this."
In anticipation of a difficult few months is there any more support you can line up for yourself or for caretaking your DH so you can just take the time you need?
Actually Armee, my H has agreed to see a therapist which is BIG because he's ex Army and his family were not big on expressing emotions. But, he had a stroke in 2020 and knows how hard it was for me because I didn't have a lot of support so he has agreed to therapy while I go through this so he has some help.
I am also getting a fair bit of guidance from the "Surviving Antidepressants" web site - so glad I joined. It's a lot like here where you find out so many others have the same thoughts, feelings, symptoms, fears, needs, etc. It helps me to not feel so alone with this, just like OOTS helps me to know I'm not alone with my CPTSD.
We've both told the organizations we volunteer with we won't be available for a month or two. We're both retired so work isn't an issue thankfully.
Hopefully too I will be able to give the Ketamine a try and it will help me deal with the anxiety and withdrawal. Still have to get my BP down for that though. I am talking with my GP today and no doubt when she see's my readings will increase the medication for BP as it's still too high to go.
That IS big. Good job to both of you protecting your selves for this stretch.
It really is essential to get as much support for ourselves isn't it? It's times like these that remind me how much I tried to get through life on my own. That's a CPTSD legacy for sure.
Lately I find myself wishing fervently for the ability to dissociate again. I can't anymore and I find it painful and difficult to live in my skin without the ability to "go away". Here I am medicated to the hilt trying to get off Zoloft, having constant anxiety for months now and I wish I could go back and not feel any of this. But I guess I did feel it in so many ways and it took away big chunks of living and so many people.
I am not feeling hopeful or positive lately, I just want to reach a place where I feel happier, when the anxiety is only occasional, and where I don't have the desire/need to "go away" to escape this life.
gentle hugs if you want them Kizzie. We're all here for you as you experience this.
:hug: :hug: Kizzie. Standing with you as you go through this and sending hope.
Dissociation can be a blessing at times. Though that would be a backward step to dissociate uncontrollably and going backwards sucks...but I remember hearing that when kids first start using Dissociation it's an intentional strategy to disconnect and the problem is when it becomes automatic, frequent, and uncontrolled. So maybe there is a role for Dissociation used judiciously and in a controlled way. Maybe you could relearn it just a little to take the edge off while you adjust to feeling things? Dissociation through things like getting lost in a TV show? I dunno. I haven't made I to the stage of feeling things yet. Some limbo land between Dissociation and feeling. I wish for some relief for you, Kizzie.
Sending support and wishing you some much needed relief, Kizzie.
I think Armee might be onto something there about controlled dissociation... it sounds like an intriguing possibility,
However it works, we are all here for you and sending the absolute best wishes we can!
:bighug:
I second what Armee says. Even if you can't properly dissociate anymore, maybe you could zone out a bit in whatever way - TV, reading, crosswords or whatever else. In one of my previous inpatient stays finding what worked for you was skill-building for people with cptsd and bpd. There was a special group for it.
Hoping for relief for you anyway.
:bighug:
I had a session with the therapist at the ketamine clinic this morning and I was telling her about getting hit in Jan with 24/7 anxiety and that I could not dissociate anymore and she wondered if in part the anxiety may be due to my not having the ability to go away from (dissociate) or shield myself from the things that still frighten me, even adult me. That may have some legs although I also still think my body stopped tolerating SSRIs and I need to wean off of them. Maybe a bit of both though.
I told her if she's partly correct, I hope the Ketamine assisted therapy will help me to build in tolerance of /healthy shields against anxiety and fear while at the same time I'm tapering off the SSRI.
WRT the Ketamine clinic my GP wants one more week of BP readings then she will clear me to try the therapy. There are a couple of hoops after that on their end but if all goes well I should be giving it a try end Sep.
Wouldn't that be great if it went according to how I hope it will?
I do watch TV to zone out and fortunately that still works - wish there were better shows on. Hopefuly Sep will be better.
it would definitely be great, kizzie. here's hopin'!!! love and hugs :hug:
Tks San. :hug:
I realized yesterday I am far more depressed than I realized, crying a lot. Maybe it's the withdrawal from the SSRI and feeling things so much deeper. I finally let a lot of how afraid I am of a lot of things these days to my H. Scared him and me and now I know I must let my GP and therapist know how truly awful I am feeling. I tend to try and look/sound as functional as possible no matter what - goes to feeling I have to do everything on my own from my past I guess.
I do have an appointment today with a psychiatrist - finally managed to get one after months of my GP and I trying to find one. I will talk to him about all the anxiety and now depression, about withdrawing off the SSRI and about going for Ketamine treatment soon hopefully and see what he says. I hope he is one of the good ones and not determined to make me go through the * I've been thru with SSRIs already. I sent him a list of everything (meds) my GP and I have tried since Jan so hopefully he will see we've given it a good go and it's not working.
I am so tired. I really hope I can get to the Ketamine and that it does help lift me up out of this darkness so I can do whatever I need to to feel better. And I hope this psychiatrist is good, helpful, knows what he's doing.
so sorry, kizzie, for all you're going thru. what you describe could very well be w/drawal - maybe the shrink can give you a reality check for that. just get thru today, ok? sending love and a hug filled w/ hope. :hug:
Thinking about you all the time Kizzie,
I remember being hopeful and afraid before my first Ketamine infusion. I hoped it would work, but afraid it might not. If it didn't work, then that meant my depression was just plain incurable. I remember on the morning of the first infusion, the emotions were so high that all the way into Seattle in the back of the uber I was wearing my COVID mask and mouthing the words "thank you, thank you, thank you" out into the universe for the fact that the day had finally come, and I was minutes away from the experience. My fears were dashed at the first visit. It helped more than I'd even hoped it would. Now I'm hoping you find that same relief. I'm excited to hear about your experiences when they begin. I participated in the treatment because of crushing depression. You're going in with anxiety. So I'm interested in comparing our notes about the experience.
A note about dissociation: I don't dissociate easily anymore either and I also miss it at times. Sometimes I try to dissociate but it's like I just can't anymore. My brain won't do it anymore. But my T reminds me that it's because my brain is healthier now than it was. I understand my past now, so I'm more grounded than I used to be. Dissociation doesn't kick in anymore.
But dissociation was the devil I know, so sometimes I forget the 95% hardships and miss the 5% good that I got from it. I'm also a recovering alcoholic, so sometimes I miss being able to forget my problems in a bottle too, but in both cases, alcohol and dissociation, I took them too far and now they're no longer available to me at all. Now I'm left to live only in reality, and I'm not well trained on how to handle reality. It's too...real.
Dissociation was a hiding place from chronic anxiety. But like with alcohol, it worked but it wasn't the best solution. Now that I can't dissociate anymore, I have to find healthier ways to deal with real world.
Distraction. I think distraction is the healthy version of dissociation. It's the healthier way to not think about reality.
I've learned to distract myself away from the news. It's too real. I can't do anything about any of it, so why force myself to read the articles and watch the TV coverage of things that scare me?
I distract myself with physical things like reading a good book, watching comedy movies that don't have too much evil in them, cooking a complicated meal, putting together jig saw puzzles, pulling weeds by hand in the garden...stuff like that. I struggle with the fact that I don't have any hobbies. Music didn't work out for me in my lifetime so I can't play piano either. Some guys fish, or play golf, or collect coins, or build model railroads. I can't say that I have a hobby. So distractions have to be simpler than hobbies. A jig saw puzzle isn't a hobby, but it's an easy distraction. I can get lost for hours in a good puzzle. And living in the Pacific Northwest, I can find an endless supply of weeds that need pulling. I bought myself a little gardening stool to sit on, and if I don't wear gloves, I'm connecting my body to the earth. The coolness of the dirt and the contact with the earth seem to really calm me down.
And if you haven't watched it yet, remember the documentary video "Happy" is a really, really good video that puts real life into perspective. It's very helpful for me to watch that video at least once a year, sometimes more. It's too easy for me to start down the rabbit hole by thinking I don't have what is needed in order to be happy. The documentary shows how happiness really is within reach. It doesn't require excessive money, or good looks, or fame, or any of the other things the world says it does, but that I don't have. Whew! That's a relief.
OMG Papa, you have no idea how much I needed to hear (or rather read) this:
QuoteI remember being hopeful and afraid before my first Ketamine infusion. I hoped it would work, but afraid it might not. If it didn't work, then that meant my depression was just plain incurable. I remember on the morning of the first infusion, the emotions were so high that all the way into Seattle in the back of the uber I was wearing my COVID mask and mouthing the words "thank you, thank you, thank you" out into the universe for the fact that the day had finally come, and I was minutes away from the experience. My fears were dashed at the first visit. It helped more than I'd even hoped it would. Now I'm hoping you find that same relief. I'm excited to hear about your experiences when they begin. I participated in the treatment because of crushing depression. You're going in with anxiety. So I'm interested in comparing our notes about the experience.
I am also going in with a lot more depression than I realized, either because the anxiety has been masking it and tapering off the SSRI is revealing it or I am tired and depressed from all the medication switches - :Idunno:
Whatever the case I hope I am as fortunate as you and it helps lift me out of this anxiety and depression by igniting/tapping into parts of me that are sunk underneath and struggling for air.
Tks San :hug:
Dear Kizzie,
I know it's been a tough time for you lately - and I wanted to send you a supportive hug :hug: I really hope that you get some positive things from the infusion, and I want to give a gentle hug to the parts of you that are feeling sunk underneath and struggling for air, I really want to help them be buoyant and breathe easily - they and you deserve to breathe and live and thrive.
Hope :)
So lovely Hope, thank you :hug:
In terms of the Ketamine assisted therapy I am on track for, the blood pressure medication has done its job and so my GP will be sending over my readings on Tues after she and I talk. After that I have an interview with the psychiatrist and if that's all good two prep sessions with the therapist, then a trial dose following by the infusions (4-6).
I hope (fervently) this helps me to lift myself out of the anxiety and depression I've been fighting for so long because of this blasted CPTSD, that it helps me to feel better and live better. I deserve it and at 66 I don't want to wait for talk therapy anymore. I want to live a more positive and healthy life starting now.
:cheer:
Oh I so hope this helps!
:yeahthat: fingers crossed, kizzie. love and a hug filled w/ the prospect of living better :hug:
Tks you so much San and Armee, I really appreciate the support. I will of course keep you all posted, good or bad. We need to know how this whole Ketamine assisted therapy rolls out for us - no doubt there will be some good, some not so good but cumulatively what we record here helps us to make informed decisions for ourselves.
When (if?) I am ever well again to go back volunteering with the Complex Trauma Special Interest Group at the International Society for Studies in Traumatic Stress org, I fully intend to write about this whole experience with medications in general, SSRIs and Ketamine. There are a lot professionals who treat/support us need to know more about this subject that's for darn sure!! And we need to be more informed as well.
Apropos of nothing in particular other than we moved to Alberta to get away from the wild fires in BC, yesterday driving home from the doc's we see a big plume of smoke right about where our town is.
Sure enough as we get closer we see a huge grass fire on the southeastern edge of the town bumping right up to where the houses are. Fortunately our house is on the south western edge but geez, Mother Nature chases you down no matter where you live.
No-one lost a house, just a few trailers and outbuildings, but the whole of the pasture which was fairly large was burned and a small herd of cattle had quite the scare.
That's anxiety-producing! I'm glad your home and town were safe. The fires are getting more common even where they typically aren't a risk. I live on a wooded lot in a severe fire danger and severe drought area and there's a low grade anxiety June thru Oct every year.
And thanks for looking for ways to use your experience with ketamine to support the broader knowledge base about cPTSD treatment. You're a good one.
Yikes Armee, that would be hard to live with. I know we felt the same way when we were in BC. The wildfires there can be really bad. The year we decided to move here we had fires on three sides of us. Yup, that's it for us, outta here.
Right now as I type this it looks like dense fog outside with a blood red sun - smoke from wild fires in BC that has drifted here. Still can't get away from them entirely :snort:
I've heard the term "eco-anxiety" to describe the fear many of us are starting to experience because Mother Nature is starting to some pretty nasty weather to places she pretty much left alone before.
Yikes Kizzie, I'm glad you're safe!
Fires this year in all sorts of places they never were before or at least not for decades, e.g. in that traditionally rather water-logged country called Scotland. Also where I live - a traditionally also rather damp and not totally hot area of continental Europe. I was flabbergasted sometime in July when the local train got stuck due to a wildfire that got too close to the tracks. We're used to storms dropping trees on the tracks and snow issues, but wildfire??
I'm sorry Kizzie I hadn't realised before just how badly you've been doing with medication. I just hope that they can sort something out that works! Sorry my mind is a bit dozy on this topic - not one I know much about. :hug: :hug:
Kizzie,
I agree with Armee, our erratically changing global climate is anxiety producing and I believe it's a formidable contributor to why there's so much insanity in the news now. People are scared. In Seattle this year, we're not having our traditional fire season like we've been having over the past 5 years. But fire season is serious anxiety. It's claustrophobic inducing, because the smoke is so thick and there's nowhere to hide from it. Last year I bought a bunch of Hepa filter air purifiers for my wife and I and for our son's family in case it happens again, but this year, so far so good.
I hope to hear that your reduction in SSRIs is going well. I hope you and your doctor are achieving the results you need to start the Ketamine Treatments. I have scheduled my next K Infusion for a week from this coming Wednesday. It's been more than 3 months since my last infusion and I'm starting to struggle with depression and shame again. After the infusions, I spend a good, long time, not feeling so ashamed of myself for using the oxygen other people need to live their worthy lives. I'm starting to feel that again. I'm glad that the last infusion worked for over 3 months. Perhaps the more I do them, the longer they'll last. Then, when Micro dosing becomes legal, I can move to that cure, which I'm told works more permanently than Ketamine.
One thing, however, that Ketamine has done for me, which is so far proving to be permanent, is it's removed my fear of death. When I'm in the infusion, my body is still and my spirit is awake, and I feel like I'm in eternity, and that absolutely nothing that happens in this life on earth matters at all. I wonder if it's the same thing Near Death Experiencers learn when they say they didn't want to come back, but a voice told them it wasn't their time yet, so they were sent back into their bodies, and then they spend the rest of their lives completely unafraid of death. I'm feeling like that. So, the global climate changes, and all the threats of war and all the other icky stuff in the news doesn't scare me as much as it used to. I've not been suicidal since I started Ketamine, and I'm still not suicidal, but at the same time, I've updated my will to make me feel like I've done what I can to help my family if I die, but I've lost my fear of dying. I want to live better while I'm alive but being unafraid of death is helping me reduce daily anxiety.
personally, i think mother nature is simply pissed! :pissed: she's had so much to put up with for so long, she's fighting back. her trauma-infused brain has had enough abuse at the hands of too many humans. and i can fully relate to eco-anxiety. we had the experience of that blood-red sun 2 yrs. ago, and it was scary as all get out. plus, this summer of heat has been the longest summer i can recall. it's awful, plain awful. glad nothing of yours was injured in the fire you saw.
and field fires seem to be on the upswing as well, to my mind. there is such a feeling of being trapped when these fires surround us. i'm living in a relatively safe space now as far as fires, but the lengthy heat has caused my anxiety to go thru the roof. totally unexpected where i live. ugh! :hug:
Wow, we sure know how to mix in a variety of topics lol.
I don't know if anyone watched the show "The Affair" but at the end of the series the town where most of the story took place which was on the east coast was mostly underwater and/or destroyed by wild Atlantic storms. No-one went there anymore and it just broke my heart because it was such a lovely area as are so many of our coastal towns and cities. It was a glance into the near future and it was hard to contemplate. Mother Nature has indeed had enough but we humans don't really get that. That show drove the point home for me that's for sure.
I find it really interesting what you have to say about your experience with Ketamine Papa. I am hoping for a more "transcendental" experience of life, a lifting up of my spirit if you will from the pain and small world of trauma. Like you my plan is to keep up with Ketamine (if it works for me) and then switch to psilocybin assisted therapy when it becomes legal. The clinic I'll be with is working with Health Canada on psilocybin clinical trials for PTSD so will be putting my name on the waiting list for Complex PTSD that's for sure.
My reduction of the SSRI became a little less smooth this past week or so, partly because I think we're now going a bit too fast with the taper and also because a whole situation arose with our son that triggered me big time. Can't even talk/write about it yet but it sure came at a bad time.
I will be talking with my GP again tomorrow and the head of the Ketamine clinic comes back so should have some news about the way forward. I hope so, I am so tired and I want life to calm the YKW down for me. ;D
:hug:
So I have actual appts with the Ketamine clinic for the prep sessions and psychiatric evaluation finally. The psych eval isn't until Oct 4th but they have me on the cancellation list so fingers crossed it will be earlier. I don't have any concerns about it so after that it's on to the trial dose and if I'm not allergic, it's on to the actual infusions.
It sure took a while to get to this stage. I had to go on a blood pressure medication (thankfully this process caught that I needed to), record the readings for a few weeks, then get labs done and have a physical.
I am excited and scared at the same time. I just so want life to be better. lighter, less trauma focused....
yeah, kizzie, i hear you about life being so trauma-focused and how nice it will be when it's otherwise. very glad to hear you've got your appt. too bad it's still nearly a month away. hang tough, ok? light at the end of the tunnel? and hoping they have a cancellation and you can get in sooner. thank you so for sharing this process. love and hugs, my dear :hug:
Warm hugs to carry you along till the treatment can fully get started. I wish people who want us to get past it could see how much you and we truly want to do that...are desperate to.
Also hugs for the triggers with what's happening that you aren't able to write about yet. :grouphug:
You know, I want life to be lighter and more joyful for all of us. I am hoping against hope that the promise of these psychedelic medications to assist therapy and promote real and lasting healing are the way for all of us to a much better quality of life. I feel like right now we slog along in therapy, some of us on psychiatric medications for years or like me decades, and we do make some progress but it's not fully living (IMO), it's just a step or two above survival level a lot of the time.
I know a lot of that has to do with the fact that Complex PTSD was not on the books until recently and even now too few know about it sadly. We're the "behind the closed doors" gang, no medals of honour for us for battlefield service PTSD even though we had to fight to survive on a different kind of battlefield, most of us as children.
Rambling and ranting again lol, good for the soul. On a positive note, I have seen a lot of research into the power and promise of psychedelics to heal so I guess that means clinicians and researchers do understand the pain of PTSD at least and hopefully by extension at some point Complex PTSD.
Word to that! My T really wants me to try the psychedelics for cptsd but I am terrified of messing up my brain more and trusting myself less, lol. I'm grateful for those willing to test it out for us.
I'm with you Kizzie,
I'm so frustrated that C-PTSD gets a little better every year, (due to me spending thousands on therapy and medications), but it never goes away. Harmless psychedelics, which often grow wild in our lawns, are promising to do miraculous things which will help millions of people find joy and peace in our lives.
I'm excited to get my next Ketamine infusion next Wednesday. I keep hoping that as I do these treatments, they'll work for longer. I did two the first week, two the second, then one the third, one the fourth, and went back for a refresher only 30 days later, but now I've gone over 3 months for the 8th infusion. I hope I can go 4 months, then 6 months after that. I hope. For me, The US doesn't require I combine Ketamine with Therapy, and I wish it did. My therapist has never experienced Ketamine Infusions, so he relies on me to describe them to him. Fortunately, he's good at helping me interpret my emotions and feelings after the infusion, but it's really not his specialty since he's never done it. And usually, I debrief with him up to two weeks after the infusions. I wonder if immediate debriefings would help bring about more substantial healing.
I hope that your system there in Canada brings even better results by having debriefings with a qualified counsellor immediately after your treatments. Most articles I've read about all the psychedelics used in this treatment is that it really works best if given in a clinical setting with a qualified counsellor to help interpret all that you saw or experienced during the treatment. For anyone trying to go cheap and do it themselves at home, the results are not as powerful. Never-the-less, if I can one day find that I can purchase some legally, I'll start doing it at home just to get whatever I can get. For now I'm just waiting on the laws to improve. Heavy sigh.
And so I wait for the laws to change so that one day, I will have a good, quality experience with true psychedelics. Ketamine is the most helpful thing I've ever done, but it's a tranquilizer, not a psychedelic. It works great. But I'm told psychedelics work even better.
I didn't realize your T was suggesting you try psychedelics Armee. I guess that's one reason why I am writing as much as I can about my experience and am grateful to Papa for writing about his - so others can see what our treatment was/is like. I don't know if it's right for everyone but at least members here will have some insider perspectives to read and consider.
I too have spent a ton on therapy over the years Papa (fortunately my medications are covered). If these treatments work to promote actual healing as the research is suggesting, in the end it will cost us and our insurers far less than years of talk therapy and psychiatric meds where we inch forward year after year. If I wasn't so old and my SSRI hadn't stopped working I'd probably still be doing the same thing and not trying Ketamine. But here I am and I hope to heaven it works.
I did read an article somewhere - I may have post it I can't remember -- where there is a bit of a debate about whether or not Ketamine is a psychedelic. Some say yes, others no. I'll see if I can find it. Found them, there's two - see https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=14841.msg123407#msg123407.
One thing I wanted to bring up in my journal today is to why I don't often post in other members journals. It's because I was raised by an N and I get very caught up in other peoples lives and let my own slide. I made a promise to myself the day I realized this to stay out of the journals so I wouldn't let my focus on my recovery slip - too easy when you've been trained to give but not receive, listen, but not speak. If you're a survivor of N abuse you likely get what I'm saying.
I am hoping with the Ketamine therapy I will be better able to write about both my life but also to respond to journal posts by others without ending up leaving myself out if that makes sense. :stars:
it makes total sense, kizzie. as always, do what's best for you. i think it's wonderful how you and PC are writing about your experiences w/ alternates to traditional meds. i don't know if it would be right for me, either, but i appreciate the knowledge and info you're adding to my skill set. thanks for sharing all this. and i agree, kizzie - this type of treatment could save so much money, pain, and suffering for those to whom it's helpful. i sincerely hope you find relief w/ it. love and hugs :hug:
I was breaking down at the thought of waiting for another whole week for treatment to start so phoned the clinic Fri and asked for my session earlier and they complied! I now go this coming Tues instead of Fri and that has done so much to calm me down. I felt like I was absolutely falling apart waiting and I guess they got that. It has been a really long go, nine months of 24/7 anxiety that then fueled depression.
Huzzah and please oh great universe, let this work for me!
Quote from: Kizzie on September 17, 2022, 10:44:02 PM
I was breaking down at the thought of waiting for another whole week for treatment to start so phoned the clinic Fri and asked for my session earlier
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Good on you for asking!
Quote from: Kizzie on September 17, 2022, 10:44:02 PM
and they complied!
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
So so happy and relieved for you Kizzie :hug:
Tks BB. :hug: Just two more sleeps as we used to say to our son.
:hug:
You're doing great advocating for yourself and I know how hard it is for those of us with this background to feel worthy of asking for extra help. Thank you Kizzie because it helps all of us and I hope you get some relief real soon.
Much Love,
K/Armee
:yeahthat: what armee and blueberry said. thanks so much for sharing this experience, kizzie. fingers crossed that you get relief soon! love and hugs :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
Wow, that is exciting that you'll be having that treatment soon, and I think it's great that you advocated to get it sooner.
:hug:
Hope :)
Tks Hope, one more sleep to go.
fingers crossed and prayers flying that you find some relief, kizzie and your treatment goes well. love and hugs :hug:
Well, today's the day for my first Ketamine therapy treatment and I am so nervous/anxious but also excited.
My bag is packed with a fuzzy blanket, face mask, water and iphone with the app downloaded that I will listen to while under the ketamine. They have one for each session.
I have read through both pamphlets they sent twice and worked out my intentions for the session as requested.
It's not even 7 AM and I don't have to be there until 0945 ;D
Please, please, please let this go well for me like it has for others.
:grouphug:
:grouphug:
:grouphug:
:grouphug:
:grouphug:
Rooting for you Kizzie :grouphug:
Sadly it did not go well but I honestly don't want to discourage anyone else from trying. I have a whole bunch of medication issues going on that I think interfered with getting what I should have out of the session. My BP was really high going in and coming out which is not good.
I will be talking with one of the clinic psychiatrists at 1 today and I suspect he will say I will need to get my anxiety under control via Risperidone or some other non-SSRI, taper right off the Lorazepam and Zolpidem before I can try another session. Or he may say Ketamine is not for me :Idunno:
I must say I've never been on quite the trip like that so Papa in my books Ketamine is definitely a psychedelic. Definitely a wild ride!! It may have been too high a dose in addition to my own medications in the mix. :Idunno:
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you Kizzie :hug: :bighug:
Dang.
I was so hoping you'd find the peacefulness I find in the Ketamine infusions.
I did get my anxiety under control before my first infusion, by banning myself from all news, local and world. I don't know what the infusions would have been like if I'd have started them sooner, while my anxiety was still in full swing.
I hope you're doing okay today.
so sorry, kizzie, that it did not work out the way we all hoped. i guess like all drugs/meds, it's an experiment to see what works and what doesn't. best to you in your continuing endeavor to find some relief. this just sucks, unfortunately. i so hope you find the right combo and soon. love and hugs filled w/ support and caring. :hug: :hug:
:bighug:
You gave it a try and your intention is to heal. Something will work. It's so hard though I'm so sorry this was not the trick.
Hi Kizzie,
I hope you were able to get something out of the session even if it was not what you had intended. I've had things show up in IFS that have taken me a while to understand, or maybe that I understood it on some level but took a while to see how it applied to my life.
Well done for trying though. Sometimes you have to go down all the roads to find the right one, even if it is frustrating at the moment.
Sending you support,
dolly
Tks everyone :hug:
I did end up talking to another psychiatrist there (they have 4 or 5 which is pure gold) yesterday, great conversation and by the end I was willing to try again. He told me about about client my age with really high anxiety too and they are going to lower the dose for him and for me because the Ketamine does work in the background really well. Apparently you don't need to have a big trippy trip and meet little aliens and such for it to be effective. Thank the universe for that because that whole psychedelic thing is NOT for me. The psych knew that my protective part took me out of the trip at the end because it was too much for me and that I would need a lower dose, much less fuss, more calm. I will likely do my therapy session on a separate day because again, it and the Ketamine are too much on one day. Papa you do that and I know at the other clinic I had contacted they do that as well so it's not absolutely necessary to do both on the same day. It was just way too much for this very anxious senior.
He also told me not to do anything about the meds I'm on (i.e., don't taper) because that will send my anxiety too high to get through the process and he will be happy to talk with my GP about keeping things as they are. Gold I tell you, gold. That's the benefit of paying more.
He also recommended I don't go on Risperidone, that it is NOT a good choice for me and that if by the end of the six sessions I still need something he/they will consult with my GP to find the best med for me. But he thinks by the end I may be able to manage on my own without any psychiatric meds just as I wanted. That's exactly why I'm there. He told me there is good evidence about Ketamine working away in the background to tame anxiety and depression. BTW he agrees with the other psych who evaluated me that I have clinical depression and that is what Ketamine does best with. Tame the depression through Ketamine treatments nd finish tapering off the SSRI and the anxiety should resolve. Fingers and toes crossed.
So as nervous as I am I will keep going. I really like the psych and felt like he genuinely listened and will do his level best along with the staff to make this work for me. No more trips thankfully though!
Quote from: Kizzie on September 22, 2022, 02:56:32 PM
The psych knew that my protective part took me out of the trip at the end because it was too much for me and that I would need a lower dose, much less fuss, more calm.
This is great Kizzie, that your protective part did that and protected you. I am so glad that you were able to have that helpful discussion with that psychiatrist, and that you can try the treatment again, but at a dose appropriate to your needs. Fingers crossed for you.
Also a hug :hug:
Hope :)
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
This brings me so much joy that they are not giving up, are trying to adjust to you and that they will talk to GP after so it won't just be you and her trying to figure meds out. :grouphug:
Tks Hope. It was actually a complete surprise when protective me zoomed in and took back the reigns of control. I kept saying, "I failed, I failed" and I was just so distraught. I didn't see it as a good thing it did for me until the next day.
When I talked to the psych yesterday he and I talked about that protective part coming online to do its job because the dose was simply too high for me considering my anxiety. He actually admitted that dosing is still the part of Ketamine Treatment regime they don't have nailed down really well yet. I was amazed he admitted that but truth be told I had read it in a lot of the journal articles ( i.e., that more research is still needed around dosing). What he wants to do now is not engage that protective part by too high a dose, too much going on in one day, and not enough anxiety med on board. We need for it to sit quietly in the background and let the Ketamine do its thing.
I didn't take anything that day of treatment as some of the literature I was given talked about it blocking the effects of Ketamine. Big mistake and by 230 PM after being up since 5 AM my body was screaming for something. After the crash landing in the Ketamine session the therapist was talking away to me about different breathing exercises and in my head I could hear myself saying "Please stop talking, that won't help right now" and then I escaped to the bathroom and took some Lorazepam. That helped.
My clinic is collecting data on this so my experience will be reported which as someone who totally supports research makes me happy- the experience will not fade away, never to be learned from. Part of what they've already learned from me and the other client my age with bad anxiety is that they have to approach us differently, dose wise, how much they therapy we can take in one day, etc. That they are willing to learn and adjust is awesome in my books.
Yay Kizzie on so many counts :cheer: :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
Congrats! I'm happy for you that your clinic is showing you that you matter :hug:
Also, I feel like I might need a macrodose with psilocybin but I don't feel "prepared." I'm suspecting that what I might be shown might be too much to handle, or maybe something I've been blocking but in my own time I guess. I've been reading Stanislav Grof and he did work with LSD and patients in the 50s 60s and 70s. I found his book When the Impossible Happens: Adventures in Non-Ordinary Reality pretty interesting. It kind of gives a framework (well sort of) for the things that can happen in a psychedelic experience. It's interesting that a lot of the work deals with difficult births, but also a lot of other stuff.
The IFS talk with Michael Mithoefer that I posted elsewhere also talks a bit about about protective parts overriding the experience when on psychedelics.
Sending you support,
dolly
kizzie, so very glad to hear you have a sympathetic shrink who is taking you seriously and is offering reasonable explanations and alternatives. as you said, gold. very glad, too, you have your lorazepam to help you thru - sometimes it's our tried and true meds that do the trick where :blahblahblah: just doesn't cut it anymore.
best to you with round #2. i do hope you get some relief next time around. this crapola just messes w/ us all the way around. :stars: love and a hug filled w/ better results next time. :hug:
I'm going to have to find that IFS talk you mentioned Dolly, that's so interesting that that is what happened with me. That protective part just shot in guns ablazing and overrode the experience. It really was the weirdest thing. I see now why/how dosing matters when it comes to psychedelic therapy and why it was identified as much needed research.
I for the life of me cannot see ever using any of these psychedelics recreationally - OMG, so not my idea of fun!
My GP said the same thing when I told her what it was like. She's likes to be in control too much, just like me. Anyway, I personally think one criteria for psychedelic assisted therapy in terms of dosing should be whether or not the person has ever tried a psychedelic before and if not, you probably want to ease them into it dosewise. Babysteps.
Tks so much San, I am quite scared but don't want to miss out if this is going to help in the end. Plan B is for my GP to talk with the clinic psych around midway about the possibility of a psych med if the Ketamine is not kicking in. So I do have a backup and with some very good expertise to guide my GP and I.
Quote from: Kizzie on September 23, 2022, 03:10:16 PM
I'm going to have to find that IFS talk you mentioned Dolly, that's so interesting that that is what happened with me. That protective part just shot in guns ablazing and overrode the experience. It really was the weirdest thing. I see now why/how dosing matters when it comes to psychedelic therapy and why it was identified as much needed research.
I for the life of me cannot see ever using any of these psychedelics recreationally - OMG, so not my idea of fun!
My GP said the same thing when I told her what it was like. She's likes to be in control too much, just like me.
I think the Robert Falconer episode (can't remember if I posted it) also talks about preparation sessions and meeting with your protectors and asking them if they have any fears etc, getting them to step back etc. I'm sure there are very good reasons why you need your reality to be in a way that makes you feel safe and in control.
Not doing well at all so have emailed my GP for med to control this anxiety and emailed the Ketamine clinic to ask if I can pause my treatment until the meds kick in.
I so wanted off psych meds and maybe someday after the Ketamine that will happen but right now I'm just having trouble making it through the day so meds it is.
Just a crying mess at the moment.
:grouphug:
Kizzie. I know how badly you want just to feel better. I am so sorry that this is so hard. I hope you get quick relief from restarting medication. Also...trauma therapy can be pretty dysregulating too and if you did something substantially different in the clinic that may be adding to the distress too.
dearest kizzie, sending so much support and care your way. i can feel your distress thru the screen. hang tough, ok? hangin' right beside you! love and gentle hugs. :hug:
Dear Kizzie,
I have been thinking about you, and hoping that you will be able to feel better soon. I know it's a really hard time for you at the moment, and your emotions are prominent, but I hope that you get some relief and safety and that you are ok.
:hug:
Hope :)
Tk you all so much.
Kizzie,
Thinking about you all the time. I'm glad to hear that they might be able to reduce the dosage and that the Ketamine will work even with a smaller micro dose.
Also, your inner protector report is fascinating. I can see how that protector could do that to you. Mine tries, but I'm able to get past him. But the whole idea that your inner protector is making your treatments difficult leads me to want to start working with my inner protector too. Mine won't allow me to meditate for very long. As soon as I really feel like I'm almost "in the zone" my protector forces me to think about where I am, and what I should be doing with my time instead of relaxing.
I'm very glad you have those psychiatrists helping you. I sure hope they can get you some relief.
You're still in my prayers every day.
I'm sorry it's so difficult atm Kizzie :bighug:
I talked with one of the program psychiatrists yesterday and he has put me on Gabapentin 500 mg x 3 times daily to see if that brings down the anxiety enough so I can get back to the Ketamine. My GP is on board.
fingers crossed and prayers flying, kizzie, that this time you find some relief. i hope your anxiety levels recede quickly and smoothly, too. sending love and a hug full of support and care :hug:
Tks San :hug:
Keeping my fingers crossed this helps. :grouphug:
Seems I am writing in too many threads about my experiences with meds but hopefully readers will track down some of it and get something out of what I've gone through.
Anyway, tks again for your support everyone. I'm glad I chose finally to be open about what was going on. Being the forum admin always makes me think twice about what I say but one day I realized that the truth really is the best antidote to Complex PTSD. Sometimes it's not what we want to hear but it makes us be honest about our suffering and what we need, it motivates us to ask questions and push for better treatment, from those serving us. If there is one thing I have leaned going through what I have recently it's that there is little real understanding of what is Complex PTSD and what we need that differs from those with PTSD.
I had to tell both the clinic and my GP that I had hit the wall and was quite literally falling apart and needed something to bring the anxiety down as soon as humanly possible. The psych prescribed Gabapentin and it has really helped. I can't help but think how much better off I would have been if I'd had access to a knowledgeable psych way back when. But my GP didn't know how effective it is and apparently the one psychiatrist who assessed me at the end of Aug didn't either. He recommended an antipsychotic .5 mg of Risperidone which has side effects, takes time to work, etc.
So I have suffered needlessly and I am angry about that so I will tuck it away and maybe when I am feeling better I will use that anger in some advocacy work here to get patients connected more quickly to knowledgeable psychiatrists.
The Gabapentin works fairly well, enough so that I think I can return to the Ketamine treatment (at a lower dose as per the head psych). The saga continues.
Tks for all your support :hug:
quite the saga, indeed, kizzie. thank you for sharing about this, and for being so open and honest. i agree w/ everything you said about our truths and how important it is to bring them out of the darkness. so very glad the gabapentin is working and bringing you some relief.
having had my own experience w/ risperdone, i second the :thumbdown:. love and hugs :hug:
Thank you for honestly sharing your journey, Kizzie. I think it is much more helpful if we all have realistic ideas of what recovery is and isn't. There's a lot of pressure to just get over it and to be a good little success story of overcoming. We want hope, of course, but realistic hope.
You have every right to be angry when you feel ready about not getting appropriate and knowledgeable care sooner.
San, it's kind of funny as I told my GP the psych was not exactly positive about not only thre Risperidone suggestion but about the psych who recommended it. Seems he knows him - small world I imagine. Anyway, it piqued her curiosity and when she and he talk (supposed to be yesterday), she told me she was going to find out why he wasn't positive about the med or fellow psych. I had to laugh at the human side of all this because her curiosity was more than professional, she wanted the goods on the guy.
Armee - tks for supporting me taking an honest approach. I just feel more and more like we have to tell professionals when they are not doing their best to help us in a way that is compassionate, includes our needs/ wants, is effective, and most important of all is accessible. I didn't realize how important that last bit is -- accessibility -- until I had to deal with the medication side of treatment. I'm having to pay a fortune to access good psychs who know a lot about meds. All the good/smart ones seem to be going private here in Canada and they do not come cheap when you access their services.
It's astonishing the individual price this takes not just on emotions health relationships and productivity, but sheer money. My costs here in an expensive part of the US is $2k per month for necessarily long therapy. I literally cannot function in 1 hr therapy. The dissociation makes that impossible. That cost doesn't include the fact that I don't feel able to work right now and the monthly costs of insurance premiums. We are lucky as my husband makes good money. Otherwise I wouldn't get treatment.
I'm so sorry Armee, it should NOT be this way (i.e., that many, perhaps most of us, cannot afford to get well).
We need a great big LOUD international coalition to shout out this message to health providers/insurers and governments around the world. Health should not be split into physical and mental, it is all one and treatment should not be split, siloed like it is. It's just cheaper for govts/insurers and easier for health providers to believe the split is legit which perpetuates the underlying belief that we are the cause of our own misery and if we just pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps we'd be fine.
It's also good for the pharm companies because we simply stay on meds that only partly help for years, decades, even lifetimes. If I hadn't developed an intolerance to SSRIs I would have simply stayed on it to the end of my life, not realizing there were better options out there. The new option, Ketamine, is not covered by many insurers and it's not cheap so one way or another we pay a lot to try and get well. It infuriates me frankly. It's like vampires feeding off our pain and misery.
indeed! (don't get me started!)
(my bootstraps broke a very long time ago!)
another part of the meds industry are the side effects that often happen, and of course there have been more meds created to treat these, which had been caused by medication in the first place. like we're hamsters running the wheel. no wonder we're so tired! love and hugs :hug:
Off for my second Ketamine treatment - fingers (and toes) crossed it goes MUCH better than the last session! I will be having a lower dose and the head psych whom I like very much will talking with me ahead of the session and afterwards in the reflection session.
I had the therapy session two days ago and it was excellent although I fell apart about 3 hours after it, crying and my anxiety went way up. I talked to the pysch the next day and he said to use 400 mgs if/when this happens. Apparently it takes the edge off the reaction, but still lets you experience the emotions you need to for the Ketamine to do its work.
OK :Idunno:
Thinking of you today, Kizzie. :grouphug:
Kizzie,
I'm excited to hear that this lower dosage, and the pscyhe being with you before and after, is working better than your first experience.
My Ketamine Infusions don't have a psychiatrist involved. They're just the infusion. After listening to the podcast that Dolly shared yesterday, I can see real value in doing IFS and talk therapy in the same sitting as the infusion. Also, in this podcast, Dr. Grant said that the lower the doses are much better for processing our PTSD with the Ketamine.
I can't wait to hear from you how today goes!!!!!
Hi Kizzie,
I hope it goes well. It sounds like you have a lot going on right now but I'm sure you can get through it. Sounds very positive that you have a t that you can trust to listen to you and help you integrate those experiences as well. Maybe the ketamine is working away in the background.
dolly :grouphug:
It went quite well really as evidenced by by a perfectly normal BP reading before hand (in the 120/80 range), to only a slight raised reading afterward which is normal for Ketamine (i.e. to raise BP somewhat). Huzzah! :yahoo:
I actually enjoyed the psychedelic trip part of the treatment and was a little sad as the Ketamine wore off about 2/3rds of the way through. So next session I am going to ask for a slight increase from to see how that goes and a top up if the medicine wears off 2/3rds of the way through.
Maybe I need not worry about having a lower dose though :Idunno:
Quote. Also, in this podcast, Dr. Grant said that the lower the doses are much better for processing our PTSD with the Ketamine.
Well now that
is interesting! I did have an hour long chat with the head psych and a colleague and told them IMO they have to approach CPTSD survivor differently - slower intro to the whole process, break therapy and Ketamine into two days as they have done for me, start with a lower dose if the client is anxious and/or has never been on a psychedelic trip before. The psych trip was completely scary to me and I didn't want to go back.
I'm also thinking of taking in my own music as the music they (the clinic) use is designed to elicit a range of emotion's and frankly I can live without anything from the darker side having lived with anxiety and depression since Jan. I was reading about Ketamine music tracks on Reddit last night and there seem to be a lot of uplifting tracks which is exactly what I want.
It's a lot to think about!
That's fantastic Kizzie!!!
:fireworks:
so glad for you, kizzie, that you had a better experience this time. hopefully, this will continue. rooting for you all the way! love and hugs :hug:
:yeahthat: :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on October 08, 2022, 07:54:28 PM
Quote. Also, in this podcast, Dr. Grant said that the lower the doses are much better for processing our PTSD with the Ketamine.
Well now that is interesting! I did have an hour long chat with the head psych and a colleague and told them IMO they have to approach CPTSD survivor differently - slower intro to the whole process, break therapy and Ketamine into two days as they have done for me, start with a lower dose if the client is anxious and/or has never been on a psychedelic trip before. The psych trip was completely scary to me and I didn't want to go back.
I've been reading more into psilocybin and trying to understand why I sometimes get increased irritability. What is interesting and might related to what you said here, is that it acts on our ego dissolution.
"Lower levels of hippocampal glutamate were associated with positively experienced ego dissolution. This finding provides support for the theory that ego dissolution is caused by a temporary loss of access to autobiographical memory, as the hippocampus plays a key role in memory."
I think a lot of people with (all of us?) cPTSD are hypervigilant and I wonder if that hypervigilance extends to how we see ourselves and the world ie I need to be like this in order to function and feel safe in the world. It's also interesting that it's related to memory another facet which a lot of people with cPTSD are very hypervigilant about (conscious or unconscious).
https://www.reddit.com/r/microdosing/comments/vnllsm/research_citizen_science_the_afterglow_flow_state/
Glad it went much better for you this time :cheer:
OMG Dolly, I love that you do deep dives into the neurobiological (hope that's the correct term) side of things, but honestly it's beyond me. The head psych got a bit carried away the other day with a deep dive into Ketamine and emotion/brain and I did not understand what he was talking about and was too embarrassed to ask. Sitting here I realize, hey it's not my field so of course I might not understand and can ask for a simpler version, something at my level of comprehension. I will do that if there is another conversation that leads off into high level discussion like that one did.
What I do know/believe is that we (relational trauma survivors) are likely (very, quite) different in terms of our pathways and tolerances so it's imperative clinicians/researchers understand what is Complex PTSD and don't just rely on research from PTSD survivors or the general population. I'm glad I did speak up about this to the psych and his colleague and equally glad they seemed interested in what I had to say.
I have been totally avoiding a huge topic that has been causing me a great deal of pain and anguish, and has added so much to the anxiety and depression I am dealing with presently.
I don't want to write too much but I will say it's about our son. I thought he had gone No Contact with us and did not know why. He hadn't emailed, texted or called or responded to anything we've sent for a long while except when Hurricane Fiona hit Halifax and we asked by text if he was OK.
Yesterday I emailed to ask again what was going on and he responded and said he loved me/us and had just been caught up in his own life and had some things of his own going on. I know there is more to it (issues with me/us) because of a few things he said when all this started months ago, but I'll leave that for now if he's not ready to talk. I just keep telling him I have this legacy of CPTSD, that I love him and am sorry if that spilled over onto him and that I will do my level best to repair things.
I also told him yesterday that I believe it's really important we don't go No/Low Contact because it perpetuates the intergenerational cycle and I so want to leave this planet knowing I have done everything I can to break that cycle for him and future generations. I want him and the family he will have at some stage to be happy and healthy as can be.
That's all I want to write about this for now but I know all of you know the deep, deep despair, fear, and sense of abandonment I have been struggling with.
I hate having CPTSD, I truly do.
ditto, kizzie. this beast has eroded, derailed, and demolished so many good people, some of whom are still fighting for their lives and sanity. having gone NC w/ my own D1 (cuz of her abuse to me) i understand that feeling of loss and despair when it comes to our kids. so very sorry you're having this issue - i wouldn't wish it on anyone. i do hope you and your son can find some resolution so you don't have to continue on in such a heartbreaking situation. love and a hug filled w/ hope :hug:
Tks San, we're supposed to talk by phone tonight and I so hope it goes well. :hug:
:grouphug:
Sending lots of hugs Kizzie. I believe he can feel that you are coming from a place of love and concern for him rather than being defensive and unwilling to take any ownership for whatever happens or happened. That is not something that breeds estrangement. You are doing the right things. :grouphug:
i agree w/ armee - you're doing everything possible to keep that door open between you two. hope the phone call goes well, too. :hug:
It did not really go well although he confirmed he loves us. It sounds like he has issues although we're confused as to whether it's with us or something or someone else but he wants to wait until after his exams to talk. Fair enough as he is in Year 2 of medicine and the exams really are tough. He will finish them in Nov so it's not all that long to wait.
I honestly have no idea what's going on with him and why he says he loves us but doesn't contact us and won't say what is going on. It's crazy making just like the covert N behaviour of my M. To our minds his childhood was really good - no emotional, physical or sexual abuse or neglect and lots of support and love but maybe he doesn't see it that way. :Idunno:
Anyway, it will drive me crazy trying to figure out what is going so hopefully I can leave it be until after his exams.
I mentioned this to the therapist yesterday at the clinic where I am having the ketamine treatment and he suggested maybe thinking about doing a couple of sessions around the time he tells us what is going on to firm up my window of tolerance for what may be tough news (i.e., he loves us but doesn't want to be in touch with us). It's good advice as if that's what's coming and I suspect that's it, I will need to shore up my ability to cope with another big loss and move on with my life somehow. I will be finished the 6 week program by then but can go back for additional sessions when needed.
I can't even write about how big a loss it would be if my son chooses No/Low Contact and how much it will affect the "I don't matter" theme that we are trying to deal with in treatment. I so need to internalize messages "I do matter" along with "I am important" and "I matter" and let them replace all the negative messages I've been living by and that culminated in this overwhelming anxiety and depression since Jan.
I feel like I may be doing Ketamine treatments for a bit longer than I had anticipated. It seems like psilocybin is close to becoming legal here so if/when it does I will switch to that as I hear it has more profound and lasting positive effects.
I hate having CPTSD, I truly do. I see no silver lining(s).
if it helps, kizzie, may i reiterate those pos. reinforcements - you really do matter (we wouldn't be here and everything that means w/o you), you are valuable, (you have been a source of strength for your family, ((even our OOTS family)) even when they haven't recognized it), and you are worth being on this earth, taking up space, and living the best life you can simply because you exist. no other reason needed.
i wish the whole thing with your son would have gone more smoothly, and i'm very sorry he's being so secretive. from experience, i know how crazy-making that can be. personally, i don't think he's being fair to you, and that's not your fault. when my D1 pulled that kind of stuff on me, i thought she was just being mean. not trying to put an indictment on your son, it's just how it sounds to me. and i get how heartbreaking it can be from your perspective. let's see what nov. brings. fingers crossed. sending love and a hug full of better days. :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on October 10, 2022, 02:21:41 PM
OMG Dolly, I love that you do deep dives into the neurobiological (hope that's the correct term) side of things, but honestly it's beyond me. The head psych got a bit carried away the other day with a deep dive into Ketamine and emotion/brain and I did not understand what he was talking about and was too embarrassed to ask. Sitting here I realize, hey it's not my field so of course I might not understand and can ask for a simpler version, something at my level of comprehension. I will do that if there is another conversation that leads off into high level discussion like that one did.
What I do know/believe is that we (relational trauma survivors) are likely (very, quite) different in terms of our pathways and tolerances so it's imperative clinicians/researchers understand what is Complex PTSD and don't just rely on research from PTSD survivors or the general population. I'm glad I did speak up about this to the psych and his colleague and equally glad they seemed interested in what I had to say.
For me it was born out of necessity I think after feeling like I was getting ill and doctors telling me it was all in my head. So, I started researching, tried a lot of things (some way out there and some that actually helped) and started getting answers/results. Seeing my functional doc and learning about mold/gut bacteria were the final pieces although I'm still putting it together how they impact me (mold/mycotoxins are an excitory neurotransmitter - think anxiety and GABA is an inhibitor that slows/reverses that process).
I just thought it was interesting that the psychedelics influence that part of us responsible for our "ego" and can cause an "ego death." When we have fought so hard for who we are, and see it as imperative for our survival, it makes sense that those with CPTSD have apprehensions about the psychedelic process.
I'm so sorry for what's happening with your son. I hope you both are able to come together and communicate about what's going on. :grouphug: maybe like some others of us here (me too!), you're feeling scared that you'll be punished for setting boundaries with your mother in the one place that you most don't want it to happen.
Sending you support,
dolly
It does feel almost cruel, vindictive even San, which is why I think there is a whole lot of anger he hasn't expressed to me before - about what I don't know, I seriously don't. I know he hated moving (my H was military and we were posted a lot), but that's not something under our control and at his age now (30) surely he can see that. :Idunno:
When I talked about the really difficult time I've been having with anxiety/depression and meds he was quite cold. Normal human beings say something along the lines of "I'm so sorry you're having a tough time Mom", him nothing. That says to me there is a big something he's holding on to but exactly what I don't know. :Idunno: It really hurt that he was unable to say anything comforting or supportive. To my mind I have always genuinely been there for him for whatever - special occasions, tough times, etc.. and not in a pseudo way like my NM. To make me wait until Nov to find out what is going on just seems on the N side.
May I ask what happened with your 2nd daughter that she and you are estranged but you are quite close with your other daughter? And how do you handle/manage it?
QuoteI just thought it was interesting that the psychedelics influence that part of us responsible for our "ego" and can cause an "ego death." When we have fought so hard for who we are, and see it as imperative for our survival, it makes sense that those with CPTSD have apprehensions about the psychedelic process.
Can you elaborate a bit Dolly? Not sure I totally get what you're suggesting.
sure, kizzie. no problem
my oldest daughter, D1, is who i'm estranged from, going on 8 (10? can't keep track anymore) yrs. come jan. the D i live w/ isn't NPD, like D1. one psychiatrist who treated D1 for a bit told me she was very angry w/ me. like you, i was always there for her (and she had a lot of problems, especially once she hit her teens, lots of psychosomatic as well as personality problems), but thru the years i've come to believe that she is NPD, and got mad at me for having another child when she was 3 1/2.
no rhyme nor reason, but i believe it's true. i remember her looking at me w/ unwarranted judgment when she was 4, and it took off from there. her treatment of me was abusive, ongoing, and she pulled classmates against me w/ her lies. she also did a lot of emotional/mental damage to my D, who still struggles w/ those traumas today. somehow we were all scared of her, and everything revolved around her.
finally, things came to a head, and i realized she was killing me mentally and emotionally and i told her i wasn't going to have this kind of relationship w/ her, that when she wants to have a respectful adult relationship to let me know. that nearly broke me, tho - hardest thing i've ever done in my life. luckily, i began getting posts about NPD, joined a support group (didn't stay long, but long enough that i got a lot of info) and that's what helped explain to me what might be going on w/ her. it was w/in a year of that (i think i opened the door for D to be able to back out of that entangled mess) when my D was able to say 'no more' and went NC w/ her sister as well.
my D and i don't talk much about D1 - it really is painful - but every so often we'll see something on tv that reminds us and one or the other will mention it. a couple months ago it was D1's birthday, and neither my D nor i mentioned it. i know i just didn't want to bring D1 up to my D. as far as managing it, i think it's like any other loss. i've worked on it a lot in therapy, and live w/ a hole in my heart where she belongs. i even had a mock funeral for my precious D1, because the look in her eyes when she was 4 marked the end of that darling baby i'd brought into the world.
i've wondered how people can live w/ fear on a daily basis (since i haven't really experienced it, it seemed unfathomable to me once i began getting some of my emotions back) becuz fear, to me, was the worst. living w/ the absence of my D1 is something like that (altho it was even worse than feeling afraid). i've grabbed on to every rope i could find, including here. i've talked a lot about it on the forum, have gotten truly supportive feedback here.
in the end, kizzie, it's just one foot in front of the other, one day or hour or minute at a time. i think that's all we can do. so, like now, when i talk about it too much, the pain comes back and i have to stop. love and hugs :hug:
Sending along a big embrace Kizzie. From what I know of you I doubt you have done anything wrong other than normal parenting misteps we all make here and there. You appear to attempt to repair any miscommunication, don't expect others to fix your stuff, and prioritize helping others.
And you may be right, he may be angry about something and he may believe it isn't going to go well and he may be needing to conserve his emotional energy right now to get through what he's going through with school. Or it could be something big going on with him that he doesn't want to talk about. I know I often avoid people who have a way of extracting information from me when I am not ready to talk about something.
I can't imagine the pain and fear and I think it's a good idea to work through the worst case scenario in ketamine therapy so you know you can handle it if it comes to that. For awhile I was getting information from "the reconnection club" for estranged parents. It's support and advice for parents with kids who are estranged or low contact. If you haven't checked it out you might like to. Some stuff is free some is a paid membership. I think if you read it you'll find you are doing the right things. I have faith things are going to be ok there because of who you are inside. But if things do deteriorate with your son I reiterate what San said before. You are fully worthwhile and valuable for who you are regardless of any relationship difficulty with your son. That does not define you. It is a painful circumstance. That's it. It doesn't say anything about who you are or what your worth is. :grouphug:
Quote from: Kizzie on October 13, 2022, 02:09:03 PM
QuoteI just thought it was interesting that the psychedelics influence that part of us responsible for our "ego" and can cause an "ego death." When we have fought so hard for who we are, and see it as imperative for our survival, it makes sense that those with CPTSD have apprehensions about the psychedelic process.
Can you elaborate a bit Dolly? Not sure I totally get what you're suggesting.
With CPTSD, we come from traumatic upbringings where a lot of us had a damaged/unformed sense of self - "I'm bad, I'm wrong, no one loves me, I'm poweless etc - and these are core beliefs that most of us still deal with as adults. Because of this, I think we still have a very tenuous (possibly unstable) relationship with the ego (self) at times (*not the IFS self). On the other hand, we've had to fight very hard against these ideas of ourselves being bad, not worthy, unloveable etc that we have an attachment to seeing ourselves in a certain way perhaps as adults, as well as a need to be hypervigilant and control our environment and behaviour (because otherwise we are bad, unlovable etc.). This is why I think it might be different for people with CPTSD - that need for control/hypervigilance. Psychedelics erase all of this through dissolving our ego, sense of self, good or bad. Suddenly, the world that we know doesn't exist and can cause alarm. To our brains, it could mean that we will we back in that place that we had to survive from, perhaps facing the fear again of being in those places where we learned that we were unlovable etc without our familiar feelings of control.
Interestingly, a collegue at work this week told me of a friend of theirs who did psychedelics and went through an ego death which lasted a year (I don't think they had any integration or support in the process), but said that it did help in curing their depression.
These are some bits I found relating to the ego/ego death:
the ego relates to your feelings about your own importance and abilities.
Without getting too caught up in the psychological aspects, you can think of your ego as the image you hold of yourself, which affects everything from how you perceive the world to how you behave around others.
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/ego-death
Over the course of our lifetime, we build up a collection of memories or predictions that we identify with as our "self." For many people, this model of themselves makes them very unhappy, especially those suffering from mental illness. Experiencing the reduction of sense of self can lead to better introspection. It can also disrupt negative patterns of behavior.
https://nushama.com/post/what-is-ego-dissolution-and-is-it-helpful/
He sees many psychiatric problems as "casualt[ies] to the sense of self." People who live with depression, for instance, are often mired in self-persecutory thoughts. They might see themselves as screw-ups or become preoccupied with whether people like them. "That's a problem with the sense of self," Johnson says.
Ego death can help you realize you're more than how you normally define yourself, that you can see your problems from a different perspective, and that you have control over your sense of self, he says — and that's powerful.
https://www.mic.com/life/could-killing-your-ego-with-psychedelics-be-the-key-to-mental-wellness
So I had a breakdown yesterday which I think might be from too much Gabapentin, but it was a doozy and so this morning I will be talking with the staff at the clinic I am doing the Ketamine therapy. Hopefully a psych will be avail to talk about if it might be the Gabapentin or it's the Ketamine and therapy. :Idunno:
Just wanted to say that I had sent an email to my son wishing him well on his exams, and that I understood how anxiety provoking they were for him (he failed one at the end of Year One and had to rewrite. Passed with flying colours but it really took it out of him, unsettled him quite badly I think.) Anyway, as I was calming down from the breakdown (with the help of Ativan) I got a lovely email back from him, the person he is and used to be towards me so perhaps it is not as bad as I think. My H has been trying to convince me of that but of course my trauma gets in the way and I can't help but think the darkest things. It was just the right email to receive at that moment and it helped bring me down thankfully.
I truly hope it's not that he has NPD like your D San, I have wondered from time to time but I'm not sure. He doesn't seem to have all the characteristics except on occasion like now when he is stressed. Oh I don't know but hopefully when we talk after his exams it will become clear. For now I'm just hanging onto that nice, normal email he sent that sounds like him and not the cold person he has been for a while now and on occasion growing up.
That's all I can write right now until I get this falling apart thing sorted out if I can that is.
Tks for the reply Dolly, I'll have to try and read/digest it when I am on more stable ground I'm afraid.
seems like the timing of that email was just what you needed, kizzie. so very glad he sent it. wishing you all the best w/ him and the relationship as time goes by. hope you can get some rest - breakdowns are terrible, for sure. love and hugs :hug:
:bighug: :bighug: to you Kizzie
Tks BB and San, really needed the hugs today.
:bighug: :bighug: :grouphug:
Breakdowns are frightening and overwhelming. :grouphug:
Sometimes...helpful too?
Kizzie,
I just caught up reading your journal. I think that you are brave to pursue the ketamine and work with the doctor to figure out the best options for you. I'm glad that your second session went better than the first.
The interactions with your son sound really distressing. I'm so glad that his last response to you was warm. I hope for you that he will be able to be honest about what is going on and that you will be able to work through it.
I'm sorry that you are having a hard time. I hope that you are able to talk to staff and get some good advise.
:grouphug:
Tks Not Alone - hugs and warm thought feel so good these days :hug:
So I am really struggling, breaking down a lot, started taking drinks just like in 2016 (albeit not as much), to make it through between taking a new batch of medication. Dangerous I know but not sure what else to do frankly.
I am seeing the head pysch at the clinic where I am doing the Ketamine and I will be talking to my GP tomorrow so hopefully they will come up with a better plan than medicating the *** out of me and saying I am making progress as I fall apart more and more each day.
TRIGGER WARNING - SUICIDE IDEATION
I don't know if I am going to make it frankly unless someone gets off their *** and really digs into helping me. I am looking at Electro Convulsive Therapy now as think I am treatment resistant, SSRIs stopped working and now I think Ketamine and Gabapentin are tapping into my darkest thoughts and feelings rather than lifting me out of the depression. I have been dealing with really bad anxiety since Jan and it's Oct and nothing has really helped. I'd say that I have become treatment resistant for whatever reasons, doesn't matter but I have to find something that works or I'm not going to make it.
The psych at the clinic thinks it's progress and maybe he's partly correct because I do know from falling apart daily now I do have a lot of suicide ideation going on since my H's stroke ( a lot of I don't want to live if he dies), and since forever (thoughts of I don't want to wake up, I don't want to be here going on in the background of my mind because of the trauma in my background). Or is it the meds making me think these darkest of thoughts. :Idunno:
Request
I know a lot of you are grateful for having OOTS so you are not alone and can talk about things you can't always talk about elsewhere so I am wondering if any of you are interested in becoming an Admin? I am finding it increasing difficult to take care of things around here because of what I'm going through and could use a hand until hopefully I am able to get back on track. It's not much really. Just checking to see if registrants aren't blacklisted and then approving them, making sure new members are greeted, and occasionally dealing with a questionable post. They are fewer and fewer these days because our guidelines are quite clear and members are quick to report questionable posts.
If you are interested you can PM me here or email me at OOTSManager@gmail.com.
Hi Kizzie,
I would like to send you support in the form of a heartfelt hug :hug: I really hope that your GP and the head psych can come up with something that will help you.
Hope :)
dearest kizzie, i can relate. maybe not so much today, but have very similar thoughts and feelings at least weekly. i sure hope you get the help you need and quickly. it's a horrible place to live, w/in the walls of those dark thoughts. and, from what i know, yes, meds can increase SI and depression/anxiety. it all depends on personal tolerance to the way the medication works. i'm sorry the gabapentin isn't working anymore. it sounded good for a minute.
i wish i could help you more, but i am sending love, healing vibes, and a hug full of compassion and support. c'mon in here :bighug:
Oh Kizzie. This sounds like such a difficult stretch. Those thoughts and feelings are scary though you are not alone in them. And you've been managing so much physically and emotionally since your H's stroke.
Taking things off your plate right now is wise so you have more space to defuse the intensity of emotions and work with the doctors to figure out something that will help you survive and then hopefully start to feel better.
I don't know how mine compare to yours of course but I've had to just treat my thoughts and urges as intrusive thoughts almost like schizophrenic voices (though that's not what they are). I just let them have their say...."ok. I hear you. Thank you. But I don't really want to hurt myself, thank you." Or "thank you, I hear you. But I don't actually want to die." Sometimes I catch myself rolling my eyes at them.
If it helps and it may not...those thoughts FOR ME are always 100% of the time trying to cover up a real emotion that needs airtime and tends to flare when my defenses have come down just a little too quickly. But there's always something under that and it's something worth feeling and healing. That doesn't make it easier, but seeing the purpose of those self harm-y thoughts helps me be less scared that I'm having them. In my case their purpose is to distract me from feeling hurty things I need to feel to heal. They aren't a true desire to be hurt or die.
Huge hugs to you, Kizzie. You know our CPTSD healing mantra...slower is faster. Maddening but we cross the threshold into "too much" very quickly. Our nervous system has been taxed since day 1. It makes sense but is frustrating as all ****.
:bighug:
Hi Kizzie,
I'm so sorry that you're going through so much right now.
Like Hope said, I hope you and your t & psych t can come to some answers about what is going on. In my reading about psychedelics it does bring up those dark parts of ourselves that we try to hide away. Even though it's incredibly difficult, it might also be a good time to look at them and see them for what they are and come to an understanding with them, so they don't have any power over you any more.
As I'm learning, we all have our shadow selves, the dark parts, warts and all. A lot of the times we weren't allowed to have those "bad" parts growing up (maybe especially for NPD children where we had to be shiny and good for affection and this is reinforced by society), but they don't disappear and have to go somewhere. As I understand, the more cut off we are from them, the more haunting or strong they become. I wonder if there's a part of you that identifies with still being good and can't see that you're allowed to do "naughty and bad" things too, that it's normal to have those parts?
I saw a version of myself pop up that I think was my shadow on a day I had a stronger variety of mushroom for my MD. It was the cunning, greedy part that I wouldn't really relate to but I knew that part was me. I've been reading more about the shadow and learning about the parts of myself that I had to cut off growing up, even if I don't completely remember them. I guess I'm open to the idea and learning about how it happened.
If you read down a bit, there's a part about the role of psychedelics in shadow work:
https://tripsitter.com/shadow-work/?amp=1
Sending you a hug :grouphug: we're all here if you need us,
dolly
Just a bit of good news re the site- tks to those of your who volunteered to help out with the administration ( :hug: ), but my H actually stepped up and said he would do it. It's much easier to explain to him as he's right here. :cheer:
:cheer: yay to all of you! and thanks for stepping up for our girl, Kizzie's H!
Big hug to H. If there's anything we can do to make it easier for him let us know.
:cheer: :applause: for your H, Kizzie! I'm so happy for you that you'll be able to hand this right on to him rather than spending time and effort trying to teach a few mbrs on here what to do.
Ha, ha, my H is a bit embarrassed I think to have some lovely well wishes - thank you my trauma peeps for making him feel welcome and appreciated! (Secretly I think he really likes it ;D)
It's a real relief for me that he has stepped up because there is more going on. I am stopping the Ketamine clinic because I am getting worse rather than better. They don't see it quite like that , they see it as progress that I am breaking down and crying a lot (getting to the heart of my trauma). I am also on more meds than when I started so my GP and I agreed I need to stop and try something else.
That something else is Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) - Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) is a noninvasive procedure that uses magnetic fields to stimulate nerve cells in the brain to improve symptoms of depression. TMS is typically used when other depression treatments haven't been effective. This treatment for depression involves delivering repetitive magnetic pulses, so it's called repetitive TMS or rTMS. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-magnetic-stimulation/about/pac-20384625
I am having a major depressive episode, everyone is in agreement on that and I am treatment resistant, at least to anything involving medications so this seems to be a good choice. It's expensive and isn't covered so we will be forking out another big lump of money but what else can we do? I absolutely HATE that we are spending our savings on me getting well from CPTSD rather than traveling or whatever else we could be doing with the money that's fun and affirms all our years of hard work. At least we have the funds, I can't help but think about those who don't and it makes me angry and sad.
that looks really interesting Kizzie... thank you for sharing the link.
I hope it's successful for you, and I hope the depression eases soon... It's not easy changing courses. Good for you for making that leap of faith, and for knowing a change was needed.
I am wishing it brings a wonderful result for you.
:grouphug:
Hi Kizzie,
Thinking of you and sending love and support. I'm really proud of you for putting the brakes on the ketamine and related treatments when it seemed to make things worse. Feeling things very well may have been progress but it was clearly too fast and too destabilizing.
hey, kizzie, i've heard of magnet therapy before (long time ago - don't know if it's even being used the same way now) attesting to something similar re: realigning bodies and all their innards, even down to the cellular level. i sure hope you have the best of luck w/ this new treatment. i've been thinking of you. love and hugs :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
Hope you're doing ok, and thinking of you. Wishing you the best for 2023, and sending you a big hug :bighug:
Hope :)
:yeahthat: love and hugs, kizzie. :hug:
Tks Hope and San! All the best to you too :hug:
I'm still in treatment - looks like another 2-3 weeks as fiddling with my medication. It is a nice place, way better than the hospital thankfully. I have my own room which is lovely and I go home on the weekends - very civilized.
hey, kizzie, sounds like you're where you need to be. hoping they find something to help you. all the best for this new year. love and hugs :hug:
:grouphug:
Tks San :hug: and Armee :hug:
San how is the weight management work going? I seem to remember reading you were going to a professional for some help?
thanks for asking, kizzie. not a weight management pro, actually, just digging into food/eating issues w/ my T. it's a long journey - we were both surprised at how many unhealthy messages i got about eating, and how differently i've used food (to stay up, to go to sleep, etc.) according to what was going on w/ me and/or my relationship at the time.\
lots to get thru, lots to process, more than i expected, but it's all been put on hold while i wrestle w/ rewriting my childhood narrative, feeling crappy, and grieving. so, i'm basically doing ok, got a few insights, but haven't had time nor energy to work thru them. later, i hope. :hug:
Ok it's your T. Sorry you are feeling crappy, CPTSD sucks to put it mildly. :hug: for you.
and i totally took over your journal w/ my last response! so sorry. i do hope you're beginning to feel better and your treatment is providing some positive results. love and hugs, kizzie :hug:
No, not to worry San you were just answering my question. :yes:
So today is Thursday and I will be leaving this treatment centre on Tues. I am somewhat nervous and excited at the same time but think I have my meds sorted and the tools I need. I will be attending a three day a week morning step down program (mostly virtual from home) for 10 weeks after I leave which will help, and I have an aftercare therapist in place for three months or so. It's all free so there's something to be said for universal health care :)
It has been a long awful year but think I am through the worst thankfully. Tks to all of you who so kindly supported me throughout, it meant a lot. :hug: to each of you.
:grouphug:
I just felt myself breathe a huge sigh of relief that you feel you are on the upswing. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of this Kizzie. And so happy you were able to get the care you needed. :grouphug:
i echo armee, kizzie. i'm just so glad for you. love and hugs :hug:
And I echo Armee and San! I'm glad you have support and you're through the worst. :hug:
Echoing everybody who posted above! :grouphug:
Kizzie, based on my experience for post-inpatient care, you've got a really good plan going for when you're back home! I am so relieved for you! :)
Hi Kizzie,
Glad to hear you're feeling better :cheer:
dolly :hug:
And I should have added I have here and all of you to stay healthy and recovering :yes:
yep, we're here for you, kizzie. thanks for letting us help. love and hugs :hug:
Dear Kizzie,
Glad to hear you've got a support plan for coming home, and sending you love and hugs :hug:
Hope :)
Tks San :hug: and Hope :hug:
Welcome back Kizzie :hug:
Stopped by to say Hi :wave: :hug:
Tks BB and B ;D
So I have had two maintenance Electroconvulsive treatments since coming out of the full time treatment program and the first one knocked me for a loop I guess because it's been a while. My muscles were really sore and I was nauseated through to about 4 PM (had it about 9 AM). I asked for pain and nausea meds in my IV for the last one and it made things go much better thankfully. I can only imagine what having them without anesthetic must have been like in days gone by - ouch! No wonder it has such a bad rep. Anyway, It does seem to help and it's only once a month.
I went for my assessment for the follow-on day treatment program yesterday. It's very similar to the full time program except a smaller group (10 versus 20), and only three mornings from 9-12 per week for ten weeks. Lots of CBT and group work on skills such as assertiveness, self-compassion, etc. Not exactly for trauma, but designed for anxiety and depression. I guess like most mental health systems in most countries they must do the best they can with the limited resources they are given.
TBH part of me is considering not going and finding a trauma focused group if I can. I do like the CBT and working on feeling comfortable in a group setting that the day treatment program will offer but the majority of the group subjects are limited in their utility for me (or so it feels). As I told the Occupational Therapist I'm really looking for some help in dealing with trauma related symptoms now like hypervigilance, a tendency to isolate from others because of mistrust, dissociation and avoidance, etc. That said, I know some of my depression and anxiety comes from aging and it is a seniors group so I would benefit from being with others my own age going through some things.
It doesn't start until March 13th so I have some time to think and make a decision. I just wish we could fast forward to a time where there are groups for trauma survivors, young, middle aged and/or senior. So much of our depression and anxiety ties directly into our trauma and then gets layered onto with other life circumstances. Hard to separate each out but to treat the overall problem you have to deal with both (IMO).
Ah well, at least we have these programs available here in Canada at no cost - love universal health!
Hi Kizzie,
I hope that you are able to make a decision that feels right for you. It's good that you have some time before 13th March to consider your options.
Just popped by to say 'hello' and send you a hug too, if that's ok :hug:
Hope :)
I can't remember whether or not I wrote about this but I left a bad review of the clinic where I had the ketamine treatment in the hopes that others will think twice about going there give the fact that the psychiatrist prescribed waaaaay too much medication both Ativan and Gabapentin. Both my GP and I went with it because he is a psychiatrist and it landed me in hospital so lesson learned. If your gut is telling you something, listen to it. Professionals are not all ethical as I found out and paid the price.
Tks so much Hope. I love hugs (didn't always). Hug received and returned :hug:
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. CBT can be a little helpful. But it really doesn't do anything for the beliefs and behaviors that were formed from trauma because those are all emotion based and for me at least I find when I am in my logical brain (ie not triggered) I don't believe those things bad about myself at all. But trauma triggered brain...the logical part is totally shutoff and no matter how much CBT I did or how much I believe those things when I am not triggered there is NO ACCESS to that part of the brain when I am triggered. EMDR seems to put me in the part of the brain that is active when I am triggered and then changes the beliefs and associations in the part of the brain that is active when triggered. So yeah...probably benefits to both...but I'd say you definitely want to include the trauma piece. CBT leaders seem to think their methods work on trauma. They do not, at least not when dissociation is a key player.
Good luck Kizzie,
I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles to find proper treatments and ethical practitioners. I'm sending hugs your way. Also prayers. :hug:
Kizzie, it is good to hear from, you as you bravely move toward.
Tks Armee. I agree that CBT isn't the best when one is triggered, but I do find it helps me in some instances to change what I'm thinking so I don't trigger which is why I do like it. E.g., Everyone is bad and untrustworthy. That a belief I can challenge and change.
I know EMDR really helped me when Trump got into office. My M is an N and I knew what the US and world for that matter was in for and became very depressed. I don't know that CBT would have helped with that because he is dangerous and abusive and watching news about him 24/7 triggered me so deeply. There was really no way of thinking differently about him, he is what he is. EMDR seemed to help me take a step back or use more of my brain to deal with how I was reacting. Or at least that's how it felt.
Tks for your posts Papa and Not Alone, encouragement is appreciated!
:grouphug:
Sorry I went on a little diatribe there. Oops.
I'm really proud of you for going through this program and just completely grateful that you take those opportunities and extend beyond yourself even though you are deeply struggling, to make space for educating providers and the broader community. You are an amazing force, Kizzie, even in your moments of suffering. I am sorry you've had such a rough stretch. I see really positive signs too Kizzie that you know where the fault lies with the ketamine treatment clinic because I know my tendency is to believe I am the one who is wrong. But you are aware that what they did and how they worked with complex trauma and medication were not right, and are taking action to protect others. That is impressive.. Thank you, for all you do and for sharing openly.
KIzzie
Such a positive theme! I'm happy to hear the Celexa is helping. And the crayons are a great idea. I've begun playing with Legos again. It brings me back to my quiet, safe space when I was a boy. When I start snapping blocks and creating little villages, I feel that same peace come over me that was present in my childhood Lego time. I hope the crayons do the same for you.
:hug:
No worries Armee, if we can pontificate a bit here where can we lol. It was and still is an eye opener that not all professionals are ethical/knowledgeable as they should be, but it confirms that I do need to listen to my gut and not hand 100% of my care over. On the flip side, I had awesome nurses, a therapist and a psychiatrist in the care program and it is lovely to know that as a senior professionals do care and are focused on the health and well-being of those in their care. I had been feeling a bit like I had no value or purpose really but that program changed how I was feeling. We really mattered to them and we came first, it was awesome in that respect.
Papa, I'm actually on a very low dose of Effector as I couldn't tolerate Celexa or any other SSRI for that matter. Medications and I, such a crap shoot, but we managed to find some that worked. Everything now is low dose though so I think I was correct about not doing especially well on most meds any longer.
I'm not colouring with crayons although in the treatment program I did colour a bit with colour pencils and enjoyed that. I do love Legos although I haven't dug them out yet, still buried in all the craft and recreational things in the basement that I still haven't unpacked since moving here. I suppose that's a good project for keeping busy and having something relaxing to do though. I tend to be a doer but now that I'm retired I find myself with a little too much time on my hands and not quite knowing how to have fun. It was helpful to hear that the other seniors in the program were grappling with the same or similar issues (e.g., not quite knowing what to do with all their free time). I don't hang out with any seniors so thought many things I was feeling were "just me". Typical for us (i.e., relational trauma survivors to think it's us right?).
"Papa, I'm actually on a very low dose of Effector as I couldn't tolerate Celexa or any other SSRI for that matter."
Many people have a hard time tolerating SSRI's. Whenever I was on them, they would activate me and I couldn't sleep at night, so then they would give me Trazodone for sleep.
"I'm not colouring with crayons although in the treatment program I did colour a bit with colour pencils and enjoyed that."
Doing artistic things is wonderful! I find it very therapeutic and self nurturing. I'm trying to make art more of a priority in my life.
Well halleluiah, it looks like I have actually found a therapy group for Complex PTSD and it starts March 3rd. :cheer: The psychologist is already running a group and wasn't going to run another one until the fall but as she put it she has been inundated with requests for another group. That speaks to how many of us are out there looking for help IMO. I hope more T's start running groups and doing individual therapy for us, we sure need it!
I got some good help in the inpatient program for anxiety and depression but it didn't focus on trauma or even touch on it really. I submitted some comments to their strategic planning committee (at their request) and told them that positive skills building was helpful and part of recovery to be sure, but the other part was getting to the root cause of the anxiety and depression and helping us with that. Hopefully they will take what I said seriously and make some changes. As always, there's only so much time and money I know.
Hi Kizzie,
Wow, that is great :cheer: Very happy to hear that you've found a therapy group for Complex PTSD starting March 3rd - not too long now! So glad that the psychologist responded to the requests for another group.
:hug:
Hope :)
Quotethe other part was getting to the root cause of the anxiety and depression and helping us with that. Hopefully they will take what I said seriously and make some changes.
totally agree, and good for you for speaking up about it. very glad you're finding something positive for your life, kizzie. you mustered thru w/ determination and perseverance, and all credit to you for doing so. love and hugs :hug:
Kizzie!
That's so awesome! A support group for CPTSD is something I'd love to find too. I've been in support groups, and they are usually very helpful. Gads! I'm almost jealous!
I sincerely hope the support group is a happy and helpful place for you.
So awesome!
Hi Kizzie,
That's great news! I hope the group brings you some comfort from what you've been going through lately.
Sending you support,
dolly
Tks everyone, I hope it proves to be helpful. The psychologist running it is a survivor too which gives me hope that she understands the nuance of CPTSD and will help us to get at the core of our wounds and try out some authentic relationship building with one another.
On another note, this week brought some news I'm not quite sure how to deal with. My NM received news that her cancer has returned and because of her age (93) and general health it is not treatable so she will be referred for palliative treatment. I feel compassion for her and at the same time fear of what this will bring in terms of triggers for me. E.g., I've already had a note from a cousin talking about treasuring my remaining time and that my M is such a wonderful person. My M worked hard to portray that so I dread the whole funeral and am considering not going when the time comes (6 months to a year). My mental health is not the best and I'm really afraid that would not help matters.
Life as a survivor is so fraught isn't it? And it's been my experience non-survivors don't understand why we feel/react the way we do which makes things even more difficult. At least I can talk openly and honestly to all of you and maybe by then I will have some peers IRL from the group.
kizzie, difficult time, indeed. for what it's worth, i didn't go to either of my parent's funerals. people talked, but there it is. i don't feel guilty cuz i just couldn't cope. i'm glad i'm able to allow myself acceptance for that. here's hoping you get what you need from that group. it does sound promising. love and hugs :hug:
Tks so much for letting me know you didn't go to either of your parent's funerals San, it's hard to bear the judgment of people who don't understand and didn't know what my M was really like but I have to protect myself. Like you I'm not sure I could cope especially with all the positive sentiments about a woman who messed me up so badly. I honestly wonder if went if I would at some point break down and start yelling the truth and yet again look like the crazy one (that's what happened in my younger years).
I like that I do feel compassion for her and am being kind because I really do believe that has to be hard news to deal with even at 93 - one human being to another is what it comes down to with her and I at this moment in time. I haven't talked with my sibling about this because he triggers me really quickly but that conversation has to come. Not looking forward to that at all.
:grouphug:
It is a difficult and fraught period Kizzie and you'll get through it. Perhaps at the end you'll have relief you never knew possible so even though you see the difficult parts right now...this closure may be what you need to really heal too.
Unwanted and inaccurate sympathy is very very hard when our relationships are as they are. All i could do in the same situation was either be brutally honest or just say "thanks yes it is a very difficult time." Mostly I opted for honesty.
When it comes time for the funeral don't forget you are welcome to lie and say you came down with covid and cannot attend. Or you can go and sit there knowing 1. Your version of her is true and accurate and 2. You are now free.
Once my mom died there was so much relief. I expected grieving what never was and that it would all hit me but it didn't. I was just free. It unlocked my ability to process other things too. It's like when someone with trauma is still in the traumatic situation they cannot heal. Sometimes it takes our parent's death to be free enough to heal the damage.
I know it will be a hard period of time for you and I know how precarious it feels right now mental health wise. And I can't sugar coat it...when I was dealing with end stage cancer with my mom it was a terrible physical and mental health toll. But there is a light though at the end of this.
Not many people will understand that and thank goodness they live in a world where they don't need to understand. But there are plenty of people out there who get it, too. I haven't read the book but saw the cover and news coverage by a former child actress...title: "I'm glad my mom died"
I do apologize because I imagine some of this is veering into advice territory and I simply don't have the wherewithal to notice and be as thoughtful as I should. But I've been here in this situation so very recently I wanted to give you some support as best I could.
Hi Kizzie,
I understand feeling torn about going to your mom's funeral. Even after things with my m, I rushed to the hospital to be there with her after her aneurysm but didn't make it in time. I'm sure if she would have gotten better, there would have been the same dynamic there always was, leaving me feeling awful I'm sure. It's hard not to feel like a "bad" person in these situations. Someone brought up an old post a few weeks ago, where the OP had an epiphany of sorts that she just wanted to cut off all the emotional vampires in her life and was tired of feeling like she was giving and people just took and took. I know I stayed in my head a long time about what was the "right" thing and gave a lot of people a lot more than they deserve (and am still doing it to an extent). I feel like if you didn't go and people were truly concerned about you and what was going on with you enough to listen and given appropriate space, then those would be the people that you need in your life. There's always talk and there would probably be talk no matter what you decide to do. I hope you find the thing that you feel best about.
Sending you support,
dolly :hug:
Armee I thought a lot about what you went through and I know how terrible it was and is still so tk you for your support. :hug: I appreciate you being honest about everything. I know I have to prepare if you can actually prepare for something like this. There's that unpredictable layer of trauma in there that just makes everything more complicated.
That book you mentioned was one of the new ones I added to the list of top-rated books about trauma and the fact that it got such a high rating based on tons of reviews says something about being able to come out and speak our truth moreso these days. Of course family who still think my M was the greatest won't get it but I don't actually feel the need to try and educate them. There are places I can say how I really feel thank heavens.
I know I felt relief when my F died, one less difficult person to deal with and I do think most of me will feel free from the N behaviour but regret and sadness over not having the loving M I wanted so badly. I've been fairly LC so things haven't been too bad and that has even allowed me to feel a little connected to her although I have been very very careful not to let it go too far or it will activate the N behaviours if she thinks I am letting my guard down. That's pretty sad isn't it?
Tks for your honesty and support too Dolly. I'm so sorry you didn't make it in time to see your M as I know that likely caused a myriad of feelings, some that our extra trauma layer 'blesses' us with. I at least know I am a compassionate person and I am treating my M with kindness, but I do worry about being perceived as a 'bad' person by family if I don't go to her funeral as I went through a lot of judgement growing up and just don't wanted to be branded again. I could get sick as Armee suggested and I may have to do that if I don't think my mental health can take it. I have not been in a good place for a year or so so I may have to protect myself we'll see. I was similarly worried about my F's funeral but someone on our sister site OOTF suggested I just keep moving and that's what I did so I wasn't too inundated with sympathy. It went OK although I got really ill with a bad cold right afterward - the body does keep score.
Kizzie, I always want to say something but can never find the right words. I find this so difficult.
I relate to your feelings both of the relief you described and also of wanting to be compassionate. I can't imagine what I would do... Your health and well-being are literally everything. That needn't be downplayed.
:grouphug:
You are a kind and loving person. You are being gracious in spite of the pain and suffering and gaslighting she has inflicted.
Bermuda is right, your health and well-being are very much what matters here. You get to protect that over anything else. Hang on. You matter so very much.
And it sounds like perhaps I should read that book. :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on February 28, 2023, 04:59:48 PM
I at least know I am a compassionate person and I am treating my M with kindness, but I do worry about being perceived as a 'bad' person by family if I don't go to her funeral as I went through a lot of judgement growing up and just don't wanted to be branded again.
Honestly, me rushing to my m's side and going through the drama with my family just showed me the "grip" that the idea of wanting that m I never had still had on me. For me, her dying was a good thing too because that grip was released and I could start processing that fact that I would never have that m I needed or wanted. It was freeing. I'm starting to see now that the grip was partly probably fear of her aggression. Sadly, I guess a lot of people don't understand it or will understand it. The only thing I can or could do was speak my truth, and a lot of people didn't get it at the time. I did start sharing what actually was going on with my aunt not expecting anything, just the truth, and she thought stuff was going on but could never prove it. Being inauthentic is one of the things I struggle with and feel the "niceties" of polite society can escape me at times, but I know it's coming from things like this where I had to accept a lot of fake and bad behaviour that wasn't good for me.
My t has been helping me with those feelings of thinking I'm being a difficult person when I'm standing up for myself and I get what you're saying about not wanting to be judged. Perhaps though, it's harder on you to feel like you're appeasing everyone than doing things for you that might incur judgement, and the memory of what it was like might be different this time knowing that you're doing it for you and having that space for you? Not that it's an easy road by any means but none of this is easy. Maybe it's retaumatizing on some level though.
"I've been fairly LC so things haven't been too bad and that has even allowed me to feel a little connected to her although I have been very very careful not to let it go too far or it will activate the N behaviours if she thinks I am letting my guard down. That's pretty sad isn't it?"
I don't think it's sad at all but can understand maybe why you feel so activated around narcs because a part of you is still connected to her. The mother wound is huge and it's affect on us is lifelong I think. I feel like other people haven't lived my life and they don't get to judge my life just like I try not to judge them for theirs. The only interactions that matter are the ones between me and that person who it happened with though it's hard to stand up and be firm about what I'm doing at times.
Apologies for the ramble. This stuff is hard to go through but you've made it through with your heart in tact :grouphug:
Sending you support,
dolly
Quoteher dying was a good thing too because that grip was released and I could start processing that fact that I would never have that m I needed or wanted. It was freeing.
I sense there will be some pain because I never did get that M I needed, wanted and deserved, but then it will be freeing, like that last wee bit of hope is gone and I can move on. That's the problem with abusive parents, there is this hope that springs eternal - is that how the saying goes? Anyway, I gave most of it up but when I was suffering from anxiety and depression this last year I found myself saying I wanted my M a couple of times (which was really weird considering my age - 66), so it's still in there although not as overwhelming as it once was. I try out feeling I am without parents completely to see how it will feel but of course I don't really know.
Moving on, I went to the first session of group therapy for CPTSD survivors yesterday. There are 8 of us and it felt like I knew them all immediately. Even our therapist is a survivor so she totally gets it, just like Pete Walker (CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving). It's one of the few times I've ever been in a F2F group where I felt like everyone was like me, usually I feel like I'm an outsider, different, don't belong. Not this group. I think I may carry on after the 8 sessions with one-to-one therapy as she is a very caring and compassionate T and like I said, she gets it.
I also went for electroconvulsive therapy treatment on Friday - I do
not like it but if it keeps me from drifting down into the darkness I'll keep up with it. It's once a month now for 10 months and then I guess we'll reassess.
Busy week!
Gentle hugs if you want them, Kizzie. Glad that you had such a good experience in group! I hope it continues to work well for you.
I'm so glad that your experience in the group was so positive.
Tks Not Alone and Cactus Flower :hug:
I forgot to mention that the psychologist for the CPTSD group showed us some of the books she uses and one of them (of course) was Pete Walker's "CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving". It was kind of funny because it was literally falling apart. A couple of others in the group had read or were reading it and they said the same thing as she and I found, that it is relatable (and a bit of tough read) because he himself is a survivor.
One of the things I am anxious (already) about is having to deal with my NB when my NM passes away. He makes my teeth ache within about 10 minutes of being around him because he makes everything really complicated and like my NM goes to extremes to use events like this to showcase what a loving and wonderful son/person he is. Gah and ick.
It's another reason I'm considering not going to the actual funeral but going instead in our own time to her grave to say goodbye. I don't want to end up becoming a screaming banshee like I have when I was much younger. I am a calmer adult now and do have time to work on this I guess as she was given 6-12 months.
:grouphug:
It's OK to grieve and mourn in a more personal way and to skip the funeral when it happens if that is what feels right to you.
I hope your contact with NB can be minimal through and after this process and that all your skills you've developed can help protect you from his behaviors. It will be a difficult year but if you focus on what you need I'm confident you'll be ok through it. Just keep going taking care of you.
So I was talking to my Outreach Worker from the inpatient program I was in. He checks in every once in a while with me to see how I'm doing. Anyway I told him about my NM dying and that I was feeling such mixed feelings - compassion on the one hand and on the other I don't know, fear and relief? He said I should just go say goodbye and let it go. :blink:
That's the part about not understanding trauma that really hurts us as survivors I think. I just explained how troubled and anxious I am feeling and he minimized it. Honestly I've been feeling so triggered, not only by him but by the Day Treatment program I was in. I say was because I could not take any more CBT and the quiet pushing to be more positive about everything. I told them I was going to NS to help sort things out but really it was just so I didn't have to go through the whole educating them as to how I feel as a trauma survivor and why at age 66 I am still struggling. Really, in the end it's like well if I had a broken leg and it was left untreated you wouldn't say get on with it to me and with a smile on your face would you?
Ah well, I do have my CPTSD group and I know I can say everything I am feeling and they will all get it. Unfortunately we're on a two week break due to Easter and the T needing to go away. We're going to start our OOTS Zoom trial next Friday and I hope we all feel comfortable in fairly short order so we can say the things we can't elsewhere. I so need that right now.
He did minimize your feelings. I hear that you have many feelings about your mom dying; compassion, fear, relief and I'm sure many more. Your feelings are legitimate and important.
I found CBT to be pretty damaging for those exact reasons, Kizzke and I am sorry he didn't get it at all.
Just being near them can cause massive symptoms and that's not our fault. Our whole brain and body are screaming to stay away from this person despite what we want to do as compassionate humans. That is the whole thing right with things like disorganized attachment where you are both frightened and traumatized by your caregiver but also have the attachment need to try to get close. It sends the nervous system into chaos because there are contradicting impulses being activated all at once. It STILL feels like that. Fight flight freeze fawn all happening at once because we are nice and want to try to connect with someone damaging.
It is so difficult. You may still wish to go say goodbye but no joke it would take a toll. It still might be worth it in the long run for you. I remember for awhile I tried pretending my mom was a random stranger who had nobody and I was going to visit or take care of this poor soul who I had zero connection to or expectation of. I was trying to trick my nervous system. It did not work. Either way I'm not convinced you'll have regrets with decisions you make one way or the other. You may have grief, or maybe not. Maybe just relief and not much else.
Sending lots of strength to get through this difficult period. Soon you're free.
I'm sorry that your outreach worker did not get it at all. :hug:
Tks you both so much for your support and thoughts, I am back to having a really tough time. The whole CBT thing (which I do find helpful for some things but not the emotional wounds we have), the minimization plus dealing with the loss of my M has my nervous system in chaos as you say Armee.
I don't quite know what to do except to try and talk about it here and in my CPTSD therapy group. Unfortunately I will have to put our trial Zoom group on hold until I am back in a better place because I just can't manage it right now. It has helped in the past to take away as much stress as possible.
I hate being a survivor with CPTSD sometimes (often), I really do.
Tks BB, your post just came in. No he sure didn't get it did he?! I do think people think they are being helpful when they say things like that or sometimes because they are being lazy and don't want to deal with you but I so wish we had more professionals who get it.
I'm sorry to read about your struggles and that things are difficult, Kizzie. I so appreciate this forum, so thank you. My M has been dead 5 years now, and I am only just recently starting to have a better relationship with her. Remembering things I admired about her as a woman, and some positive things she did as a mother, because there were some. Even though people are no longer present, they remain with us and I still have the same old battles going on in my head about the if onlys, the whys, the what the Fs! It is in some way a relief not to have the difficult F2F stuff, but at the same time there's no longer any chance for redemption which is a source of deep sadness. As if there ever was. Now, we need to put ourselves first, every time, whatever the situation. I'm sure you will find the way to do what is right for you. Wishing you courage at this difficult time.
I'm very glad you are taking as much stress away as you can right now. Keep wiping things off.
I second Armee.
Good for you for taking care of you Kizzie! :applause: :hug:
Hi Kizzie, I just wanted to I read the last few pages of your journal to "catch up" with what's been going on with you. I'm so happy to hear you have a CPTSD group you can connect with and relate to. They are so lucky to have you there!
I truly empathize with your stage of relationship with your NM and NB. I'm not quite there yet myself but I know our time will come, and I worry about it. I think I'm starting to understand that whatever course of actions we choose, we will possibly be judged by the unconscious, unaware and highly codependent and narcissistic ones we are so surely surrounded by in our types of families. I'm more and more having high sensitivity to and low tolerance for people like your T who minimized and dismissed you. That is so just all about ThEM, which is very inept for a therapist! FFS.
I think it's great you're taking care of yourself and not taking on too much. The thought occurs to me that here you are the most empathic person, who many of us would consider the most supportive and understanding person we know. Your intuition and dedication here has been literally a lifesaver to so many of us. And then it's highly possible that in your day today you are surrounded by people who just simply don't get you. Even and especially family.Who are not capable of seeing you as you are. It's very sad to me that we all want those relationships so badly in the core of our being, are so devastatingly hurt by the lack of it, and yet when we reach out in even the slightest manner our longing for connection is snapped shut by these unaware people. Especially those who advertise themselves as the helpers.
Quote from: Phoebes on April 09, 2023, 02:39:43 PM
I truly empathize with your stage of relationship with your NM and NB. I'm not quite there yet myself but I know our time will come, and I worry about it. I think I'm starting to understand that whatever course of actions we choose, we will possibly be judged by the unconscious, unaware and highly codependent and narcissistic ones we are so surely surrounded by in our types of families. I'm more and more having high sensitivity to and low tolerance for people like your T who minimized and dismissed you. That is so just all about ThEM, which is very inept for a therapist!
:yeahthat:
What you write about your M and B is helping me understand the reactions in my own FOO, Kizzie. Though like Phoebes things aren't that far along yet. But it will come and I'm dreading it.
I was just re-reading an article about N parents and it helped me to understand why I don't want to go visit my NM who has terminal cancer before she dies. She is a covert or stealth N who has made it her quest to be perceived as the good, best really mother, wife, sister, aunt, friend.... and she has fooled a lot of people. I am so afraid of going to see her and having this erasure of abuse as described below happen to me. I know it happened, but it is so terribly painful that others do not.
This form of secondary gaslighting and invalidation is incredibly painful, especially when it comes from the very professionals, friends and family members who are meant to help support the survivor on their healing journey. Not only does secondary gaslighting from other people further isolate the survivor, it actually hinders the healing process. I cant tell you the number of times a survivor has reached out to me to tell me the painful effects of being invalidated by a friend, a family member, a spiritual leader or even a therapist who dispensed ill-informed, sometimes even victim-blaming ideas.
This also contributes to a global Gaslighting Effect in which speaking out about abuse by covert manipulators is met with some form of backlash, victim-blaming, and victim-shaming by enablers of abusers and abusers themselves.Survivor Ariel Leve explains that this form of secondary gaslighting in incredibly traumatic to the survivor. As she says, "It wasn't just that my reality was canceled, but that my perception of reality was overwritten...it wasn't the loudest and scariest explosions that caused the most damage. It wasn't the physical violence or the verbal abuse or the lack of boundaries and inappropriate behavior. What did the real damage was the denial that these incidents ever occurred...the erasure of the abuse was worse than the abuse."- Arabi, S. (2018) How Society Gaslights Survivors of Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Psychopaths (A Guide for Therapists, Law Enforcement and Loved Ones) (https://blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2018/10/gaslighting-survivors-of-narcissists-and-narcissistic-abuse/#.XHvUb3hryo0.twitter)
Thank you for including this in your Journal. I think I'm going to copy it into my own so I can add thoughts there instead of derailing your journal.
It is very painful and once again I'm sorry you're going through all of this atm Kizzie. :hug: :hug:
Tks BB, hugs are always good. Backatcha :hug: :hug:
:hug:
Tks you and one for you San :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on February 27, 2023, 03:38:17 PM
Tks everyone, I hope it proves to be helpful. The psychologist running it is a survivor too which gives me hope that she understands the nuance of CPTSD and will help us to get at the core of our wounds and try out some authentic relationship building with one another.
On another note, this week brought some news I'm not quite sure how to deal with. My NM received news that her cancer has returned and because of her age (93) and general health it is not treatable so she will be referred for palliative treatment. I feel compassion for her and at the same time fear of what this will bring in terms of triggers for me. E.g., I've already had a note from a cousin talking about treasuring my remaining time and that my M is such a wonderful person. My M worked hard to portray that so I dread the whole funeral and am considering not going when the time comes (6 months to a year). My mental health is not the best and I'm really afraid that would not help matters.
Life as a survivor is so fraught isn't it? And it's been my experience non-survivors don't understand why we feel/react the way we do which makes things even more difficult. At least I can talk openly and honestly to all of you and maybe by then I will have some peers IRL from the group.
I know this is from February, but I just read this, and wanted to say that I can identify with what you are going through. I understand being reluctant to go to your mom's funeral in the future, and wondering what to do, and wondering how other people will react if you do not go, and what you might say if you do go. I, too, was the truth teller (scapegoat) in my family, and was not appreciated at all for it, and labeled the crazy one because of it. The denial is rampant. At any rate, I can empathize with how you are feeling about this.
Tks so much Natureluvr, it's always both a relief and hard to hear when someone has experienced what you have. I was the 'overly sensitive one' and like you, not at all appreciated for being the truth teller. Once I learned they suffered from NPD I realized there was no point telling the truth as I saw it because as you say the denial was rampant and it didn't make any difference. It didn't even make me feel better because of that cast iron NPD shell they each had surrounding them. I never made a dent and that just made me feel worse so I detached from them. That was what helped the most.
:hug:
kizzie, i didn't attend either of my parents' funerals for one reason or another. i heard thru the grapevine how much flak people were throwing my way for not attending. i withstood and survived it. i have no doubt you will, too. we have to take care of ourselves first, you know that well. others will say or do whatever, and you'll probably get talked about no matter what you decide. i hope you decide on what's best for you. love and hugs :hug:
Tks for this San, it does help to know others didn't attend their parent's funerals and survived the flak. It's a no win situation, hard if you go, hard if you don't. I just have to do what is best for me. :'(
amen, kizzie :hug:
So I've been putting off the decision about whether to go and see my NM or not but now I am getting cornered a bit and will have to address the issue sooner rather than later.
I have been NC with my NB for a long time but recently he went in the hospital and it sounded like it was for his heart. My NM did not know why he had had surgery (typical N's, my NM did not ask him and he didn't tell her). Good grief, really? Anyway I suggested she ask him a direct question because it sounded like it could be serious.
Long story short it was an abdominal hernia. Her asking him opened the door to him emailing an long, extensive email to me though about ALL his medical issues. Very typical of him to just overwhelm others with info. I did tell him in an reply email I was glad it wasn't a cardiac issue and then made the fatal error of asking him about my NM's prognosis since I has not asked her directly (so awkward) nor the palliative nurse who is the point of contact for her care (putting it off I admit).
I should have known better.
He then asked the palliative care nurse in an email about the prognosis (because apparently he had not asked her either even though he deals with her on a regular basis), in case I went to visit her. Now she wants to know when I'm coming - sooner rather than later is best while my NM is able to 'enjoy' my visit, and so she can prepare my NM for the visit. WTAFudge? I know she is doing her best for my NM and assumes we have a good relationship but now I may have to tell her I don't or just not address it with her at all because that is an actual choice. I know I will need to deal with my NB though because there are arrangements, lawyers, etc.
This kind of thing happens every time I have any contact with my NB about anything which is why I have stayed NC. Everything gets complicated, he takes things far beyond his purview and I end up triggered and angry. Even my H was majorly po'd. So now I have try and calm my triggered self, regulate my anger so it is "clean" and respectful but direct and firm. First I have figure out what I want to do.
Any thoughts/support would be most welcome. And a hug or two, those are always good. :)
Dear Kizzie,
I just read what you wrote, and I wanted to first give you a very big hug :bighug:
You welcomed any thoughts on what you wrote - I would say that it's good that you've got the opportunity to communicate via E-mail to the supportive nurse, because you could literally say something quite neutral - e.g. "I am letting you know that I won't be visiting for personal reasons" (if you decide that) or you can say more if you want to.
I have to go right now - Kizzie - sorry - I started this message and then can't think properly to finish what I wanted to say. Really sorry.
But sending you a hug :hug:
Hope :)
Hugs. I guess you could just tell the nurse you have things going on and ask how much notice she ideally needs for a visit. Then you either give notice, or you don't.
:hug: My sympathies to you Kizzie, for being made to feel obligated to endure the dysfunction of NB and NM.
:grouphug:
It's understandable why you are putting it off. Perhaps put it off until something happens where you have to be involved.
I hope you can focus on self-care as you decide on how to proceed.
kizzie, first :bighug: so sorry you're having to go thru this. what a rock and a hard place you're between. i think i agree w/ the idea of telling the nurse you won't be visiting for personal reasons. i think many people have heard that before and understand the implication.
as far as NB, i hope you can back out of that as soon as possible, get done whatever has to be done and be able to bow out. this N crapola can turn us into mush if he stay w/in its orbit too long. love and hugs :hug:
:bighug: to you Kizzie
I also agree with telling the nurse you won't be visiting for personal reasons and put off NB until you have to deal with him.
My thoughts are with you Kizzie. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.
:sharkbait: best emoji for how I feel about my FOO.
This kind of thing happens every time I have any contact with my NB about anything which is why I have stayed NC. Everything gets complicated, he takes things far beyond his purview and I end up triggered and angry. Even my H was majorly po'd. So now I have try and calm my triggered self, regulate my anger so it is "clean" and respectful but direct and firm. First I have figure out what I want to do.
I'm sorry to hear you have got caught up in this mess. I'm struggling to comprehend things today, but from what it sounds like, you just asking what your NM's prognosis is may have set up an assumption that you will go see your mom. (not sure if "she" is the nurse, or your NM). If this happened to me, I would also feel angry, and stressed. It's not fair to you.
I'm sending you hugs and positive thoughts. :hug:
:hug:
Kizzie,
First I just want to assure you that palliative care doctors are very well aware that family relationships are not always good. That doctor will not be judging you.
Second, the doctor is operating on the assumption you want to spend quality time with your mom. Since you do not want to do that you absolutely do not need to go now. You do not owe the doctor any explanation. If you want to, a simple statement that the relationship is difficult will get across all she needs to know. The doctor is not judging you.
So please take a big deep breath and assess what you want to do right now. I don't think you need to feel backed into a corner, yet. It sounds like your brother is well enough to continue dealing with logistics. In the meantime, right now just worry about what you want from these last months.
By the way by the time the palliative care doctor got involved with my mom it was a 6 month time frame. She ended up going within a month and quickly. This process is full of uncertainty.
If you are on the fence, you could go for just 1 day. Fly in, say hi, fly out. Or you can not go yet. This is all about what you want and need. :hug:
Right here with you
Tks so much for the hugs everyone - hard to believe when I started the forum I did not even like emoji hugs. And tks for the suggestions and support, much appreciated, truly.
I do know these things on some level but they are getting a bit submerged in the triggering by my NB sticking his nose in. I know I am not answerable to anyone but myself and that my well-being must take precedence. I just have to talk to myself and get out of the FOG and back to that calm place where I am more regulated emotionally. Part of that is asking for support here, something I never really did much before and now understand how important it is.
The other part is not being in contact with my NB because the more I am, the wider he opens that door and the more confusion and chaos there will be. I forget when I am mostly dealing with non-N people just how crazy making the behaviour of N's can be. I will wait until I have to deal with him though, of that I am certain.
I'm not sure about contacting the palliative care nurse just yet as I'm not sure about going/not going. I have to be calm and know what I truly want to do or not do as the case may be and that's a discussion I'm having with myself at the moment. I do know I don't have to explain or justify anything, just simply state what I choose to or not even get in touch for that matter.
Armee - Tks for reiterating what you've posted before to me, I do take what you say on board, I guess I just need a fair bit of reassurance at the moment. :hug:
kizzie, here's a big hug full of reassurance :bighug: as you know, you come first, and what's best for you is the most important. it's difficult to untangle ourselves again once we step back in. you've got this. love and hugs :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
I'm sorry that's a very difficult situation. I reiterate what others have said on here that you have every right to tell the nurse that you're unsure of visiting as the relationship is difficult. I'm sure they've seen it all and you don't need to go into the details.
Sending you support,
Dolly :hug:
Big hug from me too. :bighug:
Kizzie, From my heart to yours, I'm sad this is happening to you right now. I have been where you are now so I am not unaware of how it feels to be in your shoes right now. Empathy connects us. I have also been with friends who are where you are now. It seems like I know more families with narcissism in them then those without. When a narcissistic mom is passing, family chaos seems to be unavoidable. You say you logically know what's happening here but you're still feeling the EF from the long-running icky chaos that is your NM and NB. That sounds like what I go through too. Knowing how it works helps us keep our shields up, but it doesn't eliminate the BS that we go through. It seems like there's no avoiding the EF for most of us when NM is passing, even though we know what's really happening.
I went to my mom's funeral in 2009, but was publicly humiliated and treated so badly by my Narcissister and her flying monkeys that I never went to my dad's funeral. He died 12 years ago with me out of his life at 100%. No part of me feels bad about that. After 12 years I still don't regret not being in his life during his final year. The danger that surrounded him was too severe. No guilt. I did what I was forced to do to keep myself safe.
It's often obvious to me that nurses are more aware of the patient's emotional situation that doctors are. Nurses deal with bad families every single day, especially at end of life scenarios. I would imagine that after a few days of caring for your NM, the nurse might be acutely aware of the narcissism, and is probably not judging you at all. Doctors are often singularly focused on the physical protocols of a person who's passing. "Time to call the relatives!" But nurses are often more aware of the emotions and human side of the event. A nurse might say "Maybe not all the relatives are up for being abused one last time."
So, as you go through this unavoidable fiasco in your family I hope that these virtual hug emojis you're receiving from all the friends you've made on this forum helps give some comfort to balance out the inevitable crapola that you're stuck dealing with via the narcissistic side of the family.
You're a beautiful human being with a heart that is always in the right place. The people here on this forum know that and that's why we want to hug you so much right now. :)
Oh heck: Here's another one: :bighug:
:hug:
Being dragged in and under by the narc shenanigans is so exhausting. Sending you a little bubble shield to ward it off for a few more days.
Wow you folks are great and I totally feel hugged and supported. You are the bubble shield Armee mentioned. If only we could have had one when we were all younger! I remember going through these types of triggering situations alone except for my H and no-one before I was married. I can't imagine how I survived, honestly. I guess I got good at stuffing things down but I can't do that very well anymore (witness the time in hospital recently), so I must find healthy ways of dealing with the things that I have not yet dealt with or that are thrust on me like this current situation.
Papa, tks for the absolutely lovely post I felt warmed to my toes, San for the reassurance, and Dolly good to see you back.
we got you, kizzie. thanks for letting us in. love and hugs :hug:
So I just emailed my NM who is terminal and told her I can't go to visit because my mental health is still wobbly and both my psychologist and psychiatrist recommended I stay put (true). I didn't tell her she was a big part of the reason, just that a trip was too much for me.
Hopefully this makes me feel better rather than worse. I am so trained to put her first so to put myself first even when she is terminal. This decision is something, I don't know quite what that is, but it's big. I have to hang onto the thought that she was never really there for me unless being the good mom made her look good or got her attention and that she put herself first always. Even when I had a serious cancer she loved all the phone calls she got from relatives and friends commiserating with her. That did me in.
So I have to tell the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) engrained in me to blow away if/when it floats in. Hard, just so hard.
Kizzie
My heart is with yours right now. When I left my family I just kept saying "My family finally got so ugly that even I couldn't love them anymore." And that affirmation helped me to put the blame for the separation squarely on where it belonged...onto the people who manipulated me rather than loved me. The statement also implies that I have a great capacity for love, and they rejected it so they could manipulate and hurt me every chance they got.
I can only imagine the emotional struggle this is bringing up for you. I support your decision to not visit her. I think it's wise and courageous. It's a major step in your life. You are taking a proper, self-protective step now. I also believe that it's causing a stir in your emotions because you were born with a good heart. You're there when people need you, your motives are pure in whatever you do, and you're dealing with a narcissist who, no matter what, will never care about you half as much as she cares about herself. She did the damage that you live with daily. So, now, as her life is finishing its journey you're putting distance between her and yourself. If not now, when? She WILL keep hurting you if you get too close. You have the right to protect yourself. She'll be miserable whether you're in the picture or not. Narcissists are just miserable people. Especially when they get older. They know they're too mean to be loved, but they keep manipulating anyway. Pushing people away.
I believe you are doing the right thing, and that, just because it's the right thing, that doesn't mean it's easy.
HUGE HUG from me: :bighug:
My earlier reply got lost in the ether, so I will say "yeah that" to everything Papa Coco wrote. I'm proud of what you've been able to do here, and the strength and boundaries you are implementing to get through this difficult situation will also be muscles you can flex easier in future situations life throws at you. If you can protect yourself for this, then perhaps everything else will almost feel easy.
I get how tough the decision must have been. But well done, you, for going through with it and sending that email. You need to look after you and I am so, so glad that is what you are doing. :bighug:
Hi Kizzie,
You did a big thing and took some space for yourself. I hope you and the parts of you that still want your nm can see that you are doing the best for you and not someone else. You are not responsible for her survival, she was meant to be responsible for yours. You didn't ask to be born, she was meant to take care of you.
A part of me got a bit alarmed that you told her it was for your mental health. In my family that would be seen as a weakness I feel, that there was something wrong with me. But I also think I would often take on the responsibility for not doing something because 1) it was just easier as they would never understand 2) I think a very young part of me always believed that it was my fault and was very willing to take it on in order to have her/their affection. This is relating to me of course, but I guess I got worried about your safety and if she can use that against you as well as my own reaction to it. The legacy of narcissism.
Like PC said, the right thing isn't always the easy thing :hug:
dolly
Thank you all so much. I know if I went there and gave her even a smidge of an opening, she would take a mile and possibly hurt me because that's what N's do as you say Papa. I also asked my NB not to contact me and he agreed but at some stage I will have to talk with him. Anyway, my NM replied and took the high road as I hoped she might. We've been in touch more than before and I am kind and supportive, but also she wants to maintain that good M image right to the very end and I'm happy for her to do so. I am very relieved although I wonder what's ahead because she will decline.
I did tell her it was for my own mental health because she was aware I was in the hospital, in an inpatient and outpatient program and receiving electroconvulsive therapy. I am trying to be honest these days and not feel shame or that I have to be secretive about what I'm going through. She of course did not ask why I was depressed and anxious. She may have spread the word because it garners her attention but I don't care, I'm not in touch with my extended family. Let them think what they think. I would have been so terrified if she found out a few decades back for the whole reason she would use it, but not anymore and that's a good feeling.
Hi Kizzie,
Thanks for clarifying. I get that you don't want to feel shame or be secretive about what you're doing. I didn't see it as any of those things. I think, to me, it would have been protective and an understandable thing to do given your nm's past behaviour, not in a hiding way though. Something I'm still learning, very slowly I might add, is that with certain people you need to be protective and that trust is earned. Actually, my t has taught me that trust has to be earned with everyone. I was always very quick to be open and divulge everything etc because I didn't want to hide anything, but found that other people didn't approach me with that same energy and I would then be left reeling when they hurt me/didn't show up like that. Also something I never learned growing up because I always had to be open and available for supply. This pertains to me though and glad you're at a good place with it. I'm sorry she didn't ask you how you were doing :hug:
I definitely don't share this with anyone as you're absolutely right, there are many people out there who are not trustworthy, one of those being my NM. I did share with my M because I wanted her to know I was not in a good place and could not visit, even if that meant her telling other family/friends. As I said, that's OK because I don't see any of them any more.
I also told a friend I know had trauma in her background, my son, you folks here, my colleagues at the Complex Trauma Special Interest Group because if you can't trust them.... plus I was Co-Chair and had to step away. And I wrote the article about being in care and it was published in their newsletter because it will go to clinicians and professionals in the field of trauma, again very trustworthy group. I also put it in our blog because again, survivors and professionals reading it are inherently trustworthy if they are taking the time to read it IMO.
Good point to make I agree, if you're going to out yourself make sure you do it in a safe way and that you can manage any kind of criticism or whatever comes your way because of it. Before this I was secretive with everyone pretty much except my H, I didn't even really talk to my S about my difficulties. And here I felt as Admin I had to be strong or something :whistling: Kind of crazy I know but that's where I was at before.
Now I want to talk about these things with caring/supportive people because I am through being secretive and ashamed. My NM was the exception because of the circumstance of her being terminal, otherwise I probably would not have told her. It felt normal that she did not ask why I was depressed and anxious by the way, I barely thought about it which tells you how little we expect from N parents. One sign of recovery I guess is that does not hurt me as deeply as it once would have, it's just sad.
Quote from: Kizzie on July 07, 2023, 03:52:05 PMGood point to make I agree, if you're going to out yourself make sure you do it in a safe way and that you can manage any kind of criticism or whatever comes your way because of it.
I needed to read that this weekend. Thank you.
Quote from: Kizzie on July 07, 2023, 03:52:05 PMAnd here I felt as Admin I had to be strong or something :whistling: Kind of crazy I know but that's where I was at before.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: for your progress on this point! Not crazy though, no, I wouldn't say that, so please don't be hard on yourself for where you were then :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on July 07, 2023, 03:52:05 PMNow I want to talk about these things with caring/supportive people because I am through being secretive and ashamed.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :hug:
Quote from: Kizzie on July 07, 2023, 03:52:05 PMIt felt normal that she did not ask why I was depressed and anxious by the way, I barely thought about it which tells you how little we expect from N parents. One sign of recovery I guess is that does not hurt me as deeply as it once would have, it's just sad.
It IS sad but I'm glad your M's reaction no longer hurts as much as it would have before.
So lovely to see you back on the forum BB and tk you for your kind and supportive thoughts. :hug:
I should add that when/if the book a group of us are seeing about writing (an anthology of survivor stories and essays about what we want others to know) comes to fruition I am going to use my real name rather than a pseudonym. It's time and I want others to know that relational trauma is NOT something you can think your way out of. I have a doctorate and I have exactly the same symptoms and issues as everyone here and I struggle to recover so it impacts everyone who is exposed to it. And I also want to send the message that it isn't something that you can just let go of or that fades over time. It affects us over the lifespan. I am 66 soon to be 67 and here I am. We need more and better treatment and services specifically for relational trauma just like the vets and first responders have for PTSD and the trauma they face(d).
Wow, guess I really am out now lol. ;D
I'm glad you have the strength to do what you did. "The gossip" was one of the things in my family that really triggered me, having other people speak about me when I wasn't present. I guess the situation just felt so out of my control, and made other situations feel out of my control not to mention doubting myself. When people do that, it's like a complete feeling of powerlessness. It took me a long time to realize that that's not true (and still working on it).
I don't think you have to be strong as an admin, we're all human and all trying the best we can with this stuff. I've only told one person at work about PTSD and regretted it because I don't think anyone is trustworthy where I work, but that could be fearful avoidant stuff. I do feel more empowered now having people earn my trust. For me, I think being the truth teller in my family, or the way being a truth teller played out where I told the truth but was then dragged back into the family, constantly having to prove myself, has turned me into a crusader at times. I will "fight" for things or stand up for what I believe in, even if it is costly in a way to me, emotionally, physically, etc. On some level I feel I'm doing the right thing, but on another still playing out my role in the family dynamic. I was always the strong one, the one that took on all the responsibility etc. It's one of those things that's almost like a double edged sword - I think that growing up in an NPDfamily gave me these qualities and t's a good thing (to see the truth etc), but maybe in doses that work for me? Another one I'm still working out.
I echo what bb said, I'm glad your m's reaction doesn't hurt as much as before. :hug:
I agree Dolly, that whole smear campaign had me scared to death for a lot of my years which is why I ended up going NC with my family and extended family. Just could not handle knowing my NM was painting a certain picture of me that was damming. I saw her do it with my father, and I knew from things family said to me she was doing it to me. After a few years of NC I realized I didn't really care anymore, go ahead and think what you like because I know none of it is true and I don't see anyone so no more awkward events to go to and cringe a week ahead of them thinking what my NM had said about me. What a terrible thing to do when you think about it. Now when I hear a parent say what I would class as mean things about their child I immediately wonder if they are N. I never said anything like that about our son and most healthy parents didn't say really negative things either. There was complaining of course but nothing putting a child down. Huge red flag with me.
I see myself as the truth teller in my family too BTW. One T I saw years ago said "You took the family picture down off the wall and smashed it" and that was why I was the scapegoat. It's a 'good' thing I think Dolly, we may have developed CPTSD but not NPD which is I think where many of us end up is we can't see reality, if we can't keep grounded in some way. Maybe being the one who has to fight does that I don't know.
So I am having a really tough time this week, a ton of anxiety I can't seem to bring down so have asked to see my psychiatrist to see if we can increase me medication temporarily or permanently, I expect he will know.
My NM is getting worse and that weighs on me. Plus we are trying to thin out a big three bedroom house to get ready to move in the fall and that is making me quite anxious - giving up things that have meaning, the whole idea of moving again (moved many times in my life as my H was military as was my father).
My mom did send a picture of my F on what would have been his birthday and it seems to have started from there. When I opened the email it was a giant picture of him and it rocked me back on my heels. I had been remembering all the ways in which he was abusive and that brought up even more things. I guess that was it, it made me remember my entire childhood as really quite awful.
I hate having CRTR (CPTSD).
:bighug:
I can't imagine, Kizzie. Just seeing my mom's handwriting on something out of the blue is disturbing. I couldn't imagine how triggered I'd be by an unexpected and uninvited large photo. I'm so sorry for everything you've been through and are going through. It's a lot. You're doing a lot. Take care, your health first. :grouphug:
Tks Armee, awesome hug!
We just had our Zoom group and I can't believe this but I forgot what had really upped my anxiety. I had conjunctivitis last week and the drops my optometrist gave me had steroids in them. I react badly to steroids even small amounts. I had steroids in my cocktail for cancer in 2007 and wow did they send me. I was climbing the walls and freaking out. I had to beg the oncologist to stop them. Anyway, anything with steroids in it cause my anxiety to rise, even eye drops four times daily for a week. What they do is amplify anything I'm feeling anxious about and that was the picture of my father that appeared on my screen, my NM's worsening condition and our move.
I still need to talk to my psychiatrist about what I can do/take when this kind of thing happens or I am badly triggered. No amount of mindfulness or calm breathing seems to help.
Ugh. That email. How very unpleasant. I can totally see how that would bring up a ton of grimness. :hug:
Hi Kizzie,
I'm sorry you had to go through that. Being sent something like that by my gm would have thrown me for a loop.
Hope you're finding a way to regulate :hug:
dolly
Tks DollyVee and NarcKiddo :hug:
with you, kizzie. i hate being blindsided. it brings out the worst in me, or shuts me down completely. never good tho. love and hugs :hug:
:bighug:
Tks San and Moondance, it really did blindside me. Tells me how much I am still reactive to some things and maybe always will be. I had thought I would eventually just get over all this - hah!
Kizzie, I'm sorry to hear about your bad reaction to the steroids. I understand the reactivity, because I'm the very same way. I, too, hope my reactivity reduces someday.
Tks Natureluvr :hug:
Quote from: Armee on July 28, 2023, 03:49:34 PM:bighug:
I can't imagine, Kizzie. Just seeing my mom's handwriting on something out of the blue is disturbing. I couldn't imagine how triggered I'd be by an unexpected and uninvited large photo. I'm so sorry for everything you've been through and are going through. It's a lot. You're doing a lot. Take care, your health first. :grouphug:
:yeahthat: :hug:
yeah, kizzie, i keep thinking/hoping that those triggers are going to be taken in stride when BAM! another one knocks me over instead. it absolutely sucks, and i, too, am sorry you're having to go thru this. love and hugs :hug:
I know, right San?! I talked to my T about this and told her I am shifting from thinking I will eventually get rid of the symptoms to managing them better. I believed there would come a day when it would all be gone, but I see now that it won't.
It is depressing that it doesn't ever go away but I feel like if I accept that, it will make things easier. It's like hoping my NM would change and then accepting she wouldn't, it did make things easier. Anyway, like you it's that "bam" thing that I hate, the triggers I don't see coming I must say that bother me the most. Understandable I guess.
I'm reading Pete Walker's book at the moment and have just got to the bit where he likens it to diabetes. You can't get rid of it but you can manage it. I think he is right. But I also think that there could/will be a time when you don't actually notice any symptoms, or hardly ever do.
For quite a few of us there will come a time when our abuser no longer walks this earth. In your case, sooner rather than later, Kizzie. Dealing with that transition is always going to be tough, as is realising that once the person is no longer here, we still remain along with all of our baggage. I have realised, since starting therapy, that when the longed-for day arrives for me I may not be much further forward unless I have worked on myself. I guess there will always be things that trigger us. I am often surprised by things seemingly unrelated to my mother that get me worked up.But surely once the primary trigger is gone things have to get easier. And surely we get better at noticing what is problematic for us and learning how to manage it. And eventually everything that was so, so hard at first becomes a habit. We know how to love ourself. We know how to set boundaries. We know what situations are likely to be problematic so we can avoid if possible and prepare if necessary. I used to be obese, drank to horrendous excess and never took exercise. I have turned all of that round. It took years but what was hideously tough and unpleasant is now a non-negotiable part of my life and I can honestly say I enjoy it. I know it would be easy to back slide if I don't monitor what I am doing, especially on the wine and chocolate front when NM needles me. But it's OK at worst and damn good at best. I honestly think all of us can hope to achieve OK at worst and damn good at best with our C-PTSD too.
That all rings very true with me NK. There's still triggers now that all my parents are all gone they are just triggers. While she was still alive I was being retraumatized at least weekly and that's a whole different ball game. Once they are gone...healing is possible. I feel mostly good most of the time. 2 years ago I couldn't step straight.
I agree in the sense that there won't be anyone left to blindside me like my NM does. I am estranged from my NB and most of the flying monkey family left so I can relax finally. There will be other difficult life events to be sure, but the Big N ones, gone. Halleluyah! I wonder if my hypervigilance will settle? Interesting thought.
I talked to my T about this and told her I am shifting from thinking I will eventually get rid of the symptoms to managing them better. I believed there would come a day when it would all be gone, but I see now that it won't.
This is a good insight. I think it is more realistic. I do still have hope that the triggers will at least become less severe.
My M passed away this morning in her sleep and peaceful according to my B. I just feel sad and a bit relieved at the moment. I don't know how I will feel as the realization sets in but hopefully I won't devolve into EFs.
:hug:
I'm sorry for your layer of losses and grief, Kizzie, in all their complexities. We're here with you through whatever shows up.
Tks so much Armee, it really does help that I am not alone with this, that I don't need/want to stuff it down as I would have in the past, and that I can say what I need to and you will all get it.
I can only imagine the conflicting mass of emotions as this door is finally closed. You have had some time to prepare yourself, inasmuch as anyone can prepare themselves for this, so I hope you do not struggle too much with whatever emotions surface. As Armee said, we're here for you.
:grouphug:
Dear Kizzie,
My sincere condolences on your loss, and thinking of you. :grouphug:
Hope
Tks NarcKiddo and Hope. So far so good as I was able to prepare myself. I broke down when I first learned she was terminal and then when she went in hospice but I was expecting the phone call any day and it's been over a month. I don't really have many conflicting emotions as I think I went through a lot of that leading up to today. I hope so anyway.
Thinking of you Kizzie :grouphug:
Along this journey, to be able to find your way through to your own peace with awareness and grace has been impressive. Thank you for sharing, with raw frankness, the intensity of what you've gone through.
May you continue to find your way forward.
:grouphug:
Kizzie, the best to you as you navigate this complicated emotional territory. Sending love and warm thoughts :hug:
Tks BB, Woodsgnome and Bach.
Kizzie,
Sending you love and warmth. The world will feel a little different now. I'm glad you have so many friends here to be there for you while it all sinks in.
:bighug:
Tks Papa
Quote from: Kizzie on August 04, 2023, 03:12:51 PMI agree in the sense that there won't be anyone left to blindside me like my NM does. I am estranged from my NB and most of the flying monkey family left so I can relax finally. There will be other difficult life events to be sure, but the Big N ones, gone. Halleluyah! I wonder if my hypervigilance will settle? Interesting thought.
I think that it will. I know that mine did once I got out of the marital residence. Found a rental, and moved. From the 20th to the 25th. The idea that the former spouse could do a drive-by (yes she has gotten even worse in her behavior. Not that I am in direct observation of it. the info comes 2cd hand) or do something like set the structure on fire or throws poisoned meat over the back fence (the alley was wide open to anyone that wants to go down it) to kill my doggo. The new location has gated access to the alleys.
Now, I'm incognito from the former spouse. Yes, she knows that I moved but she doesn't know where. I intentionally moved further into the metro area. Renting keeps my name off any publicly available real estate records. and here shortly I'll have new email addresses, and then a new mobile # and carrier.
I'm not saying that it's completely gone. But the down regulation has been significant enough that I can definitely tell the difference. I'm hopefully expecting that as I get into the groove of the new location, and finish setting up the space as I intend to, that my hypervigilance will drop even more.
I wish you all the best.
hope you're doing ok, kizzie. love and hugs :hug: