Out of the Storm

CPTSD and Others => Family => Our Relationships with Others => Parenting => Topic started by: sanmagic7 on August 29, 2016, 01:17:39 AM

Title: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 29, 2016, 01:17:39 AM
elsewhere on this board, there is a discussion about the degrees of c-ptsd, and that at the extreme end it is possible for something within someone to 'break' and develop full-blown npd.  i'm afraid that's what happened with my daughter, and that i'm to blame.

my pregnancy was fraught with anxiety, angst, arguments w/ my hub, as well as smoking pot and drinking alcohol.  i was so upset when i found out i was pregnant (i was already planning to leave him at the end of the semester) that i immediately asked the doc to schedule me for an abortion.  i didn't think of the fetus as a baby at all, but the potential for one.  my hub had become a cokehead, and i knew the marriage wasn't going to work, and i also knew that i couldn't raise a child on my own (somehow i knew i wasn't capable, didn't have the stability - i didn't know then that i was severely depressed and was a full-blown alcoholic/addict.  we just used subs like everyone else we hung around with).  i also didn't know about what effects such subs could have on an unborn child.  we even drank with an ob/gyn, and he never said anything was wrong with what i was doing.  this was almost 40 yrs. ago.

my hub left me when i was 7 1/2 mos. pregnant, i went to live with a girlfriend (he had pleaded w/ me not to get an abortion, that we'd make it work, and i wanted to believe that, so i stayed pregnant, stayed in the marriage, always hoping.) and went on welfare.  somewhere in that time frame, about a month later, i was home alone, began thinking about having a baby, working,  and going back to school for something (i was a lousy waitress) and the depression washed over me that i knew i couldn't do it.  i got up to write my suicide note, when the baby kicked.  i sat back down, realized that i couldn't do it cuz i'd be killing a baby who would live if it had been born right then.  the baby and i saved each other's lives that night.

(my heart is pounding right now, and i've told this story a zillion times, but not with the knowledge that i'm the one who probably cost my daughter a lifetime of pain and anguish, traumatizing her before she was even born.)   the guilt is overwhelming.  after she was born, i went back to live with my mom for awhile, but could take no joy in my baby or in being a mom.  it was a burden.  a chore.  i did what i was supposed to do, but with no happiness.  i know she must've felt it. 

when my second daughter was born, #1 began exhibiting anger and resentment and judgment toward me.  i saw it in her eyes, could feel it coming off her.  throughout her life she has had many diagnoses of varying types of mental illnesses, and i took care of her as best i could (my narc hub pretty much checked out, my younger daughter shrank out of the way).  i'd stopped the subs by the time she was 7, but she was out of control in so many ways.  and, she began her abuse, emotional torture of me already.

if what i read is true, that her pre-natal trauma could be the direct cause of not only her own c-ptsd but her npd (she hasn't been formally diagnosed, but she fits the category), then her anger is justified, her treatment of me because of her personality disorder is something i brought on myself.  i'm trying to wrap my head around all the things about i didn't know at the time, i did my best, i had an illness, i had the disease of sub. abuse, etc., blah blah blah, but this is a tough one. 
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Three Roses on August 29, 2016, 01:51:35 AM
Ah, to be able to go back and do it over! I feel responsible for the troubles my sons have, too - and altho it's cliche that "we did the best we could", it's also very true. You can't hold yourself responsible for what you didn't know - "when you know better, you do better" - it's senseless to say that the sanmagic at 20 years old should have known as much as the sanmagic of 60 or 70, or even 30 for that matter. We do what we can with what we have, and ask God or the universe (pick your flavor) to cover our mistakes.

All that being said, I have 2 last points. The first is that even the experts don't agree yet on the causes of NPD. And, we really are good at accepting the blame for everything, even things outside our control. So I'm choosing to show myself some grace, and be gentle with myself. Because if the experts can't tell me I've caused it, why should I shoulder that burden? :)

Be gentle with yourself. :hug:
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 29, 2016, 01:58:18 AM
thank you.  that's exactly what i needed to hear.  crying with relief. 
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Three Roses on August 29, 2016, 02:05:25 AM
 :cheer: :applause:
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Sandstone on August 29, 2016, 06:09:30 AM
That was a lovely answer Three Roses  :hug:
Yeah i remember being told 'when u give birth you also get to take home a suitcase full of guilt. Ain't that the truth!
I smoked pot heavily till i was 7 months pregnant. My daughter arrived on her due date but she only weighed 3lb 14oz. She'd stopped eating when inside me. She sure has made up for it tho, she towers me lol. Anything wrong with her i instantly blame myself. She is doin her 2nd year A levels studying law and politics! I think what im trying to say is we gotta balance our mistakes out with the good stuff too. If we can take responsibility for the things that may be wrong then surely we are responsible for the good stuff too!
Thats just how i try see things. As Three said 'when u know better....you do better i think for me thats the difference to someone like my mum who never learns and continues to choose bad behavoiur (thieving, lying)every time. There points in life where you either change or you dont want to change. You are one of the few people who are actively and genuinely working on yourself, thats a big thing.. just a shame our parents couldnt have done the same thing. Big  :hug:
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Sandstone on August 29, 2016, 12:13:08 PM
When i say one of the few people actively working on oneself i obviously dont mean folk in here, these are a bunch of brave awesome guys. But u know i meant in the real world lol.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 29, 2016, 02:44:10 PM
thanks, sandstone.  that warmed my heart.  tears of gratitude. 

i have a hard time thinking of any of her good qualities.  too many triggers, cuz the neg. stuff is so overwhelming.   it just hurts.  but your kindness is truly appreciated.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Sandstone on August 29, 2016, 05:05:35 PM
 :hug:
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Wife#2 on August 29, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Sanmagic - Oh, you beautiful person, you! Cyber-come-over here for a big CYBER HUG!

Yes, we who are already dealing with c-PTSD from our own childhoods and adulthoods have a different perspective on the whole parenting thing. And, of course, since we are dealing with deep childhood issues, it's easy to see the links between OUR mistakes and our children's troubles.

However, reading your story closely, I uncovered two real facts. Ok, three real facts. 1) You were already dealing with c-PTSD problems, though you didn't have a diagnosis. 2) Your husband walked out on you. 3) It isn't always the parent's fault!

1 - Just because you didn't realize back then that this was going on, doesn't make it less real. And, have you ever met the 15-25 year-old who has ALL their S**T together? I haven't. You were a young mother, dealing with c**p you had no skills in dealing with, doing what many of us in that situation would have done (checked out via subs). Having to move home to mother during this time could NOT have been the 'easy' solution - just the only solution.

2 - Even in the best of situations, being a single parent is not ideal. That you were still hurting, and yes using, didn't make the situation better, but certainly isn't the ONLY reason your daughter struggles. I think the disappearing Dad does deserve his fair share of responsibility in this. Girls need a loving, caring Dad - it can overcome a lot of hurt when one is present. Your ex checked out of her life. Shed at least 50% of your self-blame right there.

3 - Not all of your issues can be laid at your parent's feet, right? Yes, because of things that happened there, you didn't make all the best or healthiest choices coming into adulthood. However, some of your pain has come at the hands of others since you did reach adulthood, including a man who thought parenthood sounded good until it was time to BE a parent! Why would her life, your daughter's life, be any different? Yes, those shortcomings you spoke about are there and are true. But, they're not the WHOLE story of how she ended up on her current path. Other forces have helped to shape her, beyond you.

I may try to blame my mother for everything that's wrong with me - easy enough - she is uBPD with histrionic tendencies. I was a thorn in her side, easy to ignore, even while I was a useful tool for spying on my Dad. However, Dad's constant rejection of me over his NEW family, or because of his NEW family, or because that became his habit with me, his disappearing from my life as I became a teenager, those have had their damaging effects as well. Then, there are a myriad of things that happened in my adult life, as a result of bad choices *I* made, that reinforced those negatives inside my own head.

The lessons I wasn't taught or were taught badly in childhood were my parents' fault. But not all of them! Some belong to a brother. Some belong to cruel children in school. Some belong to equally cruel teachers. Some belong to boyfriends who reinforced my already low self-esteem. Many of my mistakes came from not doing the painful work you're doing, working through it all until I could reach a place of true mental health. Or at least as healthy as I'll ever be. If I'm not there now, that's on me. My mother didn't prevent me seeking therapy - in fact I did as early as college. My mother didn't prevent me from growing as a human being - I did, with the help of sisters and dear friends. My mother didn't put me in a bad marriage - I did that all by myself, eyes fogged before I even knew what that meant. She didn't even find out about my marriage until a week after it happened! No WAY I could blame her.

You may not even know some of the things that went into your daughter's choices. I know there were things I kept from my mother as early as 11 years old. Why doesn't even matter at this stage of the game, I kept them secret. They helped shape who I became and who I am now. Your daughter may well have secrets that helped shape her also. That is especially likely if you saw the drawing away from you as early as her teen years. With that being true, not all of her problems may be laid at your feet. There was likely a LOT going on you weren't told. This NPD path, where everyone but her is to blame and that she deserves better than most other people, happened with forces beyond just you involved.

NO, I do not believe that you are to blame for your daughter's NPD.

I can only imagine how scary it was to share your story. That is sincere bravery. If we are honest with ourselves, many of us would rather not heal that part of ourselves than to bare our souls as you have done. I don't think you deserve the self-doubt or self-blame that you've heaped on  yourself. Even more reason for me to respect you and your courage for putting it out there for others to judge.

You really are an amazing woman, Sanmagic7. You really are!
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 30, 2016, 02:57:19 AM
more tomorrow.  i just finished a funeral for self-doubt, guilt, and self-blame.  gotta go pound the bed now.  i'm so p***ed!!!  thanks for everything.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on August 31, 2016, 12:35:17 AM
well, wife#2, you opened up the gates of rage within me.  for some reason, i never gave any - is credit the right word?  no -  blame to the fathers in her life and the parts they both played and didn't play in her upbringing dynamic.   they saddled me with the full responsibility of what happened with her and/or sat back and watched as i struggled to do it without any support.  no wonder i blamed myself - i was set up to do so!

hub #1, bio father, checked out, like i said, and gave up parental rights.  hub #2, adoptive father, checked out emotionally from everything that was going on in front of him, set me up to take the fall for everything, never gave me any support or consideration (well, i know now he's a narc), refused to help except in superficial ways that made him look good (when she was in the psych hosp. in the suburb where he worked, he always went to visit her on his lunch hour.  it was 30 mi. away, and i couldn't get there, but he looked like the parent who was very caring and concerned), and on and on.

there were so many other things he did to and while he was with her, but i hesitate to mention them for fear of triggers.  needless to say, i hate him, won't forgive him, and refuse to call him 'dad' of my daughters, cuz a real dad would never act like that.

all this came to my mind after reading your post, wife#2, and i nearly killed my wrist from pounding my bed so hard!!!  thank you for opening that door for me.  for whatever reason, altho i'd felt angry at both the fathers, i never allowed them their share of responsibility in what happened to her.  and, that responsibility is a great big chunk - huge! 

so, i was able to lay to rest self-blame, self-doubt, and guilt, the 3 cousins involved.  their funeral flowers are currently on my desktop.  among other flowers, there are a few roses, and their thorns remind me of how my heart has bled because of what they did to her, and how they shredded me into believing this was solely between me and her (narc ex actually told me that).  they didn't do their job, didn't protect her from themselves, didn't care for her in the way she needed.  i won't say what i think of them, but insert any cuss word that comes to mind!   

once again, help has come when i needed it, and i'm ever so grateful.  i'm also not shutting the door on the idea that my anger is all spent now.  when i was raging yesterday, i did so until i was exhausted, but i'm aware that there is probably more there.  every little bit out, tho, is helping me get well.  and, my ultimate goal is threefold - health, sanity, and calm.  i'm still sane, and working on the other two. 

it was almost like the responses i received to this issue came in ever-increasing levels of intensity, until the door was forced open and my eyes were clear to see the real problem.  it was perfect.  i am not responsible for my daughter's npd, nor for all her pain, terror, misery, and everything else that went wrong with her life.  i take responsibility for my part, but i also allow the rest of the responsibility to fall where it belongs.  and, on the other side of this tortilla, i was the only one who was working to make her okay, truly okay.  they harmed more than helped.  and, i'll take credit now for all that i did that was right.  big sigh of relief. 

thanks to all of you for helping me through this.  i've worked on this issue before in therapy and on my own, but this feels more complete than the other efforts.  forward. . . .
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 02, 2016, 12:12:16 AM
two days later, i am still feeling an inner calm where none was before.   i think this has been one of my biggest fears, something that kept nagging at me even while i attempted to deal with it, push it down, turn away from it.  some intrinsic tension has left my body and my mind.  i still have more funerals to do, but they're seeming like a piece of cake now.  we'll see, though.  i may be fooling myself one more time.  still . . .i have to admit that i feel different after this.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Wife#2 on September 02, 2016, 12:40:28 PM
I hope, dear friend, that relief is a part of the new mixture. Relief that you can, really and truly, take yourself off of the cross labeled 'bad mother'. You've been hanging up there so long that I'm afraid your arms and legs will take some adjusting to their newfound freedom. Those nails of self-blame and self-doubt didn't belong to you. You can't really MAKE them go where they belong (but the thought of them going there may be a little healing).

Yes, the anger will come back. It should come back - a lot went into forming that righteous anger. Years of your and your daughter's life when into it. Allow the anger this time. It's there to tell you that you now recognize HOW you and your daughter were wronged. Let it flow through so it can be released.

I sincerely love your dedication to getting well, to moving forward and finding your best place. The funerals are absolutely genius and I will be 'borrowing' that idea when I'm ready.

Thank you for allowing us to be a part of this journey, for witnessing it with you as you go. You genuinely ARE an amazing woman.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 02, 2016, 10:38:44 PM
thank you, wife#2.  writing 'dear friend' truly touched my heart.  it was beautiful to read.

more anger has already come up, and i'm glad of it.  it does feel righteous, and at last feels like it's where it belongs.  we were wronged, both my daughter and i, and have paid a horrible price.  i am choosing to climb out of the muck by every means possible.  your help has made it easier.  that goes for everyone who has been so supportive.  i truly couldn't have done this without you, any and all of you. 

the nail holes will leave scars, i'm sure, but they will serve as reminders of what i escaped, and lookouts so that i don't get caught in the same dynamic again.   all parts are working together now, which is a good feeling.  calmer, more stable, very different!  thank you for your kind words.  they nestle in my heart now.  as always, forward.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: Wife#2 on September 07, 2016, 02:21:35 PM
I am so glad and relieved to hear that you are feeling more peaceful and more whole now. I do mean dear friend. Though I don't post as often as I should (limited privacy at home), I do think of you and many others here every day, hoping that your day is a good day, or at least being gentle on you.
Title: Re: triggers? am i to blame for my daughter's npd?
Post by: sanmagic7 on September 07, 2016, 04:30:35 PM
that is so sweet.  thank you very much.  you're in my heart.