Out of the Storm

I'm not even sure if I have anyone in my life with a personality disorder. What I  have had and still have for sure are alcoholics in my life. I can relate to cPTSD but haven't been officially diagnosed. I was told I had PTSD about 15 years ago though so I probably could have cPTSD.

Today I was supposed to have my first phone T session in a year and my therapist didn't call. I waited 8 days for the appointment and it was a huge disappointment so I figured this would be a good time to start journaling.

I primarily wanted to talk to my T about my job and feeling too disabled to continue doing my current job. I work (part-time atm) in emergency/ critical care in the medical field and I feel like it is a very bad fit for someone with my mental health issues. I often have nightmares about my work and that has been happening for a long time. I've applied to other jobs but no one wants to take a chance on hiring me for significantly lower pay and I suppose the concern is that I wouldn't stay. It's been hard being continually rejected. I feel too out of sorts currently to even contemplate applying for more jobs or even figuring out what type of work I would want to do.

I was hoping T could point me in the right direction for applying for disability until I can get myself together enough to take on the stress of figuring out a career change. I haven't worked full time in three years and it's taking a financial toll plus I'm not getting any better because I'm still doing the same work and not addressing my other issues. It's like a viscous cycle but I don't feel like I can completely quit right now without losing everything. I have gotten my eating disorder in remission so that's one positive thing I've accomplished in the last three years.

There are other issues too but right now the job seems the most pressing thing I need to deal with first to open up space for working on me. I might try the free counseling offered through my job since my T didn't call for our appointment today. It stinks because I trusted her and she let me down but I have to be a grown up and figure out how I can get the counseling I need.
To be continued...

free counseling sounds like a better idea than no counseling.  that's really a bummer that your t let you down like that.  grrr!  perhaps an on-site counselor can help steer you in a positive direction toward what you're looking for.  i've been out of work so long, i'm pretty unknowledgable about what's available in the workplace nowadays.  best to you with this.  i hope you get the help and suggestions you need. 

Thanks for the reply sanmagic7. I got the number for the counseling when I was at work today so now all I have to do is call.
The thing with my t really bothered me. I suppose I could have emailed her but after that happened I'm not even sure I want to bother with it. It's like a repeating pattern in my life right now where I have to constantly advocate for my needs and to get adequate treatment and I'm feeling a little worn out. I guess I was fawn for so long that speaking up for myself is something I'm still working on. I just don't feel like I should have to beg for an appointment. The truth is I'm highly sensitive and it brought up lots of old uncomfortable feelings. Whew, I needed to get that off my chest. The worst part was that I could have had an appointment last Thursday (and I really needed it then) but I had to be in a continuing education seminar for work so I can keep my license and once again work must come first. I'm writing all of this and there is the inner (or maybe outer) critic saying I'm being spoiled or childish blah, blah, blah.  :blahblahblah:
Maybe I'm the one with a personality disorder? I just don't know but it will be really nice to get a professional, objective opinion and maybe some testing. All my life it has been about what is wrong with me because that's what I learned as a child so I do it to myself to this very day but at least now I'm aware I'm doing it! That seems like a little progress.  :cheer:

you're not acting spoiled or being childish at all!  i'm glad you have a place to vent and get this crapola out of you.  i didn't see any blahblahblah about what you said, either.  your points, concerns, and feelings are all valid.  and valuable to your well-being.

you've been traumatized.  and there's nothing wrong with you about that.  it was something that was done to you, and you did what you needed to do to survive and retain your sanity.  as far as i'm concerned, you've done a great job getting this far in your life, and still hanging in there.  there are a lot of people who haven't made it this far.  so, kudos to you, blossoming.

you're not crazy, it's not you.  getting all those messages to the contrary can make you believe you're crazy, no good, worthless, or that something's wrong with you.  those are false messages, untruths that you were told to further someone else's agenda.  really crazy people never question their sanity. 

becoming aware of what you're doing to yourself is a big first step.  it gives you a foundation to explore and eventually eradicate.  i hope you're able to make that call and make even more progress on the way to healing.    with you all the way.

Sanmagic7, I'm so touched by your kind words. It's wonderful to feel validated.
Thank you  :hug:

you're so welcome, blossoming.  honestly, as i wrote those words, they helped me as well.  they helped me make the knowledge of others' agendas become more concrete for myself in my life.  so, thank you for sharing.  it gave me the opportunity to gaze more clearly at another personal reality.  we're fighting this together.

Quote from: sanmagic7 on October 12, 2016, 10:53:07 PM
you're so welcome, blossoming.  honestly, as i wrote those words, they helped me as well.  they helped me make the knowledge of others' agendas become more concrete for myself in my life.  so, thank you for sharing.  it gave me the opportunity to gaze more clearly at another personal reality.  we're fighting this together.

So true. It's amazing how writing things out brings clarity. I'm glad it helped you as well.

More ramblings due to lots of new understanding lately...One realization I've had recently is how I'm invalidated nearly every day by people in my family and in particular my husband. Now that I recognize this I know I'm going to have to deal with it the next time it happens. It's strange because I always thought of him as difficult but I didn't have the insight to understand it. It's so strange how the patterns all go back to childhood. My husband was physically and emotionally abused whereas I've mostly considered my childhood as one filled with neglect. I suspect some other abuse but I have repressed a lot. I think my husband and I are kindred spirits in a way and have each tried our best but now that I have learned about the impacts both our childhoods have had and understand things better I think it's time for some changes. I do hope I will have a willing partner in him through this but if not I'm starting to feel strong enough in myself that I will be fine on my own.

i hope you do, too.  my hub has been willing to look at his own stuff, and we've grown closer because of it.  he's opened up about his feelings lately like he never did before, and now it's like we are able to mutually support each other, a good feeling.  i truly wish that for you and your partner.  best to you.

That's fantastic about your husband sanmagic7!
Thursday I emailed my T about the no show for our appointment and she replied back promptly and was very apologetic. I decided to email her because I kept worrying about the situation and that wasn't doing anything positive for my mental state! I'm not going to reschedule with her but at least I know nothing bad happened.
Friday I started feeling much better in general and out of crisis mode for the first time in awhile. I still plan on getting into therapy soon because the issues are not magically resolved just because I'm feeling better right now.
Reminding myself about the three C's has been helping.

yay! and glad things are working out for you, blossoming.  one step at a time, right?  big hug!

Yes sanmagic7, your so right - one step at a time!  It feels good to know that I can count on myself to recognize my needs a do my best to make sure they are met!

I finally have an appointment with a T through my work's employee assistance program scheduled for November 2. They provide 3 sessions for free. I'm pretty frustrated that it's been so hard to get counseling but I'm grateful to finally have something scheduled.

I had 4 decent days from last Friday until two days ago and then I started having the flashbacks and bad dreams again. I also have these electric shock feelings that go through my body and I read something on Pete Walker's website about that being part of c-PTSD. It was a relief to learn about that because I had been having them for over two years and didn't understand why. In hind sight I realize now that the electrical sensations started during and stressful time in my marriage when I went to stay with my parents!

I hope everyone here is hanging in ok. One day I plan to have it together enough to contribute more. This reminds me a lot of the early stages of eating disorder recovery when I knew I made the right and loving choice but it was still so hard.

 :hug: to you!  Hang in there, we're with you.  :wave:

Quote from: Three Roses on October 20, 2016, 03:04:52 PM
:hug: to you!  Hang in there, we're with you.  :wave:

Thanks Three Roses.

So glad that you have an appointment with EAP therapist. And that you are feeling a little better.

I get a lot of comfort from reading posts, and posting myself here. My therapist thinks its good for me to communicate with others who have the same diagnosis.

Quote from: Joeybird on October 21, 2016, 12:53:15 AM
So glad that you have an appointment with EAP therapist. And that you are feeling a little better.

I get a lot of comfort from reading posts, and posting myself here. My therapist thinks its good for me to communicate with others who have the same diagnosis.

Thanks for the reply joeybird. It's great here. I'm definitely learning a lot and it's comforting to know I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Blossoming, in a way, we have similar stories. Both of us survived neglect, both of our husbands survived abuse. I'm hoping that your husband will see the positive changes in you and realize the benefits of therapy for himself. Mine, so far, does not.

I am happy that you are here and have begun posting. I am grateful for the opportunity to watch you learn and grow. I think, with your determination even in the face of a fawn/freeze tendency, to stand up for yourself, that you will get to the healthier place you seek. :hug:

That was so nice to read Wife#2. I'm actually a second wife myself if I'm guessing right and that is what your username means?
Our marriage has improved in many ways (from nearly ending) over the last couple years since I started coming back to reality. I guess I've been in recovery of sorts because by going through eating disorder recovery I had to start facing a lot of things I had buried long ago. I'm not sure if my husband will ever want to work on his own issues but I can't let that stop me from what I need to do. All I can do is just be a good example I suppose. Thanks for the lovely reply.

Blossoming, yes, you are right - I am also a second wife. A custodial step-mom as well.

I agree that you can't wait for him to join you as you recover. Yes, hopefully, you will set a good example and he will like the positive changes he sees in you, perhaps enough to begin his own recovery in earnest. Thank you for allowing us to be watchers to your process. We will certainly be here to support and encourage you along your journey.

Thanks Wife#2. I'm so grateful to have found this forum!  :hug:

*TW for talk about martial issues*

Last night I woke myself up crying while having a nightmare but I can't remember the details and I fell right back to sleep. I noticed I was sweating too. I'm doing ok today despite that. Nights have been hard for me for a long time. Back in May I started on an antidepressant (Remeron) that I take before bed and it helps with sleep. I'm not trying to blame my husband but I basically started on that because after discovering him using porn in the middle of the night one time I would become hypervigilant every night thinking he couldn't wait for me to fall asleep so he could get his pornography fix.

I put myself through all kinds of mental/emotional torture over that but the three C's have come in handy coping with it lately. Also I'm feeling more strong in myself and if that is what he really wants and needs there's nothing I can do to change it. I won't live that way forever though because that's just not what I want for my life or in a marriage. Also admittedly I don't know how much is me being suspicious, hypervigilant and expecting rejection. I'm willing to consider that I might not be seeing the situation clearly. He has gotten sloppy with his porn use a couple times to the point where I found out without even trying though. What a dilemma to be in right now.

He is going out of town on business for a couple days this week so maybe I will see if I sleep better without worrying about him. I was going to go with him but the day after I booked my flight my dog developed a huge tumor on her belly. She is having it surgically removed tomorrow so I decided I should stay home with her rather than leave her recovering at the kennel.

Fortunately my counseling is only 8 days away!   :cheer:

That is a serious challenge, Blossoming. I am also glad that your appointment is getting closer and closer. Hopefully, some actual quality sleep, or at least rest, will help with your perspective and with your determination to do what is best for YOU long-term.

Peace to you, friend.

You're right Wife#2, I do have to figure out what is best for me eventually.

I actually can't believe I wrote that out yesterday.  It has been weighing heavily on me for quite some time. It's probably not complicated but it sure feels complicated. I guess I feel a lot of shame or embarrassment about it for some reason even though logically I know it's not about me.
I've realized recently that I really don't have any safe relationships in my life. That's hard to admit to as well but there you have it. Hopefully through therapy (if I can figure out how to afford long-term therapy) I can start to form some. I do feel safe within myself though and that hasn't always been the case so it's a start.

I'm not trying to blame my husband ??

because youre used to blaming yourself !!  :pissed: :blahblahblah: internal critic?

Youre right to be upset

Quote from: Hazy111 on October 25, 2016, 07:26:05 PM
I'm not trying to blame my husband ??

because youre used to blaming yourself !!  :pissed: :blahblahblah: internal critic?

Youre right to be upset

Whoa, Hazy111 you're so right. I am blaming myself even when I think I'm not! And if I'm totally honest with myself I am actually very mad and hurt and I'm pretty sure I have every right to feel that way!
I think the floodgates are opening....

i was married to 2 sex addicts.  hub #2 was actually diagnosed, and was sent to SA meetings.  he would stay up until i went to bed in order to 'get it on' with his porn ladies.  i call it a form of cheating.  i once read about misogynists, how there are basically 2 kinds - physical (hub #1 - he cheated on me with other, real women) and intellectual (hub #2 - he cheated on me with video women).  either way, they would rather have sex with someone else than with their wife.

it's disheartening to be a willing wife and know that her husband prefers to 'get it on' with someone else, no matter what form that takes.    it steals integrity, credibility, and trust from the relationship, and messes with the feelings of desirability, femininity, and the feeling of being part of a team for the wife/lover.  it sounds like in your case it's also causing major anxiety, watchfulness, and uneasiness.   my heart is with you on this one, blossoming.  these are my opinions, for what they're worth.

Thanks for sharing your story sanmagic7. I truly can not fathom living through that twice!!!  :hug:
I've got myself in a bit of a no win situation at the moment because I'm basically dependent on him financially and as much as I hate that it's the truth. I wish it were as easy as me just going out and finding a full time job but there really aren't any in my field that I'm capable of doing  right now. One of my goals has been to find something in a different field but as you can imagine changing careers in middle age comes with it's own set of challenges!
I think he is the intellectual type but I could be wrong. I know when my body changed in eating disorder recovery it definitely seemed to have an impact on our sex life. I no longer blame myself for that though because it's unrealistic to expect a person to look forever 18 and I refuse to be compared to pornography actresses younger than my daughter! I talked to him about my concerns before and his porn use seemed to stop or decrease for a while but in the true nature of an addict he keeps going back. I'm sure since you've experienced it yourself you know exactly what I mean. I refuse to let it destroy me but it certainly hurts. He has been gone on a business trip the last couple days and it's been so nice to not have to worry about what he is off doing and trying to hide or if he is going to be drunk! It may sound pessimistic but at this point I don't see him changing.

I'm hoping in my upcoming counseling I can figure out how to get regular therapy, if there are any programs for job training so I can get into a different line of work or even if I should consider disability. All I know at this point is that things need to change and I need to be able to take care of myself. If my husband wants to be part of that he is going to have to make some changes too!

good for you, blossoming!  i love your spirit. 

possible triggers here - sex stuff!

no, addicts won't change unless they hit bottom.  in fact, the addiction will get worse in some way, shape, or form.  hug #2, i found out, began lusting after our daughters, talking about them sexually, saying inappropriate sexual stuff in front of them.  the first time this happened, my oldest daughter was 6.  we were in couples therapy at the time, and, after i'd yelled at him for doing this, i brought it up with our therapist.  she pretty much brushed it away by saying 'that isn't appropriate'.  that was it.

so many years later, i know now that she should have explored that with him or had him referred to a sex therapist immediately!  (it turned out she's a narc and a misogynist as well, preferring men to women, and i'm sure that's why she just brushed it aside.  but, she's another cog in my c-ptsd wheel!)  and as it was, our family was one madness on top of another, and i didn't really get hold of all this until i was well out of the family, and was told some of the other things he's said to and about both our daughters.  i'm not in any way saying this might or will happen with your situation.  this is only my experience.

so, i don't believe you're being pessimistic as much as being realistic.  i'm glad you're having a break from that sneaking and hiding stuff - that is so awful!  and i'm glad you're not blaming yourself and body changes for his behavior.  with both my hubs, i was young and in good shape.  that physical stuff makes no difference (that therapist, at one point, was trying to make me feel responsible, telling me to buy some sexy lingerie, giving me a big lecture on what men like - i'd already had a drawer full!  but i didn't know any better then, and took her words to heart).   

good luck with getting financially independent.  that will make so much difference for you, i'm sure.  in the meantime, hang tough.  your time will come.

Thanks for giving more detail sanmagic7. The thought of someone lusting after children makes me want to vomit. I'm glad you got out of that marriage and away from such a horrible T. Fortunately my daughter is 26 and grown and gone so I don't have to worry about that.

My husband got home from his trip late Saturday night so it's been back to all the weirdness with him being secretive. I'm trying my best just to take care of myself and not worry about his issues. Often though when I walk in the room he hides his phone and starts acting nervous or guilty so that's a regular occurrences that is triggering. He was up to something fishy tonight and now I can't sleep because my heart is pounding so hard.

The good news is I had my first counseling session today. It was pretty much an intake interview but at least it's a start and I have another appointment next week.

I did have a big insight in therapy today when I realized my mom always treated me like there was something wrong with me and even at times would say it outright. I've always known that deep down but I think voicing it helped me solidify it in my mind and begin to see how it has impacted my entire life. I've spent my whole life either trying to fix myself (physically) or denial just trying to escape my wrongness. There was never anything wrong other than the issues that arise from being raised to believe I was flawed or not good enough. This is a huge step because maybe I can now begin to challenge those false ingrained beliefs.

My dad did much the same thing, belittling me and calling it humor; putting me down and making me feel like there was something inherently wrong with me. Who does that to a child?! Much less, their own flesh and blood.

You deserved a mother who was kind and thoughtful, and helped you realize your potential and see your worth.

It means a lot to be heard and know that I'm not the only one Three Roses.

Sorry you lived through that too. I hope there is a way to change those false beliefs instilled in us in childhood. I know intellectually it's not true but now I want to learn how we can change this false narrative that impacts our lives.
ETA: I'm not asking anyone for an answer just wondering out loud.

out with the bad, in with the good!  the more reality of who we really are helps push out the falsehoods that we were taught.  one step at a time, one realization at a time. 

sorry you're going thru that creepy stuff w/ your husband.  i really am.  and, part of what has been so horrible about the lusting stuff with mine, is that he's done it after they're grown as well.  he has no boundaries when it comes to women and sex.  what makes my skin crawl is the thought of my daughters (35 and 40) getting a hug from him and what might be going thru his mind.  my oldest has a sick narc relationship with him, but i'm quite sure it's not sexual on her side.  my younger just moved across country, but i hate the thought of her even talking to him.  i've told her about it, she's talked to him about it and has some pretty good boundaries out with him now, so i'm glad of that.  it's something i work hard at pushing aside.  i've done what i can, but it still grosses me out.

best to you in dealing with your hub.  i completely relate. 

I can't imagine how it must be to know your daughter's own father is like that towards his own flesh and blood sanmagic7.
I *don't think* my husband was that way toward my daughter (not by him) or his own daughter (not by me) but you never know what might surface. I'm going to hold out hope that nothing like that has happened until or if I learn otherwise. I suppose it's possible to be into pornography and/or a sex addict but not be a pedophile/ attracted to children. I'm pretty sensitive and out spoken towards men being inappropriate around children so I sincerely hope I would have noticed anything if it was happening.
I'm just recently in the last couple years remembering my own father and uncle being inappropriate with me as a child so it makes sense now why I was always so hypervigilant with how my daughter and step daughter were treated by males. Ironically it ended up being someone I would have never expected (another female) that molested my daughter when she was nine.

Yesterday ended up being eventful. I told my husband how I felt about the phone situation and he vehemently denied anything was or has been going on. When I brought up porn he said I couldn't be further from the truth. He put most of (ok all) of the blame back on me for the distance in our relationship and even pulled the old switch back maneuver on me. You know the "Things were fine before. I don't understand why you had to change blah, blah, blah." Although the impetus for my embarking on recovery was his constant complaints about my diet and how miserable I was! Basically he misses the compliant, submissive eating disordered wife who wasn't a fully alive person with wants and needs. He said he just couldn't understand. Then it dawned on me that he really can't understand because he still has his various coping mechanisms to help keep him numb and from facing reality.

We went for a long walk and talked and I felt good for standing up for myself and didn't take any flack about anything including my necessary weight gain. When we got home he was crying and said he feels the same way I do and was describing an emotional flashback. I told him it was an EF and hugged him. We had a nice evening together hanging out with no phone and just together time.
Today he texted me at work saying he got home early and was taking a nap. I got home an hour later and he wasn't even here! It turns out that he went somewhere with his brother and was supposedly about to call me. I don't want to be some overbearing person but it's disturbing to come home expecting to see someone and they aren't even home. It's not the first time either. I think it's just common courtesy.
I guess the moral of my long rant is that just when I start to have a glimmer of hope that things might get better it gets dashed. I end up just looking like the mad, demanding wife and I'm just getting tired of it honestly.

Through all of this I'm starting to get stronger and see things more clearly. I'm not blaming myself anymore. I'm ok and I think anyone in my situation would be a bit traumatized.

Basically he misses the compliant, submissive eating disordered wife who wasn't a fully alive person with wants and needs. He said he just couldn't understand. Then it dawned on me that he really can't understand because he still has his various coping mechanisms to help keep him numb and from facing reality.


Yep , it sounds like youre in a codependent relationship. If one party like you starts to change/grow then the other gets threatened and wants to push you back into that box through blame/shame/guilt. Its so common i think its the norm. Mine. my parents , my sisters, so many friends , i can see the dominant/submissive.

I remember reading a self help book years ago written by Dorothy Rowe, psychologist.  Husbands used to bring their depressed wives to see her and say they want their happy wife back. So she treats the wife and wife decides she has to leave her husband if she wants to be happy. The husband finds out and she stops coming in for treatment.

:hug:

that is so often the case, turning it back on you, blaming you.  i'm so glad to hear you're getting stronger and seeing with more clarity.  that's wonderful!  keep standing your ground - it's your ground to stand on, and as you continue to feel more empowered, you will continue to make the changes that are best for you.  yay!

Thanks Hazy111 and Sanmagic7.  :hug:

Even though it's hard it still feels good and right to be sticking to what I know to be true and not settling for being treated poorly. It's taken years to get to this place and I know I still have a long way to go but I finally feel capable and like everything is going to work out ok- I have hope. I feel like I'm becoming someone I can count on.

yay!  you go!!!

I've decided after a pretty bad day yesterday of feeling really anxious and having a disappointing T session that I'm just going to get down to the basics and try to treat myself nicely. I have to stop beating myself up mentally and just be kind and loving to myself for once starting now. I've let the way I was treated as a child become the template for how I treat myself and I'm the only one that can stop that cycle.
Yesterday by evening meal time I had only managed 500 calories which is far too low and it scared me how quickly I can fall back into not taking care of my basic needs. I'm 47 today and no matter what has happened in the past I have to do a job at better taking care of and loving myself every single day.

QuoteI have to stop beating myself up mentally and just be kind and loving to myself for once starting now. I've let the way I was treated as a child become the template for how I treat myself and I'm the only one that can stop that cycle.

I love this! When we treat ourselves with kindness & respect, we attract the same type of treatment from others - and we can more easily spot when we are not being treated well.   

:applause:

self-love is just the best, and i'm so glad for you that you've decided to head in that direction.  with you all the way.

Happy birthday for yesterday :phoot: :cake:

What better present to yourself than realising that you need to be kind and caring to you!  Self-compassion isn't a 'nice to have' it is the essential foundation of a good, healthy life, and for giving of yourself to others in a way that doesn't ultimately destroy you.

Wishing you many happy returns in peace and joy.

 :yeahthat: Happy Belated Birthday! I know that can sound harsh when you've been struggling, but you've made some very healthy realizations. Yes, getting them into action is a challenge. You are capable and worthy of that action. You deserve the kindness others show to you and you deserve joy and peace and health.  :hug:

Thank so much for the kind words, support and birthday wishes Three Roses, sanmagic7, radical and Wife#2!
I'm going to try practicing being good to myself by having a nice relaxing three day weekend!

yay!  sorry i missed your birthday.  hope it was good.  sounds like you're starting on the right path.  keep taking care of you.

Well this is kind of exciting so I figured I'd share it here. I applied for a full-time job in a different field with excellent benefits! It's less money per hour but I'd be working twice the hours so my pay would still be more plus I'd be out of a field where I'm very burned out. I took my first test today and passed and I take another one Tuesday! I'm hoping this works out for me as it would be a huge burden off my shoulders due to the benefits and getting out of the medical field!
I'm so proud of myself for trying for a new job!

 :cheer: That's awesome!

Quote from: Three Roses on November 12, 2016, 01:02:28 AM
:cheer: That's awesome!

Thanks Three Roses! It's a little scary but it feels like good self care to try for a new job.

I subscribed to an email series on narc mothers and what I received today really resonated with me so I thought I'd share it here.

When you have a narcissistic mother, you are not taught how to care for the self.  Instead, you are taught by experience with your mother that if you don’t guess what someone wants, when and how they want it, you will suffer.   

This is a twofold challenge because first, you don’t get taught how to self care; and second, you may not have the energy to notice when you need self care because so much energy must be focused on the maternal narcissist that you may get only what little sense of security you could carve out.

Many of the people I coach are not aware how much they neglect themselves, how much that costs them, or what to do when they notice.   

An ivy league dentist recently explained to me that he never learned to notice when he was hungry and to this day he still forgets to eat until he feels faint.  Here’s the challenging part of this conundrum, he actually is echoing the attitude of his narcissistic mother instead of his own truth, which always costs us energy.

The reality is that although he doesn’t, as an adult, notice his hunger, it isn’t that he didn’t learn to notice it. It is that his environment was so less than nurturing that he was, instead, taught to ignore his biological drive to eat.   

Who teaches us to ignore these things?  We only learn to ignore basic self care needs when the caregivers in our environment chronically neglected those essential building blocks.

Eating is only one form of self care, but is a helpful one to discuss because it is universal.  When we ignore a basic need and no longer are in the environment that demanded such neglect of the self, we are left vulnerable to anxiety and other negative feelings as well as health problems.   

Imagine, too, if eating is possible to cut out of your daily needs, what else may we have ignored in order to survive a narcissistic family system?

Look at the basics of self care below and rank where you are from 1 to 3. 1: not healthy; 2: less than healthy/inconsistent; 3: healthy/consistent.

Food
Finances
Shelter
Clothing
Social Support/Relationships
Exercise
Health Needs: Such as regular dental/eye/medical exams

Congratulate yourself for any 3 scores.

Notice the ones you ranked 1 or 2 and make an extra effort to move yourself higher up the scale.  These basic areas of self care are a great place to gain more well being in your life.  Consider getting someone you trust to have a daily or weekly checkin for these areas and offering them the same support.
 
As a reader recently commented on my blog, support can be extremely helpful in recovery:

"I HIGHLY recommend trying to find a therapy or support group of children of NMs.  It's been incredibly validating and helpful to know that our stories, while each individual, carry a common thread that can make us feel very alone.   

"Only other people who are the product of NMs can truly understand how damaging and insidious our upbringing has been, because those who have had healthy mothering find it inconceivable that a mother could be anything other than good.  Sadly, we know otherwise."

I'm going for my last T session covered by my EAP program at work in about an hour. I have actually felt better this past week after deciding to treat myself better.
I applied for a new job and all was going well with that until yesterday. I had to sit for a second exam at a testing facility and when I was checking in they informed me my ID (drivers license) was expired so I couldn't take the test. Yes, it expired on my birthday and I didn't even realize it. The good news is that I was only down in the dumps for about six hours and I rebounded pretty quickly. I just tried to be realistic instead of beating myself up over it.
Another thing that happened that doesn't really seem to be bothering me and I think it probably should is that my mom wouldn't talk to me on the phone on my birthday. My dad said she is really depressed. The last few times she has been on the phone with me or my daughter she just starts crying and gets off the phone really quick. I think I would understand if that upset someone else but for some reason I'm numb to it. I'm wondering if it's a protective mechanism.

Lastly there has been a situation with one of my coworkers that I'm not handling well. There is this lady my age that seems very nice that I was starting to sort of become friends with but then she started telling me all about her financial problems. She is from a different country and culture than me so maybe what she is doing is normal where she is from but she keeps wanting me to donate money for her mother's medical bills. First she was going to have an actual fundraiser but then it became just doing raffles at work and "reminding me to give a donation". Literally she is calling my phone as I type this out. It's just weird and uncomfortable. I know I should say something but she is about to move out of state and today is her last day at work and I just want to forget I ever met her. I think I have poor judgment about people IRL and attract the wrong types. Every friend I've made as an adult basically makes sexual advances toward me. At least this lady didn't do that but she really couldn't at work.

I had my last T session and I swear she was falling asleep in the chair while I was talking!
I finally answered the phone when the lady from work kept calling wanting a donation and told her NO.
Other than that there is nothing new. I'm continuing to treat myself well and it seems like it's helping.

i'm glad you were able to say no to that lady.  i know that here in mex., there is a lot of that donation stuff going on, often about medical bills.  it's the culture of poverty.  if i gave to everyone here who asked me for money, i'd have none left, so i don't.  no guilt, just that i'm sorry for your problems, but i can't help you all.

and, sounds pretty disrespectful of your therapist!   i hope you find another, one who is more helpful and caring.  unless she apologized because she's sick or something, that's just plain rude.  you didn't deserve that.  sorry you had to go through that.  but it does sound like you're getting stronger, and i'm glad of that.  keep up the good work of taking care of yourself, blossoming.  i think you're doing really well.

Thanks sanmagic7. I think I'm getting stronger too. I don't think the T even realised she was dosing off. Of course the medical worker side of me was wondering if she had narcolepsy or was over-sedated on meds or something!!!
Some new insights are coming to light. I'm starting to see some things more clearly than ever and getting better at recognizing my own needs.
My husband just doesn't seem have time for our relationship right now and if I'm perfectly honest with myself he mostly never has had time for us unless it involved him getting sex at his own convenience. Recently I spoke up and said I didn't want to have rushed sex before work in the morning. I wanted to be able to relax and spend some time together and try to enjoy. Since then he has been extra busy. Last night I sat around waiting for him for a couple hours. We were supposed to go to a movie but I just ended up eating a bowl of cereal alone for dinner and was ready for bed by the time he came home. He was at his dad's farm doing some work around there but the point is he could have kept our plans and showed up on time but once again he didn't. I mentioned something this morning but really it's been 15 years of this same behavior. Actions speak louder than words sometimes and I'm getting a very clear message that our relationship just isn't very important to him. I'm kind of sad to see that I've let myself be treated this way for so long but I'd rather get on with my life than keep sitting around waiting on him.

yeah, that's too bad about your hub, blossoming.  that kind of thing never feels good.  as painful as it may be, i am glad that you are seeing things more clearly and realizing the reality of what's going on around you.  i truly believe it's the only way we are able to grow.  sounds like you continue to move forward, which, hopefully, does feel good.  yay! for you.

Thanks sanmagic7.
I'm not sure where all the time has gone but it's been an eventful few weeks.

Last weekend my husband and I actually communicated very frankly with each other which was long overdue and it feels like we may have turned a corner in our relationship. Long story short is that we reached an agreement that we would both try to trust and love each other again and put the past behind us. So far so good but you all know how it is with cPTSD. I notice a tendency that I'm always anticipating the next crisis but I'm trying to just observe that pattern within myself and stay grounded in my current reality that there is nothing happening right now.

I took a test for a new job I'm trying to get and passed so I was pretty excited about that!

I've also made some headway on some health issues that I think were making it harder to cope with my mental stuff. I'm a firm believer that you can't totally separate the body and mind and that one effects the other so it's nice to be feeling better.

It was interesting to notice my husband's tendency to continue to try to turn the conversation toward me, my faults, things I had done (years ago now) during our heart to heart talk last weekend. Because of the things I've learned I stood up for myself and admitted I had made mistakes and wasn't perfect but instead of keeping quiet (freezing or fawning) I kept the dialogue going until I felt we had come to a reasonable resolution. It seems like progress to me. I think I'm doing better despite not having a T to work with atm.

yay for you, blossoming.  i've noticed that tendency, too, of some people who keep straying off topic into what you did in the past.  i think that's a diversionary tactic, personally.  you did great to keep coming back to the topic at hand and find some resolution!   hopefully, things will change, the corner is turned, and the relationship will move forward in a positive direction. 

and applause applause on your job test - fingers crossed that you get it.  i'm excited right along with you on that.  let's hope that keeps moving forward as well. 

keep taking care of you.  your new-found strength is showing all over the place.  yay!  big hug, blossoming.

Oh sanmagic7, thanks for all the support.  :hug:

I hope one day things settle down for me and I can do the same for others.

I'm really not sure where to begin. I'm just going to write all of this out to hopefully help me let it all sink in more.

Yesterday I discovered that my husband has been in a relationship with someone else IRL and I know who it is- name, age, DOB, phone number and her most likely address. They have had something going for about six months now. I've looked back through all the old phone records.

It looks like after we had our long talk about 9 days ago she started texting him much more. She has sent him 13 texts since midnight alone. I counted over 30 from yesterday. He isn't texting her back but he did call her yesterday. He could also be calling her from a landline at work or even meeting up with her for all I know!

I haven't said anything yet. I want to be in a really good place and be prepared when I bring it up. Part of me is starting to think of an exit strategy. Tomorrow we are going to go buy me a used car. I got an email from the job I took the test for last week so if I can get a full-time job and have a car I'll be in a better position to leave. I don't want it to be like a fleeing situation.

I really don't think the magnitude of it all has truly hit me yet. I've been pretty calm and composed. I haven't really been able to eat enough though. I'm probably in shock but deep down I'm not surprised.

i don't doubt you're in shock - that sort of thing would blindside me!  wow!

so far, it sounds like you're staying strong, thinking clearly, and doing what needs to be done.  good luck with the job - yeah, that would help a lot.  i'm really sorry this happened to you, tho.  it sucks!

i hope you can keep hanging tough till you get to where you need to be.  then, if you need to fall apart, go for it.  for now, it sounds like you're taking care of business in a very level-headed manner.  sometimes we have to put the 'crash' on hold.  do be good to yourself, tho, including eating.  you need that fuel to continue with your clear thinking and for the energy needed to go through this.  do the best you can.  i'm rooting for you, blossoming.

Thanks sanmagic7, I can't tell you how much your encouraging words mean to me.

I think the shock is wearing off. I'm feeling more emotional now and physically ill. I might reach out to my old ED therapist (the one who forgot about our appointment!) since it didn't work out with the EAP T.
When I woke up this morning and walked into the kitchen my husband just looked at me with disgust. He doesn't know yet that I know. I now understand the reason for his behaviour that started in the spring/summer.

that's awful.  hang tough, sweetie.  you're in a rotten position right now, but you're holding all the cards.  i'm glad you have someone to possibly turn to.  do what you need to do - the rest will sort itself out.  right by your side.

Quote from: Blossoming on December 11, 2016, 10:29:59 PM
It was interesting to notice my husband's tendency to continue to try to turn the conversation toward me, my faults, things I had done (years ago now) during our heart to heart talk last weekend. Because of the things I've learned I stood up for myself and admitted I had made mistakes and wasn't perfect but instead of keeping quiet (freezing or fawning) I kept the dialogue going until I felt we had come to a reasonable resolution. It seems like progress to me. I think I'm doing better despite not having a T to work with atm.

Blossoming, given all that happened yesterday, for which I am heartfelt saddened for you, I believe this drifting off topic was actually driven by an agenda. I would consider the possibility that these are the things he's keeping at the forefront of his mind to justify his behavior. I say this because, when I was seriously ready to leave my husband, I kept things in my mind as my reasons to leave him. I didn't let them go until I made the conscious decision to stay and work with him as a partner. Now, I'd have to read my old posts to remember ALL the reasons I was ready to go.

I'm so sorry that he greeted you this morning with such unpleasantness.

Thanks sanmagic7 and Wife#2.

I do think he is and has been holding the past against me for a longtime. I can actually understand how he can justify his affair in his own mind. He doesn't know that I know so it's hard to keep up the act. I don't want it to end on bad terms. I'm sure he has cPTSD too.

I might just write him a letter and then maybe or maybe not give it to him but I know it would help me get everything off my chest.

Sending good, positive thoughts your way this morning. :hug:

Even if you burn it later, writing that letter may be a very healthy thing today. In the meantime, get that car (don't let him back out on that) and follow up about the job. Then, do something absolutely wonderful for yourself. Whether it's write that letter, take a long soaking bath or look through the available rentals nearby, do something proactively nice for YOU, for BLOSSOM and nobody else. It'll help you get through whatever ugliness may be brewing.

Thanks Three Roses and Wife#2.
I'm just now starting to be able to cry but the floodgates haven't opened yet. I had a feeling he met her through work (we work for the same company) so I got on my email and typed her name and sure enough I found her in the directory. Before that I wasn't 100% sure I had the correct information to go with the phone number but I was right. I wrote him a letter but I probably won't give it to him but was therapeutic writing it.

writing that letter was another step toward taking back your life and your power.  glad you did it.  dang!  hang tough, sweetie.  keep moving forward, you've got some momentum.  we're all behind you here.  big hug!

Thanks again sanmagic7.

I bought a car yesterday! My own car in my name. I'm really excited.

I'm starting to feel better and yesterday I was finally able to eat enough again. I didn't get the old restriction high from going hungry like I did during my eating disorder so I think that's a good sign that my remission is solid. There's still a lot to be grateful for and I know I'm handling this better than I would have even just one year ago.

 :cheer:

In your corner, Blossoming

that's great, blossoming, all of it.  they're all steps you're taking to giving yourself your own life.  i got my first car at 20, and i never looked back.  it was a sign of independence to me.   congrats to you!  here's hoping you can keep moving forward as best you are able.  cheers!

Thanks sanmagic7 and Three Roses.

I talked to him. It turned out to be someone different than I thought but sort of worse because it is someone we have both worked with for years and they currently still work together. It's been an intense several days.
He says he wants to stay together and try to work things out but I can tell he has a lot of deep resentment towards me because of the past. I admit I'm not the best at relationships and have made some huge mistakes but even he says there isn't anything I've done in the last two years. I just don't know if this marriage can be salvaged if he is going to continue to be unable to forgive me. It's not lost on me either that he is focusing on me and my faults, flaws and mistakes again when he is the one who just had an affair. I definitely don't want to stay in a relationship where my husband has so many ill feelings towards me and I can never truly regain his love and trust. What a mess.

 :hug: Sorry you are going thru this. I'm here for you.

Thanks Three Roses, that means a lot.

I just can't stand to not deal with issues as they arise so I told him how I felt about him holding the past against me for so long. I don't think it's good to stay in a relationship where a person feels that degree of resentment towards their partner.  I also think he is using his feelings about things that happened in the past to justify his affair. I asked him if he really wants to work on our relationship or if he thinks the past is just too much to overcome and he says he loves me and wants to try to make it work. I told him I felt it seemed unlikely he could ever forgive me since I've been trying hard for the last couple years to prove myself and he has just become more and more distant. Even if he wants to make it work I'm not sure if that's what I want because I'm tired of living this way. I'm just writing this all out because it's helping me cope and gain some clarity.

I think I'm starting to phase out of shock finally and more into hurt and anger with a tinge of denial. I haven't really let go and cried fully yet. I can't for some reason. I wonder if I'm disassociating at times. The good news is that I've been eating decently and sleeping ok with the help of an over the counter sleep remedy.

I think I've been thinking fairly realistically. Since he says he wants to stay together I broached the subject of marriage counseling and got an immediate and passionate "No". I told him that gave me little hope because he should be willing to do whatever it takes at this point to save our marriage. He then said he would think about it.

One thing I'm proud of is that I'm speaking up and not holding anything back.

I also bought a sketch book and some pencils today because drawing is something I used to enjoy doing that I gave up a long time ago to focus on my family. It's something I can do for myself. I'm just focusing on self care as much as possible right now.

I've been reading a lot about infidelity and processing things the best I can. Most days I eat ok but I do have days that I fall short. Last night sleep was poor despite taking medicine to help with sleep. I've done some things to help myself like getting rid of a sun dress I wore to a pool party at his mistresses house this summer. Two days ago I went to their job unannounced. I'm not sure why except I figured I could probably tell by his reaction to me being there if he was being sincere about wanting to work things out. I didn't see her and maybe it was a misguided attempt to mark my territory but he was not happy to see me at all. That was a huge red flag and I told him as much. Part of me wonders what the heck I'm doing and the other part wants to try to salvage the relationship.

I think I'm finally crashing after trying to keep it together over the holidays. I've been having 1-3 alcoholic drinks most days as well which I need to stop. I didn't even make it to work today because I'm just plain exhausted.

Hugs to you, Blossoming, during this difficult time. Know what you know, feel what you feel, see what you see. You are worthy of love and respect, and worth taking care of yourself. :hug:

Thanks Three Roses. The tears are finally starting to flow. I'm so grateful to have this space to journal and to help me not feel so alone.

Someone recommended a site called Marriage Builders to me yesterday and I forwarded a link to my husband and asked him to read it. It seems very helpful so I think if he reads it that would be a good first step towards showing me he is sincere and willing to recommit to our relationship.
He also called the other woman yesterday and talked to her for 15 minutes and didn't tell me about it. Huge red flag! When I asked him about it he said it was about work and he was going to tell me today. I think if he really wants to save our marriage he needs to cut all ties with her and get a new job. We talked about it a lot in the middle of the night and I asked him to think about it. I'm not going to stay around forever while they are still in contact even if it's supposedly just work because I think it would be a distraction, temptation and interfere with us being able to move on.
I'm pretty proud of myself for staying focused and asserting my needs in the face of so much hurt and emotion.

i'm proud of you, too, blossoming.  that's a lot of strength you're showing.  warrior woman courage.  it doesn't get any better.

Thanks sanmagic7. I still don't know how things will turn out but I'm proud of myself for mostly keeping it together and not compromising my needs. I'm reading a good book called Surviving an Affair. It's a tough situation to say the least but in some ways it's good to finally be discussing our relationship issues. I remember thinking it seemed like he took me back when I left him in 2014 just to punish me and he basically admitted as much last night so at least I know I've been corrected in my instincts about our relationship and not delusional or paranoid.

Someone told me my husband is gaslighting me about the affair. There are several red flags that he doesn't want to truly end it but just keep it secret from me. Like he wants to have his cake and eat it too so to speak. In the Marriage Builders program they encourage the betrayed spouse to expose the affair to as many people as possible and even to the employer if it is a work related affair. The problem is that my only evidence is his admission (with no details) and apology and the cell phone records which doesn't provide details either so not the most solid evidence. I'm thinking about asking him for a separation because this is just too emotionally taxing as long as he chooses to stay at his job where they work together.
Some things that make me think he doesn't want to end it and that he is gaslighting me are:
He called and talked to her for 15 minutes last week and he didn't tell me.
She texted him on the new year but he did tell me about that although oddly enough it hasn't shown on the phone records yet.
After they stopped with the excessive phone calls and texts his data usage skyrocketed as if they were communicating via snap chat or something. When I mentioned this to him the data use immediately went back to normal.
I've told him I need him to leave his job if he really wants the marriage to work but so far he won't. In all fairness I only told him this a couple days ago but still...
Sorry if I'm repeating myself. I'm just trying to work this all out. I am going to talk to my old T and get tested for STD's because I have to take care of myself.

blossoming, you sound like you're doing a very good job of sorting through the deceits, innuendoes, and outright lies that are going on around you.  talk about being an emotional hostage!  first it's this, then it's that, then another thing comes to light, but the main thing, the separation of your husband from this woman is just somehow not getting done.   i also believe that if your intuition was right once about what was going on, it's going to be spot on again and again.

of course this is emotionally taxing and abusive as well.  he's playing so many games is what it sounds like to me.  still, there are no standard rules except the ones he decides on and changes at will.  your rule, that he leave his job in order to be away from this woman, is being ignored.  big red flag for me.

you're number one, here, your health and well-being, your person, your essence.  you have a right to protect them at any and all costs.  i hope you keep taking care of you, and i know you'll do what's best for you.  standing right beside you.

It was so nice to read your honest and insightful words sanmagic7. I truly appreciate your help! Maybe I'm starting to come out of the fog more.  Things have been really intense. I've got a PI following him today while I'm at a job interview so I can hopefully get the evidence I need that the affair is still ongoing. It's been stressful getting everything arranged but I feel it is important to completely expose his lies for my own peace of mind.

I'm about to leave for my job interview (Yay! I finally got an interview for the job I've been trying to get for two months.) Interviews are nerve wracking for everyone I know but knowing that the PI might be getting evidence while I'm in the interview makes today especially stressful. Sometimes I wonder how much more I can take. I have to drive downtown which is stressful, be in an interview for three hours and then try to find out the results of the investigation as soon as I'm done. Oh and then come home to my wayward husband. I'm sure people have endured worse and I probably have too but it still feels extremely hard right now. :fallingbricks:

HUGS to you for all the stress! :: Fingers crossed for GREAT interview results AND PI results you can use ::

Not as bad stress is like only a little pregnant. Yeah, no such thing! And, driving in town, having to hire a PI, having to interview (3 hours? That's marathon just by itself!), that's a lot of stress for one day. Maybe having to see proof of what you know but that saddens you - well, who looks FORWARD to that kind of thing?

::: Sending hugs, prayers, relaxing thoughts, successful karma your way :::

blossoming, that's a TON of stress.  if someone you knew was having all that to deal with in one day, i believe you'd see it that way for her.  well, it's the same for you.  stay safe while driving, and know that whatever happens, you'll be ok.  you are showing so much courage and strength - maybe more than you ever realized you have.  best of luck with everything.  we're here both for you and with you. 

Oh what a relief to come here and have some sympathy and understanding Wife2 @and sanmagic7.

The interview went well despite being stressful. I got passed on to the next phase and when my physical and further background checks are done (in 4-6 weeks) I should be able to start working.

When I got out of the interview early at 3:30 this afternoon the PI said my husband left work early (15 minutes after my interview started) and never returned to work!!! I couldn't get the GPS on his car because it has some aftermarket modifications so the PI lost track of him. The PI went to the mistresses house and neither one of them were there so I think they probably met at a hotel. Now I have to act like I don't suspect a thing and try to get more evidence this coming week. This is so hard. I've already lost ten pounds but I have to stay strong. One of the worst parts is that I've inadvertently driven him to be more careful and secretive. If I had known last month what I know now I wouldn't have let on that I'd discovered anything. I'm truly sickened by his lies but I have to hold it together a bit longer so I can get hard evidence. This is challenging to say the least. I'm hoping he will go out drinking with his friends this weekend so I can have time to search for the GPS port. Sometimes I wonder why I'm going to all this trouble but I committed to him and I'm going to see this through and make him own up to his behaviour if for no other reason than my own self esteem. What a mess.

congrats on a great interview, blossoming.

i hope you get what you need so that you can put the matter to rest about your husband.  it's awful to think of what you're going through.   best to you with all that.  hang tough - we're hangin' right beside you.

You're wonderful sanmagic7 and your post got me thinking about my needs and more specifically what I don't need.
I really find my husband's addictions (alcohol, drugs and sex) are simply becoming too much to bear. I have been living in a loveless and neglectful relationship for far too long. I'm going to try to get more evidence this week so he can't keep lying and gaslighting me but I'm 95% sure done with this marriage. It actually feels good and right to begin to close this chapter of my life.

well, blossoming, i say good for you!  figuring out our needs, as compared to our wants, is pretty important to my mind.  i've been thru the addictions nightmare with 2 husbands, and stayed too long both times.  (that doggone 'fixer' part of me wouldn't let me leave until too much damage was done).  i'd say you're getting to the end of your rope with it all, and i'm glad.  you deserve much better than 'loveless and neglectful'.   you go, girl!

Blossom, I think you've finally reached that place my father described as 'time for divorce'. My father hadn't intended to divorce my mother until I was 18 (I was the youngest). He accidentally met the love of his life while married to Mom, still. But, he stayed. Until.... He realized he didn't hate Mom. He wasn't even really mad at her anymore (she hadn't cheated, but she'd tried to make Dad miserable, and was succeeding). He just didn't care how she felt anymore. That was, he said, when he knew the marriage was completely dead - flat line - no resuscitation possible. That was time to leave.

Now, he cares about her as a fellow human being and as mother of his children. Beyond that, though, her PD ways make it too difficult to be even in the same room as her.

I hope for you there is that peaceful moment - that moment you when know that you know that you know that divorce is the best, most sane, most self- and child-protective thing you can do. When the hardships you don't know make more sense than the pain you do know. You certainly know pain  :hug: Isn't it time for a little peace?

Thanks for that Wife2. It's funny that just last night while talking with my husband I realized that I have developed enough self-esteem to want more for myself. I know I deserve better and I'm ready to move forward in life. Yeah, some parts are sad but it's time. Thanks for sharing the story about your father.

you go, girl!

 Thanks sanmagic7!  :hug:

I love you sanmagic7!

Seriously, I appreciate coming here and reading your encouraging words.

I'm starting to get worried. I've lost 15 pounds from stress and not eating. This isn't good. I plan on kicking my husband out of the house on Friday so hopefully I'll be able to get back on track. I just keep telling myself only two more days. My brother has agreed to be our intermediary so if my husband needs something I've drafted a letter that instructs him to tell my brother so I don't have to talk to him directly. I've contacted a lawyer and got a Post office box set up so he can't steal my mail. I'm dealing with the money/bank on Friday while he is with his mistress. I'm trying to hold it together to take care of all the practical details. Wish me luck.

Surrounding you with hugs and courage and love and hope and friendship!

love you right back, blossoming.  will be with you in spirit on fri.  it's gonna be a big day.  kudos to you for your courage and determination - warrior woman energy!!!  i hope it goes as smoothly as possible.  it sounds like you've done a good job of preparing in order to keep yourself safe.  that's number one.  (i think it's time to start eating again, tho.  you need that fuel to keep your mind clear and strong as you go through this.  it's important.)  big hug, my dear. 

Thanks for the moral support wife#2 and sanmagic7.

I'm afraid things might hit the fan tonight. I called to check up on him at work and he got mad and hung up the phone on me and now won't answer my calls or texts. I'm all set up to sleep in the spare bedroom and call for emergency help if he starts getting violent. He has never really gotten physical with me but he did with his first wife and I'm not taking any chances.

well, here we go!  i'm glad you're taking steps to stay safe.  from that hang-up, there's really no telling what might happen, but i always would rather err on the side of safety.  there's always the chance that he may not come home tonite, either.  be prepared for anything but keep remembering, this is not your fault, it's not on you.  you're doing what you need to do for your own health and well-being.  best to you - hope it goes as smoothly as possible.

Blossoming, are you ok? Praying lots and waiting, hoping you have a moment to check in.  :bighug:

i'm with wife2 here, hoping you're all right.  i'll join her in this as well      :bighug:

Thank you both! Yes, I'm fine. When he came home he said he was too upset to talk and I said "me too" so we just slept in different rooms. He left early for work this morning and when he called me he was crying. Maybe we will talk tonight. I dunno but I kinda like my new peaceful bedroom.

 :applause:

 :cheer:

He wants to talk tonight. He's really mad about me checking up on him. Oh well, I guess if he were trustworthy I wouldn't have felt the need to check up on him.
I'm real emotional but I suppose that's to be expected. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I will be better off without him but it's still hard after being with someone for 18 years. It's good though that I'm starting to think about life without him. He suggested I spend the weekend with my daughter to 'getaway'. Hmmm, that's not the least bit suspicious. That's the most hurtful part. His actions scream that he is being unfaithful and lying but he keeps denying it and gaslighting me. It's devastatingly hurtful but it will be over soon.

good luck with the talk tonight.  be careful and stay safe.

i'm glad it will be over soon.  good news.  you don't deserve this kind of treatment.  big hug, blossoming.

Thanks again for the encouragement sanmagic7.

I'm mostly writing this out to get it off my chest and so I don't forget as what happened is a perfect example beyond the infidelity of why I am getting out of this marriage. I would never expect anyone to stay with someone who treated them this poorly.

Husband came home from work and within 15 minutes of being home (he said he wanted to talk to me earlier) he got a call from his brother and made plans with him. He is now at a bar drinking with his brother while I'm sitting at home in my new bedroom. I'd normally be deeply hurt as I have been too many times to count in the last 18 years but sadly I'm used to being the least important thing in his life. In all fairness he did invite me to go but I said no. Like I'm really in the mood to sit at a bar with him and his brother right now. I did get the GPS tracker put in his car though so when he gets together with his mistress tomorrow I will have undeniable proof and he can no longer gaslight me. I can't even believe this is my life right now. It can only get better from here. I am proud of myself though.

Please excuse my excessive posts but I just have to get this off my chest.

My husband called me from the bar at 6:40 and said he was going to drop some material off at a job site with his brother and then he would be home to talk and have dinner. The job site is @15-20 minutes away. At 8:20 I sent him a text that I was going to go ahead and go eat which I did (yay me!  :cheer: ). He comes home at 9:00 and said we could talk after he drinks a few more beers with his brother. In a calm non provoking tone of voice I replied that it was too bad talking to me wasn't a priority. He said it is a priority and we could have had dinner together. I just don't have words to describe how self centered and ridiculous that is.
Now he thinks I'm just going to wait up so we can 'talk'. Would any rational person think it's okay to treat another person, let alone their spouse that way?

NO!  :pissed: :no:

(By the way, I don't think your posts have been excessive. :hug: )

 Thanks Three Roses.  :hug:

I've been reading some about divorcing on OOTF and that's been helpful. I found a useful checklist for when you leave. I think I'm starting to make peace with this and although I'm sure my emotions will be somewhat all over the place for awhile this feels right and I'm starting to have hope for the future which honestly I haven't had for quite some time.

no, it isn't right, and yay! for you for taking the steps you need for you.  i think you're doing great with this, blossoming.  hard work, messy work at times, but you're doing it, dammit!  that counts for so much.  very happy for you!  here's hoping everything goes as smoothly as possible.  big hug, my dear.

Hugs to you sanmagic7.

Yesterday H spent the day while I was out of town with the OW at my house. They may be there together right now for all I know. I can't put into words how sick I feel.

No one should have to go through something like this but at least I now have the undeniable evidence and that is very important for me so I can move forward. I think part of me wanted to believe his lies even though I knew better. It's just too bad he had to bring her into my home when he knew I'd be away.

Now I'm trying to decide if I want to stay out of town one more day or go home. Part of me thinks it would be better to just stay so I can half way get myself together emotionally. I also probably shouldn't let him know that I know until the bank is open Monday and I can get my part of money in our savings account. He dropped her off at her car 20 minutes ago and I'm not sure if I want to walk into my home where they have been together all night. I think I really should stay gone but I miss my dogs.

He dropped her off at her car at 7:45 this morning.

I have to remember there is a whole world of possibility open to me now that I no longer have to consider him in the equation. I'm going to just try to remain focused on my own self care.

It's liberating to know that all of his addictions will no longer be a constant part of my existence.

 :hug:

I'm sorry you're going thru this. So difficult.

I really do believe your life without him will be much healthier. You'll be able to focus on yourself and healing.

I'm standing with you.  :cheer:

Thanks ThreeRoses, I agree. I'm already starting to feel better. I'm going to go to the jewler and get my wedding rings cut off today (and maybe pawn them!). I also deleted all of his pictures. I'm ready to move on and it feels good if somewhat bitter sweet to be starting a new life without him. I think I needed to see the full scope of his deception so I would not be tempted in anyway to continue in the relationship. It's hard when you've been with another person that long but there is truly nothing left for me with him and it's good to face that fact and close this chapter of my life.

o, blossoming, you're doing it!  yay for you!  if it were my place, i'd be so proud of you.  you did everything you needed to do, kept following through, and are now reaping the, you're right, bittersweet rewards of all your hard work.  well done!

once you get all the every day stuff out of the way, be prepared for grieving.  like you said, he's been in your life for a long time, and that will be a big loss on one level, no matter how difficult it's been.  the grieving is important in order to fully and truly shut the door on all this.

and what a yuckhead for bringing her to your home!  how insulting and disrespectful!  i can't say what i'd really like to say cuz those words aren't allowed.  but, i hope you know what i mean.

so, a new chapter of your life is opening up.  i get why you wouldn't want to go into the house right after.  i'd probably burn those sheets as well.  ugh!  but you now have the freedom to do, say, be whatever and whoever you want.  it's a big freedom - go slowly, especially at first so you don't find yourself crashing.   this is a huge new space you're moving into and it can give you an overwhelming feeling.  as with anything else, small steps (altho i surely could understand a celebration party at some point!)

keep taking care of you.  you've done a great job so far.  really great.  you can feel good about yourself for that.  big hug!

Thanks sanmagic7.

Well I'm back home. I sent soon to be ex husband an email telling him it was time for us to separate. He called while I was driving and when he asked why I told him I knew he spent the last two Friday's with his lover behind my back and I no longer want to live that way. I told him I'd like to end this peacefully and like adults. So far so good.

It was a little hard being here but not as hard as I thought. H told me he was really impressed with how well I'm handling things and I thanked him and said I've been working hard on my own stuff for awhile and I do feel mentally/emotionally much stronger. Even though it's over for us maybe seeing my progress will inspire him to do some of his work and serve as an example for him that people can grow and change.
I'm excited for all the future holds and know things can only get better from here. Just knowing the truth is making things better already.

I left a voice activated recorder in my bedroom when I went out of town and got hours worth of disturbing and disgusting evidence. They have been meeting at her house and hotels just as I suspected. They were telling each other how much they loved and missed each other blah, blah, blah. They were high on cocaine Friday night.
I reached out to the other woman's husband today because I thought he deserved to know. He confronted his wife and she told him I was crazy and paranoid. I'm sure she is calling my stbx husband about this!
My goodness, that man is trying to destroy himself and everything around him. It's very sad. I don't even know him anymore.

blossoming, you strong and wonderful warrior woman!  kudos to you!

to tell you the truth, with lies and addictions, i doubt that you ever really knew him.  that's how that illness goes - it allows a person to mask himself so we never get to see the real person behind the mask.  i've been there, so i'm talking from personal experience.  one was a 7-yr. marriage, one was a 20-yr. marriage.  at times i could see glimpses, but rarely, if ever, a whole, complete person.  addictions just don't let reality in or out.

i'm glad for you that you've escaped the madness.  i don't know how you could listen to that yuck!  you're a braver woman than me!  how horrible for you.  now you have you to look after in all your shining glory, just the way you want - your own place, your own space, your own life.  there may be ups and downs - like i've said before, this is a big loss and betrayal, but i have every faith that you'll get through them all with the grace you've shown in this matter.

keep taking care of yourself, and go slow.  this is a biggie, and you deserve some peace within yourself.  i'm very happy for you that the not knowing is finally over.  big hug!

You're the best sanmagic7.

He's hoovering me back in but I'm at least out of the fog enough to see it I suppose.
So the Monday morning after I exposed the affair to the other woman's husband and told him about the audio recording he made a sudden 180. The night before he was literally going to go see her on her side of town and asked me if I would pick him up if there was any trouble! I said there was no way I'd be bailing him out of anything to do with his girlfriend. He ended up tagging along with me to go get some dinner and the whole time was saying rude stuff about how I taught him everything he knows about deception. I gave him a chance to come clean about the drugs but he lied some more.
So he called her to break up nine days ago and literally spent an hour on the phone with her. Seriously. Then I found out this weekend from the other woman's husband that back in November when my husband was on a business trip the girlfriend went and stayed with him at the hotel and she lied to her husband saying she had to go out of town for work. It was right around my birthday and he was 'too sick' when he got home to do anything with me. I asked him twice this weekend if he was with her on the business trip and he blatantly lied again. He finally admitted the truth two days ago. Tonight he made some dumb comment that I didn't really have evidence besides a parking ticket that they were together on that trip. I'm so at a loss right now. I do think it's safe to say I'm dealing with someone who is extremely ill. I know what I need to do and now I just have to muster the strength to kick him out and change the locks. What a mess. Wish me strength everyone. I'm sure I'm dealing with a pure narcissist at this point.

H and I mutually agreed last night that he will move out. He pulled it again where he said he would be home at 8p.m. and he did come home but was hanging out with his brother smoking pot and drinking until 9:30. I'm embarrassed to admit the number of chances I've given that man and he literally doesn't even try to change. Despite sometimes using the ' right words' his actions speak of total disregard for me and our marriage. I let him suck me back in after he slept with another person in our bed and he still continued to lie. Of course he says it's because he didn't want to hurt me further but the lies are just as hurtful (if not more so) than the infidelity.

i'm just glad you two came to a mutual agreement about it.  wishing you all the strength you need to do what you have to do.  hoovering is sinister stuff, and i'm glad for you that you were able to recognize it.

i stayed in too many relationships way past their healthy expiration dates.  we were programmed to ignore our boundaries, keep giving chances, and to hope against hope that something will change for the good.  with these kinds of people - the liars and the cheats - it never does.  it's a lesson to learn that we can hopefully put into effect the next time.  it took me quite a few 'next times' before i finally got it.  you're doing great!

best to you with all this, blossoming.  you are making so much progress, and it's been great to see.  love and hugs to you!

 :hug: how would I have gotten through this mess without you and others here? It's so comforting to have a safe place to talk over this crazy making drama.

I already feel better. He texted me today saying he was sorry for hurting me and I just replied something like "I know but we need to keep it all business from now on."

My adult daughter is proud of how well I'm handling everything and I'm glad to be setting a good example for her!

I just want to record the facts here so if and when the hoovering starts back up I will be sure to remember.
1. He had a six month long emotional and physical affair.
2. He lied and deceived me the whole time.
3. He continued to lie when he was caught
4. He acted like I was crazy and paranoid
5. He belittled me repeatedly
6. He left me just when I needed him most (that's a song too)!
7. He had another person in my bed, told her he loved her,  made fun of me and said he didn't care if I came home and caught them.
8. He spent our household money on drugs and alcohol when he was with he behind my back.
9. He continued to blame me throughout.
10. He has been disrespectful and emotionally abusive.

I'm sure I will think of more but that's a good start.

please excuse me while I record some uncomfortable feelings. I'm mad and sad that the other woman gets to keep her husband, her home and her pets while I've basically lost everything. My whole house is tainted besides this one tiny room that I'm sure they didn't go in for their sordid affair. Once my house sells I will not be able to keep my dogs because I'm sure I will be in an apartment. I don't even know where I will live but I'm moving away from this city because I have no family here. I don't even feel comfortable keeping most of the furniture because they talked about their 'lovemaking' in my living room! Ok I'm done for now.
I'm ready to get back on track with my life and self care.

o, blossoming, your name reflects the woman you have become so far.  if it were my place, i'd be proud of you, too.  you did it, my dear.  kudos and congrats.  what an accomplishment.  what a victory! 

i'm sorry about your house being sullied.  i know what that feels like.  and i think your list is brilliant.  it can be so easy to ignore those negatives, remember the positives and want to go back thinking it might be different this time.  you may have to give up your house, but you gained so much re: self-respect, a positive example for your daughter, the courage and determination to see it all through, the strength you showed that will always be with you now.  i understand it's not the same, but it's shown that warrior woman spirit that we know and love.

and  pooh! to that other woman!   she certainly isn't happy in her marriage, even tho she gets to 'keep' her husband.   you've done exceptionally well with this. sweetie.  love and hugs, always. 

Those words were such a comfort , more than you know, sanmagic7.
I'm visiting my parents right now and even though it's a bit triggering it's good to be away while he is hopefully moving out. I haven't heard from him which is good. I'm going to try going no contact and if he needs to discuss business about selling the house and related stuff I've asked my brother to be our intermediary. We work for the same company so I'm going to try to find someone to be an intermediary there too. Thursday after we decided to separate he texted me about how sorry he was for hurting me and I asked him to keep it all business. Yesterday he asked when I was leaving to see my parents and when I asked why he wanted to know he replied that he was going to see if I wanted to have dinner with him. I just think no contact would be best because all I have the strength for right now is to hold down my full time job and take care of myself. I'm all drama'd out! It been nice to get away.

hey, blossoming, it sounds to me like nc with him might be a really good idea.  go out to dinner with him?  sounds like hoovering to me.  he blew it, he had his chances, he's had years to be nice to you.   

i love the idea that you have intermediaries for any kind of business stuff.  excellent idea!  i'll have to keep that in mind (i still own a house w/ my narc ex, and my narc daughter is living there right now, as far as i know.  i don't want to be around either of them!  ugh!)   also so glad you got away from there for a bit, and hope he's all gone by the time you go back.  you're doing great, sweetie.   although it's a sad situation on one level, i'm very happy for you on another level.      sending you a sweet little bouquet of violets (february's flower) for a job well done.  big hug!!!

Thanks for the virtual flowers sanmagic7! Here are some fireworks for you for being such a huge help to me through all of this!  :fireworks:

I just got home and H isn't here but it doesn't look like he has moved out either. I should have known it wouldn't be easy. I suppose I will ask him when he is moving when I see him next. On Wednesday night he said he needed a couple of days so I think I've given him long enough. He has plenty of family and friends he could stay with but all of my family is 2-3 hours away.

LOVE the fireworks!  thanks!

so, it sounds like he's going to prolong this, possibly to get you to weaken?  it sounds like a time to be careful and alert.  you've done so well so far.  i'm thinking he can't believe it, how great you've done, how determined you've become, how you've called him on his crapola, confronted him and my guess is he'll try everything in his bag of tricks to make this back under his control. 

i don't know if this is your cup of tea, but i have heard of people who have given a definite day for the other to move out, warned them what would happen if they didn't, and when they haven't, they found all their stuff out front and the locks changed.   sometimes drastic situations call for drastic measures.   i don't like how he's messing with your head now.  grrrr!   just something to think about.

stay strong and remember your list.  staying right beside you!  big hug, blossoming!

Oh my sanmagic7, how right you are! He asked me if I wanted to go go watch the super bowl with him tonight to which is said "absolutely Not and you were supposed to be moved out by now" which was followed by a bunch of excuses. I think he is in complete denial. I'm going to give him a date that's real soon that I expected him to be moved out by as you suggest! Thanks a million.

this stuff is so sneaky and insidious.  as nice a person as we like to be, sometimes we have to take a hard line.  i know (i've had to do stuff like this myself) that it can feel bad or wrong, or like we're bad people for putting up tough boundaries, but the others don't get it if we don't.

my hub, who's a recovering druggie, told me a long time ago that if someone offers you something that you don't want, it's imperative to say 'no' immediately.  if we hesitate, it gives the other person the idea that you're on the fence and that there's a chance to wear you down if they're persistent.   i've never forgotten that, cuz i used to try to let people down gently, over and over and over, etc., and somehow i'd find myself back in the thick of it.

just make sure, if you give him an ultimatum with consequences, that you're prepared to follow through.  i'm right behind you, blossoming - got your back.  big hug!

You're so right about boundaries sanmagic7. I'm still learning but I think I'm getting better.
The last three days I've done better eating and sleeping so that's positive. I can tell I'm still grieving but I'm sure that is normal.

i'm sure the grieving is normal, too.  it's a big loss.  and, with what you've been writing, it's evident that you're doing really well with your boundaries.  glad to hear, also, that you're beginning to 'normalize' a bit with eating and sleeping.  so very important to keep our strength and energy up when we're doing this hard work.

keep at  it.  you're doing soooo good!  hugs!

Thanks again sanmagic7.

I can't wait for him to leave. I got home from work and was getting the trash cans throughout the house emptied for tomorrow's pick up and when I tried to get in the room that's our home office it was locked!!! He is up to no good as usual.

I just have to get some things off my chest. I don't know this man at all anymore. I don't know what he is hiding in the office but it's highly disturbing. It's either drugs (I suspect he is continuing to use cocaine) or if he is up to no good with financial records. He might also not want me to have access to our computer for some reason. I had hoped we could split in a civilized manner but now I highly doubt that can happen. I just started working full-time last week and it's getting real old real quick to have to put up with his drama and dishonesty and keep up my performance at work. I guess I'm just going to have to ignore him tonight and call a locksmith while he is at work. I can't believe all of this has happened the way it has. I suppose I'll eventually calm down and get over it but it's just crazy that this is my life right now and there is a new crisis related to him nearly everyday for close to two months.  :fallingbricks:

ugh!  deceit and dishonesty, secrets, hiding.  no, it doesn't sound like anything good.  go for it!  you have the right to have a life of respect and openness.  i totally get it about not knowing the person you live with.  been there, done that.  it's awful!

computer secrecy?  yeah, finances, romances, and/or porn are the 3 things that pop into my mind.

hang tough, blossoming - hangin' right beside you! 

That means so much sanmagic7.

Yesterday I ran into my neighbor and we have made plans to start walking together after work. I'm really excited. I've started doing  other things to take care of me which feels nice. Today I woke up feeling more hopeful than I have in quite sometime. I realize I will still grieve but it's nice to have some hope and positive emotions in the mix too.

yay! for you, blossoming.  self-care is very hopeful.  so glad for you.  you're doing it!

Hi Blossoming,

I havent been around much for a while , here or at other place , as ive been dealing with a lot of my own depression and family crap. so i stopped messaging. 

Anyway, i found your journal and like wow , you have been really going through it. I didnt realise.  :fallingbricks:

But one thing ive learnt from your posts is that youve been growing stronger and stronger throughout it all, compared to the timid, fawn type, make excuses for others bad behaviour person.

You should be really proud of yourself , with so much on your plate (excuse the analogy).  You havent cracked!!

Just wishing you all the best, whatever the outcome :applause: :hug:

Its great youve found this place and get some good support from the members.   H

Thanks sanmagic7 and hazy111. Sorry you're dealing with overwhelming family issues too hazy. I've been offline for the last month. I started working full-time again probably 5-6 weeks ago out of necessity and it's been fine. One thing positive I can say about this whole situation is that I've become very empowered. I feel quite capable and I'm sort of proud of myself for the way I have handled everything. I didn't get down on myself or blame myself and I feel I have been able to look at everything pretty objectively. I sort of get why it happened but that doesn't make it ok if that makes sense.
One thing that happened that was very enlightening was talking to my mom on the phone a few weeks ago. Just when I could have used some understanding or kind words all I got from her was negativity. Finally I just ended the call by telling her I had to get back into work. No wonder I have issues... She is obviously older than me and has dealt with infidelity herself and all she could manage to do was gripe and complain. You would think a person who has lived through it could manage to show a bit of understanding.
Oh well, I suppose some people never change or even realize they might need to explore their own issues. On the one hand I feel pretty alone in the world right now but on the other I feel I've really stepped up for myself which is fantastic!

you truly have stood up for yourself, blossoming.  well done!

yeah, your mother.  some people will never get it, and it's like banging our heads against a wall to try to get something soothing from them.  sorry you had that experience with her. 

you keep moving forward with courage and determination, and that's the best.  we will conquer this beast yet!  take care of you first, always, and know that you're worth it.   big hug!

You should be proud of yourself. Well done you.

Isnt it symptomatic that your mother gave you no validation or support in your hour of need?? Proof of our dysfunctional upbringing. Narcisstic self obsessed parents dont make for happy well rounded children.

But the fact you dont need it, speaks volumes for your self confidence/esteem. Its coming from within. Well done you. Keep on keepin on. :thumbup: :applause:

Have you left the other place?? I think if you have, thats a positive too , imo,

Thanks so much for the support sanmagic7 and Hazy111.

As is probably to be expected some days are better than others but the overall trend seems to be positive. I do sometimes have nightmares about things related to the recent drama but not anything that seems to impact my waking life.  I'm eating and sleeping better and making it to work fine. I actually think work is helping me by keeping me busy and interacting with other people. I'm just focusing on baby steps right now.

Hazy, I did leave the other place around the end of December or beginning of January. I know it was the right decision and with everything that's happened there is no way I would have had time for it anyhow. I'm so glad I crossed paths with you there though and learned about this site!

overall better is good.  a few bumps are to be expected.  you're doing great!  big hug!