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Development of CPTSD in Childhood => Causes => Physical Abuse => Topic started by: mourningdove on February 13, 2017, 07:17:02 PM

Title: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: mourningdove on February 13, 2017, 07:17:02 PM
And by the way, spanking is abuse.

(This is inspired by another thread, but I didn't want to hijack it.)

***trigger warning***

I was spanked throughout my childhood and it was abuse. My mother liked to use wooden spoons because of the extra sting, and that was sadistic abuse. My parents kept a dedicated spanking paddle made of splintery wood in the kitchen. That was abuse. One time, my dad got extra angry and spanked me with his leather belt. It hurt so bad, I still remember it. he got triggered by my screaming and crying and the marks on me, and ended up begging me not to "make him" spank me again, and I ended up comforting him, because that's the way my parents rolled. How old was I? 4 or 5, maybe? He never did use the belt again, but that wasn't the end.

I preferred it when my mother spanked me, because she did not need to be consoled afterwards. She felt perfectly justified inflicting pain on small children, and would just go about her day afterwards. Surely this was just them trying to be good parents, right? That must be why they would chase me all over the house, rageful and red-faced. That must be why so much thought was given to which spanking methods would be the most painful.

When I became a teen and was too big to be easily subdued, my mother took to slapping me hard across the face. Occasionally, I would block it with my hand, and then she would wait until later when I had let my guard down and then strike out of the blue. She would strike me so hard that her hand would hurt and would then blame me for her hand hurting. She eventually stopped slapping me when I started taking it without reaction and mocking her for how weak the blows were. To this day, everyone thinks she is a nice lady. A couple weeks ago, she made a swatting motion with her hand, in a way that she thought was a joke, and I involuntarily flinched.

I tried to talk to my T about this a long time ago, but it was obvious that she had spanked her kids, and she claimed that spanking is okay for some kids, but I'm just more sensitive. I am more sensitive than most, but i don't think that makes spanking okay. If you chase down and beat a person, because you don't like what they have said or done, you will go to jail - unless it is your kid.

Spanking is abuse.



Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: alliematt on February 13, 2017, 09:58:27 PM
What you went through WAS abuse.  I am so sorry.   :'(
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on February 13, 2017, 10:15:31 PM
Totally agree. I'm not reading most of your post so as not to trigger myself, but

***** TRIGGER warning ******
 this 'activity' can also be a form of sexual abuse. It was in my case. The effects have been horrendous. And of course it is very difficult to talk about because so many people can't / won't take it seriously, including therapists. For me to talk about - I'm so embarrassed and ashamed that the topic bothers me. If I talk about it in more detail than now (which I don't need to here and won't) I trigger myself. Certain words are enough and I'm off into EF for days or weeks.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: woodsgnome on February 14, 2017, 12:59:15 AM
I too need to be careful here--this is extremely dangerous trigger territory for me if I wade in too far.

So rather than detail my woeful tales along the lines of physical abuse (especially, in my case, by teachers in parochial schools), all I so badly want right now is this-- for you, Mourning Dove....lots of these... :hug:  :hug:    :hug:    :hug:
 

Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: mourningdove on February 14, 2017, 04:04:40 AM
Thank you all. I really appreciate the support, especially on an issue like this that is so easy for so many to get triggered by. It makes such a huge difference just to have your validation.

 :hug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: bring em all in on February 14, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
Not having been spanked as you describe, these posts do not trigger me, so perhaps I can offer a more detailed response. I hope what I write will not be a trigger for you.

Spanking is trauma. It is physical trauma in the physical pain it causes. Many parents claim they are doing it "for your own good" and that "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you." This is rarely the case. "spanking" is rarely a measured response doled out with the sole intention of "teaching" a child right from wrong. Even if it begins that way it too often devolves into an adult taking out their anger on someone smaller and weaker than they are.

Of course, that is never to the child's benefit. 

It is also psychological pain. To be hurt by someone you should be able to trust, who is supposed to be your protector and source of love and comfort, would shake a child's sense of safety and self-worth. To strike a child is to negate their sense of self-worth. It positions the child in a mindset of submission to a "hjgher power" (and I use that term intentionally). To see this person so overcome by anger that they strike out physically is terrifying. I imagine a child could feel even more petrified fearing the adult would lose even more control and inflict even more harm. The "lessons" learned are "you deserve to be hit" and "you are too small and weak to stop me." These lessons are ingrained into a child and stay with them until/unless processing as an adult re-educates them otherwise.

I believe this is why the topic is such a trigger to many people. The very idea sends them back to those stages of development when they were the small helpless child facing the wrath.

If your therapist cannot see this, it might be time to find a new one. It is not a matter of you being "sensitive." It's a matter of you KNOWING that what happened wasn't right, and that it has had a profound effect on you. 

As I read your posts I was reminded of the songs "Luka" by Suzanne Vega and "* is for Children" by Pat Benatar.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Wife#2 on February 14, 2017, 07:25:27 PM
** Trigger warning, I will try to be vague, but will likely fail ***

I have been on both sides of this issue - as child of a parent, as student (Catholic nun teacher disciplinarian) and as a parent. I came to the conclusion that I must defy my husband and refuse to spank ever again. Period.

I happen to agree that spanking is abuse. Period. It is harmful to the physical, psychological and emotional health of a child.

Time out DOES work if applied consistently and in proper proportion to the misbehavior (lying, hitting another, stealing). For the same reasons restriction works for most teenagers. Most human beings, especially as children, want and need social time with parents and peers. When that is limited due to a child's behavior, they are learning two healthy lessons. 1) Nobody enjoys being around someone who acts out in those wrong ways. 2) While in time-out or restriction, the child AND the adult get to calm down and decide on better ways to communicate so this doesn't happen again.

NO punishment will EVER work, though, if there is not mutual respect of personhood from BOTH participants.

What I have learned by being a parent is that a child MUST have safety and dependability. They MUST have love and a sense of worth. We, as parents have an awesome responsibility to instill these in our children. That can only be accomplished by showing respect and love to the child, and to other adults in the child's world. Earning respect can only happen after showing respect. Respect cannot be demanded. Neither can proper behavior be forced after violence.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: mourningdove on February 15, 2017, 11:02:34 PM
Bring em all in and Wife#2,

Tried to reply yesterday, but went a little numb after I read your posts. I think it is because they are so accurate! I really appreciate what each of you wrote.  :yes:

I used to hear that song "Luka" on the radio and not consciously make the connection to my own life. :/

Thank you both so much!

 :hug:


Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: hurtbeat on February 26, 2017, 08:28:45 AM
It is most definitely abuse!

It was illegal in my country when I got spanked (amongst other things like getting my hair pulled out) but my mother always used to minimize it and say that it wasn't "hitting" or "abuse".

I can imagine how invalidating it must be for you who live in places where spanking is considered part of a healthy upbringing.
I've even had people tell me that they got an occasional spanking and that they where fine so why shouldn't I be?

People who haven't suffered through abuse and mental turmoil just have no idea how to relate.
Today I just say "good for you" and then don't discuss it with them any more, they will never know how it feels and I am glad for them.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Candid on February 26, 2017, 10:52:45 AM
The only thing spanking 'teaches' small children is that it's okay to hurt someone much smaller than yourself if you feel like it.

Mourningdove, I'm appalled that your parents kept a dedicated spanking paddle for your 'education'.

 :hug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: mourningdove on February 27, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
Thanks, hurtbeat.  :hug:

I've even had people tell me that they got an occasional spanking and that they where fine so why shouldn't I be?

Yes, that is very scary to me, because it means that they are not fine, at least in their attitude toward spanking, and they don't even know it. I think that spanking should be illegal everywhere.



The only thing spanking 'teaches' small children is that it's okay to hurt someone much smaller than yourself if you feel like it.

Mourningdove, I'm appalled that your parents kept a dedicated spanking paddle for your 'education'.

Thanks, Candid.  :hug:

That paddle was an especially tragic symbol of intergenerational trauma, because it had been kept from when my father was a child. My grandmother had used it on him when she wasn't torturing him in other ways "for his own good."



Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 17, 2017, 06:26:44 PM
Ummmmm......yeah....

I got some, 4-5 days a week from age 5 to 11....6 years....52 weeks.... approximately 312 times a year....1,400 or so...episodes....10-12 .............. each time. So....maybe 14,000-16,800 over all????

TW - details

That is only the thick, wide leather belt, popular from late 60s-early 80s.  Only the belt.  I've had half a dozen or more wooden spoons broken over my head. Never wooden hairbrush though...too thick to break. Extension cords, wire coat hanger, the good ol' stand by...hand.

Couldn't sit without pain for 6 years. 

I can't see mom's face, can't hear her voice, growling, ugly words.  Everything above the shoulders is blank.  My two brothers confirm that mommy dearest was quite brutal. They never got any of her physical punishment. That was my special privelege as first born.

Gonna stop now..fingers shaking too badly can't type or spell..

I'm so so sorry...
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on November 18, 2017, 09:50:19 PM
Found this thread today.. I have very rarely talked about the spanking my parents, particularly my mother did to me as a child. It was always something that was supposed to be for our own good.... I have never felt like it was right, but always assumed it was because I was being abused in other ways. I assumed my sensitivity to it was purely from the sexual/emotional/physical abuse I was enduring in other places.

It is validating to read all of this, like maybe I am not over reacting to it. Thank you all for this :hug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 22, 2017, 10:57:51 AM
I never thought it was abuse. At that time, I thought abuse was what those kids that came to school looking abused, was.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: melere on November 22, 2017, 12:06:17 PM
I was spanked as well and I've always been sensitive about it. I think what bothers me the most isn't what actually happened, but about how the people around me view it. **(TW)** People will get on the topic of unruly children and say, "Kids are so bratty these days. It's because parents aren't allowed to spank anymore. I was spanked and I turned out fine." Once I heard someone talking about doing it to their toddler and how it "didn't seem to be doing anything" and timeouts worked much better. (Ya think??) **(TW over)** Honestly, whenever it comes up, I get so angry I can't even speak. None of them have any concept of the harm they might be inflicting or indeed how ineffective it is overall.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that, mourningdove. Same for everyone else who was spanked. But we can help stop the cycle.  :grouphug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: AphoticAtramentous on November 22, 2017, 12:25:43 PM
This is a huge sensitive topic for me as well. Though I'm slightly comforted reading all ya'll posts about this, makes me feel less alone.
TRIGGER WARNING
Whenever I needed 'to be punished', it wasn't just a one hit thing, it was over and over and there was always that moment when my FOO would say; "We don't want to do this". SO WHY DO IT!? I firmly believe you can educate your children without the need for physical abuse, and I think that you're incapable of being a good parent if you have to resort to violence. That's just my opinion though, probably a biased one.
I don't exactly remember when the hitting stopped but even when it stopped, I was afraid. People would raise their hand, and that alone would cause me to flinch. I couldn't ever get close to my FOO in fear they would hit me. I would avoid passing them in the hallway at all costs because being so close to them would cause me to feel fear. It really messes you up. But I think with time I've finally stopped flinching automatically at least. And now I suddenly remember getting slapped on my hands, how I forgot that fact I don't know but interesting that it's just come up now.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 22, 2017, 04:53:54 PM
TW CPA described

I sure can see the difference in my own past, where the spankings turned into abuse, and by that I mean, 3-4 times per event, to 10-12 times...which is where mom's energy petered out. Thankfully. When daddy did it....he usually stopped after 6 or 7...had a LOT more power in his arms....I preferred the belt from him...there were a few times he used his hand....no flexing to absorb some of the impact like a belt would...there were a few times he grabbed me by my hair and my feet came off the ground.....but the pain in my scalp blocked out everything...just went white...don't usually like to talk about that.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on November 22, 2017, 05:09:24 PM
Andyman, what you endured was horrendous. I'm really sorry about that.

But I think the point on this thread is that: spanking in whatever form is abuse. So it doesn't turn from spanking to abuse. If, as for you, you've been through horrendous physical abuse, corporal punishment in a milder form might sound non-abusive and something like what happened to me (described further up) might not strike you as being abusive either. Yet, it was.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 24, 2017, 10:48:23 AM
Andyman, what you endured was horrendous. I'm really sorry about that.

But I think the point on this thread is that: spanking in whatever form is abuse. So it doesn't turn from spanking to abuse. If, as for you, you've been through horrendous physical abuse, corporal punishment in a milder form might sound non-abusive and something like what happened to me (described further up) might not strike you as being abusive either. Yet, it was.
Awwww...you caught me red handed unwittingly minimizing my own experience. See...that's one of the reasons it's been hard for me to see the spanking part as abuse...strangely though, I always remembered the "regular" spankings. It's the "irregular" ones that were blocked out. But even I can't minimize the other stuff.  I'm afraid to mention it, not sure if I can safely do that.

Please forgive me, I didn't mean to minimize your experience either. I am so very very sorry.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on November 24, 2017, 06:57:58 PM
Andyman,
Minimizing is something I think most of us have done at some point, or still do in our lives. I promise, st least for me there is not reason to be sorry. I did not read your post as being negative towards anyoneís experience here intentionally . Although Blueberry was very correct to talk about it, and give a reminder just so everyone is safe and validated.

I am always glad for your kindness and sharing.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on November 24, 2017, 06:59:41 PM
Please forgive me, I didn't mean to minimize your experience either. I am so very very sorry.

Yes, of course, no problem. Don't worry about it any more. Now you don't need to minimise your own experience anymore either, so it's a win-win situation  ;)
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on November 24, 2017, 07:02:47 PM
Minimizing is something I think most of us have done at some point, or still do in our lives.

Thanks for adding this too Elphanigh! Minimizing our own pain is part of CPTSD is it not?
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on November 24, 2017, 07:22:08 PM
I think it is definitely a very integral part of it. We are all working past that here, which is part of why I am so grateful this thread exists.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 28, 2017, 03:06:09 AM
Andyman,
Minimizing is something I think most of us have done at some point, or still do in our lives. I promise, st least for me there is not reason to be sorry. I did not read your post as being negative towards anyoneís experience here intentionally . Although Blueberry was very correct to talk about it, and give a reminder just so everyone is safe and validated.

I am always glad for your kindness and sharing.
Okay, thank you for saying that. I donít know how to accept it for what it truly is. Even if I wanted to. It feels like somebody doesnít want to believe itís true. Like accepting it means accepting that the abuse was much greater than previously thought. All the spankings not related directly to what had considered abuse, is abuse too.  And other physical punishment as well.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 28, 2017, 03:11:55 AM
Please forgive me, I didn't mean to minimize your experience either. I am so very very sorry.

Yes, of course, no problem. Don't worry about it any more. Now you don't need to minimise your own experience anymore either, so it's a win-win situation  ;)
Thank you. I will try my best to work on accepting things as they really are.  Not sure if it can be done. To add all of this to all of my CSA/R/CPA/ASA/APA/DV abuse. Doesnít exactly seem like winning anything really.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on November 28, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Sorry, 'win' was an insensitive word to use in that context. I hope you know what I meant to say anyway.

Feeling minimised was so hard for me because my parents minimised when I complained about certain things being done to me. They'd see a lot of what happened to people like you and Elphanigh as "real abuse" - they implied and even said that when I was growing up. Whereas what they did to me or allowed others to do they saw as "part of growing up" / "that's life" Or they said "some therapist has been putting ideas in your head" etc.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on November 28, 2017, 03:37:32 PM
Blueberry, I am so sorry that the minimized it so much. You do not deserve that at all... Sadly, I  understand. My parents used the same deck of cards it seems. Always saying what other people went through was bad, that our house was normal and just what happens while growing up. That still makes me question myself to this day, so I understand.

Hopefully you have got people around you that wonít minimize your experiences like that anymore
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on November 28, 2017, 03:46:11 PM
My parents used the same deck of cards it seems.

Yes, it seems to be the abusive-parent deck of cards. How sad is that? And even worse the result of so many of us on here questioning ourselves. Thank you for saying you understand.  :hug:

There are people around me who minimise a bit, there are people who don't minimise, and then there are people who gently tell me they think I'm minimising what was done to me!
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on November 28, 2017, 09:51:09 PM
It is sad to see the result of that abusive parent deck, we should never have to question ourselves but each of us does. I am glad to be able to give some understanding.  :hug:

Good to hear oh have people that donít minimize, and even help you see when you are minimizing. Those people are definitely keepers, I have needed ones like that in my life (especially recently)
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: BlancaLap on November 28, 2017, 10:11:52 PM
And by the way, spanking is abuse.

(This is inspired by another thread, but I didn't want to hijack it.)

***trigger warning***

I was spanked throughout my childhood and it was abuse. My mother liked to use wooden spoons because of the extra sting, and that was sadistic abuse. My parents kept a dedicated spanking paddle made of splintery wood in the kitchen. That was abuse. One time, my dad got extra angry and spanked me with his leather belt. It hurt so bad, I still remember it. he got triggered by my screaming and crying and the marks on me, and ended up begging me not to "make him" spank me again, and I ended up comforting him, because that's the way my parents rolled. How old was I? 4 or 5, maybe? He never did use the belt again, but that wasn't the end.

I preferred it when my mother spanked me, because she did not need to be consoled afterwards. She felt perfectly justified inflicting pain on small children, and would just go about her day afterwards. Surely this was just them trying to be good parents, right? That must be why they would chase me all over the house, rageful and red-faced. That must be why so much thought was given to which spanking methods would be the most painful.

When I became a teen and was too big to be easily subdued, my mother took to slapping me hard across the face. Occasionally, I would block it with my hand, and then she would wait until later when I had let my guard down and then strike out of the blue. She would strike me so hard that her hand would hurt and would then blame me for her hand hurting. She eventually stopped slapping me when I started taking it without reaction and mocking her for how weak the blows were. To this day, everyone thinks she is a nice lady. A couple weeks ago, she made a swatting motion with her hand, in a way that she thought was a joke, and I involuntarily flinched.

I tried to talk to my T about this a long time ago, but it was obvious that she had spanked her kids, and she claimed that spanking is okay for some kids, but I'm just more sensitive. I am more sensitive than most, but i don't think that makes spanking okay. If you chase down and beat a person, because you don't like what they have said or done, you will go to jail - unless it is your kid.

Spanking is abuse.

OMG, what you are telling is horrible! And what a terrible T... I'm so sorry... that should never happen, no parent should spank a child
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on November 29, 2017, 10:48:57 AM
Sorry, 'win' was an insensitive word to use in that context. I hope you know what I meant to say anyway.

Feeling minimised was so hard for me because my parents minimised when I complained about certain things being done to me. They'd see a lot of what happened to people like you and Elphanigh as "real abuse" - they implied and even said that when I was growing up. Whereas what they did to me or allowed others to do they saw as "part of growing up" / "that's life" Or they said "some therapist has been putting ideas in your head" etc.
Yes, I do know what you meant, and your word use of "win" was also fine.  Really.

The only thing I can honestly say I think my parents minimized in me, was my memories. They were always telling me I was wrong. Always.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on December 08, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Yep I'm pretty sure you originally started this thread after my thread on physical abuse where I said something about the difference between "beating" and "just" spanking. (I remember from a while back. I totally agree with you btw. It was just a difference that the older generation seems to make in trying to excuse their behavior.

In fact, I'm adamantly opposed to any kind of uninvited contact. It seems I was still pretty foggy there for a while trying to figure stuff out, thinking "maybe they didn't realize" the effect they were having. Now I know it doesn't MATTER what they thought. Now I have no tolerance for the ENTITLEMENT some people feel to hit, smack, poke, prod, whip, spank, push, shove, shave, grab, grope, fondle, or otherwise initiate some sort of entitled contact. Since there has still been no change in attitude, I'm still NC because there is still no recognition or amends for a lifetime of unwanted contact.

About a year ago I got a "heartfelt" letter from my uNm who I was NC for over a year with. The only mention of this area, which I have always thought she was remorseful for but just didn't know how to show it, was that she said she only did what was done to her, and she thought she needed to "discipline" me so I would know how to treat people. That's it. Is that not the same as blaming me, and her parents, for her treatment of me? A gaslight of the gaslight. ICK  :blowup: Mind you, I was a super quiet, always respectful, loving and kind little kid. I tiptoed around and was "perfect" in the sense I would never not "mind" an adult. I remember lots of rage and out of control episodes happening and I didn't know what was going on or why. Anyway, that letter sort of confirmed the NC moving forward.

Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on December 08, 2017, 04:39:08 PM
About a year ago I got a "heartfelt" letter from my uNm who I was NC for over a year with. The only mention of this area, which I have always thought she was remorseful for but just didn't know how to show it, was that she said she only did what was done to her, and she thought she needed to "discipline" me so I would know how to treat people.

ummmm, does that mean you were meant to learn that this "discipline" was how to treat people, smaller and less able to defend themselves than you??

I like you as a little kid didn't always know what was going on or why. As in "What did I do to unleash this??" I can't give myself all the descriptors you give yourself, but I do know I tried so hard to be 'good' but I couldn't stop crying and I couldn't stop quarrelling with my older brother, for which I (as younger kid) was always deemed at fault. No surprise there since I am SG but I didn't understand that then obviously. These two 'crimes' were what led to this type of discipline, which word I can't even write without triggering myself.

Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on December 08, 2017, 04:43:35 PM
In fact, I'm adamantly opposed to any kind of uninvited contact. ......Now I know it doesn't MATTER what they thought. Now I have no tolerance for the ENTITLEMENT some people feel to hit, ..... push, shove, shave, grab, grope, fondle, or otherwise initiate some sort of entitled contact.

Thanks for putting these words and phrases out there "uninvited contact" "ENTITLEMENT" to do all that stuff whether it's hitting, shoving or fondling. That's why it's all abuse.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on December 08, 2017, 05:58:27 PM
Yeah, we were just sitting ducks. I guess I'm understanding "why" they did what they did- because they were malignant narcissists brought on by things that happened to them, that they never have recognized or addressed. I've spent a long time in reaction to that, fleas, fog, narcissistic traits myself..it's pretty eye-opening to see it all for what it is. And this sort of egregious abuse is just that. They could have changed it, they could have done better than was done to them. I don't see why they don't TRY to even be slightly different. This has finally sunk in as THE reason it's important to remain NC. There's just no good reason to subject myself to their line of thinking anymore. I treat myself better now.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: BlancaLap on December 08, 2017, 06:02:23 PM
Yeah, we were just sitting ducks. I guess I'm understanding "why" they did what they did- because they were malignant narcissists brought on by things that happened to them, that they never have recognized or addressed. I've spent a long time in reaction to that, fleas, fog, narcissistic traits myself..it's pretty eye-opening to see it all for what it is. And this sort of egregious abuse is just that. They could have changed it, they could have done better than was done to them. I don't see why they don't TRY to even be slightly different. This has finally sunk in as THE reason it's important to remain NC. There's just no good reason to subject myself to their line of thinking anymore. I treat myself better now.

Well said! (°Bien dicho!)
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on December 08, 2017, 06:32:54 PM
About a year ago I got a "heartfelt" letter from my uNm who I was NC for over a year with. The only mention of this area, which I have always thought she was remorseful for but just didn't know how to show it, was that she said she only did what was done to her, and she thought she needed to "discipline" me so I would know how to treat people.

ummmm, does that mean you were meant to learn that this "discipline" was how to treat people, smaller and less able to defend themselves than you??

I like you as a little kid didn't always know what was going on or why. As in "What did I do to unleash this??" I can't give myself all the descriptors you give yourself, but I do know I tried so hard to be 'good' but I couldn't stop crying and I couldn't stop quarrelling with my older brother, for which I (as younger kid) was always deemed at fault. No surprise there since I am SG but I didn't understand that then obviously. These two 'crimes' were what led to this type of discipline, which word I can't even write without triggering myself.

I was the oldest, and the only one to get CPA too. My younger brother, 4 at the time, even did things to get me in trouble, without realizing the scope of what he was doing. There never was questions asked, if something had happened, or even the had the potential to happen, I was pre-emptively beaten. He hit me with a toy one time, which broke on my head, and after getting the standard overly excessive beating punishment, had to go into my piggy bank to replace his toy that he broke over my head.

Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on December 08, 2017, 07:36:00 PM
Andyman- I'm so sorry-that makes me angry for you. I hope those people don't get any of your time now. I can also relate with similar things with my cousin and sister. It was just ALL about the narcissist proving they have control to the other adults, so they can feel worthy. The worst thing that could happen to them is for them to lose their control over someone else. I remember many times, if abuse happened in provate and I was banished to my room, I could hear my mom out the window telling the neighbor how she had whipped me, along with a lie/twisted version of the story, with an adamant "she KNOWS i have the CONTROL." The neighbor seemed to buy right into it with "yeah, you gotta show 'em who's boss!" I really loathe these people who take advantage of their power to abuse. Loathe.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Jazzy on December 09, 2017, 12:25:54 AM
Whoa... so TW like the rest.

I don't want to go in to much detail, but I designed "correctional rods" for my parents to "spank" me with. You know, sanded the wood down, and burned designs and words in to it to make it look nicer. I was always taught this was a good thing, their way of making sure I turn out right.

It's since been made illegal here, but there seems to be a strong attitude of it still being okay. I'm having a hard time just thinking about claiming this is abuse. Does anyone have advice, or can they share about how they've become more confident dealing with this? I'm not even sure how much of the problem is me, and how much is the society.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: BlancaLap on December 09, 2017, 11:52:43 AM
I'm not even sure how much of the problem is me, and how much is the society.

I would say it is 0% you, 100% society
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Libby12 on December 10, 2017, 09:07:36 AM
A number of years before I went NC with my FOO,  although looking back,  I was starting to come OOTF,  my nm very cheerfully said "Well,  I used to hit you, and it never did you any harm!"  I was shocked that she admitted it but I see that her admission (she is never wrong and never apologises) showed how she truly believed what she said.  After all, any marks and bruises faded.  As she never accepted that I had any emotions,  she never harmed them.  For me, it didn't matter if it hurt, and I don't remember the sensation but, my goodness,  decades later, I still remember the emotional pain these beatings caused.  I was powerless,  shamed and blamed and had to grovel for forgiveness for what I had forced her to do.  BTW,  I never got that forgiveness, it was just added to the ever-growing list of all of the awful things I did to my nm, because I didn't love her as she demanded to be loved. 

So yes, spanking is abuse to me, but spanking by a disordered parent is so many more layers of abuse and those are what did the damage to me.

Sorry for the rant! 
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Jazzy on December 10, 2017, 09:46:33 AM
That sounds terrible Libby! Twisting things like that so she appears the victim is really messed up. You put it very well by saying it was more layers of abuse.

Thanks for sharing, and please don't apologize!
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on December 10, 2017, 08:47:37 PM
Twisting things like that so she appears the victim is really messed up. You put it very well by saying it was more layers of abuse.

 :yeahthat:

I don't think your post is a "rant" and even if it were, you certainly don't need to apologise for it!
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on December 11, 2017, 03:18:34 AM
Libby-perfectly said. I feel the exact same way, and my mom has said almost the exact same thing, multiple times. I've always been confused/gaslighted when she said these things..nodding my head..of course, uh huh..it's always been hard to call it for what it is in the moment because of all the gaslighting. It really does define how they truly feel doesn't it. You don't get feelings, and I get to hit and say what I want to feel sadistically powerful. More times than I can count. Hugs to you..wish some times we could all talk in person or hang out by a campfire and enjoy the peace and know we all get it.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Three Roses on December 11, 2017, 05:02:13 AM
Quote
wish some times we could all talk in person or hang out by a campfire and enjoy the peace and know we all get it.

I was thinking this earlier today - in my mind's eye, I could see us all at The Healing Porch, enjoying hanging out together and doing as we pleased. Sitting by a fire, alone or with someone; reading a book or listening to music; playing frisbee and volleyball. And because it's a place of miracles, I could run and play too! And I started to wonder what would happen if all our sweet, innocent inner children showed up to play with each other....
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on December 11, 2017, 11:00:39 AM
And I started to wonder what would happen if all our sweet, innocent inner children showed up to play with each other....
:hug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on December 11, 2017, 02:43:55 PM
 :grouphug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on December 14, 2017, 10:58:57 AM
Phoebes,
Well, they get some time. I grew up knowing them as I have always remembered them being. It's only been since this year that all my abuse memories have been  coming back. So now I know what I never knew.  I'm struggling to reconcile what's been revealed with what I know. I do keep them at arms length, but not any further. Out relationship never was "good" but never bad either.  And I do have to contend with a host of physical ailments that were caused by the long term physical abuse, though. And that is a whole different issue all together.

*** TW *** CSA

Jazzy,
One of the things I told myself to help understand it is this; would it be abuse if I did it to my neighbor's kids? Of course it would. So...same same if I did that to my own kids, or what was done to me. Over the past week I was reading a study done, back in 1985, that was about the effects of physical punishment on children. And spanking was one of the things focused on. Beatings of any kind, on the buttocks, really. One of the interesting things was the effects on the sexual psyche of the children as they grew and matured. Since the bottom is a big part of the erogenous zone and there are so many nerves involved with the pleasures of physical intimacy, any kind of spanking/beating of said area, sends mixed signals to the brain's pleasure center. And they get stored away, and cause problems in these children as they become adults and explore their sexual nature. And the long term accumulated trauma also causes physical problems too.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Jazzy on December 17, 2017, 02:21:56 AM
Whoa Andy, those are some great points. Thank you so much! I doubt I'd live until trial in jail if I did that stuff to the neighbour's kids. That's a great perspective.  :)
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on December 19, 2017, 04:57:54 PM
Whoa Andy, those are some great points. Thank you so much! I doubt I'd live until trial in jail if I did that stuff to the neighbour's kids. That's a great perspective.  :)

Yeah, so, if jail would be result of spanking/beating neighbors kids, that should give pause to those who do same to their own, or for us who experienced that growing up.

 Andy :phoot:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: blues_cruise on December 19, 2017, 05:42:41 PM
It really is abuse and I'm so sorry for what you've all been through. :hug: I'm starting to realise how much I've been minimising my own physical abuse. I used to get prodded really hard in the ribs while NF sneered in my face and he would do 'play games' where he would squeeze our hands and contort our limbs really tightly until we cried out for him to stop. It would be a small child pinned under 16 stone of him so we were completely at his mercy. It was like a way to break our will so that we knew we could never win. He never played real games with us, just that. I also got slapped which stung, though he was too covert to leave bruises. Just today I think I remembered that he used to slap the side of my face hard so that my ear would ring, though it's a strange one because I'm not completely sure of the memory. I know he did this to my brother so I'm guessing I probably experienced it at some point. I can feel how it felt so vividly but I can't pinpoint the actual memory. I wonder if I might have been very little.

He would only lift his hand to us (bar the 'play games') if we dared answer back, so I think I always assumed it was just strict parenting and didn't question it too closely as an adult. He didn't slap me around as much as a teenager but the threat was always there, for instance if I answered back he would aggressively throw me backwards on to my bed and would chase me round the house in a rage. He once leant over me and my instinctual reaction was to flinch, which he then shouted at me for (as though you can control flinching!) 

He's an old man now but I think the repressed memories of the physical stuff (I think there's a lot I would have been too young to remember) make it impossible for me to be around him anymore. I don't think spankings are acceptable in any form. I believe smacking a child in the UK is considered acceptable in the eyes of the law as long as it's a 'reasonable punishment' and isn't hard enough to leave marks, which I think just leaves children open to being terrorised by bullying parents.

Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on December 19, 2017, 09:12:41 PM
blues_cruise

You got that right. It sure is abuse. And it's so very hard to combine that with my csa/r.

 Andy :phoot:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on April 25, 2018, 09:24:35 PM
I know this thread is ages old but I think it fits with this. Not worth making a new thread when we have a very relevant one going. (If mods think otherwise let me know)

*trigger warning* (foo, sparking etc)


Found a new trigger... gotta love my M.. I am in a text chain with her and my grandpa since my Great grandma is in the hospital after her surgery yesterday. Mom and him are talking back and forth, I have just been reading... these are her words verbatimďI wish I could just go turn her over my kneeĒ... this is talking about my great grandmother.. purely because she is being stubborn.. she is mostly alone in the hospital, on pain medications, and stressed. Of course she is a bit stubborn. Even joking about spanking a grown women as punishment to get her to be more compliant is not okay.. She is 88.

As a perfectly adult 24 year old this still bothers me. Spanking is funny and a joke to my family, just s way to get people to understand their point. I spent my younge ry3rs getting bent over that knee if I spoke up or didnít do something right. I often got blamed for things others did and ended up inthat spot. For me reading this was like a slap to the face, a reminder that they find what I went through a joke. That they will never see any damage that it has done.

I know on the scale of things this probanly isnít Ďthat badí, but it isnít okay. Anyone else get this? I donít want to be bringing this out of logical proportion
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Deep Blue on April 26, 2018, 12:37:51 AM
Elphanigh,
I had a similar experience last night.  I went with an old college friend to dinner.  She is at her witts end with her 4 daughter.


*** Trigger warning as well***



She said she has tried everything to get her to behave.  She said she has tried punishment and reward and none of it works.  She said her daughterís super power is knowing how to push peopleís buttons.  She said she knew something had to give because she hit her daughter with a belt to make her point.
I just lost it.  Having been punished in that way myself I just couldnít deal.  I went to the bathroom.

I found myself fighting the panic attack there and grounding.  I somehow avoided one... but what the heck!?! Hitting a 4 year old with a belt is not ok.  Of course it opened up the nightmares all night last night.  I donít care hand or object... Iím damaged goods now... and that type of punishment is to blame. 

P.S.  I donít think I can talk to that friend anymore for awhile
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on April 26, 2018, 03:02:03 AM
Deep Blue,

I am sorry you had a similar experience, hitting a four year old is never okay. It doesnít teach them right from wrong, it simply teaches them fear and obedience because of it...

Sending hugs if thatís okay  :hug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Deep Blue on April 26, 2018, 11:12:34 AM
Elphanigh,
Yes a hug is great.  I totally agree with you though.  There is a reboot of the show Rosanne right now.  It seems to glorify child abuse. (Of course I could be a bit jaded)
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on April 26, 2018, 12:20:28 PM
Deep Blue, I am glad the hug was well received. I have not watched the reboot, as I had no real interest. However, I am sure it isnít not just you being jaded
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Blueberry on April 26, 2018, 06:07:23 PM
*trigger warning* (foo, spanking etc)


Even joking about spanking a grown women as punishment to get her to be more compliant is not okay.. She is 88.

As a perfectly adult 24 year old this still bothers me. Spanking is funny and a joke to my family, just s way to get people to understand their point. I spent my younge ry3rs getting bent over that knee if I spoke up or didnít do something right. I often got blamed for things others did and ended up inthat spot. For me reading this was like a slap to the face, a reminder that they find what I went through a joke. That they will never see any damage that it has done.

I totally get this! I can't stand this subject being joked about for any age group. Needless to say it was joked about in FOO, and they will never see the damage the whole topic did.  :hug: :hug: for little Elpha from Adult Blueberry. My 7 year old really understands.

Deep Blue, I would have been having big problems in that situation too - all my energy would have gone on trying not to dissociate.

(Elpha, I think it's fine to continue using a thread even if older. It's hard enough often to find an old thread here where i wrote or read something. So it's easier then if one subject matter is all on one thread, imo. Only if OP didn't like it and complained about a hijack would Mods have to act. Don't think that's the case here with mourning dove).
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on April 26, 2018, 10:13:25 PM
Blueberry thank you for all of that. Little Elpha loves the hug  :hug: Adult me sends hugs to 7 year old Blueberry  :grouphug:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on May 13, 2018, 04:35:33 PM
TW*** describes cpa in general terms.

I wanted to add to what I had said previously about how spanking is also s****l abuse. I donít know why I didnít say this then.  Along with the actual physical injury caused by spnkng, to the targeted area, injury is also caused elsewhere. In the same book I was reading, it gave some serious details of injury that we donít realize is also occurring. One is more so due to male anatomy. Especially when being bent over an object, to present a better target for impending abuse. 

What happens is the kinetic energy is transferred from the delivery device to the recipientís body.  Just like a car that got rear ended by a bigger vehicle.  When standing up, our body dispersed the impact  throughout our body and through flinching away from the impact. Same as car getting pushed down the road. 
But  when bent over something else, you get a double impact. Like same car being pushed into a car in front of it.  I very clearly remember being sore in both areas after being punished in that fashion.  Whether bent over daddyís knees or footboard of a bed....the pain of the blow, and then the pain of impact with the hard unmoving object I was bent over... I never connected the two to the same action.

The other thing that occurs is energy waves travel up the spinal column to the brain. While significantly less severe than shaking, the cumulative injury builds up over time, resulting in gradually developing brain injuries.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: briasmith12 on June 29, 2018, 04:14:09 AM
Just going to keep this thread going, apparently.  :thumbup:

***TW***

DH and I were talking about this the other night. He knows some of my history so he asked, "Would you allow me to spank our kids?" and I responded emphatically "Absolutely not. Never, ever will you lay a hand on our children. It's abuse." He doesn't get it, sees nothing wrong with it. He was part of the "I got spanked and turned out fine." He agrees that what I went through was abuse (belt, wooden spoons being literally broken by impact, etc.), but his dad, apparently, would never spank him in "anger". it was always presented rationally, which is a whole other topic of the psychological impacts of spanking. He'd do something wrong, be sent to his room and then some time later his dad would come up, explain to him what he did wrong to "deserve" the punishment, spank him, then hug him and tell him that "This hurts me more than it hurts you" bull**** and how he never wanted to "have to do that" again. It makes me so angry and panicky, I just can't deal. DH ended the conversation by saying it will be his last resort. I told him it will never come to that, and I will never let it come to that. When we have kids, when he sees just how much I won't let him touch our children, he'll understand. I'd leave him in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Elphanigh on June 29, 2018, 12:48:55 PM
Thank you for keeping the thread alive. It is one of my favorites.

I want to tell you I understand and am in the same boat as you. If kids are ever in my future, I would never let my potential partner lay a hand on them.. it did too much damage to me and there are so many other ways to get through to kids. Spanking is never the answer.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on June 29, 2018, 07:06:28 PM
Bria- I have a few of those "i was spanked and turned out fine" or, "spanking taught me to respect my elders", etc.. The people in my life who say this also have a plethora of denial issues going on. They are "fine", yet alcoholic, or morbidly obese, horde, or have emotional issues that are undeniable. The spanking did them good, but what made them have addiction, ocd and/or denial then? (I want to ask but don't) I don't buy the "it taught me respect". It taught a lot of things, but respect was not one of them.

In a letter I got from my Nm after going NC (one where she tried to hoover and manipulate of course) she said she thought she needed to "discipline" me to "teach me how to treat people." Yes, to "treat" her in the sadistic way she required. Full and immediate compliance in every situation, and if half a second goes by it's full retaliation by way of hitting, beating and screaming. So she basically confirmed it was wrong, while trying to defend her actions and turn it around on me once more.

I had a recent lunch with my best friend's mom and sister the other day, and they started "joking" about spanking and how they used switches and pink pong paddles and how the kids would try to hide them. I was really triggered and I said I didn't agree with spanking or hitting of any kind. They got real quiet, then defended themselves and laughed it off. I felt a chilly frost when we parted ways and I though "GOOD". I can't listening to all that stuff anymore without saying something. I guess that's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Deep Blue on June 29, 2018, 07:51:42 PM
Phoebes Iím so glad you said something.  Iím a freeze response mostly or flight.  I had a discussion with a friend a couple months ago and she had said something similar.  I wish I would have said something.  I just shut down and havenít really spoken much with her since.  Heavy sigh  :Idunno:  thanks for saying what I didnít have the courage to say.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on June 29, 2018, 08:11:27 PM
Thanks, Deep Blue. There's been so many times I froze. I usually do freeze, or fawn. I'm trying to get better about believing my opinion matters too, and if people are going to bring stuff like that up, at a fun lunch no less, than I feel like I deserve a say (finally). Although this is hard for me and I'll be working on this for a long time, I'm sure.

Also, above, I did not intend to offend about the addictive and denial issues. Those are some of my issues (alcohol, eating, denial) which after realizing and coming out of the fog about this, it's easy to see in myself, and in others who have the same type of issues.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on July 02, 2018, 01:33:30 AM
 I used to say I was spanked and turnd out okay. But never as a reason to spank my own kids. Mostly in general conversations. But that was all before my memories came back. Now that I know what I went through...even reading these last few posts has got me all triggered and

WE, my brothersand i , we neve r ever ever dared to try hide anything that could be used. Besides, would be kinda hard to hide belt while mommy was wearing it.  Broken wooden spoons....2 broke on backside, and 4 over head. 

 :disappear:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Libby183 on July 02, 2018, 05:49:16 AM
My mother often said that she hit me a lot but it never did me any harm.  Her weapon of choice was whatever footwear she happened to be wearing. 

The actual beating probably didn't do me a huge amount of harm at the time, but the message it sent to me, about how I had no feelings worth considering did harm me. Forever.

It was her unshakeable belief that nothing she did or said to me could have any negative effect on me that started to lead me out of the fog.

I am ashamed to say that I did hit out at my children a few times when they were young and I was overwhelmed.  I felt awful and always apologised and made them feel loved again.  After my mother hit me,  it was me who had to grovel to her, and forgiveness was an unknown concept for her.

I have lovely relationships with my grown-up children. Once they could talk, I did not need to lash out, but this also coincided with the start of LC with my parents. I think this was a big factor.
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: SunnyDays on August 12, 2018, 02:04:15 PM
Hello,
*triggers warning*

Me too. Unfortunately, there was a time when this was perceived at """"normal""". But even back then, a few decades ago, to be a target of abuse on this topic.... every single night (like my case) was certainly one of the causes of panic attacks back in the 2000s and now generalized anxiety (and fear too though I've overcome it a bit). I took this serious when I perceive that something like that is happening I can be almost sure that there are worst things to come. (I was attempted to be strangled by my mother, at 18, one day after work because I was tired).

xx
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on August 12, 2018, 03:59:40 PM
Sunny, I'm so sorry you've gone through this, too. It sounds like you're even crossing over into more/"extreme" abuse as well. I'm just so sorry. I know how that feels, to have resigned yourself to daily/probable daily "happenings".

Andyman, I really feel for you when you tell your story. I really loathe the people who abused you. I feel like with many of us who had the physical abuse mixed in with the emotional abuse and rages, it's on a whole other level than some of my friends whose parents were overall supportive and loving, and "popped" them a time or two on the bottom. (however your research has me thinking about my own "issues" there). I think that was damaging to them too, but on a different level from the sadistic type of abuse many of us went through.

I was wondering, was there an event that made you remember your abuse at a later age (where you had repressed it?) I wonder this, because I remember my sister being abused a lot, but she does not remember anything. I often wonder if she will remember, and also see the ongoing and current lack of empathy in my Nm. She is the GC, so things are different for her, but I have witness and been on the receiving end of the danger that presents itself in private.




Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Andyman73 on August 17, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
Pheobes,

Thank you so so much for being upset on my behalf. That's still a strange concept for me...that others would be upset for me.

Yeah, I agree with you...as far as other kids who got the occaisional backside correctional action, versus us who lived that as a sometimes more than once a day experience. I can't say if those who only got it on the rare occaision....well....can't say, so not gonna speculate either.  Think that as much as the physical does effect us...even those that got the occaisional...I think what the parent was doing ... facial expressions anger and all that stuff.  Were they angry...or totally out of control....you know?

Okay, sooooo what made me remember my trauma....I had a mandatory work training about reporting and preventing sexual assault. And it didn't do anything at the time of doing the training....but 3 days later at 2am, it hit me like a bomb going off in my head! I remembered being SA at age 20/21 by a male predator. While it wasn't overly horrifying physically, the emotional and mental trauma was.  Took another 6 -7 weeks before I got more memories back....and they didn't hit as hard...and most of them came while I was awake.  It probably was 4-5 months later that I remembered my physical child abuse. Been 18 months now....since January 22nd, 2017...and I'm still getting memories back....not as often though. Going back 43 years to age 2.

I'm very sure she will remember...but may take years....not sure how old she is...I was 43 when I started gettng my memories back. But..I had been living with CPTSD pretty much all my life...and it became recognizable to myself back in 1994.  I never ever imagined it would be what it turned out to be.  If I were to count each individual incident as 1 each...then I'm looking at thousands of incidents of abuse over 43 years.   :aaauuugh: :fallingbricks: :stars: ??? :'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: LilyITV on October 05, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
I come from a culture where "spanking" is considered a necessary thing and is even glorified.  It has been so hard for me to come out and admit what I experienced was abuse. 

****trigger warning.  As a child, my dad's punishment of choice was beatings with a belt.  He'd tell me to hold out my hand and not move it, and when of course I had to withdraw due to the pain, he'd start to beat me all over my body.   In a way, the fact that he was not angry when he did it made it worse in ways I can't fully put my finger on.  Maybe I felt like he was justified in doing it because he had thought it through? Thinking back I'm angry because as a child I was a total people pleaser.  Although spanking is never justified, I never did anything as a kid that would have warranted any kind of severe corrective action. 

I have just begun therapy, but one thing I'd like to develop is the assertiveness to push back whenever I hear someone defending spanking.   Just to be able to say, no it's not normal, it is abuse, and frankly you should not be a parent if you don't know how to discipline your kids in other ways. 
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on October 20, 2018, 04:59:56 PM
**TW** (hopefully no one is reading this thread who is concerned about a trigger at this point).
**rambly warning**

This topic is a tough one. I keep hearing more and more, as therapists and life coaches post more and more youtubes, there is less and less about physical abuse that did not leave us with broken arms or big facial bruises. There is a lot about how "emotional abuse is just as, if not more, painful and long lasting, even though it doesn't leave bruises." True. I'm really glad emotional abuse is being exposed.

However, there's not much out there about how being attacked during a narcissistic rage, or being "disciplined" constantly (daily, 3 or 4 times weekly) with belt beatings, or other beatings, don't necessarily "leave a bruise", or if they do, as a child, you don't SEE the bruise on your back side. I remember seeing red, belt-shaped marks on my legs that went away the next day or two, and no adult outside of the home ever saw. As a child I'm not sitting there thinking hmmm now is this a legitimate bruise or mark, or is all that stuff my Nm was raging about more significant?" No, it all went together and was terrifying. I was in constant state of adrenaline, whether physical or verbal, or covertly emotional.

In my recovery, I'm just now kind of able to process the fact that I was not being "disciplined" for wrong-doings. I was being attacked because I was vulnerable. I was being attacked because my "differences" from my mother were interpreted by her as "rebellion" and "disrespectful." For example, If I wanted to wear something she didn't like for herself (like my favorite jeans, green courderoys), that was viewed as an extreme disrespect, because I knew she didn't like them. This was applied to pretty much everything, and by the age of 5 or so, I was cut off from saying anything/my opinion and was "disciplined" if the "wrong" thing came out of my mouth.

If I did do something that a child needed to be taught to do differently, which would have taken a mere conversation, the way she "taught" me was to extreme beat me, and then meanfully say, "NOW. I bet you won't do THAT again, will you!?!" or "NOW. Are you gonna do that AGAIN?" I had to answer with the appropriate word and tone, or I got more. Sometimes I didn't know what she was looking for and kept trying until I got it "right". If I cried, I "got more until I stopped." The more I keep thinking about this, the more horrible I realize it was. One of the triggering and telling things in the last conversation with my mom, it that she proclaimed she "never laid a hand on me." (I understand now her extreme shame that prevents her from taking responsibility now).

I think what is currently so upsetting is I was prevented from pursuing things that would have led to happiness. Things I enjoyed and had a natural inclination toward were ragefully dismissed and scoffed at. If I did them anyway just for fun (music, art), I was criticized or prevented from doing them. I kept doing things I liked despite all the degradation, but I could have actually been a musician, or artist. It's like it was such a foreign thought that that was a possibility. My DAD was a musician and artist, and he never once taught me, defended me or helped me pursue my dreams. My mom criticized him too. He should have gotten me away from her. But no, I blame myself. I don't blame my parents. Everyone knows that you "can't do that" for having made adult decisions not to pursue your dreams. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and declare it WAS their fault. Through beatings, emotional and verbal abuse and neglect. I never believed I could. And in fact, it's like I couldn't do anything without "permission" from somewhere. This being literally beaten into me from an early age, I hate to tell all these "I got spanked"people DID have a severely negative effect on me. Because of all the brainwashing and societal messages, it's taken me years to realize I need to heal from this.


Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Deep Blue on October 20, 2018, 06:17:27 PM
Phoebes,
I agree with you here so much.  What you describe has really really long lasting consequences.  Many of those consequences I am still realizing...
Consequences:
1. I have severe anxiety and panic attacks
2. I still struggle with SH because it was the only thing I felt I could control
3. I have triggers daily.... many related to implements used...
4. I donít cry... I guess I would like to.  I was in the same situation as you. No tears or utterances were to come out of my mouth.  If they did... ďextreme abuseĒ as you put it would follow.  So today I canít cry, I dissociate or get a panic attack instead.... so many interwoven damages  :Idunno:
Title: Re: spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse. spanking is abuse.
Post by: Phoebes on October 20, 2018, 06:44:18 PM
I can really relate to all of these  too, DB.
The not being able to cry around other people makes me feel like an alien.
I think I've realized I have an affect disorder as well. I can literally feel people pulling away from me, because I can't be normal.
I can relate to daily triggers. There are so many..I guess I'm learning to talk myself down from those as much as I can. Recognize it, and talk through it in my mind.
So sorry you're experiencing this, too. I feel like we have all come really far, but these somatic responses are very deep and take time, like grief. It's not a linear process..