(Edited to add - STRONG TW - sexual abuse - graphic sexual details)
*** Trigger warnings: Promiscuity, date rape, sexual harassment ***
In my story, most of my childhood abuse was in the form of neglect and invalidation along with some sibling bullying. It was really pretty mild compared to what most here have survived. Still, what it set up in me was a feeling of emotional starvation. I read somewhere recently about Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder. http://www.boredpanda.com/for-inktober-i-focused-on-mental-illness-and-disorders/?page_numb=2 this is the link (if it works). That sketch caught me off-guard. This was me. I would run straight to danger if I thought I had a chance of getting a hug or recognition or ANYTHING that could make me feel lovable.
*** Long pause. For someone who's usually quick and free with words, I am stuck. I have all these emotions running around. That's part of the reason I wanted to make this post - to force myself to focus, get the emotions under control. And the strangest thing is why I'm so triggered!
This is TMI and possibly triggering. I'm sorry on both counts, but it's a big part of what consumes my life, so I have to address it.
My husband EXPECTS sex tonight. I'm no longer sick (barely recovered). It's been over a week since my crying jags from depression. No therapy, no medication, just it's been long enough, you should be over it by now. Given these facts, in my husband's view, my excuses have dried up and it's time to put out. Not that he'll do anything more than be a miserable grouch if I say no. Well, he also might try to keep me up all night talking about why I don't enjoy sex with him anymore. May I refer you back to the first sentence in this paragraph? Pay close attention to the word expects. ::: Nods ::: Yes. With no loving attitude, no attention paid to me in any intimate, friendly or passionate way, I am EXPECTED to perform for him so that he may have sexual pleasure tonight.
And, to me, the most offending part (another TMI warning) is that I have to *** just for him to be capable of performing. He will declare himself hard as a rock, but we get into bed and I look over and he's flaccid. So, I sigh. And I roll over towards him and I begin performing for him. Once, a decade ago, I told him that I enjoyed ***. That was when it was a gift. Now, it's part of the job assignment and I HATE it. I HATE HAVING to do it. I hate even more that I have to *** ALONG with *** to get him ready. AND ALL HE'S DONE WHILE I DO THIS IS MAYBE, IF I'M LUCKY, TOUCH MY BACK A LITTLE - AND ONLY IF I REMOVED MY SHIRT FIRST. That's all the stimulation I get. Because if I allow more, he's going ***. He enjoys it, so he thinks I should and gets pissed at me when I demure away from that.
So, I'm triggered. I'm triggered because he doesn't see MY needs, while complaining about his own. He doesn't see that I've told him over and over and over again that my sexual account is empty for lack of deposits of kindness and tenderness. And that it's been overdrawn by these expectations AND by his insistence at touching me THE ONE PLACE I don't want to be touched.
I'm further triggered because, while he may be my husband, and he may know ALL about my past, he doesn't understand that the order these things in my past happened has affected me and my ability to feel sexually available. What do I mean by that? I mean that I need to know that, to my husband at least, I am more than a walking vagina. That the essential me matters more than that small space of flesh used to identify my gender. That my value to him extends past what I can do for him sexually.
And, because it's been over a week (yes a week. I got the same crap from him after having a child or having a surgery - when can we, since you can't this will you at least do THAT for me?), he expects physical action. And, because my social barometer is completely non-functional and I have nothing to refute what he tells me, I feel I must believe him when he tells me that ALL men feel this way and that any man I was with would EXPECT sex regularly. And, I might as well stay with the donkey I know then run off, break up the family and find out he was right - that all men are intimacy-inhibited and that I'll be expected to perform against my preference for the sake of peace in the relationship.
I don't want to do 'my job' for him tonight. Not because I'm angry, not because I'm depressed, not even because I am having trust issues with him lately. It's because, like so many boyfriends before him, and the rapists I've survived (yes plural), his complete lack of tenderness or sensuality leaves me cold. It leaves me doubting myself.
The few times I've felt him reach out to me, when he thought I was asleep, he may touch some parts of my body, but it seems to me to be in passing and only on his way to my vagina. Like he thinks he's going to find some switch down there that he can flip and I will be READY. No, not READY, but READY!! Or, worse, he'll ***. This is the source of my lack of trust. This, he took without permission, then later in the relationship, he tried to coerce me into volunteering. He's tried this often enough, I had to finally tell him that the next attempt would result in my filing for divorce. THAT's how serious I am about my 'NO'.
But, he's raped me before to get that. Before we were married. Yes, I married him anyway. I believed the pleading, tear-filled promises that it would never happen again. What HE meant was that he would never RAPE me again. That didn't mean he wouldn't try to coerce, convince, guilt, beg, and nearly force his way past my boundary. He's been begging and trying to coerce again. And, at the same time, he's been especially nice to me around the children.
It seems to me that he's self-aware enough to be trying to get all the 'good-guy' credits he can so that if he pushes and I do leave him, it will shock everyone. The thing is, I'm telling my story here so I can practice telling it again. I'm learning to not be ashamed that I have a husband who'd rather poke the wrong hole than appreciate what I do offer (and offer willingly ANY time he shows me affection, tenderness, that other parts of my body have value). I'm teaching myself that it's OK to shine a light on what he wants to keep hidden as private.
So, I feel completely confused, completely unvalued, certainly unloved and I can't help but think of the men who raped me, sexually harassed me, treated me like my vagina couldn't even give me value. I can't help but think that I shared all this with my husband and he uses it against me instead of helping me heal and maybe learning that sex CAN be safe and fun and something more than just him poking me. Given that the men I had been with as a relationship before my husband were not exactly intimate, but one was very passionate, I am very unsure of my own attractiveness, my own ability, *, even my own desires! I know I'm straight, but beyond that, can't really tell my husband what pleases me.
AND, I can't even * to find out what does please me. He wants to watch and that makes me self-conscious. Then, I'm performing for HIS pleasure instead of exploring myself.
Before I met him, I was inhibited. I'd been in therapy over a year, trying to sort out how I could let a boss sexually harass me for years before putting a stop to it. I was trying to find out why my previous boyfriend was my pick, knowing he was completely unavailable and likely cheated on me. Why ALL my picks for partners were horrible, inappropriate, harmful and/or neglectful of me and my needs. And, when I told my therapist that I'd met someone, he was afraid for me. When I said I was quitting therapy and marrying the man, he flat out told me, 'You're not ready'.
And now I dread going home, because husband will be there. And he will expect sex tonight. And, because I said, 'let's go to bed early tomorrow night (had been up late two nights in a row), he now takes that as his invitation FROM me that we will definitely have sex tonight. Yes, that was enough for him.
Because, for hubby, either we are having sex or I better have a GOOD, MEDICALLY PROVABLE reason why not. Emotionally distant or unfulfilled doesn't even begin to qualify as a reason to say no.
And, I didn't get off the merry-go-round the last time it was this close to this position. And, we're back here quicker than I expected. And I'm just so tired of the cycle. And it really sucks that I may end up leaving my husband for sexual incompatibility. HE wants what he doesn't work for and I'm tired of doing all the work when I don't want it, only because he is my husband and he feels he has the right to expect. Yippie for me.
Gosh,Wife#2, this makes me so sad and angry. I hope that you are not offended by me putting my thoughts bluntly, but your husband is ridiculously full of *.
From what you wrote, it seems like everything he does sexually is coercive. I am happy that you threatened divorce if he tried anal again. I think that was a really good and important boundary for you to set.
No one is entitled to sex from anyone. If you never wanted to have sex of any kind with him again, then that would be your right as a person. You get to decide what happens with your body; no one else does. You do not have to stimulate him in any way whatsoever if you don't want to. :no:
If you *choose* to, then you definitely deserve to have your needs met as well, however that is defined by you. There are all kinds of lovers out there in the world. Some are selfish and entitled. Some are clueless. Some like to spend an hour on foreplay and take pride in giving their partner orgasms...The way your husband behaves is probably not uncommon, sadly, but it's not true that all men are like him. That's not even close to being true.
And seriously, he doesn't even give you privacy to masturbate? Even that has to be about what's in it for him? ???
I hope that this post makes sense. I feel very upset, because I care about you and hate to think that you are being treated so badly. :'(
What you have described is straight out sexual abuse and I'm really sorry you have been put in this position.
I found reading it very triggering.
When I read your early posts in this forum, I decided not to respond, because, from my point of view, you were describing sexual abuse, (though much less vividly), but you didn't seem to see what was happening as abuse, and I thought it best to not read or respond so as to not impose a perspective that might be unhelpful or harmful.
I hope you are okay with my saying it now.
I am so sorry, you don't deserve to be treated this way.
Wife 2 - my reaction is the same as radical's. I was - am - very triggered by all the detail and yet I know you need to get it out, for your healing but also to hear from others just how wrong it all is. That what you are going through IS sexual abuse. Your husband is very, very wrong and has some very strange ideas about what is and isn't normal.
QuoteWell, he also might try to keep me up all night talking about why I don't enjoy sex with him anymore.
Denying someone sleep is also abuse. He can talk about it in the morning. Keeping someone awake is a form of torture. I'm not exaggerating.
That's all I can say for now, I'm kind of overwhelmed. I'll try to write more later. :hug: You deserve much, much better treatment.
I wanted to come back to this, Wife2
I had to go for a walk. I didn't want to make you feel bad. I'm glad you wrote what you needed to, glad you felt safe to.
I wanted to say that you don't ever deserve to be treated this way. One of the saddest things about abuse can be the blindness to abuse that can be created by it. It's such a paradox, but so common.
I went to the picture you linked to. I understand that so well. It's a shocking image.
You deserve kindness, love, dignity, tenderness, intimacy, pleasure, warmth. to be able to explore and share your sexuality with someone who enjoys pleasing you and being pleased, who appreciates you. I'm sorry you haven't had that. Mutual sexual pleasure can be a real joy and solace, even when it's not that great, sometimes.
:hug: :hug: :hug: I expect working through this will cause pain and upheaval in the short term. I'm sorry.
I am so sorry that this triggered you all so much. I really, really am. Thank you, Three Rivers for editing, even though you were also triggered by this.
It's just so difficult when my instincts say that this is abusive, but I don't trust that instinct. Instead, I listen to him justify and tell me that it's really like this in most relationships. I don't believe that, but since you can't exactly talk about these things with other couples, I have no way of 'proving him wrong'.
Add that to my sad history of men either pushing past my boundaries or straight out taking advantage of me sexually and you get one messed up woman with no idea what a normal, healthy relationship actually works like. I have never had one. Which makes what he says seem like it might true, even when I don't believe it.
This leaves me so messed up in the head that I freeze. I don't know what to do or what to say or how to be. So, I retreat inside myself. I convince myself that, in many other ways, he's a good man. I do this in part because I went through with marrying him and having a child with him.
Last night, he did expect sex. But, he got so distracted by doing stuff for his hobby that, when I went to bed, he stayed up and kept at it. I laid there trying to figure out if I was relieved or if I was hurt that he could spend so much time with that (every night, I'm not exaggerating) that he accepted the consequence of no sex as worth it.
After I'd been in bed and asleep for a while, he came in and woke me up. Not for sex, but to talk about our pregnant dog. He gives her tons of attention and affection, always has. Now that she's pregnant with her first (only) litter, it's even more so. She's technically his dog. I love the little pooch, too - she's tender and affectionate and silly as can be. He wanted to bring her into our bed because he was worried about her. I said, fine.
He brought her in and she was her usual affectionate self. That bothered him because she wouldn't settle down and go to sleep (on his schedule). I was understanding, this was her first time in our room let alone on our bed. She was excited and unsure. So, within 20 minutes, he brought her back to her usual favorite sofa in the living room. By the time he came back to bed, I was asleep again. I have no idea how late that was.
By the time I did finally fall back asleep, I was flat out relieved that he'd got into other things and knew it was too late to ask for sex.
But, the sad truth is, I'm even more confused than yesterday. After all the times he's pointed out that he will NOT live in a sexless marriage, I know we are not done with this situation. So, his restraint last night was both relieving and unexpected. And I wonder what tonight will hold for us.
I'm also triggered, which is why I wrote this. Yes, I do need to hear from people who do have 'normal, healthy' marriages. I need to keep hearing that this is wrong, abusive even. That there are marriages out there where both partners WANT to build each other up, help each other be strong, love each other and bring pleasure to each other. I need to keep hearing this until I believe it. I need to keep hearing that I *do* deserve such a partner (because I don't believe it. I believe I got what I deserve, given some of the horrible choices I'd made in my youth).
I need to rediscover that woman who, early in the marriage, was ready to pack it all in and tell him unpleasant places to go when he's like this. I need to return to that woman who, just a few years ago, hired a lawyer and prepared for divorce. I need to BE that woman again, who could look into my husband's tear-filled eyes and tell him I knew his promises to change were lies. I start shaking in fear of what my life would hold if I allow myself to BE that woman again. Not fear of him - no. Just fear of the unknown. Fear of starting over, this time as a single parent. Fear of failing even worse than I'm failing now, and dragging my son along with me.
Wife#2, I am glad that you are able to talk about this here. I was a bit triggered by the original post, but I knew there was that danger going in. That is my responsibility.
Your husband's behavior definitely is abuse. I didn't initially name it as such only because I've had friends for whom the use of that word to describe their situations only made them feel shameful or defensive. But radical and Three Roses are right, and your instincts are right.
As to the question of whether or not your husband is a good man, he might have some good qualities and still be abusive to you. It's not an either/or situation. Even the most abusive people out there often have some likable qualities. I have had situations in my own life in which I have been confused by this, and given too much benefit of the doubt to abusers. It's only natural that this happens when we haven't learned that our feelings are valid. You are not the only one.
QuoteInstead, I listen to him justify and tell me that it's really like this in most relationships. I don't believe that, but since you can't exactly talk about these things with other couples, I have no way of 'proving him wrong'.
He is either lying or he believes that abuse is normal. Either way, he has a serious problem. It is not as he says. But you don't have to prove this to him or anyone in order to protect yourself. Again, you have every right to refuse what you do not want. You deserve so much better than this situation.
:hug:
As I was driving to work, I was thinking about this whole situation. It's still hard for me to accept that I'm being sexually abused by my husband. A man who is supposed to love me. Who I do love. It's also very hard for me to be ok with divorce. Not the least of which is my Catholic upbringing. Lax though it was (self-serving, my parents divorced when I was 12), most of the basic tenants were taught to me.
Anyway, I was thinking that it probably was a good idea to allow him his sexual reset last night. He's being much nicer (of course, he got his way). And I was able to get the sleep I needed to do this thinking.
What occurred to me is that we've had tons of fights, lots of arguments and uncountable discussions around this part of our marriage. The one thing I haven't done is to take the conversation logically from step A to step Z by asking questions and kind-of forcing him to answer honestly. What I mean is to turn the conversation when he starts it.
He usually starts with a complaint that boils down to, 'I'm tired of you saying no to me all the time. I have needs, you know, and I will NOT be in a sexless marriage.' Depending on the demanding nature of the complaint, I tend to justify myself by telling him AGAIN what has been going on with me and why I have said no. This type of scenario is why the 'medically provable' reasons started being required. If I couldn't prove it medically, I *should* just take some aspirin and get on with it.
Instead, I think next time (and there will be a next time), I will guide the conversation into why I don't want sex instead of why I say no. Asking HIM if he knows (as I've been telling him why for the last decade). Asking him if he understands *why* I feel the way I do. Then, seeing where the conversation goes based on those answers. But, asking HIM to see if he can explain to ME why his needs matter, but mine don't. To get him to put into words what his actions have been showing me, that I count but not as much as HE does. To maybe help him see that these expectations of me he's been having are really unfair if he won't even meet me half-way regarding MY needs.
Even if it doesn't really do any good, and I know that's likely, at least I may get him to hear his own words. Maybe it'll finally get through when he hears his own words saying that it isn't fair. Anyway, driving to work this morning, this all seemed really smart and worth doing.
I hope he listens. Mine never would. It took me leaving him to make him see how abusive he'd been. I wouldn't go back until he'd enrolled in an anger management class and seen a therapist on his own. To his credit he did both.
It's taken a few years but he is a much different man, even on what for him is a bad day. I just decided, "I don't care if he's coming with me, but I'm going to live in a different way." I would have gone on without him, my sanity and health were important enough to me that I could no longer subject myself to bad treatment.
Hi Wife#2
I wrote something in my journal recently that you might or might not be able to relate to. I want to share it with you in case it means something, if it doesn't, please just ignore it:
I considered saying with XXX for protection.
Where it all started:
To procure security of basic needs I've been willing to accept abuse. That's a powerful pattern my whole life.
Protection from predation, abuse from others, situations in which I have little or no power (to an extent), basic needs met, nutrition, a roof over my head, nutrition, medical care, the semblance of normality, the taste but not the reality of belonging, and sustaining injury to keep the facade going, which kills my confidence, defeats any ability to reach out ot others, keeps me stuck, and round and round it goes....
Three Roses - that's part of my dilemma. He's so much better of a man than he was even 10 years ago. That's a relative term, though. Is it enough? That's my debate inside my head.
Radical,
I think this is at the tap-root of all of us finding ourselves in abusive relationships. Security. The devil we do know in favor of the great, scary, insecure unknown.
The cliché's are filling my head. 'between a rock and a hard place' - only exists when both choices are not healthy. 'Catch-22' - when all options are harmful, trying to choose the least harmful. 'The devil I know' - when we know we're being abused, but we don't believe we can do any better on our own.
Thank you for sharing. It's very relevant. And poignant. I'm sorry that you do know about this, but grateful you are willing to share your experience to help me. Thank you! :hug:
QuoteThree Roses - that's part of my dilemma. He's so much better of a man than he was even 10 years ago. That's a relative term, though. Is it enough? That's my debate inside my head.
I'd like to clarify what I said previously. When I said, "It's taken a few years but he is a much different man," what I mean is he is no longer abusive in any way. He has genuine remorse for the way he used to treat me and the expectations he had of me. His instructor at anger management told the class that less than 25% of them would recover. Still, that's more than the 0% we usually assume. Best wishes to you for full awareness, healing and peace.
The opportunity came up again last night.
He started, early in the evening, with a dialogue about how marriage has an expectation that sex will be happening. And that one of the first questions a divorce lawyer will ask is - are you having sex regularly? With the implication that if sex is being denied, the denying partner is at fault for the divorce. Also, as he stated, that the only 'excuse' for not having sex is medical conditions such as cancer.
I posed the idea that sex in-and-of itself is NOT a requirement, that sex is the natural outflow of a healthy level of intimacy in a relationship. His answer was, 'Yes, of course. Still, sex *IS* expected regularly'.
He kept on his lecture for about half an hour. I let him shut me down because I really didn't want to be having this discussion with our son in the next room. I know hubby has no such qualms.
Earlier in the afternoon, hubby had become very irate that I had not done my 'chores' around the house the way or at the time he expected me to. He fussed at me enough that our son, in the back seat during this, was concerned. While I was out of the vehicle and they were in it, DS asked hubby about what was wrong. He told DS that he was very angry with me. I didn't answer hubby back angrily, I didn't answer as DS was in the vehicle and I had to drive.
Between these two events, I continued talking with hubby about unrelated things and hubby finally did get somewhat out of his sour mood. DS asked me quietly when we were alone - is Daddy not mad at you anymore? I answered, I don't know, but I don't think so.
Then, I get the 'sex is expected' lecture. I've heard it before. It comes out whenever hubby thinks I've been 'neglecting my wifely duties'. No mention is made about how my needs almost never get met. If I bring that up, I'm told that I'm drifting off topic and he doubles down on HIS needs and SEX being a REQUIREMENT of marriage.
I was just not up to making the argument as I should have:
That my needs matter, too.
That if he can't / won't meet my needs then he can wait on his own needs.
That SEX is not a requirement of marriage. It is a good barometer of the health of the relationship, but it is NOT a REQUIREMENT. SEX is the natural outflow of that healthy intimacy.
What is he going to do about it if I say no more sex? What about those statements when we nearly divorced about how he 'would do anything to keep you', 'has nowhere to go', 'will change however you want me to, just don't go'. What if I call his bluff?
Because I'm ready to move in that direction again. Especially after I went to bed - he'd yelled at me, said I was just like my uBPD mother because I waited to get the grocery shopping done, he'd told our son he was angry with me, but not about what, he had lectured me for what felt like an hour but was probably only half an hour. There was this exchange:
Him: What, we're not having sex again, tonight?
Me: No, we're not.
Him: Why not, are you still angry with me?
Me: No, I'm not angry at all. I did all I could last night, I need tonight to recover. I've told you I need at least every other night and why.
Him: This is ridiculous. Couldn't you at least TRY? I mean, really.
Me: No. I'm going to sleep. Good night.
After that <ahem> loving exchange, given the day we had together, I really don't want to ever have sex with him again. He really doesn't get it. He really believes that just because I wear his ring, I should submit to him and perform for him and allow whatever he wants sexually. This ring, however, doesn't guarantee me anything. Not anything at all. All the benefits are for him.
This is wanting to become a full-on rant (if it isn't already). I'm just so fed up with this. But, I knew if I allowed the conversation to go on, it would go on all night. I didn't submit, I didn't cave and I didn't agree to anything. For those reasons, I know this isn't done. He won't quit until I either submit and allow for the sex he wants OR we get into a major fight because I won't.
Checked my credit card. I have options if this is how it plays out. I don't have to put up with that. Moving on a stormy Monday evening would suck, but not as bad as allowing him to believe he has the right to speak to me like that - veiled threats of lawyers, divorce and misery if we don't start having sex more often. Bring it on. I'm calling his bluff. I already have the number of a lawyer if he wants to play that way. I do NOT have to put up with being treated as a servant. I do NOT OWE him sex because of this ring. I'll give the ring back (again) if that's the case.
Oh, my God. I just realized something. I know why he's getting so brave as to make those veiled threats. Our granddaughter will begin coming to our house every afternoon after school now. So, he believes that I won't deny HER a place to be safe while her mother works, so I won't kick him out, so he's not going anywhere, so he can assert is demands.
:: nods :: Yes, that is where this has been coming from lately. Because HE made a promise to our daughter that her daughter could stay with us after school and he knows I know how seriously he takes his promises, he's taking the 180 degree wrong approach. He thinks I'll let him stay and treat me that way rather than hurt our daughter's feelings or make him break his promise. WRONG MONKEY! :: Nods again ::: Yes, I know how to approach this tonight. If HE doesn't want to break HIS promise to daughter & granddaughter, he needs to bite his lip and SHUT UP about what I owe him (nothing) and think about what he could do to make me WANT to stay married to him - thus not kick him out. : Nods yet again ::
Now, will I actually do that or will I cave again and allow his reset so he'll back up off my back and let me breathe? I really, really hope I'll use my spine and call his bluffs and let him know that I don't owe him a single flipping thing. I do not have any rights to abuse or neglect, but I don't OWE him anything. Please, let me be strong and remember this tonight!
https://speakoutloud.net/
I hope if you choose to read the above site, it gives you information that makes you feel empowered and less alone. It's about coercive control and psychological abuse of all kinds, but her research and focus is on women coercively controlled in marriage.
I don't want to make things harder for you. I don't think there would be any way back to feeling that the behaviours you describe are "not so bad" after reading the articles. There is hope though, she also interviews former offenders who gained insight and changed for their marriage.
Wow. Radical, thank you for that link.
I printed out that article. I don't know if I'll have the courage to follow through with my thoughts, but I think I'm going to work with them a few days, reading this article.
You're right. It's so easy to get sidetracked from the abuse by just saying, 'He's not hitting me', or 'It's not as bad as this story/article/test/whatever online.' Still, we're minimalizing abuse to protect the abuser more than ourselves. The 51% rule can't apply as long as I make excuses for him. As long as I allow that there are 'good days' when we can talk and laugh - allowing me to shrug off the days when he's belittling me within earshot of our son and still requesting sex like it's some task on my to-do list later that night.
Thank you again.
Wife#2, I think he uses sex to control you. I wonder if there's more to this and he is probably overall a controlling man. You might want to Google Narcissist or Gaslighting. He's telling you things that are not true to keep having control over you. He could also have a sex addiction, because it's not normal to want sex every day, especially if the partner says no. I wonder if he threatens you to go have sex with another woman if you're not willing to. Is he?
This is so sad and abusive.
:hug: to you.
Lingurine
Lingurine,
Yes, I've heard the threats that he'd get sex somewhere if I keep saying no. I've heard the lectures on how prostitution is necessary as long as there are marriages where the man is not getting his needs met. And, for that reason, it should be kept around and even legalized. And, further, how having that option legal could save marriages - he gets his sex, she doesn't have to 'put out' and the prostitute makes a living.
We had a long debate just before I saw the lawyer. He'd told me he doesn't go in public with me anymore because he keeps looking at other women and lusting. I told him that was a self-control problem, he could have a sex addiction and that lusting after other women IS cheating and sets him up for disappointment.
Very early in the marriage, he would say, 'I love you, I'm in love with you and I lust you'. I told him to stop with the lust part, because it negates what went before. I tried to explain to him that lust is selfish and cares only about pleasing itself. Lust and love can't co-exist. He never did believe me. He stopped saying lust so much, but his behaviors still show it. It was proven when he told me about lusting after unknown women in the local big-box stores. Just because he saw them, he imagined doing things to them I won't allow. He told me all about this as an attempt to shame and guilt me back into sexual activity with him. When it didn't work, our marriage became worse.
When he had to agree that I had solid medical reasons for no sex, he still wants me to 'satisfy' his sexual needs in other ways. It's still about him being pleased and sated. It is not about mutually coming together. The few times he's made efforts to initiate and please me, he always (I wish I was exaggerating) violates my bedroom boundary. For this reason, I tell him I don't want him to do that. Then, he uses my refusal as his excuse to not do any touching at all. I've told him hugs are void when he gropes me. Now, no hugs. He's told me he doesn't enjoy kissing because of his false teeth. So, no more kissing. Yet, if I wish to back away from some part of the activity HE craves, I'm being slack in my marital duties.
Yes, I am being abused. I hate to call it that, but that doesn't make it any less true. My husband abuses me. And he's preparing again, because I haven't been little miss compliant lately. And he's begun his lectures again. And the judgmental attitudes have returned, as well as the sexist comments that he finds hilarious and calls me too sensitive for not laughing with him.
:fallingbricks:
Wife#2, the good thing is, you're talking freely about it. That is a good start really, you can come out of the FOG now, expand your horizon a little and practise to put clear boundaries.
Do you know how I know that I'm abused? When I say no to someone and they become angry, mad, in rage even. That's a major red flag for me. People who just want what they want when they want it, are exhausting to me.
You deserve better. You deserve a life with joy and laughter, grief about real things, not over abuse.
Lots of wisdom for you
Lingurine
Quote from: Lingurine on April 21, 2017, 09:15:01 PM
Do you know how I know that I'm abused? When I say no to someone and they become angry, mad, in rage even. That's a major red flag for me.
That was the part that confused me for so long. He doesn't get mad and he certainly doesn't rage. He just goes into lecture mode (something my father did to me often - no anger, just a disappointed lecture). Hubby kept me up many a night 'trying to save our marriage'. Because I said no. I didn't see that as abusive then, but now I see it for the manipulation it is. The next time, I have a choice - stay up all night listening to his lectures or give in so I can get my precious sleep. At least that's how I saw it for many of the early years of this marriage.
You're right, I still have a lot of FOG to clear up. I'm in a better place than I was years ago. I already have a lawyer's name. I already have the means to move out if needed - taking our son with me. I already have a daycare lined up if needed. I check with them every few months, just to be sure. This helps me have courage to stand up for myself if NO is the answer I want to give. Helps. Doesn't assure yet. Also, doesn't assure me the strength to walk away - yet.
I'm re-reading this whole thread to put it back into my head what I've discovered, learned, begun to understand. I'm going to need this tonight. It's been more than 24 hours since his last reset (I can't even call it sex anymore. It's HIS reset, HIS relaxation, MY job). It's time to make some decisions.
I needed the refresher. The reminder of that wonderful article - to re-read it. The hugs from all of you as I come to terms with the fact that this is not sexual 'politics', it's abuse. He is abusive towards me. He thinks it is his right as a husband. I'm trying to brace myself to make this the time when I make it clear - no, it isn't his right. My body does not belong to him. Anymore than his bank account belongs to me.
Those who pray, pray for me. I'm going to need it tonight. And thank you!
:hug: to you.
:hug:
:hug: All the love and hugs and payers and caring thoughts I can muster.
You're so worth it, and if your husband is worth it, he will come to see that too.
:hug: Thinking of you. ♡
I almost had to laugh last night. He had been Mr. Grumpy McGrumppants because he had a horrible day. It was a horrible day. I felt bad for the fellow - it was just one stoopid thing after another going wrong.
So, when we went to bed, he knew I wasn't feeling the love. He apologized for his grumpiness, but understood, you don't get to grump at me all evening and say, 'I'm sorry' and then still get your reset. He has at least figured that much out.
I sincerely appreciate all the hugs and support! I was humbled and grateful when I saw all of them. Each of you is a treasure in my heart! I'll carry them into tonight, when I'll probably need them. Because I am still in the same deficit situation and he will still expect his reset at some point, likely tonight.
This post came up, I thought it was new o
This post came up as a recently updated topic. So apologies for commenting as I hope things have settled.
This is powerful reading Wife#2, and yes, familiar. I cannot add anything that has not already been said.
Thank you for sharing. And thank you all for boosting certainty of having experienced this form of abuse. Xo
It's OK, Contessa.
I kind of needed to see this again.
What's changed: I was clear, blatant and definitive in my explanation of why his reset is happening so rarely in the past few years. I made it absolutely clear. When he complained about those unmet needs, I reminded him that I've spent over a decade without my needs being met so I didn't have the appropriate amount of sympathy for his situation. That I would listen to him describe himself as neglected when he's faced a decade of it. Though, he knew as well as I knew that I'd never make him go that long.
What's remained the same: He's still willing to use veiled threats of 'getting it somewhere else', to which I reply - go ahead, but let me know because I'm divorcing you if you cheat. Wouldn't it be better for all concerned if you just started meeting MY needs more often? ::: Crickets ::: Days go by and it's back to the same conversation all over again.
Having this thread re-appear is helpful to me by putting things back into perspective. That was May. It's now October. Very little has changed in a positive way. Except that I now speak up for my needs when he starts complaining. And he's getting fewer resets because I'm feeling less obliged to perform.
Quote from: Wife#2 on October 04, 2017, 12:30:03 PM
I now speak up for my needs when he starts complaining. And he's getting fewer resets because I'm feeling less obliged to perform.
While I'm sorry for all that hasn't changed, :hug: :hug: for that,
congratulations for speaking up for your needs :cheer: :applause: :cheer: and for feeling less obliged to perform :cheer: :cheer:. Those are two big steps imo.
Thank you for the hugs and the cheers. I needed them both very much today! :hug:
What Blueberry says. I couldn't find the right words.
You are most definitely a trooper Wife#2
:hug: