Out of the Storm

It's time I wrote FOO letters: to F, M, SIL2, B2, B1 not necessarily in that order. I do intend to send these letters. My goal is to finally as an adult-on-the-road-to-recovery express anger (instead of fleeing), set limits, give them and me one last chance before I go VVVVLC or NC with those not willing to work on contact with me under my conditions.

The recommended route of basically saying nothing and going NC doesn't seem to be working for me. I realise now that my various addictive habits, strengthened in last little while, and my depression of the last weeks, which is paralysing me, are there because I am denying myself this wish to finally say something, come what may.

I do welcome feedback esp. when I'm JADE-ing too much or setting myself up for too much emotional hurt / injury from FOO.  I'm especially interested in feedback from those of you who feel they have moved out of the FOG and actually pinpointing a sentence or words where I'm starting to set myself up for emotional hurt from FOO. This will enable me to review and change my letters before sending them.

Thanks very much for taking any time for this! Nobody should feel they have to read letters to all my FOO members.

Dear SIL2,

Of course I'm writing to your h too, but in future I'd really appreciate if you both could be honest in advance.

In retrospect it was not only bad for me to be staying with you at C F but also undoubtedly for you. You had it all set up for you and h and the girls to have your own place to retreat to, to get away from extended family and then, bloody *, I got dumped on you instead.

So I apologize for ending up staying with you and not being able to say in advance unequivocally that I wanted and needed a different solution. I did try. And especially I asked your h if he was OK with me staying with you all at F C. He said I was very welcome. This was apparently a lie, but it is not my fault that he did not tell me the truth on this issue. It is also not my fault that he could not say "No way!!" to (his and my) M. It was her suggestion putting me there. Your irritation ought to have been directed towards her for suggesting it and/or him for not setting limits. Certainly not towards me.

Some of your behaviour towards me in those few days was absolutely unacceptable. You kept dropping "mental health issues" at regular intervals in conversation at the party at the R  C. Do you think you'd be happy if people constantly mentioned "physical disability" if you were sitting in a wheelchair? Or worse if you had a child with some impairment, would you be happy if somebody kept focussing on that? I don't think so.  If I want to talk about my own health, I do, but it's my decision to talk about it with whom I want, how I want, using the words I want. It's nobody else's business.

You also were the only one in the family to suggest to me I might be heading back home before I had even thought that far myself. I know you like to be organised but in future leave me to come to my own conclusions and make my own decisions where you and your family are not directly impinged upon! I'm sure with all your and h's good parenting skills (really, I'm being honest here), you would have managed to work out what to say to your DDs. Note I say "directly impinge on": it is not your job to try and change me.

I strongly object to being treated as family scapegoat. I know you don't like or get on well with your MIL. But it is not acceptable to dump your criticism of her / bad feelings about her on me just because there is a family taboo on criticising her. I am NOT my M.

Oh darling,  :hug:, I wouldn't send that letter. Nor would I be giving any FOO member or their partners "one last chance" unless they broached the subject with me first -- which I expect to happen around the time * freezes over.

If you feel as though you're being treated as FOO SG, you undoubtedly are. That means smear campaigns are circulated and everyone believes the worst of you. You can object all you like, and ask for better treatment, but whatever move you make will be held against you. I'm so sorry to break this to you but it was my experience as the SG who kept going back, bloodied and beaten, to give them and me that one last chance. It just made things worse, which at the time I naively thought was impossible.

How about write your letters here, over and over, until you've said all you need to say? Or send them, prepared for the distinct possibility that they will quickly move from VVVVLC to NC with you, which is what happened to me in my last effort at one last chance.

The idea of a FOO SG setting limits or conditions is an oxymoron. Your role is to be kicked about and trampled and lied about and blamed for everything that goes wrong, plus who knows? Mine could well be making jokes about my abundant sufferings -- if they ever talk about me at all. Thing is, I lost the lot and the breach can never be healed. I would prefer to see you gradually setting boundaries without putting anything in writing, instead of losing all your family as suddenly and dreadfully as I did.

I agree with Candid, I would not send that letter. In fact I would probably not include a sister-in-law in any family of origin communications.

But writing letters that you have no intention of sending can be very cathartic, and this is a supportive place to do it. ;)

Thank you, ThreeRoses for your comment. Between reading Candid's comment and coming back here, I got as far as thinking of leaving SIL out. Originally I thought I'd have to send her her own email because a) the family blow-out in the summer was precipitated by her and b) I thought I've read in many places including at OOTF that you're meant to communicate with the person in question and not via somebody else. So if I wrote just to her h, my B, I would be triangulating and being FOGGY and setting a bad example to FOO, as in hoping they'll overlook the fact that I'm communicating in an inappropriate i.e. dysfunctional manner. If you ask me what I myself think, then that is: Why should I tie myself in knots to communicate in a 100% emotionally healthy, non-dysfunctional way when the rest of FOO - all supposedly sane and normal - can't communicate in a healthy way either? As in expecting perfectionism from myself while letting FOO off the hook in multiple ways.

For both of you, Candid and 3Roses, if you care to read, I have done years of cathartic exercises in therapy of all sorts and I have never got to the end of this stuff. I don't know how to say all the types of therapy i've done in English, so I won't bother, but I know that some are 'accredited' forms, which do work even for traumatised people (complex, like us).

Maybe as FOO SG (this is me, no question, tho B1 spent part of his life as this as well, but not as an adult) and as the person I am with my personality and experiences and will and wishes and beliefs (and whatever else make up an individual) I'll never rest until I take this last step? Maybe I need it in order to break free, internally? Rather than hanging on, hoping and wondering.

As a friend of mine (not traumatised, but nonetheless with incredible understanding of emotional issues and good knowledge of me and what I've been through with my FOO) suggested: sounds as if I need to get angry at FOO and direct this anger towards them  rather than fleeing, which is what I have done up till now.
That doesn't mean that this friend is right, nor that I'm discounting your feedback.

I guess I'll take the whole topic to therapy next week. In the meantime I may write some more cathartic letters. If I'm not considering sending them, then I don't need to expend energy on walking a tightrope while writing. I can just go and feel really properly angry.

QuoteIf I'm not considering sending them, then I don't need to expend energy on walking a tightrope while writing. I can just go and feel really properly angry.

Yes! You can say things exactly as you want, without all of the * politeness. :D

Quote from: Blueberry on April 21, 2017, 09:23:11 PM
Why should I tie myself in knots to communicate in a 100% emotionally healthy, non-dysfunctional way when the rest of FOO - all supposedly sane and normal - can't communicate in a healthy way either?

No reason. TBH, from having tried so many times to communicate my distress to FOO, I don't believe there's any way you can put things that won't backfire on you. As to letting them off the hook, they were never on it. They don't care. As scapegoat you're the one squirming on the hook, same as I am. You could write the filthiest, most enraged letters to each of them and they'd just toss them out. You could write placatory, please-understand-me letters and they'd do the same with those.

QuoteI have done years of cathartic exercises in therapy of all sorts and I have never got to the end of this stuff.

Me neither. In fact, I've yet to see anyone on the forum who's "got to the end of this stuff". What I feel towards my FOO now is outrage. Outrage at Mother who set the whole thing in motion; outrage at my siblings who apparently cast me off without a hint of regret and at one of the lowest points in my life; outrage at myself for letting things go on so long, for continuing to have that one last try. My last try was what I call The Most Horrible Event, a family 'mediation' which was more like a pack rape. It took me a long time to haul myself back up from that and now I couldn't go back even if I wanted to. They have made it clear what they think of me; I actually believe they could pass me starving on a street corner and say: "She got what she deserved."

Quoteas the person I am with my personality and experiences and will and wishes and beliefs (and whatever else make up an individual) I'll never rest until I take this last step? Maybe I need it in order to break free, internally? Rather than hanging on, hoping and wondering.

I can only tell you that the single biggest regret of my life was organising that 'mediation'. I went there with great hope in my loving heart, and I got mobbed. Nsis declined to attend because it wasn't about her, but both parents and two other sibs all had horrible things to say about me. I was caught so off-guard in horror and astonishment that I said nothing in my own defence. Went in with brunette hair and about six weeks later it was completely white.

QuoteI need to get angry at FOO and direct this anger towards them  rather than fleeing, which is what I have done up till now.

If your goal is to put a rocket up them then walk away for ever, I applaud you but I can't see what you would gain by it, other than having finally had your say. What bothers me is I get the impression you're hoping they will see how they've treated you, say they're sorry, and you can have good, healthy relationships with each of them or most of them. I think it far more likely, as you say you were definitely the scapegoat, that what you'll get from them instead is the kind of anger, nastiness, contempt and ultimately ostracism I got from my FOO.

There's a good saying, living well is the best revenge. I can't say I'm doing that. Apart from the outrage, there's a lot of grief. When FOO departed it left a great void in me, one I know can never be filled. If I had my time over, with the knowledge and understanding I have now, I would a) like myself better; and b) have continued contact with two of my sibs, setting boundaries for myself but not making anything explicit to them. A bit of mystery and dignity are musts for scapegoat survival.

Candid, thank you sooo much for writing such detail.  :bighug:

I've read your post now carefully a few times and think your message is finally sinking in. I feel I would tie myself in knots if I tried to comment more. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate all your thoughtful remarks, and your willingness to describe The Most Horrible Event (which you've mentioned before by name without telling us what it is, and now you have. Thank you.) 

Brunette to white in 6 weeks. Very telling. Poor, poor Candid.   :hug:

"What bothers me is I get the impression you're hoping they will see how they've treated you, say they're sorry, and you can have good, healthy relationships with each of them or most of them." This is what I hoped and believed until the blow-up last summer. I'm trying to get out of that mindset now. I suppose I need to give myself the time to do so, even if it takes another 3 years? Last email contact from me to my Bs was: "I'll get back to you in a few weeks?/months? (don't even remember which) on the Family Celebration but for now all I want is to be left in peace." They have left me in peace, apart from sending Xmas cards, which didn't bother me either way. But as you say, they probably don't give a * that I haven't contacted them even though more than a few months have passed. So I can stop expecting perfectionism from myself in this respect. This is a Very New Thought.

So instead of finally getting to 'have my say', I should stop the PD dance and just sit down and pick up the pieces of my life again without all them FOOs and continue fitting the pieces together as best I can?

I'm kind of relieved to hear that I'm not the only one who's not "got to the end of this stuff", and kind of sad for you, and kind of disappointed to hear that it doesn't seem to work out that way, that we get to the end of it. Not only do we carry our burdens for life but they bite us too. (Thinking of little demons with sharp teeth in the burden-sacks we carry on our backs.)

OK, that's really all I can write now. I am of course writing this in reply to you as much for myself as for anybody.

Quote from: Blueberry on April 22, 2017, 07:56:18 PM
I'm kind of relieved to hear that I'm not the only one who's not "got to the end of this stuff", and kind of sad for you, and kind of disappointed to hear that it doesn't seem to work out that way, that we get to the end of it.

I see people here posting the :yahoo: and  :cheer: icons after going NC, and saying how great life is now, and I wonder... especially when it's new. It's maladaptive, in evolutionary terms, to walk away from the 'tribe' who raised you and were there from the beginning of your life. I feel for you trying over and over to get love where you're offered only contempt, because that was my story. The conclusion of the Most Horrible Event, when my father and the male 'mediator' shook hands, was that I would start attending the weekly FOO dinners again. I agreed to that only in order to get out of that room. The expected two-hour session had gone on all day. It was like fending off a rapist for hours then realising there's no way out, being utterly exhausted and making the let's-get-this-over decision. (I had to do that too while still in my teens.) My sister called the next day and I told her I'd got the impression they would all be happier if I walked in front of a bus. She then agreed to tell our parents I'd backed out of the agreement. Mother was by far my worst enemy that day, shedding crocodile tears as she wailed "but I love Candid!" or "I love Candid, BUT..." in an attempt to disguise the fact that she'd finally become overt.

QuoteNot only do we carry our burdens for life but they bite us too. (Thinking of little demons with sharp teeth in the burden-sacks we carry on our backs.)

That's a cute analogy. I do, however, think there's a way to lighten the burdens and de-fang the demons. If you can pull it off I will consider the Most Horrible Event at least made a positive difference somewhere.

Have you seen any of Karyl McBride's work? Her book is Will I Ever Be Good Enough? McBride had a narcissistic mother but was able to maintain a relationship with her by taking the adult role, setting boundaries, and basically understanding that her mother couldn't help it. Treating her like a naughty child. I can't remember what McBride wrote about her father, but I think she probably had him on board. Even so, what I would wish for you and your loving heart is that you can retain FOO relationships on your own terms. That means no letters detailing unacceptable behaviours (write them here) but knowing deep down
I'm stronger than that
I'm better than that
Here they go again
I can laugh this off. That'll really annoy them!
... and whenever you sense they're getting to you, you get up and walk.

You'll probably have to work up to that. In the meantime you can relax and do exactly as you please. Send special-occasion cards or don't. Call them or don't. When accusations fly, say: "Yeah, I did that and I enjoyed it" or even "I did that because I really don't like you". It's all guilt-free. You can have fun with it and maybe turn the tables as long as you want and expect nothing but bad stuff from them.

Your loving heart is your biggest handicap here. Save it for other people in your life and give FOO what they say they expect of you.

The following is what I got out of bed thinking, and even if it is not quite what Candid is suggesting, it is a quantum leap in my processing. So how about:

Dear F, M, B1 and B2,
_              _        _
BLANK brain.

OK, 'blank brain' is not what I thought about getting out of bed, what I actually had in mind was a letter heralding VLC. With terms 1, 2 and 3. The idea of writing this letter got me out of bed, which  is a good thing, but it doesn't mean I should send this letter, thereby probably exposing myself too much as usual. Even if it was really toned down compared to the one at the top of the thread. It really was to be along the lines of "This is not negotiable".

The important thing for me is: I'm getting there.   :cheer:  And I will get where I need to be.

Of course you will!! The people on this forum who are backing you to the hilt vastly outnumber your ridiculous FOO + ring-ins.

You didn't belong in that family, Blueberry. Do you know the story of the Ugly Duckling? She was shunned and ridiculed and pecked at by the ducks around her until one day she saw her reflection in the pond and realised she was a beautiful swan.

You go, girl. The beautiful swans of your FOC here are all right with you.

Thanks so much Candid. You're giving me even more ways to think this.
Of course I know the story of the Ugly Duckling. In fact, I'm sure M read it to us. Of course up until now I haven't  realised that I'm just waiting to turn into that beautiful swan.  :spooked:  Very difficult to write that, sounds so vain. But I'm leaving it there.

Yeah, my feathers are a bit bedraggled and dirty and I think swans over 60 would be quite rare. Nonetheless, the analogy stands. Perhaps it's more appropriate to think of that other well-known saying, it's not easy to soar like an eagle when you were raised among turkeys. But you need to get away because you're a threat to them and their lies.

blueberry, if i may jump in here.  i agree with candid.  making contact only sets us up to be hurt, no matter what we might say.

i have spent many, many months obsessing on wanting to tell my ex off, expose him for what he truly is to all those people who think he's so wonderful, and generally say everything to him and everyone else that i've held back in the past.  same with my narc therapist and daughter.  i came to the conclusion after gathering info from here and other places, that my obsession with that is just another way i hurt myself because of them.

van der kolk calls it 'revisiting'.  others have called it letting those people live rent-free in your head.  whatever one wants to call it, continuing to stay connected to those people through our thoughts and feelings, or thru some sort of communication is a way that we continue the abuse they have begun. 

these people play a game, and it is one we can't win, because they're the ones who are in control of it, and will continue to change the rules without our knowing.  we can never get the satisfaction or contentment we so long for because they are always keeping us on edge.  just like you writing a letter and wondering if it's ok to send.  you're the one suffering with it, not any of them.

our best recourse is to turn our focus onto ourselves and our recovery.  you may need to write all that anger out (i've had anger journals for various people in my lives that was nothing but filled with every hateful, hurtful, terrible thing i could think of toward them.  when i filled the notebook, i immediately walked out to the trash outdoors.  it was toxic venom i'd gotten out of myself toward them, and i didn't need it dirtying up my home.), focusing on the people with whom you're angry so as to get it out of you.  physical expressions can be helpful, like beating your bed.  i've even broken things that were connected to various people - that felt especially good!

i've noticed for myself, that the very horrendous hatred i had toward my ex has diminished over time, and is going into more neutral territory.  same with everyone else.  continued work while being nc has helped me get to the point where i'm not letting them overrun my mind as much any more.  that is truly a relief.

my best to you with this, blueberry.  it's not easy, to say the least.  with time, patience with yourself, and focused energy away from them, you'll get a modicum of relief.  it can be disturbing, make you feel uneasy at times, but i do believe that with practice it will become easier.  it did for me.   i don't need to be hurt anymore, period, not by thoughts, words, or deeds.  big hug to you. 

sanmagic, you certainly may jump in here! That's what I asked for, compassionate people with experience. Thank you for detailing your experience with those thoughts of wanting to tell Abusers and PDs off.

Thanks to Candid's wonderful and caring words and thoughts and my reading on here and OOTF half the night,  by this morning I'd actually come to the conclusion that I'm not going to write any letters to FOO. I may still write some getting-the-anger/pain/speechlessness-out-of-my-system letters and post them here, but I won't be sending any of that. I already feel some relief and calm, and today at least I have more energy for daily life. Probably because I've finally made a decision on this instead of wasting energy humming and hawing.
For the moment I'm remaining VLC / LC, not even announcing NC. Just leaving as is, knowing that if FOO especially parents come up with: "it is soooo long since we had proper contact. We have no idea why...", that I will then reiterate my demand  for VLC. And in the meantime I will be changing my own focus. I think my T will be going  :cheer:  :cheer: tomorrow too.

Candid, you're right. Hard as it is for me to say/think/write/believe, I have a loving heart, which I've been wasting on FOO.  Thank you for pointing out my loving heart to me. My pets know about my loving heart. I think some of my special needs students have felt it too. Fellow patients in in-patient settings or retreats too. (Not in a romantic way.) I have kind of worried that I don't feel love towards my 7 year old godson, with whom I have regular contact. He's the son of a good friend, nothing to do with FOO. Maybe that'll come when I stop wasting it on FOO. 

I've actually had two Disastrous Visits to FOO within the last 5 years. I can't say which was the Most Horrible Event - where I was sooo dissociated I didn't pick up much of what was going on or where I was strong enough to hardly dissociate much but felt and realised much more.  You're right Candid. That's totally enough. I don't need a Third Horrible Event, even if from far away geographically.

I haven't allowed any phone contact since September and that's been accepted. I must say, that's a total relief. I'm much more relaxed at home now, well 'relaxed' is going overboard. I'm less stressed out and tense. 

In some ways I'm definitely living better than in early adulthood and right up till when I 'collapsed' at about age 30. I'm now approaching 50... 

Thanks very much to both of you, Candid and sanmagic. :bighug:     :bighug:   :yourock: (both of you)

 :yourock: right back atcha!  the proof is in the pudding.  sounds like your mind and body have given you feedback on your decision.  yay for you, blueberry!

HI there, adding my two cents.  I have dabbled in the thought of trying to "right my wrong" by getting FOO to understand and help me.  Unfortunately in my case my FOO are so seriously screwed up that it is just a waste of my energy.  I think the hardest concept for me is that these were their problems, that they inflicted on me.  I was young and vulnerable.  I wasted a lot of time trying to "fix" things, which for me meant to get validation from FOO.  Even though their behaviour was beyond despicable, actually illegal they take no responsibility for it.  Interacting with them only keeps me more locked into the cycle.  I have not gone NC (officially) but in my head I try to separate them from me.  The hardest part is realizing it really IS them, not me as I have always believed.  Letting go of them trying to validate my experience and validating it by myself is very empowering although I'm not that great at it, I have flashes of insight at times.  I just choose not to interact because I know every interaction is an opportunity for them to have a go at me, no matter what I say. I know this is not particularly concrete information about whether you should send a letter or not, for me I can just say they would find a way to use it against me, they are not rational, they are barely even human beings, sorry blathering on...

Quote from: sanmagic7 on April 24, 2017, 06:01:44 PM
these people play a game, and it is one we can't win, because they're the ones who are in control of it

The control they have is that we yearn for healthy relationship with them, and their game is to withhold good stuff and mete out bad. The only way we can have a win is if we stop caring about healthy relationship and treat them as they've deserved. I don't mean NC, because no one wins at that; I mean we have to give up the idea of a Loving Mother (or whoever) and have secure boundaries and self-respect if we're going to relate to them at all. They thrive on us going back asking for understanding and raking over the stuff that's hurt us in the past. It gives them great delight to trot out the vivid imagination and I don't remember lines and watch us crumble.

Not that I had time to do that. I needed to be away from them in order to have a shred of self-respect, and I needed help such as this site to see through the FOG. It took too long because I didn't want to believe my mother hated me so much, just kept begging for understanding. I think I could have continued to see my FOO if I hadn't called the 'mediation' and hadn't expected anything of them. And I'd like to see our Blueberry sufficiently self-centred to withstand the slings and arrows of her family until such time as she decides they're simply not worth the trouble.

Quote from: Blueberry on April 24, 2017, 07:23:54 PM
I'm not going to write any letters to FOO. I may still write some getting-the-anger/pain/speechlessness-out-of-my-system letters and post them here, but I won't be sending any of that. I already feel some relief and calm, and today at least I have more energy for daily life.

:yahoo:

QuoteI'm remaining VLC / LC, not even announcing NC. Just leaving as is, knowing that if FOO especially parents come up with: "it is soooo long since we had proper contact. We have no idea why...", that I will then reiterate my demand  for VLC.

No need to demand, Blueberry. You just consistently limit them to what you want. I believe you can block particular phone numbers, if you want to.

Here's to our loving hearts!  :phoot: :chestbump:

Quote from: silentrhino on April 25, 2017, 12:34:32 AM
Interacting with them only keeps me more locked into the cycle.  I have not gone NC (officially) but in my head I try to separate them from me. 

That's the way, silent rhino. In time you may be able to have relationships with them that are on your terms.

QuoteThe hardest part is realizing it really IS them, not me as I have always believed. 

I know. Weird, aint it? We'd rather believe we're horrible people than that they are. Here's another loving heart who needs a big dose of self-love.

QuoteLetting go of them trying to validate my experience and validating it by myself is very empowering although I'm not that great at it,

Keep going, rhino!

QuoteI just choose not to interact because I know every interaction is an opportunity for them to have a go at me...

Yes. When you're so strong in self-esteem that their "goes" at you no longer have any effect, you could choose to interact with them again. But why would you bother? :Idunno:

i don't know if i could ever get to a place where when my daughter jabs at or disrespects me it will have no effect.  mother's heart and all that.  that's why nc has been my choice with her.  maybe no winners, but much less pain, grief, worry, hurt, etc. 

the same goes for the others, like my ex.  too much manipulation, too much emotional distress, too much confusion.  i just don't want to live my life in such a state anymore, not even for little bits of time.    i don't need it.  i felt like i was cleaning house when i went nc with these people, just don't need to deal with them on any level anymore.  i've got my own stuff to think about without having them pop in on me with their b.s. every so often.

i guess it works differently for everyone.  some people can have limited contact and are ok with it, and i'm glad for them.     the people in my life, no.  my folks are dead, so i don't know what that might have been like if they'd still been alive.   that's what makes recovery so personal and individual.  we make the choices that are best for us, even if they might not work for someone else.  no blame, no shame, no judgment. 

candid, i love your 'loving heart' concept.  every time i see that, i smile.  it's beautiful.

silent rhino, we were the ones who were abused, whether as children or as adults.  that makes the others the abusers.  as children, we had no power over what was happening, so it couldn't possibly be our fault.  as adults, we had been set up to look at people and relationships as a way to continue getting abused.  our programming was faulty, not us.  the main thing is that we are choosing a different way to look at everything now, and are taking back our power and ability to make healthier choices for ourselves.   to me, that's what counts now.  whichever way it works best for you.   big hug!

Quote from: sanmagic7 on April 25, 2017, 05:11:03 PM
i don't know if i could ever get to a place where when my daughter jabs at or disrespects me it will have no effect.  mother's heart and all that.  that's why nc has been my choice with her. 

I'm so sorry if I triggered this, San. I have no children, and was thinking particularly about my own FOO... how I have so recently given up the dream of good relationships with them, and how ostracism might have been avoided. Not that I'm blaming myself; I wasn't as strong then as I am years down the track... or as I'm asking others to be. Oops.

Quotemy folks are dead, so i don't know what that might have been like if they'd still been alive.   that's what makes recovery so personal and individual.  we make the choices that are best for us, even if they might not work for someone else. 

Yes. We are individuals with very different circumstances.

Quoteno blame, no shame, no judgment. 

Someone please let me know if I'm being too strident. :fallingbricks:

candid, not to worry.  you were coming from your own experience, and i respect that.  it's just that my experience has been different is all.

as far as the intervention with your foo, i think you did what you thought best at the time.  you had good intentions in your own loving heart, and wanted to be closer to them in the way you thought would work.  maybe you didn't have enough information at the time, didn't know enough about how abusers think and work - i don't know.  you do seem to be pretty hard on yourself about it, tho, and that may be due, in part, to your present circumstances, and what you've gone through because of it at the time.

i've made some doozy mistakes, lost very good friends because of them, and think of them often, how i'd love to get them back somehow.  there is a place in my recovering mind, tho, that keeps telling me it's gone now, i did what i did and i can't make it right anymore.  i struggle not to beat myself up for what i did, keep trying to keep it in mind that my programming led me to act the way i did, make the choices i did.

if i could do it differently, i would, but that goes for myself as well.  if only...there's only one phrase that comes to mind to follow that 'if only' and it's 'i'd known better'.  it covers relationships, parenting, my experience with that awful t i had - a myriad of circumstances and situations.

the bottom line and complete truth is that i didn't know better, couldn't have known better.  as for you and your foo, you didn't know, couldn't have known.  we can stop beating ourselves up for information we had no access to at the time, don't you think?  it's part of the c-ptsd beast that we have these losses in our lives.  very sad.  since it can't be different, i'm going to continue moving forward knowing that i did the best i could with what i knew at the time.  grab my hand - we'll move forward together.  and we'll grab anyone else's hand who wants to join us.   big hug, my dear candid.

Blueberry, will you post the letters you write here, or keep them private?

Quote from: sanmagic7 on April 25, 2017, 07:17:52 PM
there is a place in my recovering mind, tho, that keeps telling me it's gone now, i did what i did and i can't make it right anymore.

I agree. If old friends or relatives come looking for me I'll deal with it as I see fit. Until that time, I need to make new and better contacts.

Quotegrab my hand - we'll move forward together.  and we'll grab anyone else's hand who wants to join us.   big hug, my dear candid.

Backatcha, my friend and sister. :bighug:

3Roses, when I start writing I'll post on here,  because I can write on here without literally damaging myself whereas if I write that kind of thing in private on paper, 'damage' is more likely, and even if that's not triggered, it's far more strenuous for me to keep the emotion-thought connection going. But I need that in order to feel what I want to write and what's going on and at the same time in order to put it into thoughts and words and sentences. Otherwise speechlessness sets in. For that this forum has become very helpful for me.
Thanks again everybody at OOTS  :hug:

blueberry, i'm just so glad that you can use this forum to gather, arrange, and organize thoughts and feelings by writing them down here.  that is so great.  you, my dear, are making progress.  big hug!

thanks sanmagic for the  :thumbup: on my progress. Your validation helps.  :hug:

So I was re-reading this thread earlier this evening.

There's still a FOO letter my T thinks I need to write. Or at least he said quite a while ago that it seems I need to. Maybe I don't anymore.

I got out of bed some time this afternoon thinking, yeah I'm going to write to B2 and I even had the wording in my head. But then by the time I got on here and distracted myself by reading this and that (my bad!), the wording had gone. Then I re-read this thread and note that the anger energy has got me out of bed before only to realise when I come on here to write that my brain goes blank.

Quote from: Candid on April 22, 2017, 12:18:07 PM

Quote from: Blueberry on April 21, 2017, 09:23:11 PM
Why should I tie myself in knots to communicate in a 100% emotionally healthy, non-dysfunctional way when the rest of FOO - all supposedly sane and normal - can't communicate in a healthy way either?

No reason. TBH, from having tried so many times to communicate my distress to FOO, I don't believe there's any way you can put things that won't backfire on you.

I think now there is a reason actually. It is one of survival in whatever state of VLC one has. While I'm still at a "tying myself in knots" stage it's almost impossible to communicate anyway, but when I am able to communicate, then it's best for me to be as emotionally healthy about it as possible. Because the more I can do that, the less likely FOO will get stuck on what I'm saying and start arguing back and the less likely I am to end up engaging later after all. So basically, if I can communicate what I feel I need to without setting off a FOO dysfunctional ping-pong game, then that's good.

If I can't, the letter needs to be on here a while first as a Recovery letter to let the vitriol out.

I removed 'pls comment' at the top of the thread. Not that I'm against comments, but I don't desperately need them on this thread since the idea of actually sending these in this form is long gone.

Here we are almost 2 months later and I finally sent that email to B2, based on what I discussed with T about 6 weeks ago. I had more in mind to send one to parents, maybe I'll do that too. It's often easier for me to get up the courage to do several at once.