Among other things, I work one-on-one with school students to help them improve their marks. I am self-employed but can only work very part-time because of health, why else.
One woman who sends two of her children to me is a pain in the neck putting it mildly. I'm wondering if she maybe has narcisstic symptoms. I'm not asking whether she does, but just so you know what I'm dealing with here. She hardly ever gets back to me the first time, I almost always have to send a second reminding email or try to phone her. And I really mean 'hardly ever' / 'almost always'. That's not an exaggeration.
The latest problem is, she's been paying later and later. The monthly payments are meant to be in my account by the third of the month. This is in my contract, which she signed. March payment came around the 15th so I emailed her if that happened again she'd have to pay a 'late fee' of not very much, actually. Answer - she wants to pay middle of the month from now on and is happy to pay a 'late fee' for that (this from a mother who can't afford more lessons for one child though said child needs it desperately). Overly generous as usual, I said so long as I know the payment is coming by the 15th of the month, I won't charge a 'late fee'. Did the payment reach my bank account by April 15th? No. Of course not. It came on the 20th. So I emailed her that she has to hand over the late fee in cash and send it with one child the next lesson, which was today. Neither child had brought the money, although the mother had even specified which child she'd give it to. They're both teenagers BTW, so capable of being in charge of a few coins. There are reasons why I want it cash. So next thing is to send an email charging double the amount of those few coins - that's how it works in my country.
It's so inconsiderate it makes me angry. This woman with all her shenanigans causes me more admin work than most of the other parents put together. As a self-employed person, I'm not being paid for the time I stick in here. Of course I know that you have to calculate that kind of crxp into your price but a) it's a bit of a cutthroat market and b) raising my price and in fact even invoicing are a bit triggering for me, they destabilise me, even though they are of course necessary. I know that. But knowing that sort of fact doesn't help me combat the amygdala highjacks that come when I consider raising prices. So I have the prices which I have. Not dirt cheap/self-exploitative, but not super-high either.
The idea that she may have narc symptoms is actually helping me. That means: it's not my fault. I haven't explained too little or this or that. I'm not expecting too much. It's really this one parent who is pretty unreasonable. Other clients thank me if I go out of my way, bend my contract rules a bit in circumstances where I decide to be flexible, or even just e.g. answer a query particularly quickly. 'Thank you' seems not to exist in this woman's vocabulary. I'm taking this woman's behaviour less personally now. :thumbup: to myself.
Now to stand up for myself in a concrete way by sending my next reminder email demanding double payment. Keep breathing.
Now that I've done it, my immediate impulse is to not just close my email program, but also shut down the computer and leave the room. It feels so scary when I stand up for myself and even demand compensation for being wronged. It feels so scary I even use a child's word. I usually say 'frightening' in my Adult world, not 'scary'.
Breathe, Blueberry, breathe. You're allowed to stand up for yourself, you're allowed to set other people limits and that's often via money in the business world.
So it will be even more empowering to write: I am allowed to stand up for myself. I am allowed to set other people limits. I'm allowed to set other people limits that may 'hurt' them in the way that the loss of a little bit of money might.
Now I have to add for Inner Children/Teens that hurting people in this way is not real physical or emotional hurting, the way little Blueberries suffered in the past. These people might not like having less money to spend, but it's not causing them any kind of injury. That's the difference between Adult Blueberry now and FOO in the past. So it really is OK to set limits!! :yes:
QuoteBreathe, Blueberry, breathe. You're allowed to stand up for yourself, you're allowed to set other people limits and that's often via money in the business world.
You
ARE allowed! You can say, "This is what's acceptable for me," without apology! :cheer:
yes, you are allowed - it's called self care. as for hurting someone, you're not doing the hurting, she is by ignoring you and messing with your head.
we have a right to set realistic boundaries and expect them to be respected. if they're not, that is where the hurting is coming from, not from you. they may not like it, may disagree, may get angry, may even feel hurt, but that's not on you. i'm glad you're not taking it personally. you don't deserve that.
if the time comes when you have to set more rigid boundaries, again, she's the one who is mucking it up, not you. you go, blueberry! big hug!!!
Thank you so much for the validation 3Roses and sanmagic! And then for pointing things out I hadn't mentioned/noticed.
:bighug: :bighug: to you both.
I know I tend to set limits apologetically, which isn't a good thing to do. It weakens the effect of the limit, so you're right 3Roses it would be good for me to remind myself of what is and isn't acceptable to me and know that that's perfectly legit. :yes:
But I hadn't noticed at all - thanks for pointing out, sanmagic - that I was accusing myself of hurting somebody whereas actually this person is hurting me by her actions. Typical CPTSD mistake, victim blames self and takes on feeling of guilt/shame that ought to be the other person's. Naming the game is first step to stopping it!
As of maybe a day ago I'm not taking this personally, so a new development deserves :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
i'll join in!
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
More progress with this troublesome client yesterday: Today is a public holiday and schools round here all closed tomorrow, so quite a few people with school-age children go away for a long weekend. The children of Troublesome Client come Fridays, so last week I asked via email if they would be coming this Friday or would they like the lesson at a different time. Get back to me on this one by Tues. 23 May, in bold, so hard to miss. Mon. evening I considered sending a reminder email, then realised: "No! That's their job." First item of progress.
Yesterday afternoon an email came saying children would come at 11 AM or 2 PM, if the message isn't too late. I wrote back saying: "Actually, your message is too late. I'll see the children next Fri." Second item of progress.
And now as my contract stands it's up to them to get back to me on finding a different date and time for tomorrow's lesson. So I don't even lose any money this way, but I think even if I were to, I would've gone through with this. It's time this mother got her act together or dealt with the consequences. She signed my contract after all.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Good for you!!!
Too bad I didn't read this thread a bit earlier today before I sent Troublesome Client another payment reminder for this month. I went a step further and demanded she start paying again by the third of the month as of next month, and obviously right away this month.
Then I left the computer briefly to do some other work. When my email pinged, I immediately thought it was a reply and so I did a very unhealthy coping mechanism, just at the thought. I was self-blaming, thinking I'd probably made a mistake, checked my bank statements wrong or checked the wrong account. (Actually it wasn't even her emailing.)
The things I did well: I really felt angry when I wrote my email and used up-front language, deleted a few 'pleases'. I didn't recheck my account balance till today and so writing the email as soon as I had done so was a good step forward too. I also sent it right away , no waiting till next day or anything. I also resisted the temptation to offer her possibility of paying half at the beginning of the month, half in the middle. I did consider it, since Troublesome Client has indicated financial pressure before. But then the dragon in me rose up and said: "No way. Troublesome Client doesn't respect my contract, doesn't seem to notice the accommodation I've already made for her, never thanks me for any accommodation I make, and doesn't even apologise. So no way!"
sounds like progress to me, blueberry. keep up the good work! you're doing really well. big hug!
Thank you sanmagic! It is progress! Now to send her daughter home tomorrow at beginning of the lesson if daughter doesn't bring the late payment fine with her... It goes against the grain to punish children because their parents behave like this but occasionally it may be the only way you can get through to the parents. I hope daughter brings the money with her tomorrow so I don't have to do that.
I had a similar case a few years back and didn't send the child away despite repeated non-payment because the child had an important exam. Now I intend to, even though the child has a big test on Thursday. I mean, I'm even letting the child come tomorrow although it doesn't really suit me and she usually comes Friday. The least the parent could do would be pay on time! You'd think.
indeed. sending you all kinds of strength and fortitude to do what needs to be done. :hug:
Update: setting a limit in no uncertain terms seems to have helped in more ways than one! Troublesome Client not only paid (albeit the wrong amount - too much, go figure) but also thanked me for my last email, which was cancelling appointments this week since I'm ill, and wished me a Get Well Soon. Wow. Up till now Thanks didn't even seem to be part of her vocabulary
Now if only setting limits in FOO would bring about such immediate changes. :bigwink:
Yay :cheer: for putting boundaries at place Blueberry!
Lingurine
good for you, blueberry, not only in setting those boundaries, but for taking care of yourself by canceling appts. this week so you can feel better and heal properly.
yeah, too bad it doesn't work with foo like that. they've got us in their sights a certain way, i guess, and for so long that i don't see them changing, at least not mine. no need to. they think they're happy with the status quo. keep up the good work, feel better soon. chicken soup on the porch sounds great. big hug.
I checked my bank balance this week instead of last, because I was ill last week. Troublesome Client hasn't paid. Again. :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:
One possible reaction would be me ending their contract. I have done that three times so far in my career but it's not as if I'm overrun with clients at the moment. Also this is a fairly small place where I live and word might get around. People whose contract I end are not likely to explain to people why I ended their contract.
So I need a different solution. I'll send a payment reminder after posting on here. The first month I made them pay 2.50 currency, and then a further reminder for that month, I upped it to 5, the next month 5 again. This month 10??? Except these payments don't seem to work, they don't seem to affect the client. Despite the fact that the client claims to be short of money. I guess short of organisational skills too. :doh:
The reminder payments, basically little 'fines', are more trouble to me than they're worth. The client might think it's free money for me, but it's not at all. Especially if they don't work. It's a real hassle dealing with this stupid and inconsiderate client. :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:
After writing the payment reminder, I'll probably go and do a round of EFT before I go to bed.
Have been working on the payment reminder. don't quite dare to write what I'd really like to. Because I might lose client. Since client sends both children to me, it's a fair bit of money per month. OTOH it's a bad compromise for me if I don't say it how it is. But then maybe I'm particularly irked because of my past? No, I don't think so. I think it irks me that Client doesn't listen. And that is probably because I am not loud or forceful enough.
I have had the experience that when I am loud, somebody complains that I'm being rude or too outspoken, or both. When I'm not loud, I'm often not heard. It does depend a bit what group of people I'm in. Sometimes I am heard, if I just have a comment or a question. But if I want something, especially something that requires the group to come to a decision or something which is going to conceivably negatively impact on somebody else, yikes, that is difficult. We talked about that in T recently too. In FOO I grew up learning that somebody can be wrong in their requirements or requests. That was mostly me of course. The wrongness theoretically had to do with me not being able to talk 'rationally' about what I needed or just not being able to verbalise it somehow. Probably because FOO didn't want to understand it. It was easier to pretend I was stupid or something. So I'm still dealing with that issue constantly in my subconscious. Anybody remember the saying "Excuse me for living, but the graveyard's full." from about the 80's? That's me.
It's good to recognise more deeply what's behind my difficulties with demanding that a client respects my contract and conditions. After a quick post on another thread, I'll be off to do my EFT for the night.
Blueberry, the behavior of your client is unacceptable. That's a tough one, it reminds me of a scene from the movie 'Single white female', where the client doesn't pay, so his PC shuts down automatically. Until he has paid, then the program will work again.
I think something similar, kindly tell her that you don't continue your work until she has paid, after that, you will continue. Then actually wait until she has paid. And continue the work then.
Bold, but it might work.
Lingurine
Thank you, dear Lingurine! Your words and your idea gave me the courage to demand that the client brings the payment today in cash and I further stipulated that she come by for a 'talk'. Otherwise no lesson for her daughter today or tomorrow.
No more trifling little late payment fees. The client has to really notice the limits I'm setting. Otherwise she'll just continue playing around with me wasting my time and my energy, which is much worse for me.
The result: the client sent the money today with her daughter but is not coming by for her 'talk' and is not sending her daughters to me next year, though they need it. Good luck finding somebody else who continually allows late payments :bigwink:
My reaction is to feel slightly let down, sort of disappointed. Hey, I'm a good teacher! I was helping these two girls and because the parent has problems (narcisstic?) the parent is removing them. But on the other hand I also feel relieved that this troublesome client will be taking her rule-breaking somewhere else and that the saga has come to an end. No more wondering and pondering whether ... I just won't have to deal with her and her unreasonable, time-consuming behaviour anymore. Other clients will come, they always do.
The daughters will come a few times more. I'll continue to teach well, but I won't go out of my way for them.
:cheer: this is progress, look at the time you now have. Less worrying.
I'm sure the universe will send you new, much nicer, better paying clients.
Lingurine
i do believe everything happens for a reason, blueberry. that client was irresponsible, consistently stepped over your boundaries, and is someone who does not want to look at herself and what she's doing. you are finally out of that, and don't need to deal with it anymore. she never deserved you.
i agree, you will now have time and energy for either other projects or appreciative clients. you did real good, my dear. big hug.
Thank you , Lingurine and Sanmagic, for the validation. I do know that new clients or some new work opportunity always turns up when I close one door. But I sometimes forget that when making a decision to set a limit.
Also often a new little spurt of creativity will come. Right the next day I wrote some advertising for a summer discount that I'd been intending to write for a while. It's for August when things are really slow but I knew I needed to write it some time in July. And now it's done.
You're right, sanmagic, this client didn't deserve me. She just never appreciated what I did for her and her daughters. With her chaos she caused more work than the rest of the clients put together. :thumbdown:
I'm done with that!
Quote from: Lingurine on July 14, 2017, 03:01:29 PM
I'm sure the universe will send you new, much nicer, better paying clients.
Lingurine
I think the universe has, in the form of an adult who wants to come 2x a week starting this week and who says that money is not a problem. :woohoo: :yahoo: He also seems very determined to make use of my services, no faffing about. These types of clients know what they're getting from me, realise what my work is worth and tend not to 'forget' to pay.
Business is always really slow at this time of year, so having somebody starting 2x per week is great!
congrats, sweetie! so very glad to hear this. you go! big hug.
Actually the :woohoo: client ended up getting sick, sounded like burnout to me, and never came again. As I posted on another thread, I have next to no clients atm. But there is also probably a good reason for that: I need my time and energy for working on my emotional healing and in between bouts of that: drifting. e.g. by staying in bed or going back to bed. It's my safe place. Sometimes I lie there and read Harry Potter which I know off by heart practically ;) but it's good to come across some wise sayings from Dumbledore or even sometimes Hermione which pertain to my particular mood or problem.
I'm starting to be way more accepting of myself in my 'drifting' moments. My T has already said that in these phases I'm allowing memories and realisations to come up which are in turn allowing healing to take place. So 'drifting' is really important, essential even.
I re-read this whole thread this evening. It shows me how much progress I've made. Just over 6 months ago I felt I had to turn the computer off and leave the room after setting a boundary via email. Of course I was acting on an irrational fear because there's nothing Troublesome Client could have done via email, and she couldn't even have reached me by phone. Irrational fears take over as an amygdala hijack or EF so they're real for us in that moment obviously.
What this thread also shows me is that setting this Troublesome C. limits is a precursor to setting FOO limits. Lingurine told me in this thread that Troublesome Client's behaviour was unacceptable. For a few days now in my head I've been saying to B2: "your and your wife's behaviour was unacceptable and it is not negotiable. I am not putting up with this. An apology is not enough. You have to change your attitude to me. Otherwise it's No Contact." While knowing that neither an apology nor an attitude change are at all likely. More likely just more gaslighting. Anyway I don't actually have to send any of this to him. It's likely to end up under Unsent Letters. But we're also likely to either remain exceedingly LC or go NC, continued or initiated by me.
Then maybe the universe will send me new much nicer family (FOC).
Same old, same old.
Not the same troublesome clients, they're long gone. But me having the same problems quaking in my shoes and sending an email to a client, who cancelled at very short notice without explanation, that that's not OK according to the contract.
As I spell out that he has to pay for this appointment anyway, although he will get the time added onto other appointments if he wants. (He's just not allowed to pay less because he didn't come today). Anyway, as I spell that all out, I notice how difficult it is. And therefore how important it is that I continue bit by bit with FOO! Because I never managed to split from FOO emotionally - neither as a toddler nor as a teenager - I'm still very enmeshed. This fear I have of terrible repercussions, I'm projecting it into other situations. Although the fear isn't unwarranted in other situations - there are always some clients who don't want to stick to the contract, and if they are reminded of it, will not renew their contract - the way I feel it physically and the way I really search for the correct words and wording, almost obsessively, instead of just writing a 2 minute email and hitting SEnd and off with it, shows how much the whole thing is connected to FOO problems.
I didn't manage to split from FOO emotionally because they didn't want that to happen. It's a result of the trauma, which probably all or most of us on here have to deal with in some form or other and to some extent or other. It seems very, very difficult in my case. I've been feeling the past couple of days that my progress is so slow which I was equating with personal inadequacy and laziness in healing. But I remind myself now that I've been working at this bit by bit for years now. I've been doing the best I can.
Quote from: Blueberry on January 08, 2018, 05:12:40 PM
Because I never managed to split from FOO emotionally - neither as a toddler nor as a teenager - I'm still very enmeshed. This fear I have of terrible repercussions, I'm projecting it into other situations.
I didn't manage to split from FOO emotionally because they didn't want that to happen. It's a result of the trauma, which probably all or most of us on here have to deal with in some form or other and to some extent or other.
Hi Blueberry - this is my first attempt to 'quote' from your post - so I really hope I've done it correctly - but what you wrote resonated so much with me, I feel very similar to what you described - it makes so much sense.
I also like what you wrote at the end, when you said "But I remind myself now that I've been working at this bit by bet for years now. I've been doing the best I can."
Good luck Blueberry with writing to that client, and ensuring they pay you for the time they owe to you - for not cancelling in time - that's only right.
Hope :)
Blueberry, sorry - I didn't manage to do it right - I see I've ended up in a large quotation. I did try - don't worry about trying to explain how to do it, I'll try again another time. I hope my post makes sense anyway...!
For better readability, I changed it for you. :)
Thank you for commenting and especially for repeating some of my words. I thought: "Did I really write 'I have been doing the best I can'"? I looked at my post and saw I really did. It's really hard for me to believe that and not see myself as constantly under-achieving and doing too little to achieve my goals. But when I was posting that, obviously I was briefly in touch with my real feelings on the matter instead of being in touch with negative slander from FOO, of which there is still a ton in my head.
I'm sorry my post makes sense to you too, but at the same time it's very validating to me that I can write things people understand (since FOO doesn't understand and always blamed my writing or speaking skills) and that other people have gone through this craziness - it's not just me or my imagination. No, it's real dysfunctional family tactics.
I wrote to the client before I posted here. I haven't heard back yet (client is presumably busy elsewhere) and I feel calmer now.
Today I've been thinking about the client I was posting about for most of this thread. For the prospective client it's not about payment on time yet but NTS dealings with her are bringing up similar feelings. Also NTS it wouldn't hurt to lose prospective client. I'm at my limit in terms of clients atm anyway.
Quote from: Blueberry on November 20, 2017, 09:19:20 PM
I have next to no clients atm. But there is also probably a good reason for that: I need my time and energy for working on my emotional healing and in between bouts of that: drifting. e.g. by staying in bed or going back to bed. It's my safe place. ...
I'm starting to be way more accepting of myself in my 'drifting' moments. My T has already said that in these phases I'm allowing memories and realisations to come up which are in turn allowing healing to take place. So 'drifting' is really important, essential even.
I re-read this whole thread this evening. It shows me how much progress I've made. Just over 6 months ago I felt I had to turn the computer off and leave the room after setting a boundary via email. Of course I was acting on an irrational fear because there's nothing Troublesome Client could have done via email, and she couldn't even have reached me by phone. Irrational fears take over as an amygdala hijack or EF so they're real for us in that moment obviously.
What this thread also shows me is that setting this Troublesome C. limits is a precursor to setting FOO limits. Lingurine told me in this thread that Troublesome Client's behaviour was unacceptable. For a few days now in my head I've been saying to B2: "your and your wife's behaviour was unacceptable and it is not negotiable. I am not putting up with this. An apology is not enough. You have to change your attitude to me. Otherwise it's No Contact." While knowing that neither an apology nor an attitude change are at all likely. More likely just more gaslighting. Anyway I don't actually have to send any of this to him. It's likely to end up under Unsent Letters. But we're also likely to either remain exceedingly LC or go NC, continued or initiated by me.
Then maybe the universe will send me new much nicer family (FOC).
It's been good to re-read most of this thread. An adult student decided today to not renew her contract. That's acceptable, sort of, though rather sudden. What is however not acceptable is that she had a lesson 2 weeks ago and simply didn't come. It was off the end of her contract, she was going to pay in cash and I was going to discuss continuing her contract. I had prepared her lesson and come back to my office specially. No show.
Now she's asking me to send her invoices. I countered with: she has to collect them. And if she wants me to go out of my way writing them in such a way as she might be able to use them for her taxes, she is going to have to pay for the lesson she cancelled at way too short notice. I'll see what she says. Her reason for not continuing the contract is financial, officially. I think her reasons are different however.
I quoted the bit I quoted from 2017 to show myself how much this is a process. That letting myself drift seems necessary and not something to condemn myself for, no matter how much I tend to do so. Last night I had more FOO dreams. We were all together and going into family therapy, arranged by them. I tried to find somewhere safe by myself. There was nowhere in the home or outside where I felt safe. I felt I had to go to the family therapy, otherwise I'd be blamed for not trying. It took me a while to think to myself "Wait a minute! I have a right to find out
who this person is conducting the family therapy, is this person M and F's therapist?? Can I have a professional support person for me alone?" That was the most important part of the dream and it ended then.
Troublesome clients, troublesome FOO, troublesome landlord - all interconnected.