I want to take just a moment to talk about my experience in the hope that I can connect with others who have lived through something similar. I was a boy who was raped by a woman. I'm now a man who lives with those memories every day. I've clicked around on this discussion board and haven't seen many whom I can identify as men, and I think that the most common form of sexual abuse is by men toward females. I feel sort of alone in this way, like I don't have many people who can relate to my particular experience, and no one to talk to about it who will really understand and commiserate.
I've been in trauma recovery since 2012, and have done LOTS of EMDR. Because of the nature of the assault, the death threats, and subsequent years of being emotionally and physically abused I blocked it all out. It's because of the EMDR that I remember as much as I do now and I'm really a heck of a lot better than I was in say, 2010, when it all finally caught up with me. I thank God for the ability to remember the incident and to connect all of the subsequent abuse in a meaningful way. I still do struggle sometimes with believing that it actually happened. I used to think that I was just crazy and making it all up, but now the evidence is so overwhelming that I have to believe it. But there's still this little "what if I'm wrong" in the back of my mind....
But I know I'm not wrong. I know it actually happened, and I know what she did to cover it up for decades afterward. I'm angry that she stole so many years of my life from me. I'm angry that she stole my sexuality. I'm angry that I'm the one who has dealt with it while she has successfully denied it to herself for thirty years.
I am hoping to find someone who can relate to my story, since it's unusual to be sexually abused by a woman. Or maybe it isn't? I don't know. I'm new to sharing my story with the wider world, even this abridged version. Only three people besides myself know the whole story, and one of them is a very sick woman. This isn't to diminish others' experiences, or to give mine some kind of preference, so anything constructive is welcome. I'm just now reemerging into the world, a world that was "out there" for so many years but unavailable to me. I'm finally waking up from the nightmare, "out of the fog" as you say :)
I think the majority of people here who post regularly are female, but many of them report some sexual abuse from other females. I have seen posts from men who suffered CSA from females.
If there was no direct CSA from females, it also seems there may have been some knowledge on the part of the female caregivers that the abuse was happening, and they looked the other way.
I'm so sorry you were abused and suffered thru threats in order to keep you quiet. Hopefully you'll hear from some of our guys soon. In any event I hope you keep posting, we believe you. It's more common for us to minimize the abuse than to make it up.
:heythere:
Quotewe believe you.
That means more to me than you can know. When I was first grappling with the flashbacks and the reality of the abuse, it's the thing that troubled me the most, I think... that no one would believe me. Thanks for that.
Hi...so I'm a guy but I choose not to focus on that identity here, as I feel there's more commonality on OOTS regardless of gender. We all hurt in the aftermath of cptsd no matter where it started or from whom we suffered. I identify as human first; though I feel my sexual expression was definitely affected (how could it not be? I'm asexual if you know the term).
I was molested as well by several women, starting with the mother and followed by teachers in a religious school. This was in addition to the other forms--emotional, physical, and abandonment.
I learned a long time ago it can be risky to dare bringing it up with many people, due as you note to the bizarre cultural taboo that says it doesn't happen. Which is really code language for let's cover this up as it doesn't fit our stereotypes. Unfortunately this hurts many like you and I who've experienced the opposite.
I've written about this at several other points on this forum, and value the notion that here many people can relate regardless of the gender issue. For a recent thread that touched on some of this, you might want to look up:
http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=7209.0
There were other discussions, but as many know, it can be a challenge to find some of the older material on here.
Thanks for having the courage to have found someplace where you can find fellow humans who can relate to abuse in all its ugly forms. We'll find the strength to make it through. Best to you... :hug:
I feel a lot of things here are the same, but different. I know what it is like to live in terror with death threats looming. I know what it is like to be violated. Yet, no two stories are exactly the same. I'm female, my abuser male.
Not too long ago I met a man with an eating disorder. After talking to him I realized how much alike we are. He thinks like I think. While there will always be difference, there are similarities too. I learned a great deal from him as I think he did from me as well.
I hope to get to know you too.
Dutchierich, I haven't read your post in detail because I'm tired, but the Subject stands out. I'm female and was sexually abused by a woman, my mother. Not everybody believes that can happen. It has been questioned by therapists before, as in "Are you sure it wasn't your father?" I never blanked out the CSA from my mother, so yes I am sure. But it's really hard not to be believed.
In the long course of my therapy, I have come across males who were abused by females, so you're not alone there.
Quote from: dutchierich on August 28, 2017, 08:06:03 AM
I am hoping to find someone who can relate to my story, since it's unusual to be sexually abused by a woman. Or maybe it isn't?
This article says rapes of men are way under-reported, and often done by women:
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html
I haven't been here for quite a while, so weird that I logged in today. (Hi, Everyone!)
There was a bit of physical abuse from both parents and older sisters, but that seems minor to me. The emotional abuse from my Mom is the hardest.
I still don't know WHAT I'd call it from my Mom, though... therapists have called it CSA... certainly if the genders were reversed I would call it that. There were MANY graphic and detailed threats from my Mom how she was going to rape or kill me, not daily, but several times a week. There was direct SA from my older sisters which I've always remembered graphically (that occurred age 4-5). And both friends and therapists have helped me able to actually say a lot of my adult sexual experiences were sexual assaults. It's hard to even state that most places without being attacked.
I don't get the attitude from abused people much, but from the larger world, it's like I'm not ALLOWED to even recognise it as assault/abuse, since the moment I bring it up, I get the standard abuse minimization and invalidation, as well as arguments that "women have it worse", or worse, I'm lying and a misogynist. There's pressure to see it as me "being lucky", but rarely to "hide it to be a man", though. In my case at least, I don't think I've EVER experienced the second attitude expressed.
I feel very alone with it all, as well. I still have a hard time even making any sense of this, since I find the culture at large is invalidating, ridiculing, and actively argue against the reality of what I went through.
I tried to get help for this 25 years ago, and was laughed at, yelled at, told I was lying. It wasn't until a couple of years ago I found a therapist who would listen.
I remember what happened, so I don't have those doubts, but my Mom was a radical second-wave feminist, and that was always used as the justification for why I deserved it and it was my fault. It messes with my head.
a client was raped by his older sister when he was around 13, repeatedly. the first time, he was confused and in pain - she told him it would feel better later. when he brought it up to friends they high-fived him, told him how great it was that he got an older woman.
it wasn't named as rape for him until he was in his 50's. by that time his sexual life, the idea of sex being linked to conquests, and his innocence in the sexual arena, especially going thru all the awkwardness of adolescent experimentation and learning were all corrupted.
you are not alone in this, dutchierich. too many people still don't believe it's even possible for rape to go from female to male. it's very possible, it's just as traumatizing, and has the same long-reaching effects for a man's life. i'm very sorry you had this experience. a gentle, compassionate hug coming your way.
Thanks so much for all who've shared with me! It's so good for me to hear that I'm not the only one to have had this particular experience.
When I was coming to grips with the reality of it all, my therapist used the word "rape." It struck me so profoundly that I couldn't even wrap my head around it. I was raped? Really? By a woman? Is that even possible? As an eight-year-old? But the more the flashbacks came, the more I remembered of it, the more I realized that it is possible, and that it really did happen.
sanmagic7 wrote of a client:
Quotehis innocence in the sexual arena, especially going thru all the awkwardness of adolescent experimentation and learning were all corrupted.
I had this as well. I would immediately dissociate when a sexual encounter was imminent. I still do if its the "first time" with someone (but I'm married now so that won't be an issue anymore :) :) ). But back when I was a teenager, for example, and well into adulthood for that matter, I was well-liked by the young women in my life, and they would push themselves on me, sometimes aggressively. It would always result in me being unable to give them what they wanted. I would become all but catatonic, and in my mind be anywhere else but there. (Talk about a freeze response haha.) I would just wait until it was over, just like when I was little. They would sometimes become angry with me, think that I didn't like them, or think that there was something wrong with them. I couldn't explain what was wrong with me.
I was resentful for so long about this, that my youthful sexuality was stolen from me and I was left with so much regret, especially since I had no idea what was wrong, it was all blocked out. I still am maybe a little resentful, but therapy has helped to release those regrets and put things into perspective. woodsgnome, you mentioned being asexual, and I can totally relate. I always wished my sexuality would just disappear, it would have been so much easier. I was afraid of my own sexual response, physically I mean. Sexual encounters induced mind-bending fear. I suppose being raped will do that to a person.
As sanmagic7, meursault, and woodsgnome mentioned, there does seem to be a cultural taboo surrounding CSA by a woman. I've done very little research into CSA so I don't know all the attitudes out there, but my experience has been that there's simply silence about CSA by a woman to a boy. Studies don't include us, people automatically assume that if a boy was abused it was by a man (which has historically put unfair culpability on the gay community), and as such we have no real framework against which to compare our experience.
LaurelLeaves, thanks for the link! It has given me some great references that I'll be studying today. Blueberry and Dee, thanks for sharing your wisdom with me! This is all really good for me, and strengthens my confidence that it is possible, that it is real. As you said, Blueberry, "it's really hard not to be believed." That's so true, especially when I'm the one who doesn't believe myself.
Dutchierich noted that "I would immediately dissociate when a sexual encounter was imminent. I still do". That's my achilles heel as well, and sums up the effects of what these assaults left me with--an emasculated sexuality.
I had a few wonderful relationships (albeit none 'til after high school) until, as Dutchierich described: "I would become all but catatonic, and in my mind be anywhere else but there. (Talk about a freeze response...)." Precisely. It's the ultimate, and most devastating, dissociation possible.
Like so much of my life, avoidance also became and remains my typical pattern, much to my chagrin and those of several who sought to know me better. One lady in particular--who lived 100+ miles away--dated me for over a decade, the connection was that strong except...the heartbreak finally caught up with us. So many times she tried valiantly to help me heal and soothe my intense anxiety, but the memories of being violated washed away the prospects of our continuing the journey. I guess I've kind of referenced this before, but it feels good to have spit it out, too. As we know, this isn't easy explaining away from this forum. So thank you, Dutchrichie, for coaxing me into the fresh air.
Quote from: woodsgnome on August 29, 2017, 02:36:54 PM
Dutchierich noted that "I would immediately dissociate when a sexual encounter was imminent. I still do". That's my achilles heel as well, and sums up the effects of what these assaults left me with
Me too, Dutchierich and Woodsgnome. So much so that I have never actually had any kind of sexual encounter as an adult, if that makes sense. If a man holds my hand, my hand and arm go numb. I can handle a hug only if there's nothing sexual about it. But I'm not actually happily asexual, it's just that it feels safest to me not to have any sexual contact. At least I can now handle and sometimes even enjoy physical contact that's not sexual. I used not to be able to.
When some people especially therapists hear it was my mother who committed the CSA and that I'm terrified of sexual contact with men, they tell me how illogical this is, meaning it's a reason to disbelieve me. A long time ago a fellow patient helped me by pointing out that when CSA is done to small children they get really confused.
Quote from: dutchierich on August 28, 2017, 08:06:03 AM
I was a boy who was raped by a woman. I'm now a man who lives with those memories every day. I've clicked around on this discussion board and haven't seen many whom I can identify as men,
As I've posted, I'm a woman sexually abused by a woman as a child. My brothers were both abused by her too, some of it she did pretty openly and I saw it happen. They don't remember it. I warned them before their children were born and they said "No memory of any of that." Lucky them. I would say I lived with the memories almost every day of my life until some time in the past year or so, maybe, that they've been becoming less prominent. I've been in therapy and/or in between therapies working on myself for ever, seemingly.
If my username doesn't give me away completely... ;D I am, indeed, a man.
As of last count, I have been abused by 7 females from age 12 to 50ish. The 12 yr old may have killed me by kicking me in the head, after she had me on the ground.. Her older sister stopped her just before her combat style Boot would have impacted my temple.
Mommy Dearest CPA me 4-5 times a week from age 5 to age 11. Yeah...6 years. Couldn't sit without pain and discomfort for the whole time. And a major concussion, TBI really, around age 6 or 7.
Had a new memory surface Monday, 2 weeks ago. I was 4, she was 7. I don't remember what she told me other than it was RA/MC and cult related. I remember vividly the pictures she drew as she told me. Lost 2 hours that time. Day later her mom was crying and told me she was sorry, for what, 4yr old me had no clue..lost 5 hours that time. Someone on another online site said it's known as transferred RA.
2 of my SA by females happened while I was in the Marines.
Oh....right....wife...she has been abusing me for over 20 years, DV...SA and physical abuse, mental emotional verbal....all of it.
Yes, I am terrified of females, and drawn to them at the same time...I think I can't resist or refuse...probably stems from the CPA from mommy...always trying to please them, prove my worth and value to them.
On the flip side, I've also been abused by at least 15 male abusers at last count.
So, dude, you're not alone.
Andy
to all the men here who have gone thru the horrors, both physically (even if there was a sense of enjoyment at some level) and emotionally of sa by women, my heart goes out to you. meursault, may i respectfully suggest that genders don't really matter in this area - abuse is abuse no matter from which gender to which.
living in so. cal. in the decades of 'free love', i had a friend who told of being raped by a woman on the hood of a car. that so-called 'laid back' mentality of the area and time allowed it to happen - he was a bit confused if it could really be what he thought, but my friends and i assured him it was so. sure, he felt initial physical enjoyment against his will, but he had never actually consented. she took advantage of his male physicality.
i know that this happens to boys and men by women, possibly even more than they remember. if any memories, thoughts, feelings of it surface, i would encourage all of you to respect them. just as rape of women is about power and control, it's the same for men. it's a violation, plain and simple. men may have different issues around it than women, but the end results are the same. you were violated, possibly thru coercion, but violated nonetheless. it wasn't your fault.
andy, i'm very sorry for what you're going thru with your wife, and i hope that situation gets positively resolved as quickly as possible. i'm just very glad this issue is finally coming out into the open more than ever before. you are all men, here, whether you can 'perform' at the moment or not. having sex does not a man make. your courage and willingness to be vulnerable in discussing such a topic is extremely manly. my hat's off to you, and a big hug to all of you. i feel proud and privileged to be a sister in recovery with you.
Sanmagic,
Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it very much. I find it a little curious that my first experience as far as I remember, with a female, was that girl telling me her story when I was only 4.
This DV thing, though, is something entirely different. And it has effected so many areas of my life. There has been times I was hurt or sick and should have stayed home. But I did my hour drive to work, just to get away from her. Worse yet I can't tell anyone anything. She grew up in the town we live in. So, anything I say to anyone can potentially get back to her. Has happened a few times.
Thank you for recognizing me. I'd like very much to have you as a sister in recovery.
done and done, bro.
Hi Sad Kid,
Regarding resources for men who were abused by women as boys, you might want to check out the Mental Illness Happy Hour (mentalpod.com), hosted by Paul Gilmartin, who has spoken on the pod as well as in interviews about being molested by his mother, and how that has really caused him problems in life, and how he sometimes feels alone because it's not talked about a lot (even though, it clearly happens). He has gone NC with his mom. The podcast itself is about all flavors of mental illness, not just CSA on boys by a woman, but it's a topic covered in at least a couple of episodes, and on other pods in which he's the interviewee.
He also recommends a book called "Silently Seduced" that covers the topic, which maybe you could check out.
I'm so sorry you went through this. Hugs to you
Just a quick post to say I'm happy to add resources here at OOTS and on Twitter about women who sexually abuse to help get the word out it's not as isolated a form of abuse as one might think. If anyone wants to write a blog article that would give voice to the issue as well. Please feel free to send me any links you come across or contact me about a blog article. :yes:
We know sex crimes are generally under reported, but having a female perpetrator adds an additional layer of difficulty to the child's disclosure of the abuse. Victims of female-perpetrated abuse report feeling silenced and isolated due to the unusual and less common abuse dynamic. Victims describe being fearful of not being believed, which can be linked to gender stereotypes such as females being nurturing and protective.
Ref: http://theconversation.com/women-who-sexually-abuse-children-are-just-as-harmful-to-their-victims-as-male-abusers-80395
Hi there :heythere: I am not sure this will help but this topic is an important one for me too. I was sexually abused by both men and women in my life. Although I am female as well there is a stigma to being abused by a female. I wish I could offer more than a quiet 'me too' and lots of support in this moment. Thank you for posting this. Anytime someone can write about the subject it can spread some awareness. :hug: Thank you for writing this :hug:
My heart breaks for all of the pain and suffering for the OP and the others. I am a woman, hurt by my mother and stepfathers. She hurt me and my sister in every way. I don't know if she ever hurt my brothers. I can't completely remember the SA but I know it was there. She also was married to a couple of awful men like her, predators.
I am sorry for your hurt and pain and I hope you find healing soon.
Just popped in to share a link to a talk on male csa, I found very helpful.
https://youtu.be/8neKS93z7Qg
Just noting she is a Christian and speaks about Christian themes as well, just warning if that could be triggering to some people.
Also just wanted to say thank you to every guy who speaks up on this, there is a tremendous amount of cultural pressure to stay silent, a friend of mine went to the police he was being attacked and assaulted by an ex girlfriend, they laughed at him and told him to man up, he replied that he would and could they sign this paper saying he tryed to get help from police but was told to take it into his own hands, so when I kill her I have evidence that I tried to get help. They changed their tone after that.
I liked his clear thinking in the face of his disgusting treatment.
Without diminishing your experience as a male, I wanted to add my voice as my first sexual abuser was a female. (That I am aware of due to blocked memories). I am a woman. Sexual abuse committed by women is definitely under-reported. It can be so isolating as it seems to be the biggest taboo to speak of. Our genders may be different, but you are not alone.
Thanks for being brave enough to say this... me too