Out of the Storm

I have no idea where this question goes, I would not be surprised to get censored or removed either. This has been my experience elsewhere with similarly hard questions. So..all you bad * Moderators, be gentle and move this to the appropriate location, if need be. Thank you in advance.

I have...me, the one that lives my life..when referring to me, I am Big Andrew, or Andrew. There is little andy, he's 3 years old, and was MIA for over 40 years. Then there is Broken Andy, he's between 11 and 12. He talks in short choppy sentences and refers to self as Andy or him. He's my punishment recipient. He also comes when something is too emotional for me. If you ever see me go from writing in generally speaking proper grammar and such, into short choppy sentences...I've dissociated and Andy is here. Also have Big Silent Andrew...never talks, just stares off into the distance with tear filled eyes.  Sort of like Kurt Russell in the movie Soldier. (I think that's the one). I think there is one more, hiding out, because I've noticed things that don't coincide with the others.

Question is....what is the explanation of this? or I don't even know what....not looking for DX, just layman's terms and such...please, anybody that wants to comment please do. Thank you.

Andrew

I'm not a moderator, but I can't see any reason to remove or censor this post, or in my case to report it!

Officially I know of the term Inner Children, which presumably includes Inner Teenagers, of which I also have a number. For me, I refer to them as Little Blueberries, or sometimes as the Inners. They've come bit by bit through therapy. At last count I had 15, but since then they have been being better integrated again. Also about 4 years ago when I was in inpatient treatment, the Ts decided I was drifting apart too much and that my Adult needed strengthening. And see, there I don't say adult Blueberry or Big Blueberry, I just capitalise adult.

Most of my Inners turned up with a more or less precise age, which I could sense. Some hold more strengths than pain or sadness or anger. For a number of years my 4 year-old and my 6 year-old were getting me out of bed in the morning. The 6 year-old is the part of me that likes to be out in nature and the 4 year-old is I think the most active part of me, and is the most consistently happy.

Not only have my Inners become better integrated over the years, but they have also learned new skills. For instance, some who used not to communicate verbally at all began to nod or shake their heads and then eventually 'speak'. I see or hear an image of that, they don't actually say anything out loud. They can all understand the language I now speak day-to-day which is not English, and I didn't speak this other language growing up.  I actually quite like to talk or write about them, which is why I've gone off on a tangent here instead of answering your other questions  ;D

The explanation. Hmm. Parts of us are locked away and they start coming back. Parts of us that couldn't show themselves before. Also parts of us that didn't realise that things have changed. I talk to my Little Blueberries e.g. that dangerous situation has changed. No danger anymore. Time has moved on.

My Little Blueberries communicate with me. They used to scoff at the idea that I could or would protect them. They were right because I couldn't very well then. Also I have learned that if I say to them or one of them not to worry, that doesn't work. It only works if I know what they are frightened of. Which makes sense. "Don't worry about the thunderstorm, it's far away" isn't going to help a child who's frightened of the dog next door.

From what I understand some people have just one or two of these, maybe one Child and one Teen or one Happy Child and one - to use your term - Broken Child. Others of us have a whole lot. Some people with a whole lot can facilitate communication among the Inners, others have a lot of trouble facilitating that. Mine can communicate with each other, or at least know that there are others there. Two of my most disturbed Inners - 7 year-old and 12 year-old - are in the same Inner Safe Place.

When the 16 year-old turned up, my Adult and quite a number of Little Ones felt flattened. But my 16 year-old is really pretty tame for a 16 year-old and she's not 'bad' or anything. Actually she likes to stay in bed and sleep. In the past, I have told her and the Babies that they could stay in bed, the rest of us would get up. And that worked. I'd forgotten about that! I could try that again ;)

What is MIA? I suppose I could look, but I'm too lazy  ;)

I can't remember offhand, but I think we have a Inner Child thread on here somewhere, if you're interested in reading other ideas and explanations. Yes, here it is: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?board=60.0 You can also ask me more if you want.

QuoteSo..all you bad * Moderators, be gentle and move this to the appropriate location, if need be. 

:rofl:

I think your thread is fine where it is.  :yes:

I have the sense of inner children, too. I sometimes invite my inner Angry Teen out when there's an unpleasant situation or conversation I must attend to. I sense another one about age three, a nine year old and a 12 year old, and the teen is about 17.

My T has said that we are each of us a bus load of people inside. It's my opinion that these parts of us have dissociated in order to preserve our sanity, but I don't know exactly how they're formed. I know they are very common among us here at OOTS so you're not alone.

MIA = missing in action.

It's interesting that you all have very specific names and details about these kind of 'identities'. And wow, a lot of them too! I'm still trying to work mine out, they are there though, definitely.

As far as I know there's 'She', doesn't have a name, but She was present a lot a few years back and She was more of an Inner Critic. She's kind of a %^&#! so I'm glad She's not around as much. Haha

Then there's a more free-spirited energetic kind of me, really living the childhood innocence I'm sure. He comes round during my darker moments to help me get back on my feet, he says all the things I'm too afraid to say to others, the one always calling for help for me.

There's one other, a more cold apathetic Aphotic (lol, try saying that 10 times in a row real fast).  She's extremely critical and judgemental but that helps me get out of tense situations where I need to defend myself, probably the part of me that wanted to fight back for years and years throughout my childhood but never could, so now she's here catching up. She's made people cry before lmao. And once I feel I'm back to just... Me, I look back at the path of destruction I just created and have to nervously laugh a little. "Oops. Did I do that?"

I'm not too sure why these things are about, but I can connect with what Blueberry said; "Parts of us are locked away and they start coming back. Parts of us that couldn't show themselves before."
Because I can definitely see all these 'inners' of mine having to hide away when I was younger.

My hunch is, trauma at a particular age splits off a part of us.  It all sounds a bit Sybil -- but a logical extension of CPTSD was what Sybil was about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_(Schreiber_book)

Sybil had DID (formerly MPD), in which the dissociation is so bad that one 'personality' can't remember what another has done -- but it's not such a wide gulf.  With acute insomnia for the past few weeks, I can forget what I've done within seconds, so that, for example, I now have the OCD thing of having to go back and check I've locked a door.  I invariably have, I just don't remember doing it.  In a 'disinhibited' state in the past, I've bought expensive dresses I wouldn't dream of wearing.  (Something just popped up to say "Oh, yes you do!" -- and I guess that must be true on some level.)

There is a Big (or adult) Candid, the one who's on board when anyone needs my help.  Since living with MIL I've got in touch with an Angry Teenager.  I guess she needed to come out!  There's also a very sad Toddler, who would do anything to help her mummy like her.

I can't see any better place to put this than under Symptoms.  Tell Broken Andy he's a good boy.  Please?

Could Big Andrew and Big Silent Andrew be the same 'you' having good days and bad days?  If I wanted to split off Current Candids I'd have to consult H.

From the Bible:
Renowned traumatologist, John Briere, is said to have quipped that if Complex PTSD were ever given its due – that is, if the role of dysfunctional parenting in adult psychological disorders was ever fully recognized, the DSM (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders used by all mental health professionals) would shrink to the size of a thin pamphlet.  It currently resembles a large dictionary. In my experience, many clients with Complex PTSD have been misdiagnosed with various anxiety and depressive disorders, as well as bipolar, narcissistic, codependent and borderline disorders. Further confusion arises in the case of ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder), as well as obsessive/compulsive disorder, which is sometimes more accurately described  as an excessive, fixated flight response to trauma. This is also true of ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) and some dissociative disorders which are similarly excessive, fixated freeze responses to trauma.

Wow!!! This was more of an answer than I ever expected!!! This calls for  :grouphug: Candid,  AphoticAtramentous, Three Roses and Blueberry...thank you all so very much.

Yes, I had thought of Sybil. I recall when some were saying that she made it all up...years later....But I personally believe maybe she and her others had integrated. And I also thought.. :pissed:...which of those naysayers walked a step, much less a mile in Sybil's shoes?  I know for a fact that the 5 of us right here right now, could at least put her shoes on a take a few steps.  I've only met one, IRL who could...and she can only put one of my shoes on.

I did look at the Inner Child, here, but it seemed more like a sense of self, what may or may not have been.  I didn't get the feeling it was such as we're discussing here.

Okay, gotta run. Work meeting starts in 30 seconds!!!  :aaauuugh:

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 08, 2017, 09:59:51 AM
I recall when some were saying that she made it all up...years later....But I personally believe maybe she and her others had integrated. And I also thought.. :pissed:...which of those naysayers walked a step, much less a mile in Sybil's shoes?

Someone cynical said to me: "It's a good novel."  As a matter of fact, it isn't.  After integration Sybil actually said, when she started dating and a man wanted to marry her, that she had been too damaged for too long to be in a position to consider it.  No happy ending.  Far too many characters rapidly introduced as therapy drew to a conclusion.  It's a terrific case study, though.

If we want to say Sybil herself (as opposed to the author) was making it up, we might as well say no child is ever brutalised by a parent.  She was a talented artist and obviously very bright, but her life was totally screwed up by a torturing mother and a father who didn't want to see the signs.

While we're nattering about famous child abuse cases, has anyone else read Dibs in Search of Self by Virginia Axline?  Dibs was lucky in that his wealthy parents got him to psychologist Axline when he was only five.  His parents didn't change, but Dibs got outside validation while he was in primary school -- and that made all the difference.

Candid,

It doesn't feel like me and silent Andrew are still me. He's been here about 5 years now...came from a time when's i was having "brain fires" .

I stare out the window all the time. Which feels like it always did...spacey until something brings me back.  Silent Andrew feels completely different and separated.

Broken Andy came from my last CPA beating...most severe of them all.  He takes my lumps and stuff which is why he came. He protects me from the emotional and mental harm of anything harmful. Mostly stuff that triggers me or upsets me...he steps in.  He keeps me safe, so he is a good boy.

There is another...but only have sensations of them, no real knowledge of them yet.  But sometimes I feel them looking out watching what I'm doing.

This is a good discussion of a topic that many people would not understand. My default is a very frightened 3 year old. I have others but I don't have such a clear impression of the age. Sometimes I just go somewhere in my head - I know not where - and I cannot talk when this happens. And I have a persona that interfaces quite well with the world in which I work. I notice that there are several books about our 'fragmented selves' so I think this is pretty common.

If you have an 'adult' version of yourself that can help, soothe, comfort, console your younger parts that can be very helpful. I have a hard time staying in 'adult' mode long enough to do this but I am working on that.

This discussion of inners/outers/etc. brought to mind a book I started once but didn't finish. It bears the wordy title of "Self-Therapy: A Step-By-Step Guide to Creating Wholeness and Healing Your Inner Child Using IFS, A New, Cutting-Edge Psychotherapy". The author has been a therapist; what I recall of what I did read was a little bit of self-aggrandizement about the lasting and sure benefits of this approach but nonetheless the concept was interesting.

The IFS refers to what he calls the "Internal Family System", which I resisted at first as I thought he was referring to FOOs, and I want nothing to do with mine ever again, either in analysis or theory about its non-functionality--I numb up at the thought. No, his IFS refers to one's own inner characters, whether or not they resemble the FOO. They're those little voices we hear whispering (or shouting) at us. Sometimes they originate from within the FOO but they can develop independently as well.

I never did finish the book, but the concept of the many inner characters I found intriguing; just couldn't get over my block at the word family (sounds weird, I know; but so much of this is). Doesn't mean others might not find it useful, which is why I mention it.

Another, older and more scholarly read was "What We May Be" by Piero Ferruci and summarized an Italian-derived psychotherapy known as psychosynthesis. It includes a lot of discussion as well relating to the inner characters that inhabit our mind's 'theatre' and influences our lives.

While I don't devour books of this sort anymore in favour of more direct interpersonal therapy that I find more meaningful, books like these can be good adjuncts to trying to figure out what's going on.

Quote from: Whobuddy on September 10, 2017, 01:19:12 AM
This is a good discussion of a topic that many people would not understand.

lol thinking about the poor dears even reading this. They'll be sitting there  ??? :stars: ???

Quote from: Whobuddy on September 10, 2017, 01:19:12 AM
My default is a very frightened 3 year old. I have others but I don't have such a clear impression of the age. Sometimes I just go somewhere in my head - I know not where - and I cannot talk when this happens. And I have a persona that interfaces quite well with the world in which I work.

The first of mine that turned up was the 7 year old when I was in inpatient T the first time (about 15 years ago), and she stayed pretty close to the surface for a good number of weeks. She was certainly default for a long time. Bit by bit through therapy, others have come. Sometimes there's not a persona per se but 'something else' like a black cube. No idea if that might have turned into an Inner or not. I've done a lot of Inner Child T in groups. Have the good luck to live in a country where there are a few therapists who evolved their own method. It was a life-saver for me, at a time when I couldn't find any outpatient trauma T in my region of the country. In Inner Child group therapy it was very important for me to gain contact with Inners who held strengths before I could move onto more 'disturbed' ones.

Unfortunately I don't have anybody who interfaces well with the working world. It's one of my problems. I need a level of language and worldly understanding that a 16 year old just doesn't have.

Quote from: Whobuddy on September 10, 2017, 01:19:12 AM
If you have an 'adult' version of yourself that can help, soothe, comfort, console your younger parts that can be very helpful. I have a hard time staying in 'adult' mode long enough to do this but I am working on that.

I can stay better in Adult mode now to soothe and comfort (so there is hope!) but often I still feel that my Adult doesn't have all the answers / all the necessary information to console. Or maybe it is because I've slipped back into one of my Inners without really noticing.

It is a good topic here, thanks to Andyman for starting!

Over the years when my T has talked about dissociation, I've always had the sense that she was using it to mean two different things.  She used it to mean the kind of zoning out or blocking off of emotions and past experiences that were simply too much to handle.  (You can also think of it as compartmentalizing--putting that which is way too overwhelming in a box over there and forgetting all about it.)

But then she'd use the term dissociation in a way that I'm realizing now was used somewhat interchangeably with "fragmentation."  We would discuss my personality as being fragmented; that is, the different parts that make up the entire personality were separate and not "talking" to each other.  During development in which the child is not severely traumatized, these fragments come together naturally.  So, the shy, 4-your-old child and the outgoing 16-year-old live happily together.  When one is at the forefront, the other is still there, not lost. 

However, if you've been severely traumatized, each is distinct, so that when one is at the forefront, it is as if that is ALL of who you are.  So, at the times I've been triggered and feel as though I'm an awful, disgusting, stupid person and that there is no reason to live...that's all that's there.  I can't access the hiker me or the mother me or the playful me.  They no longer exist.  I think that's what makes some of our EFs so painful and difficult to find our way out of.

Anyhow, I just yesterday quite coincidentally came across the term "structural dissociation" which names that 2nd type of dissociation I always understood as fragmentation.  (I say 2nd type, but I don't think they're really two different things, which is probably why my  therapist never spoke of them as being different things altogether.)  I haven't read the whole research article, but skimmed enough to understand that it was talking about what I know to be fragmentation.

I hope this makes sense.  I know that through lots of hard work on my part and my therapist's part I'm feeling much more "solid," which I think is another way of saying I feel less fragmented.  I don't plummet to the depths I used to and I'm able to come out of those depths more quickly these days. 

Fascinating stuff these survival mechanisms!

Quote from: Kat on September 10, 2017, 06:33:55 PM
However, if you've been severely traumatized, each is distinct, so that when one is at the forefront, it is as if that is ALL of who you are.  So, at the times I've been triggered and feel as though I'm an awful, disgusting, stupid person and that there is no reason to live...that's all that's there.  I can't access the hiker me or the mother me or the playful me.  They no longer exist.  I think that's what makes some of our EFs so painful and difficult to find our way out of.

Sounds about right!

I described my fragmentation as some kind of 'bipolar on speed' when I was undiagnosed. lol The way my self-esteem would just crash down was just so strange to me. But especially during those certain times of being triggered, or at least for me, it's extremely hard to get out of that state because all I can think of is; "What's the point" or "I deserve this anyway".
That's one of the reasons why I struggled so hard to find a psychologist for the longest of time because one half of me was; "Everything is fine. Things are fine. I don't need any help!", and the other half was; "Things are the worst, but I'm so terrible I don't deserve the help anyway". What a nightmare that was!

This is a brilliant thread and gives me further hope that time and therapy can heal the parts of us locked in bubbles in the past. The way my therapist described it is that the parts of us traumatised often get locked in that trauma and sometimes it's just the feelings. These parts do not recognise chronological progression and each time we feel them it's as if that feeling or that time is in the present.

Finding other parts of us (inner child/ teenager/ adult / inner / others) is a good thing as we then can see that part of us.  Sometimes we help them, sometimes they help us. I have lots too, but I've further created a Compassionate Companion (CC) which is a much older and wiser me who can calm me when nothing else can.  I see her as a more integrated me who has come through this terrible journey.

As my healing progresses I become less aware of those other parts of me and often have to work to conjure them up. This is a good sign as it means I am beginning to integrate those parts in the present day.

Great topic guys and very worthwhile.

In all of my social media experience, I never had a thread generate this kind of interest in such a short amount of time. Most of the time I have to keep feeding my own thread to keep it on life support. And even then most of them die off anyway. 
So I am very humbled by all of you here.
This is far beyond my typical response.

I've often questioned my belonging, on another website, because my topics seemed invisible.  How does one fit in, when nobody seems to care enough to notice. And if they see and don't post even an emoji to say they saw me, that just tells me I'm beyond their understanding.  And as you all have seen here, I certainly don't talk above peoples heads.

This all leads to a self-destructive persona coming out. He is very vocal sometimes even has control over my voice, and SH behaviors.  He is also the one that thinks we are too far gone to save, and thinks that nobody cares. And that they won't miss us when we're gone anyway.

I must confess that more than half the things you all have said, is just beyond my scope to understand what ya'll said.
I just feel so dumb, like there was a training class before this, and everyone went but me.

I *know* my mind works differently. Critical thinking doesn't exist for me. There isn't a time that I feel smart or knowledgeable.

Hmmm....wonder if these times of overwhelming emotions are different parts of me that are less defined than the ones mentioned previously?

Question....does anyone have an active relationship with someone and some of their others?  Should that question be its own thread?  I only ask this, because I do.

Thank you so very much to you all who have joined this conversation, and think it brilliant. ☺️

QuoteI've often questioned my belonging, on another website, because my topics seemed invisible.  How does one fit in, when nobody seems to care enough to notice. And if they see and don't post even an emoji to say they saw me, that just tells me I'm beyond their understanding.  And as you all have seen here, I certainly don't talk above peoples heads.

I know how you feel there, definitely. So many places I've tried to fit in but I just feel so different and alien it seems impossible to relate to anyone and for anyone to relate to me.
But don't feel you are 'dumb', please! You are most certainly not.  If there was a 'training class' you missed out on, doesn't mean you can't ever take it. ^-^ Classes usually repeat annually don't they?  ;) And if there's ever something you don't understand you can ask! I'm sure we'd be happy to answer whatever question you throw at us, to the best of our ability. :)

QuoteQuestion....does anyone have an active relationship with someone and some of their others?  Should that question be its own thread?  I only ask this, because I do.

I personally think that should be its own thread, an interesting topic though. :) I'm all for it.

Just some  quick observations:

1. We have all at some point felt that we were different / stupid/ not as smart / invisible - that is what CPTSD does to us. I should have known better as I have a PhD but often still feel stupid!
2. Yes I have active relationships with other parts of myself, they sustain me every day.
3. I have often deleted things I've posted on sites when I felt I was invisible and/or unheard.
4. You are never alone - we are all part of common humanity.

:hug:

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 11, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
In all of my social media experience, I never had a thread generate this kind of interest in such a short amount of time. Most of the time I have to keep feeding my own thread to keep it on life support. And even then most of them die off anyway. 

The only real social media experience I have is here and OOTF, the sister website. I definitely get more response here. In fact at OOTF posts will often continue on the thread as if I haven't written anything. I'm not that surprised I get a better response here. OOTS was created after OOTF for a reason.

Here at OOTS in the back of my mind I know there are threads I've wanted to post on again - and maybe I still will when I get round to it  ;)  - but time plays a role. Or sometimes I feel too confused somehow to verbalise at all.

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 11, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
This is far beyond my typical response.

As I write from time to time in deep-felt gratitude, OOTS is absolutely brilliant. Thanks to everybody on here and especially to the moderators who keep it safe, e.g. from derogatory remarks and from us berating each other or doing one-upmanship or that kind of thing. That may be what you're noticing here  :bigwink:

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 11, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
.... self-destructive persona coming out. He is very vocal sometimes even has control over my voice, and SH behaviors.  He is also the one that thinks we are too far gone to save, and thinks that nobody cares. And that they won't miss us when we're gone anyway.

If you don't mind me saying so, sounds like an EF to me. I have something like this too, at least a voice who suggests I throw in the towel, but the voice has been getting less active, less 'around'. I don't think it's an Inner Child. Not sure what it is exactly. I know it's horrible when the voice comes up again, and I imagine worse if you feel a persona attached to the voice. It has been getting better, but as a general result of therapy rather than any specific exercise.

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 11, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
I must confess that more than half the things you all have said, is just beyond my scope to understand what ya'll said.
I just feel so dumb, like there was a training class before this, and everyone went but me.

I *know* my mind works differently. Critical thinking doesn't exist for me. There isn't a time that I feel smart or knowledgeable.

We're all at different stages of our therapy and self-learning - whereever we are and however we're engaged in healing. As I've posted recently, I've had the good luck to take part in multiple Inner Child workshops, which really increased my understanding and especially my own grasp of what was going on within me. Nothing to do with being dumb or intelligent! My FOO told me I was dumb for a couple of decades and after that just intimated it.  Could be something like that happened to you. It doesn't sound to me e.g. based on what and how you write that you are 'dumb'. 

Also in my experience a lot of understanding / grasping these kinds of topics is based not just on analytical understanding. I often have to really feel things how they are or were in my own life before I really understand. That certainly hasn't to do with intellectual intelligence. Could be connected to emotional intelligence (but that's certainly not what FOO meant when they were telling me how unintelligent I was, they were thinking of intellectual only), but I think it's connected more to where I am in my healing journey. How much can I really feel? Admit to myself? Remember? Allow to re-surface? What I don't grasp / understand: it's too early for me to understand. In fact sometimes it's not till months or even years later that I finally understand something a therapist or even fellow patient said to me.

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 11, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
Hmmm....wonder if these times of overwhelming emotions are different parts of me that are less defined than the ones mentioned previously?

They could be an EF. Wonder what others think?

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 11, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
Question....does anyone have an active relationship with someone and some of their others?    I only ask this, because I do.

Some of my Inner Children (and Teens) are more active than others. Usually the ones I've worked with more OR the ones I've ignored are more active. The latter are more disturbingly active. The former are more usefully active, like more able to communicate what's wrong, what they need from me to be able to calm down again. I definitely have more of an active relationship with the ones I've worked with. I've worked with most in therapy, rather than on my own. Or at least got a good start at working with them in therapy, before managing on my own. I feel very lucky, as I've said, that there are a few therapists in my country who developed their own Inner Child methods when I was at that stage in my process.

Thank you for starting this thread. If you have any specific questions, where you feel what I've written is beyond your scope, feel free to ask. I'll try and get back to you on it.

QuoteI have something like this too, at least a voice who suggests I throw in the towel, but the voice has been getting less active, less 'around'. I don't think it's an Inner Child. Not sure what it is exactly.

This sounds like an inner critic voice, which is a construct and not a "little" or alt.

QuoteA flashback-inducing critic is typically spawned in a danger-laden childhood home. When parents do not provide safe enough bonding and attachment, the child flounders in abandonment fear and depression. Many children appear to be hard-wired to adapt to this endangering abandonment with perfectionism.

(http://www.pete-walker.com/shrinkingInnerCritic.htm)

At times when my inner critic won't be silent, i help myself not take that voice so seriously by making her wear a groucho marx nose & mustache in my imagination. it's harder to take her vitriol to heart. ;)

 :grouphug:
You all are just amazing. 
Can one of ya'll clue me in on what EF stands for? I know there is a list somewhere, but my tech Kung Fu is weak.

As for my posting experiences, it may well be that this place OOTS is focused on cptsd...and all things that have to do with it. And that's what really makes it work for me. I belong to a Veterans only site, that deals with issues with the VA disability claims process. But that covers the entire range of disability claims, and not just ptsd or cptsd. I also belong to a survivor site, which unlike the Veterans site, I have a reasonably strong presence there. But it covers the entire arena of sex crime survivors, of which I have extensive trauma from. So I tend to get lost very easily there. My only saving grace is my natural gift of loving and accepting everyone unconditionally.  While the Vet site can get a little testy, there is little tolerance for disrespect. And on the survivor site, there is zero tolerance. As should be, so many of us survivors have been retraumatized by victim blaming/shaming( like my wife has done to me). So the mods there are tenacious in their duties to protect us. And I so very much appreciate them!!!

However, OOTS is like the pearl in the oyster for me. I really love my oyster, the survivor site. And this here pearl is the icing on the cake!

I'm sorry...Blueberry, I really did try to Keep up with you. I sorry..I struggled to pay attention after the half way mark. Was getting confused and lost. I didn't want to....just happened. 😔

Guess I feel dumb because I used to feel smarter. Had a good IQ, and was able to think about things. But when memory started going bad, thinking skills went with it. I work in a warehouse moving inventory around on a forklift and shipping stuff all over the world. But it's easy. And very low stress. And I love it! But I can't handle stressful jobs, like being in charge of people and stuff like that. I can't even do some of the jobs I've actually held, anymore.😔

Okay, seems my question should be it's own thread, and I didn't ask it correctly based on ya'lls answers. 😋 I was trying to ask about Having interaction with someone else's others, not just my own.
I will pose this as it's own thread and give my example so ya'll can see what I mean. Okay?  :grouphug:

You guys are the best!!!
🤗🤗🤗💐💐💐😁😁😁

EF stands for emotional flashback. There's more in the glossary - http://www.outofthestorm.website/cptsd-glossary/
:heythere:

Agree with others, definitely sounds more inner critic or EF than inner child. CPTSD can make you feel a lot less smart as it's the reptilian part of the brain affected and not the intellectual part. It can also cause you to get problems with processing and brain fog caused by the stress of It all.

Quote from: Three Roses on September 12, 2017, 05:30:18 PM
This sounds like an inner critic voice, which is a construct and not a "little" or alt.

QuoteA flashback-inducing critic is typically spawned in a danger-laden childhood home. When parents do not provide safe enough bonding and attachment, the child flounders in abandonment fear and depression. Many children appear to be hard-wired to adapt to this endangering abandonment with perfectionism.

(http://www.pete-walker.com/shrinkingInnerCritic.htm)

Thanks 3Roses, had a look at the link. That sounds about right. Last time I read that info I couldn't take any of it in. Today, I can.

Thank you 🌹🌹🌹

I also experience these things. It's like each collection of similar memories is a separate person inside my brain. I can't remember my life because the memories are locked away in those other selves. I definitely have EF where those people take over and I go away but I also hear their thoughts in my mind almost all the time. It's very noisy in my head sometimes.

Can't really contribute but I wanted to say I'm feeling it too.

Quote from: CepheidVox on September 17, 2017, 04:32:22 PM
I also experience these things. It's like each collection of similar memories is a separate person inside my brain. I can't remember my life because the memories are locked away in those other selves. I definitely have EF where those people take over and I go away but I also hear their thoughts in my mind almost all the time. It's very noisy in my head sometimes.

Could have written the exact same thing, with the exception that most of my amnesia is centred in childhood.

Most of the time, my "others" (don't know how to call them, "alter" doesn't seem right, "head mates" either) don't speak though. Possibly a consequence of being told to "shut up", "keep quiet about this", "never say a word"? If they communicate it's through bursts of emotions, abstract shapes and colours, sometimes wordless screams. One of them spends months "sleeping", only waking up to scream as if someone was trying to kill her, then goes back to sleep again. Another one is constantly terrified and freezes when confronted to a trigger. She's probably responsible for my panic attacks. Then there's the cat, a playful, curious and happy little thing, and the soothing guardian tree, and the super observant ghost who's protected by being invisible but as a result cannot interact with the outside world. And many others.

It's as if every positive representation of myself is non-human. I guess it talks of how I feel unable to trust people, and see most of humanity in the very worst light.

Quote from: CepheidVox on September 17, 2017, 04:32:22 PM
I also experience these things. It's like each collection of similar memories is a separate person inside my brain. I can't remember my life because the memories are locked away in those other selves. I definitely have EF where those people take over and I go away but I also hear their thoughts in my mind almost all the time. It's very noisy in my head sometimes.

Can't really contribute but I wanted to say I'm feeling it too.

You just did contribute! Thank you CV! Safe  :hug: if okay.

Lim,

Thank you for sharing that. I've heard of animal inners(?) but you are the first I've had contact with. I have a lot of dissociative amnesia in both childhood and adulthood.

Andrew

Quote from: Liminality on September 17, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
Most of the time, my "others" ... don't speak though.

I have a therapy bear who represented a small, unhappy Inner Child. For a long time Bear couldn't communicate at all with language. Bear understood quite a lot but couldn't express. Then Bear started to nod or shake his head. Then eventually to speak. Bear is bilingual now, using both my native language and the language of the country I now live in. So, just saying, these things can and do change.

Quote from: Liminality on September 17, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
If they communicate it's through bursts of emotions, abstract shapes and colours, sometimes wordless screams.

I've had some of this too. Usually when I couldn't cope at all in my Adult and often when a non-trauma-informed therapist was trying to push me too far.

Quote from: Liminality on September 17, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
Then there's the cat, a playful, curious and happy little thing, and the soothing guardian tree, and the super observant ghost who's protected by being invisible but as a result cannot interact with the outside world.

Sounds like Inner Helpers, in fact you can have a whole Inner Team on board.  :cheer: for you for coming up with these 'others'.  I say  :cheer: because I had help and encouragement coming up with mine e.g. through Ego State therapy and all the Inner Child workshops I did. It seems yours have come up on their own, without outside help except from you?

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 21, 2017, 03:44:35 PM

Quote from: CepheidVox on September 17, 2017, 04:32:22 PM
I also experience these things. It's like each collection of similar memories is a separate person inside my brain. I can't remember my life because the memories are locked away in those other selves. I definitely have EF where those people take over and I go away but I also hear their thoughts in my mind almost all the time. It's very noisy in my head sometimes.

Can't really contribute but I wanted to say I'm feeling it too.

You just did contribute!

:yeahthat: Thanks from me too!

I've been asked before, though possibly not on this thread, if I can explain more about the therapy I have done e.g. on Inner Children. I can't really, I find it so complex. When I google for something similar in the English-speaking world, it seems not to exist. This is a shame! You'd think in this day and age there'd be more cooperation and international learning going on between two first-world countries, but I guess not. 

The best idea I could give anybody who is interested is: try googling Ego State Therapy. It contains some of what I've learned over the years. But really just by reading I wouldn't have got where I am today. I needed somebody to do it with me. A T did work with me for a while with Ego State Therapy but he missed on getting me properly protected before we went into processing.  I have my Inner Safe Place from then and also a number of Inner Helpers including animals, e.g. one who worked as a babysitter for the very small Inner Children.
For Ego State Therapy to work, you'd need to have a trauma-informed T, I think. Mine wasn't and that caused all sorts of problems.

The therapists who do the Inner Child workshops have backgrounds in various different therapy types, but they are all trauma-informed. I think I just had incredible luck to find them at just the time I really needed them, but me attempting to put that work into words to help anybody on here - I can't do it.

Quote from: Andyman73 on September 21, 2017, 03:48:48 PM
Lim,
Thank you for sharing that. I've heard of animal inners(?) but you are the first I've had contact with. I have a lot of dissociative amnesia in both childhood and adulthood.
Andrew

Hello Andrew, did we meet? Andy and I have shared a little on another thread a few days ago, but if you're not the "same" Andrew, happy to meet you! :) (If you're the same one, please ignore me ;D)
As I was doing research this week, I've read non-human insiders are less common than human ones, which surprised me as I have a few of them. But I guess it's not that surprising, seeing as I was brainwashed into thinking all humans were evil and out to get me. There was no trust with humans when I was a child, and that the most "happy"/"carefree"/"soothing") parts of myself are animals and trees makes sense, just like the happiest memories I still have from childhood are from spending time with animals or alone in nature.

Quote from: Blueberry on September 21, 2017, 09:27:27 PM
I have a therapy bear who represented a small, unhappy Inner Child. For a long time Bear couldn't communicate at all with language. Bear understood quite a lot but couldn't express. Then Bear started to nod or shake his head. Then eventually to speak. Bear is bilingual now, using both my native language and the language of the country I now live in. So, just saying, these things can and do change.

That's great! So happy for you and Bear. May I ask if you have tricks to help the little ones inside communicate better, even if not vocally? Right now their communication is more than a little chaotic and becomes quickly painful when they scream.

Quote from: Blueberry on September 21, 2017, 09:27:27 PM
Sounds like Inner Helpers, in fact you can have a whole Inner Team on board.  :cheer: for you for coming up with these 'others'.  I say  :cheer: because I had help and encouragement coming up with mine e.g. through Ego State therapy and all the Inner Child workshops I did. It seems yours have come up on their own, without outside help except from you?

It's complicated. I've learned yesterday that I have a lot more amnesia than I thought I had, so my best guess is that some parts of myself are more "conscious" of them than others. When those parts "disappear" to the back of my head, so do the memories and everything related to the existence of my insiders.
But the medical abuse I went through at the hospital caused so much confusion, shock, and chaos that it burned my whole sense of self to the ground. So the best thing I can come up with is that it must have broken down some barriers inside as well. I've only started hearing their screams intermittently after I got out.

On the other hand I've had an inner mindscape since very young, as I was encouraged early to develop my imagination (no wonder why). When I read something about "Memory Palaces" in the "Hannibal" books by Thomas Harris in my late teens, I tried to make one for myself and while attempting to picture the house I lived in at the time, (re)discovered both my first home (where Kaylee lives) and what I used to call the "Magic Island" when I was something like five. When I first stumbled on it I thought it was mine alone, but in truth I have no control on how it appears and only have access to about 10%, the rest is (currently?) blocked off or unreachable (tall and abrupt cliffs, holes in the ground, etc.). So I guess my insiders live there somewhere, more or less protected from even myself.

Thank you for the information on Ego State Therapy. I'll read on that, maybe prepare and bring some reading material when I get assigned to a new T. It's so helpful. :hug:

Yeah Lim, it was me. Sometimes I sign one way and sometimes the other. I don't control it. It comes the way it does as it chooses

Andrew

Okay! Just wanted to be sure. :))

Quote from: Liminality on September 23, 2017, 01:07:35 PM
Okay! Just wanted to be sure. :))

Oh yeah, no problem.

QuoteI hope it's okay if I join this thread.

Sunrise, all are welcome on my threads. I want and need what you with to share. Everybody brings something to the table.

Sunrise, I had no idea of these different parts. So..I don't even know exactly what mine are. Little andy is a toddler from my earliest csa. Broken Andy is his guardian, also steps in when I get emotionally overwhelmed...he hasn't fronted IRL as far as I know(!?!)But can be seen online. He is 11 and writes in short choppy sentences and talks in 3rd person. Big Silent Andrew is full grown adult who may be mute. He just sits or stands and stares off into the distance with tear filled eyes.  I think there is a 5-6 year old here and a young adult..or older teen. Don't know, somebody is quite interested in the comings and goings here and on the survivor community I also belong to.

I never ever questioned this whole thing. Even as a kid...wonder if cuz I was already a part of it?  When I first heard about Sybil...all I could think was...well...yeah, duh!  :yes:  And it's been mostly proven we humans only use an average of 10% of our gray matter...so who is to say what can't be????

Sunrise...I see you. You Do Matter...all of you.  :grouphug:

Could be it's own board...that's a good idea.

i was referred here by another member, and am now feeling overwhelmed and nervous about posting.  i wrote in my journal wondering about alters, which i really haven't seen mentioned here.  i don't know if what i'm talking about is the same as the rest of you.

i can recognize my inner child - she is anywhere from a baby to about 6, i think, but i really don't have the experience with her that i'm reading about here.  in essence, she is just the younger, bewildered version of myself who . . . i don't know how to explain her.  i've put her in the care of an angel, an image i found and printed out of an angel holding a baby. 

my questions, which i wrote about in my journal, were wondering if i have alters, a brand new concept for me to even think about.  dang, i'm near tears now - very nervous, feeling very fragile at the moment.  anyway, many years ago, i had completed the educational part needed to become a certified addictions counselor.  the next step was to get into an internship for 18 mos. to complete the requirements.

when i showed up for the interview, i was just me.  when i walked thru the door, it was as if i stayed outside, and someone else sat down at the desk.  that someone was purely gray, like a great glob of gray clay, and had an extremely flat voice.  i am normally very colorful and upbeat, so i didn't know what was happening or how it happened. 

the interview went abysmally.  i stayed gray and flat thru the whole thing, all my personality gone, answered the questions, and left.  as soon as i was outside the office, i was my regular self again.  i noted this, and have remembered this, and never consciously acknowledged it to anyone, except in a lighthearted manner. 

(as it turned out, another job that i'd wanted was offered to me a few weeks later, one that i wouldn't have been able to accept if i'd been able to do the internship.  at the time, i just said 'god works in mysterious ways', and left it at that.)

a few weeks ago, i had to answer some questions over the phone before my mri.  nothing brutal, mainly do you have any metal in your body type stuff, but i noticed that the gray persona with the flat voice answered the questions, very short, abrupt 'no', 'no', 'no'.  my personality was again gone, don't know where it went.  and, again, it felt like i had been possessed.  i couldn't change how i was answering the questions. 

after i hung up, i turned to my d, and i was fine again.  then, a few days ago, there was a mistake with an appt. for this new t i'm to see tomorrow, and i heard myself speaking in this high-pitched, chirpy voice 'i'm so sorry' several times, when i really had nothing to apologize for.  i don't know why the mistake was made or who made it.  i sounded like a valley girl or something, which i most definitely am not and never have been.

could these be alters?  i'm consciously acknowledging this phenomenon today, something i hadn't really done too much in the past.   i'm very confused about this.  i also have different tones of voice that come out, even when saying 'hi' to people i pass.  is this normal?  if this t works out tomorrow, i'll certainly ask her about it, but i reckon that'll be somewhere down the line. 

just thought of one more time when i'd act very differently than usual.  when my ex and i went to couples counseling, i would almost disappear into a shell, would hardly speak (even tho i had plenty to say) was afraid of coming off as an overblown gritch so i let him do most of the talking.  when i did talk, my voice was very small and quiet.  that is definitely not the usual me - i'm loud and big.

any opinions, thoughts, whatnot would be appreciated.   i don't have a handle on 'inners' like i've read about here, or anything about ages and such.  just these few examples of a personality and voice change that baffles me.  i've only just had some realizations that i've experienced depersonalization, don't know if this is related.  that's been more of hearing voices talking to me in my head, and doing or saying things without planning to.  they just come out of me without any will behind them - no plans, no beforethoughts, just pop out and i wonder where that came from, that it wasn't me.

this is all very new to me and i don't quite know what to make of it.  i nearly didn't write this cuz it was scaring the crapola out of me to acknowledge it again, twice in one day.  ugh!  whack-a-mole.   i had no idea i was so messed up.

Hey San, read your post in your journal, read your snippet here. Just wanted to say you're really not alone. I am VERY familiar with this kind of stuff, been living with these things for a while. I'm not sure what they are scientifically/officially... but I do label them as alters. In another thread (http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=7419.msg49402#msg49402) I described three different types of alters and I believe you're experiencing the second type in particular.

Quote#2. The alter(s) that slip in unnoticed, they are more just like different versions of yourself, reacting and thinking differently to how you normally would but you can remember most things. These ones come involuntarily and I believe they are influenced by who you are with at the time/what you are doing.

Does that sound about right?
(This is my own theory work by the way, gathered from my own and others' experiences so take my words with a grain of salt, please. :P)

But I too have alters like that. One that is very upbeat and chipper, responding to things loudly and optimistically. Then another that is very 'down', says 'yes' and 'no' and is just generally rather quiet and keeps to herself. They usually come about when I'm talking and interacting with others, and really impact the way things are handled. And yes, they have different tones of voice and all. :) I haven't discussed much of this with my T, I'd be interested to know what your T thinks though, I'm sure she'd have something a lot more educated to say about it than my own theories. Haha
Don't be nervous about this though, please. I'm so happy you've posted about this! I don't know why but the idea of inners and alters intrigues the * out of me and I'm always so happy to read about other people's experiences on this matter. :D Really makes me feel less alone, and I hope you feel the same!
:hug:

aa, that sounded exactly right.  thank you.  yes, it does feel good not to feel alone with this, but it's making me aware that i'm way more messed up in my mind than i ever imagined! 

i realized another one last nite, who's only appeared twice as well.  once when i was a teen, once a few months ago.   my sis was/is a bully, and we fought all the time, she getting the best end of the deal always.  one day it was like i snapped, started pushing her down the hall of our house, didn't stop till she got to the other end.  couldn't have stopped myself if i wanted to.  it was like a reaction to the 'last straw'.

then, just before i left mex., my hub admitted to pulling a 'fast one' that he'd hidden from me for a month.  again, i snapped, started yelling and screaming, calling names (something i never do to people) and went on until it was all out.  thinking about these 2 incidents, it's like a pressure cooker thing.  the pressure finally gets to a point of explosion, and there's just no stopping it voluntarily.

i suppose these anger alters are there to protect me in some way from tolerating more than my emotional mind can handle.  i'm normally a very, exceedingly tolerant person (with the alexithymia, i didn't have anger in my emotional repertoire),  only getting in touch with past anger.  present anger is still kind of a mystery to me. 

boy, it's weird to wrap my head around the idea that i have alternate personalities who just show up every so often unbidden, do their thing, then recede back to wherever they  live.  what a mess!  i'm too old for this crud - it seems like every week or so there's something new i need to deal with, process, get used to, adjust to.  this is the twilight of my years, for crying out loud.

thanks, aa, for your theories.  they fit for me.  i appreciate it very much.  big hug to you.

Absolutely, I can definitely relate too... I've maybe got different parts of me but they're not that well defined.

Then again I didn't even know I have c-ptsd till a month ago. I had no therapy. I don't find it easy to trust therapists after being misdiagnosed and mislabeled and re-traumatized as a teen as part of my parents' attempt to silence me (I was the dumb kid who tried to speak up and stop what was going on).

So I obviously don't know myself, so I don't know. I feel a little like I'm waking up from a dream. But I do remember violently "splitting" off from myself a few times in childhood. I didn't know what was happening at the time, so "splitting" was the only word I had for it. On a few bad occasions I remember that I woke up and then the instant I woke up and I remembered what had happened my mind snapped, like there was a very loud thud and I "split". I never told anyone about these splits before. I do have some seriously messed up memories chronologically, years and memories going backwards and forwards in ways that make no sense, contradictory memories.

Hope this isn't as confusing as it feels as I'm writing it now.

Quote from: ah on October 02, 2017, 04:12:09 PM
(I was the dumb kid who tried to speak up and stop what was going on).

ah, I was this kid too in FOO. But I don't think "dumb" is the correct word for us then. We were in fact very intelligent - we saw through the lies and deception. We were also very brave, and I was loyal - I tried to save FOO repeatedly. You maybe did too - I don't have your history at my finger tips. I was tenacious and persevered (too) long. You quite possibly have these two latter characteristics too. These are all good characteristics! We just had the misfortune to be born into families who didn't appreciate it one little bit.

Just wanted to say that, though you probably want a comment on splitting. I think it used to be called 'splitting' so no worries there. I may be different from some people on here in that my different parts came bit by bit through therapy. I'm not sure. I'll leave others on here to comment on this.

sanmagic7,
Thank you for being so brave for posting on this thread. I wish I could answer your questions. I don't know nuthin bout nuthin...so I depend on the informed words of others like the lovely blueberry.

I know my childhood was rather chaotic. I endured csa/r/cpa and dv type abuses, then went into the U.S. Marines out of high school, where I was indoctrinated in MC based programming after being systemically broken down, having the individual removed, and programmed into a near autonomous Marine. The ability to feel and deal with non agressive emotions was blocked by the whole MC/programming during basic training. I've literally just come to realize this in the past week or so. After some pa and sa and loads of mental and emotional abuse in the Marines, I married a CN who continued on DV abusing me...adult sa, pa, mental, emotional, verbal abuse of me.

My memories have only been returning since this year...going back 42 years. And for all that time....probably 30% is lost time, hidden, missing or just no longer existing memory.  Deja vu has been a constant in my life since young childhood...between that and trying to tell my parents things...I was denied, ignored, rebuffed, told I lied as easy as breathing, talk too much, stories far to fantastical to be true, outlandish, over embellished...and just plain old fashioned unbelievable. This was as recent as 4 years ago at age 40.

All I can say for sure...someone experienced the deja vu memories when they happened, because someone else had the deja vu and tried to tell mommy and daddy.

Let me tell you all this....I do not remember anything I ever ever ever told my parents...even from 4 years ago, that I was told then, couldn't be true or real. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I got in trouble for stuff that I never remembered having done.  Oh, and neither of my brothers ever really got intouble for anyting.

As for thuds and obvious splitting sensations...don't remember. I have a loud explosion noise in my head...which I think is a sound memory from my 2 childhood concussions...both which were severe enough to be TBI...I know after the second one...where I was unconcious for maybe up to 10 minutes...was when I began floating away into the trees during school, and ever since...even now...I was 6 years old when got that second concussion(thanks mommy).

OH yeah...welcome to this exciting discussion thread!  :)

Quote from: Andyman73 on October 05, 2017, 05:47:21 PM
I don't know nuthin bout nuthin...so I depend on the informed words of others like the lovely blueberry.

:) Thank you for the compliment, Andyman.
However,I don't think you're as clueless as you're suggesting. I may know more theory on this topic and I have got inner parts better sorted and quite a few fairly well integrated, but you on the other hand seem to be aware of your parts and can speak directly from them. Without even having done any therapy. Wow.  :applause: :applause:

Quote from: Blueberry on October 05, 2017, 06:10:36 PM

Quote from: Andyman73 on October 05, 2017, 05:47:21 PM
I don't know nuthin bout nuthin...so I depend on the informed words of others like the lovely blueberry.

:) Thank you for the compliment, Andyman.
However,I don't think you're as clueless as you're suggesting. I may know more theory on this topic and I have got inner parts better sorted and quite a few fairly well integrated, but you on the other hand seem to be aware of your parts and can speak directly from them. Without even having done any therapy. Wow.  :applause: :applause:

Oh, well, Blueberry...trust me...I really don't know, like informed knowledge. I don't understand any of it, really. And I haven't told anyone, neither of my ts or anybody else, IRL. What I know, is what I learned on the other online community I belong to. But honestly...can't let them speak directly, as the moderators there keep a sharp eye out on things. And only the account owner is officially allowed to speak. Which indirectly, really hurts...makes them, and me feel invisible and invalidated. I know it's not done out of spite or anything, just the rules. 

I even had a friend tell me they can't handle talking with them...for their own issues, which also feels hard, too. So...not all fun and games. I really appreciate your support and kindness. You are quite the wonderful friend.  :hug:

QuoteBut honestly...can't let them speak directly, as the moderators there keep a sharp eye out on things. And only the account owner is officially allowed to speak. Which indirectly, really hurts...makes them, and me feel invisible and invalidated. I know it's not done out of spite or anything, just the rules. 

I get how you feel there. I would love to be more open with my alters, I think at times they can be a fascinating thing and my more defined alters are seeming to always want to jump out and be included in the fun but alas... people would find it a little strange that I'm acting a little hyper and overly sensitive all of a sudden. >.> And of course, it's against the rules. :\

Just a random question that's sprung up though kinda related to alters and what not, has anyone ever read their own posts here and felt really confused? Like; "I wrote that. But this doesn't sound anything like me! Why did I say that? What on earth was I thinking when I posted this?"
Cause I feel like that for like, 75% of my posts. Haha

Aphoticatramentous wrote: "...has anyone ever read their own posts here and felt really confused? Like; I wrote that?...Why did I say that? What on earth was I thinking when I posted this?"

I feel less confused about what I wanted to say, but I'm continuously re-editing as if I could somehow say it better. That said, I often agonize over saying anything, as I'm still unlearning self-doubt in favour of a self-worth outlook. Self-doubt wins too often, but it's a big problem, I feel.

Of course part of this is the desperate reach for perfectionism many of us feel; we were told we never got it right and didn't deserve to be heard. Then we were often misunderstood if and when we did dare to say what we felt, were belittled or worse, and took our hurt inside. Then we wonder if anyone else gets us, or ever will.

I think it just goes with the territory of wanting to figure any of this out, while at the same time trying to get through another day (or minute). That said, it's all new territory, this land we're trying to find beyond the hurt. It's so bad that just staying hurt can feel better than this effort to be understood. 

Quote from: AphoticAtramentous on October 19, 2017, 09:30:21 AM

QuoteBut honestly...can't let them speak directly, as the moderators there keep a sharp eye out on things. And only the account owner is officially allowed to speak. Which indirectly, really hurts...makes them, and me feel invisible and invalidated. I know it's not done out of spite or anything, just the rules. 

I get how you feel there. I would love to be more open with my alters, I think at times they can be a fascinating thing and my more defined alters are seeming to always want to jump out and be included in the fun but alas... people would find it a little strange that I'm acting a little hyper and overly sensitive all of a sudden. >.> And of course, it's against the rules. :\

Just a random question that's sprung up though kinda related to alters and what not, has anyone ever read their own posts here and felt really confused? Like; "I wrote that. But this doesn't sound anything like me! Why did I say that? What on earth was I thinking when I posted this?"
Cause I feel like that for like, 75% of my posts. Haha

I have wondered of late, all my lost/missing time..who was here?

And yes...I have gone back to old posts for unknown reasons and not be able to make sense of it. Not that it was jibberish, just...no idea what I was thinking or why I wrote that. It really throws me for a loop when I come across one.  AA, You're just simply awesome!!!  ;D :cheer: :thumbup: :yes: :applause: :bigwink:

Quote from: woodsgnome on October 19, 2017, 03:40:17 PM
I feel less confused about what I wanted to say, but I'm continuously re-editing as if I could somehow say it better. That said, I often agonize over saying anything, as I'm still unlearning self-doubt in favour of a self-worth outlook. Self-doubt wins too often, but it's a big problem, I feel.

Of course part of this is the desperate reach for perfectionism many of us feel; we were told we never got it right and didn't deserve to be heard. Then we were often misunderstood if and when we did dare to say what we felt, were belittled or worse, and took our hurt inside. Then we wonder if anyone else gets us, or ever will.

I think it just goes with the territory of wanting to figure any of this out, while at the same time trying to get through another day (or minute). That said, it's all new territory, this land we're trying to find beyond the hurt. It's so bad that just staying hurt can feel better than this effort to be understood.

I can get a bit like that too. Though sometimes my perfection has completely dropped off the face of the earth and I think; "Eh, who cares!" Which is I think it's more of an alter thing than anything else.
But I do also look back at my posts and think of how better they could be written or what not, also am hesitant about posting anything at all due to the perfectionistic tendencies. :S It sucks. It feels like everything I type will somehow be judged and assessed which isn't the case at all! I don't read others' posts and think "They could have done this better", I just don't. People make misspellings, typos, whatever, we're human. I just wish I could see myself the same way. I guess it just takes time.

Quote from: Andyman73 on October 20, 2017, 07:23:03 PM
I have wondered of late, all my lost/missing time..who was here?

And yes...I have gone back to old posts for unknown reasons and not be able to make sense of it. Not that it was jibberish, just...no idea what I was thinking or why I wrote that. It really throws me for a loop when I come across one.  AA, You're just simply awesome!!!  ;D :cheer: :thumbup: :yes: :applause: :bigwink:

Thanks, mate. :) I feel very much the same. Especially that "all my lost/missing time..who was here?". I barely remember anything from my day to day life. It makes filling out my Mood Diary way more harder than it should be. I wish I knew how good the average human memory is, so I have something to compare to and know if I'm just overreacting or not. But my good friend remembers more about my own life than I do, haha. So maybe I'm not overreacting? Hmm...

AA, I barely remember my day to day life. So often I barely remember things my wife tells me. Granted she goes on and on about stuff that doesn't pertain to me at all.  Then she gets ugly about it. So often she gaslights me though. Only telling me barely any details and then get flippin mad when I have no idea what she's talking about.  And woe unto me if I dare ask a question!

But she knows I have bonified memory issues, I've been tested and diagnosed with severe memory issues.

I have a bunch of inner beings. Not all of them are human. The inner-child-type ones tend to be in colours (I think in colours). They seem to arise for me at various times as I work through issues in therapy. I suspect that they 'house' different parts of me (the active, happy part; the scared, hiding part; etc.) that were too big, too unmanageable, and/or too taboo for me to have expressed them at the time. Now, I find it useful to interact with them as they help me understand what they need and want, so that I can try to help get them that. For me, the inner beings all know each other and sometimes interact with one another, either through my prompting or on their own. I find it useful to have these interactions - me with them, them with each other - in helping me to know them and so also to know myself.

Quote from: Andyman73 on October 23, 2017, 10:15:51 PM
AA, I barely remember my day to day life. So often I barely remember things my wife tells me. Granted she goes on and on about stuff that doesn't pertain to me at all.  Then she gets ugly about it. So often she gaslights me though. Only telling me barely any details and then get flippin mad when I have no idea what she's talking about.  And woe unto me if I dare ask a question!

But she knows I have bonified memory issues, I've been tested and diagnosed with severe memory issues.

Aww. That sounds terribly hard to deal with Andy. I sympathise with you.

If I may ask, where did you get your memory tested? GP? Psych? I feel I should really get myself tested but not sure how or where.

Quote from: I like vanilla on October 24, 2017, 05:23:39 AM
I have a bunch of inner beings. Not all of them are human. The inner-child-type ones tend to be in colours (I think in colours). They seem to arise for me at various times as I work through issues in therapy. I suspect that they 'house' different parts of me (the active, happy part; the scared, hiding part; etc.) that were too big, too unmanageable, and/or too taboo for me to have expressed them at the time. Now, I find it useful to interact with them as they help me understand what they need and want, so that I can try to help get them that. For me, the inner beings all know each other and sometimes interact with one another, either through my prompting or on their own. I find it useful to have these interactions - me with them, them with each other - in helping me to know them and so also to know myself.

That's really interesting, Vanilla. :) Nice to know you can have those interactions with your inners, must be very helpful.

QuoteAww. That sounds terribly hard to deal with Andy. I sympathise with you.

If I may ask, where did you get your memory tested? GP? Psych? I feel I should really get myself tested but not sure how or where.

Thank you. I really apprecieate that.

Where? At my local Veteran's Hospital. My therapist there wrote me up for it. Had told him that I was losing time. He just wanted to rule out physical causes like dementia and alzheimer's.  That's been the only assessment of my mind, in all of my life. Been trying to do the MIDS assessment...it's a bit much when you only have access via your smart phone!  ;D

I like Vanilla.....you are the very first I've ever met, that thinks in colors. Nice to meet you! I've heard of it, and even the main character in a book series thinks in colors.

Sounds like you got a whole team working with you. That's wonderful. I do wish just a little bit, I could work with mine like that. So much lost/missing time...wish I they could share with me what was hidden away.