I have quite a lot of friends and acquaintances. I'm beginning to speak my mind instead of staying silent.
There is the friend I sent an email to recently (that's under Recovery Letters), who has decided that she'd prefer not to be friends with me if that involves "always" having to be on the lookout for triggers in her speech. She doesn't actually 'always' need to be on the lookout, she just needs to actively listen to what I say on one point, but I guess she can't.
There is another friend who I spoke to tonight, who said that the problem with hiding under the covers is you feel worse afterwards. I don't agree and said so. I don't always feel worse. Sometimes it's good for me to lie there till I feel an impulse to get up and do xy rather than forcing myself to get up and not doing anything particular, certainly not xy. We won't break our friendship over this.
My T has said before that it's important for me to do this. So I'm doing.
I think it's really brave of you to do this!
My T echoes what yours had said. It is about finding a voice, no longer being passive, and setting boundaries. I have learned that not everyone will like it when you do. The ones who really care about you will think it is awesome.
Thank you Sceal :hug: It's certainly not easy and I do feel fear in the pit of my stomach. So you're right, facing up to that is brave! Now to feel that it is brave instead of just cognitively knowing, that's the next step.
Dee, if our Ts agree on this, then they're definitely onto something here!
No, not everyone likes it. Another friend of mine gets huffy even if she's not directly involved. I miss choir practice, she's huffy. She's not choir director and not the same 'voice' as me, but she takes it personally, as if she's somehow to blame, as if people will point to her and stare. I have another friend in choir, from before I started choir too, and she doesn't react this way. She once suggested I might feel better if I got myself to choir practice despite depression, but when I said "No, not always the case", she was happy to drop it. She doesn't hold it against me, and I think Huffy does a bit. Along with a smidgen of "it's your own fault you're depressed if you don't go where you could" (tho I have said "depression is just a symptom, not the whole problem"). I remember while writing this that my T once said about Huffy "You have friends who treat you like this"?!?
But I like the way you, Dee, describe having different degrees of friendship with people. some you allow closer in, some not. Some you just e.g. go to a movie with, others you visit. I don't know if those were your examples, but I hope you know what I mean. So I'm not going to ditch Huffy, saying "you're always like this"!
"The ones who really care about you will think it is awesome". FOO certainly doesn't think it's awesome. So they don't care about me. What else is new? :'( I think enF still feels he cares about me in some way, but...
I can think of friends thinking it is awesome when I set boundaries towards others, but towards them - they would accept but I'm not sure they'd be cheering exactly. It's the same for me. If a friend sets a boundary towards me, I think I accept (scratches head looking for examples where this wasn't the case in recent past) but I might still feel hurt or rejected. I don't think I can feel detached enough to be cheering for friend. I can feel detached enough to not feel hurt or rejected, it does depend on the issue. My T says it's 'normal' to feel a little hurt when you offer something of yourself and it's rejected. Though obviously you don't have to.
i'm with the others on this, blueberry. very brave, and beginning that empowerment of self with friends.
i think it's awesome. and you, too.
big hug.
:yeahthat:
Well done Blueberry! That is no small feat. Be proud :)
Thank you, integrity! :hug:
post from old server entitled 'non-comprehension'
on: January 29, 2018, 04:53:01 PM »
:blowup: :aaauuugh: I've had to tell somebody for the second time in a few weeks and the third time in about 6 months that I have next to no contact with FOO so I don't know the answer to his question, he needs to ask FOO directly. He's not really a friend, I'm friends with his wife, good friends in fact.
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Elphanigh
Re: non-comprehension
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 06:39:59 PM »
That is so frustrating Blueberry! I am sorry to hear that is still happening, but glad you are obviously standing your ground with him
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sanmagic7
Re: non-comprehension
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 09:19:51 AM »
i hate it when people want to use me as a middle-person, instead of doing their own questioning, talking, whatever. i used to love it, funnily enough, when i thought i needed to be in the middle of everyone's business. i'm glad those days are gone. sorry these people have attempted to put you in that position again and again. hoping it stops soon. glad you're taking care of you and standing your ground. big hug, sweetie.
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Blueberry
Re: non-comprehension
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2018 »
Actually his wife, my friend, has stopped. Once I explained roughly why and also said that if she passes information on to them about me, she is undermining my boundary-setting towards my parents. She realises I mean business. I think I detect a slight change in the friendship. I can't really put a word to the change yet. But it's still a good friendship.
I've never been that close to her husband anyway. He's a lot older than me too. I'm not sure how seriously he even takes me. My not feeling close means that I don't want to explain why I've reduced contact to FOO and don't want to be asked about them. I also feel that I can hardly ask his wife to remind him to shut the * up and leave me in peace if I'm telling them they have to contact my parents directly. Then surely I should deal with her h directly too?
I don't know if this applies to you. When I read your post, I was already thinking about what I'm about to say in regard to invalidation in my own life.
I had a situation recently, which really got to me, in which I had something I needed to say which someone was unable to hear, and that was triggering. Also the subject of what I needed to say was triggering for me. I repeated myself many times in different ways over time, believing the problem may have been that I had not communicated effectively. I'd go away thinking I'd finally sorted things out only to find that this person would raise the matter again as if I had never said a word.
For me, this kind of refusal to listen to and respect something that is clearly important to another conveys contempt. It wasn't that he hadn't heard or he didn't understand, it was a value judgement on his part about the content of what I had said. I became more frustrated and angrier over time and eventually found that he had an agenda about what I was saying. I wasn't the only one who had strong feelings about the subject matter. His refusal to listen meant I was put in a crazy-making situation. Once I became clearly angry he was more able to discredit what I was saying. By having provoked me he could 'demonstrate' to himself that I was the sort of overly-emotional person who would say that.
I'd label that contempt too, radical! I'm sorry you're going through that. :hug:
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I feel I'm not speaking my mind atm in at least 2 different situations. Except in one of the situations I did actually. But it wasn't really understood. Maybe it will be in time. Sometimes it takes a while for me to understand what a particular comment really means too! Unfortunately it makes me questions my 'worth' as a friend. I need to thought-stop there though because I can see B1 poking around in my head. These were abusive things he said to me and my parents joined in with or at least implied.
In the other case it's client-related not friend-related and was one of the reasons I didn't get out of bed today, though really it's quite a minor thing I need to speak up about. Sorry I haven't sent March bill yet, the number of cancellations and rescheduling of appointments combined with a mistake of my own make it really difficult to tell when you actually came or didn't in Feb. so I don't even know which scheduled appointments in March are make up ones for Feb. or not.
I've now done the client-related thing, yesterday in fact :cheer:
The other one I'm still ruminating on or writing about like one of my threads under Recovery Letters, where I'm discussing with self rather than writing.
When I think about what all I wrote, I feel like I'm a bad friend. At least part of me tells me I am. The other part of me says it's really important that I'm beginning to even think about standing up for myself. There, when I write that B1 pops back into my head. I wasn't allowed to say 'No' to him for most of my childhood / teen years. There were a couple of years when M was less unhappy with her life and then I was allowed to say 'No' strangely enough. But otherwise I guess they all needed me as verbal/emotional and sometimes physical punching bag. Or in the case of F, not willing to stand up for me against those who needed me.
So thanks very much FOO, apparently never thought (or cared) what long-term effects the role you have in your family growing up will have on you later.
Spoke my mind to another friend today. She was beating about the bush telling me a whole bunch of information for later on today which I don't need. I'm doing some volunteer work for something she partially organises. She was telling me all sorts of extraneous information and I could feel I was about to explode internally. So I said something. :thumbup: She tends to be like that.
I post long texts here :whistling: where other members are very succinct whereas this friend tends to spin huge long yarns on the phone. Up till now I've mostly put up with it, willingly in a way. Sort of accepting that that's the way she is. She is like that with everybody. She gives a lot as well, of her time and help and good thoughts. She doesn't suck other people dry but she does have a bit of the gift of the gab.... So I said something today. :cheer: So that I don't blow a fuse later. It's a definite form of self-care.
Way to go :bigwink: that was great awareness on your part to notice the signs and step up and say something. Sometimes those people don't really care who they are talking to... they just like talking. I think it's good to say something before they go trampling all over your boundaries.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Thanks for validating!
Setting boundaries is so incredible difficult! You did wonderful! :cheer:
Thanks Sceal, I find it really difficult too.
Now after my retreat, I know there's some more speaking-my-mind which needs being done. NOt that anybody told me, I can just feel it.
Quote from: Blueberry on April 30, 2018, 02:37:50 PM
Spoke my mind to another friend today. ..
I post long texts here :whistling: where other members are very succinct whereas this friend tends to spin huge long yarns on the phone. Up till now I've mostly put up with it, willingly in a way. Sort of accepting that that's the way she is. She is like that with everybody. She gives a lot as well, of her time and help and good thoughts. She doesn't suck other people dry but she does have a bit of the gift of the gab....
Yesterday too, I felt I spoke quite politely and in a friendly way but also quite definitely that I simply didn't have time to stop and chat. I had to do x, y and z and then get to somebody's by x time for a ride somewhere else. OK, I'm justifying there somewhat but... Actually my T thinks it can be sensible to give a brief reason to friends whereas on Out of the Fog they'd say not to. I suppose it maybe depends on how you do with boundaries in general. I didn't allow her to take up my time with extraneous tales. I put up with that for years and now bit by bit I'm saying "No." when it genuinely is too much or when it comes at a bad time.
There are far fewer of those old FOO voices in my head about my "obviously" being a loser with having such "bad" friends unlike e.g. my 'wonderful' elder brother :stars: And what came - I didn't allow them to stay. I shut them down. This is progress :cheer:
It's been good to re-read this thread just now, both to see my own progress over the months and to see comments from others especially at the beginning like from Dee (and her T).
Further up the thread I mentioned Huffy. She's in another group I go to, where we actually speak English not the local lingo. Huffy phoned me a couple of days ago to tell me the next date the other group is meeting, which was nice of her. But all the way up the road to choir practice I was standing up for myself in my head in this other group. Maybe I'll write another Recovery Letter.
Thinking about it at home again this evening I felt ashamed. There are so many mbrs here with 'real problems' why do I get bothered about something so minor?? Now as I write that, I realise that statement comes from M and her mother, I think even from F in my teens when things were particularly bad.
I have difficulty standing up for myself, especially in a group when several mbrs are having a go at me all at the same time, obviously because it reminds me so much of life with FOO. The effects of emotional traumatisation make it so hard for me to stand up for myself. Compound that with remarks from 'helpers' in the past like "Can't you do it in a normal way?" meaning speak in the moment. No, I can't. Partly because I can't get a word in edgeways and partly with 4 or 5 against 1, it's pretty difficult. Written's way easier for me, even if not "normal". If my T knew of the situation, he'd probably look at me with incredulity and ask again: "You have friends who treat you like this??" I think he'd also say that it's good I'm continuing to stand up for myself.
Today in T appointment, we got onto the topic of shame. He said that comes from a feeling of "something about me isn't right." So that in part explains my feeling of shame about a) speaking up in this group of people to stand up for myself and b) writing about it on here.
On here I can only tell myself that different mbrs have different trauma to deal with in different ways and this is where I am atm.
I can't seem to find the words to reply to you. I've been re-reading your latest post here ever since you wrote it.
And I think it speaks about a transitional place that you're in now. Realizing all these different things, and taking step back and understanding where the thoughts come from and whom they belong.
I can relate to finding it easier to write rather than speak. There's something about the written language that lets you take more time to compose your message. The spoken one is filled with having to say something right away, and your body-language at the same time. It's challenging to get a handle on it.
Rooting for you!
Thanks Sceal :) :hug: