Out of the Storm

Development of CPTSD in Adulthood => Causes => Emotional Abuse => Topic started by: Andyman73 on December 26, 2017, 11:00:07 AM

Title: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on December 26, 2017, 11:00:07 AM
Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r? There is no #metoo, or anything for me. There is for my child abuse, and my csa/r. But not for my adult abuse.

I'm quite sure this thread won't get off the ground as nobody really wants to hear about a man anyway.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Rainagain on December 26, 2017, 12:18:39 PM
Hey Andyman,

Everyone is valuable here, your experiences are just as important as anyone's.

I've had a lot of support here, I don't think my gender was relevant.

I hope you come to feel supported here, what you suffered is not OK, not OK at all.

Best wishes.

Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Hope66 on December 26, 2017, 01:16:20 PM
Hi Andy,
Just wanted to say that your views and your experiences are important, and I think there should be a place for you - alongside all of us - i.e. regardless of gender - to have your feelings, your thoughts, and your experiences validated.   Both for abuse suffered as a child, and also as an adult - I don't think the age matters in that respect - as I think all forms of abuse, at whatever age, are not appropriate.   :hug: to you, and hope you know that you matter.
Hope  :)
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Rainagain on December 26, 2017, 03:34:06 PM
I've just remembered that cptsd can occur at any age and any gender, I developed mine over the last few years in my early 50's so it can happen to anyone If enough trauma is applied, especially by others.

It took around 2 years of trauma before I became very Ill, many people who had our experiences would be here with us, nobody is indestructible, we are all human.

I feel proud of the # me too campaign, long overdue. It doesn't make me feel left out because there is nothing I have found specifically about the trauma of work related abuse and violence, if someone else is being validated and supported it doesn't make me feel left out.

We are all in the same boat here. We know how tough it is and we understand the pain.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: BlancaLap on December 26, 2017, 03:35:04 PM
You being a man has nothing to do with being important or not. Everyone should have a voice, support, and validation of their experience.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Three Roses on December 26, 2017, 04:28:51 PM
It's something we don't talk about as a society, that men can be victims of SA & R, too. You're important to us here, Andyman, and you help to remind us of the truth. Love and peace to you.  :hug:
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Sceal on December 26, 2017, 06:02:59 PM
Oh Andy!
I don't know where to begin.  ( And I do apologize if this turns out to be a long answer)
It doesn't matter what gender you are. SA at any age is a truly horrifying thing to experience, and there is totally room for you too to speak of your troubles, worries and horrors.

The #Metoo campaign is incredible important for society to have. I do know there have been atleast a few men who has joined in the fight as victims as well as supporters. But they are sadly not many. And on a side note, I do feel that the #metoo campaign changed focus a little.

I had a conversation with my lady at the SA center in my city in regards to men. There had been a recent articles with a bunch of comments that had upset me. It was about men being abused, and that men felt more shame and horror than women. It was painful to read that, because I don't believe it's true. It's not a competition about who is hurting the worst amongst the genders or between each other. I believe the pain and shame can be equally big for all of us. My SA center lady agreed from her experiences with talking with victims of all genders. The biggest differenence is, she said, that women tend to seek help more than men (I don't know about transexuals). That's my experience when I worked in the health sector as well, women tended to talk more. Not always, everyone is different. But generally speaking.

I think it's sad that it is like that. Men should have room to speak up about their health and worries and women should have room to speak up in public and in business - and both be respected equally.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Sceal on December 26, 2017, 06:21:24 PM
P.S If you haven't come across this organisation yet 1in6, I'd like to share the link with you:
https://1in6.org/
Maybe there are something there that can give you more connection to what you're going through.
Also I found this article : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21653264
I only read the abstract, but maybe it is worth a ready.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: woodsgnome on December 26, 2017, 07:34:44 PM
***TRIGGERS (sorry)***

Don't know quite how to say this, other than...btw, I'm a guy. Maybe I'm blind, but I've always felt like OOTS and the issues discussed here are gender neutral for the most part. But it might just be  me, as I'm probably more asexual than anything. Still human, far as I can tell.

I was sexually molested by women and men as a kid, starting with the m but including a whole parade of teachers in 2 religious private schools all the way to age 18. I survived. I thought I was even turning the corner, that I was too old, at age 21; I'd found a good job, was enjoying college, found people who really liked me, and then...

...was sexually assaulted in the back area of a park, by a guy...it didn't turn out well, I've never trusted anyone since...and...

...it's really impossible to say anymore, and I hope that's okay. I don't have it in me to say more right now, but I just wanted you to know you're not alone, not at all; and that you're safe here. As I am; so now my tears are stopping me.

Please take good care  :hug:
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Kat on December 26, 2017, 07:57:40 PM
Andyman and Woodsgnome, I'm so, so sorry for what you each have suffered.  I don't have much to add--I think the previous posts have pretty much covered my thoughts on the topic.  I'm sorry society is so afraid to look at sexual assault of adult males.  Perhaps the implications are too much to handle?
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on December 27, 2017, 04:23:34 AM
I'm so so sorry. I'm sorry I'm sorry.   

OOTS is fantastic and no way shape or form impinging upon voice.

I was asking the Universe.  I have looked everywhere. EVERYWHERE!!! 😔 I don't fit.  I can be an adult victim of child abuse. I can be an adult survivor of csa/r. I can sorta be a victim of domestic violence abuse.  But I can't really be an adult male victim of adult sa/r. However I can't be a 44 year old man who is all of these things.  I can't. 

I can't talk freely anywhere. Both here and the other community I belong to, the guidelines for posting silence me too often. I don't want to step out, but seem to do so, when I try to talk about me.  It's nobody's fault. I can't remember what I can or can't say till moderators let me know I stepped over the line. They're doing what they are here for. Which I'm glad for.
But how do I make any progress when I am my own worst enemy??? I mean, my own cognitive limitations and faulty memory unintentionally conspire against me.
I love all of you and will try to respond to your posts when I can. Please accept my sincerist apologies.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Rainagain on December 27, 2017, 06:04:29 AM
Hey Andy,

Be kind and gentle with yourself, I'm sorry that you are distressed.

I don't know what else to say right now but I don't feel I fit in anywhere really.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Sceal on December 27, 2017, 07:24:50 AM
 :bighug:
Have you started your own journal? maybe there you'll be able to be a bit more freer to what you want and need to say as long as you include triggerwarnings and avoid hate speech?

There is room for you in this world too, Andy. There is.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on December 27, 2017, 05:34:25 PM
Rainagain,
I haven't been made to feel less in anyway, here in OOTS. But I need to talk about this because it weighs very heavily on me. I think #metoo is way overdue, and I'm so very glad that it is making big waves in social media and entertainment industry.  Being a man made me feel left out before #metoo got big.  My experience in the Military really drove that gender point home.  Rain, I so very very much appreciate that you came and posted here. I got an idea, maybe we can form our own club, for those of us who feel we don't fit in anywhere. It can be the "Everyone Fits Here" club.  safe  :hug:

Hope66,
Hi Hope, thank you so much for reassuring me in this. I don't believe I've been made uncomfortable by any of you lovely ladies, or manly men either. I have been by some of the tops though, here and my other community. Some are gender specific...not male, either. And while no harm intended, still does. I even tried to ask a question once, regarding differences in experiences between men and women as victims and abusers. Got no answers, just a heavy hand of rebuke. Not on OOTS, but elsewhere. And the question was worded in a very neutral manner.  Thank you for  :hug: and saying I matter.  :bighug:

BlancaLap,
Thank you. Yes, we all should have that opportunity to be heard.

3Roses,
Yes, and therein lies the rub. Society, which is where most of us live, chooses not to see men as adult victims of adult abuse..not till we're oldsters and elder abuse comes into play. Society sees me as a grown survivor of cpa and csa/r...and that's it.  Love and peace to you, as well.  :bighug:

Sceal,
Long answers are always welcome! As are short and tiny, and emoji only answers too!  Did that article give reasons why it was saying men hurt more? I've read some things like that too...and while had some issue swallowing it, there were some valid points. But without the points, it's meaningless heresy. I can't remember specifically what I had read...something to do with society expecting men to be manly, and suck it up, and men can't be r unless gay, then it was acceptable. And something about the general overall lack of available resources for men was another issue. Anyway, those where some of the things I recall. Not sure how accurate that is.
Personally I try to stay as far as possible from those kinds of discussions. I been burned several times just for being male, without even having brought up the gender issues. I'll never forget the looks on the faces of the female clients at the DV shelter. Such utter contempt and hatred I've only seen on my abusive wife's face before. I still get chills thinking about that. Won't say how bad it made me feel...
And I try even harder to not compare. I tend to be in default mode of minimize my experience, because I don't feel safe otherwise. It helps me to not minimize others experiences if I default to theirs being so much more than mine. That way I can give them their due, and show them love and compassion.

I've looked into "1in6" and couldn't get comfortable with it. Felt too much like some of my experiences, especially the longrunning DV marriage abuse, singled me out and excluded me.
And I did start my journal, but have a hard time posting in it sometimes. I don't have any hate speech, so that's not an issue with me.  :bighug:

Woodsgnome,
I'm so so sorry my friend, not mean to make tears for you. Safe  :bighug: if okay.
I've been assaulted by both males and females, from teens to grown mature adults. Very first remembered was a man my dad's age. or older. I was 2. Was 21-22 when last assaulted by male...about my age. But was older for last assault by female, few years older than me, before met wife...who been abusing me for 21 years now.  Thank you for sharing a tiny peek of yourself here, my friend.  :bighug: Gentlest care to you as well.

Kat,
It's very possible that society is afraid to actually see and address this issue. Thank you for coming by.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Rainagain on December 27, 2017, 07:10:53 PM
Oh, Andy

I'm so sorry you have been through so very much.

I don't know what to say really, but I wish you some peace, maybe a new section on here would help, I haven't done a journal but maybe it gets easier with time?

Best wishes, you matter. Your experiences matter too.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Sceal on December 27, 2017, 07:59:13 PM
Dear Andy,

I can't recall the spesifics of the article I read to begin with. But I think what they referred to is that men tend to get a physical responce that they cannot control. One that is far more visible to the naked eye, than a womans natural physical responce. And that it is thought that brings on more shame. But women too can get similar physical responce that is unwanted, and completely out of their own control.
It is a hard subject all together. It is so complex! And so very painful. Sometimes I have no idea how I am going to continue enduring it all, the memories, the reminders.
I can relate to finding it difficult to write in the journal. I hardly ever write about that topic in regards to myself. But I do find it helpful to write about other things, that in some way or another relates to that topic. And maybe one day, it'll be easier. I hope so for you too.
I am sorry to hear 1in6 didn't particularly help you. But perhaps there are other services, maybe even local ones that could?
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on December 28, 2017, 02:41:22 AM
Rainagain,
Ehhh, it's okay. You may or may not be surprised how often I hear that. Really. Seems most folks say it to me.  😔 I don't know what to say...the most common phrase I have been told.  It's okay...how do you honestly respond to someone telling you something like my story?
Rainagain, truly I'm just glad you care enough to be here even without knowing what to say. Being here says it all. Thank you.  :bighug:

Sceal,
Yeah, that noticeable and obvious physical response thing....sure messes with your mind...especially when you do know what is happening and your mind is so desperately not wanting to be here. And you're feeling betrayed by your body's automatic physical response. When I was being sa/r by a predator as a young man, I was deep in derealization(I think), my POV was from deep inside my own self, but my physical body was responding to physical stimuli against my will. Stupid body enjoying it!🤬
Worse yet, the most powerful orgasms I ever had were during his abuse of me.  Stupid biology!!! 🤬🤯
I can't even begin to imagine how much this has really really messed with my mind.  I don't even bother thinking about how I'm going to make it. I won't, if I think about it. So I just don't. I try to worry only about today.
It's not so much that I can't write in my journal, about this stuff, but I'm too afraid of getting censored. Too afraid that the real truth will just get me shut down. Maybe with oodles of TWs it might be okay then.
I've looked into everything I could find, online. There are a few options but they all cater to a specific survivor group. None of them cover enough to help me. But that's okay, what choice do I really have anyway?
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: ah on December 31, 2017, 06:34:02 PM
Andy,

It's not okay to be a victim of any type of abuse, methinks :hug: it's just not okay that any of us have to even know the words "abuse" or "sa" or "r". But if anyone deserves to be seen and heard it's you, with your kindness and empathy. I think this post is brave.

I think you're absolutely right about feeling left out. You are being left out, I'm just wildly guessing there are all sorts of unrealistic stereotypes that leave this topic so invisible and unknown, and its victims feeling like they're not allowed to be in pain.
But you are. Violence doesn't discriminate, it doesn't care if you're male or female. Nor does cptsd, or kindness or caring for that matter. Or recovery, even.

A while back I remember you saying that you were looking for information? I think? I searched, thinking I'd try to find things for you if I could, and I realized just how much you're left out when I couldn't find anything. 

The physical response must be beyond humiliating and leave you feeling more betrayed. Then there's the social cluelessness humiliating victims into silence and self blame... first our abusers tell us we're not real people with real feelings and then society unintentionally does too.

I can strongly relate but like woodsgnome, it's really impossible for me to say anymore and I hope that's okay. Some of the things I go through I can't share because they're ongoing, but also because they're hard to believe and just not socially considered, let alone socially accepted.
It's extremely isolating, I feel like an alien here too at times. There's no in group for me, I'm a group of just one crazy ah... well, that's how it feels to me.

My guess is there are many "aliens" out there, and I hope brave souls will write about it online, write journals and sites and share what it's like to be an adult male victim of adult sa/r and what it's like to be so doubly isolated. It's desperately needed.
I hope you'll be one of them... maybe? You have a heart the size of the atlantic ocean and if I were a victim of adult male sa/r I'd treasure your words. They'd show me I'm not alone.

Neither are you though I bet you feel very alone sometimes. Who wouldn't after all you've gone through and still go through?

:hug:










Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: sanmagic7 on January 02, 2018, 03:38:14 PM
my first thought, also, when i read the title, was 'it's not ok to be a victim of anything', not trying to exclude you, but no one should be a victim, should have that experience, should have to go thru that pain and suffering.   it's absolutely not ok to have been victimized in any way, shape, or form.  it's shameful that it's happened, but it's not the victim's shame - it's the perpetrator's shame.  it's never the victim's shame or guilt or fault.  never.

unfortunately, our society has made these guidelines about what men and women are about, what's 'ok' for them and what isn't.  men are often shamed for human responses and emotions from the time they're little boys, especially around crying and showing that they're in pain.  they're more often taught to be tough, rough, and objectify women.  therefore, any type of sexual abuse/assault belongs in the male domain.

it's very slowly been coming to light that yes, it is possible for a man to be sexually assaulted by a woman, although there are still far too many people who refuse to believe it.  i know several men personally who have experienced this, both as adolescents and as grown men.  they've all looked to others to validate their experience.  this was about 40 yrs. ago that i began hearing about it.

i also belong to a feminist book club where this type of 'equality' has been discussed.  there, too, it has been validated.   i would hope that men could get together and begin constructing dv shelters and real life support groups for this situation.  i think it's been needed for a very long time, but i do believe (just my opinion) that men may have gotten a bit of a more shameful label due to societal beliefs.  most particularly in this area.

and i say this because as boys, men have been shamed for showing emotions (except for anger), for their love of the creative arts (as compared to sports), for being vulnerable (a sign of 'weakness') and for crying out in pain.  for girls, these situations have been more acceptable, somehow.  in fact, the worst insult a male can have hurled at him is a slang term for a part of the female anatomy.

so, no wonder you feel alone and hanging out there on your own with this, andy.  the cards have been stacked against you and other men with your experiences from time immemorial.  (i'm not taking anything away from what women have had to deal with in their lives, just putting some focus on the other side of the tortilla for a minute).   my heart aches for anyone who has gone thru any of this, and shame on the perps for causing such suffering.

i hope you can find a way to be able to talk about what happened the way you need to.  have you asked any of the mods here more specifically about what you could say or what, exactly, you aren't allowed to say?  maybe one of them can help you with that.  where is the boundary for 'explicit'?

or, maybe you could write it on paper, put it in an envelope, and symbolically send it (name or initials only, no address) by sticking it in a mailbox.  be as explicit as you want, get it out of you and have it in black and white on paper.  i've done that. 
sometimes just getting it out of us helps a lot, even if no one will see it.

i've known people who have put such letters in a collection plate at a church where abuse took place.  no names necessary.  or left at a school.  i don't know if any of this might help - just passing on some ideas that have helped others when they've had nowhere else to go with their pain.

please know, andy, that as far as i'm concerned, none of this should have happened to you, and i'm truly sorry it did.  you are a courageous man for having survived it, and thank you for speaking out about it.  i know other men with this issue, have heard of many more, so i know you're not alone, and i know it's true and real.  safe, gentle, warm loving hug to you. 

you didn't deserve any of it.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: BlancaLap on January 02, 2018, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: sanmagic7 on January 02, 2018, 03:38:14 PM
my first thought, also, when i read the title, was 'it's not ok to be a victim of anything', not trying to exclude you, but no one should be a victim, should have that experience, should have to go thru that pain and suffering.   it's absolutely not ok to have been victimized in any way, shape, or form.  it's shameful that it's happened, but it's not the victim's shame - it's the perpetrator's shame.  it's never the victim's shame or guilt or fault.  never.

:yeahthat:
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on January 04, 2018, 06:20:52 PM
ah, San, BlancaLap,

It's so very very hard to even begin to express how I feel. As far as my ASA and DV goes. I don't even know what to feel about it. How does one go about feeling and experiencing something that society in general doesn't even believe in? I may as well try to explain how I felt when I saw Santa Claus come down my chimney 2 weeks ago, as a 44 yr old adult.

Watched a recent episode of Law and Order; SVU, and the victims were adult males. And most of the detectives had a hard time believing it was even possible for adult males..outside of a prison setting, to be SA/R. Boy, that hit home like  :fallingbricks:.

Will try my best to be as open as I can. Love you all.  :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

Andy  :phoot:
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: BlancaLap on January 04, 2018, 06:23:33 PM
:bighug:
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: sanmagic7 on January 04, 2018, 10:03:56 PM
but, did they, in the end, believe it in the show?  if so, it shouts a strong message to those watching, and i'm really glad they tackled the subject.  i hope they did.

i think this subject is just coming out of its own shadows - finally - and that's a good thing.  it's slow going, i know, but it's going nonetheless.

hang tough, andy.  hug filled with belief, warmth, and love to you.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Sceal on January 05, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
In the #metoo campaign here about a week or so ago one of the more famous male actors (especially within theatre and voice acting) stood up and said that he had been the victim of sexual harrassment. He didn't go into details, but he said loud and clear that men needs a room to be heard, believed and cared for. And that more men should dare to voice their concerns, problems and heartbreaks (especially) in relation to this topic.

With him coming forward, I hope that it also means that people will start to open their eyes and hearts.
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on January 11, 2018, 06:16:25 PM
Quote from: sanmagic7 on January 04, 2018, 10:03:56 PM
but, did they, in the end, believe it in the show?  if so, it shouts a strong message to those watching, and i'm really glad they tackled the subject.  i hope they did.

i think this subject is just coming out of its own shadows - finally - and that's a good thing.  it's slow going, i know, but it's going nonetheless.

hang tough, andy.  hug filled with belief, warmth, and love to you.
Not really sure, since the perp in question was a female authority figure, who ended up with a slap on the wrist, basically.  I'd like to think that they did, but I just didn't really feel it.
Thank you for the love filled hug..so lovely.  :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Rowan on February 15, 2018, 08:01:46 PM
Trigger warnings

:heythere:

:grouphug:

Personally,, although I didn't realise it, the campaign triggered me as well, and my T helped me realise that in one case I was assaulted by a female (as a late minor, under the influence); and in another by a "friend" who is gay.

Outright, it needs to be said.

For every one of my female friends who participated in the campaign, I responded in private message with the tag, and a brief recount (similar to what's above), and  words of love, compassion and encouragement.

Most were stunned, and completely unaware - in both cases I've lived in silence for over 25 years.

It is terrible, but, you are not alone.


Rowan
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Three Roses on February 15, 2018, 09:07:11 PM
Brave post, Rowan (and welcome).
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Andyman73 on April 08, 2018, 11:17:06 PM
Quote from: Rowan on February 15, 2018, 08:01:46 PM
Trigger warnings

:heythere:

:grouphug:

Personally,, although I didn't realise it, the campaign triggered me as well, and my T helped me realise that in one case I was assaulted by a female (as a late minor, under the influence); and in another by a "friend" who is gay.

Outright, it needs to be said.

For every one of my female friends who participated in the campaign, I responded in private message with the tag, and a brief recount (similar to what's above), and  words of love, compassion and encouragement.

Most were stunned, and completely unaware - in both cases I've lived in silence for over 25 years.

It is terrible, but, you are not alone.


Rowan
Hi Rowan,
Looking back, I think what bothered me the most about the #metoo campain, was feeling left out. For me, I've only been living with this since January 2017. Before then, I had no memory or even an inkling that this actually had been my life. Nearly none of my nightmares has any clues to my past.  Even moreso, Since I am not on mainstream social media, I don't know a single person who has added #metoo to their social media pages.  Okay, let me clarify...I don't know if they did or not....cuz I"m not on.

Thank you for saying I'm not alone.
Andy
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: Rainstorm11 on July 28, 2019, 11:50:04 PM
No abuse or harm is right. Gender has nothing to do with it. I advocated for men to join in saying #metoo
You matter
Title: Re: Is it okay to be a male victim of adult sa/r?
Post by: mikenoodle on July 29, 2019, 12:54:15 AM
Hi Andy.

Of course it's ok. You did not choose to be abused. Abuse chose you. I know very well how societal stigma can seem invincible, but it's not.

Someone commented earlier that OOTD seems gender neutral and I believe that it is. I have felt welcomed here and validated.

This is a great place to share. I even started s journal here. My therapist has wanted me to journal for a long time. I've never felt safe doing it at home. Somehow this is anonymous enough to make me comfortable.