Out of the Storm

Hi everyone,
Thanks to the recommendation by WhoBuddy, I have bought this book, and it's arrived today.  I am excited about this, as I am looking forward to reading it, and I suggested to WhoBuddy that I'd open a thread to enable us to discuss the book, and I know that WhoBuddy has some contributions to make, and I also hope that anyone else reading it will pop by, as well as anyone who relates to the thread.  I'm not sure when I'll start reading it, but hopefully soon.
Hope  :)

I'm not planning to read much more today, but I read the first page, which is only the 'Acknowledgements' page, and I am already relating and even more excited to read this book, and I'll just quote what Janina Fisher wrote there:

"The inspiration behind the ideas presented in this book comes directly from my patients who, over the years, taught me everything I understand today about the impact of trauma from "inside the volcano."  They helped me to understand the experience of living with the enduring threat of annihilation, of hating themselves when they could not risk hating those who harmed them.  They helped me to see that the deepest pain of all is connected to the failure of those they loved to cherish them and, for that reason, provide them safety and care.  No arms reached out to break their fall, dry their tears, or comfort the ache of loneliness.  There was no balm for the shame.  When I finally understood that, to find peace, they needed a way to love the wounded children inside them, an insight came to me: it is the quality of our internal attachments that determines how safe we feel "inside", how easy or difficult it is to be "me".  When we ignore, despite, or disown our littlest selves, we can't help but feel their pain: once again, they are not welcome.  And when we learn how to offer them and ourselves an unconditionally "loving presence," wounds can heal and hope is renewed."

My reflections on that - I think it's going to be a book that is well written and well researched/informed - I already relate to what Janina says here.  I am hopeful that the book will be helpful.

Just wanted to share my first impressions and also that paragraph.

Hope  :)

Thanks! Will be checking on this one for sure.

Thanks for bringing this book to our attention Hope. I like the sound of it, and have already looked it up on Amazon. Everyone's giving it 5 stars and raving about it, even therapists.
I want to read it too. It's quite pricey though for a paperback.

Hi Fen Starshimmer,
I really hope you can read it too - I know it's expensive - but maybe ask your local library if they'll order it for you?  That might be a way to get it without having to spend money.  Some libraries will ask for a nominal fee - like a pound (or equivalent in dollars) - not sure where you're based, but they will often order a book.  I was extra excited and wanted to order mine, and I am very happy that I did.  It really looks like a good book.  The author has worked with many experts in Trauma - and I like the way she writes so far.  I've not read much of it yet, but WhoBuddy has read it all and was very enthusiastic, and I can understand why.
Hope  :)

Hi Three Roses - I meant to also say 'Hi' to you, and I'm glad you're interested in this.   :)
Hope  :)

Hi Hope,
I just checked to find out whether my library stocks this book, and unfortunately they don't. I will pay a visit and find out whether they can order a copy for me. That sounds like a good plan.

I'm interested to learn as much as I can about trauma. It helps to be as well informed as possible on the healing journey. Self-education can be very healing, as 'things' (the inner struggle) start to make sense. Self-blame and the inner critic fall away, as do anger, grief etc... there is still some, but it's not as powerful. You start to see everything in a new light.  That's how it's been for me anyway. I've been doing other complementary healing work too...  It's a big project this recovery process!   :)

Hope,
I just called my library and they have ordered the book for me. I was amazed at how easy it was... I will just have to pay £1.50 for placing the order.

I should receive it in a matter of weeks rather than months, they said. Can't wait to read it!  :yes: Then I will be able to discuss it with you on here.  :)

Hi FenStarshimmer,
I am really happy to hear you've been able to order the book from the library, and it's good value at £1.50 for the order.  Great that you will be popping in here to discuss it.

Just to say that already, even though I've only read a very short amount of the book (i.e. the Acknowledgements sections so far) - I am excited - and I hope to read more soon.  But I am pacing myself, as I've had a few things going on this week.  But I am relieved to have the book - and I'm glad you're going to be reading it soon as well.   :)

Hope  :)

Hi there Hope. I'm considering checking this book out, but I'm hesitating since I have a limited allowance for the books I read and want to choose well. Would you mind if you can tell me why you think it's a good choice?

Hi Decimal Rocket,

The book was first recommended to me by WhoBuddy.  Then I looked it up on Amazon and read the 'feedback' and it looked really well rated.  That was why I decided to buy it, and now I've got it, I have so far just read the Acknowledgements page and also part of the Introduction, and I particularly like the fact that Janina Fisher has been mentored and worked with Bessel Van der Kolk, and she has also worked at Bessel van der Kolk's Trauma Centre since 1996, and Pat Ogden's Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (since 2003). 

I will quote a couple of things she wrote: e.g. p7 of introductions she says "I will be integrating a theoretical understanding of trauma, dissociation, neurobiology, and attachment with a practical, "hand's on" approach to the treatment of these issues that is intended to be accessible to both client and therapist".

I like the way she writes, and I feel that she 'get's it' - I am impressed so far. 

But maybe do some research around, Decimal Rocket - because there are many books out there, and I know your budget is limited.  But maybe consider ordering it from the library - as some libraries will be happy to order it for you for a nominal fee - and it would be a cheaper option.

If you do  get it, then this thread is here - for your reflections, if you want to use it - I opened it to reflect and share my experiences of the book, and hope others will also do that, if they want to. 

Hope  :)

Quote from: DecimalRocket on February 19, 2018, 01:46:06 PM
Hi there Hope. I'm considering checking this book out, but I'm hesitating since I have a limited allowance for the books I read and want to choose well. Would you mind if you can tell me why you think it's a good choice?

I hope you don't mind if I answer your question, too. The book helped me because it helped me discover my 'inner adult' which I had thought was absent most of the time. The author describes the 'part' that 'goes on with normal life' like paying bills, going to work, going to appointments, etc. as being our adult self. It took some time for me to accept this and recognize that this is me as an adult because I have always had the gnawing feeling that this part of me was fake. But her book gave me the nudge to explore this idea and to view my wounded 'parts' as separate from my adult self. And my adult  self can offer comfort to my other parts in a way that no one else can because I know what they have been through.

This has helped me in many ways, one is that I have experienced fewer EFs than I used to. Also, when I have an EF, I can usually figure out which part is hurting and I use that knowledge to inform some helpful self-talk.

I know this may not be precisely what the author is promoting. I look forward to hearing what others get out of the book.

Quote from: Whobuddy on February 20, 2018, 10:28:11 PM
But her book gave me the nudge to explore this idea and to view my wounded 'parts' as separate from my adult self. And my adult  self can offer comfort to my other parts in a way that no one else can because I know what they have been through.

This has helped me in many ways, one is that I have experienced fewer EFs than I used to. Also, when I have an EF, I can usually figure out which part is hurting and I use that knowledge to inform some helpful self-talk.

I know this may not be precisely what the author is promoting. I look forward to hearing what others get out of the book.

Hi WhoBuddy,
I am glad you said that, because it's really helped me already - just saying what you said about what the book meant to you, and what you've taken away from it. 

I've been struggling a bit this week - but at the same time, I feel I'm getting closer to different wounded parts of me, and experiencing the feelings - and that's causing me to feel more 'raw' and 'exposed' - but I feel sure it's on a path to enabling me to reach out to those parts and those feelings, and I'm hoping that my 'adult self' can be empathic and caring to the wounded parts.

I really do feel 'hope' about the book - but I find myself going very slowly - i.e. some books I would read very quickly, but this one - I'm finding I read a couple of paragraphs and then do something else, etc.

Interesting.

Hope  :)

Quote from: Hope67 on February 21, 2018, 08:19:39 PM

Quote from: Whobuddy on February 20, 2018, 10:28:11 PM
I really do feel 'hope' about the book - but I find myself going very slowly - i.e. some books I would read very quickly, but this one - I'm finding I read a couple of paragraphs and then do something else, etc.
Hope  :)

I am thankful you are setting a slow pace for this. I often put too much pressure on myself to do things faster than I am comfortable with. One of my many cptsd symptoms.  :hug:

Hi WhoBuddy,
I completely understand the pressure sometimes to do things faster than you might be comfortable with - I recognise that tendency in myself too - but it's good to know we 'can' set our own pace, do things in our own time, and that all the threads are here for when we feel up to share something, and again, if we don't want to share something - that's ok too.  I like the fact we can choose what to share and not share.  I think it's liberating - my FOO tried to stifle my choices, and 'tell me what to do' - and I am thankful that now I'm NC with them, I can 'be my own person' - and finding out 'who' I am as a person - alongside understanding the wounded parts of me - recognising my 'inner children' and hopefully 'giving them some care and love' - which I feel they were vastly deprived of - it's how I think I will hopefully heal all the parts of me, and maybe 'integrate' - I guess I'm just sharing my hopes for how things might turn out - and I do think that Janina's book, plus all the amazing support here in the forum, from great people like you and everyone else - I think together we can hopefully achieve what we would like to - in our own time, and allowing ourselves time to process.

But at the same time, I recognise for myself, that I mustn't put any pressure on myself either - therefore I'll do whatever I can on any one day, and maybe another day, I won't be able to do anything, but that's ok.   :)

Hope  :)

p8 of the book:
Just quoting a line, where Janina says:
..."mindfulness of parts" approach in which I help clients learn at first to mindfully scan their bodies and feeling states for the communications from their fragmented selves"

This reminded me that I've noticed sometimes at night, and occasionally in the daytime that I have a pain in the left-hand-side of my head, and I actually think that is a communication from a 'fragmented' part of myself - wanting to communicate to me - about pain and what it represents.  I thought this last night, and also there are times when I feel constricted in my throat area - and I also relate to that being a communication too.

I think this is what Janina is referring to - I hope I'm right in assuming that, but I just wanted to mention that here - as I am just reading the 'introduction' so far in the book, and I'm on p.8.

Hope  :)

I've just finished reading 'the introduction' and so that means I'll be up to p.19 of the book, and about to read Chapter 1 next.  Chapter 1 is entitled "The Neurobiological Legacy of Trauma: How We Become Fragmented" and I am hoping to read that in the next few days, but just today, I want to reflect on having read the 'introduction' - and just say that I feel as if the author (Janina) is a very compassionate and competent author - she's really outlined how the book will operate, and what is contained in each chapter.  She has really convinced me that I'm in 'safe hands' to read her book - and I'll just copy the final paragraph of that 'introduction' where she says:

"Pyschotherapists have wondered and worried and philosophized for hundreds of years about the nature of healing.  This book describes one theory about healing the effects of trauma and traumatic attachment that emerged from my clinical observations: healing is the outcome of reversing long-standing patterns of self-alienation and building the capacity to love and accept our "selves".  When we reclaim our lost souls and wounded children, befriend them, and allow ourselves to trust deeply felt compassionate impulses, to reach out to them and build bonds of secure attachment, they feel safe and welcome at long last.  And we feel whole."

My conclusion having read that 'introduction' is the book should be really good and I feel like it will help me.

It's actually made me feel quite emotional - at the thought that I really think this could be a key to feeling 'whole' and to healing my wounded parts.   

Will be back in this thread when I read the next chapter.

Hope  :)

p.s.  WhoBuddy - thank you again for recommending this amazing book. 

Hope everyone who wants to will comment and add their own reflections on the book, if they want to here.   :)

Hello Hope,
Thank you for continuing to post little extracts of the book as you gently progress through it. I am becoming more curious than ever, and can't wait to get my copy.

I think I would feel quite emotional too. The themes you mention go to the core, right to the heart of where we have become wounded and disconnected from ourselves.

Quotehealing is the outcome of reversing long-standing patterns of self-alienation and building the capacity to love and accept our "selves".  When we reclaim our lost souls and wounded children, befriend them, and allow ourselves to trust deeply felt compassionate impulses, to reach out to them and build bonds of secure attachment, they feel safe and welcome at long last.  And we feel whole."

This made we think "wow", she gets it! She's putting feelings into words. If this book can help us to reconnect and feel safe within, that will be some achievement. 

I look forward to finding out more.

Hi FenStarShimmer,
Yes, it is amazing to be reading such a book - I really feel like "she gets it" too.  I hope your copy arrives soon! 

*******
Just wanted to share a part from Chapter 2, which is entitled: "Understanding Parts, Understanding Responses" - as it resonated with me:
p.37 Uninvited Remembering:
"As difficult as it can be to dilberately recall traumatic experiences as a past event, the brain's "negativity bias" (Hanson, 2014), its tendency to perceive and prioritize negative stimuli more quickly than positive stimuli, results in long-term sensitivity to all cues related to previous danger.  Even very subtle cues (e.g. Gillian's being alone at home or feeling disappointed) can stimulate the implicit memories and inadvertent uninvited "remembering".  Without stimulus discrimination, unavailable when the prefrontal cortex is inhibited, the body responds as if the individual was facing life-or-death threat now.  It instinctively mobilizes the same survival defense responses as if the client were in immediate danger.  For survivors of trauma in their 40's, 50's and 60's, this reactivation of memory via triggers has been especially costly.  Many have been victims of triggering for many more years than they were exposed to the actual traumatic events.  Without awareness that their triggered responses are evidence of body and emotional memory, they "believe" the pounding heartbeat, burning shame, braced muscles, inability to breathe, numbing, and/or explosive rage are signs that they are in danger.  When it becomes clear that they are not at risk, other fears arise: maybe they are going crazy, or have proof that they are defective, or maybe they are just going through the motions of life "pretending".  On the basis of this "evidence", many traumatized individuals isolate and withdraw, end healthy relationships prematurely or explosively, or can't end unhealthy ones.  Many function but avoid living life fully to reduce their exposure to triggers, and others engage in self-destructive behaviour to manage the overwhelming feelings and activation, only to feel more damaged and defective."

Wow - I find that paragraph really insightful - it helps a lot to hear that - thinking about my own 'physical' feelings - that I get when I have EF's - things like my left side of my head hurting, the lump in my throat feeling tight and as if it's choking me - I've experienced unexplained rashes on my body before at certain times - as a child I suffered from frequent 'hives' and other things - my body has been crying out and responding - and the cues and triggers are subtle - often I don't even catch them, but I am beginning to be more 'mindful' and 'notice' more triggers - and I'm relieved to have something to 'hang these things onto' - i.e. that it's down to the trauma and the residue of that - rather than me being in danger in the present moment.

I've also noticed that whilst reading this book - I've been noticing more past memories - different fragments coming back to the surface - reminding me of things - and it feels to me as if there are some distinct 'inner children' making contact in that way - bringing me bits of their memories, and I'm reminding myself that I have an 'adult' self who can be empathic and helpful to others - that's a strong part of my personality that's helped me to 'parent myself' in many respects - I feel bad for saying that, but I also know it to be true.  So any inner critic who dislikes that - then 'tough'...!  I am speaking back to my inner critics - because they don't do me any good...!

The next chapter is called "Changing Roles for Client and Therapist" so I'm going to be reading that next...

Hope  :)

Wow, I really want to read this book!

Thank you for being so bold to start this thread. It is such a treat to be going through this book with someone else who gets it and appreciates it, too!

Here is another 'gem' that I found in Chapter 2:
p. 39 "Feeling compassion or protectiveness for younger selves also helps the clients to feel their "big-ness," to appreciate the physical size differences, the adult capabilities and resources, and the greater respect which individuals are accorded as adults and the greater safety it enables them to count on."

This helped me to try and "unearth" my inner adult that I thought I didn't have.

The first pages of the chapter have an insightful description of what happened to us during our traumatic times. The phrases that jumped out at me were "The individual feels braced and strong: the events unfold in slow motion: and icy calm replaces fear..." This might explain why I remember so much in so much detail. I think I had heard it called trauma-brain in a different book, when the world slows down. Can't say that I ever felt strong, though.

p. 35 "For children or victims of domestic violence who endure day-in-day-out conditions of threat or for whom being seen and not heard is the safest adaptation, it is common to see parasympathetic patterns of passivity, slowed thinking, and depression or shame dominating the individual's experience."   

I can really identify with the depression and shame part of this statement.

Quote from: Whobuddy on February 25, 2018, 10:58:49 PM
It is such a treat to be going through this book with someone else who gets it and appreciates it, too!

Hi Whobuddy,
I agree - it is lovely that we can talk about this book together here - and share experiences - and I am excited by that.  Very grateful to you for pointing me in the direction of this great book. 

I think it has come at the 'right time' for me - and even though I think I am feeling more 'triggered' lately - as a result of reading it - I am also pacing it and feeling generally ok.

It's really helpful to read the bits you picked out - and how you related to them.  I found that I got more out of that chapter again, through reading what you said.  It's a great thing to be able to discuss and share.

Hope  :)

Quote from: Hope67 on February 26, 2018, 04:44:54 PM

I think it has come at the 'right time' for me - and even though I think I am feeling more 'triggered' lately - as a result of reading it - I am also pacing it and feeling generally ok.

Sorry to hear that you are feeling triggered. You are wise to pace it to your comfort level.

Hi Whobuddy,
Thank you - you're right - pacing is important.

I popped back just now because I wanted to say that I find it quite hard to 'pace' - I have ended up reading more of the chapters of the book, currently I'm on p.80, which is Chapter 5 "Befriending Our Parts" - and I think that part of what was triggering to me was thinking that somehow I should 'make notes on the chapters to share here in this book thread' - and then I felt like 'Oh no, how can you do that - you can't keep up with that, you're overwhelmed' - and then I felt different 'parts' of me were clamouring to be heard - and rather than engaging with them as an 'interested observer' - I've ended up 'blending' with them, and then wondering about past memories and whether I was infact being 'driven' by a dissociated part, rather than acting in my own right as a person. 

Anyway, I read this on p.80, and it completely resonated, and I want to share that bit:

"Sarah at first picked compassion but quickly found that she felt so overwhelmed when she opened her heart to the young parts that, in the end, she couldn't feel for them because she was too blended: she felt only the tidal wave of their emotions.  Then she chose calm as the quality she wanted to cultivate but found that triggering, too.  "I think it's too close to having to be quiet and not move," she realized.  Finally, as her third choice, she picked curiosity.  That didn't trigger the parts, but because she blended so quickly with their intense reactivity, she often missed the chance to be curious.  For her, it was easiest simply to observe her body responses: to mindfully notice when she was triggered and observe the activated thoughts, feelings, and body sensations as "things of interest", rather than interpret or describe them in narrative."

That paragraph is really helpful to me at this time, and instead of pressurising myself to do 'anything' I am just going to reflect on things as and when they are helpful to me - and come and talk about them here.

I think I was feeling a pressure to 'go through the book' in order' and write something 'helpful' - but really - why am I feeling like that - it makes it seem like some kind of homework assignment, and noone is asking me to do that.  I am putting pressure on myself, where no pressure is needed.

Even as I write this, I think - oh no, they'll all think I'm a bit mad.  I suppose that goes back to the films like 'Sybil' where she was treated as if she was 'mad' rather than looked at as a person who has had trauma in her childhood and developed ways to cope.  I relate to her character, because I relate to how that feels - there are also times in my past that I feel I 'lost time' or 'acted like a completely different character to who I feel I am' - as if another part of my personality had control on my actions and my ways of being.

But I am thankful that right at this moment, I feel 'together' and as if the calm and empathic side of myself, is here with me now, and that's the part that I know is my adult part and will look after all the wounded parts.

I'm going to do something else now, but I'm glad to have written this, because putting my insecurities out there, and just admitting them, feels cathartic to me right now.  I'm glad I did it. 

Most of all, I'm happy to be reading this book, I feel like Janina is a 'therapist' and 'caring person'  in how she writes and that she's written a book that is safe and caring and will be helpful. 

Hope  :)

Hi hope, I'm so greatful to you for sharing this book on here, I'm finding it really helpful for me in 'understanding ' a little more about myself and can totally relate to what the author is saying, sometimes I just need that clarification as to why I'm feeling/acting like I am!
I hope you continue to share this with us.

Chapter 5 was very helpful to me also. I will write more about it later. And I agree that it can sound kind of 'crazy' but the way it resonates with us tells us that this is important and helpful in our journey to wholeness.

Hi Eyessoblue,
I am glad that you are finding the excerpts from the book helpful, and I will definitely be continuing to write here about it.  It really helps me to share it, so I'm also glad you find it helpful too. 

Hi Whobuddy,
Thanks for saying that you relate to the 'crazy' sounding thing - and I also found Chapter 5 to be incredibly helpful. 

Hope  :)

In going through the book again and also looking back at my life as a whole, I am beginning to question Fisher's 'going on with normal life self' as being my adult self. And this was key to the book making sense and helping me so much. So this isn't easy.

I tried to go along with her assertion that anything one does that is adult-like means one is operating as their adult self. Some of her examples are paying bills, going to appts, going to work. But I am seeing that I lived my life as two personas since earliest memory. There was the one who was neglected/abused and another false self that was how I needed to appear to others. It seems more like parallel parts rather than one being the adult. This false self did what she needed to in order to survive. She is really just a wounded child herself and not really able or qualified to offer much comfort to the other 'parts' in any sort of genuine way. 

This bears more thinking about and I don't intend to throw out all the concepts in the book because identifying the wounds has really helped. I was wondering what you thought about the 'going on with normal life self?'

Quote from: Whobuddy on March 04, 2018, 12:53:26 PM
It seems more like parallel parts rather than one being the adult. This false self did what she needed to in order to survive. She is really just a wounded child herself and not really able or qualified to offer much comfort to the other 'parts' in any sort of genuine way. 

This bears more thinking about and I don't intend to throw out all the concepts in the book because identifying the wounds has really helped. I was wondering what you thought about the 'going on with normal life self?'

Hi Whobuddy,
It's really interesting to hear your thoughts about the 'going on with normal life self' and I relate to what you're saying very much.  I know that I have managed to 'cope with normal life' - in that I pay bills, have gone to work, have attended appointments etc' - but in terms of playing 'parts' - I actually am thinking that there are 'several parts' (or wounded children at various ages) who have 'driven' me - at different moments, and in different 'sections' of my life.

The 'self' that I feel is most like the 'going on with normal life' self - is a persona that I think is capable of being empathic and caring, and I am grateful that I have that 'side' - and it is quite 'strong'.  Quite present in my life, and I am thankful for that part.   

You know, I'm really keen to pursue this book and read more, but this month is really triggering for me in terms of quite a few significant dates and things that are coming up in it, and I am struggling to contain the concerned/worried/scared parts of me, who are clamouring for my 'caring/protective' side to care for them and get them through it. 

Just today - I know I need to face something this afternoon - a social 'thing' I can't get out of - and I am already having a lot of dissociation as different parts try to hijack me, and I experience more emotional flashbacks in relation to their concerns.

But I also 'know' that my 'coping face' will somehow 'get herself in gear' and help me out - and I'll get through it.  But it takes a lot of energy these days.  Especially now I'm actually more in tune with realising what is going on. 

But the 'knowing more what is going on' - is helpful, and the book is so helpful in that respect.

I really hope to be able to read some more tomorrow, once the weekend is over and I get through this afternoon.

WhoBuddy - I am grateful that we can discuss this book together and our feelings and thoughts in relation to this.  Thank you and I hope you are ok.  I am also reflecting on my 'life as a whole' and it is quite mind-blowing to consider things with the new knowledge and framework that this book gives.  I think it's the 'key' I needed to begin to really put things together and hopefully repair some things too.

I agree with you, "it isn't easy' - but I really hope that we can find our way through all of this.

Hope  :)

I'm still in Chapter 5, on p.94 at the moment - and I'm reading about "Befriending our parts" - and how "clients often spontaneously experience compassion for their parts once they are no longer blended with them" and towards the bottom of that page it says "The more you hold her, the safer she will feel, and then the calmer you will feel.  She can't let you feel calm and centered if she's terrified."

I really relate to that last statement - because I think I am having difficulty 'unblending' from some of my 'parts' - especially when I've been triggered - and can feel 'terrified' sometimes.  So the fact is that this chapter is helping me, because Janina (the author) is talking about steps to enable me to 'unblend' and to communicate with the different parts. 

p95 - "...the going on with normal life self is in charge of the body's health and well-being, must provide food, shelter, and other necessities, and is focused on present moment priorities, it is quite literally the "host" or home base for all parts of the self."

"However, when clients finally come for treatment, the going on with normal life self is often demoralized or depleted, identified with certain parts and intimidated by or ashamed of others.   Although the normal life part has the innate ability to become interested in rather than afraid of the parts, he or she may need education to recognize them as young child selves trying to communicate their trauma-related fears and phobias."

This is really helpful to me - I relate to this.

(I'm finding it quite hard to get through the chapter - mainly because I've been facing some 'stuff' 'in real life' - but just reading a few lines, it really helps each time, and I feel comforted. 

Just wanted to share that bit of the book, and those few reflections.

Hope  :)

p96
I had to copy this part, because I feel it was written 'for me' - I relate to it VERY much:

"I know you wish the parts would just go away, but would that be fair?  To neglect them the way you were neglected?  I don't believe you're that kind of person.  The person I know you to be would never reject wounded children because they were upset or inconvenient."
"Think of the parts as your roommates - you all share the same body, the same home.  You have a choice: you can learn to accept each other and get along, or you can struggle to win every battle!"
"We wouldn't be sitting her today if it weren't for your parts.  By taking on the survive-at-all-costs role, they allowed you to leave home, go to college, and start a life far away from the world of your childhood.  It's only fair to take them with you to this better, safer world - it could be a way to thank them.  It's not much of a thanks to leave them 'there' while you go forward."
"Rightly or wrongly, you and the parts are inseparable: as long as their distress becomes your distress.  For you to live a life freer of fear, anger, and shame, the parts need to be welcomed - they have to feel safe."

The above are all 'explanations' that Janina (the therapist and author of the book) gives to clients - she said they are generally positive, normalizing, and speak to the 'best self' of the client.

I actually found that I related to each and every single one of the things she said.  Except that I don't wish the parts would go away, as I want to meet them, understand and get to know them, and help them, so I want to engage with them, and I already feel I'm beginning to make some progress in doing that.  I have 'been in touch' with some of them, and I'm beginning to write about them in my book of diagrams.  Also, I am getting more experiences in my sleep and dreams, that seem to be communications of intensely raw feelings, which I relate to the wounded parts inside.  I've found that really incredible - I'm less afraid of that now - and more 'curious' to find out more.

Hope  :)

Quote from: Hope67 on March 07, 2018, 07:04:33 PM
  p95 - "...the going on with normal life self is in charge of the body's health and well-being, must provide food, shelter, and other necessities, and is focused on present moment priorities, it is quite literally the "host" or home base for all parts of the self."
"However, when clients finally come for treatment, the going on with normal life self is often demoralized or depleted, identified with certain parts and intimidated by or ashamed of others.   Although the normal life part has the innate ability to become interested in rather than afraid of the parts, he or she may need education to recognize them as young child selves trying to communicate their trauma-related fears and phobias."
This is really helpful to me - I relate to this.
(I'm finding it quite hard to get through the chapter - mainly because I've been facing some 'stuff' 'in real life' - but just reading a few lines, it really helps each time, and I feel comforted. 
Just wanted to share that bit of the book, and those few reflections.
Hope  :)

Thank you for sharing this. Interesting to think of that going on with life part as the 'host' or home base. I thought mine was my 'inner adult' and I was relieved to find that I had such an adult in me. But now I am wondering if this host isn't just the part of me that protected me since earliest memory. My traumas began when I was so young basically no 'self' was developed. I simply had the parts that were wounded and the part that strategized to try and avoid more wounding. And that part grew up and had to use those strategies to get a job, home, etc. But not necessarily an adult self.

Maybe I am just overthinking this and making it more complicated than it is - another result of my cptsd.

Thanks for being there. We can try and work this out together.

I actually found that I related to each and every single one of the things she said.  Except that I don't wish the parts would go away, as I want to meet them, understand and get to know them, and help them, so I want to engage with them, and I already feel I'm beginning to make some progress in doing that.
***************
I can't say that I wished mine would go away either but I experienced some surprising emotions about them. I felt sad that I had them and there were so many. I felt angry about what happened that wounded them and shaped them into the parts that they are. And for a while I had to set them aside because it was very intense to take this step.

This paragraph in Chapter 5 was meaningful to me:
Chapter 5 p. 79
"In an Internal Family Systems approach (Schwartz, 1995, 2001), the observer role is ascribed to "self," an internal state that draws upon eight "C" qualities: Curiosity, compassion, calm, clarity, creativity, courage, confidence, and connectedness. "Self" is not just a meditative state or dependent upon having positive experiences in life: each quality is an innate resource available to all human beings no matter what their past or present circumstances. Most importantly for the purposes of psychotherapy, access to these states creates an internal healing environment."

So we all have these 8 qualities no matter what life has dealt us and how early in life our development was hijacked. Very good to hear that I am not 'empty' but rather possess these resources. Perhaps this is where I need to start the search for my authenticity.

Hi WhoBuddy,
Yes, I found that list of qualities within everyone to be really helpful as well - I think the book reaches out to anyone, no matter what their previous experiences - and having that list of qualities and resources within ourselves is great, and I feel optimistic to 'wake' the different traits/wake them up and hopefully use them to help me to cope with my wounded parts.

I am more hopeful since I started reading this book - and it's validating to hear your experiences of it as well.

Also, I am recognising that there are several wounded parts, from different parts of my childhood, and adolescence too - also - one of them is male, which is interesting, as I am a female.  It's like an internal family - consisting of different characters with different needs and concerns and worries. 

It's also helping me to 'explain' my reactions to triggering events better - because I can begin to see why my reaction is so strong and intense - and has mixed aspects to it - I guess at those times, more parts are reacting, and there is more 'internal conflict' there - I might talk more about that in the thread I opened about 'identifying the different parts of me' - once I've got more of a feel for what my experience was like.  I find it confusing at the moment, and over-whelming sometimes, but right at this moment, as I am writing this, I feel relatively calm, so that's good.

Hope  :)

p97 Chapter 5 "Befriending Our Parts":

I relate to this part:

"Most clients have evolved a procedurally learned habitual strategy for dealing with the intrusive feelings and impulses, ignore the tears or self-denigrating thoughts or voices.  Others interpret each feeling, impulse, or belief as "my feeling" or "how I feel", forgetting that they may have felt differently even seconds before.  The former strategy yields a more emotionally cut-off, controlled way of being that interferes with the enjoyment of life.  the latter leads to chaos or a feeling of being overwhelmed, out of control, crazy, on the verge of implosion or explosion.  Not only do these patterns need to be noticed and translated into parts language, but it is also important that the therapy emphasize strengthening the normal life self and enhancing the qualities associated with "self" or "self energy" in the Internal Family Systems Approach (Schwartz, 2001).  The normal life self must develop the capacities of "wise mind": staying connected to present time, capable of meta-awareness or the capacity to hover above, seeing all of the parts, and the ability to make decisions for the sake of the whole.  The concept of 'self' in Internal Family Systems helps clients connect to the states of compassion, creativity, curiosity, and perspective, while the going on with normal life self of the Structural Dissociation model emphasizes the importance of developing the functional ability to take action to implement decisions for the sake of the system.  If we put the two models together and encourage the development of wise mind or "self-energy" in the going on with normal life self, then, we have leadership informed by clarity of view, compassionate acceptance, and the capacity for behaviour change.  The challenge is how to access a going on with normal life part and convince that aspect of self to not only assume a leadership role but also cultivate the qualities of self, curiosity, compassion, clarity, calm, creativity, courage, commitment, and connection."

I know that is a long and complex sounding paragraph, but breaking it down - it makes sense to me - and I hope very much to move away from the previous habitual strategies that I've employed, and be able to cultivate the qualities listed at the end, in that final sentence.  It makes sense to me, and I've already seen how different I can feel if I engage with parts and communicate with them, rather than feeling they are 'me'.

I'm also beginning to think about the 'inner critic' differently - as if that's a wounded part - maybe an angry part - and I want to explore that.

I'm going to copy and paste the list of qualities to my Journal - to remind me...

Hope  :)

p100
"When clients pause their emotional reactivity to "befriend" themselves, to be curious and interested rather than dismissing or judgemental, they slow time."

"Autonomic arousal settles; there is a relaxing of the sense of urgency to do or be anything different.  With their bodies in a calmer state, they can be more at peace, and, as a result, their parts feel more at peace."

Trigger warnings - I found this next paragraph extremely emotive - but probably because it spoke directly (or seemed to) speak to one of my wounded inner children/parts, but I'm glad I read it:

"As I made my case for accepting and welcoming her parts to a young graduate student, Gaby, she grew thoughtful. "These are good ideas. What about having a daily meditation circle?" she asked.  "I could sit and invite them to join me in the circle.  They wouldn't have to talk, but if they wanted to tell me about things they were worried or upset about, they could.  It would be a safe place for all of us."  The next week, she reported back.  "It was amazing to see them all there - to know they came to meet me and to see if I would really listen.  A lot of them were upset about how stressful my job is and the memories it brings back.  I told them I'd talk to you about how to make it easier for them".

(My reflection on the above paragraph are that I teared up when reading it - because I think one of my inner children, or maybe even several of them 'listened' and liked the idea, and also that I related to the fact my own job (which I no longer do now) was incredibly stressful in many ways, and I don't know how I coped with it - even though I did it for a couple of decades!  Each and every day was stressful - I don't know how I coped.

I like the idea of the Meditation circle and inviting the 'inner parts' to join - and also the lack of pressure on them to speak, that feels safe and possibly something I could try.  I'll think about it more.

I don't think I'm going to read more today - I feel as if it's taking me an eternity to get through Chapter 5, but it's go so much packed in every sentence and paragraph, that I then end up processing and then I have things 'in real life' that I need to do - and I think I need to do some of them now - but I'm glad to have read this book today, and I'm really glad that it's putting pieces in place and making sense.

WhoBuddy - I think this book is amazing.  I'm glad you're discussing it too - it's so helpful and validating.
Fenstarshimmer - I hope you get your copy soon, I know it's on order from the library.  Hope you enjoy it as well, and that you'll join here - or wherever you want to write about it - if you want to.   :)

Feeling more positive today - also calmer...

Hope  :)

"the qualities of self, curiosity, compassion, clarity, calm, creativity, courage, commitment, and connection"
*******
I was wondering what you think about these. The author presents them as if they are innate. When I searched inside myself trying to be very honest this is what I discovered:
Curiosity - yes, especially intellectual curiosity.
Compassion - this is new to me, I don't see it as innate because I didn't experience this in childhood so it is not something familiar to me.
Clarity - I desire clarity, search for clarity but it wasn't a natural part of my mindset. I grew up steeped in chaos, confusion, and contradiction.
Calm - again, I desire this but it is not always accessible.
Creativity - yes.
Courage - a definite no.
Commitment - definitely committed to my own survival.
Connection - this comes and goes.

Hi Whobuddy,
I have read what you wrote, and I am considering how I would reply regarding the qualities you listed - I am still thinking about them, so once I can put something together - I will do so. 

Maybe I'll try now - to see what comes as a 'first-impression' kind of thing, and then maybe repeat the process at a later time, to see how it changes after contemplation:

I'll give it a go:

Curiosity: I am definitely 'curious' - as a small child I watched TV avidly, read books, all to find out about life and experiences - seemed very important to me, and it still is - people interest me so much.  I have a lot of curiosity.

Compassion - I think I became a parentified child from an early age - and that I was 'caring' 'for' my parents - trying to make them 'happy' - trying to be compassionate to their thoughts, their feelings, and also to anyone I related to - I trusted my FOO, I didn't realise that they were hiding things from me, that they were keeping things secret.  I feel I was too 'compassionate' if anything.  I wish I'd been wiser.  I still feel compassionate as an adult - towards people, but I feel I lack some compassion for myself - sometimes I am harsh towards myself and my abilities.   My compassion turns outwards, but I need more for myself.

Clarity - I relate to what you said about 'clarity' being steeped in chaos, confusion and contradiction - as my childhood experiences were bizarre really.  Bizarre is not the right word.  I just don't know how to describe it - but those words do capture the flavour of it well.  I 'seek clarity' - but having just snippets of memory - and recognising that alot of it is pre-verbal for me, makes clarity very hard to find.  Any narrative of my childhood is very much what my parents have 'told me' - but they lied to me about things, and so it's hard.  I suspect that clarity is going to be challenging, but I am hopeful that befriending the wounded parts, and getting more snippets of communications from them, building those up over time, will maybe add some clarity to things.  I hope so.

Calm - I know what you mean about this being hard to access - but for me personally, I do find calm - it comes and it goes - I can't always 'control' it - because of being hijacked by EF's and triggered etc, but I am beginning to do more 'mindful' kind of things - and I also found that doing 'dot-to-dots' is very calming for me!  Maybe engaging a different part of my brain.  I also do the movement of the finger from side to side - which I think they do in eye movement desensitization - and I think that does something positive for me, and calms me.  I was reading more of the book yesterday and found that my inner wounded parts were upset - and I put my hand on my stomach to calm myself, and the touch was calming.  That made me feel very reassured.

Creativity - I feel stuck when it comes to 'creativity' - I would like to draw, paint, create, sew, but I feel like I can't start these things - I am really stuck.  I need to work on this - but I am fearful somehow.  I don't understand why - but I really want to be creative and express that side of myself.

Courage - I 'can' be brave sometimes - especially when the stronger parts of me are 'driving me' - they can get me through all kinds of situations, when I'm feeling stronger - but if the more wounded and upset parts of me are 'driving me' then I can end up afraid like a hermit, and not able to face things at all.  I am really contrasting in that respect. 

Commitment - I do feel committed to life and living, and to getting through this.  I have a lot of hope and optimism, so I am committed.

Connection - being dissociated a lot of the time, even moment to moment, then connection really is compromised for me.  But I am trying to focus on things like 'watching a TV programme and understanding what's going on' - reading something and trying to keep track of what it's about - coping with engaging with friends when I see them - even though I'm usually dissociated for the first 20 minutes of any interaction - my connection is definitely something to try to work on - it comes and goes, moment to moment.

Whobuddy - this has been more helpful than I thought - I am amazed I can write all that - but the thing is - today - I feel stronger, and it's like a more competent part of me is 'in control' today - and so here I am - talking a lot.

Glad I could answer these questions - and thank you for sharing your replies, and being here in this thread.

I would imagine that our replies to these questions will adapt over time, and depending on where we are in our journeys of trying to make sense of life and our selves.

Hope  :)

Hi Whobuddy and Hope. Mind if I join? I don't have the book, but I still think I could contribute some ideas.

There's a similar concept in mindfulness that reminds me of the Cs being innate. It's the metaphor of clouds covering the skies representing your thoughts and feelings. The clouds might be there. It might be raining or snowing. It might have thunder or strong winds, but behind them is the clear calm of the sky.

Like this analogy, maybe they don't mean in that the calm or the other Cs is actually active in your life. But covered behind the negatives in your life. This is strange, because we don't always see removing negatives as making a positive. In a farm, if you remove some bad apples, it doesn't mean you have good apples. Here though, it actually points to the idea that you don't have to force yourself to 'look'  for the good apples, but in naturally shedding what's bad, the good will be already there.


....

Can I join with the 8Cs reflection though?

Curiosity : It's pretty much my most definable trait. I think I can get interested in about anything if I wanted to, unless it's dangerous or something like that.

Compassion : I'm getting more like this as I participate in this forum. It seems though I have some negative flashbacks around it - since my mom was often very strict with being "kind" and "polite". Kindness was something I saw as something you "should" do or punishment will happen, than actually something I want to do. So it's still awkward to me to be "kind" sometimes, I guess.

Clarity : This is the thing I'm best in with the Cs but sometimes I think I overindulge it. I have lots of knowledge, and not always the courage to use it or feel strongly motivated about it. Interesting to think that a C can be overused than just underused. Many people's goal in life is to gain knowledge to gain experience. My purpose in life on the other hand is to gain experience so I can gain knowledge.

Calm : I'm not the best with this and not that terrible with it either. I can be high strung really with my overactive mind really, but in other times I can relax with my thoughts, sometimes even relax without my thoughts - which is new to me. I guess I get calmer as time passes.

Creativity : I'm pretty good in making ideas and have tried creative fiction, singing and drawing before. I guess I find a certain pleasure in more scientific creativity - which is when a person imagines several possibilities on why something might work, find an unconventional way to explain or experiment on an idea or find an original way to apply a concept.   :whistling:

Courage : It depends on the situation. Courage for emotional vulnerability? Well, I can hardly open up to people emotionally at all in real life. Courage to take risks? Sometimes. Courage to be willing to admit mistakes and change beliefs? Very. I think the different Cs can be different levels in different areas of life.

Committed : I'm very committed and find it easy to focus. I never make a schedule or a step to step plan, but I follow through with something essential to my life everyday. It tends to tie in with a very strong curiosity about improving. So it's interesting how different Cs can affect each other too.

Connection : I've been feeling this more, though I still dissociate too. When my emotions were much more numbed, I saw connection as something that pains you. Worrying about their lives, fearing them leaving, having to cause conflicts and so on. It seemed so. . . troublesome. But I've learned otherwise strongly today, though the flashbacks to those times still makes me numb to that at times.

Good luck with all of you, even those who aren't posting anything.  :hug:

Hi Decimal Rocket,
:hug: to you, and I'm so glad you've joined us here, and that you've shared your Reflections - I am going to come back later today and read what you wrote - right now I'm rushing about doing things at home, but I am hoping to have some time later to read through what you wrote, and I'm looking forward to that. 

I really think it helps to share reflections like this, and I'm so glad you joined us here.  Whobuddy and a few others are reading this book - I know FenStarshimmer is possibly still waiting for her copy to come from the library, and maybe there are others out there who are also reading - and the fact you've joined us here, it's really great. 

I asked Kizzie if she could include the book in the ones that are sold with a discount, for us, and she agreed she would include it.  So that's exciting.  I am grateful to Kizzie for that.

Hope  :)

p.s.  Decimal Rocket, I haven't read what you wrote yet, but I will do later, when I have a bit more time to focus.   :)

Hi again,
Decimal Rocket - I said I'd be back to read what you wrote, but I know I won't be able to do that till another day, due to how this day is turning out.  But I wanted to pop back and explain that - because for me, a trigger that really wounds my 'Little Hope' is when someone 'says they'll do something and then doesn't do it' - and I don't want to do that to anyone else - i.e. promise something and then not be there to do it.

So I just wanted to say that, and I do intend to read the post - when I can - but I can't do it today.

You may not even see this reply - it might not be a trigger that bothers you in the same way as it does me, but I just wanted to explain why I didn't do what I had hoped to do.

Hope  :)

Hi again - I wanted to come back and read what you wrote, Decimal Rocket, and I have to say I'm impressed by your ideas about the clouds being a metaphor.  I guess I hadn't really thought about 'what' the C's represent - just that they were a list to consider - but I think they must be more meaningful than that - like a core structure to hold together all the wounded parts - a substance with meaning behind it. 

I also think that I need to spend more time re-reading things that people have written, because I am well aware that I 'miss things' or my concentration doesn't allow me to 'see things' - and that each time I can re-read something, I can hopefully get something new from it, and see yet another perspective or way of thinking about something that hadn't been 'open' to me before.

Thank you for sharing your reflections - and for joining in with our discussions here. 

I'm hoping to do some more reading of the book tomorrow - I really hope I get the chance to do that, as each time I read it, I learn something more that is helpful to me.  Even though it is at the same time quite over-whelming to be getting in touch more with different inner wounds and parts of me. 

I admit, I panicked a bit when I didn't get to come back here in the afternoon to read your writing, Decimal Rocket - it was like I felt I was letting you down.  I didn't want to do that.  That was why I came back to tell you I'd pop back later - when I could. 

Anyway, I feel better now.  I hope you are ok yourself.   Hope you had a good day, that it was ok.

Hope  :)

p.s.  Whobuddy - I hope to be reading the book again soon.  I hope you're ok too.   :)

I've ended up reading more, but couldn't 'write here' about it until now - and now I'm on p.204 which is a Chapter called 'Repairing the Past'.  I just wanted to write about a couple of bits that resonated particularly with me. The first is from p.203, where it says:
"When young parts are anxious or distressed, asking clients to place a hand over the heart or chest, or "over the place where you notice the little part's grief" has a calming, regulating effect on most clients and enables them to send a somatic message to the parts: "It's going to be OK - I'm here for you."  This simple intervention reaches below the habits of self-alienation and rejection of the not-me parts.  Non-threatening to most parts, it communicates a caring that clients often have not yet learned to feel toward their young selves."

My thoughts on that are that when I've tried to do it, it really does seem to 'work'.  I feel calmer.

I also relate to what it says on p.204:
"Rachel also found it hard to make the leap from identifying her parts by their feelings of distress, negative thoughts, and physical ailments (headaches, dizziness, fatigure) to engaging with them emotionally.  She could use unblending skills to differentiate her normal life self from the intense reactions of her parts, but she couldn't take the next step.  She could not emotionally connect to them - almost as if there were a wall separating the normal life self and the trauma-related parts".

I think the above sentence does very much encapsulate the 'difficulty' between the intellectualising aspect and the 'feeling part'.  I am trying to get to grips with all of this, and it is a an overwhelming terrain, but I am amazed by what is beginning to 'come out' when I try to connect.  I think it's 'been a wall' in the past - and I can finally begin to break through and connect and hopefully befriend my wounded parts - they are showing me more things - both in my dreams, and in little flashbacks too - snippets of memory - I am grasping those and writing them down, but sometimes they are so fleeting that I don't catch them in time, and then they are woolly and forgotten - so I need to be more disciplined to write them down. 

Feeling stronger today.  Quite like that feeling.

Hope  :)

I'm reading p.211 at the moment, and there's some session notes, between someone called 'Carl' and the therapist, and I relate to this part:
"Me: "That's all the more reason why he needs you to stay present and not abandon him by blending with him.  He really needs you to hang in there.  Let him know you're there - with your feelings and your body - make sure he can feel you with him.  Can he?"
Carl: "Yes, he says he can feel me trying..."
Me: "That's really important, huh?  He can feel that you are there and you are trying, and that's new for him.  No one even tried to do that for him before..."

(The above dialogue is in relation to Carl's experiences of his wounded inner child, the little boy.   I also relate to what was said by the therapist on p.212, towards the end of their dialogue:

Me: "The key is making him a priority, just as you would if you adopted a child of your own.  You would keep him in mind from the time you woke up in the morning to the time you went to bed at night.  You would wonder, 'How's my little boy doing?'  Try that.  And if you forget to do that, make sure you apologise to him!"

My own reflections on this are that I would like to try to be more present for my inner child - and I will try to do that for the remainder of this week - as well as keeping an eye out for the various other 'inner wounded parts' that I have been beginning to notice.  But I think that focusing on the little Hope part, who is young and needs my support, as a priority for the moment, as otherwise I think I'll be too over-whelmed.  I am already a bit worried about whether other parts will be upset by my stating that here - so I'll 'keep the door open' so they can each and everyone have a look in, as and when they want to.  Just as a compensation to know that my door is literally always open to them...

Hope  :)

I've just copied and pasted what I wrote in another thread, to also be here, as it's related to this book, that I'm doing this:

In the other thread, which is about 'Acknowledging Different Wounded Parts', I wrote:
WhoBuddy - thinking of you when I write this, because I am finding that it is quite amazing how many snippets of memory and how much the different parts of me seem to be 'communicating with me' now - that I've started the process of focusing on my different parts - I have started to do the Communication Circle exercise in Janina's book, and I've only done it a couple of times, but now I am going to make it a daily practice, because although I didn't experience 'much' when I first did it, I have found that in the hours 'afterwards' - my parts keep showing me things.

What I've noticed is that just as parts have 'shown' me something, there also appears to be a part that acts as a 'part to rub out the memories again' - which makes it hard to capture them for later thinking about - and I know that I tend to 'forget' any things that are emotionally upsetting - or which might be upsetting to some particular part of me - it's as if there's a protector part who 'rubs things out' - and I thought about what SanMagic had said to me when she commented that I don't have a pen and paper by my bed, because maybe the protector part of me is resistant or actually doesn't want me to necessarily remember some things yet - as it believes I can't cope or tolerate it.

But I am feeling more comfortable about the 'process' now - whereas last week I would have described myself as being 'thrown about' by the 'roller-coaster' aspect of things, as I found it hard not to blend with the emotional parts, and now I am finding that I can distance safely, and begin to try to connect and communicate.  I feel like I 'know' a bit better what I'm doing - although it is clearly early days in it.

I just wanted to share that here, and hope that you read this - as I think you do pop back to this thread, and also the 'book thread' too - I just wondered if you have experienced a similar process - which of the Appendices are you relying on most?  I like all of the methods she suggests, and I guess I try each of them from time to time, but the circular meditation is one that I think I can do daily.

Hope  :)"

To just write a bit more - I have actually finished this book - and I feel like I can dip back into it to look back on different parts that I noted as important, and I can especially use the Appendices to work on connecting with my wounded and fragmented inner parts. 

I felt over-whelmed for so long - the last few weeks really - but today I feel calmer.  I feel like I 'understand' more what I'm doing - I hope this feeling will stay a while, as I like it.

It's having a 'framework' that makes sense finally - it really does.  I literally have more 'Hope' which reflects my name, and what I 'hoped' for.

This book is triggering emotionally - but in a good way, as it really makes me feel that the writer 'understands'. 

At the end of the final chapter, entitled "Safety and Welcome" - there is a quote by someone called 'L'Engle, 1972, which says
"I am still every age that I have been.  Because I was once a child, I am always a child.  Because I was once an adolescent, given to moods and ecstasies, these are still part of me, and always will be...  This does not mean that I ought to be trapped or enclosed in any of these ages... but that they are in me to be drawn on... my past is part of what makes the present... and must not be denied or rejected."

This makes sense to me.  I'm going to work hard not to deny or disown the wounded parts of myself, and work on connecting and understanding them - I think it is a positive way forward.

Hope  :)

Hi Hope and WhoBuddy,
I am just popping in to say 'thank you' for recommending this book by Janina Fisher. I ordered a copy from my library, who (fortunately for me) chose to buy the book, as they did not stock it, and began reading it immediately. I will need to buy it as I want to scribble over the pages, make notes and reminders for myself.

Her words speak to me on every page, and deepen my understanding of how trauma has impeded my every day functioning and distorted my personality. She helps me find compassion towards myself, my discarded, lost and shamed parts, and most of all, gives me hope by showing ways to reconnect and feel whole again. She's expanding my vocabulary with new words related to trauma experience and recovery, which will help me to express myself better, more accurately, and clearly.

I am reading every page, starting with the acknowledgements, because there is so much nourishing, validating info in each one.

I learned something in chapter two (page 35) that is helping me make sense of my chronic state of being years ago, an overwhelming exhaustion and passivity in the face of a predator threat, following a period of prolonged terror and captivity immediately prior to the encounter. Maybe others will benefit from this excerpt about 'traumatogenic environments', where the threat of danger is ever-present.

In traumatogenic environments: '... it is more adaptive for both children and adults when their bodies are conditioned to maintain a readiness for potential danger.'

'These automatic patterns of response may be sympathetically activated (biased towards hypervigilance, high arousal, readiness to take action, impulsivity)  or parasympathetically dominant (without energy, exhausted, slowed, numb, disconnected, hopeless and helpless).'

There is a great deal of info out there about fight or flight, and most people expect you to act in the face of a threat, but that is simply not necessarily the case in real life.
Janina Fisher's work backs up Pete Walker's 4F's, and gives the 'Freeze' response even more validity, with her explanation of the parasympathetic response. Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with it, but now, thanks to Janina, I am starting to feel less critical of myself, understanding that this was/is a survival mechanism and served a useful role when there was no other option in my chronically traumatised (internally dysregulated, disorganised, dissociated) state.

I am in chapter three now, and hope to join in more conversation with you later.

Hope - you mentioned that you found this book triggering and had to read it slowly.

I have had to put it down a few times for the same reason. I have had a couple of disturbing dreams since I started reading it too, suggesting it's working on a sub-conscious level.
I do ultimately feel that I am in safe hands with Janina though, as her entire approach is life-affirming and validating. I think some of those little, lost and forgotten, wounded parts are stirring inside of me. The idea of reclaiming them evokes strong feelings, and the need to :hug: them gently back to life.

Quote from: Fen Starshimmer on April 07, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
Her words speak to me on every page, and deepen my understanding of how trauma has impeded my every day functioning and distorted my personality. She helps me find compassion towards myself, my discarded, lost and shamed parts, and most of all, gives me hope by showing ways to reconnect and feel whole again. She's expanding my vocabulary with new words related to trauma experience and recovery, which will help me to express myself better, more accurately, and clearly.

I am reading every page, starting with the acknowledgements, because there is so much nourishing, validating info in each one.

Hi Fen Starshimmer,
I am so glad to hear your book has arrived and that you're already through to Chapter 3 - and I agree with you how nourishing and validating the information is, and it was validating to hear you say that you had had a couple of disturbing dreams, as the same thing happened to me - I had a night terror and some disturbing dreams - like you said, maybe the subconscious is working - I certainly think that seems true.

I have just started reading the same book again from the beginning - just today - and I am already glad to be doing that, as I realise how much I may have dissociated whilst reading it the first time - as I'm picking up fresh information again, and I am glad to have been able to write notes in the book and underline things - so I would think you'd enjoy being able to do the same - once you get your own copy.

I shall keep coming back here to look at this thread, to see how you're getting on - and also to continue discussing with you and WhoBuddy and anyone else who reads Janina's great book.

Hope  :)

Hope wrote:
I have just started reading the same book again from the beginning - just today - and I am already glad to be doing that, as I realise how much I may have dissociated whilst reading it the first time - as I'm picking up fresh information again, and I am glad to have been able to write notes in the book and underline things - so I would think you'd enjoy being able to do the same - once you get your own copy.
***************
I do this, too! When I reread a book it is like reading it again for the first time. Sometimes I don't even remember writing those things in the margins! I had never connected this with dissociation before. Good observation, Hope!

I think the reason is that as my recovery moves forward (sometimes backward) I am never in the same exact spot when I read something as when I read it before so I process it differently and get different things out of it. I can be all over the place with my all or nothing thinking, too. Like when I read something and think that never applies to me and read it again later and think it is something I always have trouble with. Oh, such is my poor traumatized brain.

Fen Starshimmer, I am so happy you are enjoying the book, too! I was so impressed with it when I first began to read it. I told my therapist all about what I was getting out of it and he patiently listened and will support me with what helps me but I could tell it was not his 'cup of tea.' So it is very helpful to be able to write about it here with you!

I collected plush 'parts' that represent my different struggles. I enjoy getting them out or even just knowing they are on my shelf. My parts. Me. They are okay. Different ones stand out at different times. Today, Sadness (from the movie Inside Out) and Peter Pan are the ones. Peter Pan is the one I need to comfort because I was raised in a way that it was not okay to grow up. It wasn't okay to be a child either but growing up was a major wrongdoing. So Peter and I have a lot to talk about. Sadness is always with me. I am so very sad over what happened to me in my childhood. We sit and feel the sadness. And we are glad we are not living that childhood anymore but now we are safe and at times even happy.

But as I have written before the part that is first and foremost is the armored-bandaged character and I learn a lot from that one. I learn about not pushing myself into situations where I will be hurt. I am learning to begin to trust myself to know not to do things that might be harmful. I learn about taking care to bandage the wounds both old and new. I learn that the armor can be a helpful thing but sometimes it shields me from the good stuff, too.

Thanks for getting this ball rolling, Hope. And again, Fen Starshimmer, I am excited you are joining in!

Hi WhoBuddy,
I am so thankful to have read your writing today - because you talked of how you communicate with your Sad part - and how that is helpful to you - and it's helped me to think that maybe today I'm communicating with my 'flat part' - because my morning feels very 'flat' - and I can't think why I feel this way.  But maybe it's just that I'm communicating with my 'flat part'.

I don't know why, but just having this realisation, and also hearing you talk about your plush parts - it makes me feel more hopeful - because whatever emotion I'm feeling - it's an opportunity to communicate with a part, and even the ones that I dislike - instead of pushing them into compartments and closing the door on them (which is likely what I've done in the past) - instead I should sit with them, and listen to them, and find out why they feel so 'flat' or 'sad' or 'depressed' - because when I look at my past now - instead of somehow thinking it was ok - I realise it wasn't ok.  Not at all. 

WhoBuddy and FenStarShimmer - I am so glad you're both reading this book - and that we're sharing this journey - that's how it feels to me - that gives me more hope.

It's good not to feel alone with it - knowing others understand.

I'm realising as I write this, that there's often an optimistic 'part' who tries to pull me out of 'flat times' - but actually I think I should sit with the 'flat side' of myself - because I need to talk and understand more with that part.  So this is helpful.

I won't say more now - but thank you for giving me the space to discuss this.

Hope  :)

Just in the Introduction part of the book, p10 and wanted to make notes on this:

"Rather than focusing on desensitizing the event memories, experts now advise prioritizing transformation of trauma-related states through the cultivation of new experiences.  Instead of focusing on developing a trauma narrative, clients are instead advised to rewrite their "self-defeating" stories and create a healing story that allows them to make meaning of what happened (Michenbaum, 2012).

Further down that page, Janina writes "The client's instinctive avoidance of the trauma and trauma-related parts will continue to re-enact the behaviour of non-protective bystanders if not guided to a different way of working."

Both these sections resonate with me, and it's more meaningful to me the second time of reading.

Today I was able to stay with the 'sad and flat' part of me - even though I wanted to do things to 'lift' and 'avoid' that mood - and I was drawn to things like comfort eating - but I refused to give into that drive, and I stayed with the communication with that wounded part of me - and as the day has gone on, I've discovered that I feel greater resonance.

I just wanted to share that experience and those words, because they were meaningful.  Maybe they will also resonate with someone else. 

Hope  :)

p11 - this part is meaningful:
"The goal of this approach is not remembering: it is repair of the injuries suffered as a result of the traumatic events, whether remembered explicitly as narrative or implicitly as feelings and reactions."

This is really useful to me at the moment. 

Hope  :)

p39 I think this part is really helpful to me at the moment:

"For trauma treatment to be effective, no matter what methods we employ, survivors have to be able to integrate past and present.  Concretely, this step requires education: about what traumatic memory is and is not, about triggers and triggering stimuli, about learning to accurately label triggered states ("this is a feeling memory" - "a body memory"), and cultivating the ability to trust that triggered states "tell the story" of the past without the necessity of either recall or avoid recalling specific incidents.  When the therapist can also help clients connect implicit memory states to young parts of the self, it is easier to address them as a record of old dangers instead of signs of current threat.  Also, when the triggered sensations, emotions, and images are reframed as "the child part's feelings", clients are better able to tolerate their intensity.  Feeling compassion or protectiveness for younger selves also helps the clients to feel their "big-ness", to appreciate the physical size differences, the adult capabilities and resources, and the greater respect which individuals are accorded as adults and the greater safety it enables them to count on."

It's interesting that as I wrote that last sentence, part of me thought - that my FOO didn't really accord me any respect of my 'adult status' during the times they interacted me during the decades that I've been an adult and no longer a child.  It was like they still treated me like their property - as if I had no rights or wishes or any other value in my own right - except to meet their needs.  I wasn't expecting to write that last bit, it's just come to mind as I write this.

Anyway, I just wanted to highlight that part of the book - as I just read it, and somehow it was more meaningful to me this second time of reading the book - it's like I'm perhaps processing things better this time - and noticing certain bits as if it's the first time I've seen them. 

Hope  :)

Hi Hope and WhoBuddy,
Thank you for your encouraging messages and posts.

I am dropping by to say 'hello' and let you know that I am still reading this wonderful book by Janina Fisher, and expanding my understanding of my trauma by the day.

I haven't been well and found myself needing lighter reading for a week or two. But over the last couple of days, I have been getting back into it.

This morning I wrote several pages in my journal about Chapter 5: Befriending our Parts, Sowing the Seeds of Compassion, where I am now.

I read, digest, write in my journal, review, write. It takes time, but it's how I learn best. There is a lot to take in, but it's all so relevant, and I feel very comfortable with Janina's style of writing.
Sometimes I wonder whether she is a survivor herself, as she refers to "us" and "we" much of the time.

I think a lot of people here will relate to this feeling she states: "I don't know myself, but one thing is clear: I don't like myself."

This was me for most of my life, I hated myself at a visceral level, until I found out that I was suffering from 'PTSD.' Then I began to realise that my experiences weren't normal; they were abuse etc, and that helped me to have a little compassion for myself. But I still didn't have any external validation for years to come.

Others may relate to this statement also:

'The ability to be compassionate or comforting or curious with others, which comes so easily to many trauma survivors, is not matched by the ability to offer themselves the same kindness. What it took to survive has created a bind. It was adaptive "then" to avoid comfort and self-compassion, to shame and self-judge before attachment figures could find them lacking, but now it has come to feel believable that others deserve or belong or are worth more - while, at the same time, it feels that these "others" are not to be trusted; they are dangerous and uncaring.'

I had to behave 'nicely' to my FOO who treated me with anger, hostility and contempt, while hating myself. I wrote a lot about this today in my journal.

Most of my life has a surreal quality to it, like a hideous theatre production, with me staring in a role that was forced upon me, that was NOT me, with no one 'seeing' or 'hearing' me, the REAL me. Confusion overwhelmed the little me (or little me's - the parts) and I became disconnected from myself quite early on. A therapist actually told me I denied myself a few years ago, but I didn't understand what she meant at the time. Now I do understand.... I denied and disowned the parts that drew the most hostility and attacks, and adapted as best I could to the demands of my FOO, especially my F and M. No one was interested in the parts that wanted to speak up and express themselves, so they went undercover, and maybe some of them got lost in all that. By the time I left home, I felt lost. I had given up trying to be me and learned that you've got to keep quiet at all costs, don't have an opinion, agree with the other person in order to be safe. Great start in life, huh! (Not)  :pissed:

Understanding what happened is part of the healing journey, and I feel lucky to have got this far, to be here now and learning so much that can help me rebuild myself and my life.

I have a sense of the names of some of these disowned parts, and I will go back, review and write them down. Then I plan to befriend them, in the way Janina explains.
This, I understand will give me a new inner resilience, making me feel safer within. (pages 77 - 78)

I recommend this book to anyone who feels stuck in their healing, and is looking for a compassionate approach by someone who really understands.

Fen

I am so very glad that this book is helping you, too! I think it was the single most significantly helpful book in my journey to recovery. And I have gotten help from dozens of books!

I had known that I had more fragmentation that what some had tried to convince me was simply facets of personality. So that was validating. I felt comfort in listing the parts and when they were wounded. It was eye-opening to write about them as separate from me and to offer comfort to them. Something shifted in me for the better when I was doing this. I bought little stuffed creatures to represent my parts and this helped me, too.

I hope you continue to share your thoughts about the book and your journey.

Quote from: Fen Starshimmer on April 29, 2018, 10:33:43 PM

Most of my life has a surreal quality to it, like a hideous theatre production, with me staring in a role that was forced upon me, that was NOT me, with no one 'seeing' or 'hearing' me, the REAL me. Confusion overwhelmed the little me (or little me's - the parts) and I became disconnected from myself quite early on. A therapist actually told me I denied myself a few years ago, but I didn't understand what she meant at the time. Now I do understand.... I denied and disowned the parts that drew the most hostility and attacks, and adapted as best I could to the demands of my FOO, especially my F and M. No one was interested in the parts that wanted to speak up and express themselves, so they went undercover, and maybe some of them got lost in all that. By the time I left home, I felt lost. I had given up trying to be me and learned that you've got to keep quiet at all costs, don't have an opinion, agree with the other person in order to be safe. Great start in life, huh! (Not)  :pissed:

Understanding what happened is part of the healing journey, and I feel lucky to have got this far, to be here now and learning so much that can help me rebuild myself and my life.

I have a sense of the names of some of these disowned parts, and I will go back, review and write them down. Then I plan to befriend them, in the way Janina explains.
This, I understand will give me a new inner resilience, making me feel safer within. (pages 77 - 78)

Hi Fen,
I really relate to what you wrote here - I also feel like my life has been some kind of 'novel' and 'not really real' - in some ways.  In many ways.

So glad that you have found the book helpful, and like WhoBuddy says, I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and feelings relating to it, on your journey through healing these fragmented parts.

I have started re-reading it, and so far I've got to p39 - but have stopped for the moment, as I've ended up buying another book (also recommended by WhoBuddy) called "Not Trauma Alone: Therapy for Child Abuse Survivors in Family & Social Context" and so I am going to try to read that one for a while - but I still want to do the exercises in Janina's book - the meditation circle, and continue to do the work on healing the fragmented parts - and I like your summary of that - and I also like WhoBuddy's use of 'plush parts' to represent them.  I am still working out how best to 'depict' and 'connect' with mine. 

Maybe I'll be able to read both books in tandem - i.e. re-read Janina's and be reading the new one too.  I'm also reading one by Torey Hayden called 'The Silent Boy' - so maybe I'm reading too much, but I've always dipped into books - often simultaneously - I used to do that regularly as a child too.  So it's a pattern that I tend to stick to.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm so glad that you are finding the book helpful.

I'll continue to look back at this thread to see if any of us have made further comments, as it's great to have a place we can discuss things.

Hope  :)

Hello WhoBuddy,
I wish everyone one could read this book, not just us who are suffering  or have suffered at the hands of personality disordered or mentally ill care givers, but ordinary people.  So that we could live in a more trauma conscious society. I now accept that these (abusive) caregivers are likely to never understand what they have caused, because they don't perceive themselves as disordered or ill. But at least, we have the chance to discover our true 'selves' now.

Quote from: Whobuddy on May 01, 2018, 01:30:00 AM
I had known that I had more fragmentation that what some had tried to convince me was simply facets of personality. So that was validating. I felt comfort in listing the parts and when they were wounded. It was eye-opening to write about them as separate from me and to offer comfort to them. Something shifted in me for the better when I was doing this. I bought little stuffed creatures to represent my parts and this helped me, too.

This is comforting to hear WhoBuddy. I look forward to doing the same.  Now you mention 'stuffed creatures'... I have begun to wonder whether my two teddy bears (hugged regularly) are actually parts of me. I will find out more when I begin listing the wounded parts.

Hope - I am glad I am not alone in feeling like my childhood was some kind of theatre production. I think this book is so rich with info and insights that I will be dipping into it for a long time to come. I look forward to reading more of your posts on how you work out how to depict and connect with your parts. I think it's fine to have several books on the go at once. I like to dip into others aswell.  My bedside table is a heap of books!  ;D I could spend hours in bed reading if I had the time.....   I haven't heard of 'The Silent Boy' by Torey Hayden. I'm sure you'll let us know if it's one to look into.  :)

I have a long standing affinity with stuffed creatures. They were there for me in childhood when no one else was. They were reliable and never judged me. I am so glad to hear of someone else who gets comfort from stuffed 'families of choice!'  :yes:

Hi Fen Starshimmer & WhoBuddy,
I hope you're both doing ok and it's good to see you here in this thread.

Fen Starshimmer - I agree with you that the book is so rich with info and insights, and I am re-reading it again - as of yesterday - I had mislayed it, but now I've found it again, and I was so pleased.  You sound like me, with a bedside table with a heap of books on it!  'The Silent Boy' was ok - but I didn't relate to it so much in the end.  Although I think it was worth reading - at the same time.  Torey Hayden writes very well and has a lot of experience.

So, I'm re-reading Janina's book - and I'm on p.40 - just wanted to highlight a quote I related to, when she said "Of course you are sensitive to disappointment!  After a childhood of neglect and false promises, who wouldn't be sensitive to disappointment?" - yes, I do relate to this - and it makes me wonder about the false promises as I feel like whilst on the one hand I had assumed my needs were met by my FOO, in reality they neglected so many things - and made me believe a totally false reality - all in order to keep their 'reality' intact. 

p42 "Depression might once have provided a cushion against disappointment and being overwhelmed.  Hypervigilance enables even children to stand guard over themselves.  Numbing and loss of interest allow the individual protection against grief and disappointment: if you don't care, it doesn't matter anymore.  Anger pushes others away before they cause harm or, worse yet, before the survivor develops an attachment to them." 
"From a neurobiologically informed perspective, they are "survival resources", ways that the body and mind adapted for optimal survival in a dangerous world."
"By disowning the trauma, or the anger, or the need for contact with others, we lose or deny important aspects of ourselves.  By over-identifying wiht the trauma-related shame, hopelessness, and fear of being seen, we constrict our lives and make ourselves smaller than we need to be."

I can see that a goal is to "recognize and "befriend" their triggered reactions, rather than react to them with alarm, avoidance, or negative interpretations" - I'm hoping to try to do this more - so making a note about this - which is from p.43.

Hope  :)

p. 44
"Noticing" as in mindful awareness allows the client to achieve "dual awareness", the ability to stay connected to the emotional or somatic experience whilst also observing it from a very slight mindful distance.

"If one part is remembering something alarming or devastating, other parts can offer support, validation, or comfort"

I really like this aspect - it gives me more hope - I'm going to try to develop that mindful awareness more - I can see how this would be helpful.  It is making sense to me - especially now I'm re-reading it, and seem to be 'taking it in' today!!! 

p.45
"When the therapist teaches clients to observe, "I can sense in myself some curiosity about the depressed part's sadness", they are more connected and attuned to their emotions and sensations - the first step towards achieving the ability to have compassion for themselves."

That is helpful too - it makes sense.

Hope  :)

Quote from: Whobuddy on May 03, 2018, 10:22:32 PM
They were there for me in childhood when no one else was. They were reliable and never judged me. I am so glad to hear of someone else who gets comfort from stuffed 'families of choice!'  :yes:

Just skimming through this thread and your words here caught my eye.
For a long time in my healing journey I had 'stuffed families of choice'. A couple of years ago things seemed to change and they're no longer such a healing tool for me. I still have them though.

Hello Hope,

I enjoyed reading your reminders  of some of Janina Fisher's earlier writing in the book. There's so much to learn in every page, and easily forgotten. 

I wish I had known this years ago:

Quotep42 "Depression might once have provided a cushion against disappointment and being overwhelmed.  Hypervigilance enables even children to stand guard over themselves.  Numbing and loss of interest allow the individual protection against grief and disappointment: if you don't care, it doesn't matter anymore.  Anger pushes others away before they cause harm or, worse yet, before the survivor develops an attachment to them." 

"From a neurobiologically informed perspective, they are "survival resources", ways that the body and mind adapted for optimal survival in a dangerous world."
"

In a way it feels like an achievement to be here now, to be able to sit down and calmly read this book, and others like it, digest and learn from their contents. It's an achievement to have made it this far.

I have reached Chapter 7, page 126, with a triggering theme which I am having to go extra slowly with: Working with Suicidal, Self-Destructive, Eating Disordered, and Addicted Parts.
Straightaway, in the opening paragraphs, I am identifying with what is written, as if it is describing me, as my life used to be - and that's quite scary. Thankfully it is 'used to be' as I survived and have been in a long and bumpy recovery. No one else has ever described this set of feelings and behaviours as accurately as Janina. No one has ever understood like she has...  What an amazing book. It almost brings tears to my eyes  :'(  Perhaps I will post some less triggering extracts from this chapter when I have finished it. It's important to understand the whys and hows, to make sense of what happened, and what could happen again, although I think that's unlikely because I am more conscious and knowledgeable now, and have some self-love to protect me.

I hope to see some more of your insights from the book later, and Whobuddy and others.

Hi Fen Starshimmer,
I've only just read this - because I've been away, but it's great that you are relating to Janina's book - I am glad that you've written about your thoughts in reaction to it - as it really is helpful to see what we each write - I think so.  The very fact of being able to talk to each other about our experiences, and share them, it's so meaningful and also very different from having to try to cope with things alone and 'get through things'.


You are sensible to go extra slowly with the chapters that are more triggering for you - I also have found the same thing - with different paragraphs even.

I also feel that Janina really 'gets it' and 'understands' and that she describes this in her writings. 

I am glad that you have a greater level of consciousness now - that you're more knowledageable now, and also that you have some self-love to protect you - those are all such great things, and will be helpful going forward.

I will certainly be continuing to pop back here when I think of things to say - following further insights from the book.  I've not read it for a while now, due to being away, but I know I will be dipping into it many many more times, as it's like a 'key' to me.

Hope  :)