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agreed!!!

hey, chart, i watched some of what he had to say, but i could feel it getting too close to something primal, so i quit.  too much emotional stuff going on this weekend, can't take any more.  however, it makes sense to me that, and i think a lot of us here have an awareness of this already, that what we went thru as infants/children has shaped how we not only see the world today, but also how we see ourselves in that world.  and our emotions are part of that 'seeing', aren't they?  the type of emotions, the intensity, the physical way we express them - i think it's all in there, has all been shaped by what went on w/ us and the others in our lives from birth onward.  possibly before birth as well.

at any rate, good stuff.  thanks for sharing.  love and hugs

that video is brilliant, marcine.  thanks for posting it.  i want to share it w/ my galpal, maybe it'll help her understand this a little more.

hannah1, i am truly sorry you have any bit of self-loathing to deal with.  we are certainly not perfect, but i do not believe any one of us here on this forum is any kind of person to loathe.  loathsome people do not come to places like this, do not allow their vulnerabilities to be seen, do not admit they have issues to deal with.  you are doing what the un-loathsome people do.  i hope you can find that within yourself.  love and hugs

SO, i think toxic shame is so  . ..  toxic that it needs to be whittled away slowly, one chip at a time.  hopefully, if we can recognize that one of those chips is gone, we can celebrate that and know we're truly undoing the invisible cage that keeps us stuck as who we aren't.  small steps my friend.  but i think recognizing it for what it is can be considered a pretty big step nonetheless.

Marcine's post reminded me of something i read a long time ago.  an experiment using fish and an aquarium with a piece of glass separating the two sides.  on one side was a predator fish, on the other side were minnows, its favorite food.  time and again, the predator fish tried to get at the minnows, only to be stopped by the barrier it couldn't really see.  time and again, time after time, until it stopped ramming its nose into the glass.

then, the glass partition was lifted, and the minnows were free to swim everywhere in the tank, all around the predator fish.  by this time, however, the pred. was already convinced that those minnows were out of reach, and eventually died of starvation.

it seems we've had similar experiences.  repeatedly not allowed to be who we are, we believe such a thing is out of reach, even after the people who did that to us are no longer in our lives.  the cage is indeed a figment, but we've been groomed so well to believe it's always real that we stop, believing that's our only option forever.  somehow, some way, we've got to find out how to know it's a figment now, and keep ourselves nourished, going against everything we've been taught.  a huge task, indeed.  little by little, tho . . .

nice notes, hope.

i've heard before about the connection between anger and boundaries - that when a boundary of ours has been crossed, it's natural to feel angry about it.  natural, as in anger is with us from the beginning.  how many times has that anger been stomped down by someone else in order for us to shy away from it later in life!  the idea that we had boundaries, we wanted them respected, they weren't, and we reacted in a way that made someone else feel uncomfortable?  it's on them once again.  just my opinion.  love and hugs

one step at a time . . .

ooops, lost my page.

armee, thanks so much for the phrase 'without disabling' me.  i didn't have those words before, but yes, that's exactly what happens when i have/expel such strong emotions/feelings.  i do become disabled, just never thought of that term before.  it would be nice to find someone who will take that seriously when i tell them about it.  slower/smaller really is better for me. 

hannah1, thank you for that validation.  i do believe it affects all those little goodies we have inside, down to the cellular level.  whew!  that's a lot! 

NK, i agree, now that you mention it, that it is very easy to overlook if we aren't at a funeral, something tangible, that we have losses to grieve.  i like your comparison.  thanks so much for that. 

in a few hours a chat w/ a new T.  i have a good feeling about her.  and next Mon., a whole session w/ another one.  we'll see how it goes, 2 down, 2 out so far.  as my D was reading a list of candidates she'd found, one mentioned she was trained in EMDR Level 1.  i had to immediately nix her off our list.  there are 2 levels of EMDR basic training, (i've gone thru both of them), and for someone w/ complex trauma, i don't think Level 1 is enough experience and knowledge to deal with dissociation, DID, the complexities that come w/ my alexithymia. 

so, i've been culling the herd in this manner as well.  i'm watching out for 'parts' people, too.  maybe someday, but not now.  i think the one on mon. is big on attachment theory, and i can go along w/ that, except for the experience i had w/ the first T i contacted, where he was trying to guess and label my attachment levels.  so, i don't know.  there's so much stuff out there that wasn't around or being looked at when i was in practice, such as c-ptsd itself, i guess i'll have to wait and see.  as always.

hey, hope, i know you take breaks away from here, maybe from all things digital every so often, and it seems that when you return you're always glad you did it.  good for you.  and well done picking and choosing about your books.  if it made you feel lighter, it must've been a good thing,

it seems to me you've become quite adept at knowing what you need and don't need.  excellent work you've done to reach that point.  keep it up, ok?  love and hugs

thank you for stopping by w/ a hug, armee.  it felt good.

PC, thank you for sharing your empathy.  grief is such a big deal, and yes, we'll get thru it together.

TBB, those big hugs are my favorites.  thank you so.  this is a lot.

hope, thank you for that big hug.  i know what's behind it, and i can feel it.

PC, yes, yes we are.  and it's wonderful.  thanks.

hannah1, thanks for the validation.  and all those lovely hugs.

just thinking about grief, and how many of us have so much of it inside that we haven't been able to feel, let go of, or continue to carry around in our bodies, on our shoulders, in our hearts - i wonder how many bodily illnesses might be connected to the amount of grief inside us, wreaking havoc on our innards, on our brains and minds.  if i think of that, i get a sense of urgency about letting it out, getting rid of it.

i mean, grieving means feeling the pain of the loss.  w/o grieving, we are carrying huge amounts of pain inside us.  and pain carries with it it's own type of neg. energy, does it not?  maybe i'm reaching here, but it makes sense to me, that our feelings/emotions are energy-charged.  that can be the only explanation i can think of as to why anticipation of a happy event, like a visit or a gathering or something meaningful can cause me stress.  for many years i've learned that i have to tamp down my feelings of excitement and anticipation or i get sick.  i've even had to cancel a trip to the states when i lived in mexico because of being too sick to travel.

so, to me it doesn't matter what position a feeling takes, so-called pos. or neg., it still has its own energy.  dang, i can't wait to find  a T and be able to start working on this.  i'm too scared now to do it on my own after my last experience.

what an amazingly pos. response you have to the whole credit card thing, PC.  i don't know that i would have come to that in a million years! 

this whole thing of 'allowing' life to happen rather than rushing around trying to make it happen the way we want is very interesting to me.  i've done it myself.  i think it's a control thing - the more we feel in control of a situation, including 'life', the safer we feel.  and, that's all we're looking for, is safety, that feeling that we can just be free to be w/o having to worry about getting killed.  i think the more we become sure of our own confidence to use our tools and skills (such as reframing theft), the less fearful we can become. 

not an easy or quick task, necessarily, but sometimes it just happens.  like someone talking about feeling completely present as a person in the now, or finding that peace of mind for a few minutes.  we are such marvelous creatures. 

Hannah1, that your children can grow and bloom was a breath of fresh air for me.  i'm grateful to you that they have that opportunity, one you didn't get, yet, like frank, you don't run.  you stay there, knowing where you're needed, needing what you're knowing.  well done on ending that cycle of abuse for your kids.  there are too many parents who don't.

and i'm guessing frank says the same to you - thanks for making it thru no matter how hard it was, cuz now you're here w/ me, my own lovely human. love and hugs

i wrote this before your next post came on.  just wanted to let you know i agree about slowing down, stopping at times to let things catch up, and that so many of these masterpieces of our lives, like becoming fully present, or, for me, feeling an emotion, do happen on their own, in their own time.  rushing seems to brick them up somehow, and often doesn't work.

it's ok, as you know, to take your time.  we're still here for you no matter what.  love andhugs

this was so much for me, i need a break.  thanks to all of you.  more later.

i agree w/ NK that the fastest way is thru rather than around.  i know so many people who have problems, and they use various means to avoid looking at them, feeling the feelings, etc. - shopping, cleaning, working, screentime, exercise - you know the list goes on and on.  i myself have a hard time slowing down, being still.  my D and i were talking about meditating the other day, which i've had low to no success with, unless it was a short guided meditation for relaxing.  she went to a zen retreat once to see if she could quiet her mind, it was terrible for her and she felt like a complete failure until the leader told her that if she simply takes the time to stop 'doing' and sit, even if it lasts a few seconds, she has reached her goal.  the goal being stopping doing things, even if for a moment. 

i took that and went with it yesterday.  i was only able to sit still for a minute, maybe 2, but i was able to come away feeling satisfied.  i think we accomplish a lot more than we give ourselves credit for cuz we only see the big picture and think that's the only one that means success.

so, yeah, stopping during our day for even a minute may not be a bad idea.  small steps, right?  love and hugs

chart, i cry all the time, especially about love and children.  the idea of feeling loved is still kind of foreign to me - the lack of feelings thing - and i can't watch shows anymore where children are being hurt, abused, manipulated in bad ways, etc.  or people, for that matter.  there was a show called 'doll house' - joss whedan - and i watched one episode before my nervous system went haywire w/ what i was seeing.  too close to home.

i think most of us have a lot to grieve, but it's painful, which would be my guess as to why we tend to shy away from it. to me, it's very distressing, all those feelings coming out at one time.  it easily gets me sick the next day or three.  so, for that reason, i avoid it whenever possible. 

if the level of EMDR you're doing or the subject you're targeting is too much for your system, you can ask your T to do the eye movements more slowly and with more breaks, or break down whatever you're working on into smaller bits.  i've done that, and it helped not to get overwhelmed at the same time i could let the tears flow.

well done on helping your body re-regulate itself.  keep up the good work!  love and hugs