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Has anyone else dealt with extreme repressed or distorted "fight" instincts and hatred/rage/vindictiveness? How do you cope with this and release these feelings without harm to oneself or others? I do not believe that forgiveness or letting go works because it only feels like more confirmation that they can get away with anything and because their target is me it doesn't matter and they don't have to "pay" at all but instead the responsibility is on me to allow my own pain and be as okay with me being hurt while they walk away unharmed as they are, which is the opposite of healing for me. How do you get closure without a sense of justice or vengeance, or how did you channel a desperation for justice and/or vengeance into something productive or healing?

Hi livingdeadgirl...I actually can relate to these feelings, though I don't share them very often with others. Most people who know me would see me as this 'sweet,' unassuming, somewhat shy person. However, I've always had a strong sense of right and wrong/ just and unjust, so, even at a young age, when I realized what was happening to me was very, very wrong, and very, very unjust, I fought back--not physically (although, I did often engage in physical fights with my narc sister, who was my primary abuser)--but internally and in my attitude and stance toward those who hurt me. For many years, I carried a lot of hatred and resentment toward my narc sister and toward my mother, who enabled her and neglected me. I distanced myself, emotionally, from both of them. I do have fawning tendencies as well, but when it comes to legitimate injustice, I have a strong fight response. Not just for myself, but for others. I don't think this, in and of itself, is wrong, but rather a form of healthy, righteous indignation. So don't feel ashamed that you also carry these feelings.

As to how to get closure, especially when it appears that those who harmed us 'are getting away with it,' I admit that I too struggle with this...still, after so many years. I've forgiven my mother over and over, and confronted her as well, and I forgave my sister for what she did to me when we were younger, thinking, for the longest time, that it was due to childish immaturity---until, recently, when it became clear she never grew up and was still abusing me, I've had to forgive her all over again. But I admit I still carry some anger toward her and my mother. I don't know if the anger will ever completely go away. But, to me, forgiveness doesn't mean never having anger or saying it's ok what they did...absolutely not. It just means I'm letting go of needing to personally take vengeance, recognizing that I harm myself more than them by holding onto too many negative feelings. For me, this letting go actually empowers me and tells me I have the agency and ability to overcome the damage done to me by others. That what they did doesn't define me.

I also believe, despite how it may outwardly appear, that our abusers and those who have hurt us don't ultimately 'get away with it.' I believe in a higher power (i.e., God, but I won't discuss my personal beliefs here) that will ultimately hold everyone accountable. This gives me comfort and helps me let go of vengeful and vindictive feelings.

But I recognize that none of this is easy. It's not easy for me. But just know that you're not alone in your difficult feelings. 

Hi Beijaflor57,

Thanks for responding and sharing something of your own experience.  While I'm glad on the one hand that I'm not the only one who struggles with this (I guess misery loves company) I'm also sorry that you have to struggle with it because I know how difficult it is.  I think you're right that it goes back to pre-verbal stuff.  I know, for example, that I was neglected and abused when I was an infant and a toddler and I know that my mother tried to end her pregnancy and tried to starve herself. She said she drank coffee and smoked cigarettes and (that cigg smoking was a huge part of the child abuse btw).  I know you're right about how this has a silver lining. It definitely does.  We can be the "cycle breakers" we can create a new legacy for our family and that is good. It's not all about us and our short time here..  Check out this article: https://familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/beautiful-scars-what-the-art-of-kintsugi-can-teach-us-about-healing-from-family-scapegoating-abuse-fsa?utm_source=publication-search

There's a lot here to respond to.  Look forward chatting some more

I'm actually a subscriber to that substack and am very familiar with Rebecca Mandeville's work and what she's shared about kintsugi. (Love, love Rebecca Mandeville, btw, and highly recommend her book Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed to anyone who's endured scapegoating abuse in their families. Her book and articles helped open my eyes to the fact that I was the scapegoat in my family.) But thank you for sharing her article, and I hope others will check it out. I love the kintsugi analogy and it gives me hope that something beautiful can still be made from my broken life. As you pointed out, we have the chance to be cycle breakers. Which is a wonderful legacy we can leave behind. While the abuse and neglect we suffered was devastating and undeserved (I'm so sorry you endured what you did as an infant and toddler), we've gained more insight and empathy from our experiences that can enable us to be agents of change for the good of others.

Hi Lonewolf...I can definitely relate to that feeling of a sense of impending doom. I struggle with it often. For me, although I do, thankfully, currently still have a few family members who I know would support me if something should happen to me, two are my parents, who are getting up in age, and most of my siblings have made it clear that I'm pretty much on my own (I'm the scapegoat). After putting myself through post-graduate school, and working my butt off in recent years, I've finally secured a good career as a teacher, but the road hasn't been easy, and I've had a lot of health issues throughout my life that have derailed me a few times in my adulthood and made it difficult/impossible for me to work. (To many of my siblings, though, these health issues are merely an 'excuse' and not legitimate.)

As a single woman who lives alone, I do worry though...I have no one to take care of me should I get ill or injured, and even with my ongoing health issues I sometimes need assistance with simple things like opening bottles or jars. So, yes, it's quite easy for me to catastrophize, especially the older I get. Due to my health struggles, and crazy job history, I don't have a nest egg either, so I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to have to try to work the rest of my life. Health problems or not.

So, yes, I get the impending doom feeling. For me, it also shows up whenever things start to go well in my life. Because, deep down, I don't trust success or happiness. As soon as I start to feel good, or things are going well, a feeling of dread fills me. Which sometimes leads me to sabotage myself.

Hi Papa Coco

I so appreciate your thoughtful response to my questions and the stuff you have shared about your own struggle with this sort of issue and work career.  I found it helpful to read about your technique of challenging beliefs.  It reminds me of the idea of "reframing" It reminds me of the idea that "the mind is the enemy" and in the case of catastrophizing that is definitely true.  The other thing that your post brought up for me is the idea of faith.  Faith is really how I get through these challenging times when I'm struggling.  I have faith in God and that his plans for me are good like it says in the Bible.  And I also have evidence in my life that this is true.  I have ways I am dealing with this struggle but I just wish I could put my energy into something else besides struggling   Thanks for your comment sir!

Faith is what I cling to as well, Lonewolf. It's all I've got! And you're right about the mind being our enemy. It's far easier to give in to fear than to hold on to hope and faith.

But here's what I've learned--am still learning: even though, like you, I wish I didn't have to feel like I'm constantly struggling, and it seems unfair that some of us have been dealt harsher blows in life than others, I'd still rather have my struggles and pain than none at all. For it's in the struggles we have the chance to grow and overcome. All of us on the forum, who, as you said, feel 'damaged' and 'broken,' are far stronger than we give ourselves credit for. We may feel weak...but we've survived. We're here. And that's something. It's an age-old analogy, but the caterpillar doesn't become the butterfly without intense struggle first. In the midst of my struggles, I hang onto that analogy.

Welcome, Puppyma! 

Glad you're here. I've also endured neglect and emotional abuse and have been the primary scapegoat in my family since I was a child. Not an ex-Mormon, but the product of a very strict, fundamentalist Christian home and a cult-like church in my youth. Which always confused me as to how those who call themselves Christians can be so cruel and abusive. So I can relate a bit to what you're going through.

I hope you find this forum to be helpful in your healing journey. 

A warm welcome, Stillost. I think you will find this forum a safe environment to share and be supported. 

Welcome, Lonewolf. I can certainly relate to some of your struggles, especially the alone bit. I'm so sorry for all you've been through, but I'm glad you have your son and your dogs and that you found this forum. I hope you find it helpful in your healing journey.

Welcome, wileycat.    I've been in the identified patient/scapegoat role most of my life so, sadly, I can relate. I finally went low-contact with my family last year. Made a huge difference, and I hope you're able to do the same.

This forum is a safe place, and I hope you find the healing you're looking for.

Livingdeadgirl, I can relate to much of what you shared. You are by no means alone in feeling inferior or 'behind' due to what you've been through.

A quick word about learning languages, though, for which you should not feel stupid at all: the only way to truly learn any language is to immerse yourself in it as much as possible and consistently use it. I say this as someone who's studied several languages and has a B.A. in linguistics (enthusiastic language nerd here!  ), so I have both practical experience and theoretical knowledge about how language acquisition works. I also studied Spanish in high school and at the college level, but was woefully bad at communicating in Spanish with any level of fluency until I worked, for almost four years, at a job with Spanish-speakers. This job required me to communicate in Spanish on a daily basis. Boy did that improve my Spanish quickly! I'm now fairly fluent.

So don't beat yourself up about your Spanish skills. They're there--you just need to put them to use. And give yourself grace for mistakes. Mistakes are the natural part of the process of becoming fluent in a language. I'm now an ESL teacher, and I tell my students never to feel bad about mistakes in their English--mistakes are how we learn!

About the whole dissociation business...I get that too. I didn't realize that was what was going on at the time, but I struggled throughout my college experience with cognitive difficulties due to dissociation and the effects of recent and ongoing traumatic experiences. Unfortunately, the abuse I was being subjected to in my family escalated as I pursued my masters degree in recent years, and it got so bad during my final year that I was forced to take a leave of absence. I simply couldn't focus on my studies. Fortunately, I was finally able to go low-contact and put some physical and emotional distance between me and the abusers, and I graduated this past May with my degree. But it was a degree I had to really grit my teeth to earn. And I still feel sometimes that I didn't retain much of what I learned.

So please have grace and compassion for yourself. You are not alone in these struggles, and I truly hope things get better for you.   

Rainydiary, I struggle with this issue as well.

Even though I understand now why I fawn or people-please, I still feel a lot of shame over it. I'm working on being more assertive, and consistent with boundaries, especially in relation to my job, but it still hurts when others point out this aspect of my behavior.

J i m...you've described me in many ways. I can relate so much to what you shared, and, as a fellow lonely traveler, my heart goes out to you. My primary response to being triggered is isolating myself. If I could describe, in one word, the major theme of my life, it would be loneliness.

I currently live alone, no pets, no roommates, and I'm single. I only have a couple close friends in my life, who don't live near me, and who I only see occasionally. I do have a large family, but I've had to go low-contact with over half of them, due to psychological and emotional abuse (I'm the scapegoat in the family).

I've struggled since childhood with making friends. Huge trust issues (I was bullied, abused, and ostracized, both in, and outside, my family). Like you, I frequently cut ties with people, or ghost them, when they start getting too close to me. I've since discovered this response is associated with disorganized attachment issues.

I don't know what the answer is for those like you and me. It's such a shame that those of us that need connection the most find it so difficult. But this forum is a help, and, like you, I'm grateful for a place like this to vent, if nothing else, when things get hard.

You are definitely not alone in being alone, if that makes sense. 

[You can't start healing from a train crash until after the train stops crashing.]

Beijaflor

Oh my gosh, what you're writing about your sister and your flying monkey siblings and your non-supportive parents could be a chapter right out of the story of my own life. My narcissister is 11 years older than me. She's a monster. I had 4 siblings: I was #4 of 5. I was fifty years old when I'd finally had enough and went full NC with the entire family.

I look back in utter horror at the way my mother made sure I stayed within my narcississter's reign of lies and gossip and meanness. My little sister took her own life because of this monster, and when I became the new youngest of the siblings, I was the one to start getting the anonymous letters in the mail telling me to kill myself.

I'd tried a few times to get Narcissister out of my life, and good old mom would invite me over. I'd get to the house only to discover I'd been lured into an intervention where all my siblings were there, to support this family as mom would basically make me apologize to my narcissister for what SHE had done to ME.  Mom would whine and cry, "I just want all my kids to get along."  Waaaah.  It worked. It kept me in the family until my own suicidal ideation became too close for comfort. I almost went where my little sister went. That's what it took to get me to realize: My FOO or my life. I can only do one. It was do or die. A binary choice. So I chose my life and let the Family of Origin (FOO) go. I haven't spoken to or seen any of them in 14 years. I'm happy with my decision and hope to finish out my life without ever seeing or hearing any of them ever again.

I'm angry about what your parents and flying monkey siblings are doing to you because I still feel the sting of when my family did all the same crapola to me. I didn't deserve it and I believe you don't deserve it either.

Papa Coco, I'm angry on your behalf as well! I'm so, so sorry you had to deal with such vile malevolence in your own family. I can't even begin to imagine how traumatizing all of that was. I'm incredibly glad, though, that you made it out alive, and that you are here now blessing us on the forum with your compassionate presence.  You obviously made the right decision in walking away.

I've struggled with depression and episodes of suicidal ideation much of my life, but the suicidal ideation increased dramatically during the recent years I was living with my parents (due to health and financial reasons) and being subjected to escalating abuse from my narc sister and her flying monkeys. Like you, I finally realized I might end up killing myself if I didn't establish some boundaries and/or move out. I didn't move out till last year, and soon after I did I notified my parents and siblings that I would no longer be attending most family functions, for my own mental and emotional well-being. And I've stuck to that. I haven't found it necessary to go full no-contact yet, as there are family members I still want to have a relationship with, but low-contact has definitely improved my mental and emotional state.

Your mom sounds a lot like mine. She just wants 'everyone to get along.' I've tried explaining to her that 'getting along' is not always possible and the importance of boundaries in relationships, but so far she hasn't really demonstrated that she fully understands these concepts. I'm hoping she eventually does.

I know there are reasons some people can't go full No Contact with their FOOs. So Speaking ONLY FOR MYSELF, I can report that my healing journey went from using expensive therapy and treatments as a way to just survive another day, to using therapy and treatments to actually move forward in my healing. Once the family was out of my life completely, I was able to start benefiting from treatment. I later wrote my own little quip, that goes like this: You can't start healing from a train crash until after the train stops crashing. To go into therapy while still in the abuse is just putting daily bandages on a body and heart that's still being abused.

As I stated above, I can't/don't want to go full no-contact at this point, but I do understand the need for such a radical step for many people. I'm so glad it's helped you in your healing process.

I love your little quip--how true that is!
 
Thank you for all your kind words of support, Papa Coco.

Just a thought here but I know you mentioned you don't have a support system outside of your family but it doesn't sound like you have one inside the family (unless your other siblings are supportive of you). There may be actual in person support groups in your area - maybe not for CPTSD/trauma specifically, but for people on their own for whatever reason.

Sadly, no, I don't have any true allies inside my family. At least not currently. I have 'healthier' family members, and three brothers that I have an ok relationship with, but no one has ever stood up for me. Nor have I had a single apology from the siblings who have been abusive toward me, after I confronted them. Everyone is basically in denial and everyone but me is duped by the narc sister—who is oh so charming and wonderful to those who enable her and put her up on a pedestal (I'm one of the few exceptions in the family). I'm single and live alone, in a town over an hour away from most of the family, which, on the one hand, is good for me, but also incredibly lonely.

I tried looking into therapy last year, but didn't have any success. I live in a small, rural town, where resources are few. 

If you do go ahead, I know with my NM she kept talking about my NB and I as though we had a relationship so I had to keep reinforcing that we didn't and that I did not want to hear about him.  It took some time but eventually she got it as I wouldn't answer emails where she talked about him. When she was still alive I know she would talk to my NB as though he and I were still communicating and he went along with it. Strange but typical of N's, they create their own reality. 

I appreciate your advice and support, Kizzie. You may be right and that being upfront with my mother may be my best option at this point. Unlike your mother, mine is not a narc, thankfully (just highly codependent), so perhaps she'll be more receptive. However, previous conversations with her over sibling issues have often been tense. She just wants 'everyone to get along,' because to her, peace means fawning and enabling others (which is what helped create my narc sister in the first place!  ).

And, yes, it's so true that narcs create their own reality. I'd venture to say that codependents/non-narcs can as well. My parents also seem determined to live in their own fantasy reality.

Thank you for the kind and helpful response, Kizzie. I'm sorry you've had to deal with a similar situation. I'm glad, though, that you've gained some freedom.

Yes, like your parents, I've realized my own parents can't handle the truth and are simply protecting themselves. I guess where my situation might be a bit different is that I've never directly told my parents that I don't have a good relationship with the narc sister. Although I told them I was being bullied and mistreated by several of my siblings (I have seven, and I'm the scapegoat in the family), I never named names. I know, from conversations with my mother, that she has hunches about who some of these siblings are, but, again, I never explicitly told her, or my dad, who they are. And they've made it clear that they don't want to know, nor do they want to know details.

My mom doesn't send me emails, but texts sometimes, and it's in these texts, or even in-person conversations sometimes, that the narc sister comes up. Should I just outright tell my mom I'd prefer not to hear about my sister? Or, despite her and my dad's protests, explicitly tell her, "I don't have a good relationship with this sister"?

I think, if I were living farther away, and actually had a support system outside my family (sadly, right now I'm mostly on my own), I'd be able to handle the situation better. 

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here—maybe I just need to vent, or maybe someone could offer some advice.
 
Over a year ago I went low-contact with some of my family—mainly my narc sister and her flying monkey siblings—and when I did so, I sent letters to most of my siblings, confronting the ones that needed to be confronted, and then explaining I would no longer be attending many family gatherings. I also sent a letter to my parents, explaining a little of what was going on (without naming names), and inviting them to further discussion about the problems in our family. Although my parents reluctantly accepted my decision to go low-contact, they were not open to further discussion. This grieved me, but I realized I couldn't force any discussion on them that they didn't want to have. So I let it go.

However, because my parents are still in the dark about what's really going on, especially in regards to the narc sister, how she has treated me, and the overall damage she's inflicted in our family, I frequently have to stuff down very painful emotions whenever this sister is brought up by my parents in conversations with me—usually glowing ones describing the 'wonderful' things she's doing. It's especially painful when they seem to make these assumptions that this sister and I are on good terms. (This is how much their heads are buried in the sand.) I long to say something, but instead I have to bite my tongue.

I hate 'pretending' like this, but I don't know how else to deal with this situation. It just feels like it's getting harder, as more time passes, to keep up a happy-go-lucky façade—I can be having a perfectly good day, and then my mom brings up something in a text message about the narc sister that sends me on a downward spiral, mentally and emotionally.

I'm currently in one of those downward spirals, after something my mom told me yesterday. I'm beginning to understand how other victims of abuse feel every time their abuser continues to be put on a pedestal and worshipped, while they suffer all alone. It's so horribly unjust.

Great idea for a thread, Chart! And good on you for resuming your biking again. You should be proud of yourself. 

I'm hoping to get back into a regular exercise routine as soon as possible. Life circumstances have gotten in the way over the last few years. I was in great shape a few years ago when I was able to go to the gym regularly. Then post-grad school and a hectic job got in the way.

I also used to be an avid runner once upon a time. I ran long-distance for many years. Running was my passion, as well as a huge endorphin-releaser. What they say about 'runner's high' is true. I found it to be incredibly therapeutic and it boosted my confidence. Sadly, I had to give it up about 8 years ago, when I found out I had bad hips and the ortho doctor told me I had to give up all high-impact exercise if I wanted to slow down the deterioration in my hips. I nearly cried. So I took up other forms of exercise instead, such as biking, walking, and swimming. I also did a lot of strength-training.

I'm a huge advocate for exercise. No matter what you do, or how long, every little bit helps. Especially for those of us with CPTSD. I need to follow my own advice and get back on the wagon.