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Just a little update. I went ahead with my plan and talked to my psych today. He does not think I have cptsd and does think I have bipolar, but he was actually really great about it. I was very impressed. I haven't ever felt comfortable with him the way I did today, because he was very good with how he responded to me. He didn't invalidate me or challenge me. He offered to let me titrate off my medication and see how I do, because how I react will show whether I have bipolar.

It was terrifying to do it and I'm scared about what's going to happen. But I decided to try it, so I will have an answer about that at least. I'm still shaky from it. I was honest about where I was coming from and I even told him some of the stuff I wrote here. I was shocked when he wasn't awful to me about all of this. It made me realize how much I expect to be belittled, put down, hurt, and/or blamed for how I feel. I feel confused that he didn't hurt me, like it's too good to be true. I keep waiting for bad things to happen.

Regardless of the bipolar thing, it doesn't change that I need to deal with the trauma stuff. I just need to get this settled first, so I have an answer for myself and my own peace of mind.

LOL, yes, and continue to pay for it! Which is why I'm (with great dread) getting a new psych. I'm on medication, which complicates things, or I'd just ditch him and get with a therapist. I do need a doc who can prescribe for me or at least be there for me if I go off the meds and that turns out to not be a good idea.

I hear you, and thank you. In a way I'm still mostly concerned about the adult issues, but as I said, I see your point about the early stuff and there is a lot that is coming to mind in a different light. I guess it's like this -

I often joke that my parents were the last two people on earth who needed to get married and have kids. They have always loved me, I do know that, and have been as loyal and caring and nurturing as they could be, and while they've done bad things, mostly I'm just sad for all of us. My dad has ptsd in his own right, alcoholism, mom probably ptsd too and maybe actual bipolar. I see them as injured in their own ways from their own lives and pasts, which I know in great detail because that was one of the things mom did when I was a kid, told me way more than a kid should know about her parents, heh.

Not to make excuses, just say that I grew up knowing I was loved and appreciated. Even though there was bad stuff too and they did foolish and selfish and thoughtless things that hurt me, I know they didn't do it maliciously or out of a lack of caring, and that makes a lot of it easier to bear and probably part of why I downplay it - it just doesn't actively hurt the way the more recent stuff does. (Mom wasn't always this bad, not nearly.) That's part of why I still say I had it way easier than you - I *was* loved deeply, it just didn't stop them from being human and making bad decisions, and I forgive them for that.

Now that's all different from saying I wasn't hurt, I don't deny that I was hurt. Mom wasn't thinking when she locked me in a car on a hot day, she wasn't trying to hurt me but I could have died anyway...  (One of those 10-pound things in a 5-pound bag that came to mind) So I can see how I might carry trauma from that even knowing I was (am) loved.

And believe me, with experience, I have gotten way better at not engaging with mom. We still fight sometimes and I get stuff tossed my way, but I'm aware that what she does and says *is* abusive and just knowing that helps. She has memory problems and doesn't always remember the things she's said to me, later on when I mention it she'll be shocked and apologize. Again, doesn't make it right, doesn't mean I'm not hurt, just means that I know it's not coming from the part of her I think of as "mom."

You're so right about not engaging, after four years of this "dance" I've learned how to do it, mostly - sometimes it's especially hard because I have some very strong opinions of my own and we're basically opposite ends of the spectrum and disagree on everything. That doesn't help things a bit! 

I will say this - after generations of abuse in my family, on both sides, the cycle ends with me and that's what's important. So thank you again. <3

Oh and -

One of the other things I remembered is not actually a memory but something I was told happened, that I was very sick when I was a few years old and nurses had to physically hold me down to draw blood, and I fought very hard. It feels silly saying a lifelong fear could come of something like that, but I guess if anything could do it, that might. 

Rain,

Your response has brought up so many memories, things I've always known happened but never really *thought about* in that light. It shocks me even as I have the urge to back away from this in disbelief that anything was/is wrong.

I'd like to write more, but it's like trying to pour ten pounds of flour into a five-pound bag. Just thinking about all of this is tiring, much less wondering what it's going to be like in trying to deal with it.

Thank you for sharing your own story with me. I would personally go, "Yes, that *IS* trauma!" because I cannot imagine a child being raised like that. I'm sorry you experienced that, and I'm really glad you've found answers now.

Is it okay to go to a therapist and say, here are these things that happened, and I feel like they did things to me, but I need help figuring out what? Instead of walking in and saying "I have symptom x, y, z." I have a hard time figuring out what I'm experiencing, I couldn't even say what my symptoms are, other than trust issues, and depression, and rare anger outbursts against my mother (and only my mother - another reason I disagree with it being bipolar).

I won't throw things at you! Believe me, I'd love to be out on my own again, but I have sworn to stay at least until my grandmother passes. I know that I will continue to endure abuse, but I hope I can at least learn about what I've gone through, identify what problems it's caused, and then address it as best I can.

It does make me angry at my psychiatrist though, because he once told me I need to grow a thicker skin. It's like someone is hitting you in the head with a baseball bat, and getting told you need to put on a helmet. No, the problem is the person holding the bat!

I realize that when I have brought up my mom's behavior, she gets defensive, sarcastic, attacks me, makes it my fault, and often has said I've had a great childhood compared to her, as she was physically abused. So I know it's her voice I'm hearing when I minimize things.

Thank you for your many kindnesses.  I will check out the books, both of them!

Yes, I meant the DSM is flawed, sorry for the confusion!

There is a lot to respond to here and all of it is important, please forgive me if I accidentally leave out something you said as I try to address everything. Thank you all so much for the support. There is so much in my heart right now...I am happy and frightened and tired about what all of this means.

@Rain -

No, Laurel is not my real name, and thank you for the warning. I'm so glad you remind people about the dangers of using real names. Maybe it will save someone pain down the line.

I should have clarified, my grandmother is still alive and I am still, currently, in that situation of living with my mother and helping her care for my grandma. The only way I will get out of it is when she dies. It is a hellish thing - I am trapped for an undetermined amount of time, and I only get my freedom back when I lose her. In many ways she raised me. I am so proud to be her granddaughter, she was/is an incredible woman who has always loved and taken care of me, even when my parents weren't doing so good at that.

As to whether I am numb or feel a range of emotion. I don't know. I guess both, maybe? I don't think I'm one or the other all the time.

I see your point about minimizing early trauma (it feels so weird to use the word trauma, it's such a big word, it feels like claiming I have cancer). I am really surprised you think the early stuff was that bad. I remember being a happy child and a lot of the time I was supported emotionally, physically, financially, by my family, even though they did a lot of things that hurt me, too. I love them very much, even my dad, who isn't in my life. It's confusing. All of this is. I know your childhood was NOT a "walk in the park" though!

I don't think I am currently depressed, and have not experienced an anger outburst like that scary one. I take one medication, a mood stabilizer, and for whatever reason it seems to help.

Yes, I was out on my own from 18-27, and the cult was when I was 18-21.

I feel like I'm demonizing my family when I do love them very much, they're good people who sometimes do bad things, probably because of their own traumatic pasts. I love them and actively forgive them, but it's hard, especially in an ongoing situation where I never know when I am going to get torn up.

@keepfighting -

My jaw dropped when you said that. I've never come across another person who could understand. Thank you for telling me you relate to what I went through. It's hard sometimes to even hang onto my self-declared knowledge that it was a cult, simply because I've never had anyone there to nod along and go, "Yeah, that was not just some weird bunch of people who messed with you, that was a cult!"

I'm saddened that you had to be in that for so long, and as a child too. I would not wish it upon my worst enemy. I wish you and your family so many good and happy things now and in the future.

Thank you for the website. I have never told my psychiatrist (or the therapist I saw briefly) about the cult, so yes, that adds fuel to the fire of bipolar being a misdiagnosis.

With the bipolar diagnosis, I was so confused because it didn't seem to have anything to do with my past. I felt like I described an elephant, and got told it was a crocodile. CPTSD on the other hand, not only describes the issues that ended up with me being diagnosed, but also does so by pulling all of my past into it. I feel like that's what it should be. Now if I can just convince a psychiatrist and therapist of that!

@BeHea1thy -

You are such a dear! Thank you, and bless you, too! I feel safe telling my story to strangers who can't hurt me, LOL, sad probably but also true.

Edited to add:

I have been going through Pete Walker's site and reading the articles, and although there are some things that don't click with me, occasionally I am tangled up in amazement and disbelief and relief at what he describes.

I have to get a new psychiatrist and a therapist to get a proper diagnosis and treatment. Problem is, I'm terrified. Help? Any advice for how to make it through this? How to open up enough to make therapy actually useful?

I don't know how I will ever be successful at therapy because I don't know if I can stand to let anybody near me. I recognize that I have to, but that makes me so angry and afraid. People call a therapy room a "safe space" but to me it feels like a torture chamber, the place in the world I feel the least safe. Words like "attachment" and "theraputic alliance" or the idea of being supported or loved or, God forbid, hugged or touched by a therapist, make my skin crawl.

It makes me want to back into a corner and growl and then bite someone to make them go away! I have an overwhelming sense, just thinking about it, of wanting them to go away and leave me alone even though I will be paying them to be there. I don't even understand why I feel like this. I can't think of any huge thing in my childhood that happened to explain it. I was not physically abused. I have no specific reason for being this afraid. That kind of makes me feel even worse.

I feel so bad for whatever people I end up working with because I don't even know them, but I absolutely hate them right now, LOL. I feel safer pouring my heart out to anonymous strangers on the internet because you guys have no control over me, you can't hurt me.
 

[(TRIGGER WARNING for this one)]

Thank you so much, I really need to hear these things. I'm so thankful to have found this board, and to the couple of online friends who have also supported me elsewhere in this.

Yes, I do know cptsd is not included in the DSM, and that the DSM is a hot topic in some circles - at the very least I think most people will agree it is flawed. I'm not sure how that will play into my attempts at a re-diagnosis.

I will definitely look into getting that book as soon as I can. Thank you!


Since there is no need to downplay anything (thanks, BeHea1thy!) I will go ahead and share my story. I think it will help provide more of a snapshot of where I'm coming from. I am also writing all this out so I can give it to whatever doctor I end up working with. I don't think I could get all of this out clearly and concisely in the space of an intake interview! But it matters so much more than those ridiculous and sterile questionnaires they have to follow.

Although I had some experiences in childhood and my teen years that could be considered traumatic, the specific instances that I would consider the biggest offenders in potential cptsd happened in my adulthood. And they are, um, perhaps not what I suppose you would consider among the more frequently seen issues relating to cptsd, and therefore it's harder for me to figure it out.


Please beware - this is very long and includes some things that are probably upsetting, so I will try to mark the possible triggers.


The short version is:

• I was in a cult for three years when I was in my early 20s.
• I was living in New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina happened.
• For the last four years I have been a secondary caregiver for my elderly, bedridden grandmother who requires constant care and has severe dementia; and am living with her, and with my mother (the primary caregiver) whom I love dearly but who has emotional/mental issues herself and at times is horribly emotionally and verbally abusive.
• I have a job that sometimes brings me into contact with death and violence.

The "lesser" issues that maybe don't fit with cptsd as I understand it: (TRIGGER WARNING for this one)

• My parents divorced when I was young, and fought over me and through me.
• I was badly bullied as a child.
• My father's dating life and girlfriends took priority over me.
• My father gave me a suicide note and disappeared for three days, then never spoke of it again. The next year, he disappeared for three months; when he reappeared, I was so hurt and angry I threw him out of my life and to this day have not reconciled with him.
• My mother was very sick for several years when I was young, and she had to stay in bed a lot of the time. I grew up learning to be very self-sufficient. (Thank God for my grandmama, who lived with us and looked after me.)
• We had a bit of a hoarding situation going on when I was growing up, that has been resolved for a number of years now.

(END TRIGGER WARNING)



The longer version of the big stuff:

1. The cult.

I was lonely my first year of college, and 9/11 happened just two weeks after I started my freshman year, so I was very vulnerable. I made some online friends I really looked up to as mentors. Those friends got me involved in a cult. Much of it took place online, but there were so many mind games, manipulation, threats, and ways it bled into real life, including traveling to meet other cult members, getting things in the mail and phone calls from "supernatural beings."

There is too much to discuss, but the related highlights are that they created in me beliefs that: I was being stalked by supernatural beings, that at any time I could be killed or driven mad by those beings, that they could read my mind, that I was being harmed and my memory of it erased, I was being sent dreams by them, and so much more. My friends who were the ringleaders concocted stories and "proof" that they were being visited and harmed by these "beings," so not only did I worry about myself, I was presented with what I believed was physical evidence that my friends' lives were in danger.

There were many, many ways they did things online and in real life to make me have and then support the cult's false beliefs. I shaped my life around this cult for my time in college. In the end, it turned out my closest mentor was the ringleader. When I got out of the cult, it was like losing my entire family, all my friends, my support system. I confronted them all with evidence against the false beliefs, and of course they turned on me, because they could not afford to have me upset their control of the group. Overnight I went from a part of something bigger, better, more meaningful, more *special* than most people ever knew - to having no one and having to rethink my entire worldview. I could hardly get out of bed. It ruined my first year of graduate school. I was used, manipulated, lied to, betrayed by people I loved like family. I was so open and so young and so lonely.

It took me years to even go, "Hey, that thing, that was probably a cult." It's not like I ever wanted to get into a cult - they don't exactly set up recruitment tables in the quad during Rush Week! You don't ever get a welcome packet that says "Welcome to the club, by the way, we're a cult." I've had to figure it all out on my own. I have learned a lot about cult structure in the years since, and now I have a very good insight into what happened, and how it happened, and how I became a victim who chose to stay involved with these people for three years. I was lonely and they were smart, articulate, interesting people who saw a chance to get me, and took it. It was insidious, and the sickest thing I have ever seen in my entire life.


2. Hurricane Katrina.
After the cult. I was in graduate school in New Orleans when Katrina hit. I loved that city, worked really hard to get good grades to be accepted to grad school (and ruined it by poor performance because of the fallout of leaving the cult). I was NOT there when the storm hit. As it just so happened, I had flown out of state for a birthday party that weekend. I watched the whole thing on television, and went back and cleaned out my apartment a month later, and then sat on a couch for four months trying to figure out where to go from there. I was able to get myself together, make a fresh start, and finish my degree elsewhere.


3. Caregiving.
Four years ago I moved home to be a caregiver and watch my grandmother suffer, lose her memory and faculties, slowly fade away and die, while feeling trapped into staying because I certainly can't leave her and my mother alone when they need me. And periodically having horrible, horrible fights and enduring verbal and emotional abuse from my mother, who herself has mental/emotional scars (and I have come to feel a great deal of sympathy for her). I promised that I will not leave until grandmama passes, but after that, I fear I will end up stuck looking after my mother and unable to live an adult life away from her. I am 31, I want to be free and have a life of my own, travel and progress in my career, try new things, without having to wonder what I am walking into when I come home at night. And I am left thinking I will have to choose between family loyalty, or what I want to do with my life, and that tears me apart.


4. My job.
I'm a journalist. A lot of it is innocuous stuff, but I never know when I am going to be called out for things like the below.

(TRIGGER WARNING)

I'm out on the scene of fatal car wrecks where they're cutting bodies out of twisted wreckage and the family shows up and is screaming and crying. I'm on the shore of a lake where divers are pulling a drowned man out, and starting CPR. I'm at the scene of a double murder, talking to the victims' family while the crime scene cleaners are scrubbing blood off the side of the house. I'm in the bedroom of a murdered teenager, holding his mother while she cries. I see a lot of death and pain and I never know when I'm going to be called out to write about it.

(END TRIGGER WARNING)


- - -

These experiences did something to me. I just don't know what. All I know is they did something to me, and I feel like they broke something in me in ways I don't understand. I feel like I want to tell all of this to someone, and have them point at me and go "That thing you just said? It did this, this, and this to you. It's called _____ and here's something we can do to address these problems." Somehow I feel like it won't be that easy!

Because I physically struggle to leave the above unqualified - I get along fine. I've never (TRIGGER WARNING) ... self-harmed, attempted suicide, been hospitalized ... (END TRIGGER WARNING)  I work full-time, I'm a leader in my community, I have many hobbies and interests and I'm able to be happy and fulfilled. People probably don't even have a clue about any of this having happened to me.

I should probably feel more upset by all of this, triggered or something by having written it all out, but I'm not. It's more like "Yeah, that happened! I can't believe it either! What in the world?" I don't have any problem discussing it, which is kind of weird actually, now that I think about it?

I'm actually wondering if anyone is going to accuse me of making this up because it sounds so bizarre! Goodness knows, I wish! What is my life, I don't even know, is it any wonder I'm often left waiting for everything to go horribly wrong?


I am here to figure this out, so I welcome any and all input. Congrats to you if you made it all the way through that novel! 

Hello everyone,

I'm Laurel. I've joined because I've only recently learned about cptsd and I'm questioning whether I may have it.

I was diagnosed with mild bipolar disorder over a year ago after experiencing months of depression and a single anger outburst, but I have never been 100% certain on that diagnosis as I don't fit a lot of the DSM criteria. A few folks I know who have struggled with mental distress issues were discussing cptsd and something just clicked. I never thought anything I went through was "bad enough" to be ptsd. I have been through an awful lot, including threat of physical harm, but I've never actually been physically harmed. I have a tendency to downplay things, and also just am not very good at realizing that some things I experience are harmful and not something everyone experiences. And I'm super good at dealing with things and staying grounded in everyday life, so I have a very successful career and to all outward appearances I have it all figured out, LOL.

The most honest thing I have ever said to a psych professional was that I'm scared a lot. I'm especially terrified of medical professionals, they're so intimidating, and I hate my psychiatrist and am scared of him. I get tense days before appointments and my stomach is in knots just sitting in his waiting room. I had to drive by the office today and was so stressed just by being in the vicinity. I'm like that with a lot of stuff, but I'm able to make myself do it anyway. - But that's why I haven't explored this with him, I say whatever I have to say to make him throw my prescription at me and otherwise leave me alone. I loathe intake interviews, but I don't think I will feel satisfied until I figure out whether I do have bipolar or if it's something else like cptsd.So I'm looking for a new psychiatrist to see if I can take another shot at figuring this out.

In the meantime I'm researching and talking to others to see if my experiences really do seem like cptsd. So I guess I'm here because I need some support and to learn more about cptsd, and talk with others about their experiences to try and put this in perspective, because I want to be able to go in and tell the new doctor, "This is what I think is wrong, here's why, now what do you think?" But even writing this I'm thinking, "You're being ridiculous, of course you don't have any sort of ptsd, stop being overdramatic."

Thanks and I appreciate any input. I'll be posting more about my situation to try and get some thoughts and clarification, but for now, just know that I'm scared and feeling distrustful of myself and medical professionals to the point I feel safer talking to anonymous folks on the internet about it, LOL.

(I promise I'm actually an upbeat and funny person when I'm not stressing about having to do this!  )