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For the first time, I myself, body and MIND AND SPIRIT, were part of the movie.  My eyes are in the center of the action.  *I* am the center of the action.  My being is the the center of my world (not everyone else, like you listed in the causes).  This has been truly HUGE for me, I thank you for this post and I will be rereading it a lot.

Thank you so much for sharing!  Yay!  Beautiful.  Another victory; another one of us has landed in the center of their own being 

Hi BH, There is a legal psychoactives herb shop where I live.  I'll ask them about where non-local folks can get it.  Given what I've experienced lately, the power of a simple herb to make all the pieces come together again, I want you to have a good option should you choose to pursue it.   

Hey Rrecovery,

I'm intrigued by Kanna. Never heard of it before your post. Just curious about the availability. Are you in the US? Europe? Canada? I'm starting a list of things for my semi-annual MD visit. Most of the pharmaceuticals today either leave me horizontal or don't affect me much at all. I've already been through most of the SSRI's on the market.

I went through all the SSRIs and SNRIs they all gave me IBS and many a restlessness I didn't appreciate.  I'm in the US.  I have read that Kanna is legal worldwide; it is not a hallucinogen even at high levels so hopefully it will remain legal.  I only need the tiniest dose, and not even everyday.  It's inexpensive.   

Hi Little Fish and Welcome    My heart goes out to you. You have suffered so much and have been invalidated so much.  I'm glad you are breaking free from the abuse and recovering.  You will find this to be a place of understanding and support.  Glad you're here 

Hi M and Welcome    Thank you for sharing your story.  I'm glad you are breaking free from that awful prison.  I'm glad you found your way here, where you will be understood and supported. 

Hi Kizzie, I am still doing extremely well on the Kanna.  It definitely helps me to put my past in perspective on an emotional level.  I forgave my family and set appropriate boundaries with them many years ago, but because I was still feeling fairly miserable despite 30 years of therapy, I couldn't let go of the past - it was ever present because I was STILL miserable and who knew whether I would ever feel okay.  Now I feel okay, and the past is the past because the present feels good and interesting and pregnant with possibilities.

I'm also no longer feeling lonely.  I feel so content in my own skin and in my own company that I don't feel a burning need for more closeness, although I'm still open to it.  The friendships I have feel more meaningful to me; I do not feel disconnected from others, I don't feel like I don't matter - I feel loved and appreciated and wanted.

Amazing what a little extra serotonin can do to a person's experience of life. 

The suggestion is that Kanna should not be taken with other SSRIs, but I imagine it's to prevent the possibility of serotonin syndrome.  I'm no psychiatrist, but if I were in your position I would probably try adding a little Kanna, and if it seems to help, you could slowly come off Celexa while increasing the Kanna.  I believe our bodies are much more equipped to process things of the earth than they are pharmaceuticals.  FWIW the SSRIs I was on had more side effects and less positive action than the Kanna.

I know you have also done a lot of work and are a very wise person, you deserve to feel the fruit of your efforts too.   

Boatsetsailrose Happy Birthday    I'm glad you're here. 

WF - thanks    Has knowing your family history been helpful in overcoming Cptsd?

Hi  Ladybug.  What you said about "fatigue on this level" I so understand.  I want to clarify that therapy has been a HUGE part of my recovery, and I believe that most people can recovery fully this way.  I am unusual in that I do have an unremitting biologically depressed brain chemistry that needs the extra help of an SSRI.

Hi  Boatsetsailrose, I'm glad you don't feel this way anymore.  I'm glad you've found relief through your recovery program.  Spirituality is very important to me too  I had practiced so many positive habits for so long, but could never feel the fruit of those practices, until now.  It's a very wonderful time for me 

This thread has been a blessing!  Thank you to everyone who has read it.  My wish and prayer is that we all might find our way to a true enjoyment of life 

I just have to share my experience with Kanna - a legal herb from Africa.  It has the longest recorded history of any other psychoactive herb.  It is considered an SSRI.  It has no recorded side effects.  There are no reports of withdrawal symptoms.  I have already cut my dose in half with no symptoms.  Kanna can be smoked (effects will be instantaneous), snorted (burns nose), or taken sublingually (this is how I take it).  I use a very small pinch of it under the tongue for about 15 minutes, I do not swallow my saliva, then I spit it out and rinse my mouth.  Things taken sublingually do not go through the g.i. tract.  Pharmaceutical antidepressants caused me to have IBS for 25 years!  I have no side-effects what-so-ever.  Kanna does not cause sexual side-effects either.

On the Kanna I believe I feel like normal (non-depressed) people.  I believe this based on listening to people.  I am a very spiritual person, but unmedicated I never FEEL the love, peace and joy that most people with my outlook and habits report feeling, e.g. I can "know" I have a lot to be grateful for, but I cannot FEEL gratitude.  Now that my serotonin levels are adequate, my 30 years of recovery work is coming to fruition in an experiential way - amazing!  I have created a good life during those 30 years, but I still could not enjoy it.  Now I can!

Since starting the Kanna I've come off of: 5-HTP, DHEA, Passion Flower, and Lemon Balm that I used to treat the depression and the insomnia it creates.  I'm also going to come off of Theanine and Doxilamine Succanate (an antihistamine used for sleep).  When I was on pharmaceutical anti-depressants I didn't need anything else for sleep, but I've been on a buttload of stuff these last 3 years since my g.i. tract couldn't handle the anti-depressants anymore.

I have been thinking about the chicken and the egg.  Why were my parents so troubled?  And their parents?  Could the genesis be untreated low-level depression that made life little more than a chore?  Can this kind of suffering create personality disorders?  I give myself a lot of credit for living such a functional life and helping/contributing to the world in a positive way even though I felt pretty miserable.  That's what 30 years of therapy had bought me.  Now I get the whole reward - enjoying life, FEELING happiness, peace, joy, gratitude, contentment, good-will.  WOW!!!

I just have to share my experience with Kanna - a legal herb from Africa.  It has the longest recorded history of any other psychoactive herb.  It is considered an SSRI.  It has no recorded side effects.  There are no reports of withdrawal symptoms.  I have already cut my dose in half with no symptoms.  Kanna can be smoked (effects will be instantaneous), snorted (burns nose), or taken sublingually (this is how I take it).  I use a very small pinch of it under the tongue for about 15 minutes, I do not swallow my saliva, then I spit it out and rinse my mouth.  Things taken sublingually do not go through the g.i. tract.  Pharmaceutical antidepressants caused me to have IBS for 25 years!  I have no side-effects what-so-ever.  Kanna does not cause sexual side-effects either.

On the Kanna I believe I feel like normal (non-depressed) people.  I believe this based on listening to people.  I am a very spiritual person, but unmedicated I never FEEL the love, peace and joy that most people with my outlook and habits report feeling, e.g. I can "know" I have a lot to be grateful for, but I cannot FEEL gratitude.  Now that my serotonin levels are adequate, my 30 years of recovery work is coming to fruition in an experiential way - amazing!  I have created a good life during those 30 years, but I still could not enjoy it.  Now I can!

Since starting the Kanna I've come off of: 5-HTP, DHEA, Passion Flower, and Lemon Balm that I used to treat the depression and the insomnia it creates.  I'm also going to come off of Theanine and Doxilamine Succanate (an antihistamine used for sleep).  When I was on pharmaceutical anti-depressants I didn't need anything else for sleep, but I've been on a buttload of stuff these last 3 years since my g.i. tract couldn't handle the anti-depressants anymore.

I have been thinking about the chicken and the egg.  Why were my parents so troubled?  And their parents?  Could the genesis be untreated low-level depression that made life little more than a chore?  Can this kind of suffering create personality disorders?  I give myself a lot of credit for living such a functional life and helping/contributing to the world in a positive way even though I felt pretty miserable.  That's what 30 years of therapy had bought me.  Now I get the whole reward - enjoying life, FEELING happiness, peace, joy, gratitude, contentment, good-will.  WOW!!!

Hi Kizzie, I am feeling better about my knees, like I KNOW that I will return to my sport eventually. I no longer think that at my age (56) it's probably unlikely.  But the biggest change is that I enjoy living, just day-to-day living.  So if I don't return to my sport, there's still so much I enjoy, even every day mundane chores have a pleasant quality.

I believe I'm feeling like normal (non-depressed) people.  I believe this based on listening to people.  I am a very spiritual person, but unmedicated I never FEEL the love, peace and joy that most people with my outlook and habits report feeling, e.g. I can "know" I have a lot to be grateful for, but I cannot FEEL gratitude.  Now that my serotonin levels are adequate, my 30 years of recovery work is coming to fruition in an experiential way - amazing!  I have created a good life during those 30 years, but I still could not enjoy it.  Now I can!

Since starting the Kanna I've come off of: 5-HTP, DHEA, Passion Flower, and Lemon Balm that I used to treat the depression and the insomnia it creates.  I'm also going to come off of Theanine and Doxilamine Succanate (an antihistamine used for sleep).  When I was on pharmaceutical anti-depressants I didn't need anything else for sleep, but I've been on a buttload of stuff these last 3 years since my g.i. tract couldn't handle the anti-depressants anymore.

I have been thinking about the chicken and the egg.  Why were my parents so troubled?  And their parents?  Could the genesis be untreated low-level depression that made life little more than a chore?  Can this kind of suffering create personality disorders?  I give myself a lot of credit for living such a functional life, and helping/contributing to the world in a positive way even though I felt pretty miserable.  That's what 30 years of therapy had bought me.  Now I get the whole reward - enjoying life, FEELING happiness, peace, joy, gratitude, contentment, good-will.  WOW!!!

Thank you for your support and interest 

I'm actually feeling a will to live!  It feels bizarre to say this.  Last week I was hitting bottom with all of this so I went to a shop that sells legal psychoactive herbs.  They told me to get off the 5-HTP because it's not meant for long-term use, and try Kanna (an herb from Africa). You can smoke it, snort it, or use it sublingually.  You only use a pinch of it.  I smoked a pinch of it just for the heck of it and BAM, instantly not-depressed, and it lasted for about 4 hours.  Since then I've been using it sublingually twice a day and have come alive.  It doesn't make you "high" as in altered or incapacitated in any way. It just makes me not depressed.  OMG!  It is considered an SSRI.  I can't take pharmaceutical SSRIs because they give me terrible IBS.  The sublingual method bypasses the g.i. tract.  Both of my parents had depression and never got it treated.  I definitely may be one of those people who have a biological depression no-matter-what, unless it can be chemically treated.  I hope and pray this won't bother my g.i. tract (it shouldn't).  I'm just coming to life!  I enjoy being alive!  There are things I WANT to do!

Hi Jdog, I hear the pain you are in and my heart goes out to you.  I can relate to guilt over doing the best I can at the time for someone I love who suffered.  I know how painful and unresolved that can feel.  What helped me was to write letters to them and talk to them in a prayer-like way.  I received insight and "answers" that have helped.

Depression is so painful, I hope yours resolves soon.  I've been in a depression now for 2 years and just came out of it last week (hopefully for good).  I'd been working so hard in therapy but it wouldn't budge.  I started using Kanna (an herb from Africa), a pinch under the tongue twice a day.  It is very robust!  The effects are felt almost immediately.  I'd forgotten what it felt like to not be depressed.  I feel like I'm living again.  You will continue to be in my heart, thoughts, and prayers 

Your T sounds excellent; well done on choosing her.  A good therapist is such an invaluable resource and facilitator of recovery.  I'm so happy for you 

WF thank you!  It was helpful to allow myself to hit bottom with my feelings.  And it's especially wonderful to share those feelings here and to receive such nurturing responses.  I'm feeling better.  I've decided to install a stair lift in my townhouse so I don't have to feel terrified/dread of both knees going out at the same time.  My place has a very bi-level layout and I have to negotiate stairs about 20 times a day.  I appreciate your support