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I think some people may be making assumptions which I did not intend.

My intent is structured, co-hosted, anonymous, weekly video/voice-only support group meetings. A free-for-all interactive "chat room" is too chaotic, and gets over-run by those who can shout the loudest.

I'm thinking about how 12-step programs have traditions and principles to guide them when they support each other. That's the sort of direction I would want to go in. Tradition 12 of 12-step programs usually goes something like this: Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities. I also like the "no-crosstalk" format used in those meetings. This means that we don't make recommendations, suggestions, comments on other people's shares. We don't give or ask for advice, saving that for after-meeting if people can hang around. We do respond compassionately and supportively when someone shares something which moves us. A huge part of human communication is non-verbal. In a meeting where we can see each other, facial expressions and body language can be very supportive without being intrusive.

I took a look around the net and found these three websites which support adults who have survived childhood abuse. At least one of them already appears to have Zoom meetings:

1) "HAVOCA is run by survivors for adult survivors of child abuse. We provide support, friendship and advice for any adult whose life has been affected by childhood abuse."

2) "We have a single purpose at NAASCA, to address issues related to childhood abuse and trauma including sexual assault, violent or physical abuse, emotional traumas and neglect"
NAASCA's daytime Recovery Meetings, now held Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays, are coming to you virtually on ZOOM

3) "Adult Survivors of Child Abuse (ASCA SM) is an international self-help support group program designed specifically for adult survivors of neglect, physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse."
Resources for starting meetings: http://www.ascasupport.org/meetings.php

There might be more out there.
______________

So maybe what I'm looking for already exists. If I do start a meeting, I would want a co-host to help me keep on eye on the clock so everyone can take a turn sharing, to make sure I'm not going 'off-course,' and be able to step in and help me if necessary.

thank you,
Chris 

Maybe a Video meeting would be something we could try? I know how to host Zoom meetings. People who don't want to be seen can opt-out of including their Video. There are things which can be done to prevent disruptions. E.g. prevent screen sharing, use a waiting room and a password, prevent private chats, and so forth.

I would like to join a live conversation support group, either face-to-face, or using voice conference call (doesn't need to be video conference call)

I live in the greater Philadelphia area. If there is already a F2F support group in this area for CPTSD, please reply here, or if you feel more comfortable about it, send me a private message.

If there's no F2F in my geographical area, I'd like to participate in regular voice meetings - either using phone or using the internet (VOIP)

If neither of those is possible, can someone point me towards resources to help me figure out how to start this kind of support group? What things to set from the beginning, what things to leave flexible until the group gels a bit, how to get it off the ground, what pitfalls to avoid, etc?

Thank you!
"Chris"

Thank you, Kizzie 

Great thread! I'm going to have to read through it more thoroughly, when I have more time, to gather a list of what I think will be most helpful for me.

I am currently reading Cptsd from surviving to thriving by Walker. I like most of this book; it's really helping me understand a lot of the connections between my childhood and how I am as an adult.

I don't agree with everything he says in the book, however. Some of it seems off in a way I can't describe yet.

Also, I need more specific step by step suggestions about the grieving process. So far, I get that he's telling me to get angry and to cry. That's not specific enough. I need diagrams, worksheets, recipes, etc. Also, I need more info about somatic healing. I have a copy of The Body Keeps the Score but found it intimidating in length and vocabulary. I don't want to start that one until I almost done with Walker's.

I'm also trying to read Chapters 5 and 6 of Trauma and Recovery by Herman. It is slow going because I feel myself getting very anxious reading the first person descriptions of abused adult children's stories. I will take it as slow as I need to and skip parts if I need to. I want to read these chapters because this is a foundational work in this area, and she gives a definition of cptsd. I want some of her background that leads up to her definition.

Thank you for this thread. It's a great resource.   

-Chris

I say all this, but inside the whirlwind is raging. I say to myself: "You made a decision to stay with T. You decided that was the best thing for yourself. You are working, even though sometimes incredibly difficult, to pay to stay with T." Why can't I just say that and move on? Why is this making me crazy?

You are not crazy or stupid.

I can totally relate to being triggered by these kinds of conversations. Sometimes my "freeze" side comes out before I can even pick up the phone, and the sense of dread wipes out all ability to make important calls.

Maybe this whirlwind you are feeling is an emotional flashback?

(Hugs)

Hi Kati, welcome!

Glad you found this forum!

I relate to what you said about how learning about cptsd feels like puzzle pieces coming together to form a larger picture that makes a lot more sense than before.

-"Chris"

Hi Bach,

Good noticing! I don't think meditation is an unusual trigger for those with cptsd.

Yesterday I came across this book in the resources section,
Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness by David Treleaven.

I haven't read the book, but just the existence of it, and its description, helps me realize that I'm not alone when it comes to not being as calm and relaxed as one might expect with meditation practices.

Here is a quote from the book's description:

Drawing on a decade of research and clinical experience, psychotherapist and educator David Treleaven shows that mindfulness meditation—practiced without an awareness of trauma—can exacerbate symptoms of traumatic stress. Instructed to pay close, sustained attention to their inner world, survivors can experience flashbacks, dissociation, and even retraumatization.

If this can happen during mindfulness practices, then I doubt it's weird that during your practice, when you become more consciously aware that it feels right and is working well, that is when distracting and catastrophizing thoughts come up.

-"Chris"

1. Electricity - We couldn't communicate like this without it

2. Physical Therapists - who provided two months of PT for lumbar radiculopathy which is now much better

3. Evergreens - so that winter won't be so dreary

4. Musicians and storytellers - who capture and preserve the wonder and awe of our inner and outer worlds

I understand your concerns Chris. I will look into the questions you have posed. It will be next week or later though as I just moved and am knee neck deep in all that entails.   

You may wish to hold off making posts until then. Or you can always delete your posts if you're not satisfied with the terms I come up with (although as I mentioned the latter is not ideal because it leaves gaps).

Kizzie,
Thank you for looking into this. I'll understand if it takes a while to update.

I believe, although I'm not certain, that my post on 2019-10-27, 13:57:07 is probably a result of my "Outer Critic" voice spinning out of control.   

I'm learning that my Outer Critic voice persuades me that I need protection when I'm getting too close to forming new, potentially healthy, relationships. Maybe my discovering this forum and participating here was too triggering, getting too close to other people I don't know. The whole "I can't trust these people" catastrophizing process cranks up. Then I write a post like the one above which is probably way overboard.

I'm kind of stubborn, and now that I know I have an Outer Critic voice undermining my attempts at forming closer, healthier relationships, I'm not going to let it scare me away from other people. I also need to learn how to stop my Outer Critic from scaring other people away from me.

-Chris336

["Outer Critic."]

Three Roses,

Thank you so much for the feedback and the research. It's extremely helpful to have some resources about these topics.

Because I'd been diagnosed with a mood disorder back in the mid-1990's, I did quite a lot of Cognitive Behavioral work using Dr. Burns' book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy. I also needed a lot of help from my therapist. I learned how to talk back to that inner voice that puts me down with all sorts of irrational nonsense, pull myself out of putting myself down so much, and pull myself out of deep depressions. I was even able to go back to work for over a dozen years. I had a lot of negative thinking which was destroying my ego and self-esteem.

The outer critic is our inner, fault-finding voice which focuses on the perceived shortcomings of others.

Yes, you are absolutely correct!  I'm now learning more about this inner voice. A little less than two weeks ago, I bought Pete Walker's book, Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving. It wasn't until I found this forum and started reading his book that I'd even heard the term "Outer Critic." I've realized why I'm not making the progress I've needed in therapy. My therapist is an expert on the voice of "inner critic" and eating disorders. But I don't recall "outer critic" ever coming up in therapy.

I find that I scare myself away from forming relationships and reaching out to people because I hear myself saying how unsafe they are. There's a strong voice in my head telling me that

• people can't be trusted,
• they will betray me,
• they will let me down,
• they will take advantage of me,
• they won't have my back,
• if I want something done right I have to do it myself,
• and  

In my marriage, my Outer Critic comes out sometimes, as does my partner's, when we have a fight. Or maybe we have a fight because one of our Other Critic voices has gained control of one or both of us!  We're in couple's counseling and we're developing tools to communicate better, and ways to treat each other with more respect, kindness, and compassion. It's a challenge, but we keep working at it. We love each other and neither one of us wants to leave the relationship.

By the time my Outer Critic is done with me, I'm too scared to call anyone, or reach out to people in other ways. I have to learn how to counteract the Outer Critic. I'm just reaching the part of Chapter 10. Something about angering grieving? I don't quite understand yet, but I will keep at it until I do.

I am hoping I can develop all the tools I need to keep both my inner critic and my outer critic in check, so that I can be in healthy, nurturing relationships with other people, and so I can find ways to work my way out of "emotional flashbacks" when either of these voices gets rolling along.

I am in a 12-step recovery program. The other night my Outer Critic was running circles around me in my head during meeting. The meeting topic was "Service." I'm working on Step 4 in recovery, the one about making a searching and fearless inventory of myself. It's intimidating. So while I was sharing, I suddenly realized that the recovery group I'm in directly contradicts the voice of the Outer Critic and proves to me that this voice is lying. The members of the group I'm in have had my back for over a year as I've been recovering from addiction. They are worthy of my trust, they don't betray me, they perform selfless, generous Service for our fellowship. I have no idea how the meeting leader had come up with "Service" as the topic for that night's meeting, but thinking about the loving-kindness and service of that community pulled me right out of that Outer Critic down-spiral. It was wonderful, and I'm tremendously grateful for my recovery group and program.

Part of my fearless inventory is recognizing that I must be aware and "on the lookout" for the voice of my Outer Critic to show up and start pointing out everybody's faults to me, scaring me away from them, and maybe even scaring them away from me. Not only be on the lookout for that voice, but to examine why it's showing up, and figuring out how to handle it in a healthy manner when it starts spewing all the nonsense it does.

Again, thanks for doing the research! I appreciate it.
-Chris336

I'm still hanging in there keeping myself safe during this prolonged excessively rough patch.

I fed my husband well this week to help with a hard week at work where he had to stay late every night.

I'm corresponding warmly with someone from my past with whom I had a difficult relationship filled with misunderstandings because when we knew each other we were young and neither of us yet understood our trauma-riddled lives.

Bach, I'm glad you are able to keep yourself safe during this period, and I hope things things start to become easier to handle soon. Self-care is incredibly important. Keep up the good work! 

Sunshine! Sol is our gigantic powerhouse in the sky. It directly or indirectly gives so much of our energy.

The stars and other cosmic sources! They provide the test of Earth's energy.

Air, and in particular, oxygen! Every beat of my heart and cell in my brain appreciates the oxygen delivered from the Earth's air via my lungs.

Water! Because it makes our planet look gorgeous from space, and because it quenches my thirst when I'm thirsty.

Personal care: 
  Showered and dressed
  Ate breakfast and cleaned up after myself
  Took pills
Household care: 
  Took out garbage, brought in recycling bin
  Made the bed
  Put away some extra supplies into closet

Although these are small things, some days I feel I need to boost my courage, energy, and feelings with whatever I can.


-Chris336

Is my "inner" critic actually in another person?

I think my partner criticizes me in place of my having a harsh, shaming inner critic. If I have this dynamic outside myself, maybe I don't need to have it inside myself, i.e. projection.

If this is the case, I need to shift things between us. I already point out when being spoken to with excessive volume and sharpness. I need to do more, I think. Search for resources for dealing with overly critical and harsh spouse.

We're in counseling. Maybe bring it up there... I can't stop my spouse's inner critic, because I have no control over other people. I can only attempt to understand and modify my own feelings and actions.