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Interesting thread.

In society we have this thing called "personality", most people believe that is who we are. It is simply the way we exhibit the effects of our past. It is not who we are at all.

If society was to realise that folks who are easy to get along with probably had the easiest upbringing and those who turn them off had difficult ones and are still suffering I think it would make life easier for us all. When it comes to work, the capitalist system is always looking for perfection, if your skills and abilities don't make your employer money you get fired, despite all our good intentions.

I am often looking at situations and asking myself am I looking at this with the right perspective? How would somebody who is mentally healthy act or respond? Sometimes I don't know and then decide the best thing is to do nothing. Doing nothing is a  course of action too. if you take a DISC test or another type of personality test it will reveal your mode of operating and another for coping in social situations such as being at work, this is really all about filtering you so that a company can be sure that they can make money from you. I did this test for a recruiter, they are suggesting I use it as a way to make changes to the way I interact with others. It is true that at heart I am kind and considerate but others see me as being target driven and authoritarian. The recruiter thinks that we are a ball of putty and we can mold ourselves and make changes to how we see the world around us, instead it is hard wired into our brains. While we are working on making changes to counter the effects of our past, we get more and more abuse from the people we interact with on a day to day basis, which helps to solidify our behaviors and belief systems. We never get any respite from the onslaught to grow.

The three articles written by Sandra Bloom are very good at identifying the kind of problems we have and it gives me some comfort when I get fired for the eight time, that it was not my fault once again. We find it difficult to learn from experience. The big challenge is knowing how we can move forward.

http://www.sanctuaryweb.com/Portals/0/Bloom%20Pubs/2000%20Bloom%20Email%20Grief%20that%20Dares%20Ravages%201.pdf

The thread is a little old now and many apologies for not keeping up to date.

I just wanted to comment on the point about abandonment and attachment disorders, I read Gabor Mate's "in the realm of the hungry ghosts," there are lots of issues that society is creating for children, who become adults, these often lead to addiction and attachment issues. They found that young rats that were taken away from their mother for only one hour per day did less well than those who stayed with their mother continuously. They also found that rats that were not licked by their mother had less seratonin receptors in their brains and were more likely to self medicate when drugs and alcohol were available. In the USA I see that most women have about two weeks off post-nataly, and the child then goes to a carer for 8 hours per day, while mother goes to work. I have no doubt that the lack of maternity leave has a direct impact on stress, anxiety and attachment disorders, even if the child is well loved and cared for. Of course it might depend on how susceptible the child is, we are all different of course and epigenetics could play a part. One does not need to be abused or neglected to develop attachment disorders.

Hi Dutch Uncle,
It has been a while, what you write is interesting, the more I suffer what others might call "social failure" the more empathy i have with human frailty. This goes against the current climate of neo-liberal "you must take responsibility for yourself." On the one hand I often berate myself for misdirection from 5 years ago that sent me on this path and at the same time I keep asking myself. How can I get out of this hole?   It is only with hindsight that often we see the wrong turn.

It is good news that through this situation you may find the support you need. I am still looking for my rescue scenario, I just hope that in a few months I don't realise once again what I should have been doing all along.

I have the thesis of my masters degree needing to be ready in two months - I didn't start yet, in the meantime I have  spent six months writing the proposal and having my tutors criticise it and make minor changes each week, while I used the excuse that I dodnt have a final decision to play games on my laptop for fours and hours each day. This is my alcoholism and disassociation. Now its a rush.

Good luck with the treatment, when you get it

I was going to post a thread about this today, I have been having that feeling intensely over the past few weeks, most of all when I wake up. For me its a feeling of dread and being in trouble, waiting for something to resolve, like when you have been caught doing something bad when a child and waiting for the punishment. I really feel in need of comfort and love. I live alone and work alone, the people I work for are relying on my skills to create a new project in the Middle east, as I have only been on the job a few months and I am striving to pay down debt from my last period of unemployment, I don't get out much so I don't have any friends here. I am worried that if this job collapses I will go home and be back in the position of trying to service debt with no income.

Yes, I think that I have some dysmorphia, although in I believe its a little more complicated. I spent a lot of years in the gym lifting very heavy weights, I became very fit, extremely muscular and very strong, I believed that people would love me if I looked amazing. This is partially societal, people are concerned with how they appear to others, in fact a few months ago my son said to me that he was not getting any sex because he thought he was not "buff".

On the other hand I was also looking for a release of unexpressed anger, the aggressive me was not welcome in my middle class world, and was relegated to the gym, this persona I called the "gym guy," my T and I met him during our Gestalt sessions. The second thing was that my experience in the gym lifting heavy weights was that it was euphoric, I would come away from my workouts, feeling like I had spoken directly to God. I have never experienced anything like it.

Ultimately, I didn't see my body as being lean and muscular, only that I just looked normal.

I just watched this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh2Sswfl4-w and I have seen a lot of people attacking narcissists on the form, I agree with Amanda that we are all victims of one kind or another, I believe that narcissists have learned a power game to externalise their pain whereas we tend to internalise it and beat ourselves up, just different sides of the same coin. It was Alice Miller who tried to investigate Hitler's childhood and found evidence of an abusive father and a unloving emotionally distant mother.

I just looked around the web, there are a number of units around, you can buy an EEG system for $1000 for a 16 channel setup, specialist neuro feedback systems start at $100. However, I would be cautious I just found this article in Psychology today. Learning to play the guitar might be more beneficial
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brain-myths/201302/read-paying-100s-neurofeedback-therapy-0

I am not a big advocate of therapy, not that its not worthwhile, simply because for the treatment of CPTSD there is a lifetime need, and what we really need are people who will listen without prejudice and provide loving care and others who will show wisdom and guidance, a mentor.  The need for therapists really highlights that our society lacks those people. I am interested in self administered neuro feedback, wondering if there are units that are affordable.

Since my current stint of employment is coming to an end, very likely due to my irritability and hyper-sensitivity to stress and anxiety, I saw certain things in my employer as potential threats and over reacted, such as late payment of salary and excessive deductions, I have tended to wonder how much of this is "me" and how much is attributed to past events. As a society we tend to judge people on their behaviour, and we are told that we are responsible for it. If I lose my temper because I see no other way to respond to a certain threat, it is me or my CPTSD? Since my parents have often blamed me as a child for the outcomes of situations between us, and as an adult I have been constantly in trouble of one kind or another, it seems that these problems are getting worse. I started to think that perhaps I have inherited traits from past generations, I come from three generations of soldiers, all saw active service from Flanders, through Dunkirk and North Africa to Aden and myself in the middle east in 1991.  On the one hand soldiering felt comfortable and on the other I am unable to fit into normal interactions on an everyday level. I wondered if animals pass of traits for survival, which are epi-genetic, could we be inheriting PTSD "behaviours" and traits from our famillies. In this paper they did a review of research into inheritability of PTSD, what I read into it is that on some level we are pre-coded to deal with high levels of trauma.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136568/

I just saw that I was going to review the book. Unfortunately I got to page 80 and dropped it, Levine likes to compare humans with animals and I think that he has a point in so far that socialisation has provided us ways in which we see the world around us as kind of fixed rather than dynamic. I was always struck by how excited my dog got about going for a run, when I was asking myself "do I have to do this again?" Chris McDougall also makes the same observation in his book about barefoot ultra runners, who laugh and joke as they pump out 100km. He thinks that socialisation has taken many of these joys from us, and I think that its the same for other aspects of our lives, we are no longer happy go lucky, we are self conscious and serious and thats how we are conditioned to be. The happy go luckies eventually get the happiness shaken out of them. But Levine does acknowledge that animals who are abused and neglected do eventually develop "personality disorders" we have all seen dogs who are scared around strangers.

I have begun to think that much of our sensitivity to trauma may be epi-genetic or conditioned, I remember working in Cambodia with mine action, they could not train Cambodian dogs to sniff out land mines, as they would be nervous and distracted. If somebody raises their hand the dag assumes that somebody is about to throw a stone at them and they run away, this behaviour has been pre-programmed as a means of survival rather the same as a new born impala will run when it sees a predator. I wonder if some of how we react is pre-programmed, three generations of soldiers make such great soldiers due to the epi-genetic traits handed down through the generations but also three generations of soldiers with a sensitivity to trauma.   In this review of scientific papers, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136568/ it does seem that susceptibility to trauma has some genetic or epi-genetic basis, this probably explains how behavioural traits are so recalcitrant, despite our best efforts. Knowing this, how we de/reprogram them is anybodies guess.

Hi Usuario,

Welcome to the group,

Every time I see a woman I'm attracted to, I get a flashback. My inner critic is telling me that I'm not good enough, that she would be disgusted if she found out that I liked her, and that I would make her uncomfortable and have to find a way to tactfully swat me away like a fly. That I'm unlikeable, fundamentally abnormal and unable to have a normal relationship with another person.

If I'm having a friendly conversation with her, I'll be thinking, "I'm going to be screwing this up soon".

That is a bit of a problem, I normally find just talking to people initially is my biggest hurdle. Although, as you say "whenever I see a woman" I am unsure if you are talking about somebody you just met randomly, or are going on dates or whether these are people you already know and want to know how to step up the relationship. Initially I thought that you were talking about random people in bars and on the street, but I realise that you are talking about dating people second time.  If you are on a date then she probably likes you somewhat, although rationalising that to the IC is hard.

I used to frequent bars and clubs all through my twenties hoping to meet people, I just wasted a whole lot of time and money, I could have had some great holidays to nice places instead. Nearly all the relationships I have had have been with women I have met when I have been backpacking, or people who know people who know me.

The truth is that you don't need to treat people differently, a lot of the messages that are sent between people who like each other are non verbal, if you intuit that she likes you then all you are 90% there. Usually women like men who listen so maybe you are just trying too hard, if she wants you she will do what it takes to get you. Just treat her like you would others and things tend to evolve. Why don't you tell them you dont date much and you are really nervous, your shy nervousness will come off as cute, unless you have never met and then it sounds a bit desperate.

I usually let the woman make all the moves, if you have to talk people into dating you it will kill your self esteem when things don't work out. If she makes the moves it means that she is committed. If she isn't making any moves or sending you signals then I would not see that as an "opportunity" and it might be my inner critic shouting, but I often sense that she is not talking to anybody because she dosen't want to and one should respect people's right to privacy and leave them alone. If I have convinced somebody to date me I would also feel very under pressure to have wasted their time as I would feel that they are there "for me" obviously if youre intuiting that she is really interested then its more mutual and you have started on an equal footing.

Apologies if I have misread your post in any way.

Best of luck

I struggle to feel things like excitement, joy and playfulness.

Is it possible to learn to feel these feelings again? I have a very flat personality

This is me too, like I have no joy for life, I recognized it 20 years ago, the only place I have ever found it is when I have been travelling around the world and found myself seeing the world as a 5 year old again.

a friend wanted to go out and eat. I didn't want to go out, be around people mid day, or have to look presentable, but I did. And the anticipation was worse than the event, as it usually is with me.

I also find this, and have noticed it with my family members, people who at the last minute bail out of social events, as far as I can see it comes down to fear, that we will be judged or perhaps let down, the inner critic is there on our shoulder telling us how bad its all going to be.

The critic starts when we wake up, last night I got a rejection letter for a job which I was eminently qualified for, and in my small field best experienced in, this morning that was my first thought, I  told myself "they didn't chose you, your personality sucks, you're not good enough" it sets us up for the day, so it is all about silencing that inner voice. Joy of life can't be fabricated just by walking around smiling, soon your inner critic will wear you down and make you feel like a fraud.  Its a long road

The seriousness of C-PTSD. I mean, it's horrible. I found it comforting at first, to kind of... "ok, this is what it is". A relief of sorts. Now I just... my god. I read some of the posts here, I look back upon my own life. It's a hellish affliction. That trauma can cause so much pain, be such a overwhelming state of despair and helplessness. That it can affect you so much on both a mental, emotional, physical and neurological level... I'm having a hard time accepting it.

Convalescent, this is the best precis of CPTSD I have ever seen or heard. It is so true, and these things affect our interactions with others and our ability to form strong relationships at home and socially. Then despite our enthusiasm to move forward, onwards and upwards, we find ourselves scaling a slippery slope that should be solid. The constant failure to thrive adds to our complement of shame and disappointment.

I remember reading that people act out organisational cultures. I found the UK and France worst for this, people just take themselves far too seriously, perhaps the US is similar. I guess this presents problems for us as we are desperately looking for our real selves but at work we have to put on a corporate face, well that has always been a problem for me. 


http://humanresources.about.com/od/organizationalculture/a/culture.htm

Indeed, that is very true. Its time for some Gin spirit.