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I have been thinking and noticing a feeling that I am on the outside looking in. I have lived in this little town for 23 years now. When people talk to me about someone who lives in the town I know very little about who lives where, drives what etc. The local bar is a point of socialization here I don't go to bars very much...The One church in town is not My faith so I don't go there.

I do suffer sometimes from anxiety attacks.  Although NOT as much as I used too.

It reminded me of being bullied in school. Never feeling like I belonged. I felt/feel like that from My family who denies the abuse, and since I am a half Sister I have never fit in. Sometimes My Mother still puts me down.

I don't have an answer yet on how to help myself with it. I am just throwing it out there to see what others think.

[responsibly]

Hi,
I had been No contact with My Sister for 2 years when I had a heart attack ( and almost died Feb 2016.) We decided to start socializing again shortly after that. It has been really bumpy from the start. Three Years before that an acquaintance of Ours Told My Sister that I had said My Sister was a child molester... ( I have never said, thought or dreamed this. My Sis responsibly babysat for MY kids from birth to whatever and ALSO babysat for My Grand Children.

The Acquaintance is a full-blown narcissist IMHO.  (undiagnosed) The Story has so many lies added to it. It has grown legs! The acquaintance had/has My Sister Gardening, cooking and cleaning, For Free. She will do whatever she can to control My Sis. No matter what Sis has not believed Me OR She gets settled down and Narc starts adding more believable lies. My Sis and I had been getting along (fairly, but strained) until Acquaintance started ADDING again to her lies. Sis cuts off contact and starts texting me all this crap that isn't true. Unfortunately, I had cut OFF AQ NARC many Years before because I saw how BAD she was. She can really Make the stories believable as were "Good" Freinds before I saw her without A MASK ON. AQ NARC really knows how to push Sis's buttons.

Many times when my Sis says dumb stuff, I tell her Well If You believe this You should cut me OFF or various other similar answers. For example, last Summer she told me that She thought I was trying to kill her. I told her that I thought that If She believed that She should cut OFF ALL contact with me. So, I say something once and refuse to go over and over things. I no longer borrow her money etc. Now She says I've changed...Well Yes, I think to Myself. I am learning to Not be manipulated By people. I am learning to stand-up for Myself. I will NEVER let You use me again.
Of course, this puts me in a depression.

After AQ NARC gets Sis riled up with more lies, Sis starts texting vile stuff.  She goes over and over past hurts shes had held against me, (many times her twisted veiw of how it happened) some for decades... I go through 3 weeks of No contact with her but these Vile texts. Previously, I had recognized during My work on Myself that People used Various threats, blaming, etc to manipulate me so I would cuddle all over them (even If I had really done nothing wrong) to control me.  I have learned to Not get into the Word Salads.  I always try to keep the conversations/ texts fair and Honest with My Sister. So, I say something once and refuse to go over and over things.

Yesterday, She calls me acting normal like nothing has happened, all friendly and sweet 
For a while now I have been wondering about split personalities. How common is that? as I am thinking about it It makes sense...

Feminine side...Sweet, cleaner dressed, artistic, funny...Male side. Messy caustic, defensive, mean, dressed Manish...She also talks about Ghosts destroying stuff in Her house, things getting misplaced and found places she would never put it. Things getting broke by ghosts.  I had been thinking She is delusional. She comes up with some great "Truths" that are way out there. Split personality does fit, however. I think the Male Personality is aggressive and breaks her stuff etc.

Does anybody know about split personalities and C-PTSD? It seems to fit many problems I've had with My Sis. I am recognizing when She gets into the boy role. Perhaps the "Boy" role is what she used to protect herself from the abuse both of us suffered.

I don't know any comments would be appreciated...I had so Much work to do to get this to make sense, My mind is quit scattered right now.

 

Christmas Eve here .. my house usually with only 3. Now has nine, 3 of the nine are under 5  so a very busy age . I am having triggers  from boys yelling and screaming , everything that boys their age should be doing , I have retreated to my man cave in hopes of finding my center , so I can rejoin the family , and not look like a spaced out one,, wishing you all the very best.

I have a problem with that too. I always try and remind myself when I am with My Granddaughters that it is NORMAL to make Noise. It is Not normal to walk around like zombies to satisfy a Toxic person. You are doing the right thing. Take a timeout. If I do get upset and go overboard right away I tell My granddaughters ( 8,10,) I am sorry, I explain to them I am wrong, Many times I will explain in a simple way that My expectations are wrong because I was raised "to never be allowed to talk or have fun."

I tell them I am working on that and to let me know If they catch me doing whatever it is. When they catch me then I thank them. ( it makes them feel important to be telling a grandma things she needs help with) I am hoping at the same time that it teaches them How to treat other people.

I've just been triggered a bit by a conversation with my sister who struggles with some of the same things but in a demonstrably less extreme way. (1)She asked if she should be worried about me and I responded with some of the recent optimism I've developed as a result of uncovering my emotional abuse and finding CPTSD and this forum. (2) She responded that she'd been through it all before and intimated that I shouldn't get my hopes up. This is her typical behavior: (3) no one suffers worse than her and I certainly never could. Moreover, (4)she's experienced IT ALL before and is an expert on MY emotions. She's only 18 months older.

She and I have grown closer over the last couple of years as a result of our similar struggles but every time I see her she finds a way to get a dig in, some of which are things my more chronic and violent abusers have said. These include questioning my sexuality despite repeatedly stating my interest in women. At Thanksgiving, it was "my life is more interesting than yours".

I've been debating what I should do with her as she's the least problematic family member I have but is still clearly a periodic abuser and some of her behavior still triggers me. She just responded asking me not to get too sensitive, which I believe is a standard strategy to make me feel shame about expressing my feelings. 

Can anyone shed some light on this relationship and what is typically seen as best practice? Is this the type of situation I should try to work through or is this a case where a period of no contact would be best while I attempt to recover a bit more. I'd hate to lose this new intimacy but I guess if it's a damaging intimacy then maybe it's for the best.

I have been thinking about Your post since yesterday. Actually, I have been thinking and asking Myself some of the same questions.  I don't want to appear to be more than a seeker of knowledge and No expert but this is My humble opinion.

I have gone over a youtube talk about Narcissists or Toxic People around us. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJbIfLRme90

(sorry Kizzy I always did have a problem doing links! LOL)
I copied the transcript and made it into the file below. (it was many hours of work to get it in a readable form.) I might have added/changed a few things to make it readable. I used Open Office to do this work.
Even though I have proofread it many times I still have mistakes.

I think Many of the things You mentioned are included. Go Over the list/listen to the Video. (the guy that reads it has a computer voice it is very informative though.

What I have been looking at and working on with My Sister.

• I am Not telling her anything in confidence anymore. Toxic People want You to trust them and then they use what You say in Confidence to turn around and Hurt You. They use Your feelings/confidences to create believable gossip, They use it to play mental games on You. They use it to manipulate Your relationships with other people.
• I am working on things to say when she makes some of the statements she does (see # 17) I am standing up for My self. (covert putdowns) Sometimes I ask a Question in response. "Why would You say that?" for example. With My husband when he does this I agree with him. "OH Yes, I am such a _____." that does seem to knock them off guard.
• I am looking at the cycles of the different games. They feel like they are losing grip on You and the games begin. It is sad that I have to study these Toxic people in order to understand How I am/have been affected by it. Be aware of when the MASK comes off. Look for that and YOU will see the manipulations that toxic people try and work on You. 
• They are grandiose and Anything You say will be ONE-UPPED by them. I had it so much worse. In MY family I was the scapegoat, so other siblings either will not admit the truth of the abuse, did not get treated as bad as You did, or were too Young to remember or have it buried.  I does NO good to discuss the abuse with people that have no understanding. 
•   Remember Families don't want us to heal. 

I think You are doing a good job at recognizing and listening when things don't seem right Good for YOU!  

yes, I have to admit this is also one of My coping skills. I get is a conversation with someone (really with Myself) speaking to a person, and I have all the hand movements and facial expressions to go with it. Some of it does help me though. For me, it is like a rehearsal. I am rehearsing what I am going to say to a person who has offended me or whatever. It helps me to decide which battles to fight. It also helps me to finally speak up for Myself in the most non-offensive way to whomever I have been having the conversations with in My head. So, it probably has some good points with the bad. My Son catches me doing this and tells me about it. So, personally, I am more aware of it.

I suspect for me, part of it is holding back what I feel like saying being with Mental Ill family ALL of My life. The "walking on eggshells" syndrome. A person in a healthy relationship should be able to express themselves FREELY without worrying. For those of US for various reasons did not get the "Safe" place to express ourselves as children probably suffer from this from one degree to another.

My escape as a child was always BOOKS...I read every book My Mom had in their library. True Story magazines, Navy military books, high school textbooks...Whatever I hadn't read...I spend days and months on My bunk bed reading. Right now I spend hours reading things on My computer.

I remember one Daydream of getting out of a "bad" relationship. I even put a deposit on a very small apartment. I never did move in... I'd go there though to clear My head though. So Yes Daydreaming can cause financial problems! I came to My senses and just Divorced the guy. I do at least tell Myself now that You are "daydreaming again".  It is a sign to me that I need to make some positive move for whatever problem I am in.

MIndfullness exercises can help with that. Trying to live in the moment! Thank You for bringing this up...I am going to escape today reading about and printing off Mindfull exercises. If I get some good links I will share them.  pam [/size][/font]

I was an active member at the beginning of this forum. I just dropped out one day and no one heard from me again. I don't know why I did that...I really just had a nervous breakdown It lasted about 2 years. Now because I get depressed in the winter I am also very depressed.

I did learn many positive things from the group that did help me. I learned about setting boundaries. I have stood with Most boundaries I have set. Now, I state My boundary and hold to its firm. It has helped me with finances. I am not just giving money away to people that make way more than me. It was a little strange for me.

I did try and start a new relationship with My Sister and that has not gone well...I have been accused by a Narcissist that I spread bad rumors about My Sister that I had not even thought about. She believes the Narc. My Psych. told me she was delusional. (he is her psych also!) I have tried to spread and give Her God's love and that Has not worked. So, that has me going back to My Childhood again looking at cause and effect for C-PSD. I am not beating My head against the wall

I am the Oldest child and I remember many things She does not remember and of course she thinks I am making things up...so I have been working on things as they come up. That's part of what caused My nervous breakdown before when I quit posting here.
So many things kept coming up and I was just bogged down because of it. At the time I felt like I had to quit. I was getting too depressed and it was going deeper and deeper.

I still have a relationship with My narc Mom. In some ways, she is getting better. She has even apologized a few times to Me! I did Get her and My Sister talking to her again. Mom had totally cut her OFF. Mom felt offended when She makes up this stuff about how bad her childhood was and MOM can't take it (because most of it is lies) I don't know how to deal with it in a positive way.

it would seem that My Sister and I should be able to discuss the abuse and work things out together. What happens with My mentally ill Sister is that NONE had it as Bad as HER. She was treated like a little princess in IMHO. I was the stepchild that was not loved and WAS abused. My Sis was the bright and shining light for My stepfamily because she had the first Girl child in a world of pedophiles. Even at that age, I watched her like a guard dog to make sure she was NOT abused by her Blood family. (i am almost 6 years older.) So, part of My depression is that I can't help her get well, and I realized that I can't have the relationship I want to with her. In fact, after the latest spew of garbage she was accusing me of I told Her that I thought She should stay away from Me if She thought I was so evil. Then She was/is creating lies and telling My Mom about me.    I did confront her and she said "Well You have been in contact all those years that I could not have with her, so now it is My turn."

At the same time, I noticed My MOM getting Crabby at me for no reason. So, Now I don't have a relationship with My mom now much either. (Not that it was that great, It was more of a fair weather friends type relationship0   I guess that is the flying monkeys' syndrome. I have learned to just let it be and NOT worry about it like I used to. I can't change it, I have no control over it, and I did not start it.

Kizzy, I am sorry for the delay in starting so much later than what I wanted to. I probably should be posting also on the Out of the fog site but I am not sure I have the time, energy or mental capacity to do both.

I would like to work on taking better care of Myself as a goal for being here and posting here. I know that sounds small but it has been a lifelong problem of mine since I was a child. Always neglecting Myself to take care of everyone else. I'd also like to work on the C-PTSD. some but not enough to have a nervous breakdown again...     

I have been trying to read more on this section but I start having stomach aches. My heart starts pounding. Like a panic attack . Bad thing is that it is probably what I need the most?

Keep on keeping on! : hug:

Hi All,

Something new to think about for Me. Winters have always been bad for Me. I live in the Northern plains where it is very cold and dreary.   I have been diagnosed with SADD so just thought it was me.

Possible trigger....

Mostly as a child I remember being cold All winter. I never had proper winter coats, boots, etc. I distinctly remember in 4th grade the teacher giving me a pair of winter boots.. They were
Like old ladies wore in those days, to big, and the teacher made me wear them outside...I lived in the central plains then. I would have froze to death living here! Of course I was bullied terribly..
In 7th grade I got a pair of hand me down boots about 10 years out dated and very ugly Mom made me wear them!

I also remember running out of fuel as a child... Also cold!!!  How responsible is it to run out of fuel as an Adult? As I am looking at it now, that is pretty irresponsible! 

Thank You for bringing this up something more to think about!

Keep on keeping on! :huh:

Hi All,

I really like the "true" crime stories. I have always wondered about Myself on wether I am sick and perverted. Lol. When I was younger I always read true crime Mags. Now they seem to have more of a story line in them, but I like the ones with more of the scientific plots. I find I do Not like the ones where the killers are women or children.

Lately, I have been trying to watch various other things. I never did like comedy's or musicals. So I have been watching more documentaries. I have been trying to see IF the "crime shows" depress me more??

Pammy Sue wants me to watch more children's shows...I am trying but I say NO to her way to much on that one!

Keep on keeping on!

When I was a child I always had stomach problems, nausea, vomiting in the AM every day, constipation, and postponing bowel movements. As I am going through this healing I have started to get the same physical problems I had as a child. I have NOT had any of these problems since I was a child .  Has any of You noticed the physical signs of stress coming back as You are working on you walk toward heAling?  Since I am not nearly as far as some of you are in my Walk toward healing maybe You have read or experienced something like this ... Comments please!

Keep on keeping on! :hugs:

Deaflated... I come to the realization that I need to make more changes in My life to heal.  I wrote to Rain a little bit about the flying Monkeys in my life and Rain wrote in PM

I have an easier time keeping up with a TV soap opera storyline / family history than I do with your life, friend.   Simply unbelievable ...and, all this in a tiny town.

And, how many PDs can you endure!?

I so hope this all calms down for you, Pam, so you can heal.   Finish healing.

It dawned on Me that with ALL the stress and PD's that I have in My life, how can I heal? I mean I really AM making progress from Last year.. But I keep getting bombarded with problems others are putting on Me that I can't have time to heal. Kizzy here somewhere wrote that She was in survival mode for so long... That,s me I am in survival mode yet!

I am still helping so many people out I still do not have time to concentrate on MY healing! The best thing is that I AM NOT as depressed as I usually am... But still find Myself in a freeze mode often. (At least not months and days on end like I used to be!!)

Anyway just My thoughts... Not sure what to do yet... Still in thinking mode!

Keep on keeping on!

  Voicless,

So did You ask Your therapist about this? What did You fine out?  I am interested to know 

Keep on Keeping on!

Thank You for the links Rain... I am going to study them at great length. It is so hard to describe what all My Sister has done to me. My mother fits in some of them but not a lot???

@ Mary contrary,

This sounds like a easy thing to do to help ones self. somewhere I did see a link on u tube about it. I did try and listen and watch it.. but either at the time I was watching it, It seemed overwhelming and complicated. ( I have ADD) so I have that on My bucket list to check out again! 

@Behealthy... can You tell me about  do-it-yourself EMDR butterfly hug technique, that You talked about?

[Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts. Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern.]

Wow! Thank You for posting this Anne girl.  honestly I don't think My Mother fits in all of these but My Sister sure does. Great Job! Did You write this? I am waiting for the next Seven! LOL. I know it was a lot of work already! I wished I could get My nephew out of the fog to read this! It sure would help HIM. I am going to try and get a printer going so I can copy this!

I am having ALL kinds of problems in the mobile home park me and Hubby have, because of all the trouble the My Sister has caused. The part I like about this all the most is that the N is so subtle about  their abuse that It is not recognized easily. For examples:

anne girl wrote. 

Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts. Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is best for you. She only wants to "help" you.

Instead, any time that you tell her you've done something good, she counters with something your sibling did that was better or she simply ignores you or she hears you out without saying anything, then in a short time does something cruel to you so you understand not to get above yourself.

Many of her put downs are simply by comparison. She'll talk about how wonderful someone else is or what a wonderful job they did on something you've also done or how highly she thinks of them. The contrast is left up to you... but once your narcissistic mother has you trained, she can promise terrible punishment without a word. As a result, you're always afraid, always in the wrong, and can never exactly put your finger on why.

Because her abusiveness is part of a lifelong campaign of control and because she is careful to rationalize her abuse, it is extremely difficult to explain to other people what is so bad about her. She's also careful about when and how she engages in her abuses. She's very secretive, a characteristic of almost all abusers ("Don't wash our dirty laundry in public!") and will punish you for telling anyone else what she's done. The times and locations of her worst abuses are carefully chosen so that no one who might intervene will hear or see her bad behavior, and she will seem like a completely different person in public. She'll slam you to other people, but will always embed her devaluing nuggets of snide gossip in protestations of concern, love and understanding ("I feel so sorry for poor Cynthia. She always seems to have such a hard time, but I just don't know what I can do for her!")

As a consequence the children of narcissists universally report that no one believes them ("I have to tell you that she always talks about YOU in the most caring way!"). Unfortunately therapists, given the deniable actions of the narcissist and eager to defend a fellow parent, will often jump to the narcissist's defense as well, reinforcing your sense of isolation and helplessness ("I'm sure she didn't mean it like that!")

You feel like an extension of her. Your property is given away without your consent, sometimes in front of you. Your food is eaten off your plate or given to others off your plate. Your property may be repossessed and no reason given other than that it was never yours. Your time is committed without consulting you, and opinions purported to be yours are expressed for you. (She LOVES going to the fair! He would never want anything like that. She wouldn't like kumquats.) You are discussed in your presence as though you are not there.

She keeps tabs on your bodily functions and humiliates you by divulging the information she gleans, especially when it can be used to demonstrate her devotion and highlight her martyrdom to your needs ("Mike had that problem with frequent urination too, only his was much worse. I was so worried about him!") You have never known what it is like to have privacy in the bathroom or in your bedroom, and she goes through your things regularly. She asks nosy questions, snoops into your email/letters/diary/conversations. She will want to dig into your feelings, particularly painful ones and is always looking for negative information on you which can be used against you. She does things against your expressed wishes frequently. All of this is done without seeming embarrassment or thought.

She undermines.
Your accomplishments are acknowledged only to the extent that she can take credit for them. Any success or accomplishment for which she cannot take credit is ignored or diminished. Any time you are to be center stage and there is no opportunity for her to be the center of attention, she will try to prevent the occasion altogether, or she doesn't come, or she leaves early, or she acts like it's no big deal, or she steals the spotlight or she slips in little wounding comments about how much better someone else did or how what you did wasn't as much as you could have done or as you think it is. She undermines you by picking fights with you or being especially unpleasant just before you have to make a major effort. She acts put out if she has to do anything to support your opportunities or will outright refuse to do even small things in support of you. She will be nasty to you about things that are peripherally connected with your successes so that you find your joy in what you've done is tarnished, without her ever saying anything directly about it. No matter what your success, she has to take you down a peg about it.

She will deliver generalized barbs that are almost impossible to rebut (always in a loving, caring tone): "You were always difficult" "You can be very difficult to love" "You never seemed to be able to finish anything" "You were very hard to live with" "You're always causing trouble" "No one could put up with the things you do."

She will deliver slams in a sidelong way - for example she'll complain about how "no one" loves her, does anything for her, or cares about her, or she'll complain that "everyone" is so selfish, when you're the only person in the room. As always, this combines criticism with deniability.

6. She makes you look crazy.
If you try to confront her about something she's done, she'll tell you that you have "a very vivid imagination" or that you "made it all up" (this is a phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your experience of their abuse) that you don't know what you're talking about, or that she has no idea what you're talking about. She will claim not to remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will she ever acknowledge any possibility that she might have forgotten.

Once she's constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood.
She didn't do anything.
She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her.
You've hurt her terribly.
She thinks you may need psychotherapy.
She loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she just doesn't know what to do.
You keep pushing her away when all she wants to do is help you.

She has simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for your obvious antipathy towards her, implied that it's something fundamentally wrong with you that makes you angry with her, and undermined your credibility with her listeners. She plays the role of the doting mother so perfectly that no one will believe you.

7. She's envious.
Any time you get something nice she's angry and envious and her envy will be apparent when she admires whatever it is. She'll try to get it from you, spoil it for you, or get the same or better for herself. She's always working on ways to get what other people have. The envy of narcissistic mothers often includes competing sexually with their daughters or daughters-in-law. They'll attempt to forbid their daughters to wear makeup, to groom themselves in an age-appropriate way or to date. They will criticize the appearance of their daughters and daughters-in-law. This envy extends to relationships. Narcissistic mothers infamously attempt to damage their children's marriages and interfere in the upbringing of their grandchildren.

Anne, we have discussed this before... I said that I was trying to have a relationship with MY mother. I can see WHY You might have to go no contact with Yours. My Mother must have a bad case of the fleas because I can only see a few things that My Mother does in this list. My Sister? She does all the things I underlined... Thank You again for posting this. I see HOW people can believe MY Sister...