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Thank you for sharing this Kizzie, sounds like just what the doctor ordered, as I also suffer from abandonment issues  

I can also relate, particularly with respect to videos that I edit, spend way too long obsessing over those final details to make it perfect (harsh inner critic telling me it is not good enough etc.).  My aim is to basically try and edit videos in a much shorter timeframe from now on - so that I don't get so worried about making mistakes or trying to make a perfect video (whatever that is - as it is only a hobbie .

Just a quick question about learned helplessness, as I have only just realized that I definitely have this going on (as well as toxic shame and a harsh inner critic).  Which I am working on slowly but surely with CBT and mindfulness.    Are there any resources that you have found here which can help with getting over learned helplessness??  Or is it something that has been extensively discussed on this forum anywhere, as I can't seem to find it?  Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Anon72

Hey friends,

I've noticed over the past few weeks, since I came to OOTS (I love the new look) that we often seem to regret coming to recovery so late in life.  It makes sense to me that this is common, since healing from the inside out takes time and care.  I am 41 and admit sometimes I feel a wave of panic when I think of all the things I could be doing, could have done, if only my CPTSD hadn't sent me down so many holes. And then I remember...Last Christmas my partners son died of cancer at 19 after a short and vicious illness which ripped time, opportunity and hope from him over the space of four months.  It was an utter nightmare to watch him die and see him have his future suddenly taken away.   Lack of time was one of the most horrifying aspects of the cancer.  Actual, bare bones, lack of time.  No time even to reflect before the coffin was coming down the street and my partner was saying 'He's here.'

When I feel panicky about wasting so much of my life and coming or recovery late, I always, always, now, am brought back to the bare facts of that Illness.  We would all have given everything we had for just one more day for Sam, one without mortal fear and agonizing pain.  How does it help to remember this? I suppose it brings me up sharp.  Whilst it is heartbreaking it also makes me count my blessings which I think we must always try to do if we want to live....celebration of the tiniest things can bring joy.   There are days when I am utterly trapped by myself, my own emotions and reactions and circumstances as I perceive them, but now less than ever.  Since the cancer I have definitely uncovered some deep truths for myself.   It's not a case of just pulling my socks up and hurrying up and getting better....we all know that just isn't possible.  No, it's more of a slow, cultivation of real gratitude for the things we can all have....a conversation with a stranger, a  chink of sunshine in a thundery sky, a warm bath, a nice meal.  For a long time I couldn't allow these things to nourish me.  I was too damaged and intent on perpetuating that damage, unconsciously, in a million different ways.  I am so thankful I can be thankful now if that makes sense.

Life could be over tomorrow, that's what I'm trying to say.  Let's be kind to ourselves and patient with ourselves and love what we have.

Thank you mybeautifulabuser for this lovely post!  Sooooo true, I have only just discovered the whole uBPD & CPTSD thing - and am struggling to nourish myself - but seem to be perpetuating that damage at times (no matter how hard I try not to).  Will continue to try my best (that is all we can do) - and understand that it takes time - and in the meantime - try to be grateful for the little things     And yes, I also regret coming to find out this stuff so late in life, but better late than never (at least I am trying to remind myself of that ).

[I like the other person]

reluctantastronaut that is a tough one, and I think an issue that many of us are struggling with or have struggled with; how to find safe, loving people to support us especially when our FOOs were not safe. How can we be in safe loving relationships when we not only have no idea what that looks like but also were often actively taught that unhealthy, unsafe relationships represented 'love'?

I have struggled with this problem myself, and while I have been making friends with healthy people (or one who at least are on their own healing journeys) I am still struggling against childhood messages that have generally 'forbidden' me from engaging in healthy relationships, and especially supportive relationships outside my FOO (and I have been NC with my parents for more than 5 years and LC for a good 5 years before that - sorry, did not mean to be discouraging. It DOES GET BETTER and it DOES GET EASIER but it also does take work). Here is a list of some things that have been helpful for me. They might or might not be helpful for you so please feel welcome to use, ignore, and/or modify as best suits you.

>learning to have good boundaries.
-Good boundaries make for good friends. Healthy, or 'healthy enough' people are uncomfortable interacting with those who have poor boundaries (too rigid or too weak).
-Predatory people, on the other hand, have an instinct to be attracted to those with poor boundaries.

>recognizing different levels of 'friendship'
-learning the difference between acquaintances, friends, romantic partners, close friends, buddies, etc. is important
-when I first started making friends, I did not know the difference, often telling too much to people who were not at a close enough level, but also not able to ask for help from people who would otherwise be close enough to 'expect to' be asked for help from me

>Remembering that it is as/more important to know if I like the other person as it is whether or not they like me
-I used to approach relationships with a 'I hope they like me, what can I do to make them like me?, like me, like me, like me!!' attitude.
-this is poor boundaries and often a turn off to healthy/healthy enough people
-now, I pay more attention to who the other person is as a human being, asking 'how does this person treat me?', 'how do they treat others? (e.g. the cashier at the store)', 'how do they interact with their friends?', etc.
-I refuse to 'fight' to have someone like me. If they do and I like them then I continue the interactions. If they do not like me, then I do my best to let it go and move on. If I do not like them then I let it go and move on.

>I listen to what the other person says about themselves
-this, for me, is particularly important in potentially romantic situations, but still applies in all levels of relationships
-e.g. if the person says 'sometimes I can be a real a$$hole, then I believe them. No one, especially at the start of a relationship has a reason to lie about being a jerk. If someone says something like that then they usually mean it. I have no wish to be with someone who is an a$$hole, so I know to take them at their word and move on.
-I have also had that one thrown back at me - 'I don't know why you are upset that I acted like a jerk, I told you from the beginning that I can be a real a$$hole sometimes'. So, really, now if someone says something like that then I BELIEVE THEM.

>Recognizing that no one is ever going to be a 'perfect friend', nor are most people 'perfect enemies' (personally, I exclude the Cluster B people - I do not really view them as 'perfect enemies' as I do not wish to invest that energy in them, but I do stay far away knowing they would be perfect enemies were i to stay engaged with them)
-personally, I was raised in a system of 'that person is a saint who can walk on water' or 'that person is a devil who must be denigrated and shunned' with nothing in between. NO person fits in either category. EVERYONE in healthy friendships will do their best but sometimes make mistakes in their interactions with each other. Making a mistake is NOT an indication that the person can never more be trusted. The way that they respond to the mistake, however, gives some hints.

>I follow 'the rule of three'
-recognizing that people in healthy relationships sometimes make mistakes and hurt one another, how to know if they are trustworthy or should be kept as friends? For me, the rule of three comes in.
-the first time someone does something that hurts/offends me it is an 'accident' (they might have different perspective and could not know I would be hurt or offended). The second time is a 'coincidence' or 'oops' (they are still learning to remember it hurts/offends me). The third time is a pattern and time to rethink the relationship
-For example, if someone does something that hurts me, e.g. teases me about a particular sore spot, I say 'when you tease me about that I feel hurt, please stop.' If the person apologizes and indicates they will do differently in the future then I accept the apology and move on in the relationship (they could not know that it hurt me until I told them so 'not their fault').
-if the person teases me in the same way the second time, I again say, 'please remember it hurts me when you do that, please stop'. If the apology is genuine and the attempt to change genuine then we move on.
-if the person does it a third time then I rethink whether I wish to maintain the type of relationship that I have with them (either scaling back to a more distant level, or dropping the relationship altogether).

>Getting out of the house more
-I am an introvert and enjoy my 'alone time'. BUT staying home is highly unlikely to lead to opportunities to meet others who might become friends/acquaintances/romantic partners, etc.
-BUT I do NOT 'hunt' for friends, etc. while there. I go to enjoy the activity and learn new things while doing my best to hold back from the idea 'I am doing this to make friends, what if I don't make friends, then I'm a failure, I need to make them like me!' spiral. Difficult yes, but the more I hold back from that, the more I have made real friends (and the less I am preyed upon by those who would do me harm)
-sticking to topics/activities that genuinely interest me helps with that. Getting into the topic relieves the 'I'm there to make friends' impulse because I am there to 'get something out of it - learning, fun, possible friendships, etc.)
-now, I volunteer with a group of people working on projects in my community. I have been with the group for years. So far, all of these people remain my 'teammates' which we are all happy with. Recently, one has started to become more of a real friend. That makes me happy too.
-I have also taken classes at the community centre. Some of the individuals in the classes are becoming my friends.
-I have participated in meetup groups related to my interests. I have developed several genuine friendships through these activities.

>I have been doing my best to take things slowly
-by going slowly, I have time to listen to my instincts about people and decide whether or not I wish to be friends with them. I am able to evaluate their behaviour towards me and others. I ease the pressure to 'make them like me' by giving us both time to see whether or not we like each other. I remove the pressure to tell too much too soon, etc.

I am learning to value myself
-I have been working with a therapist especially on this one
-by valuing myself, I am learning to KNOW and to BELIEVE that I DESERVE to be in HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS.
-without that belief I was continually being drawn into co-dependent relationships, which were harmful to me, and often to the other person
-now I know that I am worthy of, that I deserve to be in relationships where people value me for who I am.
-for that to happen, I had to first learn to value myself for who I am, or at least to value myself 'enough' to start healthy interactions and end unhealthy ones.

I hope some of that might be useful to you. Again, only you know your circumstances, feelings, preferences, etc. Only you can choose what works for you. Please use, ignore, and/or modify any or all of the above as best suits what you want and need.

Sending good thoughts 

Reluctantastronaut, just wanted you to know that I am struggling with the very same question - if that helps   Am guessing it will take time to figure this all out.  At the moment, it seems that people are avoiding me, as I am not exactly the most fun person to be around, have some depression & anxiety, and find it difficult to concentrate at work and be sociable - so don't have to worry about people "lining" up to be friendly and hang out with me

I like Vanilla - just wanted to thank you for this post, it made a lot of sense - and definitely something I can use also   Thanks also for the encouragement that it does get easier.  It has only been one month since I finally realized that my mum was uBPD and that I may have CPTSD.  Funny how for so long we never thought about how important it was what we thought about the other person - only worried about whether or not they liked us??  I am not there yet, but know that I need to start creating boundaries and taking time to let people get close to me etc.  Anyways, I am still in shock at the moment (and doing a lot of reading on these websites to try and make sense of it all).  I have days when I feel like I am getting better, then followed by more days when it feels like my CBT & mindfulness is not really working - as I am stuck in those bad old grooves.  But glad to hear that it will get better slowly but surely!  Thank you.