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I'll make the situation more interesting.

This is a real example I've seen happening in front of my very own eyes, and I'll impersonate the person. My name is Joe.

I've C-PTSD (Joe). I've never had many friends in the past, and I come here and open a thread of how much I want a massage. I don't make it sexual, I'm just speaking of a massage. 

This wouldn't make much sense for anyone who would observe fast. In this forum, there could be people sexually abused, and this would be triggering. I believe there'd be many more situations this would be triggering to many.

As a result of everything (scenario, forum members trauma, Joe's own trauma), I, Joe, could easily receive invalidating or angry reply, and feel excluded from the group. (this is what I think and would expect to happen)

If I want to make it even more harsh Joe I (Joe) could at some point start asking a massage directly to a member of OOTS, on the same thread. (I've seen this happening, too, in real life).

The person is question is someone I've been knowing on the streets.

If there is any thought like they can receive psychological support, I agree, as long as they can receive it trauma informed as anyone has they right to, proved they've C-PTSD.

My personal view is I intensively detest any abusers and would like to see anyone who lived traumatizing childhood experience and has got a minimal intention of not becoming like their parents properly helped and supported.
It's not a business of mine to think if this is utopia or not, but it's my philosophy.

I have read in a book than in any sort of group they'll always be a black sheep.

If I take OOTS into consideration I could then imagine there are people who can't fit into this group.
People who obviously need as much support as I and others need here.

An act of invalidation would be say, no, that's not possible, this place is good and we have good support here.

Yes, but, who is guaranteeing there aren't people that due to our traumas, we wouldn't be able to let them stay with us?

As I've never had been fitting in a group as a childhood, this is a concern of mine and I'm interested in hearing the oponion of this forum.

I think in order to participate in a forum a good degree of self expression is required and not anyone has that.
Some people have been abused in sub a way they may have coping mechanism witch doesn't make them compatible with the coping mechanism a OOTS member may have.
This is another logic I'm considering.

I'm waiting for the moment I feel ready to write a reply here. 
However, I'm reading this conversation and find it interesting.   
Thanks.

Given how it feels when you think about this Chronos, maybe it's something to actually consider? 

Would that be possible in the first place without skills in any field that involves the wilderness?
Have you got them or have you thought if there is anything witch would make you appealing to that kind of job market Chronos?

Traveling can help, in my opinion.

Edit: feelings are complex, and in the case of C-PTSD, this is even more true.
I want to say that in my experience, sometimes I feel in a specific way, but that is not exactly correlated to a specific action or scenario. If it is a wish, sometimes is more like several sets of specific things we wish to obtain, in my experience; it has not much to do with the specific action or scenario we could imagine.
I was often told I could be a philosopher and also a monk by persons of the past and some also related to FOO. I dreamed about the monk thing sometimes, but I obtained what I wanted of that while never becoming a monk or even trying,
Taking it step by step brought me further, regarding that.

That doesn't mean I'd not enjoy a spiritual retreat or something, but rather that it is not my focus at all. I didn't have better words to explain all this, but I wish my message to be useful if it could apply to someone else here.

What would be your view on this ACE score for members without trauma informed T./group?
Would you recommend it to new members?

May you find the freedom from the abusive FOO and their toxic messages, then.
Welcome on board.

I can get, like anyone, all the support available on the Internet.
But, that's one single thing, text and the idea of the persons and value behind every single post.

As I'm homeless and I can't find any more places to handle flashback I recently have got even more close to nature than I used to.
The placed where I used to stop for quick toilet has a nice tree when now I stay on and think and handle flashbacks.
It is basically my first time on a tree and instic brought me there.
It is not amazingly comfortable but the level of protection that tree offer me is something I can't describe.

So I was thinking I've sad and joyful moments in life. Yet, even I've the joyful ones, it is boring, nonsense.

At some point I see a squirrel, it is above me. I also see several birds.
The squirrel get so close to my face, I see him at some inches. We both look into the eyes and then he goes away after some minutes.

I've seen a squirrel for my first time some months ago, just to be clear.

The feeling I had when I saw that squirrel was like a family. He kind of accepted me, that's what I've got as a feeling.

It was like I was a part of a family for a seconds. It wasn't text or ideas. It was living beings.

I never had that. Not a family, neither living beings accepting me.

That's what I want. Of course, everyone would understand is not something that will be fixed any time soon, and it brings a * of a lot of pain.

I had a cry and then managed the flashback. People passed by and didn't notice me, thankfully.

Experience taught me it doesn't matter how cool or clever or firm or strong or sad or whatever I may look, I've never been part of any family, and never had that feeling I had when the squirrel looked at me.

I wrote this from my phone. Battery was dying too. Forgive me for typos and the quality of the post. I wanted to post this.

Out of this situation I've not managed to enjoy the time as I wished and planned, too.

I wanted to spend some time dedicated only to myself, for once. So this time I wanted to watch some anime or TV series.

Most of the sites are blocked by the library, but I hoped that at the least for anime there'd be some sites witch haven't been blocked, yet.

I couldn't as when I've got hold of the computer it was already late and I had to write like flash on OOTS (I felt I need and wanted to write here), then I didn't have time.

Even this post has been written in like the last 3 minutes, the computer even disconnected me for a minute. (The edit has been done onnmy phone in 2  minutes, 3 before the library closed).

What happen if someone highly abused does this test and receive a very low score?

Data (Facts):
Person: John
Affected by C-PTSD
Heavily abused (physically and emotionally), highly gas-lighted and also the FOO mirrored their behaviour onto him.
ACE score received: very low

I still believe is not a remote possibility, and if this would happen I'd imagine John would feel really bet, that's the reason I don't feel well about this test, but it may be just a fast judgment.

One of the worst aspect of C-PTSD I think is probably when someone is so abused in a way find it hard to validate and even relate with other survivors. If John would fit into this scenario too, then a low ACE score would be even worse.

I swear, in my life, I've seen people who I believe they had traumatic childhood and C-PTSD, and they just struggle to find any support, but the people who are close to them can potentially abuse and/or neglect them when they try to open up.
This is one of the things that makes my blood boil and I want to much to find a way to make it better in the future.
Edit: I'd imagine those persons could potentially get a low score, but it is just an intuition. Take it with a grain of salt, but please consider it. I appreciate the opinions of this community.

From my personal report:
2019/02/13 around 10:57 AM London time
The person I saw once with the laptop in the 8th computer area, likely because the other area was full.
I must not be interested in the reasons or intentions, but rather in the library rules as those can protect anyone's freedom to use the computer, as much as the library does the job properly.


Technically, a booked sessions works with 10 minutes waiting time available to log-in. When I reported the act to the librarian I was shy initially, the person pretended it was alright, then waited for the booking to expire. Unfortunately, it was just 5 minutes before the booking was going to expire.
To avoid any similar problem in the future, at the moment I think the best to point to be 2 minutes earlier than the booking start, so if any problem like this arise in the future, the librarian has enough time to handle it properly.
I have reason to believe the person may be abusive, and I suggest a firm solution.

The reason I use that computer is that is on the corner and I can have some privacy, depending if anyone is using the one close to it. The reason I need a computer is homelessness. The reason of homelessness are geographical, C-PTSD, past abuse, background and luck.
However, all this must makes literally 0 difference in the treatment received and perpetuated.

I've to add the booking system can have maximum 2 sessions booked in the future, including the current one no matter if logged in or not (a booked session would expire if not logged in 10 minutes after the booked time). A session generally our or less (it depends on opening/closing time and if there are other sessions booked).
I've add a booking at 10:47, and another one at 11:47. The one at 10:47 went lost as he managed to wait until the booked expired, then the 11:47 was left.

2019/02/13 around 11:53 AM London time
That person doesn't move, I go to the librarian, who checks the library booking system.
I then inform him the person he's still there, then the librarian goes and tells the person to move.
The person tells the librarian he needs the plug or something. Likely he wanted the private space.
However, that must not interest me.
Also, this is a library, and anyone has the right to use the space, that's why there's a booking system.
In is time frame it was me who booked it, then I had the right. If multiple people want to use the same area, then they've to organize and the booking system can allocate a time to each one, ideally, depending on the library.
The person eventually moves, but as soon as the librarian is away and he pass me while I'm coming to the computer, he says "*", I reply "you", and that's the end of it.
I don't know if that was the best reply, but something is sure, I was in one thread started by Blueberry, it is ALWAYS better to let it out than swallow it!
So good job here.
The incident is recorded to have a good history of the abuser.
Any further abuse must also be recorded.
Any single accident must be reported so that I can work well to protect I.C. and prevent any abusers from perpetrating their actions.

------------------------
I had planned to post this if required, and I thought it was after the last incident.

Thank you for reading.   

I'm a little scared of any kind of tests like this because no matter how good they can sound, who provide the data for the score is always the abused child.

The problem is, how good is the abused child at recognizing the abuse and providing that data? How much could a test help to recognize that?

Even of they'd use good questions, there is still things that one may not see in that current moment, the score wouldn't be accurate then.

I always had high scores in general, bit never felt they were a good way to classify things. In my experience, scores can also be used badly (I see this nowadays).

So, is this test really good for us?

I have not yet looked at it. It doesn't make me comfortable (perhaps as I 99℅ of times have been neglected, generally, to the point when I can so easily be triggered).

I arrived to the library around 5 PM and it was quite quiet. I've now established new tactics and strategies for managing flashback and even if they aren't easy to practice, they're meant to work better than difficult situation in libraries and similar places (PS: I now handle flashbacks surrounded by nature, unless too extreme weather or too much rain)


When I arrived the library was quiet and I wanted to post on OOTS.
Unfortunately though, after  just 10 minutes someone came to sit next to me. A smelly person arrived.


However, it is hilarious that someone can smell more than a homeless. It ticks me off a little.
His phone is in vibration and disturb me. (It ticks me even more).
It is quite triggering to write this close to him, but I felt I wanted to let it off my chest.


I wanted to post on OOTS but like this is nearly impossible, quite the pain in the ...

That's one of the reason housing first philosophies are meant to work, I guess. (Everyone need personal/private space and proper privacy).

Hi and a warm welcome to OOTS Chronosbane     Unfortunately many of us know the boulder thing all too well    Dealing with trauma just takes an enormous amount of energy and layer on top of the demands of daily life and we are just a tired out group of people.

I've found that carving out time to rest/relax/recharge is an absolute must for me. It sounds like you are really busy but could you make an appointment with yourself once a day for something that is just for you, whatever that may be? In my case I had to work at doing this at first because I was so used to doing, doing, doing and I felt I was being selfish or weak, but it's habit now and it really has helped me to shrink the boulder.

Very good point. If I can add something useful to it is to be careful regarding the fun: it have to doesn't become about doing & doing, as that can happen as well.
I'd suggest never beat yourself up if you can't have fun enough, and get the appointment and enjoy the time, if it goes well or not, that doesn't have to be the focus. Soothe oriented rather than productivity oriented (easier said that done, but you know, practice).

There isn't any specific trigger

Triggers aren't easy to see, even looks can do that (I've read about that recently on Walker's book, chapter 8 under the 13 steps).

I guess I just wanted to talk to a new outlet and hear somebody remind me that I'm normal and the world isn't about to collapse upon me.

The only thing that isn't normal is what we have lived, and it is very good if we get angry about it. There will be hard times but you know, if you look what you've already lived, you are here, that's a lot already. 


Welcome aboard.  I hope you have a good time here and I wish you'll find this place cozy and welcoming whenever you need. 

Excuses me but now I'm very angry.
It is like a computer after a while shows a blue screen "Error XYZ Too much pain to handle, unknown specific causes". (Or triggers)
If I can make the situation sounds better I need to eat and I'm off to the lake where I am used to eat sandwiches.

You've to see my muscles, much stronger than when I was "eating" with my parents! (Seriously I have iron in the legs now) And less fat then when some folks decided I was crazy. Basically I'm proud of myself for the strength in providing food now and the freedom in eating like I do now).  Still, I feel bad when I eat on the lake because I eat "cheaply" and bad when I eat on a place full of spiceheads (as they're known) because I eat "fancy" (lol). But, here I am, that's good.
I very much appreciate your support, if you wish, please don't judge me too fast, that's all I ask.

I wasn't sure tbh if deleting this last post/reply or posting it but, well, feedback is appreciated and next time I'll know better if type or not type on some moments.

As a survivor one of my quality I had to develop is to enjoy the small things,  as good things aren't many, but there are a few.

I know a cafe, it is expensive for me, but I like it there. I started to plan to spend the Sunday morning there.

Unfortunately, Saturday I sleep in a place that is very difficult for me. It is difficult to get out in a good shape.
I can't explain much more of it at the moment.

But what I want to say is that I tried so much hard with all my might this week. Good plans and strategy, it took me a lot to develop it.
Unfortunately, one of the homeless steals my sport direct bag. (Empty, most of the valuables as already been   stolen, I had the clothes drying on chairs).
I had another one repaired with duct tape and needed the other one also.

I've reason to believe now it make me live those moments when my mom touched all my stuff without ever asking, and moved things in my room always as she wanted, even she knew soon I was developing a trauma where I at some point, I had to have all the things in a specific place. That went better by time but my mom.worked hard to make it worse every day.

Crossing personal boundaries without caring of the person at all, like if it is not a human but a object is a trigger.
A homeless stealing from a homeless also is. Many aggressive ones just will discriminate on the one who are different, less aggressive, or SEEMS doing better.

I believe it is just the traumatized one who are turning slowly into abusers. I am chosing the other journey, even it is hard.

That and the fact nobody woke me up today and I had 20 minutes to get ready while the persons cleaning were already cleaning in front of me (long story, but I had been sleeping on a strategic corner to have 15 minutes before someone was sweeping in front of me and touching my stuff, witch is traumatic for me).

Eventually I managed to get out and as I hoped, I also used the toilet (I generally don't make it in time and there's no restrooms available after I leave the shelter).

Unfortunately though, the things were highly triggering. I also had a bag repaired with duct tape. A sleeping bag witch I couldn't get too much wet and well, a bag that could break. Not much space for the bread I had to buy for lunch. I had arrived late at the cafe and my preferite spot is taken.
It is one of the little joy I wanted to have.

At lunch time I managed to get that spot but one gentlemen ask.me if I want to.order something, I can't afford it, paid an expensive espresso already.

I'm not taking much space but it tells me those sofas, he can fit lot of people and if I can move. I understand and move (and think I had to arrive early as I planned when is quiet).

I had to manage a bad flashback before in front of many people, it wasn't easy.

I cannot go into details but if I'd add more this post would make more sense than what it does now.
For.example, I am not sleeping in a shelter but a specific project with specific rules and limits, and that's the only thing available at the moment (or something worse full of drugs and blood everywhere, or the streets). That doesn't mean I dont nave plans, but thigs are never ad easy ad they seems.

I fear to be judged as if someone doesn't know my situation fully, some things don't make much sense. For example why is a coffee expensive? Because at the moment I have a sick note that states I can't work, I plan to work, I sell the big issue witch is triggering and difficult and that is my only income literally. There are always reasons behind the situation of a survivor, in my opinion (not like their bad action are justified, not like that, but like what they feel make sense).

I wrote this on mobile with limited time, please excuse the quality of the post.

PS: this was an extremely difficult bad day, but I eventually managed, so this is the right section, for today at the least. I hope to start a journal, that's a short term goal, but not yet possible. This is also something to get things off my chest. A small part at the least.

Edit: enjoy the little things, I say because in the cafe I enjoyed half an hour, when I also could manage to read posts here, after I handled the flashback. Basically it was half an hour on an entire morning and also while I was hungry, but still, it was a nice day overall. Anger for how it went after my efforts, and next week I plan to make some things clear and ask to be sure I wake up, so I can be sure nobody leave earlier with my property. Sunday is also very important to me. Last time in this cafe I managed to play Pokemon.