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Messages - dreamriver

#1
NSC - Negative Self-Concept / Re: What is love?!
March 19, 2021, 02:09:13 PM
Quote from: Jazzy on March 19, 2021, 04:14:43 AM
If I actually try to talk about it vocally with someone though, that's much more difficult. It's almost impossible for me to say "I love you". There's just been so much hurt and pain and damage that's gone along with hearing "I love you"

The warm hug is welcome Jazzy  :hug:

I had this realization these last couple years too. Save with my spouse it's been hard to say "I love you" to anyone else because I associate love with doubt, distrust, and pain, and wondering whether I really love the person (especially being forced to say it to older siblings who were abusive, bullies, or personality disordered). I will still say it back to a friend if they say it to me but it feels awkward and forced. Even if I do really love and appreciate them! I wonder if anyone else deals with this!

Then I also realized, I didn't hear much "I love yous" growing up, and when they were uttered it's like they were fake or had no meaning. I didn't feel loved or safe so how could that sentence be associated with safety? Every time "I love you" comes out of my mouth I say to myself "I should only say it if I mean it!" when I say it back too hastily, and have never wondered much why I think that way.

I remember the last year or so that I still had contact with my malignant narcissist sister, I would say "I love you" and it was like she had to squeeze it out if herself to say it back to me. And then at the very end before no contact, she wouldn't say it back to me at all.

You're fair and OK if you don't want to say it, or say it really only when you feel it. It's only fair you protect yourself and you protect the love you do give, because it is precious.

#2
NSC - Negative Self-Concept / Re: What is love?!
March 18, 2021, 09:52:46 PM
I LOVE this Jazzy, I'm on a similar road myself.

Thank you!!!!
#3
Thank you for your words Pioneer, you are definitely not alone dealing with this! Here's a hug if you need one :hug: I really so understand how it feels, it can get you all twisted up inside.

On the one hand my CPTSD makes me feel like I HAVE to "act out" against behaviors/mannerisms that echo what I was powerless against as a kid, in order to feel safe- it's like a release or a catharsis. It's a hard balance to find between doing that in a healthy way and when I go too far and really just sabotaged everything (I've done that many times)...but then what if I didn't go far enough, in reality? Am I being taken advantage of still in some way I don't know? It's hard to modulate.

Things have gotten much better for me recently too but boy was it dark a few weeks back. Some aspects of my husband's personality can really trigger me, and put me in fight (arguing the topic to pieces) or flight (thinking I need to leave our life and our marriage). He was really down and nothing seemed to console him, and I was already in the pits too - nothing I did helped and it freaked me out, and then that triggered me into thinking that he was using me only as a crutch or a prop, just like my family did when I was a kid.

But then things always smooth over. In the moment I have very little hope they will, it's like I'm holding onto the reality that things will get better by only a thread in a flashback ... Barely.

My only consolation is that when I'm out of the flashback me and my husband try to do a lot of affirming things together. Like a cut was opened, and we're actively putting salve on it. We both have childhood trauma wounds and I think it's inevitable that we reopen them from time to time. As long as we always have a way to fix things up that's the only hope I have. The dark moments sure are really scary and convincing enough to believe though....
#4
Agree 100% Blueberry that these enablers should be put in the narc category. And yes...I think they know very well that they throw people under the bus, but dissociate from it with a mixture of cowardice or simply caring about themselves more, and/or and doing whatever backflips they can in their head to justify that the scapegoat role is needed and that whoever fills the role deserves it....A type of narcissism all its own.
#5
I would take and accept the money, spend it if you need, but don't let anyone in your family that sent it to you know that you did. If they ask, you can say there is a stack of mail you haven't opened yet but will get to it. Or, don't even answer the question, keep avoiding the question if you have to. If you get cornered say you never received it, that it must have gotten lost in the mail. Stick to your story.

I honestly feel with PDs that any of the ends justify the means of keeping peace in your life, even with little white lies (they like to lie or twist the truth, at least my FOO do, so sometimes you got to fight fire with fire to just cut off their fix and move on with your life). If you spend the money and don't do anything in return for them they can use it to prove to themselves and others how ungrateful you are in their fantasy false reality. On the other hand, I think if they found out you gave the money away, that may fuel them too. Anything that triggers them, good or negative, gives them their fix. So just tell them you didn't get anything. And they'll realize they can't get their fix off of you.

I totally agree with your DH that your NPs probably got their adrenaline rush from sending the money already. The next rush they want is hearing about how you reacted to getting it, how you spent it, how much you needed it, anything that shows that that money affected you and proof that they have some influence over your life still. If time shows that it does nothing to you, you never received it, it doesn't affect you at all, then it will eventually signal to them that they can't get to you or control you in any way any longer. And then they will give up.

And no I don't think you need to take responsibility for their feelings, not at all. That's exactly what they want and exactly what they try to get others to do so they don't have to face themselves or reality.
#6
Quote from: rainydiary on February 19, 2021, 02:23:11 AM
Dreamriver, your experience resonates with me especially with having a partner that doesn't quite understand.  As I gain experience with managing my CPTSD and peel back the layers of my experience, my triggers often "surprise" me.  A tone of voice, a person's body posture, words spoken by another, dynamics I find myself caught up in can all lead to feeling stuck. 

I find it so difficult to feel validated in my experience by others in my life.  I find that I have different people that validate different parts of my experience at different times.  Yet it is still very difficult for me that the person I chose to marry struggles so much to "get me."  Without him I couldn't have gotten the place I am today...but now I need different types of support that I don't always know how to get especially right now.

Thank you Rainy Diary! I appreciate that you relate to what I said... And thanks for sharing. This makes me feel a lot less alone.

Do you find it helps to figure out what you're flashing back to? Or does it not help? Do you have a good way of communicating to your partner what you're experiencing and they get it? I struggle with all these things immensely. I feel dumb saying "I'm having a flashback" because it feels like I'm lying. I might be having a flashback and still be functional doing dishes or something, like it's not something bad enough to bring up or complain about because I can still do things...(flashbacks dont always put me to bed ...)

I have learned a lot about what could trigger me, but don't always feel like the awareness of that necessarily helps. I can be aware but still feel like I need someone/something regardless to make up for the feeling of abandonment and family rejection that wells up in me.

Yes the validation part is so hard. They don't get it and the little things can be triggering and interpreted all too easily as rejection.

I'm sorry you're going through the same thing. I really relate to what you said about getting different needs from different people, that's such a hard thing to compensate for right now with covid. We feel compelled to rely on our partners for everything. Me and my husband are definitely fraying at each other....and all this while realizing we're kind of codependent and trying to put an end to that!
#7
Thanks you two. I think I struggle with denial and maybe some dissociation, you know saying "no I don't think this is a flashback!" When it actually is.

Very hard to navigate alone...partner doesn't quite understand/absorb...which is hard when that inner child really badly wants someone to come in, protect you, and pull you out of it. Ugh!
#8
SOT - Sense of Threat / Re: Feeling on edge
February 19, 2021, 12:35:52 AM
Gromit I definitely relate to this. For some reason if my DH is upset I assume it's because I did something wrong! Even if it's obvious that I didn't.

Triggering for sure! I feel for you. In my home growing up, conflict was stifled, the only time there was anger or frustrated emotion it was directed at one of us kids...

I hope you feel better  :hug:
#9
I've been doing so well for months with flashbacks. Especially making some big changes in my life, which have greatly lowered my anxiety levels/adrenaline at a base level.

A couple triggers have hit me these past couple weeks and now I realize I've been in a flashback this whole time, especially whilst more closely gauging my mood and perception - and a stealthy inner child who has thrown me off! I.e. suddenly my partner seems unsafe and I need to leave because of things he said in a mood but then apologized for (and my go-to CPTSD coping urge is leaving, which I did with my family as a teen and it was a very effective survival tactic....some part of me goes back to it again and again.)

But in the meantime I'm hurting him by completely overlooking and discounting the really good and safety-building things he does, and then I'm scared of abandonment from my being too much for him. He is trying to have my back in some ways but he's not good at it, and I wonder if I'm just punishing him needlessly.

"People perfectionism" runs amok in my flashbacks... triggers or unsafe behavior can make me feel entirely different about even the closest of friends. I hate this. Yesterday, a close friend of mine for years posted something triggering and it made me completely spin out and get emotional and tearful and feel completely different about him, and in a way that completely eclipsed the mutual understanding we should have for others and where they are at in life (and in their own relationships with others).

It's really hard navigating flashbacks when these experiences have felt like they've been a part of my personality all my life. I'm so used to them. When the feelings set in they're so sneaky. It's difficult to think of as this "separate" brain process that is high jacking things and not part of my personality, and to catch it. It's also really, really hard to realize these low points are *not* reality.

It's hard to tell my partner that I think I'm having a flashback because I'm not a war veteran.

It's hard to tell myself yes, this is a flashback, when I'm not in some catatonic or fugue state and work on getting back to reality again.

Then it feels like I'm just built to sabotage relationships.  :'(

Can anyone relate? Catching and accepting flashbacks before they get destructive is so hard....
#10
-Have you chosen to go low- or no- contact (i.e., LC or NC)?

I have for now decided to go NC with all family. My younger sibling, mother, and older sibling. However, I try not put labels on it. The idea that they're just gone forever and nothing will be resolved is quite scary feeling. That said, their NC is sort of self imposed as they don't really want to address issues, they would rather gaslight them out of existence.


-What is the thing about your parent's past and/or...


Gaslight and rug-sweeping by all of them (not just mother. My father I've been NC with 20 years after their divorce). Emotional abuse and scapegoating. Standing by, accepting, and enabling the behavior of my older sibling who is malignant narcissist/psychopathic. Not willing to even consider i experienced PA/SA as a child from father, abuse from older siblings. Lying to me and trying to change my childhood memories, say certain things never happened or happened differently. Trying to paint me as the real "new" abuser in the family. Older sib is expected to be taken care of unconditionally by everyone in the fam while having free reign to say, do, treat anyone terribly and have complete control over everyones tastes and opinions. I became the target of all her rage for not staying in line and could not be that in the family dynamic any longer.

-Do you think your parent understands what the problem is? Have you articulated it to them...

My mother, I think she does deep down but knows facing it would shatter her reality and facade to bits. And it doesn't matter anyway, she cares more about the golden child psychopath sib and her image - just shows how little she's been interested in mothering me or protecting me anyway. Why keep convincing myself, or her? I articulated everything to her in a message telling her there would be no relationship until the issue was addressed. She gaslit and lied to me in her response, saying she didn't think anything wrong was happening with my older sibs treatment and that certain things never happened, and that it was more appalling I would even *think* they were possible! It was her way of trying to put the the ball back into my court - unfortunately in my last message I said "if you defend or deny sib's horrendous behavior I will have no choice but to cut off contact" and she did both those things. She knew the outcome so I don't think an authentic relationship with me was ever valuable to her, except to make her, psycho sib, and the whole family look good.


-Is there something you want from your parent that you think could help you heal? If so, what is it, and how much would it help?


Yes but I don't think I can live my life hoping it will ever happen, especially in this situation with older sib. It's a fantasy. She made her choice about which sib relationship is more valuable to her and I need to accept that. It would be a 180 degree change from her very nature. It would involve standing up for me against other sibling(s), apologizing for lying, apologizing to my partner, and saying she would like to rebuild trust. The other alternative would be to completely leave me alone, forever, and never contact me if those things above aren't possible (this is the more realistic way things will probably go, she is and expert at silent treatment) and I could live in peace as if she never existed. She isn't a mother and has never been a mother to me, I'm learning to accept, and is quite harmful, so her relationship in my life makes no sense anymore if it is not good.

-If you're LC/NC, do you think there's anything your parent could do to make you agree to more contact, and what is it?

The stuff I described above. But it's a long shot, admitting she does things wrong is not who she is.

-Is there anything about your dealings to date with your parent that you regret? Anything you'd do differently if you could? How?


My cutting off of contact was pretty abrupt, explosive and emotional (family behavior was starting to target my partner and that was the last straw). I think it could have been interesting to go LC maybe, and grey rock/medium chill to get some more interesting insights or to phase out slower in a way that was maybe less intense for them.  But that would have been the more comfortable option for them not me. Being around them and dealing with them was so painful at that point with the wool pulled off my eyes, that I wouldn't have been as healthy as I am now with absolutely no contact...7 months later a healing has begun I never thought possible, and it was for the best. Really, not too many regrets with that specifically, it's a messy situation and I acted messy sometimes but I don't blame myself anymore.

Like other posters here I also regret having ever trusted any of them (sibs, M, all of them) with my love, my pain, my secrets, trying to be a "best friend" to each of them when I think I was just really being their enmeshed caretakers. And any info about me, or my low periods, were used to elevate themselves, not to build me up. I regret not leaving my home sooner as a kid. I regret accepting them back into my life as a teenager that left home before college and getting close with them again after college. I actually regret being there for them in any way, when it came to be my time they were awful. I regret not learning to be closer to people outside my family earlier, which was stunted and beaten out of me by them I guess anyway (always felt/taught that because of fams abusive past with my father we all need to stick together and nobody would get that). Thank God I did get out to an extent and tapped into a whole other circle of friends and people they have little influence or access to without seeming crazy, and I can build a FOC. But I don't blame myself. I was conditioned to think that all of this was love and I didn't know any better.
#11
Symptoms - Other / Re: Change in vision perceptions
January 08, 2021, 01:06:56 AM
When I was hitting my teenage years I remember noticing that my vision seemed to change.

It was almost like fisheye but less dramatic. It seems normal now and haven't thought about it in years, but it seemed like before I could see things clearer on my periphery, and then over time they were more blurry. Things were only clear right around where I was focusing. I forgot about this and got used to it. I assume my vision is still like that now.

Is this maybe some kind of tunnel vision, due to trauma?!? Does this sound like tunnel vision? Because I don't know!

Haven't had your experiences exactly but can relate...seeing yourself as separate from your body definitely sounds like some kind of dissociation.
#12
Other / Re: a myriad of unexplained physical symptoms
January 05, 2021, 08:45:09 PM
Hi Rogue84 - sorry I'm so late to the game, but I wanted to let you know I'm kind of going through your exact same process.

I started getting chronic migraines a little while ago after deciding to go no contact with my family. They'd last 3-4 days and happen every month (around mens.) It feels like my body is unpacking a ton of stuff, and it can be kind of scary. I keep getting worried that I should get screenings and such (or even that it is COVID!), but I remember and realize that this is probably somatization. I wish so much that modern medicine had a better way to deal with this!

I also get neck, shoulder, face, jaw, and chest pain too, from muscle tightness. *Trigger Warning* I also have pain during sex and sometimes feel sick afterward, unable to arouse/climax at all. It is so frustrating.

My heart was also randomly skipping beats a while ago! And tons of fatigue that just felt like a slog to get through.

I also had a small lump in my neck from a lymph node, but then it went away.

Just want you to know someone else is going through it too. In fact reading your message was so validating. I hate that you're going through the same thing as me, but your words of hope in your own situation remind me to continue to have hope in my own: that this is a process of purging and grieving, eventually (hopefully) it will get better soon!

I relate. If you need someone to talk to about this confusing process I'm here. I'm just as confused too  :bawl:
#13
Hi suffersilence - yes. As a child I would be on my own/alone a lot and as a teenager I moved out of my family's house to be on my own. It wasn't until the past couple years and CPTSD recovery that I realized I was trying to get away from my family subconsciously, constantly trying to be out of that house.

I just thought I was being angsty. Well, that's what they chocked it up to and I believed them at the time. I was invisible and fairly neglected and was kind of surprised they were so upset when I left. I thought, I didn't even really matter that much when I was around? It was just control.

I came back around to be more connected with family sometime after college. Things were totally OK for 4-5 years maybe. I wasn't ever LC or NC at any point but this past year things got so bad I went very, very, very, very low contact. I have long lived way far away from family because I've never been at the center of things, and the same thing sort of happened again: I moved even further away (moving out all over again). They got upset about that and that's the source of things getting very bad....again I was shocked they'd even care, and that's when I started to see the pattern of control, rather than love. And I realize I've always tried to keep distance from them for good reason, even if I wasn't aware of it.
#14
Thank you all for your responses :grouphug: they are really comforting.

Kizzie, thank you for reminding me of that. I forget sometimes. My inner critic finds ways around it. But yes, the evidence is in the symptoms and pain we feel. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, it feels like a true definition of * sometimes. So why would I *want* to feel this pain, and invent some scenario in my mind, just because I needed validation? I'm not getting the validation anyway. I could just drop it if that were true. Find an easier way to go about it. Pain is pain. The voice inside me telling me that it's all made up and not real is not my own, anyway (it's my M's and sister's voices.) My IC is SO good at what it does....

Bella and Blueberry - I experienced some CSA and PA but by far the EA has been the worst. There are some huge mysteries to the more physical aspects of my abuse but it's almost like they're not even that huge on my mind compared to the EA/neglect, which I flash back to the most often. It's like the CSA/PA is physical torture in a prison but the EA is the actual bars that don't allow you to leave.

Quote from: Blueberry on December 13, 2020, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: dreamriver on December 10, 2020, 10:59:03 PM
My brother was also more popular than I in school. I found a newspaper in these things that was supposed to show my athletic accomplishments, but they mixed up my name with his, probably because I was totally invisible. His name was there instead of mine.
I'm so sorry about that! It must have really hurt :hug: :hug:

I left the newspaper out of my stuff and burned it to start my woodfire yesterday  ;) it felt good.
#15
Quote from: Dark.art.girl on December 11, 2020, 06:54:44 AM
I might be a little late to this party too, but I wanted to say that I related so much to multiple aspects of this post.
Emotional abuse is absolutely horrible. It's so sad that we have to dig things up to remind ourselves of what it was really like. I do the exact same thing. Like at one point the reality of it all just sprouted rainbows and unicorns?

And one of the weirdest parts of CPTSD that I've been trying to figure out, and I'm SO glad you mentioned this, is the somatic response from triggers!! I mean it's like, half the time we don't even know what's going on and our body is just reacting. Thank you so much for sharing this, because you're not alone in these feelings or experiences.

Thank you so much Dark.art.girl.

And that's the crazy thing: I wasn't even searching for clues consciously. But some part of me was? Suddenly I was just feeling disappointment. Then disgust with myself, without even really knowing why.

I didn't even want to feel sick. I didn't even want to feel bad. Who does? The craziest part though was some part of me looking at myself and saying "you're doing this for attention, because you're just lying about everything." I can't believe I'd feel that way about feeling like this, without anyone even around to get attention from. I'm noticing that inner critic more lately.

Through EA our minds became prisons that our bodies/other parts of us are trying to break free of. It's like an invisible electric fence but the electricity was turned off long ago. The fear barrier is still there ...

Edit: Also, I see that you're new Dark.art.girl. Welcome to the forum!